Great Western Coffee Shop

Clearly displayed 17.03 local advertised on 15A for Ealing Broadway (aka Paddington). Hundreds waiting for it.

A train turned up - however the display then changed and said that it was the 17.05 to Redhill - many got on thinking it was for London. No staff corrected the info. This left full at 17.08.

No sign of the 17.03 though which had disappeared from the displays.

Then staff said that this was now approaching 15A - it wasn't.

Staff then said that it was waiting on 13A. Hundreds traipsed over to 13. The staff there said that this was actually the 17.38 to Ealing Broadway.

We all traipsed back to 15A. Still no train there.

The staff there then said that the 17.03 was now on 12. Over the bridge we all went yet again. No train was there.

Then just like magic the 17.03 turned up on 12 but 15 minutes late. The display still said that it was due on 15A.

But what's the point of having staff who haven't a clue which platforms trains are departing from? Pathetic.

Yet another example of GWR’s appalling Customer Information systems, many other examples of which have popped up under other topics.   It’s all down to GWR’s senior management who, despite knowing the consequences, do not provide the resources to ensure that the screens provide accurate and timely information.   

Don’t blame the platform staff, they don’t get information any more than the passengers do.

Sounds a bit like musical platforms.

And what were route control at Swindon telling them, they are the ones in the know.

To an extent although the final decision is down to the signaller at Didcot who sets the route.

I Always thought the TVSC Contacted Swindon to tell them what they are doing.

Everyday, a plan is produced which details which platform every train will use for that 24 hour period.  As far as possible they stick to that plan.  All this information is loaded into CIS screens.

When disruption occurs the signallers will try to get trains through the station as quickly as possible.  They can have a train sat at a signal outside the station and the first station staff will know of a platform change is when the signaller sets the route.  It’s not physically possible to give advance information to station staff, doing so would just cause bigger delays.

Station staff have access to signalling maps of the station and it’s approaches.  These show individual train headcodes.  Sometimes you can sit and watch the signaller changes these headcodes when they are provided the information from Swindon, basically they’re juggling trains. 

Whilst it may seem appalling, what they are actually doing is getting trains moving, and as quickly as possible.  As a result, some decisions will be last minute.  It’s pretty much the same any most major locations.  Where I work now, if there’s disruption you look at the signalling maps to know what platform to go to.  As soon as the headcodes moves to occupy a platform the information screens update automatically.

Sorry but does,nt seem to work like that in Gloucester though, When a platform change is made, the platform staff seem to always do the moving, they just contact signalman to ask permission, then they contact cis and they manually change the screens. If the signaller puts a train into platform 4, that was booked on 2, and goes into 4 the screen won,t change, the staff have to phone cis and ask for an update manually.

Gloucester doesn’t have the same level of traffic as somewhere like Reading though. Gloucester will probably be controlled by one signaller and has a bit of flexibility when it comes to platforming services, Reading will also be controlled by one or two signallers. Replatforming something at Reading will, more than likely, have a knock on effect tonothwe services.
There’s only so much a signaller can do before they become overloaded 

Due to unscheduled operational 'incidents' - ranging from train faults and staff out of hours through to platform delays due to slow-load passengers - there will always be times when late platform changes happen, as a better option than holding up services as they wait for the originally planned platform.  I suspect we would all prefer the platform switch to serious delays.

The issue comes in informing the passengers - especially where there's a last-miunute decision.  I was at Swindon last Saturday evening for just over an hour, and there were sufficient main line delays to make the whole thing of which train was at which platform a bit of a lottery.  However, the boards were being reasonably updated and a free-jacked customer host was referring to them and helping passengers; if you're looking for Bristol Parkway, you need to know it's the Swansea train, for example. No big backlog of people appearing to need help, and assuming that the dateline and platform 4 desk were being equally helpful, just about as good as could have been down as far as the staff members and boards are concerned.  I did wonder if some sort of handheld device might have helped the green jacket rather than having to constantly check the passenger screen - but perhaps that method works for her.

