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All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: grahame on May 28, 2019, 18:34:57



Title: New uses for pacers
Post by: grahame on May 28, 2019, 18:34:57
From a usually reliable source (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/competition-will-breathe-new-life-into-an-old-pacer-train)

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Competition will breathe new life into an old Pacer train

Community groups will be invited to put forward ideas to reuse an old Pacer train carriage.

Rail Minister calls for ideas on how a Pacer train could be renovated to serve communities

An old Pacer could be transformed into a community space, cafe or new village hall



Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 28, 2019, 18:45:37
Hows about something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hTvGTkDpsI


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: rogerw on May 28, 2019, 18:54:37
Hows about something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hTvGTkDpsI

Perhaps off the coast at Dawlish to reduce the wave height


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: Celestial on May 28, 2019, 18:58:02
I can think of a few stations with fairly inadequate waiting areas. Cut a few holes in the side of one and turn the seats around would create a lot more under cover waiting area.

Or, stack one up on blocks with some steps on either side to create a footbridge for Pilning.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: broadgage on May 28, 2019, 20:03:44
From a usually reliable source (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/competition-will-breathe-new-life-into-an-old-pacer-train)

Quote
Competition will breathe new life into an old Pacer train

Community groups will be invited to put forward ideas to reuse an old Pacer train carriage.
Rail Minister calls for ideas on how a Pacer train could be renovated to serve communities
An old Pacer could be transformed into a community space, cafe or new village hall

Very silly idea IMHO.
A purpose made mobile home or prefabricated building would almost certainly be cheaper and more satisfactory.
The great cost of providing community facilities is largely due to the land value, the planning process, permits and permissions, and providing access.
The actual structure is often cheap.
Who wants a rusty old pacer that is poorly insulated and lets in the rain, and is the wrong shape, when a good used modular building can be purchased for a few thousand pounds.

BTW, I recently purchased TWO large porta-huts for a total of £3,000 including delivery, not for myself.
Both ready for use and now being lived in without any significant extra work or conversion.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 28, 2019, 21:27:52
Oooh! Oooh! I know! Please sir! We could convert them into... buses!


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: martyjon on May 28, 2019, 21:31:17
The Yuf of Yate would love one placed on the grassed area next to their Armidillo Cafe so they could sit and chat with friends over a coffee or pepsi and the playgroups of Yate would love one placed in their compounds so the under school age kids could learn and teach their parents how rail travel works. Yate having a near neighbour of Leyhill Open Prison could enlist the Prison Authority to allow prisoners under supervision to fit suitable/modify controls to synthesis engine noise/doors closings/next station announcements using a low voltage  (12 volt) power supply. The DfT are not that benevolent however to give the pacers away, to pay for low loader transport to a chosen location and make a cash contribution to enable the works I have mentioned to take place so they'll just send them to a recognised scrapyard and get their £100 a car scrap value and the vision of pacers will be lost forever.   


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: grahame on May 29, 2019, 15:07:28
From The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/29/pacer-trains-village-halls-send-down-south) by Helen Pidd

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It was one of those press releases so silly I had check I wasn’t about to fall for some ridiculous prank: could the department for transport (DfT) really be heralding an “exciting” new plan to offer northern towns the chance to bid for a knackered old Pacer train to turn into “a community space, cafe or new village hall”?

I refreshed my browser, checked the URL didn’t include the second level domain joke.uk, and gasped. It was real.

I know how she feels ... I had to double check too.

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As a very regular rail passenger in the north of England, I often have the extreme displeasure of travelling on Pacer trains. Famously cobbled together on the cheap, using the shell of a Leyland bus welded to a freight wagon frame, they went out of service in the south-east of England many years ago, but the government has allowed successive private rail companies to keep them rumbling on in the north.

So "the north" looks to "the south east" with a degree of envy, and completely ignores the south west (and south Wales) where pacers are still running too.   That's how low a priority's been given to lines in our area that don't serve London!

And yet ...  what are people looking for?   Frequency, route capacity, reliability; more comfort and higher speeds but only as the journey length increases.  If you offered the people of my home town of Melksham a choice between the service proposed for 2020, and a regular service of these converted old buses from Swindon every 30 minutes, alternating services carrying on beyond Westbury to Southampton Airport and to Yeovil Junction, I suspect many would go for the latter.   It's purely hypothetical of course ... you'ld need to put in capacity relief between Chippenham and Trowbridge and take on further staff.   And it would be politically incorrect too ... it might work too well.   And anyone for whom the 07:52 is too early would far prefer to wait for the comfortable train at 10:22 with power points and Wifi than go up in the older banger at 08:22, 08:52, 09:22 or 09:52 wouldn't they?    Or on the way back, missing the 15:07, isn't it much better to wait for a nice train at 17:27 than have a converted bus at 15:37, 16:17, or 16:57 to take you home?


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: rogerw on May 29, 2019, 17:05:50
I'm not aware that Pacers ever worked in the southeast


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: ellendune on May 29, 2019, 17:18:54
Oooh! Oooh! I know! Please sir! We could convert them into... buses!

