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Journey by Journey => Portsmouth to Cardiff => Topic started by: Clan Line on April 01, 2019, 18:51:19



Title: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Clan Line on April 01, 2019, 18:51:19
Just where are all these 5 car trains, with all the extra seats, that we have been promised since time immemorial ?   I have been a regular passenger/visitor at Warminster station over the last few weeks, I have not seen a single 5 car train. They seem to be as rare as rocking horse manure - even on CISS.

To make it even worse there is now totally confusing information both on platform CISS and painted on the platforms. We have "zones" which are meaningless with 3 car (or less) trains. Passengers are told that 3 car trains will stop in Zones 2 to 4 - no one seems to have told the drivers - they, quite correctly, still stop at the "3 car stop" sign...........the train then doesn't line up with the "zones" !!  CISS also informs us where to stand for 1st Class .....

To round it off there is yet even more verbal diarrhoea issuing from the station loudspeakers telling passengers where to stand, to add to all the other junk therefrom.

....and, of course, the 3 car trains are still packed solid !

As my daughter was waiting for the train this morning, she commented that her small "wheely" suitcase was in its 20th year. She bought it to travel to/from University in Southampton - her prime requirement when she bought it was not how much it held, but how comfortable it was to sit on, as she could never get a seat on the trains !!! Nothing has improved over the past 20 years.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 01, 2019, 19:14:35
Sets 119/219 were working one diagram today, and 129/211 on the other - I think there's only two of the daily diagrams that are booked to be 5-car at the moment still as per the thread here - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20063.0 

It is planned that all Portsmouth<>Cardiff services will be 5-car from the December timetable change, though how quickly the ramp up from two diagrams will be until then I don't know.  I suspect it will depend on getting IET's on the Paddington to Bedwyn's and 769s on the North Downs and Marlow's and Henley's to release the Turbos.  Neither of which I would like to be precise about at the moment!


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: rogerw on April 01, 2019, 20:42:12
1530 from Cardiff Central is only 5 carriages as far as Westbury.  The rear twocome off there and form the 1711 to Warminster


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Clan Line on April 01, 2019, 22:02:17

It is planned that all Portsmouth<>Cardiff services will be 5-car from the December timetable change,

Glad you put "planned" in italics - we seem to have heard that a few times in the past  ;) I have checked CIS several times over the last few weeks and there did appear to be only one 5 car train operating on many of the days that I looked - which did seem to confirm my visual (admittedly random) observations.

I note that the first post in the thread that you refer to is some 8 months old...is it unreasonable to expect something else to have happened since then ? Just one more 5 car train perhaps ? Where are all the 166s ?
I have a horrible feeling that come December we will be told "5 car trains at the May 2020 timetable change".

1530 from Cardiff Central is only 5 carriages as far as Westbury.  The rear two come off there and form the 1711 to Warminster

.....which then forms the 1728 to Gt Malvern - first stop Westbury ! Less than half an hour after the last service to Westbury. I cannot get my mind round this sort of bizarre scheduling.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Timmer on April 02, 2019, 08:09:58
The 1728 stops at Dilton Marsh before Westbury.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Clan Line on April 02, 2019, 08:33:31

touché !    :-[


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: phile on April 02, 2019, 11:53:49

It is planned that all Portsmouth<>Cardiff services will be 5-car from the December timetable change,

Glad you put "planned" in italics - we seem to have heard that a few times in the past  ;) I have checked CIS several times over the last few weeks and there did appear to be only one 5 car train operating on many of the days that I looked - which did seem to confirm my visual (admittedly random) observations.

I note that the first post in the thread that you refer to is some 8 months old...is it unreasonable to expect something else to have happened since then ? Just one more 5 car train perhaps ? Where are all the 166s ?
I have a horrible feeling that come December we will be told "5 car trains at the May 2020 timetable change".

1530 from Cardiff Central is only 5 carriages as far as Westbury.  The rear two come off there and form the 1711 to Warminster

.....which then forms the 1728 to Gt Malvern - first stop Westbury ! Less than half an hour after the last service to Westbury. I cannot get my mind round this sort of bizarre scheduling.

