Great Western Coffee Shop

So, the biggest shake up of the Great Western timetable in a long, long while is happening on 15th December.  I thought it deserved a thread of its own for general discussion, even though some specialist routes and services have been, and might continue to be, served on their own threads.

Here’s a (lengthy) summary of what we’ve been promised, what we’re expecting and what we’re hoping for as GWR and TfL Rail start to do the haggling with Network Rail to try and get a workable timetable implemented that ticks as many boxes as possible.  It is inevitable there will be some losers as well as plenty of winners.

A pledge was made, several years ago, that all IET services arriving into London in the morning peak and departing London in the evening peak will be either 9 or 10 cars.  We will see if that pledge is honoured. 

We do know that there will be many more scheduled 5-car services during the day to justify and provide for the increased number of trains on many routes.  Many extra services are also planned at weekends, especially on Sundays which will resemble the weekday service on many routes.

Here’s a route-by-route summary of what GWR and TfL Rail are hoping to provide where there are significant changes, gleaned from a variety of resources.  NONE OF THIS IS CONFIRMED AND SOME IS SPECULATION!

LONDON to WEST OF ENGLAND:
A more standardised timetable, with fewer stops and faster journeys.  London to Plymouth will become hourly calling only Reading, Taunton, Tiverton Parkway, Exeter St. Davids, Newton Abbot, Totnes and Plymouth, with services continuing to Penzance at least every other hour. 

To serve the intermediate stations there will be a 2-hourly service off-peak, with an extra one in the peak, from Paddington to Exeter (with the odd extension to Paignton/Plymouth), calling Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary and Taunton.

There will also be the odd extra peak train running between Frome and Paddington.
Excluding (presumably) the peak extras, this service pattern is expected to also apply on Saturdays and Sundays.

CORNWALL:
As well as the Paddington services above, Monday’s to Saturday’s see Cornwall getting a further boost on the extra services starting this May as they will become more properly spaced out to give a more even interval service from Penzance to either Plymouth, Exeter or Cardiff, mostly formed by Castle Class HSTs or Class 158s.  With the odd extra CrossCountry service this means some hours will have a 3tph (trains per hour) frequency, but it will be at least 2tph.

Sundays see an improved frequency, but not to the same extent as above.

There is planned to be a standard hourly pattern service between Liskeard and Looe, with other Cornish branches unchanged.

LONDON to KENNET VALLEY:
On Mondays to Saturdays, the existing hourly service between Paddington and Bedwyn will continue, but served by 5-car IETs with a journey time improvement of between 5-10 minutes over the current schedules.
The Reading to Newbury stopping service will continue as now on an hourly frequency, with a 4-car Class 387, but will hopefully be more standardised and slightly quicker owing to using Sectional Running Times for EMUs.

Newbury sees a real boost in services as it also gets the two-hourly Paddington to Exeter service calling, and on the intermediate hour gets another fast Class 387 service running Paddington<>Newbury only calling at Reading.

Sunday is planned to be very similar to the above.

LONDON to BRISTOL:
On weekdays and Saturdays services via Bath run at 2tph frequencies as now, but with modest journey time improvements.  On weekdays there will also be peak hour extras (hopefully three in each direction) which will run fast Chippenham<>Paddington – though there may also be the odd Swindon call.

On Sundays there will be additional trains in the morning.

There will also be, on weekdays only, two more additional services running via Bristol Parkway from roughly 9am-6pm (up direction) and 8am-4pm (down direction) which will be timed in 1h 20m or even slightly less between Bristol TM and Paddington, over 20 minutes quicker than today.  Just over 1 hour from Parkway to Paddington.  Though it is NOT expected that these services will start in December, but instead at some point during the validity of the timetable.

LONDON to SOUTH WALES:
Paddington to Cardiff and Swansea services continue as now on weekdays, (1tph to Swansea and 1tph to Cardiff) but with journey time improvements.  Though there will be three or four peak hour additional fast services running non-stop between Paddington and Bristol Parkway.

On weekends the existing hourly Swansea to Paddington service is supplemented by an hourly Cardiff to Paddington service (all day Saturday, and from lunchtime Sunday) to give a similar service to current weekdays, again with reduced journey times.

LONDON to CHELTENHAM/GLOUCESTER
The existing 2-hourly Paddington to Gloucester train, with peak hour extras is increased in frequency to every hour throughout the day with removal of the existing local Swindon to Gloucester DMU.  There will be modest journey time improvements.  The hourly service will also operate on Saturdays and Sundays.

LONDON to WORCESTER/MALVERN/HEREFORD
The service pattern continues at roughly the same levels as now, but with more standardised timings and modest journey time improvements.  The hourly service will also run on Saturdays and Sundays which will improve frequencies.  I’m not sure how many services will go beyond Worcester to Malvern and Hereford yet, though the opening of the turnback facility at Henwick (near Worcester Foregate Street) will make scheduling services in the Worcester area easier.

Some services will call at the new Worcestershire Parkway station.

OXFORD to PADDINGTON
Weekday services will continue at 2tph as now with the odd peak hour extra and modest journey time improvements.  A couple of them are planned to start from Banbury.

Sunday will see an extra fast train per hour, to also increase that up to 2tph (with the other service coming through from the Cotswolds).

DIDCOT/READING to PADDINGTON stopping services
TfL Rail take over many of the suburban services between Reading and Paddington using 9-car Class 345s.  It was planned they would use the Crossrail tunnels, but for the time being will run into the existing Paddington station on a 2tph frequency off-peak and 4tph frequency in the peaks calling all stations from Reading to Southall and then Ealing Broadway.

8-car Class 387 GWR services from Didcot to Paddington continue to operate off-peak at 2tph frequency, though some calls are removed between Reading and Paddington so that they only call at Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough, West Drayton, Hayes and Ealing Broadway.  Peak trains will operate as they do now running fast between Maidenhead or Slough to Paddington with some formed of 12-cars as now.

TfL Rail services continue as now between Paddington and Hayes/Heathrow, including the extra Sunday services starting in May.  Not sure if they all become 9-car or stay as 7-cars.
Weekends see a TfL Rail 2tph service operating Reading to Paddington calling all stations Reading to Southall and then Ealing, so Taplow and Iver should be getting a Sunday service at last, twice an hour no less. 

GWR operate a 2tph Didcot to Paddington service as above on a Saturday, and on Sundays a 1tph service (calling at Southall instead of West Drayton), meaning there will be a 3tph suburban service between Reading and Paddington up from 2tph now.

READING to GATWICK
No sign (yet) of the aspirational 3tph service, so timetable continues as now though with extra capacity as many trains should be operated by 4-car Class 769s

READING to BASINGSTOKE
Weekday peaks see an increase from 2tph to 3tph.

CARDIFF to PORTSMOUTH
All services on weekdays should be operated by 5-car Class 165/6 trains, though some Saturday trains remain in the hands of Class 158s due to problems caused by overnight possessions.

EXETER AREA 'WEST' SERVICES
There is a 2tph service operating between Exmouth and Paignton, which increases the frequency of trains between Exeter and Paignton.

Barnstaple line services run to/from St. James Park and become more clockface with modest journey time improvements, and are generally operated by Class 158s



There are numerous other little changes.

If anyone has any extra details, or questions, then shout them out!

Wow - that is excellent, thank you.  I have some further information regarding Bristol operated more local services (such a Severn Beach, Taunton, Weymouth, Great Malvern, Warminster) which I will post later.   Also a couple of notes where long distance changes might significantly effect local journeys.  These may indeed have their own thread too - but good to have a summary all in one place?

Do you anticipate/has it been confirmed (delete as appropriate) whether Tiverton Parkway will be served by the 'fasts' or the semi-fasts?

Can I ask what, if anything, is happening to the Reading - Didcot - Oxford -Banbury stoppers?

Since Oxford electrification was stopped/postponed it appears to have become the forgotten service; maybe everybody is so embarrassed by what has happened they think it is best not to mention it.  ;D ;D ;D

Great post - thank you.


I recall there was a plan for an extra evening service from Paddington to the Cotswolds. Any idea if this is likely to surface in December (or indeed ever)?

Thanks very much to II for his comprehensive post.  A quick question for II.  Are the Paddington departure times (e.g. xx03 for WoE) likely to change from the current pattern due to the speed up of sectional running times?

You're likely to have an 11:03, a 12:03, a 13:03 ... etc ... but the arrival times in to Plymouth are likely to range from a little sharper to a lot sharper than today (or 25 minutes better in cases such as the current 15:03 which calls at little wayside halts like Westbury  ;D )

Oh - sorry - noted that was from II ... my data comes from timetable 'snagging' meeting of a couple of months back, but pretty sure it won't have been rewritten since.