Or scrap metal


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: johnneyw on May 29, 2019, 18:29:12
I have a bit of a respect for the role the Pacer played in providing extra capacity quickly. Without them I doubt if a lot of current services would have been achievable/sustainable for a good many years.
It seems a shame that at least some of them cannot find a use where there are still shortages of available stock. After all, an old Pacer providing a service is so much better than a non existent trainset providing a non existent service.

Off course, I know it's not as simple as that as there are servicing and gauge issues (among others) to take into consideration but at a time when rolling stock hardly in surplus, it seems a pity that they can't have a last hurrah somewhere.




Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 29, 2019, 18:42:56
Missile targets?


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: broadgage on May 29, 2019, 20:49:43
Missile targets?

Not just yet I hope !
In the near term they are still needed to carry passengers, better a seat on a pacer than standing on something else, or no train at all.

When no longer needed I hope that a handful are preserved. Then the rest should be stripped of re-usable components before scrapping. Including use for target practice by HM forces.
Apart from preserving a few in running order, it is probably worth keeping a few for the film and tv industry to destroy in making adventure movies etc.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: grahame on July 12, 2019, 11:41:03
From ACoRP (https://communityrail.org.uk/dft-pacer-comp-july19/)

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Community groups in the North can now submit their plans and ideas on how an old Pacer carriage could be converted into a vibrant public asset, as the Department for Transport (DfT) officially launches its Pacer competition today at Bolton Station (11 July 2019).

School children from St. Catherine’s Primary School in Bolton were among the first to pitch their ideas to Rail Minister Andrew Jones, as they drew up their ideas for how the Pacers could be useful in the future. Freya showed the minister her idea for the ‘time traveller train’, a museum and classroom where people could learn about the history of Bolton. Millie suggested using an old carriage for a kitchen and pizza stand, while Lauren wanted to convert a pacer into a greenhouse to grow vegetables.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: chuffed on July 12, 2019, 12:01:07
Get a few old pacers down to Bristol City Centre next week. Ask the XR protestors to demonstrate how many can fit into a carriage standing..lock the doors and wait for the protests...and wait for them to pass out through lack of oxygen. :o


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: mjones on July 12, 2019, 13:17:44
Get a few old pacers down to Bristol City Centre next week. Ask the XR protestors to demonstrate how many can fit into a carriage standing..lock the doors and wait for the protests...and wait for them to pass out through lack of oxygen. :o

Is this supposed to be a joke?


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: chuffed on July 12, 2019, 13:20:32
Agree it would be funny, if it wasn't already so true. For XR protestors read passengers, sorry customers. My last journey on a 142 from Leeds to York via Harrogate and Knaresbororugh was just like that.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: eXPassenger on July 12, 2019, 14:38:29
Could they be arranged in Whitehall as new accommodation for the DfT?  I am sure they would find them luxurious.

Any overflow could be placed in an IET with a non existent trolley service.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: grahame on July 21, 2019, 13:06:26
And yet ...  what are people looking for?   Frequency, route capacity, reliability; more comfort and higher speeds but only as the journey length increases.  If you offered the people of my home town of Melksham a choice between the service proposed for 2020, and a regular service of these converted old buses from Swindon every 30 minutes, alternating services carrying on beyond Westbury to Southampton Airport and to Yeovil Junction, I suspect many would go for the latter. 

Looks like I'm not alone in those thoughts ... from "up north" ...

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IMHO they can keep the pacers on my line I use if it means they actually send a number of carriages that fit us all on.

Quote
I would understand keeping some as backups as new trains come on, I'd even be okay if they added more trains per hour.

Yes please.   Won't happen, of course, because it's not "policy"  ;D ;D.   "They" would far rather provide a nice train every 2 and a half hours than a bus on rails every 30 minutes.   

But just watch if a bus on rails was provided 4 times in 2.5 hours and then a "nice" train for the current service.   I doubt many people would let the bus on rails leave and say "no, I'll wait for the nice train in 30 minutes".


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: johnneyw on July 21, 2019, 21:05:10
It would be interesting if the August Meet the Manager hour brushed on this subject.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: grahame on December 12, 2019, 06:03:25
From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2019/12/angel-trains-to-offer-pacers-to-heritage-railways-and-emergency-services.html)

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Angel Trains has announced that it has plans to offer Class 142 pacer trains to heritage railways and the emergency services following their withdrawal from service with Northern.

The proceeds from sales to heritage railways and the emergency services will all go to charity.

The Class 142 Pacer DMUs were built between 1985 and 1987. Since then, they have been refurbished and upgraded to offer a low-cost solution to train operators and routes where otherwise they might not have a train service at all.

The Pacers are due off-lease from Northern imminently. Angel Trains has said that it recognises the need for modernisation of Britain’s railways and has said it does not have any plans to re-lease any Pacers to any other operators.

The leasing company has 83 x 2-car Class 142 Pacer units in operation and is offering a small number of vehicles to the below organisations

Emergency services – all proceeds will be donated to a charity of the organisation’s choice
Heritage Railways – all proceeds will be donated to Angel Trains’ charity of choice, Railway Children
Additionally, the National Railway Museum at York is to receive one Class 142, allowing future enthusiasts to look back on the importance of the Pacer.