The "17:36 for Westbury" was parked in the bay - 2 car 158, switched off and locked -  and the new waiting room filled.  At 17:33, a change of platform was announced to platform 3 (!) and we all moved; another 2 car 158 (SWR colours) pulled in - 17:34.  A very quick turn around and back off in the other direction at 17:38.  But I noted that everyone on platform 2 HAD made their way to the alternative train, and furthermore an on train announcement that "This is the Westbury train calling at ... and NOT the Gloucester and Cheltenham service" provided a safety net the other way.  I did not see any rapid exits from the train at this announcement, so I think everyone had got the message anyway.

Going back to the original query / comment in this thread, was there an announcement in the Gatwick train which had come in to the platform where the London was expected to the effect of where it was headed, before it actually closed its doors?  If so, then I'm going to suggest we may be looking at a bit of a storm in a teacup here, with alternatives available perhaps leading to significant holdups if trains waited for their original platforms.

Of course, so much of the solution would be for us to get back to a much more reliable railway where last minute changes shrink away to being very, very rare events.

Just to record what the data feeds (via RTT and OTT) have for those trains:

2O49 17:04 to Redhill departed on time. Booked platform 5 but actual platform not recorded. I thought switching trains from 4-6 over to 12-15 wasn't a problem, but there may be some bits of the underlying system that think these are still different stations!

2P66 17:03 Didcot to Paddington, booked P15 but departed P12 17:07 (4L) and ran a few minutes late to PAD.

2P67 17:18 to Paddington departed on time from P13 as booked.

I imagine that for most people 2P66 15 minutes late and 2P67 are very hard to tell apart - though if you want one of the smaller stations called at by one but not both the difference matters!

There are trains (and even more stock movements) that are not recorded on those feeds, but if 2P66 was clocked all the way down its route no more than 4L it can't have departed 15L!

I've had a look at Open Rail Live Railway Data (http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk). It seems to have two separate entries for Reading - 'RDNGSTN RDG Reading' and 'RDNG4AB RDZ Reading Platforms 4A/4B'. Searching for the former doesn't give any information for platforms 4-6 but the latter only gives information for those three. (RTT doesn't recognise 'RDZ' as a location.)

Here's the record for 2O49 on Saturday: http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/13067093/01/12/18 (http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/13067093/01/12/18)

The entry for the departure of the train is timed at 02/12/18 00:56:01 which is maybe some sort of default as presumably the system didn't record it? Otherwise the first 'normal' entry is timed at 01/12/18 17:06:29 when it was 1 late at Reading Spur Junction.

Perhaps I was a bit too offhand in what I said there. I know the reporting system does still have a separate reporting identity for Reading Southern, but the question is about timetable changes.

Based on my observations (and I'm certainly not an expert on the data systems), the reports we see are of timetabled movements and the actual reports that can be matched with them. If a train diverts to a new route, with different stations on it, then ideally its timetable entry is replaced by a new one shown as "STP". Then its progress can be shown against that.

If the change happens too late for that, the old timetabled train is shown with no reports against it, and the unmatched reports just vanish. But platform changes within a station can be made without an STP entry, and show up in the feeds and can be identified as "not as booked". The question at Reading is whether this can be done between the two bits of station, or whether actual movements in its new platform only show in the record if there was an STP entry for them.

If that's the case, I'd not noticed it before - but I can't say that is unlikely!

Yes, I Think the people for Gloucester would of probably been waiting on Platform 1, At that time the train comes from Paddington.

Reading has more platforms than Paddington, so should have a P/A announcer.

The staff are not useless - just the IT specifiers who produced the faulty CIS displays.

Redingensian,

OTC

Weired, Do you not have an automated system to announce trains, like in Swindon. I also thought Reading would of had excellent displays and they worked.

The best station I know for announcing is Bristol TM, nice, loud and clear.

When I read "useless staff" in a title I think of something like ((this)) (https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/gwr-webb-thompson-single-line-electric-train-staff-2017nov-0126.html) ... though I suppose that is more like useless through redundancy ...

There's a number of relevant issues-

1. The problem at Reading now we have our new higher overbridge is that it's quite a treck back and forth between island platforms (ie - 14/5 to 12/3) - especially on the "B" (west) side where there are no down escalators.

2.  From the track diagram on Open Rail live, the final point/signal at which trains can be switched from the tracks into these four platforms looks quite close to the east end of the station.