This is very much what was in Modern Railways, August 2017 I think it was or was it 2016.

The Devon Metro at last! I wonder how late into the evening the half hour service will run. Will IC91 still make up one of the services?  The Sunday service needs to run a lot earlier. 0949 from Paignton is far too late.

A point re the Barnstaple-St Jame's Park. I think this will be like now Exeter Central as it is easier to detrain there then run empty to Morrisons (Exmouth Junction siding) to reverse. In the longer term I think there is enough space at Exeter Central station to have a centre siding.

"LONDON to WORCESTER/MALVERN/HEREFORD
The service pattern continues at roughly the same levels as now, but with more standardised timings and modest journey time improvements.  The hourly service will also run on Saturdays and Sundays which will improve frequencies.  I’m not sure how many services will go beyond Worcester to Malvern and Hereford yet, though the opening of the turnback facility at Henwick (near Worcester Foregate Street) will make scheduling services in the Worcester area easier."


Does this mean the remaining two hour gaps will be filled? And the benefits of the double tracking finally realised....?

Faster journey times to Plymouth noted, but  "calling only Reading, Taunton, Tiverton Parkway, Exeter St. Davids, Newton Abbot, Totnes and Plymouth"  - not really much different, missing out only the odd Westbury/Newbury/Castle Cary stop on some services?

Is anything being done in terms of more Sunday services to ease the appalling Eastbound overcrowding (especially) between Plymouth and Paddington?

Thanks.

I have seen almost nothing about Sunday plans other than a recognition that Sundays are getting to be the busiest days for services from the West Country but without an appropriate service to match.  That is largely due to constraints caused by engineering works (or the potential for such works).   How easy it will be to add extra services remains to be seen.

Served by the fasts according to what I've seen.  Not sure whether it's served by the semi-fasts as well.


Don't think anything is happening there I'm afraid.  There has been no talk of 769s being used between Reading and Oxford other than for ECS moves for stabling.  Hopefully all will be 3-car Turbos, but with six daily 3-car diagrams and nine daily 2-car ones expected to be required for LTV services, there will still be more two cars than three in daily operation for the LTV services!


As Graham says, still likely to be xx:03 (from 07:03 to 21:03), with the semi-fasts to Newbury/Exeter/Plymouth/Paignton departing at xx:37.


Sorry, I don't know yet.



From what I know it will be hourly between Paddington and Worcester all day, all week.  There is no mention of anything in addition to that (other than the 'Halts' service), but that doesn't mean it won't happen of course.


To agree with bobm, I've seen no mention of any more Sunday services other than the hourly 'fast' and two-hourly 'semi-fasts', which isn't much different to what operates currently.  If all are operated by 9 or 10-car trains east of Plymouth that will see a modest improvement in the number of seats compared with the current timetable, and more trains operating between Penzance and Exeter will help spread the loads a little, but no massive increase in provision from what I can see.

It will be interesting to see what savings time wise are made on a service-by-service basis, when the timetables are finalised.

All long distance services from / to Paddington should have frequency increases of some sort on Sundays. For the West of England, my understanding is that the service will be similar to Monday to Friday's off peak pattern, though I don't know when services will start.

Thanks for your responses, II.

Will these also call at Swindon and Reading or are they going to run direct Parkway to Paddington?

Does this mean many of the fast services to/from Twyford are disappearing? Not sure extra stoppers is what is needed.

Thanks for that II


Obviously a disappointment bearing in mind that the franchise specification refers to a Reading - Oxford stopping service if I recall correctly.

Can you clarify please - does mean that there will be 15 Turbos covering all remaining diesel services in the Thames Valley, so that this number (plus presumably a few spares) will be retained in our part of the world and the rest released to go West?

Does this include those for the North Downs and Reading - Basingstoke?

And what will the 769's be used for? There are meant to be 19 on order, so they must be doing something more than North Downs duty.

Is there any suggestion that Reading - Didcot may move towards a more evenly spaced (better still, clockface) service?

And is there any commitment to making service calling patterns at interchange stations match better to assist those of us who change trains between two regular services?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but these all have an impact on my regular travels.

But there are no fast trains at Twyford now! Except in the peaks, that is, about which II said:

So I take it that the new pattern of semifasts is what is already in place, pretty much. Off-peak, half the stoppers stop less, so - provided the timetablers' spells all work - they should be a little quicker.

They are just calling at Bristol Parkway.  'Superfast' is the label that is being used for these, and also the ones that run fast from Chippenham to Paddington in the peaks and the other peak services from South Wales that run direct from Bristol Parkway to Paddington.


To confirm what Stuving said, it looks like the fast services from Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough will remain in a similar pattern in the peaks as they do now.  For example there is planned to be 17:21, 17:51, 18:21, 18:51 and 19:36 Paddington to Didcot services which will be first stop Maidenhead - and all formed of 12-cars, with a similar service the other way in the morning peak.


Fifteen daily Turbo diagrams to cover all LTV services (so probably around 17-18 units being retained in total for those diagrams).  They will cover West Ealing to Greenford, Slough to Windsor, Maidenhead to Bourne End/Marlow and Twyford to Reading duties, as well as Reading to Basingstoke, and Reading/Didcot to Oxford/Banbury stopping services.  That compares with 27 daily diagrams on 'West' services from a fleet in the early 30s, so Turbos will be predominantly based in the West - still leaves a gap in the total fleet size of 58 units though so not sure how they are being accounted for.

There are expected to be 8 Class 769 daily diagrams, which will be the North Downs services.  There are plans to also use them on some of the Thames Valley branches, though perhaps they are initially being a bit cautious about how many will be available - wise given that none have turned a wheel in passenger service anywhere yet!  That might also account for the unaccounted Turbos in that they will be used to cover any initial shortfall, and might mean more Turbos can be released after the timetable has commenced and all of the 769s are all available.

I don't know about actual timings of the trains and how they connect as yet.

II.  Do you have any idea how much 'white space' into/out of Paddington there will be in each timetable hour?  It looks to me that things are going to rotate on a 15 minute cycle which won't give any room for late running etc.  I think the WCML 20 minute cycle is a much better prospect.  Surely 3 trains an hour to Bristol at 20 minute intervals would be sufficient, for example.

Nothing definite at the moment, S&T, as it's all in the hands of NR for validation, but  GWR want off-peak fast departures at xx:00, 03, 07, 15, 18, 20, 30, 33, 37, 45, 48, 50.  The xx:20/50 stop at Slough, everything else is fast to Reading.  You also have to fit in the four HEx services as well which will presumably be xx:10, 25, 40, 55.  Then of course there's the open access bid if it got approval, and the odd extra one a peak times!  It's going to be tight.

Thanks II.  Personally I don't think it will ever work successfully, day in, day out.  One slight delay and the whole timetable will collapse.  Hope GWR have good contingency planners and a robust recovery plan..... ;D

I can see it might just work heading out of London, as you would hope most trains leave Paddington on time.But surely there is no chance going eastwards, when trains will be at the end of their journeys, and much more likely to be running even a couple of minutes late.

Some of the existing inbound trains have a few minutes of 'recovery time' built in ... with multiple platforms at Reading the trains can be lines up / fired off towards London even if they're slightly erratic in their arrival there and  with a couple of fudge minutes they won't be too far out when they arrive.   How often do you check your watch as you get in to Paddington and have you noticed that at times you're a few minutes early.

You can see, though , from Recent Train Times graphs, just how long it takes for delays to work back from sequential train. See attachment.

Thanks II - looks like I am going to have to keep my fingers crossed for quite  while yet!

I'm not sure I understand that graph I'm afraid, but not to worry.  I do know that Airport Junction often results in a delay heading into London, presumably because of a Heathrow Express train going first. But them I'm not a regular traveller so that might just be bad luck.

No, you have not been unlucky.  In the Up direction the Signalling System ARS routes trains at Airport Junction dependent on them 'striking in' on fixed signalling sections on the approach, with the system designed to give a green signal aspect sequence to trains where possible.  Its very much a 'First Come First Served' (FCFS) system.

On Open Train Times signalling map http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/gwml2 you can watch this happening hour after hour, day after day.  Completely stuffs the GWR services when a HE train is routed out moments ahead of a GWR service.  If I had my way I would relegate all Heathrow services to the Relief Lines as really they are about frequency rather than speed.

Do we have any information yet about what the departure/arrival times will look like at the Bristol / Cardiff ends?  I'm mainly interested in how the new HSS timings will require the Cardiff - Portsmouth and Cardiff - Taunton services to shuffle around them.

