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Journey by Journey => Bristol (WECA) Commuters => Topic started by: grahame on January 22, 2019, 18:39:21



Title: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: grahame on January 22, 2019, 18:39:21
I am totally in support of alerting people to look out for and help vulnerable children

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/btm-under_1.jpg)

But I wonder if advertising it on just about every poster board in the subway at Temple Meads (16 of them?) is a tiny bit over the top

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/btm-under_2.jpg)

I guess the fact I've mentioned it here means the large number of posters does mean it's more noticed than normal.

Since I was last at Temple Meads and noticed, the advertising / information boards - the "A to Z" - has gone from the subway. They were on these pillars

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/btm-under_3.jpg)

Perhaps not too many people use the "A to Z" these days, but from Temple Meads to Melksham they were fantastically useful, telling us whether to travel via Chippenham or via Trowbridge at any particular time of day.

For the record, from http://www.mrug.org.uk/bristolfares.html

Quote
On Monday to Friday ... catch trains from Bristol Temple Meads at 05:30, 05:44, 06:48, 08:30, 09:07, 10:30, 10:47, 11:22, 12:30, 13:00, 13:22, 15:00, 15:22, 17:00, 17:49, 18:30, 18:51 or 19:30. Journey time between 45 minutes and 1 hour and 15 minutes. All of these trains except the 05:44 also call at Bath Spa 12 to 15 minutes later.

On Saturday ... catch trains frm Bristol Temple Meads at 06:49, 07:30, 08:51, 09:30, 10:49, 11:30, 12:51, 14:30, 15:51, 17:30, 17:49, 19:30 or 20:40. All of these trains also call at Bath Spa 12 to 15 minutes later.

On Sunday ... catch trains from Bristol Temple Meads at 08:53, 09:25, 10:53, 11:10, 13:25, 14:53, 16:15, 17:25, 18:10, 18:45 or 19:25. All of these trains also call at Bath Spa 12 to 15 minutes later.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: eightonedee on January 22, 2019, 19:25:35
Quite apart from the loss of the useful "A to Z"s - two other questions occur to me-

1 - Why are they using a cartoon Stephen Fry in this campaign?

2 - How does this match up with the never-ending series of GW posters about five unaccompanied children running riot around their area?


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: johnneyw on January 22, 2019, 19:33:15
I noticed the A-Z was missing too. That was last week, Thurs or Fri. I only noticed because I wanted to check if the Severn Beach train was stopping at Lidl, sorry, Lawrence Hill Station. No idea if they will be back. Perhaps the station's management did not want to encourage people standing in the concourse?


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 22, 2019, 19:43:56
1 - Why are they using a cartoon Stephen Fry in this campaign?
I was thinking "I haven't noticed these posters" but then this comment reminded me that I have, and had the exact same thought. However, I definitely hadn't noticed that they were everywhere! (Was last there Saturday and in a bit of a hurry though.) I do remember noticing last summer (I think it was) all the adverts above the urinals in the subway toilets were an anti-FGM campaign. Perhaps it's the best/only way to get public information campaigns noticed above the noise of commercial advertising?


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Merthyr Imp on January 22, 2019, 22:17:38
Quite apart from the loss of the useful "A to Z"s - two other questions occur to me-

1 - Why are they using a cartoon Stephen Fry in this campaign?


He's the patron of a relevant charity:

https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/latest-news/706-stephen-fry-leads-campaign-to-make-every-second-count-when-a-child-is-reported-missing.html


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Phantom on January 23, 2019, 10:01:47
As a daily commuter through Temple Meads, I am still trying to figure out what the ad is actually promoting
It mentions sending a text "To bring a child home", but I have no idea how or what this process is?

I thought this thread was going to be about the new signage that has popped up in the subway.
Have a look out for the new "Lost Property" sign next to WH Smith in the subway, whoever designed that has clearly done it off measurements and never looked at the space as the text is hidden by the frontage of WHS


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: grahame on January 23, 2019, 10:11:21
As a daily commuter through Temple Meads, I am still trying to figure out what the ad is actually promoting
It mentions sending a text "To bring a child home", but I have no idea how or what this process is?

