Great Western Coffee Shop

Went to Reading on Monday and Exmouth on Friday from Temple Meads.

I notice that platforms are zoned numerically for the IETs at Temple Meads, Bath and Reading and perhaps other stations to show where carriages stop.
Rather confusing in that the carriages are labelled alphabetically and then not necessarily in sequence. I had to watch the scrolling display go through several times to work out where my carriage stopped.

At Bristol and Exeter the scrolling carried an extra line of information that I had not seen before along the lines of  'The train is currently between station x and y, or y and z' and it was  updating as it came closer. I think this is a good, helpful move.

We’ve had the scrolling message “the train is currently between…” at Reading for a while.  Yesterday as I waited for the 1123 hrs Reading – Pangbourne the scrolling message said “your train may be delayed because of a late running freight train”.  Bit of an understatement - in fact the freight train in question had been sat failed on the DR at Tilehurst since 1000 hrs. 

Anyway, the P12 platform staff were helpful and before we left we all knew the train would run non-stop to Didcot Parkway and passengers for intermediate stations could catch a train back.

There were 5 of us in our little group in coach 3, none of whom (apart from me) could understand the logic of what was happening.  I pointed out the failed rubbish train in Tilehurst as we passed on the DM, and in answer to a question as to how we’d pass it on the way back explained that we’d be on the other line.  We stuck together at Didcot Parkway (one lady in particular was looking for reassurance etc), and as the Driver walked back he reassured the worriers that the train they’d just got off was the train back to Cholsey etc at 1202.

1.   Never underestimate the lack of railway knowledge most of us regular posters take for granted.
2   Although us local passengers were inconvenienced, running the stopper non-stop Reading- Didcot was the right call. The DM was getting quite congested as the DR had been shut for 90 minutes.

I'm highlighting that bit to do a specific like.

The typical passenger knows far less than the typical member here, who (with exceptions) knows less than the typical person working for the train or infrastructure operator.

That does not mean that the typical passenger is 'lower' in any way - why should they need to know (or be interested) in the internal stuff - just like I don't need to know how my instant coffee is made.  Those "typical passengers" are fare better informed in other fields.

But it is a general failing of the rail industry to inform properly the passenger, and indeed the wannabe passenger, in a clear, straightforward and understandable way.  Whether that's a failure of the information systems, a failure of the system they're trying to describe which has inexplicable elements, or both ... I leave to one side.

There is no harm and a great deal of good in providing extra backup information for the more fully informed user (such as ourselves) provided that it does not dilute the headline and day to day message for the typical user.

My departure board gives the train's latest location too....  ;D

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/ukd.jpg)

I shall respond in more detail to Graham's post later as I am just off to the Chippenham Bus Rally, and Graham may well be running the risk of bumping in to me there  ;D

However, in direct response to Bob's post, with respect the display photographed epitomises the problem as far as I am concerned. The railway is trying to be helpful but is actually giving the average passenger no information at all.

If you are an ordinary passenger, and especially one born after 1964, where the devil is Challow?? Challow station closed in 1964 and there is actually no such place on the map with that name. There is a West Challow and an East Challow, the closest of which is a couple of miles south of the railway, just off the main road between Faringdon and Wantage. I'd wager that there are people living in Faringdon who wouldn't know where "Challow" was in railway terms, let alone an ordinary passenger travelling from Bicester to Llanelli or whatever.

"This train is currently between Didcot and Swindon" would provide worthwhile information; "last report Challow at 2020" does not.

To be fair the board I have is aimed at enthusiasts.   The average rail passenger is not going to have one of these on their wall at home.  If it was a "public board" I would totally agree.

For me, any display which is scrolling should have minimal specific information.  Where it goes, where it calls, the time it calls there, what time it's due, and formation information.  Not messages such as this train is currently between x and y.  That information is useful if listed at the end of displays that can show all of that sort of thing and the above at the same time.  Those interested can then refer to it if they wish.

Of course everyone should know about Challow !
It is AFAIK the only railway station that has a design of pressure lamp named after the station.
The Tilley lamp company used to make a wide variety of pressure lamps that were used to illuminate stations and other places in the absence of a suitable gas or electricity supply.

A special design was produced for the original GWR, known as the challow lamp after the station at which they were first used. These lamps had a reflector shaped so as to direct the light up and down a station platform with minimum waste of light in other directions.

They worked in the same way as the still popular Tilley storm lantern, but had a much larger oil and air capacity so as to permit of all night burning without attention.
The oil reservoir was shaped like a lifebuoy and placed ABOVE the light source, which could therefore give a light directly below the lamp. A Tilley storm lantern gives no light directly downwards on account of the oil container casting a shadow below the light source.
Usually placed at a significant height and with a small hand operated winch to lower the lamp to a convenient height for filling, pumping up and lighting.
Suitable for use in the open or under a station canopy.

At least one station on the WSR still had until recently, and probably still has, one of the winches used for raising and lowering a Tilley lamp

Whilst I agree with your point from the perspective of providing waiting passengers with information, as a local to the area I can assure you that Challow Station is very clearly signposted locally and is also signed either side of the bridge on the A417 (though not marked as such on OS maps).