Some 166s are delayed from LTV due to door sighting mirror problems on IETs on the Bedwyn services necessary for DOO operation.so 3 166s have had to be retained for now.    Also the conversion of HSTs to operate in 2+4 formation on Cardiff to Taunton and beyond delayed to release further 166s for the Portsmouth route


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Clan Line on April 02, 2019, 20:52:32
Guess what I saw today ?


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: MVR S&T on April 02, 2019, 22:33:19
A 153 on a peak Portsmouth to Cardiff, or a 80x on one.



Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Western Pathfinder on April 02, 2019, 22:54:22
Guess what I saw today ?

Quick,Nurse the Screens !!..


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Timmer on May 02, 2019, 09:24:34
A rather frustrated colleague just walked up to my desk late for work scowling 'GWR!!!!!!!!' I suspect a fair few people commuting from Wiltshire to Bath and Bristol did so too when arriving at work this morning.

A two carriage train showed up at Trowbridge instead of the usual three. Needless to say the service was absolutely rammed. At Bradford the Train Manager tried to encourage those who could wait to get off and wait for the Portsmouth-Cardiff train that was 15 minutes behind. Arrived at Bath only to be told the train (understandably) won't be stopping at Oldfield Park and Keynsham because it was so full. Needing Oldfield Park, he had to get off and wait for the Cardiff train which was running late due to picking up passengers left behind from the previous two carriage service.

Looking at Journeycheck every so often shows the arrival of some of the Turbo fleet has yet to improve things for those who use West local services, in fact it looks like it's getting worse. Why? Because GWR have had to give up their 150/1s and 153s as the Turbos have arrived. I suspect there is a maintenance backlog that is causing services to be shortformed.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: phile on May 02, 2019, 11:32:39
A rather frustrated colleague just walked up to my desk late for work scowling 'GWR!!!!!!!!' I suspect a fair few people commuting from Wiltshire to Bath and Bristol did so too when arriving at work this morning.

A two carriage train showed up at Trowbridge instead of the usual three. Needless to say the service was absolutely rammed. At Bradford the Train Manager tried to encourage those who could wait to get off and wait for the Portsmouth-Cardiff train that was 15 minutes behind. Arrived at Bath only to be told the train (understandably) won't be stopping at Oldfield Park and Keynsham because it was so full. Needing Oldfield Park, he had to get off and wait for the Cardiff train which was running late due to picking up passengers left behind from the previous two carriage service.

Looking at Journeycheck every so often shows the arrival of some of the Turbo fleet has yet to improve things for those who use West local services, in fact it looks like it's getting worse. Why? Because GWR have had to give up their 150/1s and 153s as the Turbos have arrived. I suspect there is a maintenance backlog that is causing services to be shortformed.

GWR had to give up 150/1s and 153s as the lease had run out.    The problem is the late arrival of Turbos from LTV due to the Bedwyn IET problem and no 769s arrived for the North Downs.   


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Celestial on May 02, 2019, 11:55:38
If that's the problem then why not put into service a couple more short HSTs than make passengers suffer? We have had years of promises that things are going to get better, and patience is running thin.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Clan Line on May 02, 2019, 12:19:13
My daughter went for the 1109 Warminster to Salisbury on Monday - that eventually turned up 15 mins late. For some strange reason (lack of platforms at Soton ?)  they held the 1111 Westbury to Soton until the late running Portsmouth train had gone through. It looked as though a lot of passengers who would have got the Southampton train got the earlier (delayed) Portsmouth one - that was OK, as it it was a 5 car Turbo..............well it would have been OK - if the 165 on the rear hadn't been locked and empty !

At least SWR did the decent thing and held the 1147 Waterloo train at Salisbury until the Portsmouth train had finally arrived.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Timmer on May 02, 2019, 12:19:44
If that's the problem then why not put into service a couple more short HSTs than make passengers suffer? We have had years of promises that things are going to get better, and patience is running thin.
One word...Money. Don't disagree with you though.

The West local services are the problem child for First as it doesn't make much if any money but they have to operate the local services since its part of the overall franchise.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: grahame on May 02, 2019, 12:37:49
My daughter went for the 1109 Warminster to Salisbury on Monday - that eventually turned up 15 mins late. For some strange reason (lack of platforms at Soton ?)  they held the 1111 Westbury to Soton until the late running Portsmouth train had gone through. ...