Not exactly clear to me either.  From one of the links above, I explored and found this from 2016:

Quote
Stephen Fry is urging members of the public to help save the lives of high risk missing children as part of a two-week long national campaign launching today. People are asked to register for free Child Rescue Alerts, activated when a child has gone missing and police believe their life is in imminent danger.

So ... you register your phone, a child goes missing in your area and you and everyone else registered gets an alert to keep an eye out.  Rather like Dog Lost - http://www.doglost.co.uk - but I suspect that the Children site can't be as open with the data because of privacy.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: grahame on January 23, 2019, 10:13:50
I thought this thread was going to be about the new signage that has popped up in the subway.
Have a look out for the new "Lost Property" sign next to WH Smith in the subway, whoever designed that has clearly done it off measurements and never looked at the space as the text is hidden by the frontage of WHS

Pinging that back up as I'm conscious I only addressed half of your post.  I passed very quickly though part of the Subway Monday and didn't notice / look at other signage changes.  Over to others to comment.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Phantom on January 24, 2019, 12:07:00
On the way through the subway this morning I noticed each pillar now has a 6 foot high electronic advertising screen added to it, looks a mess before they are even turned on


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: grahame on January 24, 2019, 13:03:09
On the way through the subway this morning I noticed each pillar now has a 6 foot high electronic advertising screen added to it, looks a mess before they are even turned on

Are you sure they are all going to be advertising screens? Would it not make sense to have touch screen enquiry boards - sort of A to Z replacement.

Tap in your destination station ... and the train services to there are displayed.   An easy way to find out "what is the next train to Lawrence Hill" or "where do I change for Melksham".  Tied in to a real time database, such a facility would help at times of disruption and during engineering works.  ...  Or is there such a system somewhere else at Temple Meads??


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Phantom on January 24, 2019, 15:45:21
I would be surprised if they were any kind of information point, they are the same design as the electronic advertising you see at bus stops


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Red Squirrel on January 24, 2019, 17:16:53
Planning application 17/01320/LA (search for it by reference at https://www.bristol.gov.uk/planning-and-building-regulations/look-at-and-track-planning-applications ) covers this. It is part of an overall strategy to improve wayfinding and generally tidy up advertising at Temple Meads. One thing I don't recognise is the 'A-Z' features that grahame mentions.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: grahame on January 24, 2019, 19:33:13
I have gone to that planning application and found before picture showing the A to Z and after picture showing what looks like a pure advert panel in the same place.  My suggestion than just one of the panels should be a next Interactive train with input technology system (Nitwits) was tongue in cheek; perfectly possible with the technology that's available, but I suspect the jingle of pennies from the advertising revenue outweighed the provision of an equivalent to the very useful information that was there.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 24, 2019, 21:14:08
I don't recall the A-Z being in the subway either. There used to be one in the main entrance hall area, near the screens; not sure if it's still there.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: johnneyw on January 24, 2019, 21:38:12
I don't recall the A-Z being in the subway either. There used to be one in the main entrance hall area, near the screens; not sure if it's still there.

There was definitely one in the subway which I would sometimes refer to. I remember it as being occasionally  unreliable/out of date for some of the local services so I started to use it less.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Red Squirrel on January 24, 2019, 23:13:06
I have gone to that planning application and found before picture showing the A to Z and after picture showing what looks like a pure advert panel in the same place.  My suggestion than just one of the panels should be a next Interactive train with input technology system (Nitwits) was tongue in cheek; perfectly possible with the technology that's available, but I suspect the jingle of pennies from the advertising revenue outweighed the provision of an equivalent to the very useful information that was there.

Well... hmm. Overall to me it looks like they've removed quite a lot of advertising, and are making wayfinding easier by removing clutter.

It may seem hard to believe, but I don't actually know what this 'A to Z' thing is - is it something to do with printed timetables, like they used to have in the olden days?


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: grahame on January 24, 2019, 23:28:10
It may seem hard to believe, but I don't actually know what this 'A to Z' thing is - is it something to do with printed timetables, like they used to have in the olden days?