Subject to NR validation, from Cardiff the Taunton (with some now going beyond) departures are at xx:00, and the Portsmouth's around xx:30.  The two London trains are generally at xx:19 and xx:47.  So quite a spread compared with now where the Portsmouth and Cardiff services leave only a few minutes behind a London departure.

Following up on IndustryInsider's excellent initial summary, as invited I am filling in from some (but very patchy) knowledge. 

Overview ... many improvement as already outlined on London services - faster, extra, etc.  Some really good improvements in Devon and Cornwall too.  Parts of the in-between feel like a bit of a no-man's land where changes are few, and those changes that are being made largely reflect the need to interwork with new faster and more frequent IET services.  I am short on weekend information - the following reflects Monday to Friday.

CARDIFF / BRISTOL to PORTSMOUTH
Little change to timetable, though by 2020 we should be up to 5 carriages on all daytime diagrams.

CARDIFF / BRISTOL to TAUNTON
Broadly uchanged pattern.  Some changes in extensions of London services to Bristol - which go on to Weston-super-mare or Taunton, and which start back there.  Concern that a couple of crowd-buster London trains into Bristol in the morning peak are moved, for example. Hard to tell if this is a real problem as I don't know (nor do Severnside CRP who raised the concern) as there may be Cross Country changes to fill the gaps.

SEVERN BEACH
Basically still a 40 minute service.  Proposals to drop some Sea Mills calls in the earlier draft have been reversed; some more extensions from Avonmouth to Severn Beach(?). Very long mid-eveing gap remains.

BRISTOL to WEYMOUTH
Very little change as far as I can tell - varying gaps between 1 hour and 3 hours on trains into Weymouth. No Heart of Wessex rep at the meeting which looked at central area services; they are between Community Rail Officers, Catherine sorely missed!

BRIGHTON
Very little change. Plan is for 165/166 to be able to run along the coast, replacing 158s usd at present.

SWINDON To WESTBURY
Significant retiming due to pathing issues (old paths used by retimed and new trains). Previous extra return service in middle of the day (above the SLC) withdrawn - overall result, longer gaps (e.g. 07:50 to 10:20 Melksham to Swindon). New 05:18 service Westbury to Swindon. No extra late evening service being provided.  Connections at Westbury random - a few improvements, but some well established flows broken.

BRISTOL to SWINDON (local traffic)
Daytime services remain 2 per hour calling at Bath Spa and Chippenham. Peak, a third train added Bristol - Bath - Chippenham but then non-stop to Paddington, resulting in 40 minute gaps in and out of Swindon as against current 30 minute gaps.  Extra morning peak service from Bristol to Swindon no longer runs.

Evening services off Bristol now evened out to being hourly (long gap gone) but last service at 22:40 (currently 22:35) still too early for leisure traffic.

WESTBURY to SOUTHAMPTON (local services)
Very little changed. Some services which previously connected well at Westbury from the South West no longer connect.

BRISTOL to GREAT MALVERN
Not aware of any major changes, or comments that suggest changes.

Firstly, many thanks to Industry Insider for his excellent summary of forthcoming changes to IC and Thames Valley services and to Graham for his summary of the mainly local ex Wessex Trains services.

Sadly after reading what Graham has posted I feel somewhat underwhelmed that once again the local services part of the GWR franchise isn’t seeing much in the way of improvements.

In fact, the main improvements that affect parts of the Cardiff-Portsmouth and Bristol-Weymouth lines come this May from another franchise that being SWR. See https://www.southwesternrailway.com/~/media/files/other/news/2019/march/may-2019-timetables/west-of-england-may-2019-tt-changes.pdf?la=en

Disappointed that it looks like nothing has been done to lessen the three hour gap on the Weymouth line.

I applaud SWR for the very detailed listing of all the changes they are making in May and can but hope that GWR do likewise the nearer we get to the December TT change.

Thanks for the information. 

Will the South Wales departures from Paddington remain at xx:15 and xx:45?  If so, they will be running pretty much in the current paths of Portsmouth / Taunton to Cardiff services west of Bristol.  Reason I'm interested in these details is that I'm reliant on connections with the Hereford line at Newport.  If timings stay the same at the London end, I reckon the Newport connections with trains from London may be generally better, perhaps worse with trains from BRI.

There’s a reason why signallers say there is an E in ARS.  ;D

They're likely to be xx:18 and xx:48 from Paddington, but because of the decreased journey times they leave Bristol Parkway generally at xx:03 and xx:39 so a few minutes ahead of now, and with a 19-23 minute journey time to Newport.

EARS ? ;)

Is ARS going to get any smarter over time?  It doesn't take a massive amount of compute power to think 10 minutes and several future train moves ahead, does it?

That will probably come with ETCS/ERTMS in 20xx.........  Oh, hang on a minute we won't be part of the EU by then, so who knows.  They might not want to share the technology with us by then, except at a price of course.

I'll quietly depart the room with my cynics hat on ::)

Whether we are in or out (and I make no prediction on that), manufacturers will be producing the equipment for ETCS/ERTMS as their standard product. I suspect even the non-EU manufacturers will do so as it represents a large market with a single standard.  A number of European Standards have been adopted as ISO standards for that reason.

If we want to specify something else then we will have to pay extra for it - probably a lot extra.  So I reckon we will adopt it either way. 

Well, Network Rail have been trying to acquire some of this stuff for a while, with not a lot to show for it yet. But Roger Ford's view, having talked to those involved, is that some progress is now visible

Route setting, even if automatic, is really just creating paths - flipping the switches across the panel so a train gets from A to B. Above that are a number of functions that should direct the ARS - doing conflict resolution, optiimisation, or more generally traffic management. It seems that industry has had a number of problem with this (including what to call it), and one of those is our old friend interfacing. Buying interlockings and several higher-level components from a variety of makers means fixing interface definitions in advance, and limits how closely the bits can cooperate. Fewer bits, with more in them from one maker, seems to work better. We'll see.

All of that applies with or without ERTMS - which really adds one main feature: being able to talk to a train and tell it when to be at X and at what speed.

This is very much the reason we have standards. 

Go back to the time every nut and bolt was hand made to fit each other, later companies developed their own standards, but there was no interchangeability. This in 1841 Joseph Whitworth published a standard that revolutionised manufacturing industry in this country. Suddenly you cold buy a nut and bolt from different suppliers and they would fit. 

That appears to be where we are with railway signalling/control/management systems at the moment - making the first steps into interchangeability by specifying the interfaces.  Hugely more complicated it may be than a screw thread, but just as important.  Once you have interchangeability manufacturers will know that their kit interfaces with other manufacturers and innovators will be able to develop new kit that will interface with existing systems. 

That is why I predict that the standards behind ETCS/ERTMS will continue to be used in this country, but will eventually become ISO standards applicable across the world.

Maintaining old kit like the radio signalling on the North of Scotland line and the GW ATP is expensive because they are non standard and the parts have to be bespoke made.  If, in 20 years time, a part goes wrong on the now new Mid Wales radio signalling, then I would expect it could be easily replaced with a modern off the shelf part from any of a number of manufacturers.

If NR decides it wants something different it would be like going back to hand made screw threads in 1841 - very expensive. 

 

The new GW timetable is now appearing on RTT. Usual caution that this is raw data and subject to change but gives you a chance to see what’s likely to be running from your local station from mid December.

Well spotted, Timmer.  Looks to be reasonably accurate, but yes, expect a few changes here and there.

Indeed - looks like a nearly normal service through Swindon on Christmas Day - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/SWI/2019/12/25/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/SWI/2019/12/25/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt)  ;D

Looking at the broader timetable it seems many of the "extra" services between Bristol and London, which we know may well not start in December, are in the timetable as "unadvertised expresses".

Ah! Perhaps it was a bulk loading to be tidied up in the future when Christmas and New Year travel arrangements are put on the system.

I note a number of Paddington - Bristol - Weston Super Mare services routed non-stop to Bristol Parkway.

Many thanks ... I have taken a local look for Melksham (of course!) and posted {{here}} (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/22002)

No more non-stop Reading to Exeter runs then.  Both the 1004 and 1204 to call at Reading, Taunton, Exeter, Newton Abbot and Totnes before Plymouth with the 1004 also calling at Tiverton Parkway.  I can understand the desire to have a consistent clockface timetable although leaving out Tiverton Parkway on the 1204 does seem a bit random when almost everything else will stop there.  The early morning departure to Plymouth remains fast though calling only at Reading, Taunton and Exeter as now.

