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All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: grahame on October 12, 2018, 04:03:22 am



Title: The fair weather railway?
Post by: grahame on October 12, 2018, 04:03:22 am
Two samples

Quote
07:30 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 11:32
07:30 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 11:32 will be started from Swansea.
It will no longer call at Carmarthen, Ferryside, Kidwelly, Pembrey & Burry Port and Llanelli.
This is due to forecasted severe weather.

Quote
12:16 Liskeard to Looe due 12:45
12:16 Liskeard to Looe due 12:45 will be cancelled.
This is due to forecasted severe weather.

Have weather cancellations become more common place, or has reporting made them more visible?

Will Cross Country be running south of Exeter today?   GWR services with IETs?


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Timmer on October 12, 2018, 06:30:45 am
More info from the GWR website:
https://www.gwr.com/about-us/media-centre/info

I am particularly concerned about parts of Wales with the persistence of the band of rain siting itself over the country.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on October 12, 2018, 06:43:26 am
Carmarthenís not expected to run for most/all of the day.
Liskard-Looe cancelled throughout on JourneyCheck.

Tree on the line earlier so a Penzance service is running 110 minutes behind schedule and is also carrying CrossCountry passengers. Itís fine in my neck of the woods but Iím surprised the leaves on the track excuse has not been used yet.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: bobm on October 12, 2018, 06:56:04 am
No Cross Country Voyagers to operate along the seawall before 10:00.   Yesterday they were saying no service throughout Cornwall today with all services starting/terminating at Exeter until after high tide and then Plymouth but that seems to have been rescinded.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: bignosemac on October 12, 2018, 07:31:01 am
The first up IET to Paddington (1A72 0553 Plymouth) passed Dawlish without incident around 0640. That was the up line though and high tide isn't until around 0920. First IET beyond Exeter (1C71 0635 Paddington) is due past at around 0855. Be interesting to see how that gets on. Could be running bang road.

As I type, waves are starting to splash the tracks alongside Marine Parade, as seen on the Blenheim Guest House webcam.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: bobm on October 12, 2018, 07:41:52 am
With the weather that is forecast, I am not sure I would park a car there....

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/dawsea.png)


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: ellendune on October 12, 2018, 08:07:34 am
Carmarthenís not expected to run for most/all of the day.
Liskard-Looe cancelled throughout on JourneyCheck.

Tree on the line earlier so a Penzance service is running 110 minutes behind schedule and is also carrying CrossCountry passengers. Itís fine in my neck of the woods but Iím surprised the leaves on the track excuse has not been used yet.

Can understand about Looe - has anyone even costed what it would take to solve this?  Raising the track I suppose. 

Trees - If NR clear the trees they are in trouble and if they do not then they get in trouble. Can't win really!


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: bignosemac on October 12, 2018, 08:11:27 am
Screenshot from San Remo cam at Dawlish at 0808:

(https://preview.ibb.co/f28peU/rps20181012-080922.jpg)

Pretty angry.



Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Western Pathfinder on October 12, 2018, 08:52:19 am
I had the opportunity to visit a certain control centre in Swindon during the late afternoon and early evening yesterday,most interesting to see the massive amount of hard work,that is put in by the staff from both NR & GWR when having to deal with the  Weather that we are currently experiencing .


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: bignosemac on October 12, 2018, 09:18:32 am
GWR seem to have chickened out. 1C71, the 0635 PAD-PNZ was a HST today. Here it is passing Dawlish, getting a wash.

(https://preview.ibb.co/gM7zw9/Screenshot-20181012-091240-3.png)


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Timmer on October 12, 2018, 09:22:15 am
GWR seem to have chickened out. 1C71, the 0635 PAD-PNZ was a HST today.
Won't be able to do that for much longer.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: bignosemac on October 12, 2018, 09:44:49 am
GWR seem to have chickened out. 1C71, the 0635 PAD-PNZ was a HST today.
Won't be able to do that for much longer.


I may be being a little unfair on GWR. Could be a result of stock displacement after last night's problems with a tree down at Devonport.