It's the sheet that lists the common destinations from the station it's displayed at, and trains to them with where to change, etc. here's an example from Melksham telling you how to get to Taunton (in case you want to take pictures!)

(http://www.passenger.chat/a2z.png)

Especially useful for local stations so that passengers arriving on long distance journeys, perhaps a bit later or earlier than intended, can find their next service home.  If it were electronic and real time it would be fabulous.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 25, 2019, 10:17:39
I have gone to that planning application and found before picture showing the A to Z and after picture showing what looks like a pure advert panel in the same place.  My suggestion than just one of the panels should be a next Interactive train with input technology system (Nitwits) was tongue in cheek; perfectly possible with the technology that's available, but I suspect the jingle of pennies from the advertising revenue outweighed the provision of an equivalent to the very useful information that was there.

Well... hmm. Overall to me it looks like they've removed quite a lot of advertising, and are making wayfinding easier by removing clutter.
What have they removed? Looking at the before and after (or rather, the now and future) photos attached to Grahame's reply #12, I see the same amount of advertising on the boards attached to the walls and additional LED advertising screens on the central pillars.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Red Squirrel on January 25, 2019, 10:30:27
What have they removed? Looking at the before and after (or rather, the now and future) photos attached to Grahame's reply #12, I see the same amount of advertising on the boards attached to the walls and additional LED advertising screens on the central pillars.

If you look at the document 'Subway Proposals', in the planning application you will see; lots of bits and pieces. In some places it is subtle, with commercial advertising being replaced with NR information.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: grahame on January 25, 2019, 11:03:27
What have they removed? Looking at the before and after (or rather, the now and future) photos attached to Grahame's reply #12, I see the same amount of advertising on the boards attached to the walls and additional LED advertising screens on the central pillars.

Prior to changes

Reply no. 12 shows - on the centre columns - unilluminated (so not very clear) boards on the centre pillars - they were on 4 sides of at least 2 pillars, so a total of eight boards.   Most of those board covered departure lists, with notes telling you where to change, to common destinations from Temple Meads.   A long list indeed - so the information spread over (I think) six boards.

Personal use ... arriving at Bristol Temple Meads, typically off a long distance journey from the Midlands or north, and wanting to find my next train to Melksham - boards told me which train to catch / where to change. It might have been a London train via Chippenham, or a train to or via Westbury, and the only other way to get such information apart from online was to ask a member of staff some of whom, however, gave incorrect answers and would leave you stranded at Chippenham or Trowbridge for long periods.

Based on that personal experience - very useful for passengers transferring on to intermediate stations which were not served by every train - so passengers for places such as Severn Tunnel Junction, Weston Milton, St Andrews Road, Dilton Marsh, Avoncliff, Lawrence Hill, Stapleton Road could easily locate their next direct train or connection.

Current

Check on line or ask, I suppose ... which if you've just arrived on a late-running or an otherwise unplanned ahead trip, can take longer than you have ... the other day when I took that picture I happened to know, but I had 8 minutes between arriving at Temple Meads from Birmingham and leaving on the Chippenham train ...

Future

Sadly, looks like the adverts replace the useful facility.  I note comment that there may still be an A to Z outside the barrier, and the enquiry place between platforms 3 and 4 may (or may not) provide you with the right answers if you pop in there to ask.

I would love to see a simple web page / interactive display.  From the rail feeds already there on mobiles, really not a big task. simple local network map - click on your desired destination and up comes an A to Z style display for that one station.  And it could be so much better than the old display - telling you the platform allocated today, allowing for disruption, and taking just one panel up where the old posters took 6.

What have they removed? Looking at the before and after (or rather, the now and future) photos attached to Grahame's reply #12, I see the same amount of advertising on the boards attached to the walls and additional LED advertising screens on the central pillars.

If you look at the document 'Subway Proposals', in the planning application you will see; lots of bits and pieces. In some places it is subtle, with commercial advertising being replaced with NR information.


Indeed - but still an information gap added ...


