Great Western Coffee Shop

I live in the West Country but have used the Thames Valley locals a few times, does anyone else think that having or adding more onboard staff to the local stoppers between Paddington and Didcot should be required in the new franchise? 

The main reason I ask is because when I travlled between Reading and Didcot I felt perfectly comfortable, but closer to London I found the busy service with no other staff but the driver very daunting.  If any kind of emergency or problem where to occur, how do you grab the attention of the driver when his main and top priority is driving the train?   Whilst this may increase ticket prices by a small amount to cover the cost of extra staff I think a lot of passengers would find a benefit!

It also seems crazy that railway regulation mean that Intercity services require two staff at all times, yet local services with the same amount of carriages only require the driver.

I hate the idea of DOO in the future operating virtually everywhere, not only the fact that it will leave people jobless but the safety element is not very customer friendly. Most people use TV services for short trips but I would rather a ticket examiner be present for the safety and revenue areas of the trip. It also concerns me the amount of pressure put on the driver at unstaffed stations or where manual dispatch is the norm.

SWR have guards / train managers. I feel safe on those. I do NOT feel safe on driver only Thameslink services. Neither do I feel safe on TfL nor Heathrow Connect nor GWR locals to / from Paddington.

Re: GWR locals I feel especially threatened when the 'tissue sellers' or beggars are on board harassing pax. for donations. I always say 'no' and opine that they are on benefits anyway so why are they begging on the trains? The women always have there fellas with them (armed with knives?), and these can be very threatening.

Then there is the endemic issue of scum without tickets, and those with their feet up on the seats.

SWR sometimes makes announcements about not putting feet on the seats. Good for them.

But - do bear in mind that staff cost!

I can understand concerns at travelling late at night without a guard/passenger, but do bear in mind that trains now have CCTV. I have recently been to Vancouver, where the Sky Train Metro system runs with entirely unmanned trains - and it seemed to work well, without the toy train feel of the DLR.  The inner Thames Valley services will soon be largely Elizabeth Line/Crossrail, with wide corridor connections like the new District Circle line trains so much better visibility too.

If all trains in the inner Thames Valley had to run with extra staff the cost would be considerable - 7 to 11 trains an hour for much of the day, trains running through most hours (presumably meaning a three shift a day roster) means a lot of staff, when the railways clearly have problems recruiting sufficient staff.

There are ways of summoning help - it's a shame we have the patronising "see it, say it, sorted" campaign, instead of clear stickers on windows or seatbacks with the phone and text numbers. The signs about the CCTV are hardly conspicuous, and if they were they must surely discourage anti-social behaviour. It might be better and more cost effective if we had some security staff who get on and off trains during the day and are ready to respond when calls or texts are made,rather than insisting on a train manager on each train.

When Heathrow Connect started incessant announcements were made in an aggressive tone regarding non-payment of fares, and CTV monitoring. And there were regular ticket checks. But even then scum put their feet up on the seats because no-one stopped them.

Then one day there was a knife attack on a member of staff - so much for CCTV.

And now there are no ticket checks, no extra staff, there is endemic non-payment of fares between minor stations, and scum still put their feet up on the now thread bare seats.

I use these services on a daily basis and to be honest I cannot remember the last time I saw a beggar/"tissue seller" on board, I think perhaps you're getting a bit carried away on that one - agreed re: non paying customers (I hesitate before using words like "scum") but even if there were an extra member of staff on board, services are frequently so overcrowded past Southall (heading into London) that they wouldn't be able to move through the train anyway.


There's nothing to stop the likes of me and you asking people to take their feet/bags etc off seats, I do sometimes, if you ask politely they most often will and are embarrassed at getting called out, there will always be some who will tell you to Foxtrot Oscar but they would do the same if it was a GWR bod in a hat.

Last year I was at Paddington. There was a bearded and berobed gentleman - IYKWIM - lurking around platform 12, mumbling to himself and pacing up and down. I informed the gateline staff member there who 1/ showed complete disinterest, 2/ was more interested in whatever was on his smart phone screen, 3/ basically totally ignored me, and 4/ when I persisted in voicing my concerns condescendingly looked in my direction, gave me a withering look, and went back to the smart phone.

Said bearded and berobed gentleman persisted in his unusual behaviour.

I then went to the station manager's office by platform 1. The attitude there was something like 'not our problem' try Network Rail.

Its the same arrogance and can't be ar$ed attitude I get from the BTP and NR staff when I complain about smokers on the 'wrong' side of Station Approach from Praed Street. I get the response 'we'll have a word.' But then said member of staff walks off in the opposite direction.

And as for endemic tissue sellers they ARE condoned by GWR - because any reports about them on trains are routinely ignored.

I see little benefit in adding more railway staff since their powers are very limited and they have a tendency to hide when most needed.

A better idea IMHO would be to have police officers, or at least PCSOs on board. Not on every train but on a significant number. Concentrate on services known to be problematic.

......................was it Santa Claus? Could possibly have lost his reindeer and the mumbling was him trying to remember their names?