1CO4 0730 PAD-PNZ due through around 1030. That's also booked as an IET.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: broadgage on October 12, 2018, 09:57:05 am
We do seem to increasingly have a fair weather only railway.
Any reasonable person would expect disruption in truly extreme weather, but we seem to face increasing disruption in what might be called seasonal weather rather than truly extreme conditions.

A good comparison in my view is the effects of the weather on other transport, if roads and airlines are significantly disrupted, then one might expect railways to also suffer.

What is not in my view acceptable is frequent severe  railway disruption "due to severe weather" when main roads and airlines are operating normally.

Both network rail and TOCs need more robust plans for wind, rain, snow and hot weather.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Sixty3Closure on October 12, 2018, 10:43:19 am
It is (and has been) raining a lot here in Carmarthenshire but its wet rather than stormy.

I've also just had a shed installed by a company who drove down from Yorkshire early this morning and they didn't seem to have any problems getting here. Very impressed watching them build a shed in the dark, in the rain


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Oxonhutch on October 12, 2018, 10:51:38 am
Very impressed watching them build a shed in the dark, in the rain

They're from Yorkshire. It's nobut a bit damp lad!


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: bignosemac on October 12, 2018, 12:10:49 pm
My apologies to GWR, and by extension Hitachi. It would appear that the earlier scheduled IET wasn't swapped out because of the forecast for Dawlish.

1C04, 0730 PAD-PNZ has sailed through the sea spray around 10.45am, no problem. 2x 5car Class 802. The Japanese may not have considered Darwin Award contenders (see: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18792.msg248410#msg248410 et seq) when they designed the IET, but I think they know a thing or two about designing trains to cope with adverse weather conditions. Video proof:


Credit to Dawlish Beach Cams https://www.dawlishbeach.com



Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: plymothian on October 12, 2018, 02:01:18 pm
Not quite, it got delayed after that due to loss of interlock due to a wave strike.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Rob on the hill on October 12, 2018, 02:04:39 pm
Indeed, further delayed at Newton Abbot:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40111/2018/10/12/advanced


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: 1st fan on October 12, 2018, 02:06:01 pm
Not quite, it got delayed after that due to loss of interlock due to a wave strike.
I suppose that could happen to anyone and they didn't just get cancelled like the voyagers.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: bignosemac on October 12, 2018, 02:31:52 pm
Not quite, it got delayed after that due to loss of interlock due to a wave strike.

So, it would've been fine if the doors didn't need opening after Dawlish!

At least it kept going. A Voyager would've ground to a halt with just a seaside bucket full of sea water dumped on the roof.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Lee on October 12, 2018, 03:08:12 pm
From Plymouth Live: (https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/gwr-train-starts-leaking-passengers-2101734)

Quote from: Plymouth Live
GWR train starts LEAKING on passengers in Storm Callum

Jim Ayres and his partner were 'getting splashed' in the train carriage

A video taken this morning captured a constant stream of water dripping into a Great Western Railway (GWR) carriage as Storm Callum hit.

Jim Ayres and his wife Emma boarded the Plymouth to Paddington train shortly before 10am this morning, but instead of being greeted by a nice dry seating area they kept their coats on as they were "getting splashed" by dripping water overhead.

Jim said: "Travelled this morning on the 09.49 from Plymouth to Paddington. As you can see, the roof was leaking on the train in carriage.

"With the soaring cost of GWR fares and their atrocious punctuality record, I think the least GWR could offer their long-suffering passengers is rainproof carriages.

"For the duration of what was supposed to be a relaxing three and a half hour journey, my wife and I were left anxious about the possibility of an electrical short.

"This was on departure from Plymouth. God only knows how much worse it will get if the waves hit the train at Dawlish.

"We're getting splashed!"

Jim added that he meant the complaint to be a 'bit tongue and cheek' and posed for some rather forlorn looking pictures to accompany the video.

