Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => Bristol (WECA) Commuters => Topic started by: Western Pathfinder on September 22, 2018, 14:34:54



Title: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Western Pathfinder on September 22, 2018, 14:34:54
To be held at Bristol city hall (the council house !) this coming Wednesday at 18:00hrs that's 6pm in the evening .
And I'm sorry for the short notice only just found it myself.
Here we go
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/bristol-transport-strategy-consultation-launch-event-tickets-49095971372
Looks interesting I'm going along to have a nose about.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: johnneyw on September 22, 2018, 16:11:36
What a pity that it's just for that evening. I would have liked to have had a look at that but will be in the Peak District then. Surely just a bit more time for people to attend would not be unreasonable?


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: grahame on September 22, 2018, 16:29:44
What a pity that it's just for that evening. I would have liked to have had a look at that but will be in the Peak District then. Surely just a bit more time for people to attend would not be unreasonable?

I think it's been publicised for about a month. "It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'". - Douglas Adams

Yes, we have only just added it to the forum calendar ... any member can add and please do!


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Western Pathfinder on September 22, 2018, 19:09:15
Along with the start date of the works to reopen the line to PortZ.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: grahame on September 22, 2018, 19:11:57
From the link posted above

Quote
DESCRIPTION

We all need to get from A to B. Transport plays a big part in our daily lives. The draft Bristol Transport Strategy sets out our vision and ambition for transport in the city up to 2036. We will be launching the consultation on the draft strategy on Wednesday 26th September at 6pm in City Hall, College Green, Bristol.

We would like to share the draft content of the Bristol Transport Strategy by inviting you, our citizens and stakeholders, along to the consultation launch and for you to take part in discussions with officers, Council Members and stakeholders who have been involved in writing the Strategy.

We want to hear your views on the issues you face when travelling around Bristol and your ideas to help us tackle congestion and improve accessibility for all our citizens and visitors. We want to hear if you think the draft Bristol Transport Strategy covers these issues and sets out solutions to help us all move around Bristol efficiently, safely and reliably.

Refreshments will be available from 5.30pm and the event will finish at 7.30pm.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: martyjon on September 22, 2018, 20:47:27
What a pity that it's just for that evening. I would have liked to have had a look at that but will be in the Peak District then. Surely just a bit more time for people to attend would not be unreasonable?
I think it's been publicised for about a month. "It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'". - Douglas Adams
Yes, we have only just added it to the forum calendar ... any member can add and please do!

I'll try to attend and I presume DR, well known to Grahame will too, I'll try and contact him in the meantime.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: TonyK on September 22, 2018, 22:45:38
I shall be confined to Devon that day, with a raft of appointments of a potentially painful type, so shan't be able to get there. I hope it isn't just more of the highly successful MetroBust. Or, for that matter, consultation of the "Here's what we are going to do, please tell us why you agree with it" ilk.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: grahame on September 23, 2018, 07:33:33
I shall be confined to Devon that day, with a raft of appointments of a potentially painful type ...

Hope that day goes well for you.  You'll be welcome to join us in spirit in Bristol, and I expect we'll report back.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: grahame on September 25, 2018, 14:48:44
Are going to the launch tomorrow of something that's already been launched?

Whilst filling out this Bristol Transport Strategy survey (https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/BristolTransport/), ...


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 25, 2018, 15:06:08
Who knows? Maybe:

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/bristol-could-become-the-laughing-stock-of-democracy/

I can't attend, sadly.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: grahame on September 27, 2018, 08:31:01
I shall be confined to Devon that day, with a raft of appointments of a potentially painful type ...

Hope that day goes well for you.  You'll be welcome to join us in spirit in Bristol, and I expect we'll report back.

Good to catch up with a handful of members - and some other contacts too - ask night.

Bristol has a transport problem. And the first step to sorting something out is admitting that you have a problem that needs sorting out in the first place ... and I think that admission and ethos was there.

