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I am new so bear with me. I have looked at the pocket timetables for 2019 which do not seem to be any different to now. Can someone please tell me what has happened to the proposed Devon Metro (and new services to Cornwall) as I understood they would still come in in January even though the 802's would not use an accelerated timetable until May..


If there is a Devon Metro thread elsewhere, please move this post.

Welcome to the forum!

So many subjects interact with each other that it's difficult to know what to post where - but we're a very welcoming place and if it feels the best place to post, it probably is.  And one or two of our team can merge / split topics as they run so that make for a good searchable archive later on, and keep all discussions on a topic together.  Anyway - enough of the technicalities ...

January 2019 public timetable changes have been put on hold - and I wouldn't like to bet on any particular new date just at present.   That hold is on all changes.   Newly timed long distance trains from London to the West Country (and elsewhere) were planned such that they leave paths for other more local trains to run in between them, thus a new timetable for local trains.  If the long distance trains are still running to the old timings, the local ones cannot run to the new, as the railway doesn't have boundless capacity - in fact it's getting pretty full in places.

You may ask "could there be a January 2019 AND a later timetable change".    That's not happening ...

a) There aren't enough timetable planners to work it out and check it

b) It would mean two rather than one set of changes to the local services - and each time there's a change, there's always someone who has a good use for the existing times - however peculiar - and will be pretty put out by the changes

c) Extra trains haven't been rolling in to the Devon and Cornwall area as quickly as would have been hoped. Delays on "Castle class" conversions, delays on Crossrail, delays in being able to run substitute trains into Portsmouth Harbour so that the 158s can be sent to Exeter ...

There will be a few January changes - mostly in operational / working timetables.   For example, St Phillip's Marsh won't have any HSTs to service and IETs will be running up Filton Bank, the remaining stabling lines at Old Oak will be gone ...

I cannot see capacity being a problem, may shortage of rolling stock, as there is no increase in the Exmouth branch. There are already the Paignton - Newton abbot services. The overtaking at Dawlish Warren would have to stop but this would improve timings and the locals could follow the expresses improving connections for Teignmouth and Dawlish. There would be slightly worse for Paignton but with a half hour service not that bad.

Two coach trains could operate, every half hour, until more stock becomes available. I know all the 150/1's have gone.

I'll leave it for others to answer for Devon track capacity, etc.     On a technicallity, 150/126 was still around last week and I believe is still with us for a few more months.  Delight to have it on the 17:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central (20:47) last Tuesday - 9th October.  Think there might be a second one around too - not sure; most have gone.

There is no more capacity on the Exmouth branch.  The only thing to do to make it more frequent than the current 30min interval service would to be to add an additional crossing loop between Topsham and Exmouth.  No chance. :P

Elsewhere, Exeter St.Davids station is already becoming a capacity constraint.  If you add additional services there would have to be a lot more platform sharing, and that is frowned upon at present due to the risks involved.  Can be cured by adding mid-platform signals.  No chance. ::)

I make no appologies concerning my negative comments about capacity improvements.  Seen it all tried before and fall apart because its put in the too difficult (and expensive) box.

Edit to add: I think in a past life I was once asked to look at capacity on the Exmouth branch and came up with the idea of having two parallel single lines betwen Topsham and Exmouth and removing (saving) a set of points at Topsham in turn.  Cheaper first cost than a new crossing loop, and less long term ongoing maintenance and renewal liability and hence cost.  Now then, what happened to that idea..... ::)

The Devon Metro does not include, at the moment, extra capacity on the Exmouth line which would require another passing loop. All the Exmouth trains would go to Paignton giving the half hour service to Paignton. The Barnstaple service every hour would run to East sidings (I think the name should be changed to Morrisons) to reverse.

Example times could be Barnstaple-Exeter Central arrives at xx.10 at St Davids then to Exeter Central, with time to tip out, then empty to Morrisons to reverse. Paignton- Exmouth arrives at St Davids at xx.15 and xx45 leaves at xx.20 and xx.50. Waterloo departs as now xx.25. It would maintain the existing connections.

The times are tight but I believe it is all computer controlled, or advised, now.

Some good points there, but, the signalling at Exeter is not computer controlled, its a manually controlled (but electrical) system.  One of the big constraints is the Red Cow level crossing at St.Davids.  This already gets closed for significant times each day and adding to that won't help at all.  You can fiddle with train timings quite a lot but end up with the same result.  Ultimately its track/signalling/platform capacity that becomes the biggest constraint.

Still the same crossing closures as now for the Waterloo and Barnstaple services.

I agree about the crossing but it's about time it was replaced by a bridge that could rise alongside the tracks using railway land and the car park crossing the tracks at a suitable height North of the existing crossing.

Exeter is expected to grow by about 20,000 people in the next ten years to 140,000. Paignton (pop.50,000) and Torquay (66,000) have become commuter towns for Exeter.