All remaining trains that are not set aside for further use by emergency services, heritage railways or community railways will be scrapped.

What happened to the DfT's competition, or do all winners count as being in these three categories?

And the proceeds of selling the rest (all but a small number of vehicles) for scrap will be ploughed back into Angel Train's business / balance sheet?  ;D ;D


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: CyclingSid on December 12, 2019, 07:04:23
Another DFQ, what would the emergency services want a pacer for?


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 12, 2019, 07:49:22
Training on things like emergency evacuation I would imagine.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: broadgage on December 12, 2019, 10:02:09
The film industry might buy a few, for blowing up or otherwise wrecking in the making of adventure movies.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: broadgage on December 12, 2019, 12:54:34
Perhaps "top gear" might buy a pacer at scrap price, fit rubber tyres and try and drive it on a road ? No dafter than their famous "caravan train" episode which certainly made me laugh.
Steering would be an interesting challenge, but something could no doubt be improvised, perhaps involving separate brakes for the left hand and right hand wheels.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: stuving on December 12, 2019, 15:29:47
Perhaps "top gear" might buy a pacer at scrap price, fit rubber tyres and try and drive it on a road ? No dafter than their famous "caravan train" episode which certainly made me laugh.
Steering would be an interesting challenge, but something could no doubt be improvised, perhaps involving separate brakes for the left hand and right hand wheels.

Is it not possible to take the superstructure of a railway coach and fit it to the chassis of a bus? Or has someone thought of that before...


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: Umberleigh on December 12, 2019, 18:18:01
Some great comments

I remember when growing up that many of the old wooden bodied freight wagons (box cars?) had been removed from their undercarriage and found a new life as garden sheds. Many of these ended up in gardens miles from the nearest station.

Sadly no-one want want their garden shed roof to leak like a Pacer, so that’s a no-no...


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: Bmblbzzz on December 13, 2019, 18:19:45
I know some people who run a glamping site near Evesham, with yurts and similar. One of their accommodation options is a converted box car. Southern Railway, IIRC. It looks rather nice inside.


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: grahame on December 13, 2019, 18:34:56
I know some people who run a glamping site near Evesham, with yurts and similar. One of their accommodation options is a converted box car. Southern Railway, IIRC. It looks rather nice inside.

Someone have a chat with Lizzie (https://www.railholiday.co.uk) and I'm sure she could do something amazing. One of these years we'll make it to St Germans or Hayle. Hopefully before they have class 803 (IET sleeper) carriages retired there!


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: grahame on January 17, 2020, 07:03:33
From CitiUK (https://ciltuk.org.uk/News/Latest-News/ArtMID/6887/ArticleID/24926/Community-projects-across-north-compete-to-win-Pacers)

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Community groups and charities across the north are in the running to win a decommissioned Pacer train as the government run Transform a Pacer competition comes to a close.

Entrants range from radio stations to local hospitals and the winners will be chosen based on the benefits they can bring to the wider community. Ideas have included converting the carriage into a wildlife classroom to teach the wider community about the local environment, turning the carriage into a local heritage centre that will tell the story of the history of the railways in the region and a library’s fantasy grotto for children.

The competition is part of the long-awaited nationwide withdrawal of Pacer trains from the rail network after over 30 years of service.

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said: "The winners of this competition will give a handful of Pacers a future serving local communities in a new and exciting way.

"The Pacers have served communities in the north for 3 decades. But in that time they have divided opinions and they have become a symbol of underinvestment in the north.

"As we level up the economy in the north we are phasing Pacers out completely, with the last trains off the network this year. Their modern replacements will improve journeys and create space for 40,000 more passengers."

Three retired pacer train carriages will be shared between community projects in communities across the north.

The vehicles will be repurposed into a range of projects and assets to improve lives locally.

The winners will be decided by the following judging panel:
Pete Waterman (head judge)
Tim Dunn (railway enthusiast, historian, broadcaster and presenter of Trainspotting Live)
Mary Grant (the CEO of railways rolling stock leasing company Porterbrook)
Jools Townsend (Chief Executive of The Association of Community Rail Partnerships - ACoRP)


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 17, 2020, 07:24:34
The Royal Navy are always on the lookout for target practice...……. :)


Title: Re: New uses for pacers
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 17, 2020, 08:40:25
I see this becoming one of those quirky "national things" that foreign tourists will comment on:
"And in England they had all these really cut old trains – "
"That was in Scotland."
"It was England, dear."
"North of Birmingham, England is called Scotland. Everyone knows that!"
"I thought that was Yorkshire? Well anyway, they had all these old trains – or were they buses? – made into wonderful buildings."
"Trains, definitely."
"I think some of them were buses."
"But in England all the buses have two floors. And outside staircases. So cute!"
"Well anyway, in Mancaster – that's the capital of Yorkshire – they had this really sweet little building made of old trains. Or buses. Really, you can't tell the difference between a bus and a train over there!"
"It was so cute. I think one of the princesses lives there. Prince Garry."



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