3 . What seems to be missing is some kind of "interlock" between the system operating the points and the station passenger information systems - surely now we are getting real time train information on our smartphones something can be done about this?

4.

Yes we have automated announcements and (sometimes) proactive station announcers who take care to let people know what is happening - but this seems to depend upon which staff happen to be on duty at the time. The new signage (fixed and electronic) is poor - badly positioned, insufficient in size and (like elsewhere) dependent upon whatever system sits behind them. By far the best signage is that above the information desk in Brunel Arcade - the part of the station not  renewed during the recent reconstruction! The next best are the screens in the waiting rooms - the rest on the platforms and overbridge are simply not up to the job. Had I been able to make the Rail Future event last month I was contemplating offering a tour of the station to highlight the issue!

5. Having said all that, GW should take steps to mitigate problems at this their busiest interchange station, whether the result is passengers leaving on the wrong train or simply the inconvenience (especially if you are elderly/carrying luggage, even with the lifts) of several trips up and down from the platforms. Should not someone keep an eye on developing situations likely to cause switching of platforms, issue suitable announcements (such as suggesting that passengers stay on the overbridge until a platform is confirmed - some more seats there would be welcome!) and then ensuring that when a platform is selected the information is given to passengers and sufficient time is given to enable them to get to their train?

Sad to report that I have experienced this a couple of times at Temple Meads in the past few weeks, two weeks ago I was on platform 6 waiting for a service to Weston, the train clearly pulled into 12, no update on any of the screens - it was only that I was checking the train through one of the links someone had previously posted on here that I twigged the service was on the "wrong" platform.
Pointing it out to a member of platform staff, they then radioed the PA guy who made the correction announcements

I Find It quite unusual that you experienced problems at BTM, I have always had no problems at Bristol, There never were any problems when I visited there and Bristol panel still controlled the signalling, When a train got moved, The departure screen updated, Followed by an announcement, then everbody moved to that platform. I was there mostly in the days of first great western,Glad to get into coach D, and watch things on tv. Why did they do away with the entertainment coaches.

Anymore problems at Reading, might be tomorrow with new timetables.


Just singing to the giant crumpet show advert. Then spills Horlicks.

Just to clarify for those that may not be aware.

New timetable for SWR and Cross Country started today (9th December).
New timetable for GWR starts 1st Jan.

Except that some GWR changes *did* almost happen today.  Locally to us, the earliest Sunday train to Swindon is move 8 minutes earlier and it starts back from Warminster ... hope no-one missed it, except that old chestnut "lack of a driver" caused it to be cancelled.

I have ... mixed feelings about superbly informed social media staff going off and driving trains ... there are some good folks around at the moment, but it's not like those fantastic pioneering days.  On the other hand, there is clearly still a driver shortage ...

There are some bizarre subtleties in the public TT flowing from this. For instance, in Table 126, the down 1821 from Paddington to Hereford (till the end of December) becomes the 1822 on 31 December, but every single other timing is unchanged. So two columns are needed (both with the dreaded squiggly line), when a "safe side failure" would just have advertised it as 1821 throughout.

I think sometimes, Sundays feels like the timetable changes every week what with the various engineering works. I only drive in LTV land at the mo, so unfortunately don't go west of Didcot/Bedwyn.

Admittedly it was only a minute, but the 1553 GWR service from Temple Meads to Taunton is now 1552 ??

Signs of some listening to passengers (or reading this thread)

1 - This morning, North Downs/SWR trains halted for a while by points problem at Wokingham. No staff in evidence around platforms 4-6, and announcements only mentioned Waterloo passengers might try via Paddington. I drifted back to platforms 1- 3 to take the Basingstoke/Woking/Guildford zigzag route. Noting a huddle of staff on the gateline, I walked over and suggested perhaps something might be announced for all those going to Gatwick, Guildford, Bracknell etc. I was told they needed Network Rail's approval to do so (?). However about 5 minutes later - announcements with guidance for all such destinations (albeit not loud enough....)

2 - This evening on the way back, the 18-57 departure form Reading to Didcot stopped over 20 minutes at Twyford with a fault, then evacuated on Platform 12 and following train terminating at Reading occupied platform 13. No platform allocated for delayed next stopper to Didcot (usually allocated to 12) on signs, but "manual" announcement, this time audible, to stay on overbridge until platform known!  When it arrived, reasonable time allowed to board.