I left Bath bus station on an x39 bus for Bristol at 16:17.  I got off that bus at the bottom of the slope at Temple Meads just after 17:50 ... panicking a bit about being late for the 18:00 meeting in the Committee Room at Bristol City Council.   I need not have panicked because the meeting didn't get underway until 18:15. My understanding of the "x" in x39 is that it stands for "express" ... but it was far from that as we took 20 minutes to even escape from Bath past the Park and Ride (had I taken the train I would already have been in Bristol), we queued into and through Saltford and through Brislington, and we crept in all the way from the junction before the Arnos Vale Cemetery to Temple Meads.  An astonishing display of what I can only describe as "road range" from our bus driver at the car in front which prevented him getting into a bus lane at one point - everyone was getting pretty fed up.   Yet not a unique experience (?) as one of the pages in the consultation refers to an average traffic (or is that bus) speed of 6 m.p.h.

The presentations were short - "we want your views" at the consultation launch. Personally I would have appreciated more background, but that may be an admission that I should have read up ahead of time.  A couple of quarter hour table discussions, a ten minute coffee break in the middle, around 10 tables each talking for a couple of minutes as to what they had come up with ... add those up and you see how little the organisers said - we finished on schedule by 19:30.

I did note in the council talk that "we are the only major city that does not have a mass transit system" ... and indeed a "mass transit system" may be a solution - but it struck me that there was a build desire more to have the system than to solve issues.   That may just be how the speaker came across though ... and I did wonder how Metorbus fits in to the "Mass Transit System" category - presumably it's not regarded as such, through I think (acoustics bad for me in that room) there was thought of expanding it.

The document on which they are consulting includes a map showing schemes in Bristol - and bus routes and corridors including the Metrobus.  Yet on rail it shows the stations and not the routes.  And little or no talk about rail during the 'evening'.   It's as if rail is regarded as a way of getting in and out of Bristol and is discounted by the City Council as helping you get around the city.  Sad, and astonishing - firstly rail could deliver people coming in from locations away from Bristol far more accurately to where they want to be in Bristol and indeed in the urban sprawl beyond Bristol itself.  And second, it could provide that fast transit between points in Bristol using rail routes to existing stations, stations on lines that are open but trains whizz though, and indeed on some limited re-openings with a generous station provision.

Conclusion from the tables ... putting all the various bits and views together, people would like to have
* An integrated public transport network with good connections
* That's integrated routes and information and fares
* Full coverage of by the network - not just the main corridors but residence, business and rural from early in day through to late at night
... big cheer at the suggestion of bus franchising!

The other theme that came out in addition to the carrot of efficient working public transport was the stick of hit the private motorist.   More bus and cycle lanes to squeeze motorists further, more parking restrictions with a policy to remove any free parking, congestion zones, residents parking areas (residents paying for a permit), deliveries having to be scheduled - banned at busy times. I have a certain disquiet about much of this - I would far rather that the carrots be big ones and the sticks be little twigs.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: martyjon on September 27, 2018, 10:52:38
Was good to meet up with you again last night Grahame.

I handed each of my tables acquaintances a copy of the Coffee Shop leaflet and all were impressed with some highlighting on or two of the topics.

Bristol has a transport problem.

Your dead right there Grahame, and the city has had the problem as far back as I can remember and that is over 60 years.

I first became aware of the traffic problems of Bristol when I was a paperboy delivering the Evening Post and Evening World in the locality where I lived.

Headline - Bristol Centre to be surrounded by toll booths.

That was a plan to surround the central area with a series of toll booths through which motorists would pay a toll to enter the area and it became fodder for the waste paper basket.

Headline - Bristol to get a monorail.

That was a plan to encompass the central area with an overhead monorail and BCC chartered a Viscount aircraft from Cambrian Airways for Councillors and Top Officers to visit and see Munichs experimental monorail and that scheme again became fodder for the waste paper basket.

Headline - Bristol to get a Light Rail Metro.

A scheme put forward by the former HTV West news reporter Richard Cotterell, by then MEP for the Bristol area in association with a body, Avon Transit Authority (ATA). Killed off by one Dawn Primarolo then a councillor on BCC and others.