In the up direction, apart from some early morning departures it seems everything will call at Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter, Tiverton Parway and Taunton, quite a few more stops compared to the Cornish Riviera when currently only calls at Exeter before running fast to Reading.

Got some 22 minute runs to Reading.

A special service has been introduced just for broadgage.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L97043/2019/12/22/advanced

Take a look at the catering info...

 :P

I see that the timing designation "HST" has been removed. For IETs it now reads either "Diesel locomotive, trailing load 802 tonnes" or in a few cases "Electric locomotive, trailing load 802 tonnes". Which might be a logical distinction, but isn't in fact since this service to Taunton is an electric one (allegedly).

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94144/2019/12/18/advanced

Now, why 802 tonnes?

Presumably a typo ?

Seems reasonable. From https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/topic/trains/buffet-car - a buffet (on a train) is

So the case in point, it's a mobile trolley serving at seats as far as Chippenham, at which point the train gets too busy for it to go though and it become static, with the area immediately around it being "the part of a train where you can buy something to eat and drink".

The designation appears to be diesel mostly to London (lots of IETs start off grid) and electric from. The 802 is probably reference to Class 80x. I expect this is a temporary fudge until data feeds and individual train running websites/apps are updated to reflect actual rolling stock.

Ah but will he be allowed to take his surfboard?

It's a 'to London' service TG. Not much call for hanging 10 or shooting the tube on the Serpentine. :P

It's part of his endless quest to be environmentally friendly - gets off at Paddington and paddles it along the Grand Union Canal.

Also not great for travelling between the South Coast and Westcountry via Westbury with waits of around 45 minutes.  Not too bad in the opposite direction though.

Interesting Penzance to Cardiff Central services that are appearing. Roughly 2 hourly but no obvious pattern for them.

I can only see three direct departures from Penzance to Cardiff Central (0640, 1050 and 1650).

Having had a chance this evening to look through the RTT data I know personally a few people who are not going to be impressed at the large drop in Bristol Parkway/Cardiff services stopping at Didcot as shown.

Apart from a handful at the ends of the day and a couple in the evening peak these have gone altogether. Of course journeys are possible changing at Swindon, but there hasn't been a timetable anything like this since the early 2000s. This certainly was not the impression given by the indicative IET full service diagrams put out previously; indeed an early one of these had the Cardiff service stopping at Didcot and then non-stop to Paddington!

This stop has in effect been transferred to the second Bristol TM service making this two an hour through most of the day.

For the record, broadgage does not posses a surfboard, and is most unlikely to acquire one. Too old and fat. I also posses no "surf wear"
My concern at the prohibition on surfboards is on general environmental grounds, not self interest. Train travel should be encouraged in order to reduce the climate changing carbon emissions from flying and driving.
Prohibiting surfboards and discouraging cycles on the new trains will encourage driving.

I think this was due to issues with providing enough freight paths.  Certainly the original intention was to run one from Didcot to Cardiff per hour and one to Bristol, as now.  It's a big loss in terms of ease of getting to South Wales from both Oxford and Didcot and hopefully can be rectified - though to counter that, as you say, the service to Bristol TM improves to 2tph.  The PAD>CDF services generally have a lot of pathing allowances west of Bristol Parkway so I am guessing it has proven difficult to shoehorn them in?

The 2 minute headways on the main out of Paddington are going to be interesting in practice.

Another downside of the new timetable is that the acceleration of the PAD - CDF/SWA services means that many BRI - CDF services need to be re-timed to run after them rather than before them, worsening connections with the Hereford line at Newport.

According to RTT, early evening 'connections' at Newport will look like this:
arr from BRI: 1701, 1730, 1804, 1831, 1910
dep to HFD: 1701, 1731, 1803, 1835, 1909

Until there is a re-cast of the Marches Line timetable, I guess there's not much scope to fix this.

That will never work.  The current three minute headway usually gets snarled up somewhere en-route to Reading and then there's Heathrow Express.......

Most mainlines run to a five minute headway with a 10 minute recovery gap every hour to give some breathing room for slight delays.

A quick look at mid-week Far-Southwest services shows a slowing up of overall times to/from Paddington.  For example, back in the 'good old days' the Up Golden Hind Pullman was 0700 off Plymouth, Paddington arrive 0955.  Its new equivalent is 0652 off Plymouth, Paddington arrive 0959.  We seem to have also gone back 40 years to 10 minute stops on most through journeys at Plymouth to allow for set coupling/uncoupling (loco and coach dividing of course in the 'old days').

Be interesting how long it all lasts before it starts to get 'tweeked' again.......

Edit to add: In the peak hour 0800 to 0900 there are going to be 58 scheduled train movements into/out of Paddington.  That will take some doing and require spot on timekeeping and train dispatch proceedures, not something the UK rail industry is renowned for (I'll take my cynics hat off for a while now).

That's the number I get, for everything that's not a bus (and including depot moves). And in the current timetable that number is ... 57!

Yes, but more of them need to cross paths to get to/from the Mains to the lower numbered platforms!

However, STUVING I must learn not to be too over critical of the MDTR, after all BR failed at every step it took didn't it :P ::)

If you look at the hour 1400 to 1500, the total number of movements will go up from the current 43 to 57. So a key point about these extra paths/trains is that they mainly run outside the peaks.

In that peak* hour there are about 30 arrivals of which about 10 are on the reliefs. But one other expected change is the loss of most of the semifasts, leaving room for some extra long-distance trains even in the peak. Twyford and Maidenhead now look to have* (I expect someone more concerned will check this) only one true semifast, the rest are demisemifasts.

* 0800 to 0900 - other peaks hours are available

I have been looking at the (draft) Dec 19 timetables on RTT with my particular interest in Heart of Wessex services. I was expecting little change as predicted and that is largely the case. I have not yet looked at WSB connections.

Those party animals in Trowbridge, Westbury and Frome will now get more drinking time. The late service now leaves BRI at 23.45, FRO 00.45. Good in some respects, less so in others! SWI residents not too jealous please.

The more serious issue is the missing 20.21 WEY-BRI on Mo-Fr. I sincerely hope this is an error since otherwise we have a major service reduction. It does seem incredible that the last service will now apparently be at 17.23 which is slightly earlier than currently. Although not usually busy this service clearly provides a public good. Young people often travel Dorchester to Maiden Newton after a social night or study night. Travellers heading West will change at Castle Cary. I can and possibly will list more later.
 
I have congratulated GWR on running the current service at a reasonable time, allowing some evening activity in Weymouth, Dorchester or Yeovil. This is better than the BR post-Beeching offer which was at 19.33 in a loco-hauled mail train timing.

The other strange issue is that the three inbound evening trains to WEY, all still run apparently delivering an "extra" set to WEY.

The only mitigating factor is the late SWR service from Castle Cary  to WSB/SAL but this does not address the main market.

Is this the train you are looking for WSW Frome?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y96048/2019/12/16/advanced
Now the 2015 service all the way to Gloucester arriving at 2338! Now there’s a service for some late evening Turbo action, a journey from Weymouth all the way to Gloucester.

One thing that I noticed, and I believe Graham picked up on it some time ago as well, is that the 2O00 1741 Cheltenham to Southampton via Melksham will be starting from Gloucester from December. This breaks a useful connection off a southbound NE/SW XC train.

Whilst a connection is still made with with a Nottingham to Cardiff XC train at Gloucester, anyone coming from further north than Derby needs to Change twice (Brum or Cheltenham and Gloucester) rather than just the one change at Cheltenham at present.

Whilst I'm not aware the Heart of Wessex is scheduled for any notable improvements, I'd be very surprised if the service was reduced as I haven't seen anything to suggest it would. Cutting first or last trains definitely wouldn't go down well.

Compared to the improvement on many other rural lines (Barnstaple and Looe for instance), it's striking how little improvement there's been on that line over the years in any case. All year round Sunday services (albeit having travelled on a few I can see why they didn't run before) and using a HST on the summer Saturday special were admittedly improvements. However my 1991-92 timetable shows the same number of trains running then as now, and an all stations service then took 2 hours 11 minutes. It's usually at least 10 minutes longer now despite stopping at the exact same 18 stations as before. Not exactly progress.

It's fairly obvious why - resources are concentrated at the busier northern end of the line and it shares tracks with the Great Western, Devon & Cornwall direct and South Western mainlines, so local trains have to be flighted between intercity services and have to travel over a 30 mile single line, meaning long waits at any of Dorchester West, Maiden Newton, Yeovil Pen Mill, Castle Cary, Frome or Westbury on numerous trains. I can understand that and the fact the line is never going to be a priority but it's still annoying. The Turbos are hardly a step up either with 2+3 seating and air conditioning which makes the 158s look reliable - and the higher 90mph top speed isn't going to make any discernible difference if you stop 19 times in 87 miles, particularly given that only Bristol-Bath, Westbury-Castle Cary and Dorchester-Weymouth allow over 75mph running anyway.