The 11:11's main traffic  is connecting passengers off the Penzance to Paddington train, and that was running late.  Don't shout too loud as it's not very fashionable, but I suspect the 11:11 was held back to maintain the connection ... passenger number making the change from the West Country onto this train can number around 50.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: grahame on May 02, 2019, 12:56:35
My daughter went for the 1109 Warminster to Salisbury on Monday - that eventually turned up 15 mins late. For some strange reason (lack of platforms at Soton ?)  they held the 1111 Westbury to Soton until the late running Portsmouth train had gone through. ...

The 11:11's main traffic  is connecting passengers off the Penzance to Paddington train, and that was running late.  Don't shout too loud as it's not very fashionable, but I suspect the 11:11 was held back to maintain the connection ... passenger number making the change from the West Country onto this train can number around 50.

Westbury departures on Monday were ...
11:15 (scheduled 11:05) to London Paddington (arrived a couple of minutes earlier from Penzance), platform 3
11:16 (scheduled 11:01) to Portsmouth Harbour, platform 1
11:19 (scheduled 11:11) to Southampton Central, platform 2

It would - probably - have been possible for fit arrivals from The West to dash under from platform 3 and get the Portsmouth train ... but there are often less mobile and more luggage-laden people making the change, and the cross platform (3 to 2) change for those off on their cruises makes sense, rather than sending out the 11:11 (with its 75 m.p.h. schedule and extra stop at Dilton Marsh) ahead of the 11:01, which might have been further delayed at Westbury as 50 people with luggage and grannies all used the lifts!


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Clan Line on May 02, 2019, 18:49:23
My daughter went for the 1109 Warminster to Salisbury on Monday - that eventually turned up 15 mins late. For some strange reason (lack of platforms at Soton ?)  they held the 1111 Westbury to Soton until the late running Portsmouth train had gone through. ...

Don't shout too loud as it's not very fashionable,

I'm afraid I don't follow your comment about shouting - my entire post was entirely reasonable comment and in lower case. Someone else converted part of my post (above) into "bold" type.
I also stated that it "looked" as though additional passengers had joined this train - I stand by this statement - the train was extremely busy. I didn't have to opportunity to board the train and ask the passengers where they had actually started their journey.
This train was yet another example of the third rate service that has now become the norm on this route. The rolling stock was nominally 5 cars with "more seats" - but 40% of the train was locked to passengers and the remainder was overcrowded.

Perhaps a few people should "shout" about this ................


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Timmer on May 02, 2019, 19:09:56
I think Graham’s ‘Don’t Shout too loud’ was referring to the fact that a connection was held, something that’s not really the done thing in today’s multi company operated railway.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: grahame on May 02, 2019, 19:11:58
That came across wrong - sorry. Bad day.  I added the bold to show where I was offering an alternative explanation.   I felt it good that the 11:11 had been held, and my "don't shout it" was intended as a complement to whoever made the decision to hold the connection, even though it probably cost GWR more in terms of a lower "ppm" - having two trains late rather than one. "ppm" is, sadly, an operational figure based on trains delayed and not a customer figure based on passenger journeys delayed.

There is, I think, a need for a regular half hourly service right along the Cardiff - Portsmouth corridor, and the Westbury to Salisbury section is where that is missing.  The train scheduled at 11:01 from Westbury is the first one that carries on beyond Warminster for an hour so will get a very strong loading anyway ...

I think Graham’s ‘Don’t Shout too loud’ was referring to the fact that a connection was held, something that’s not really the done thing in today’s multi company operated railway.

Yes, as the gentleman suggested while I was writing.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Timmer on May 02, 2019, 22:22:28
Indeed Graham, the weak link as it were on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line is between Westbury and Salisbury but there is some good news with SWR operating more services from the May TT change. Question is are they where they are needed time wise for this section of line?


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: grahame on May 03, 2019, 07:53:06
Indeed Graham, the weak link as it were on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line is between Westbury and Salisbury but there is some good news with SWR operating more services from the May TT change. Question is are they where they are needed time wise for this section of line?