Headline - Bristol to get a Metrobus Network.

What we are getting, a network of 3 of what was originally 5, maybe its more, fast bus routes in Bristol to get people from where they live to where they work fast. The m3 route does it slowly, on the Ring Road and the M32 in the rush hours leaving passengers behind at the later stops on the inbound journey. The m2 route doesn't take the passengers where they work and want to get to, Anchor Road vicinity and gets caught up in the regular gridlock on Redcliffe Hill and Temple Meads areas.

Headline - Bristol to get an underground.

A pie in the sky idea by the current elected Mayor of Bristol to build an underground rail network under the city, pigs will probably fly before the first sod of earth is cut to begin the first tunnel bore.

I blame Bristols traffic problems on the city's fathers, both past and present, for not taking decisive actions to rid the city of the traffic problems because they fear losing their seats at the next local election time and thus lose their nice pocket money earner, sorry councillors allowances, for, for some very little work but when it approaches re-election time they all seem to crawl out of the woodwork to boast of what they have done during their term of office representing their constituents.




Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 27, 2018, 11:21:22

I blame Bristol traffic problems on the city's fathers, both past and present, for not taking decisive actions to rid the city of the traffic problems because they fear losing their seats at the next local election time and thus lose their nice pocket money earner, sorry councillors allowances, for, for some very little work but when it approaches re-election time they all seem to crawl out of the woodwork to boast of what they have done during their term of office representing their constituents.


Maybe you're being a bit unfair to the 'city fathers'. They certainly took decisive action in the fifties, sixties and seventies, when vast swathes of the city were laid waste for major road schemes. We can all be eternally grateful that the worst of these were cancelled, and that much of the damage is now being undone.

The truth, of course, is that there is no quick or easy answer to these problems, and what seems like a good idea now may seem hideous in hindsight. That having been said, I'd be interested to hear an example of a city that has built an underground railway and later wished it hadn't...


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Lee on September 27, 2018, 14:22:50
The document on which they are consulting includes a map showing schemes in Bristol - and bus routes and corridors including the Metrobus.  Yet on rail it shows the stations and not the routes.  And little or no talk about rail during the 'evening'.   It's as if rail is regarded as a way of getting in and out of Bristol and is discounted by the City Council as helping you get around the city.  Sad, and astonishing - firstly rail could deliver people coming in from locations away from Bristol far more accurately to where they want to be in Bristol and indeed in the urban sprawl beyond Bristol itself.  And second, it could provide that fast transit between points in Bristol using rail routes to existing stations, stations on lines that are open but trains whizz though, and indeed on some limited re-openings with a generous station provision.

grahame - I agree that the attitude is very disappointing. You will recall our work on the Gateway To The Future (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=357.0) proposals back in 2007, where we modelled what a Greater Bristol Metro could look like based on the rail enhancement aspirations that existed at the time, and placed it in the expanded context of the wider regional rail enhancement aspirations that existed at the time, and modelled those as well. While there clearly has been some movement on - and some fulfilment of - some of those aspirations, it is striking how on others we are still hardly any further forward, and one can only guess how things would look today if only there had been more progress on those.

The truth, of course, is that there is no quick or easy answer to these problems, and what seems like a good idea now may seem hideous in hindsight. That having been said, I'd be interested to hear an example of a city that has built an underground railway and later wished it hadn't...

I can give you such an example.

From the early 1900's, the Chicago Tunnel Company ran an underground delivery service using, at its peak, around 150 small locomotives, 3300 miniature train cars, delivering 600,000 tons of freight a day, using basement connections to Chicago businesses. Business steadily declined until the company went bankrupt and the tunnels were sealed in 1959. However soon after, scrap metal thieves cleared out the tunnels, including the steel doors that were meant to seal off the passageways that ran under the Chicago River.

This wasn't a problem until 1992, when a pile driver in the Chicago River hit a tunnel wall. A small crack became a 20-foot hole, and 100 million gallons of water flooded the tunnels. Many downtown buildings still had basement connections to the railway, so these buildings were flooded too, ruining stock in storage rooms. The Chicago Mercantile Exchange and Board of Trade were also forced to shut down, and electrical power was widely shorted out.