A GWR spokesman said: ďWe are sorry for any inconvenience caused to customers in that High Speed Train carriage this morning; we have made our train maintenance team aware of the dripping so it can repaired as soon as possibleĒ.

Plymouth is being lashed by up to a week of rain in just a few hours as Storm Callum sweeps off the Atlantic, triggering warnings from the Met Office.

Flights in and out of both Devon and Cornwall have been scrapped on Friday morning along with all CrossCountry trains and some branch line services.

Power cuts are being reported along with standing water and debris in the roads as the first of two warnings comes into force.

A yellow warning remains in place until midnight and will be followed by a second which covers the whole of Saturday.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: bignosemac on October 12, 2018, 03:21:52 pm
But that's a HST. The fanboys believe they are invincible and can go on forever, with no need for the Japano-Italian upstart young 'uns. :P


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Lee on October 12, 2018, 03:40:36 pm
Yes but remember #There'll always be a buffet, while there's a Pullman train, wherever there's an Express Cafť, there'll be shelter from the rain...#


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: chuffed on October 12, 2018, 06:46:08 pm
#Green,grey not blue, what does it mean to you? Shout it aloud,make broadgage proud,menus awake......#


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 12, 2018, 07:01:34 pm
More footage from the Dawlish webcam: https://www.youtube.com/user/dawlishbeach/videos

Spare a thought as well for those staff working on the signalling upgrade in Cornwall this weekend (it started today)!



Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: broadgage on October 12, 2018, 07:16:31 pm
#Green,grey not blue, what does it mean to you? Shout it aloud,make broadgage proud,menus awake......#

don't understand the significance, do please elucidate.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: martyjon on October 12, 2018, 07:26:13 pm
BBC reporting emergency services evacuating a train trapped in flood waters at Aberdare.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 12, 2018, 07:30:43 pm
Power lines are down in the Wrangaton area, no trains Newton Abbot/Totnes-Plymouth.
A38 shut too, so getting from Plymouth-Exeter is a bit of challenge!


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: martyjon on October 12, 2018, 07:46:38 pm
Power lines are down in the Wrangaton area, no trains Newton Abbot/Totnes-Plymouth.
A38 shut too, so getting from Plymouth-Exeter is a bit of challenge!

Take the A386 Plymouth - Okehampton then the A30 Okehampton - Exeter.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 12, 2018, 08:12:30 pm
Power lines are down in the Wrangaton area, no trains Newton Abbot/Totnes-Plymouth.
A38 shut too, so getting from Plymouth-Exeter is a bit of challenge!

Take the A386 Plymouth - Okehampton then the A30 Okehampton - Exeter.

...err. The A386 out of Plymouth is usually at a stand anyway (well a very slow crawl at least) between 1600 and 2000.... ::)


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: grahame on October 12, 2018, 09:10:34 pm
Power lines are down in the Wrangaton area, no trains Newton Abbot/Totnes-Plymouth.
A38 shut too, so getting from Plymouth-Exeter is a bit of challenge!

Take the A386 Plymouth - Okehampton then the A30 Okehampton - Exeter.

Don't I recall a railway headed that way - or is a bit in the middle of that missing too?


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Adrian on October 13, 2018, 08:20:33 am
Always strikes me as perverse logic when Network Rail suspends services in the name of safety - and those people who still need to travel are forced to make a somewhat more hazardous journey by road.  Seems to me that in many cases it's because they don't want the inconvenience of trains potentially becoming stranded, if there is more than a slight chance of that happening.

And who exactly decides whether it is safe or not to operate a train service?  After the snow back in March you would have expected that all stations would have been inspected for safety before train services resumed, but my local station clearly wasn't - there was a sheet of ice up the steps to the platform.  Yet half an inch of snow covering the rails, and all trains must stop?


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 13, 2018, 09:06:29 am
Always strikes me as perverse logic when Network Rail suspends services in the name of safety - and those people who still need to travel are forced to make a somewhat more hazardous journey by road.  Seems to me that in many cases it's because they don't want the inconvenience of trains potentially becoming stranded, if there is more than a slight chance of that happening.