Small step in the right direction ... southbound from WARMINSTER, peaks and daytime, split hour by hour:

07:12 sou (Southampton Central)

08:12 pmh (Portsmouth Harbour)

09:10 pmh
09:48 wat (London Waterloo)

10:10 phm

11:09 pmh
11:20 sou
11:45 sal - NEW TRAIN (Salisbury)

12:09 pmh

13:09 pmh
13:39 btn (Brighton)
13:46 wat

14:09 pmh

15:09 pmh
15:50 sal - NEW TRAIN

16:12 phm
16:47 sal

17:11 pmh
17:54 sal

18:15 pmh

19:12 pmh
19:49 sou

20:17 pmh
20:23 wat (sal to 18.5)

So ...
6 hours out of 14 - just one train (was 7)
1 hour out of 14 - only other train close behind (was 2)
7 hours out of 14 - at least 2nd train in middle of hour (was 5)

Note that "sal" services are as shown on Real Time Trains - may be through carriages to Waterloo; some trains are in fact Waterloo to Waterloo via Yeovil Junction and Westbury!

Not shown above - but a big disappointment is that none of the SWR trains call at Dilton Marsh; a late change as around half of them were shown as calling in draft timetables.  If passenger numbers at a station are not good, it could be because of a poor catchment or because of a very poor service.  Dilton Marsh is has moved from the former (strictly from both) categories to the latter category and an excellent opportunity has not been taken.  But then I'm sure that though passenger would prefer to sit looking at the platform in Westbury or Salisbury on the layovers that these trains have there than lowering themselves to a stop at Dilton Marsh  ;D ;D

Edit to add 13:46 way which I had missed - Grahame


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: Timmer on May 03, 2019, 09:37:50
Being somewhat pedantic here, there's also the 13.47 Bristol-Sal/Wat. Pedantic in the sense its just 8 minutes after the Brighton train.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: grahame on May 03, 2019, 10:13:57
Being somewhat pedantic here, there's also the 13.47 Bristol-Sal/Wat. Pedantic in the sense its just 8 minutes after the Brighton train.

I have edited that in - thanks for the correction. It rather serves to highlight the sporadic nature of extra trains above the hourly pattern ...  hours like 12:00 to 13:00 with just the one train followed by hours like 13:00 to 14:00 with three.  And let's not overlook the hours that trains are generally at their busiest - such as from 07:00, from 08:00 and from 18:00 where there is just one train.     

Passengers / members not familiar with the area may line to note that in each and every hour, a train from the Southampton area to Salisbury sits in the station at Salisbury (20 minutes run south of Warminster) for 40 minutes, and that there is a complex pattern of layovers and turn arounds at Westbury, just 10 minutes to the north of Warminster.  Some of those services - not listed above - even make the trip out to Warminster and back. It should not be beyond the wit of the train companies (GWR and SWR) to provide a 30 minute service using existing resources and growing traffic.



Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: WSW Frome on May 03, 2019, 17:53:07
To be further pedantic there is also a new SWR service in the early morning YVP to WAT, via WSB - depart WMN 0750.


Title: Re: More spin - but no "more seats".....
Post by: grahame on May 08, 2019, 11:55:16
My daughter went for the 1109 Warminster to Salisbury on Monday - that eventually turned up 15 mins late. For some strange reason (lack of platforms at Soton ?)  they held the 1111 Westbury to Soton until the late running Portsmouth train had gone through. ...

The 11:11's main traffic  is connecting passengers off the Penzance to Paddington train, and that was running late.  Don't shout too loud as it's not very fashionable, but I suspect the 11:11 was held back to maintain the connection ... passenger number making the change from the West Country onto this train can number around 50.

"Heart" taken out of it today. 

A train on which the majority of customers are destined for Southampton ...
Quote
11:11 Westbury to Southampton Central due 12:17
11:11 Westbury to Southampton Central due 12:17 will be terminated at Romsey.
It will no longer call at Southampton Central.
It has been delayed at Westbury and is now 31 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.
... is terminated one stop short of Southampton!



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