Ah well nevermind. The improvements on other rural lines are still welcome.

It's booked a 158 at the moment but mass changes in the pipeline involving that class

So many thanks to Timmer for waving the magic wand and reinstating the later Mo-Fr evening service WEY-BRI/GCR. I can assure everyone that this service was not in the RTT listing (along the route) last Sunday or early Monday evening. I looked several times.

The timing for this revised service at 20.15 is shown as a Class 150, not a 158 as current. So the journey is about 5 mins longer to WSB. Mind you the 158 timings nearly always get delayed now - for no apparent reason of hold-ups or excess passengers. As the departure is now closer to the previous arrival at 20.06, let us hope there is no waiting around for a delayed incomer just to give the WSB crew a lift back home. The 20.21/20.15 train is normally formed from the previous incoming unit. 

 

From December, Pilning services change from 08:34 (Taunton) to 08:32 to Penzance and from 15:34 (to Taunton) to become 14:32 to Taunton.
Notice the current 15:34 is now meant to pass Pilning at 15:30 from December but still arrives same time at Taunton.
One hour less to start with limits some of the possible day destinations straight away...

Given extra services & extra long 387s, will there be sufficient rolling stock and crew to maintain them all without short forming other services and/or cancellations as a result?

I'm conscious that frequently (weekdays and weekends) there are insufficient staff available to sustain the current timetable.

Are you forgetting that some of the diagrams will be taken over by TfL and their new fleet of trains. 

Conscious of that. Question still stands.

Quite a few LTV drivers will be released for other things as a result of the TfL takeover.  They will no doubt find other duties, such as the extra peak Basingstoke trains.

My only concern over LTV is that late evening when TfL give up for the day and GWR take over the late stopping services.

West sector services I don’t know well enough to be able to express an opinion.

I certainly have my concerns over HSS sector trains - especially at weekends when there is a substantial increase in trains, particularly Sundays where we often struggle as documented on here.

I would expect LTV sector depots will learn more routes to help balance things out, but whether it’ll be enough, I don’t know.

I’m aware that there are depots in the West where Drivers and Conductors are learning to Paddington, well at least according to a Gloucester driver..

I think they’re learning the IETs, I doubt they’ll learn the route to Paddington.  To sign a route the drivers need to have booked work over that route. 

There are defiantly drivers learning to Paddington.

Definitely defiant?  :P

Good to see GWR have started the campaign to inform everyone of the forthcoming major timetable change:
https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/timetable-2019

You can also sign up to receive further information:
https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/contact/december-timetable

Whilst writing, details regarding services over Christmas are also available:
https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/planned-engineering/christmas

I suppose it is cleverly worded. Exeter- Paignton every half an hour which I suppose it will be with Exmouth trains coming off the branch. It does not say Paignton- Exeter twice an hour and you may be stuck in Dawlish Warren increasing your journey time.

Will we possibly see 10 car formations operating on the South and North Cotswold lines? I’ve also noticed that 9 car IETs are now being signalled into Gloucester platform 1 where they previously wouldn’t fit but there has since been improvement works.

As I understand it from past discussions, neither the North or South Cots are suitable for 2*5 car IETs as in places they are too long - they just don't fit the infrastructure (eg track circuits, cross overs etc). Not sure exactly where in total but I recall Gloucester, Cheltenham, Hereford, and Moreton-in-Marsh have various issues. In some of them certain platforms could be used but would adversely affect the general operational flexibility; in others it relates to the ability to turn them around at that point. If this is out of date I'd welcome any further info. In the early days 10 cars were allocated in error a few times though.

Certain places have been modified, for example Worcester Shrub Hill can now fit a 10-car train within the signals at both ends of the main platform.  Hereford has problems with 9-cars, meaning they don’t dwell in the station like they used to when HSTs - that would be no worse with a 10-car.

What will run as 10-cars, when, and where, is unknown to me at the moment.

Are you sure about nine-car IETs in Platform 1 at Gloucester? I’ve not heard of the restriction being lifted.

A look on RTT and it’s showing Paddington bound services using the platform. Also, a NR Manager seemed to think that they were moving the points to accommodate longer trains.

Didn't they relay the track in Gloucester Station Recently?

On realtimetrains only the 06.10 and 09.33 are booked from Platform 1. And certainly the 09.33 from Gloucester is only booked for five coaches. I would imagine the 06.10 is booked on 1 but in reality gets amended to 2 or 4 by the signaller each morning

Don't take anything definite in RTT as gospel at this stage.   What you see now could be different by the time December comes as there is possible some editing to be done


_{Edit: Fixed quotes - RS}

Looks like the Taplow and Iver service on Sunday's is indeed kicking in from December.  Every 30 minutes between 8am and 11pm.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/TAP/2019/12/22/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

I must admit I thought it might only be hourly, but every 30 minutes really is a quantum leap over nothing!  And it also boosts the service from some of the other station on the route as well.

Will there be a street party, TG?  ;)

I am consumed with joy and have added an extra garland of flowers to those already sitting around the neck of the Mark Hopwood statue in my garden.

Naturally I will be working with the Parish Council to ensure a suitable commemoration of this historic occasion. As well as a carnival I'm inclined to suggest the dedication of a stained glass window in the church.

One more question.......I'm assuming that there will be a Pullman dining service, or at the very least a buffet fully stocked and with brandy & cigars on each of these trains?

Well he's started on the Plymouth Gin already....

Nothing quite that lavish I’m afraid.  Though the new trains have been fitted with plenty of longitudinal seats with the main reason that people will be able to admire Taplow’s inherent beauty without needing to turn their heads.

I think you need a word with the people of Titfield TG. Perhaps you can start up a volunteer-run Taplow Thunderbolt!

That's the first time I've been described as an inherent beauty. Clearly someone else has started early on the Plymouth Gin this morning 🙂

Thanks Guys, I was feeling a bit low this morning but all those recent posts have really cheered me up.  Time for a glass of Plymouth G.........  ;D

According to a member of RailForums (some) staff have been issued with a copy of the new timetables alongside the allocations for them. Apparently, some services are running with 5 instead of 9/10 on services which should really have them..

I'm sure they won't get it 100% right first time and some allocations may need to be tweaked over time in certain circumstances.

"Don't pay too much notice to that just yet" was what I was told. Sounds rather as if the main thing is sorting out the paths, and diagrams, then 5, 9, 10 swaps can me made.   Of course it's not quite that simple, as longer trains have to maintain lower speeds for a longer period as they pass over junctions and around sharp corners, but I suspect that's not a huge factor in the great scheme of things at this stage!

Grahame, you need to go and stand in the 'Naughty Corner'.  They are CURVES not CORNERS.... ;D

I sometimes wonder . . .

So do I - surely I should be sent to the naughty curve?

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/Snaughtycorner.jpg)

 ;D  ;D

Enough to drive me round the bend! 

GWR just tweeted:

Source: GWR (https://www.gwr.com/about-us/media-centre/news/2019/september/special-gwr-train-run-posts-modern-speed-record)

Disappointed with the changes to Bristol/Yatton (and by extension Bristol/Weston services).

A particularly annoyance is the loss of the 2121. This moves half an hour earlier meaning there is only ~10mins between trains but then an hour gap between 9 and 10pm. A second 1 hour gap to 11pm also remains (the 2306 is always a busy service).

Some meet the team events with the timetable changes in mind.

"This will be an opportunity to meet GWR colleagues and raise any questions – they don’t have to be specifically related to the timetable."