And who exactly decides whether it is safe or not to operate a train service?  After the snow back in March you would have expected that all stations would have been inspected for safety before train services resumed, but my local station clearly wasn't - there was a sheet of ice up the steps to the platform.  Yet half an inch of snow covering the rails, and all trains must stop?

It's a reflection on society as a whole - Wales copped it pretty hard yesterday and the far South West but for most of the country it was what we used to call (in a more stoic age) "wet and windy".

I was working in Lancashire all week - travelled up to Preston on the (excellent) Virgin WCML service from Euston, came back yesterday. On Thursday night the News was full of storm and tempest, advising people not to travel, trains will all be cancelled, don't travel unless you have to etc etc, come Friday morning yes it was raining and breezy but I travelled from Darwen back to Preston on the M65 without drama and the train from Preston back to Euston, which started from Glasgow was 5 minutes late but on time into Euston - same thing happened a few months ago.

We live on an island surrounded by an occasionally angry sea and with occasional rough weather elsewhere. We, the infrastructure, its operators and the media should be more robust.

Why do we give weather features names for goodness sake? (and whatever happened to Hurricane Higgins?)



Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: grahame on October 13, 2018, 09:59:02 am
Why do we give weather features names for goodness sake?

Why do we give trains names come to that?

I suspect to help easily identify them ... "Storm Daniels" is much easier than "the storm that hit Washington in January 2018"


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 13, 2018, 10:50:49 am
I was working in Lancashire all week - travelled up to Preston on the (excellent) Virgin WCML service from Euston, came back yesterday. On Thursday night the News was full of storm and tempest, advising people not to travel, trains will all be cancelled, don't travel unless you have to etc etc, come Friday morning yes it was raining and breezy but I travelled from Darwen back to Preston on the M65 without drama and the train from Preston back to Euston, which started from Glasgow was 5 minutes late but on time into Euston - same thing happened a few months ago.

We live on an island surrounded by an occasionally angry sea and with occasional rough weather elsewhere. We, the infrastructure, its operators and the media should be more robust.

A case of managing expectations?  ;)

Glad you got back to Euston on time.  Many services were heavily delayed on the WCML yesterday though, especially later in the day.  The 13:58 Holyhead to Euston was stung particularly hard, eventually terminating at Crewe 2 hours 20 and minutes late.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: didcotdean on October 13, 2018, 12:49:24 pm
Why do we give weather features names for goodness sake?

Why do we give trains names come to that?

I suspect to help easily identify them ... "Storm Daniels" is much easier than "the storm that hit Washington in January 2018"

What really prompted the Met Office and their Irish counterpart into action was the so-called 'St June's Day Storm' of 27/10/2013. They didn't call it that, but was a name attached to it by a commercial forecaster, although the storm was also variously called Christian, Simone, Carmen, and Allan by other organisations. Having a single name with a degree of official authority was thought desirable after this confusion for all storms expected to be felt somewhere in the UK or Ireland.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: froome on October 13, 2018, 08:36:07 pm
Always strikes me as perverse logic when Network Rail suspends services in the name of safety - and those people who still need to travel are forced to make a somewhat more hazardous journey by road.  Seems to me that in many cases it's because they don't want the inconvenience of trains potentially becoming stranded, if there is more than a slight chance of that happening.

And who exactly decides whether it is safe or not to operate a train service?  After the snow back in March you would have expected that all stations would have been inspected for safety before train services resumed, but my local station clearly wasn't - there was a sheet of ice up the steps to the platform.  Yet half an inch of snow covering the rails, and all trains must stop?

It's a reflection on society as a whole - Wales copped it pretty hard yesterday and the far South West but for most of the country it was what we used to call (in a more stoic age) "wet and windy".

I was working in Lancashire all week - travelled up to Preston on the (excellent) Virgin WCML service from Euston, came back yesterday. On Thursday night the News was full of storm and tempest, advising people not to travel, trains will all be cancelled, don't travel unless you have to etc etc, come Friday morning yes it was raining and breezy but I travelled from Darwen back to Preston on the M65 without drama and the train from Preston back to Euston, which started from Glasgow was 5 minutes late but on time into Euston - same thing happened a few months ago.