We could call them the 'British Transport Police' and they could protect the passengers, assets and revenue of the Train Operating Companies.

Just below 'ticketless travel', I would address 'feet on seats'. Threat of a collar-feeling might change people's life choices.

Does everything on this forum have to end up with stupid childish sarky comments?

CCTV doesn't stop anything nor does it prevent it. What's needed is a mix of both onboard staff and BTP, I personally would rather pay an extra quid or two on my return ticket if it meant having staff on board rather than no staff and potential hazards.

People seem to forget that not only do they check tickets, but they also are required for safety measures such as on train evacuation, medical assistance.  Currently on DOO, the driver would have to stop, deal with the emergency then either move the train to a station or get emergency staff near to the train, with a guard onboard the train could continue to a station and have the services hopefully at the station or a few minutes away.  In relation to power failures what is to stop passengers opening the doors and leaving the train of their own will, nothing. If there was a fire, how many would know what to do or follow instructions, how can the driver on his own evacuate an 8 coach Electrostar if the fire was in the middle?

I know some services already have extra staff onboard so what is to stop them expanding it to all or most services.

(Look away devonexpress. You might consider this reply to CJB666 as sarcastic and childish ::))

I have an idea what you might mean, but could you expand further so we don't have to assume.

Was he one of following uttering prayers? A Buddhist monk? Perhaps a Sikh Granthi? A Haredi Jew? Maybe it was The Right Reverend and Right Honourable The Lord Williams of Oystermouth, former Archbishop of Canterbury.

They all can be, or are, bearded and berobed.

As for DOO. Its been with us for over 30 years. The perceived less safe environment is not borne out by statistics.

I 'ad that Rowan Williams in the back of my congregation once.

No, really, I did. It was Christmas Eve at our little parish church; he had a holiday home in Charlbury. Nothing focuses the mind more on playing the right notes for 'O come all ye faithful' than the Archbishop of Canterbury sitting in the front row.

I have specifically asked you more than once to stop harassing me, yet you continue to do so, to the point of stalking now!

What a ridiculous comment. We have debates in this Forum, occasionally vigorous debates, myself & BNM have had a few between us but I'd never accuse him of something like that, I take it in the spirit and context it's intended.

If you comment on something in a Forum, you're responding to someone else & inviting a response in turn.That response might not necessarily agree with your own point of view.....it would be a rather boring World if it always did?

I think you ought to withdraw your last comment with all that it implies.

That's nothing TG. You should see the name calling and questioning of my manhood that devonexpress wrote in a PM to me. Hilarious.  ;D

Oh dear bit of a problem here that needn’t be. This is a friendly forum where we all get on even when we don’t always agree with each other.

devonexpress, bignosemac has been a part of this forum for many years, some as a moderator, so is well known to many. He has his viewpoints, sense of humour and is knowledgeable. Just what we want to see here.

Please try not to be offended when being a part of a forum and don’t take everything that gets written personally. Believe me this is a friendly place compared to some forums out there.

I don’t know the contents of PMs between the two of you. Please sort it out between yourselves and start again. Thanks.

I also disagree with many points which people make in this forum, however I do not see the need for an argument to get to such extent that name calling is happening and an argument occurs every post. I joined this forum as it came across more friendly and a “community spirit” as such appealed over other forums based on more facts.

Let me get this blinking well clear, I did not say anything about his manhood, I said he was a bully, and a spoilt brat. I don't give a damn how long he's been on the forum, hes rude, arrogant and insulting.  He accused me of being disabled following a typo error, and then turned it around on me when I questioned him on it.   Im not the first one he's done it too i've had several people privately message me about him and his attitude, some have permanently left the forum purely because of him.   I've been a member of this form myself for 2 year with 0 trouble.   But let me get this clear If he messages me, replies to any post of mine on this forum again, I will be have no choice but to walk.    I've already told him of my circumstances in relation to a bereavement, he had show 0 sympathy or compassion and continues to bully me!!!!!

Totally with you on that, CharlieGCR.

A new day has started ... let's see if we can spend it without anyone lowering themselves to personal attacks.


That is exactly the intent - and it's heartbreaking for the admin and moderator team when it doesn't work out. And frustrating when members concerned don't accept the requests to "please move on".

A new day - a new leaf, please. 

I can't move on while the misinformation in post #18 is allowed to stand unchallenged.

No accusations of being disabled have been made to anyone. Where exactly did I make such an accusation? I asked by PM (in reply to an intemperate message) if the typos were a result of disability. If they were I said I'd consider an apology. Look at the context in which I highlighted the typos though. Following a post where those in disagreement with devonexpress were labelled "uneducated". I found the pretence amusing. devonexpress attributed the typos to tiredness. Not yet a disability as far as I'm aware.

Questioning the size of one's testicles ("grow a pair" as written in the PM) - part of one's manhood surely?

The name calling has now occurred in public. In private I was happy to laugh it off. I won't stand for it in public. As such abuse is now public I'm left with no choice but to forward the PM to the admins.

Unsure about the 'bereavement' comment. It was mentioned in passing. General sympathies to anyone who has lost a close relative in recent months. Can't really offer more to someone I know nothing about. No mention of it in the PM or my reply.