October:

Friday 4 October - Filton Abbey Wood 0700-0930

Tuesday 8th October - Exeter St Davids 0730-1030

Wednesday 9th October - Reading 0700-1000

Thursday 10th October - Bristol Temple Meads 1600-1900

Wednesday 16th October - Slough 0630-1000

Wednesday 16th October - Bristol Parkway 0645-0845

Wednesday 16th October - Bristol Parkway 1630-1830

Thursday 17th October - Exeter Central 1530-1815

Friday 18th October - Westbury 0700-1000

Monday 21st October - Didcot Parkway 0700-1000

Wednesday 23rd October - Chippenham 0700-0930

Thursday 24th October - Oxford 0700-1000

Friday 25th October - Tiverton Parkway 0730-0900

Thursday 31st October - Plymouth 0700-1000


November:

Tuesday 5th November - Gloucester 0615-0915

Wednesday 6th November - Cheltenham Spa 0615-0915

Wednesday 6th November - Maidenhead 0700-1000

Wednesday 6th November - Newton Abbot 0730-1000

Thursday 7th November - Bath Spa 0600-0900

Wednesday 13th November - Twyford 1600-1900

Wednesday 13th November - Truro 0830-1130

Tuesday 19th November - Newbury 0630-1000

Tuesday 19th November - Penzance 1000-1300

Wednesday 20th November - Weston-super-Mare 1500-1800
 
December:

Thursday 5th December - London Paddington 1600-1900

I suppose Newton Abbot will have to do for Torquay and Paignton; the third and fourth biggest towns in Devon and Cornwall.

Regarding the Meet The Manager sessions I believe that there was a session at Paddington on Tuesday this week - The first since 2016 I believe.
I challenged gwr about the promotion or lack thereof for this programme of events as the only event on their website is Gloucester 3 months ago. They conceded that more effort needs to be made and will be promoting these more vigourously and accurately. Or so I’m told.

There was as I walked past it as I arrived at 7.20am although it wasn't entirely clear what it was. To be fair though it looked like they were still setting up.

First time I was aware of it happening and of course that was the day I needed to get into the office on time. Not sure how long it was being run for but they weren't there for my journey home in the evening.

Well, unless there is an almighty last minute u-turn those rumours turned out to be a load of cobblers unfounded...


...and a certain crystal ball could do with another polish.

From GWR - Phil Delaney's presentation on Friday 11th to GWR Stakeholders

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/notallplainsailing.jpg)

Noting electric to Newport by the timetable change, to Cardiff on 6th January 2020. Severn Tunnel excepted - pan down at Pilning and up at Severn Tunnel Junction.  With the 75 mph limit through the tunnel "diesel operation will not effect timekeeping".

Severn Tunnel issues reported as being a short across insulators with a "very strange" substance causing short to earth - not know what it is.  University of Cardiff are researching it and once established what it is (and where it comes from) there will be a need to work out how to best deal with it, then a need to implement those things that have been worked out.  GWR / Network Rail sure it will be done, but no timescale was offered (nor did any member of the audience ask for one in questions).

What did he say specifically about Sunday working? What progress is being made and how?

Acknowledged that they have a risk / still work to do because of established practise.

The story through the day on staffing from 15th December (for all days of the week) had, to my ears, some inconsistencies.  It was suggested that training programs, testing and some inefficient diagrams are completed at that time and all the drivers are then available for trains.  But then another speaker was telling us of 318 (?) people in training to drive, and picked on an example of someone who joined very recently - and I would be pretty sure that that lady will not be able to take a diagram on her own come the new timetable - rather she'll join the contributing workforce at a later date - guessing, perhaps, in the spring.

I would suspect there's a degree of balance here - most programs completed, but some / those which top up the wastage than naturally occurs very much continuing.

So Cornish commuters will no longer be allowed to use the down Sleeper train with the new timetable change. Instead, the first train of the morning with be a Cross-Country service at 07.20 (a revision of the service that is frequently cancelled). So plenty of empty 2+2 seats then.

Not exactly ‘progress’.

(Mods, please move to wherever, sorry!)

A note to refer readers to counter comments in the Night Riveria Refurb thread elsewhere on this forum which gives corrected info.

Talking about "not all plain sailing" and Pilning ... current calls 08:34 and 15:34, calls from the timetable recast change to 08:33 and 14:33.

Local concern from the Pilning team at the new time as it mucks up a number of their suggested trips that use the station.   For example, train from Bristol to Severn Beach, walk to Pilning, pint in The Plough, train home becomes run to Pilning, grab a pint in a disposable plastic 'glass' and try not to spill it as you rush up for the train.

Looks like the reason is the the trains that would have called (now passes) at around 15:30 overtakes a freight that stops in the loop to let it past, and it needs to show a clean pair of heels to let the freight get moving and up through Patchway before the next train comes along.

Pilning Station Group were not informed officially that the freight train will get in the way.
This is the response given to us by GWR on 18 October: -

"We’re making this change because our 1500 Cardiff-Taunton will operate as a 5-car Class 800 train set and these are not able to call at Pilning. So, from Saturday 21st December 2019 onwards, the weekly services at Pilning station will be as follows:
0833 (the 0800 Cardiff Central-Penzance)
1433 (the 1400 Cardiff Central-Taunton)
Thanks again for your email and for the chance to explain."

So we wrote to the Secretary of State for Transport asking him to instruct GWR to reverse the December timetable change for Pilning, etc. - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GxR3oPi7urP_KlxbtTQ1r4yXkTVbuU0w

That's very interesting ... looking at Real Time Trains it does indeed show the 15:00 as "timed for 125 m.p.h class 80x".  It shows the 14:00 as "timed for 90 m.p.h. class 158 (other number listed)" which takes - to the minute - the same elapsed time along at all stops as the 15:00.

I think that the 80x class are programmed for each station they call at - which doors to open, etc ... I recall it being an issue that some stations weren't programmed fully or had to be reprogrammed when platforms were lengthened, and that did not happen overnight.

1. The freight is shown there and certainly a stop at Pilning at 15:34 would hold it up - there could very well be two reasons for not stopping and only one has been officially stated

2. I would suspect that there's no physical problem to stopping for passengers at Pilining, but there may be a software one.   If indeed Pilning has been left out of the stopping points programmed in, a corollary question might be if it was looked out as an oversight, or as a conscious decision.

As far as I know, the SDO mechanism was created exactly for stations like Pilning, so the stop can be programmed in. Some prep work including testing will be required, and that will take time, that's obvious.

I would not say it was either an oversight or a conscious decision made by GWR not to include Pilning into the SDO diagram. If there is no requirement, as such, no decision needs to be made.

A more interesting question would be, whether giving the 15:34 Pilning slot to a freight company was a deliberate move of Network Rail's, or a simple oversight on their behalf. But I'll leave it to the DfT to enquire about, if this is of interest to them.

They would have known months in advance that they plan for 2C81 to be a 5 car IET from December, so no excuse not to programme Pilning into the SDO in that case, even if it wasn't an IET set, there would still be the issue of it causing conflict between the Machen freight service and the introduced half-hourly service on a Saturday from Paddington to Cardiff at Patchway, which I think is probably the main reason.

I was just looking through the timetables/RTT and Maidenhead seems to have lost one of it's busiest morning rush hour trains.. Now you might think that is a good thing (no overcrowding if there is no train e.g.  ;D ;D ) but seriously if that is the case it's going to be interesting..

Currently there are is an 8.02 (22 mins) and an 8.06 (24 mins) both which leave overfull and standing daily even though the 8.02 starts at Twyford.

This is is being replaced by just one train - the 8.02 (22 mins) which is coming from Didcot Parkway..

There are now two (instead of one) fast trains at 7.32 and 7.35 so that will help a bit but I have a sneaking suspicion that there may be a big overcrowding problem on that 8.02.

"Pilning Sir? Computer says no."

"Commuter says ****"

The 08:02 is a 12-car, it's not a train I've had the pleasure of seeing.  Is it really full and standing throughout the whole train, given that it only started at Twyford?  That's 800 or so people on board if it is (based on all seats taken and 10 people standing per carriage). 

Having a longer platform at Maidenhead from December will help spread the passengers out if, as is often the case, part of it has seats available, but if both that and the current 8-car 08:06 are packed then it will cause problems.

The front is full before it gets to Maidenhead and full and standing as it leaves.. The back couple of carriages are probably just full (but not standing) to be honest after Maidenhead.. 

It's worth standing at Paddington when one of these trains arrives to see how many people actually get off for anyone that doubts it's true.

However it still means a full 12 carriage train and a full 8 carriage train are being replaced by one 12 carriage train which isn't just coming from Twyford anymore. It will be interesting. Not interesting enough for me to try it mind as that just doesn't add up.

The one time I've caught it it was packed and I was really surprised considering its 12 coaches. The train before it, the 07.59? though has been fairly quiet although I'm not on it on a regular basis. The main difference being the timing of the Henley trains.

It may be that if the Henley connection is timed differently you could get a more even spread? Although they're only 3 coaches they can be really busy.

I wonder how many of those 800 sit in front of a screen all day? could they do that in say, Pewsey instead?