We live on an island surrounded by an occasionally angry sea and with occasional rough weather elsewhere. We, the infrastructure, its operators and the media should be more robust.

Why do we give weather features names for goodness sake? (and whatever happened to Hurricane Higgins?)



I was also up in Lancashire towards the end of this week. Later on Friday, presumably after you left, there were many cancellations and a lot of frustrating delays, which were all being blamed on the weather. And yet they had far less rain than down in Wales and the south-west, though the wind was definitely blowing a bit!


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 13, 2018, 08:47:39 pm
I was working in Lancashire all week - travelled up to Preston on the (excellent) Virgin WCML service from Euston, came back yesterday. On Thursday night the News was full of storm and tempest, advising people not to travel, trains will all be cancelled, don't travel unless you have to etc etc, come Friday morning yes it was raining and breezy but I travelled from Darwen back to Preston on the M65 without drama and the train from Preston back to Euston, which started from Glasgow was 5 minutes late but on time into Euston - same thing happened a few months ago.

We live on an island surrounded by an occasionally angry sea and with occasional rough weather elsewhere. We, the infrastructure, its operators and the media should be more robust.

A case of managing expectations?  ;)

Glad you got back to Euston on time.  Many services were heavily delayed on the WCML yesterday though, especially later in the day.  The 13:58 Holyhead to Euston was stung particularly hard, eventually terminating at Crewe 2 hours 20 and minutes late.


The one bit of good advice (as it always is in these circumstances) was be prepared to travel early to mitigate the risk of later delays - I did, and was OK.

Wales got hit very hard by the storm as I noted in my original post so perhaps the issue with the Holyhead service wasn't surprising - overall from what I saw however the WCML long distance London-Scotland services held up pretty well, and the "excellent" comment on those servivces wasn't intended to be specific to yesterday, just the general level of service, including customer service - GWR could learn a lot from them.

However this isn't a race to the bottom - overall - we just need to learn to toughen up a bit in these circumstances.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 13, 2018, 09:04:31 pm
Yes their customer service is very good. Second best large operator in that regard after Cross Country in my opinion.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: 1st fan on November 22, 2018, 03:31:29 pm
Why do we give weather features names for goodness sake?

Why do we give trains names come to that?

I suspect to help easily identify them ... "Storm Daniels" is much easier than "the storm that hit Washington in January 2018"

Ah yes giving trains names is an excellent idea especially on the Cotswold line. Options such as "Terminates At", "Cancelled", "Will Be Started From", "Will No Longer Call At" etc. would seem to be obvious names.


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Andy on November 23, 2018, 02:20:49 pm
Why do we give weather features names for goodness sake?

Why do we give trains names come to that?

I suspect to help easily identify them ... "Storm Daniels" is much easier than "the storm that hit Washington in January 2018"

Ah yes, ....
If only the UK Govt were as pro-active in taking action to eliminate the problems arising from/risk of storm damage along the seawall as PoTUS has been to deal with Storm(y) Daniels....
;-)




Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: Bus Queen on November 26, 2018, 07:29:07 am
What is this obsession with giving everything a name actually all about. What happens when that storm kills do children view everyone with that name as evil. What happens if Trevor the train is involved in an accident & is beyond repair. Do we mourn Trevor and  say he left x amount of friends behind that Trevor was a lovely train. 


Title: Re: The fair weather railway?
Post by: grahame on November 26, 2018, 08:06:36 am
What is this obsession with giving everything a name actually all about. What happens when that storm kills do children view everyone with that name as evil. What happens if Trevor the train is involved in an accident & is beyond repair. Do we mourn Trevor and  say he left x amount of friends behind that Trevor was a lovely train. 

No easy solution, I fear ... I think we *do* need some sort of short code rather than a long description, but what it should be ...



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