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Journey by Journey => Shorter journeys in Devon => Topic started by: plymothian on October 14, 2018, 07:13:46 am



Title: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: plymothian on October 14, 2018, 07:13:46 am
The main line in Devon is closed again this time due to a collapsed culvert which is causing a sinkhole to swallow up part of the line (currently 4 sleepers in size) in the Newton Abbot area.

Significant disruption expected.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: grahame on October 14, 2018, 07:15:24 am
The main line in Devon is closed again this time due to a collapsed culvert which is causing a sinkhole to swallow up part of the line (currently 4 sleepers in size) in the Newton Abbot area.

Significant disruption expected.

Thanks for that - I had a horrid wonder about the sea wall when I read

Quote
Cancellations to services between Exeter St Davids and Newton Abbot
Due to urgent repairs to the track between Exeter St Davids and Newton Abbot all lines are blocked.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
Cross Country Trains and GWR have mutual tickets acceptance on Trains and Road Replacement Buses between Bristol and Penzance.
Further Information
An update will follow within the next 2 hours.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bignosemac on October 14, 2018, 07:49:48 am
Location is around the 212 mile post, almost equidistant between Teignmouth and Newton Abbot, where the line runs alongside the River Teign estuary.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: plymothian on October 14, 2018, 08:12:59 am
(https://flic.kr/p/PTAAZ7)

trying to share a picture bit flickr won't play ball


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bobm on October 14, 2018, 08:16:03 am
From Open Train Times

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/sink.png)


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bobm on October 14, 2018, 08:23:38 am
(https://flic.kr/p/PTAAZ7)

trying to share a picture bit flickr won't play ball

https://www.flickr.com/photos/osb-jdgl/31432660888/in/dateposted-public/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/osb-jdgl/31432660888/in/dateposted-public/)

This link will work for those who click on it.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: Charlie (in Gloucester) on October 14, 2018, 09:12:25 am
Ouch. Up here it’s raining a lot but I wouldn’t think that anything of significance is going on..


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: paul7755 on October 14, 2018, 10:29:21 am
When did “sinkhole” become the all embracing term used by journalists for any underground fault such as the aforesaid collapsed culvert?

Is “collapsed culvert” too difficult to understand?

Paul


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bignosemac on October 14, 2018, 10:33:46 am
Culvert?

That's a dead end street isn't it?

No, hang on. It's a village in Buckinghamshire with a massive rail connected landfill.

 ;) :P ;D


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: martyjon on October 14, 2018, 10:37:59 am
When did “sinkhole” become the all embracing term used by journalists for any underground fault such as the aforesaid collapsed culvert?

Is “collapsed culvert” too difficult to understand?

Paul



That'll be at least a weeks work to repair.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bobm on October 14, 2018, 10:38:49 am
Sadly I suspect the correct nomenclature is lost on those waiting in the rain for rail replacement buses.

However I do despair at the constant dumbing down of our language on the basis we apparently can no longer cope with long words.  There is a balance to be struck however.   I saw a leaf-busting train called a "seasonal mitigation service" the other day.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 14, 2018, 10:39:58 am
When did “sinkhole” become the all embracing term used by journalists for any underground fault such as the aforesaid collapsed culvert?

Is “collapsed culvert” too difficult to understand?

Paul



That'll be at least a weeks work to repair.

No way.  In my days on the frontline that would have been filled with quick setting concrete to get the railway open as quickly as possible.  Oh, hang on a minute......


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: martyjon on October 14, 2018, 10:42:22 am
Culvert?

That's a dead end street isn't it?


Thats a cul-de-sac  ;D


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bignosemac on October 14, 2018, 10:51:26 am
Sadly I suspect the correct nomenclature is lost on those waiting in the rain for rail replacement buses.

However I do despair at the constant dumbing down of our language on the basis we apparently can no longer cope with long words.  There is a balance to be struck however.   I saw a leaf-busting train called a "seasonal mitigation service" the other day.