The clean-up costs and estimated total damage came to more than $1 billion.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Bmblbzzz on September 27, 2018, 14:59:28
I honestly can't work out whether I missed an interesting, hopefully productive consultation or just another geeky meeting getting lost in its own irrelevant details – but it does sound as if it at least had potential to be the former. Either way, I didn't know about it until – just now. (Though I probably wouldn't have gone anyway, as Wednesday nights are usually occupied with other things.)


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: grahame on September 27, 2018, 15:53:30
I honestly can't work out whether I missed an interesting, hopefully productive consultation or just another geeky meeting getting lost in its own irrelevant details – but it does sound as if it at least had potential to be the former. Either way, I didn't know about it until – just now. (Though I probably wouldn't have gone anyway, as Wednesday nights are usually occupied with other things.)

I don't we'll find that anyone missing from the meeting will have made a huge difference to the future or transport in Bristol.   But to be fair it was the launch of a consulatation so plenty more chances to get in there - deadline 6th November I think.   And to be double fair, one of the questions being asked of attendees is "how do we reach people and encourage them to respond" ...

I get confused between all the levels of planning - the City, the two Mayoral zones, the LEP, the new Western Gateway subregion, and then on to the DfT - all with their elements of spatial and transport planning ...


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Lee on September 27, 2018, 16:02:06
I don't we'll find that anyone missing from the meeting will have made a huge difference to the future or transport in Bristol.   But to be fair it was the launch of a consulatation so plenty more chances to get in there - deadline 6th November I think.   And to be double fair, one of the questions being asked of attendees is "how do we reach people and encourage them to respond" ...

I think that you may have coined a new transport phrase there - the "consulatation" - A consolation consultation where they ask for your aspirations and then tell you why they cant deliver them to quite some consternation...

I


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Western Pathfinder on September 27, 2018, 21:03:12
I honestly can't work out whether I missed an interesting, hopefully productive consultation or just another geeky meeting getting lost in its own irrelevant details – but it does sound as if it at least had potential to be the former. Either way, I didn't know about it until – just now. (Though I probably wouldn't have gone anyway, as Wednesday nights are usually occupied with other things.)

I don't we'll find that anyone missing from the meeting will have made a huge difference to the future or transport in Bristol.   But to be fair it was the launch of a consulatation so plenty more chances to get in there - deadline 6th November I think.   And to be double fair, one of the questions being asked of attendees is "how do we reach people and encourage them to respond" ...

I get confused between all the levels of planning - the City, the two Mayoral zones, the LEP, the new Western Gateway subregion, and then on to the DfT - all with their elements of spatial and transport planning ...

You aren't the only one Grahame ,that goes for me as well and as I was sitting with you last night ,I get upon reflection the feeling that the same can be said of Bristol City Council !...


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Bmblbzzz on September 28, 2018, 10:56:41
I honestly can't work out whether I missed an interesting, hopefully productive consultation or just another geeky meeting getting lost in its own irrelevant details – but it does sound as if it at least had potential to be the former. Either way, I didn't know about it until – just now. (Though I probably wouldn't have gone anyway, as Wednesday nights are usually occupied with other things.)

I don't we'll find that anyone missing from the meeting will have made a huge difference to the future or transport in Bristol.   But to be fair it was the launch of a consulatation so plenty more chances to get in there - deadline 6th November I think.   And to be double fair, one of the questions being asked of attendees is "how do we reach people and encourage them to respond" ...

I get confused between all the levels of planning - the City, the two Mayoral zones, the LEP, the new Western Gateway subregion, and then on to the DfT - all with their elements of spatial and transport planning ...

You aren't the only one Grahame ,that goes for me as well and as I was sitting with you last night ,I get upon reflection the feeling that the same can be said of Bristol City Council !...
One of the Mayoral zones is the same as the City. The Western super Mayor is, erm, much more superer, at least in areal. And the Western Gateway... well, it's the first I've heard of that one.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: martyjon on September 28, 2018, 18:50:44
Quote
I get confused between all the levels of planning - the City, the two Mayoral zones, the LEP, the new Western Gateway subregion, and then on to the DfT - all with their elements of spatial and transport planning ...