Maybe so. These things can take a surprising length of time to come to fruition though, even when there is a compelling case: https://goo.gl/maps/zENN4D5BuyC2

How interesting. Did it really work out cheaper? I appreciate that the current Exe Estuary trail is mostly built (I think) on what was railway land acquired for a possible second track, but I'm thinking of having to add another track over the River Clyst bridge between Topsham and Exton, as well as several underbridges where the railway crosses lanes and streams.

Well I did say in a past life!  Can't remember now what the state of the bridges were at that time.  Possibly talking of at least 40 years ago :o

Well I did say in a past life!  Can't remember now what the state of the bridges were at that time.  Possibly talking of at least 40 years ago :o
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Ha ha - fair enough, S&TE! Interesting that increasing capacity for the Exmouth branch was on anyone's radar ~40 years ago. My memory (which goes back about that far) is of first generation DMUs grinding up and down the branch much less full than today and little (or no?) Sunday service.

Until the 1960s (AIUI) the branch was double from Exmouth Junction to Topsham and then single from Topsham to Exmouth (with a goods loop at Lympstone [Village]) although there was clearly enough land in railway ownership to double-track Topsham to Exmouth (never implemented) at the cost of widening some underbridges. Since then, Exmouth Junction to Topsham has been singled (with the new platforms at Digby and Newcourt taking up half of the old double track formation), and most of the line from Topsham to Exmouth now has the Exe Estuary trail alongside it on the previously "spare" land.

Consequently options for increasing trains-per-hour are limited, and would presumably need a passing loop at Lympstone Village and a passing loop (or even full redoubling) between Digby and Exmouth Junction. There is room for a second track on the viaduct at Lympstone Village station but squeezing in a second platform might be the (expensive) challenge.

That's how I see it, anyway. What do others think?

 

Sounds a good proposal that would work, but for timetable robustness I would go with your double track section idea.  However, such a sensible proposal would, of course, get entirely bogged down in the NR GRIP process and never see the light of day :P

Welcome from me, also! I watch the Devon Metro news more carefully since I moved to within 3 miles of Tiverton Parkway. From the answers already given, we can see that any change to a railway is always a frustrating slow matter, and like the wings of the butterfly starting a hurricane, the smallest thing can cause major headaches elsewhere. The good news is that the general direction seems to be forward,even with all the snags along the way.

Is there any mileage in persuading Exeter Chiefs to part-fund a loop/turn-back between Digby and Sowton and Newcourt?

[imghttp://(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4604/25592516047_85868b938b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EZwkoF)Exeter Train depot february 2018 (https://flic.kr/p/EZwkoF) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr][/img]

Image of extended Exeter Depot that is under construction.
I thought I would try an image relevant to the Devon Metro. Passed through Exeter yesterday and they are still levelling the site. Image is looking from the NW. Level crossing to left out of image.

(http://)(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4575/38295549254_b7710a1ce1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21m3GAA)Exeter new depot (https://flic.kr/p/21m3GAA) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

Another image from SE

The idea has been kicked into touch.

They could at least try. Surely not too big a job to tackle.

The proposed Riviera stadium and music events centre at Nightingale Park (ex refuse tip) is up for planning permission soon. This is within 200yds of the proposed Kingskerswell  Station (I would call it Riviera Way (Torquay)) and the developers said they would make a contribution.

This might make it happen yet the cost seem to be spiralling out of control for two platforms and some ramps just as Marsh Barton's cost have.

I've been thinking about this idea as I trundle past twice a day.....

I think the problem with having the turn-back / loop *between Digby & Sowton and Newcourt* is that it doesn't help to solve the capacity constraint on the single line between Topsham and Exmouth Junction. The problem with having the loop _at_ Digby is that there is no room - the platform takes up the space of the lifted 2nd track. The problem with having the loop _south_ of Digby is that it is too close to the existing loop at Topsham and so doesn't help with capacity.

The current service is 2 trains per hour (tph) in each direction on the single line. This makes full use of the exisiting capacity because it takes trains ~ 13 minutes to go from Topsham to Exmouth Junction (and it will take slightly longer if the proposed station at Monkerton between Digby and Polsloe Bridge gets built).

The only way to run more trains on this section is to have a loop, but to maintain regular services it must, by symmetry, be somewhere that is  ~7 minutes north of Topsham. so the new loop really has to be north of Digby, between Digby and the proposed station site at Monkerton. Of course it would be even better for timetable resilience to re-double all the way to Exmouth Junction, but this would cost more, not least because Polsloe Bridge and Monkerton would then need two platforms rather than one.

So perhaps a plan could be:

(1) Install a loop between Digby and the proposed station site at Monkerton, and upgrade the signalling so that the line in one of the platforms at Topsham is reversible. This allows a 4 tph service to Tophsam. Alternate southbound trains would continue to Exmouth as currently, while the others would turn-back at Topsham. Thus Digby could have 4tph to Exeter, 4tph to Topsham and 2tph to Exmouth. This requires upgraded signalling, some pointwork and a short section of new loop line.