Is this a sign of better practice being adopted?

This kind of incident is exactly why many of the more savvy passengers have started using the signalling diagram screens on the platforms rather than the CIS screens - especially later in the evening, when very-last-minute platform changes appear to be the norm.

That way, by seeing the white route line appear, you find out before even the platform staff (unless they are standing next to you looking at it!) and can get a head start on the crowd.

Can be amusing sometimes trying to predict what they will do when the advertised platform is very clearly already occupied.... (One night I was very amused to see the obviously broken-down train blocking the platform designated as "BUST" instead of by its normal code number!)

Those screens are exceedingly useful in helping inform passengers who have some base knowledge of what's going on.  I don't have a picture of the Reading one where this thread started ... here's part of the Bristol Parkway one.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/staffbank.jpg)

Well that does not look right, all the signals appear red, Some other things on it, does,nt seem to have any train codes on.

All information on them could be added to OpenTrainTimes maps (and others with the data licence), though the Reading map hasn’t got anything other than signal aspects displayed yet (save for Platforms 4,5 and 6).  Then you’d be able to watch everything unfolding from your phone!

The ones in Gloucester show some route lines in white and also train codes, but the signals show as grey dots, how odd?.

Correct at the time ... picture taken on 1st December, when Filton Bank was closed for engineering works and I was changing trains at Bristol Parkway, having arrived from a local station between Newport and Parkway on a train that was carrying on to Gloucester, and changing onto a London train.

Oh, no wonder then?.

Comparing this picture with the opentraintimes map, a set of points are missing along with others in wrong place, Has anyone else noticed.

Aztec West?  ;)

The one atGloucester isn’t really used by staff, however I do like looking at it to track real-time information. I am also a victim of impatience, as soon as the train stops at a signal I get out OTT  ;)

I have cottoned onto these recently - they seem to be on most platforms, on the side of one of the escalators on the high number platforms and another at the west end of platforms 4-6.

They are useful, but often out of action and sometimes trains "go missing" on them. It would be nice if they were larger and better positioned for public use in more prominent places.

Are there any recommendations for a link to signalling diagram screens? I'm aware of the Open Train Times site. Is this the most recommend?

Not yet possible ...

It’s maps are of the highest quality IMHO and have details often not shown on other sites (aspects, routes, track occupation, level crossing status etc.), but by no means all maps that could have all those features do have them, and nationwide coverage isn’t as comprehensive as some others.

Many thanks for that II. If I may be so bold, are there also sites that replicate the platform arrivals and departures screens?

Things like [[this]] (http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/rendercis.asp?file=3001E6.xml) - capture attached?

Link to Iris Tiger is listed at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1761.0 - http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/

More a case of useless CIS at Reading this afternoon.

Before hopping on my train home (16:32), I was on the upper level where the display for P9 was touting the 08:54 to Hereford. Now that may have been the next one, on Monday, but I'd jump to he same conclusion as you - that it had frozen this morning and no-one had fixed it. There was not even any extra help, like a sign or staff member there, or extra words in announcements such as "ignore the display at the top of the stairs for P9".

Obviously that would matter quite a lot on P9 (less so on P10 or P11), since its trains go to a wide variety of places. As it happens, just then the next train was for Slough and Paddington - the first time I've seen P9 used in the reverse direction. If you wanted the fast train to Slough a bit of help finding it in such an unlikely place would have been welcome.

P10 and p11 were both in use at the time, and it (1P57 from oxford) crossed to the Up Main, and then to the Up Relief through Twyford P4 but was back on the Up Main and P3 at Slough. I can't see why it didn't stay on the Up Main as pathed, since nothing passed it. All this swapping about confused some online displays at the time, and at least one still is.

What sort of staff do they have in Reading?. Why did they not just switch it off for 30 seconds and back on, it would of rebooted and probably then alright. I remember at Gloucester, the one on platform 1 crashed, Showing a 12:42 to Frome. Anyway switched it off, then on, after a few startup messages it showed 15:37 Great Malvern. Been alright since, Mind you we did just have a thunderstorm at lunchtime that day.

Note: If the platform staff had phoned cis at swindon,they can also reboot the whole system in a station.