....confused .... yes you are .... there are 3 mayoral zones in Bristol .... you forgot The Lord Mayor besides The Elected Mayor and The Metro Mayor .... but out in the sticks we have our own Town Mayors, Thornbury, Weston-Super-Mare and  Yate to name a few.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: TonyK on September 29, 2018, 11:00:41
Quote
I get confused between all the levels of planning - the City, the two Mayoral zones, the LEP, the new Western Gateway subregion, and then on to the DfT - all with their elements of spatial and transport planning ...


....confused .... yes you are .... there are 3 mayoral zones in Bristol .... you forgot The Lord Mayor besides The Elected Mayor and The Metro Mayor .... but out in the sticks we have our own Town Mayors, Thornbury, Weston-Super-Mare and  Yate to name a few.

George Ferguson explained Bristol mayor's relationship with the lord mayor as "I'm the power, he's the glory". (It's she now - we have a lady Lord Mayor.) The Western super mayor is probably, in the same analogy, the bank manager. The LEP gave us MetroBust to make the development of Filton airfield possible, before chairman Colin Skellet stood down to spend more time working for the owners of Filton airfield, and the LEP doesn't do transport any more. north somerset parish council is now operating under a version of the Chequers Brexit deal - don't want to belong to the club, but we would like the benefits please. Then there is Network Rail and let's not forget Highways England and the bus commissioners, and suddenly you see why it all costs so much and takes such a long time.

It will get better when a proper ITA is formed, and the sub-regional level seems the proper place for it, so long as the money doesn't all get spent on the bigger cities and towns at the expense of improved transport in the smaller places.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: ellendune on September 29, 2018, 11:10:47
It will get better when a proper ITA is formed, and the sub-regional level seems the proper place for it,
When is that likely to happen?


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: TonyK on September 29, 2018, 11:14:02
It will get better when a proper ITA is formed, and the sub-regional level seems the proper place for it,
When is that likely to happen?

Probably the latter part of the 22nd century, or when new technology makes it unnecessary, whichever comes last.  ;D


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 30, 2018, 21:34:09
As an aside, according to Bishopston Voice - a free monthly that circulates in these parts - Western Super Mayor Peter 'Bounder' Bowles is in cahoots with Bristol South MP Karyn Smith (I may have mys-spelled that) to see to the introduction of a JustaBus line along the South Bristol Ring Road link (you know, the one that was planned over 50 years before JustaBus was though of). A cinyc (I may have miss-spelled that) might think that by pretending to have the slightest intention of ever running buses that way they hope to strengthen the case for building the Callington Link using public transport funding...

According to the same article, 'Bounder' is in discussions with the East Japan Railway Company, though in what context is not made very clear; possibly something to do with a link to the Airport... how this all fits in with South Glos Mayor Marvin Trump's mooted underground is also unclear; 'Marvin and I work very closely' says Bowles.

Exciting times, eh what?


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: martyjon on October 01, 2018, 11:37:44
As an aside, according to Bishopston Voice - a free monthly that circulates in these parts - Western Super Mayor Peter 'Bounder' Bowles is in cahoots with Bristol South MP Karyn Smith (I may have mys-spelled that) to see to the introduction of a JustaBus line along the South Bristol Ring Road link (you know, the one that was planned over 50 years before JustaBus was though of). A cinyc (I may have miss-spelled that) might think that by pretending to have the slightest intention of ever running buses that way they hope to strengthen the case for building the Callington Link using public transport funding...

According to the same article, 'Bounder' is in discussions with the East Japan Railway Company, though in what context is not made very clear; possibly something to do with a link to the Airport... how this all fits in with South Glos Mayor Marvin Trump's mooted underground is also unclear; 'Marvin and I work very closely' says Bowles.

Exciting times, eh what?