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6425362,-1.5076157,3a,37.5y,37.43h,89.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy10xxQ31Y3ZUo33fgojAAg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6425362,-1.5076157,3a,37.5y,37.43h,89.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy10xxQ31Y3ZUo33fgojAAg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.616488,-1.492912,3a,75y,165.14h,100.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNkIO0LcTky_Hmx6Hf_HwuQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.616488,-1.492912,3a,75y,165.14h,100.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNkIO0LcTky_Hmx6Hf_HwuQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

Before Digital Doris took over station announcements at Didcot it was not unusual for staff to announce something like the next train to Paddington is just passing Steventon or was delayed at Challow/Uffington/Shrivenham despite these stations having been closed since 1964. Somehow we all managed!

Good to see you earlier ... and excellent opportunity to photograph people watching and photographing buses ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/cbrd19_02.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/cbrd19_01.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/cbrd19_03.jpg)

On the subject of this thread, it should be noted how the buses were coded at Chippenham Bus Station.

"Gloucester" meant the bus was going to Derry Hill
"Devizes" meant the bus was going to Lacock
"Brislington" meant the bus was going to Corsham
"Sunderland" meant the bus was going to Chippenham Railway Station and college.

and that translation should be clear and obvious to any members of the public present!

In response to broadgage, well there we are. A few weeks short of 67 years on this planet and I'd never heard of all that. Every day is a schoolday, as they say...


OK I take the point about Challow Station appearing on local nameboards, but I'm still not sure I'd have lost that wager as I said "I'd wager that there are people living in Faringdon who wouldn't know where "Challow" was in railway terms" not "there aren't any people living in Faringdon" etc :)

On your second point, I am sure that you "all" managed, as long as you are talking about railway-geography-savvy people waiting at Didcot who live in the area. If we are talking about non-railway-savvy passengers from out of the area I still maintain they wouldn't have a clue what those announcement meant.

A couple of years ago my mother-in-law and her other daughter were over from South Africa and travelling from Edinburgh to Kings Cross by train. Not that it actually happened, but if the Catering Manager had come on and said "the buffet car will be closing after we've passed Werrington," what the devil would that have meant to them?

For those of you who are not certain what a Challow lamp looks like ,
This may through some light on the matter🙂

https://classicpressurelamps.com/threads/challow.227/.

Crikey WP.  There seems to be a website for EVERYTHING these days..... ;D

I am very surprised at that.  A settlement grew up around it (some 2 miles distant from either East or West Challow) and that settlement is still known as Challow station. It has a Faringdon postal address "Challow Station, Faringdon SN7 8NT" and is on the main road from Faringdon to Wantage. It was also widely advertised locally when the road was shut for many weeks to replace the bridge as part of the electrification works.  So if there are people living there who hadn't heard of it I think they need to get out more in their local area. 

When it first opened it was the terminus of the railway (for about 18 months) and was called "Faringdon Road". 

OK I concede the point. Absolutely everyone in Faringdon, and their dogs, know where Challow station is. Except people like:

* The lad I went to school with who didn't know where Keynsham was despite the fact that it was 4 miles away and an hourly bus service to and from the place went past his front door.

* My other half who, despite living here for 12 years, can still get lost driving from here to Sainsbury's on the other side of town

:)

Knowing which town that is ... even the bus drivers get lost.

There is a serious issue in this thread about information provision. The need for the 'headlines' to be easily understood and compete for the very rail-unaware, yet with a layer of icing on that cake for the railnerds to provide useful data for [us].

The train for Newport was shown as on time on the board, and "at Challow". Really the "on time" was right for the typical passenger; the "at Challow" really didn't add anything as - err - that's where you might have expected the on-time train to be.  Arguably more useful to give intermediate stations and expected arrival times after it left Swindon.

But ... displays of rail information are tailorable these days from the base information, and "at Challow" is probably of more interest to BobM than "calls at Bristol Parkway and Newport only. This train does not call at Patchway, Pilning or Severn Tunnel Junction".

Perhaps we need a separate thread for these everythings!

http://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org
https://www.derwentart.com/en-gb/c/about/company/derwent-pencil-museum
https://www.pylonofthemonth.org

Despite my Avatar I deny all knowledge of the first one....... :P

Certainly no information is better than wrong, non-useful or non-understandable information (which we all know is not uncommon on platform CIS’s), so taking account of this and the  space limitations on the screens I favour short clear messages – I agree with Industry Insider on this.  So…:

“on time” (or x minutes late) instead of “passing Challow” or “between Twyford and Reading”  (although it could be argued that the expected departure time already gives this information)
or
“this train may be delayed – please listen for announcements” instead of specific details of signalling, OHLE, train etc problems.

Announcements can give more detailed and probably more up to date information as oral messages are easier to deliver quickly eg “this train will not call at Pangbourne because a broken down (not failed, which is a railway term) train is blocking one line at Tilehurst.  Passengers for Pangbourne should travel to Goring and catch the next train back to Pangbourne.” 