A fundamental question - "why are we commuting [so much]".   Switching from car to public transport is - where public transport is a success - usually more climate friendly.   Relaxing hours, so that the rush hour peak is less of a peak - is usually going to be more climate and lifestyle friendly again. Reducing commute distances or even working from home a lot of the time are, yet again, more carbon friendly and should make for a better quality of life (social interaction permitting - "the loneliness of the home worker").

Levelling out passenger flows by time of day, and across the network (even along the journey of a individual train) can / could make a massive difference to loading and to economics.

Pictured - on yesterday's 17:45 from Paddington to Swansea ... as it arrived into Swansea.  And for the absence of doubt, this is one of the front carriages that's coming in close to the station's exit.  Then yesterday's 17:36 from Swindon to Westbury ... as it arrived into Trowbridge.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/intoswansea.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/intotrowbridge.jpg)

Personally for me my commute is dictated by the timing of the 'fast' trains. These only run until about 9am in the morning. I'd love to shift my hours but I don't really want to add to my already lengthy commuting time. Later evening trains home are so much better than they use to be (they exist) but still limited and very crowded. Similarly the first 'fast' train home isn't till just before 5 which means when I can get away I tend to wait anyway as that gets me home quicker than an earlier stopping service.

We've also discussed it many times here but more flexible ticketing might encourage better habits. A colleague who comes in from St Albans way has discovered carnet tickets on his line and its transformed his working habits and saved him a lot of money.

Having said that I'm currently working in rural Wales all week and while there's many positives I'm definitely suffering from the 'loneliness of the home worker'. It also makes my job so much harder as while I can VOIP, Zoom and email its still not the same as just going finding someone and having a chat or gathering a couple of people together.

Quick timetable question.

I was about to book my regular Twyford to Carmarthen ticket for December 19th and it looks like the direct train from Paddington/Reading has gone? Is that the case or just a glitch?

It saves me some money but is a much less comfortable journey for the last bit of the trip.

Edit: Doing a search London to Carmarthen shows a direct train at 18.16 but it doesn't appear if I search Twyford to Carmarthen. All options telling me I have to change at Swansea. Now need to work out how to buy a ticket for the journey I want to make with a seat reservation.

Edit 2: Answered my own question. Its non stop to Bristol.  :-[

My answer to this is "My current Manager" who seems to think it's more important for us to be in the office (however long it takes to get there) than the work we do.. I imagine there are a few more like him around.. We have a lot of offshore resource in India and I can chat to them as easily from home as I can from London.. I just need to convince him of that (though my efforts so far haven't worked). Having said that we are under a major review so it will all change in the next 6 months (fingers crossed).

Interesting listening to a conversation between two drivers this morning, how they were discussing how GWR are already aware there are not enough drivers available for the additional services into London from the timetable changes

Look forward to Mark Hopwood's response to that when we do Meet the Managing Director on the 5th of November.

I know someone who is incredibly keen to become a railway driver to the extent that he has chatted to GWR staff at stations, including drivers, to see what he needs to prep up on to successfully apply. I don't know how easy the transition is from Petrol Tanker HGV to railway driver but I would imagine both share a need for consistent presence of mind.

Many dozens of trainees currently going through the training course.

I guess they've got about 6 weeks to get them ready!

I am told paper timetables will be at stations imminently and pdf versions will be on the website over the weekend.

Indeed, paper timetables are available now.

That’s good news. Bit perplexed that if printed timetables are now available at stations why pdfs couldn’t have been placed online sooner, especially as this is such a major timetable change. However a month out is better than it has been of late. Gone are the days when FGW/GWR used to be one of the first TOCs to publish timetables well in advance of a timetable change.

Apparently when people see them online they then try to pick up a paper copy at their local station.  All stations should have them by Monday so hence putting them on line over the weekend makes sense.

In recent years the paper copies have been much later appearing.  There is a danger with the earlier release in that people pick up a copy and think it applies from now but personally I think that’s a risk worth running.  The cover does have the date on it!

Yes I can sort of see the reasons why. I’ve seen other TOCs put them in racks more then a month out with a label denoting that this is the new forthcoming timetable. I think most people understand that.

At least when they do appear online and at stations the GWR  social media team won’t have to keep answering why aren’t they available to view online. GWR have done a great job spreading the word about the new timetable without actually publishing the one thing people want to see...the new timetable!

Hmm.  No sign of the paper copies at Plymouth station just one hour ago....... ::)

Timetables now online on the GWR website.

Good points. And the obverse to the loneliness (and organisational difficulties) of the how worker is the loneliness of the long distance commuter, who spends more time away from home and family than they would like. Somewhere between these two, there is a happy balance – but a lot of us aren't finding it.

GWR isn't the only area getting big timetable changes on December 15th. Something similar (though quite different) is happening on TER Hauts-de-France. An example has got into the news, where the commuter village of Templeuve-en-Pévèle is up in arms - and in a very French way,  First, for a passenger count of 675,000 pa,  they collected over 6000 names in a petition - more than the population, though they do have a bit of a bus interchange there. Then, not having got anything changed, the village's maire resigned in protest, calling it contempt for them by SNCF.

At first sight they have not too much to complain about; they will lose 17 trains from their daily service of 72. (Unlike the next-door villages of Nomain and Ennevelin, which will have one train a day each way to Lille, but now also have a train or two to/from Valenciennes.) But what SNCF are doing is more of a change of philosophy - more regular patterns, or as they put it "mobility simplified, rich, and diverse". No, I'm not sure that's what I'd want either!

There will be four branded types of service (which I assume will be rolled out nationally): CITI (Metro-style services), PROXI (rural stopping), KRONO (regional limited stop) and KRONO+GV (the same but à grande vitesse -whatever that means). So Templeuve's three tph in the peaks, a  mix of stopping patterns with a couple non-stop to Lille in 11 minutes, becomes two tph most of the day, with none non-stop. It's alternating CITI - which all stop - and KRONO - which never do (but with some gaps mid-day).

But the real issue is, I suspect, that so many people will have to rejig complicated daily schedules involving several schools, workplaces, and relatives. It doesn't matter if it's better or worse, just being different leads to a lot of aggravation (and pleased people don't riot, or even complain much).

Having taken a look at my local (B5) ... presentation by GWR is excellent.  This will be a very useful document indeed as a pocket timetable - the right compromise between showing just the local line and adding services to and via Salisbury and Frome.   Mirror at http://www.mrug.org.uk/B5Web20191215.pdf

The Paignton-Exmouth Devon Metro is appalling as most commuters and shoppers will want to go to Exeter Central. One train is held 17 minutes at Dawlish Warren others at Newton Abbot and Exeter St David's so they can get an even time down to Exmouth.

It results in the all stopper Paignton - Exeter being as quick as the non-stopper. This timetable is a joke.

I see the paper timetables have acquired a new symbol: SF, for SuperFast. “Train makes fewer stops than normal. Check before you board to ensure that it stops at your destination.” On the Cotswold Line timetable, it’s applied to the evening peak services which miss out Reading.

(Let’s hope the new timetable doesn’t turn out to be a work of Science Fiction...)

If only GWR would apply that to Friday afternoon services to Plymouth and beyond. All such services are still marked 'Pick Up Only' at Reading, which is blatently ignored. Of course, the problem would then be connections from Gatwick Airport.

T10 (Paddington to Reading and Didcot stoppers) marks in a cyan 'highlighter' background "Anytime ticket required when boarding this train here". However, there are still cross-London journeys where the off-peak return is valid on any train after 9:30.

TS uses the same colour scheme but makes it clear the information is valid for journeys to/from London only.

Maybe there are only a few passengers for whom this information is incorrect, but I can see this being used as 'evidence' to attempt to decline valid tickets.

I wondered whether they had read my comments that it would be simpler to show validity in timetables than the current method - defining complicated lists of veto times and hiding them in restriction codes, in some cases as unpublished restriction lists not visible any where on the NRE site. But maybe, having recently found the need to summarise the evening off-peak validity on a loose sheet, they already knew a clearer guide was needed. As a first attempt, I'd say it is confusing to use the two added colours (plus code A) differently in two two timetables, and then only put the legend in once - and nowhere need the very few pages it's used on, where there's plenty of space to repeat it.

I find the reaction there - in effect that putting this in timetables will somehow lead to RPIs knowing less (gateline staff training is already a problem area) - rather odd. The real issue is that off-peak tickets will now only work on slow trains (at least in the high peak), whereas now almost all fast trains that stop before Reading are also available. So that's all the semifasts, plus a couple of others, taken out. That is a major change in the meaning of "off-peak" from now, far bigger than the removal of rather more favourable local time limits at some outer stations. That may be popular with Maidehead's commuters, though.