The Metro Mayor just wants to make it look as if HE was the one that got the South Bristol Ring Road built and have his piccy took flagging off the first MetroBus service to use the road just like he did at the Aztec West roundabout where he was piccyed at the finished works claiming the works were carried out by WECA when in fact it was us, me included, council taxpayers of South Gloucestershire UA that paid for the works although funding from Central Government may have made a contribution. It must be coming up to an election, I had 4 flyers from the Tories through my letterbox last week.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: martyjon on October 01, 2018, 13:36:13
.... It must be coming up to an election, I had 4 flyers from the Tories through my letterbox last week.

And since that post just 2 hours ago I had a 5th flyer, guess what, announcing a By-Election.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: grahame on October 24, 2018, 12:20:33
Consultation closes 2nd November 2018 - I have updated diary entry to reflect this.

Link recommended to me at

https://bristol.citizenspace.com/growth-regeneration/bristol-transport-strategy/ 
 


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Lee on November 28, 2018, 14:05:28
Not exactly Bristol Transport Strategy, more draft Joint Local Transport Plan 2019-2036 wish-list featured in this Bristol Live article. (https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/9-key-changes-could-stop-2267433)


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: johnneyw on March 26, 2019, 17:17:37
Major Marv says large scale public transport changes dependent on airport expansion.

From Bristol Live:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/ambitious-mass-transit-hopes-rest-2682966


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: martyjon on March 26, 2019, 18:03:47
Major Marv will be out of office before the airport expansion plans are even approved and thus join the ever lengthening roll of honour of Bristol civic leaders who promised so much and achieved nowt.

edited to add ;-

Meanwhile the blank Roll of Honour board of Civic Leaders that actually did something to cure Bristols traffic congestion and now its air pollution problem will remain virgin territory.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: TonyK on May 12, 2019, 23:58:54
It's all a little back to front, isn't it? Most big cities have a decent transport system that they then extend to the airport. The Bristol solution is to start with the airport, then extend it to the city, something that could charitably been called "radical". The Mayor speaks some rare sense here:

Quote
The model of the airport is not just about adding flights to the UK’s total. The airport’s plan is to ease Heathrow by reducing the number of car journeys from the South West and Wales to Heathrow and Gatwick. That’s not insignificant."

The Mayor recognises that people like me are going to travel to places where the train won't get you before your annual leave runs out. I can't see how my carbon (dioxide) footprint would be improved by my having to drive past Bristol Airport, then carry on for a couple of hours or more to Heathrow or Gatwick, only to come back in the same general direction, but at 38,000 feet, most of a day later. I am more than happy to catch the bus from Cullompton to Bristol airport, and cut the congestion. I could understand the outcry if the airport were being expanded to provide additional internal flights rather than easing the load on the big hubs, but it isn't, and I can't as yet catch a train from Temple Meads to Tenerife, Menorca, or Cyprus, my last three destinations flying from Bristol. So I'm content for the airport to expand within moderation, particularly if the emphasis is on using fuel efficient aircraft like the A320 NEO and, if it can be made safe, the Boeing 737-800 MAX.

And if a by-product of that is a spanky new light rail system, kick-started by those nice people at the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan who own the airport, then I shan't grumble. Overall, it would probably cut the city's emissions more than if the airport were not expanded.

Incidentally, whilst trying to find Mayor Marvin in his favoured haunt of Malaysia last month, I rode on the excellent (and very cheap) Kuala Lumpur underground railway. He could learn much.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: grahame on May 13, 2019, 05:44:12
I can't see how my carbon (dioxide) footprint would be improved by my having to drive past Bristol Airport, then carry on for a couple of hours or more to Heathrow or Gatwick, only to come back in the same general direction, but at 38,000 feet, most of a day later.

I ... when working at various places in the USA and Canada, and a sprinkling of other obscure places such as Slovenia, used to wonder that.  Ah - more about my personal time than my CO2 at the time, I admit.  I concluded that although my personal foot print was worse than it would be with a direct flight from a nearby airport, there are many worldwide destinations which did not justify flights from more than one or two UK airports, and adding more flights would mean lower loadings, more cost, more CO2 emission as there would overall be far more air traffic.     Common destinations for sure, but is there an efficient market for Bristol to Mexico City,  Cardiff to Lubljana, or Exeter to Vancouver?