I agree with the first bit of your sentence but not necessarily with the second. I  don't think there is any need for announcements to be tailored to "railnerds" at all, because we all have our own ways of finding out what is going on, be it modern mobile wi-fi as Realtime Trains and other railway-related sites get checked, or the old fashioned ways (although many are not as easy as they used to be given the demise of droplights) such as looking out for signal aspects ourselves, or spotting "C" and "T" boards as we passed them, or noticing an unusually heavy brake application when we felt one. I also feel that announcing too much technical information (term used loosely to encompass all things of enthusiast interest only) may only serve to further confuse the ordinary passenger.

My personal gripes are intercom systems where one or more PA handsets aren't working properly leading to inaudible announcements, and automated systems that tell lies. I shall now expand on that statement  ;D

I have come across quite a few cases in the last year or so when I have been unable to decipher what is being said over the intercom, and I have brought it to the attention of passing train managers and catering staff whilst on the train. Sometimes I have been met with disbelief (such as a guy pushing a trolley through an 800 last Sunday who clearly had no problem in projecting his voice) and I have to tell them that whilst my eyesight is failing my ears are as good as they have ever been. Unfortunately the staff making the announcements cannot hear themselves through the intercom and so simply will not know that they are using a dodgy handset unless someone tells them. And it is beginning to become apparent that maintenance and testing of these devices is not being carried to a high enough standard at the depot. I have to say that I have only found this problem on GWR and XC trains but that is not to say that they don't exist elsewhere, just that I haven't observed any instances.

As regards automated systems that tell lies, the ones on the GWR 800s appear in my experience to be the worst, closely followed by HEX that often just seem to display algebraic calculations rather then words... Once upon a time I was on an 800 from Chippenham to Bristol and, on just coming out of the western portal of Box Mill Lane tunnel, the automated announcement and the display in the coach told us that this train  was bound for Paddington and the next stop would be Reading. I just wondered how many passengers who got on at Swindon or Chippenham were now having kittens because they thought they were on the wrong train. Another example was again last Sunday when travelling from Padington to Chippenham, when the automated display in the coach got stuck at "We are now approaching Swindon" and was still saying so as I got off 17 miles later.

Conversely on the other side of the coin, a couple of years ago I was on a Swansea to Paddington during an engineering occupation, diverted after a Swindon reversal via Melksham and the Berks & Hants. The train manager almost took on the role of a tour guide, explaining why we would be going more slowly than usual on the single line beyond Chippenham, pointing out the Westbury White Horse as we passed and also the Kennet & Avon canal around Bedwyn. I somehow doubt he was tested for that during route learning!   ;D

  The 'Zonal Announcements' finally arrived at Totnes yesterday.
  Initial reaction was a bit confusing, although you could not fault the accuracy of the
  announcements. I think if  anyone who listens will find them useful.

  Being Totnes you could add ;-  Twilight zone for those who haven't got a clue.
                                               Area 51  for those on another planet.

  Being Totnes you could add ;-  Twilight zone for those who haven't got a clue.
                                               Area 51  for those on another planet.

[/quote]

From a few years back

And a year or two earlier:

On Tuesday at Reading the scrolling display for the 1625 stopper to Didcot on P12, showed train on time and currently between Twyford and Reading. At 1623 the starter signal changed to yellow with first feather (ie routed to Feeder main), so obviously a freight was coming first: screen still showed 1625 on time.  An empty stone train came though at 1625 (IMHO moving quite quickly seeing as he was on a single yellow!): the 1625 to Didcot followed and eventually left 6 minutes late.  Worth noting that there was a “human intervention” apology for the delay on the station PA.

This illustrates again that driving the screens from the timetable and track circuits without human intervention has its limitations when trains run out of course, which is of course the time when passengers most need accurate information. 

I’ve no idea why the empty stone train was running out of course. However, for the screens to show a train as on time when it’s clearly not going to be isn’t helpful.  Worth noting that the statement “the train is currently between Twyford and Reading” was certainly true, the issue was that it was stationary for about 5 minutes.

Finally, the information on number of coaches was not shown on the scrolling display.  This can help passengers spread out and reduce dwell times, so I hope this is not a permanent feature of the latest scrolling screens.

Don't rely on the scrolling information to find your carriage. Twice on last three journeys to London I have found myself at the wrong end of the platform for my reserved seat as the information has been wrong.

The one that seems to happen particularly frequently (at least on the up Capitals United) is that the information screens decide that First Class is at the rear of the train, which turns out to be wrong about half of the time; interestingly, when the information screens decide it is at the front, they are invariably right – so I deduce that they must default to the train being in reverse formation, which is very strange.

The same, in both cases, at Tiverton Parkway and Exeter St Davids. I had business close to Exeter Central station yesterday, so caught the train from Tiverton. At P1 at Exeter St Dave, there stood an Exmuff-bound two-car pacer, still locked less than 5 minutes before departure, with quite a crowd around each door. The CIS, and the announcements, said that the train consisted of 4 carriages, which raised general amusement and comments of the "Wrong sort of counting" ilk. I had a crafty look at RTT, and found that the train from Barnstaple had just passed Newton St Cyres, and was heading into P1. Which is how, after it had joined up to the waiting two cars and all the passengers had disembarked, I ended up with my own carriage.