Come winter, if it's harsh, we'll have the "atmospherically frozen water vapour precipitate removal systems" put into service.

Snowploughs.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: grahame on October 14, 2018, 10:57:37 am
That'll be at least a weeks work to repair.

Although they're running buses Newton Abbott to Exeter St David's today ... might they do better from Heathfield (railway right beside the A38) to Tiverton Parkway?    Or am I being naughty in making such a comment?


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bobm on October 14, 2018, 10:59:33 am
The "hole" is reported to be 20ft deep with more heavy rain in the area.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: stuving on October 14, 2018, 11:14:09 am
The "hole" is reported to be 20ft deep with more heavy rain in the area.

A bit bigger than the one I had in my back garden, then. I was trying to remember what we - and especially the Thames Water man who came to look into it* - called that. "Hole", I think.

It was at least a proper drain-related hole, caused by infiltration into a leak in a sewer. Things falling into was not the problem, so much as what was nesting down there. I wouldn't like to meet what might crawl out of the one in that picture ...

*Mandatory "joke".


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bignosemac on October 14, 2018, 11:21:49 am
The "hole" is reported to be 20ft deep

How many of those will it take to fill the Albert Hall?*

*Mandatory "joke" #2.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 14, 2018, 11:37:18 am
Quote from the GWR Website:
Quote
Next to the estuary between Teignmouth and Newton Abbott, a collapsed culvert is in need of urgent repair preventing GWR and CrossCountry from operating train services between Exeter St David's and Newton Abbot for the rest of Sunday 14 October, with replacement road transport in operation.

Due to the location of the culvert, repairs can only be carried out whilst the tide is out.

Shame they don't know how to correctly spell one of their station names..... ::)


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: Clan Line on October 14, 2018, 01:09:34 pm
The "hole" is reported to be 20ft deep

How many of those will it take to fill the Albert Hall?*

*Mandatory "joke" #2.

Surely that should be "Olympic Swimming Pool" ?


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 14, 2018, 01:28:57 pm
The "hole" is reported to be 20ft deep

How many of those will it take to fill the Albert Hall?*

*Mandatory "joke" #2.

Isn't it Rood Ashton Hall now?


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 14, 2018, 01:29:08 pm
Devon Live running a live feed stating that there's been a known issue in the area for some time & Network Rail have done nothing about it.

See details timed at 1247;

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/live-gwr-dawlish-railway-line-2107169


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: broadgage on October 14, 2018, 01:41:07 pm
The "hole" is reported to be 20ft deep

How many of those will it take to fill the Albert Hall?*

*Mandatory "joke" #2.

Surely that should be "Olympic Swimming Pool" ?

It is not that big, probably several would fit into a double decker bus.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: Timmer on October 14, 2018, 01:44:40 pm
Once again this reopens the debate that either the old line via Okehampton/Tavistock reopen or a new line built. Gosh winter hasn’t even started yet and there are problems along this stretch of line.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bignosemac on October 14, 2018, 05:00:17 pm
Shame they don't know how to correctly spell one of their station names..... ::)

The BBC's online report of the issue also currently has Newton Abbot spelled with an additional 't'.  ::)


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bobm on October 14, 2018, 05:08:52 pm
They have had two attempts at spelling Royal Wootton Bassett and are still struggling....

https://rickshaw.bbcchildreninneed.co.uk/oneshow.html (https://rickshaw.bbcchildreninneed.co.uk/oneshow.html)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/cin1.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/cin.png)


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: martyjon on October 14, 2018, 05:28:39 pm
From JourneyCheck ;-

Cancellations to services between Liskeard and Looe.
 
Due to urgent repairs to the track between Liskeard and Looe the line is closed.

Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.


Customer Advice

The train that would normally be used to run this branch line is being used to run additional services between Newton Abbot and Truro because of urgent repairs to the main line following the collapse of a culvert beneath the track near Newton Abbot.

Further Information

An update will follow within the next 3 hours.

Last Updated:14/10/2018 17:16


Why oh why does conflicting information get put on JourneyCheck to confuse the already delayed passenger.



Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: martyjon on October 14, 2018, 05:32:11 pm
What happened to David Camerons pledge to bring forward a plan to ensure that the closure of the line should never happen again.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 14, 2018, 05:35:38 pm
David who?


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 14, 2018, 05:52:52 pm
Updated.....Network Rail have been aware of the situation for 4 years.....question for them is why has nothing been done?

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/real-reason-dawlish-mainline-closed-2108074


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: Lee on October 14, 2018, 06:14:50 pm
From JourneyCheck ;-

Cancellations to services between Liskeard and Looe.
 
Due to urgent repairs to the track between Liskeard and Looe the line is closed.

Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.


Customer Advice

The train that would normally be used to run this branch line is being used to run additional services between Newton Abbot and Truro because of urgent repairs to the main line following the collapse of a culvert beneath the track near Newton Abbot.

Further Information

An update will follow within the next 3 hours.

Last Updated:14/10/2018 17:16


Why oh why does conflicting information get put on JourneyCheck to confuse the already delayed passenger.

Alternatively...

On a rainy Sunday afternoon, I am entertaining myself with an old bound copy of volume 77 of the Railway Magazine with an article on the 1935 government loan guarantee scheme for the four major railway companies to the tune of £30M - a not inconsiderable sum in today’s monies.

Two schemes proposed by the GWR, neither of which saw the light of day.  I wonder what became of them but I am sure that the Second World War finished them off.  They were as follows (quoting pages 413 & 459):

“[A] new branchline to Looe which will divert much of the traffic from the existing Liskard-Looe line, even if it does not result in the abandonment of the latter. The new branch to Looe is designed to leave the main West of England line about 1 3/4 miles west of St. Germans station at what is known as Trerule Foot. It will be about 7 miles long; will traverse the Hessenford Valley; and will probably have three intermediate stations at Hessenford, Seaton Beach (near Downderry), and Millendreth. A new terminus station will be built on the high ground at East Looe. The train service will be worked by streamlined diesel railcars to and from Plymouth where connections will be given with the main line services. The journey between Plymouth and Looe will occupy 35 min., representing a saving of about half-an-hour as compared with the existing route.”

and,

“The only other new line contemplated is a G.W.R. 8 1/2 mile double-track deviation between Dawlish Warren and Newton Abbot. It will pass under Haldon Down, north of the existing sea coast route, and will be used for trains to and from the Torquay line, Plymouth, and Cornwall, not requiring to serve Dawlish or Teignmouth.”

I can’t see why there was the pressing need for the former...

...and now you know  ;D


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 14, 2018, 06:15:45 pm
Reported elsewhere that the line will reopen at 0500 tomorrow morning (Monday 15/10/2018).  There is an engineering train out there at the moment (@1815 on 14/10/2018).


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: a-driver on October 14, 2018, 06:46:24 pm
Updated.....Network Rail have been aware of the situation for 4 years.....question for them is why has nothing been done?

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/real-reason-dawlish-mainline-closed-2108074

Because it’s not London.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: LiskeardRich on October 14, 2018, 07:49:33 pm
Code black in place... unable to source adequate road vehicles for replacement. A do not travel advise has been put in place.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 14, 2018, 07:58:02 pm
Just in case anybody is wondering what Code Black is: https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/travel-updates/our-disruption-plan/pidd-plan-gwrd-final.pdf


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bradshaw on October 14, 2018, 08:10:51 pm
According to Network Rail Western Twitter feed work starts at 21.00 tonight.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: grahame on October 14, 2018, 08:18:56 pm
Just in case anybody is wondering what Code Black is: https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/travel-updates/our-disruption-plan/pidd-plan-gwrd-final.pdf

I think we can even quote usefully

Quote
Disruption thresholds

To ensure that we provide appropriate support to our customers and colleagues, we have a number of thresholds for disruption based on how the service is operating.