Your solution ... perhaps is to catch the train from Bristol Temple Meads (or Tiverton or even Cullompton) direct to the airport - even though it might not be the closest airport.  A darned sight greener than (say) flying from Exeter to Schipol, then Schipol to Vancouver.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: TonyK on May 16, 2019, 16:15:06
Your solution ... perhaps is to catch the train from Bristol Temple Meads (or Tiverton or even Cullompton) direct to the airport - even though it might not be the closest airport.  A darned sight greener than (say) flying from Exeter to Schipol, then Schipol to Vancouver.

As it happens, I caught Megabus from Tiverton Parkway to Heathrow (via Bristol) because of the price difference compared to train. That was on the day of the very sad happenings just outside of Exeter, which meant that trains were badly affected. I then flew to Abu Dhabi, took a bus to Dubai, joined a cruise ship calling at many places before flying back from Tokyo, so I don't think of myself as an eco-warrior, but I did travel by rail to Lincolnshire the other day, rather than drive.

I once flew from Bristol to Los Angeles via Schiphol, which seemed a good idea until someone backed a truck into the rear of the DC10 we were flying to America from Holland. The resulting 4 hour delay meant that I arrived at my hotel in LA at 7.30, but not sure which 7.30 it was.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Noggin on May 18, 2019, 10:38:40
The reality is that for many people like myself working as part of international teams, whilst tools like Skype and teleconferencing are great, it's massively more productive to work face to face and builds much stronger relationships. So business travel is not going to go away, and if the UK makes it prohibitively expensive to fly, the likes of me will simply get relocated elsewhere in Europe and the UK divisions we work for will end up being sidelined.

Bristol is great to fly from - it's one of the most efficient airports in Europe in my experience, but if I'm going for work, a schedule with less than a flight a day is a bit of a risk if anything goes wrong, so I'll often end up going to Heathrow, which to be honest is quicker to drive to, as that also generally works out faster (and cheaper) than going via Schipol. Direct trains from the west, or at the least a quick transfer at Reading or the new Old Oak Common station would significantly change the balance in favour of rail for business travellers. So the reality is that if you want to improve Bristol's economy and cut down on driving, you still need a fast, direct (or almost) rail connection to Heathrow.

Finally, a modern plane full up with passengers is actually pretty fuel efficient compared with single car drivers (although it's not great for the upper atmosphere), so until you have high-speed rail (which itself is pretty energy intensive to build and operate), it's not neccessarily the worst choice for longer domestic journeys.
 


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 18, 2019, 12:03:07
Just imagine, though, if you could get on a train at Temple Meads, Parkway or Cardiff and connect directly into the European High-Speed network? Paris in 4hr? Maybe a sleeper to Berlin?

It is entirely within the gift of governments to make this possible and affordable, and if the phrase 'climate emergency' is to be anything but empty words then they really, really should do so.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: ellendune on May 18, 2019, 12:47:58
Just imagine, though, if you could get on a train at Temple Meads, Parkway or Cardiff and connect directly into the European High-Speed network? Paris in 4hr? Maybe a sleeper to Berlin?

It is entirely within the gift of governments to make this possible and affordable, and if the phrase 'climate emergency' is to be anything but empty words then they really, really should do so.

I have found that I can match travel time for Paris, Brussels, Rotterdam and Bonn by train compared to flying. On one memorable occasion I beat flying by well over 12 hours (even though my train was delayed) as due to snow my colleague's flight was cancelled!

If we can get rid of the need to change trains at Brussels then High Speed rail wins hands down for these near Europe journeys. 


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: TonyK on May 18, 2019, 15:43:02
Just imagine, though, if you could get on a train at Temple Meads, Parkway or Cardiff and connect directly into the European High-Speed network? Paris in 4hr? Maybe a sleeper to Berlin?