(1a) (optional) beef up timetable resilience by re-doubling all the way from the new loop in (1) to Exmouth Junction. Amongst other things, this has the advantage of preventing southbound trains at Exmouth Junction from blocking the Up Waterloo line while they await access to the branch. It would, however, require station upgrades as well as new track and an upgrade of Exmouth Junction.

(2) (possibly later) Install a loop at Lympstone Village so that all 4 tph to Topsham from stage (1) can run to Exmouth.

Newton Abbott to Paignton closed until 1600, 11 November for some track laying. Cannot be much.

(http://)(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7872/46381955974_da47947179_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dEBDA7)Exeter Depot 14 February 2019 (https://flic.kr/p/2dEBDA7) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

Very slow progress at Exeter Depot with only the steelwork for one shed.

158 in the background. Another seemed to be working the Newton Abbot -Paignton shuttle. I boarded one at 14.10

No news of the Devon Metro start unless an expert here knows different..

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49654444882_c28365568f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iDN1wE)St James Park station with train 143 x 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2iDN1wE) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

Informed that work on cutting back the embankment started last week at Exeter St James Park to lengthen the platform this week when the line is closed to renew Exmouth Junction trackwork to raise the line speed.

I hope to find a picture of the work during the week.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50536548886_dc3b9c6e17_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jZK2jo)St James Park extension (https://flic.kr/p/2jZK2jo) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

St James Park by raymondindevon

Work also going on this half term to extend platform at Lympstone Commando.

That sounds ominous!

Government report re levelling up Britain. Infrastructure Strategy

Page 41 Reopening of Cullompton and Wellington. New station in Edginswell.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/938049/NIS_final_web_single_page.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0KHNKpHdLTgSZPenh-GH8uqlzxkJyJ2h1ncs52V30Xqy6ZUk_ZBEFBt6Q (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/938049/NIS_final_web_single_page.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0KHNKpHdLTgSZPenh-GH8uqlzxkJyJ2h1ncs52V30Xqy6ZUk_ZBEFBt6Q)

Also on Spotlight tonight reopening of Okehampton line.

Page 41:

I have heard whispers in other places of work being carried out with a view to a service from May 2021.

Page 16 December Modern Railways moots the idea of summer 2021. On a rumour front platform 2 at Exeter St Davids could be used to reverse such a service.

Platform 2 was the home of the Okehampton train in the olden days. That was also the platform for the erstwhile Paddington-Exeter sleeper coach. Oh dear I am showing my age!

Just as well the Paignton service has resumed every half hour as I drove past Torre station about 820am and there was a line of schoolchildren about 400 yards long two abreast  along the narrow Newton Road pavement. There must have been about 200 of them, no masks, no social distancing.

The two grammar schools have a very wide catchment area.

Two units 165134/132 were working this service today. Here at Paignton 0830. Same problem as 143's as the guard cannot pass through the units; although I think the guard would need a hazmat suit today. This is probably a short term solution to the school run.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51021296693_2a2492d7fb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kJztXc)165134 and 132 at Paignton 08.30 10 march 2021 (https://flic.kr/p/2kJztXc) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

^This school run train on it's return had to be split at St David's as 2x 165/166s cannot operate on the Exmouth branch. Read it on another site. 12m longer than 2x150s

A 166 is running the training train, saw it on Dawlish cams as 5Z46 Paignton to Exeter. goes back to Paignton as 5Z47 then to Crediton 5Z48.

It was 166211 which ran to Crediton and back to Exeter depot.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51263276200_8ce87b62a5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m6XG2E)166211 5Z48 Paignton crediton at 18.12. 150 as 5Z29 shunting  to Platform 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2m6XG2E) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

Devon Live reports that Edginswell station has been given the "go ahead".  Good news given that there was some relatively recent umming and ahhing about it's future but the article doesn't really give much detail about timescales or indeed what getting the "go ahead" actually means in the process.  It does however cover decisions made on a couple of access issues.
The article can be found on the link below.


https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/new-torquay-railway-station-gets-8908752

Edginswell has it's own thread. Money is the problem. The £13/14m stashed away is now not enough. Torbay reckon they are £10m short.
Money is also affecting platform 2 extension at St David's, new entrance at Newton Abbot, and lifts at Torquay.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=21542.15

Entirely happy for admins to move it onto this thread, it would make sense.

Too much history to be lost in the Devon Metro thread.

No easy answer to satisfy all - not a merge nor a shift.  It might be sensible to comment in BOTH threads with a note in one of the directing readers of one or other thread across.

Just to clarify, I meant I was okay with moving my post on Edginswell Station from the Devon Metro to the Edginswell thread.... I just didn't spot it in time.  On reflection though, perhaps a mention on both threads may have been a good idea.