Robust, forthright debate with a difference of opinion on a range of points. Cut and thrust. Good clean fun. If that's bullying, harassment and being a spoilt brat with no testicles then heaven help us. If its a little too much cut and thrust for your tastes then report it. Don't resort to name calling and baseless accusations.


Oh dear. I think I've replied...

It was probably too much for me to ask.

I thank you for the copies of the a personal message or two showing the flavour of what's been going on and has spilled out into public.

I'm reminded of the saying "It takes two to tango" although the two are not necessarily equal partners in the dance, and indeed the first can be proactive against a resisting and unfaultable second.

I wake this morning to ask myself the question "what am I supposed to do".  But perhaps the question has been answered for me already.


Always sad to see a member leave. As put that has a finality, and is a decision that devonexpress is perfectly able to make outwith any inputs from elsewhere.  I hate the finality; we all say things and make decisions - especially at times of tension.  So I am locking the account for a period for everyone to reflect on.

---

I don't know what I'm going to do further - what's in place may be interim and no criticism or judgement of any party should be read from it.   It gives me and the moderator team time to think on  a permanent route forward.  I am now - headed to write what I'll be saying at today's event (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20227) - to be long remembered after the name calling that's been going on has been forgotten.

As a frequent user of the Reading-Didcot stopping services in both directions, I seldom see any on-board staff in addition to the driver. Ironically on several occasions I've seen one coming towards me when I'm positioned by the door as the train is slowing down for Tilehurst and panicked just a little as I've tried to remember where my ticket is - and hoped that I'm not going to be asked for my Senior Railcard, which is usually buried at the bottom of a small bag in a wallet with other cards.

About 30 months ago, I WAS asked for the Railcard, which turned out to be 12 days out of date. (I'm told that on the on-line application form one can tick a box asking to be reminded just before it expires, which I can't have done.) The guard was courteous and merely charged me the balance of an off-peak fare between Tilehurst and Goring. Just as well for him: four months later he was trapped inside a first-class compartment, being unable to get the doors to open; he signalled to me, and I managed to open them.

I can recall few problems during the day, though then the trains - especially those of eight carriages - can have only a few passengers scattered around so one can feel isolated. Once I saw a guard ask a yoof to take his feet off the seat, which he was reluctant to do and had to be asked again - a couple of us congratulated the guard. And a few years ago three yoofs were smoking when the guard came along and asked for tickets; they didn't have any but paid up. But he said nothing about the smoking, though his pink face and strained expression suggested he didn't like it.

Marlburian

I am thoroughly disappointed that this thread, which started with a reasonable question, has descended into something comparable with national political discourse.

I would like to draw attention (again) to the incident at North Pole
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=22532.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=22532.0)

and particularly the RAIB remark:

Tomorrow a friend is coming off-peak from St Albans to visit me in Tilehurst. I was quite impressed to see that by catching certain trains from Paddington she can be at Tilehurst Station in 37 minutes, with a reasonable seven minutes to change at Reading. It remains to be seen whether we shall have more slightly fraught occasions, as in the past, when the Paddington train hesitates as it approaches Reading, and whether there will be slight delays in the Tilehurst train leaving, so a freight train can have precedence. This last has sometimes worked in our favour when, in theory, friends have only a couple of minutes to change at Reading.

(My advice has always been to take the first fast train from Paddington and get to Reading, where nowadays there are sufficient shops and clean toilets where one can kill 10 or 15 minutes.)

Marlburian

Always good practise to have both ticket and railcard to hand and not buried away.  Apart from the fact that it might have reminded you that the railcard had expired, if onboard staff had to wait for ages whilst everyone rummaged for their travel documents, it would slow down the ticket checking process somewhat.

Point taken, but my ticket is inspected only on about six per cent of my journeys and I'm only asked for my Railcard on about five per cent of those occasions!

I have to confess that I'm one of those who's clumsy with cards, and when I buy a ticket have trouble juggling the tickets, loose change or debit card and Railcard and putting them in safe places.

I have a very vague idea that the ticket inspection that caught me out was made just three years after the introduction of a three-year Railcard and guards were conscious that those of other silly old fools venerable Senior Citizens may have lapsed without their owners being aware.

Marlburian

A lot of the ticket examiners are based at Oxford and in recent years have had additional duties such as queue busting at Charlbury, selling tickets at Oxford gateline, and now staffing the new ticket facility at Hanborough.  Much less coverage is the result between Didcot and Reading meaning anyone travelling between Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring and Cholsey stations may well get away without buying a ticket.

After posting at 1134 this morning and logging off, I then wondered about the arithmetic of 5% of 6% of my journeys. It might have been better for me to have recalled the last time I was asked on a train for my Senior Railcard. After some head-scratching, I think that was 30 months ago, when it was out of date! Perhaps I might be forgiven, then, for not always bothering to have it to hand?

Until this year I had a small black card wallet that always got lost among all the other black objects in bag. The good news is that now I've a red card wallet that is more visible and so more quickly produced.

Marlburian