It is entirely within the gift of governments to make this possible and affordable, and if the phrase 'climate emergency' is to be anything but empty words then they really, really should do so.

I have found that I can match travel time for Paris, Brussels, Rotterdam and Bonn by train compared to flying. On one memorable occasion I beat flying by well over 12 hours (even though my train was delayed) as due to snow my colleague's flight was cancelled!

If we can get rid of the need to change trains at Brussels then High Speed rail wins hands down for these near Europe journeys. 

I'm all for this, but can see the difficulties. A charter train all the way to Barcelona, Venice or wherever might be popular now and then, but if it started from Plymouth, there would soon be calls for it to stop at Parson and Bedminster on the way/. It won't be easy getting a full train all the way. There were, once, plans to run trains from Manchester, Birmingham and elsewhere, even Plymouth IIRC, right the way through the Channel Tunnel to Paris. I don't think it ever happened. They do it differently abroad. I once caught a train from Verona to Venice Santa Lucia, which is an excellent way to arrive. We pulled in between a Eurostar and the Orient Express. It was pre-digital days - one day I shall finish scanning all the random pictures I have.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 18, 2019, 17:01:55
I have happy memories of catching a train from Hoek van Holland to Berlin Zoologischer Garten, in 1989. The train was a fascinating mix of Dutch, Scandiwegian, East and West German and Russian carriages, the latter complete with provodnik in the vestibule who would top up your jamjar of black tea leaves with boiling water from the samovar. Them were the days...


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: johnneyw on May 18, 2019, 17:30:33
I have happy memories of catching a train from Hoek van Holland to Berlin Zoologischer Garten, in 1989. The train was a fascinating mix of Dutch, Scandiwegian, East and West German and Russian carriages, the latter complete with provodnik in the vestibule who would top up your jamjar of black tea leaves with boiling water from the samovar. Them were the days...


Similarly, the Harwich - Hoek route is a fond memory for me but with rail travel to and from Hamburg on the jumble of coachs and traction that constituted the Holland - Scandinavian Express through the 60s and early 70s.
Now, sadly, no more but it was a big childhood railway journey/adventure for me and little bro.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: GBM on May 18, 2019, 17:56:29
It was pre-digital days - one day I shall finish scanning all the random pictures I have.

Please do  ;D


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 18, 2019, 18:33:09
Anyone got a clear view on where we should split this topic? I mean it's an interesting discussion and all that, but it has rather moved on from the BTS Consultation...


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: TonyK on May 18, 2019, 19:21:30
Anyone got a clear view on where we should split this topic? I mean it's an interesting discussion and all that, but it has rather moved on from the BTS Consultation...

I suppose there could be a reason to split, but there's too much of that in politics these days. In any case, I'm not really expecting much more out of this than we got from the 1980 plan for trams. 39 years and £250 million later, three new subsidised bus routes.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 18, 2019, 22:09:41
Ah, very clever... shades of Mornington Crescent; we're back on-topic after a deft reverse shunt at Lyde Green. MetroBus: The 'Change UK'  of public transport.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: TonyK on May 18, 2019, 22:25:38
Ah, very clever... shades of Mornington Crescent; we're back on-topic after a deft reverse shunt at Lyde Green. MetroBus: The 'Change UK'  of public transport.

Very well spotted! I played Bradshaw's Monolith there. Just saying.


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 19, 2019, 13:19:22
Gosh, the things you can learn on this forum:

Bradshaw's Monolith. Nearest tube: Archway.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Highgate_Cemetery_-_East_-_Marx_07.jpg/512px-Highgate_Cemetery_-_East_-_Marx_07.jpg)
Image: Pierre-Yves Beaudouin / Wikimedia Commons


Title: Re: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.
Post by: TonyK on May 19, 2019, 14:58:48
Every day's a schoolday - I was thinking Mark rather than any other Bradshaw.

(http://www.bradleystokejournal.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/bristol-metrobus-ipoint-long-ashton.jpg)

From the Bradley Stoke Journal.



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