Has anybody managed to download a copy of T7?  It seems to be blank when I open the file.

Looking at the other timetables, SuperFast appears to indicate a train that doesn't stop between Paddington and Chippenham (more often, Bristol Parkway), or Paddington and Oxford. There are no SuperFast services on the Berks & Hants or on the Golden Valley line.

Edit to add: "SuperFast" is a bit of an unimaginative brand name. Historic GWR usage seems to favour "Express", but I guess that could get confusing given that all the trains are InterCity Express Trains. "Flyer" a la Cheltenham would have been nice!

Working fine here now.

Yes, thanks.  Seems to be working now.

There doesn't seem to be a timetable booklet that summarises the service between T7 and K.  i.e. if you want to change into/out of the new stopping service between Reading and Taunton to/from the far Southwest on the non-stop services you need to cross reference in both books.

New timetables in the racks at Paddington. One word, impressed.

Also the main timetable from Taunton to Plymouth/Paignton no longer shows the local service between Exeter and Newton Abbot/Torbay, this now being in a separate timetable D1 (although this is included in booklet D).

Just found the one I searched for.  Its D DL.

On the subject of the new TT, when would it be reasonable to expect Network Rail to get the full GB-wide PDF version on their website? My answer to that would be "once an Anytime return has validity extending to the new timetable" - i.e. now.

Is there any sign of it appearing?

It usually appears a week or two out from the start of the new timetable.

For some reason GWR still want to point people to https://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/pockettimetable/search when promoting the new timetable on social media.

See tweet below:
https://twitter.com/gwrhelp/status/1199660079668224000?s=21

Where someone asks are the pdfs available yet to which the answer given is yes you can download a pdf here https://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/pockettimetable/search

Person comes back saying they know about that but want a pdf of the full timetable. Knowing they are up on the GWR website, and have been since mid November, I post the link to the timetables page and suggest to GWR help that why not put the link to the new timetables on the 2019 page https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/timetable-2019 so everyone can find them easily.

Not long after my tweet, which has been deleted, and not by me, the person has now been directed by GWR help to the page where the new timetable pdfs can be found which is what they asked for in the first place.

Please help me out to understand why having gone to the effort of publishing the timetables online and making them available at stations in good time for the timetable change that GWR are not updating this page  https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/timetable-2019 so people can easily find the new timetable pdfs.

Why don’t GWR want people to find the new timetables on their website?

Also @GWRhelp I don’t appreciate my tweets being deleted when I was trying to help one of your customers and make a helpful and not critical suggestion  >:(

GWR can't delete your tweets - but the new Twitter interface is very counter-intuitive and tends to randomly hide stuff. Your tweet's still there in the replies at https://twitter.com/jamesvertigan/status/1199662243677429760 (but whether you get to see it probably depends on browser, mobile vs desktop, phase of the moon, etc. etc.).

Thanks for pointing that out Richard. Yes I use mobile Twitter.

And apologies to @GWRhelp.

The only slight issue is they in the racks near Platform 1 with no large sign to say they are the new ones.   The current ones are in the racks near Burger King.

Today I noted someone looking at a new timetable and glancing up at the boards.  When I asked him when he was travelling his reply was "This afternoon, if I can find the right train"

What is the situation with the availability of new printed timetables?

Not available at Reading and when I asked was told there was a financial penalty if they were displayed before the 15th!

Not sure about GWR but the full Network Rail version is now on the website.

None at Twyford either. I was renewing my season ticket (sigh...) and asked about them and was told I could only have the current timetable. The customer service person seemed quite weary about it though so I suspect he'd been asked a lot as the old timetables were much more prominent than I remember them being.

Mirror at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/nrtt20/ - needs proper formatting / presentation

OK - links should work from our station comparator unless table numbers have changed.
Example - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/smr/SRD.html

A note of caution regarding the new national timetable. There are a number of errors present and able 17 is missing.  Table 17 will be added and a number of other tables updated early in the new year

Well they were on display at Paddington when I passed through on the 18th of November. I’ve also seen other TOCs putting out new timetables a month ahead of schedule clearly displaying a note on the racks that these are the forthcoming timetables.

Talking to someone from GWR today and they are convinced that they are miles away from being able to run the new timetable.  This Sunday coming, may well be a particularly bad day for staff shortages.

I’m bracing myself for the fact that this could well be the case for my journey home from London on Sunday evening.

Apologies if this has been asked/answered before, although I don't recall seeing it...

In the new timetable racks at PAD, timetable B6 is shown on the accompanying poster as 'London to Swindon', but there are never any B6 printed timetables there.

On the GWR website, B6 is 'Bristol Temple Meads to Bristol Parkway'
https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/train-times

I'm confused. Can anyone clarify? Is there an individual 'London to Swindon' printed timetable?

Try TS

Thanks - I have seen TS but wondered if, as the Paddington poster suggests, there was also intended to be a Swindon-only version?

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but the Night Riviera Sleeper is now Pick up Only from Penzance to Plymouth & Set Down ONLY from Plymouth to Penzance, which means the first Calling point (to alight) from Penzance is Totnes,  The first Down service from Plymouth to Penzance (which follows the Sleeper)  arrives St Erth just as the St Ives train GOES. 
And in the St Ives Branch timetable the Second train from St Ives has a connection arriving on Mondays at 08:49 which is the down Sleeper so is the sleeper set down only at St Erth or NOT  ???

Posting mainly for the record, as it is woefully late, but here are some observations from the first working day of the new timetable.

I started my journey by travelling on the 06:27 from Chippenham which runs non stop to London.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/cpmfast.jpg)

Plenty of manual announcements on the platform and aboard the train warning people the next stop would be Paddington.

The 10 car service certainly wasn't crowded and very soon we were passing through Swindon on the middle road.  However as we approached Didcot Parkway we slowed and eventually came to a stand at Foxhall Junction.  The preceding stopping service from Bristol was still in the platform in Didcot waiting for a late running service from the North Cotswolds to cross in front of it from the avoiding lines.   An early illustration of how little room for error there is in the new timetable.   We then followed the pair along the Thames Valley before overtaking the train from Bristol as it called at Reading.

We were then switched to the relief lines due to the axle counter failures at Slough West and we were quickly in a queue to get past.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/slowest.jpg)

It was pretty much stop start for the rest of the journey before we arrived at 07:46 - 17 minutes late.

We came in on platform 6 - one of the first since it was released by changes to the Heathrow Express services which now use only platform 7.

There were a couple of announcements to avoid the "larger than usual gap" at the platform edge.   At first glance it does look a little bigger but I can think of places where the divide is bigger.  (Bristol Parkway on the down springs to mind.)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/plat62.jpg) (http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/plat63.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/plat61.jpg)

Once off the train it quickly became apparent that the problems at Slough were having an effect on departing services with many delayed or cancelled

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/padcnx.jpg)

My original plan was to get the 09:15 super fast service to Bristol Parkway but I quickly surmised this was unlikely to run so got the preceding stopping one which left some 15 minutes late after being quickly turned round from an incoming service.    With working electronic reservations it showed one of the advantages of the IETs over the HSTs - which would have been forced to dispense with seat labels.

On an uneventful journey we clawed back a little of the delay by Bristol Parkway and was in plenty of time to catch one of the super fast trains back.  There is the potential for confusion at Parkway between these trains and the ones which call at Swindon, Didcot and Reading.  They leave only eight minutes apart and due to delays the super fast came in just ahead of the stopper with the platform CIS only updating as the train was running in.  Again there were numerous announcements but there is always someone who misses them for one reason or another.

The problems at Slough were almost fixed as we reached the area and we arrived in Paddington only four minutes late.   The service, which started at Weston-Super-Mare, was formed of five coaches and was well filled but I wasn't aware of anyone standing.  Not sure if it was planned to be five but certainly it was able to cope.

A bit of a novelty passing through stations where previously trains had called but how much they will draw commuters from either Chippenham or Bristol to use them specifically I am not sure given the frequency of the overall timetable.  If it happens to be the next one due in when you arrive fair enough but people are unlikely to wait for it specifically if there is a slightly slower one just in front of it.

A very good morning peak.  PPM over the GWR network at 92% currently.

Driving along at 0815 this morning, I was listening to Magic Radio (having tried a few others readily available on my car radio) when there was a commercial announcing the new rail timetable on December 15 ...

Four weeks too late, I thought, but I don't suppose there's any harm in reminding the occasional rail traveller who might not have realised.

Marlburian

I've heard the Radio Ad about the December Time Table change this week on Classic FM, you would think they (gWr)  would have updated the ad, just makes gWr look like a poor bunch.