Green the service is operating normally or with a minimal number of minor delays

Yellow there is moderate disruption but customers are able to continue their journeys, albeit with some delay

Red the service has (or is expected to) deteriorated to a level where customers are experiencing significant delay to their journeys and we are providing alternative transport, tickets can be accepted on other Train Operators services or we are diverting trains via alternative routes

Black we advise customers to avoid travelling as we cannot guarantee they will be able to reach their destination (an example of this could be a major flooding incident)

When disruption thresholds are triggered, we advise our colleagues via our internal messaging system.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 14, 2018, 08:24:02 pm
Code black in place... unable to source adequate road vehicles for replacement. A do not travel advise has been put in place.

.......what about people already in transit?


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: martyjon on October 14, 2018, 08:26:28 pm
Just in case anybody is wondering what Code Black is: https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/travel-updates/our-disruption-plan/pidd-plan-gwrd-final.pdf

This is an old document and from recent reported incidents I am sceptical whether the actions GWR committed to in that document ever materialises or whether the deployments mentioned actually take place or whether its a printers error and failed to include in the "deployment to stations" statement the word "messrooms" was omitted after the word "stations" in view of the numerous comments on this forum regarding frontline staff evaporating at the first sign of disruption.

Old document, well read it and find the statement ;-

In 2015/2016, customers will also benefit ....


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 14, 2018, 08:59:04 pm
Thanks Grahame.  I did attempt to copy that bit into my post but I couldn't get the colours to copy over.  Must be me then.....


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: LiskeardRich on October 14, 2018, 09:02:36 pm
Code black in place... unable to source adequate road vehicles for replacement. A do not travel advise has been put in place.

.......what about people already in transit?

I’m not sure. My friend became aware of the Don’t Travel instruction, whilst changing trains at Westbury on a Portsmouth to Torquay,


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: grahame on October 14, 2018, 09:04:43 pm
Thanks Grahame.  I did attempt to copy that bit into my post but I couldn't get the colours to copy over.  Must be me then.....

You - PLEASE - keep giving me the clever bits about signalling and dynamic loops, and I'll do the colour stuff.  

If you quote my article, you'l see the tags


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 14, 2018, 09:08:19 pm
Thanks Grahame.  I did attempt to copy that bit into my post but I couldn't get the colours to copy over.  Must be me then.....

You - PLEASE - keep giving me the clever bits about signalling and dynamic loops, and I'll do the colour stuff.  

If you quote my article, you'l see the tags

Ha ha. GLOW. I like that one!  Thats a new one on me.  Now, if we were talking mechanical signalbox lever colours or colourlight signals I'd be quite at home......(or should it be distant) ::)


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: Lee on October 14, 2018, 09:09:48 pm
In other news, the search for a permanent upgraded coffee on IET catering trolleys may now be over...

(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/11885310_1641644502777841_8524678778197273639_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&oh=41a4005fdb9b177b38e8f42bec49b5ad&oe=5C499043)


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: bobm on October 14, 2018, 09:23:11 pm
Tonight’s up sleeper - which was due to start at Plymouth because of the signalling work in Cornwall - has been cancelled.


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: TonyK on October 14, 2018, 11:28:29 pm
Updated.....Network Rail have been aware of the situation for 4 years.....question for them is why has nothing been done?

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/real-reason-dawlish-mainline-closed-2108074

Because it’s not London.

And just possibly because, as it would have needed the line to be closed in any case, why not wait until nature does the preliminary demolition work for you?


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 15, 2018, 05:01:53 am
Updated.....Network Rail have been aware of the situation for 4 years.....question for them is why has nothing been done?

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/real-reason-dawlish-mainline-closed-2108074

Because it’s not London.

And just possibly because, as it would have needed the line to be closed in any case, why not wait until nature does the preliminary demolition work for you?

"Building a Greater West" 🤔


Title: Re: Sinkhole at Newton Abbot - main line closed 14/10/18
Post by: plymothian on October 15, 2018, 06:23:23 am
Line was handed back early hours of this morning with a 20mph speed limit.



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