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 25, 2019, 11:26:18
Thinking about it, aren't there A-Z boards on the platforms? I think there used to be though perhaps it was only the higher-numbered platforms.

Personally I wouldn't mind extra advertising on the central pillars if it was posters. What I dislike are the LED advertising screens (everywhere, not just in stations). I find them horribly distracting (well duh, that's their purpose!) and visually disturbing.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: martyjon on January 25, 2019, 13:52:45
There were a set of A - Z boards adorning an area on Platform 7 between the two sets of stairs.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: Phantom on January 25, 2019, 14:03:45
There were a set of A - Z boards adorning an area on Platform 7 between the two sets of stairs.

Now gone - come to think of it I can't say these posters are up anywhere at the station now?

I was intending to take some pictures this morning but arrived in a rush on platform 3
Going home via Parson Street later tonight


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: MVR S&T on January 26, 2019, 00:06:27
In my experiene, most signs, adverstising, where to get your train, etc is lost on the majority of folks, including me, all you need is a staffed gateline, where each person, who isnt sure, can ask, but of course clear platform signs from then on are important.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: grahame on January 26, 2019, 07:26:53
In my experiene, most signs, adverstising, where to get your train, etc is lost on the majority of folks, including me, all you need is a staffed gateline, where each person, who isnt sure, can ask, but of course clear platform signs from then on are important.


Britsol Temple Meads ...  11,350,000 entrances and exits in the lastest figures, amd 1,477,000 interchanges. There is much to be said for staff at the gateline who can provide information about your departing train, whether you've arrived from outside the station or off another train.  And there is much truth in comments that (other) existing/previous "when and where is my train" data has been less thn ideal.

I could end up writing a .... very .... long follow up here looking at the who business of signposting and informing interchange and occasional passengerts through the place - and indeed genearliasing it to other stations.  I have found the staff at Temple Meads (at the manned ticket barriers and elsewhere) polite and wanting to be helpful - but too frequently too busy to help, not providing the correct information, or on one occasions changing the request into a ticket inspection with a spurious excuse. And if you arrive somewhere between 5 and 15, do you really want to go all the way to 3 to find out?

As a paeenger ... let me run through some scenarios ... for arrival at a station and for interchange, See how that fits with what currently happens ... specify what would be ideal,   I reaally hope some professional has done this, made a study, and that provision is being updated to provides us with a systen that works well for us as passengers, yet is econimic to provide. 

Some ideas

* Arriving from outside the station at a gated station.   
- If I'm buying my ticket (machine or desk), be told the next train times, pletforms, headline destination and changes.
- As I go through the gates, not just a green light, but flash up "Pleaform 15, 12:30".

* Arriving on another train (do you ever get off and wonder where to go next?)
- Uniform and standing out "onward journey" inteactive screene - scan you ticket for ongoing platform, headline destination, time, any more changes
- Ability to enter desitination (useful if, for example, at middle station on season or on rover or stoppig short)

Very much the same technology to advise at ticket machine, barriers and on platform - same technology really useful at open stations, and unstaffed stations too ... you seem to have its use everywhere from Birmingham New Street to Dilton Marsh! Sounds perfectly do-able too ... or have I missed something?


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: martyjon on January 26, 2019, 09:05:02
.... or have I missed something?

COST  ::)


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: grahame on January 26, 2019, 21:13:31
.... or have I missed something?

COST  ::)

Oh yes ... it would cost a fortune to develop the system, specialist hardware and create and maintain a data flows.

Unless ...  http://www.passenger.chat/destinations.html ....  ;D ;D


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: grahame on January 27, 2019, 14:03:23
A further bit of work on the presentation of publicly available data ... dedicated to those people who arrive at an interchange stations and have to start hunting around for their onward local train ... perhaps not knowing which local trains call at some of the limited stop stations, what their final destinations might be, and what platform they're at today!

http://www.mrug.org.uk/bri.html

It's work in progress at the moment ... but staring to reveal a useful cut on the info.


Title: Re: Signage in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads
Post by: eXPassenger on January 27, 2019, 14:35:16
A very nice use of public data.  Well done.



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