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Journey by Journey => London to Reading => Topic started by: grahame on July 26, 2019, 03:49:52 pm



Title: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: grahame on July 26, 2019, 03:49:52 pm
Press release from GWR Media Centre (https://www.gwr.com/about-us/media-centre/news/2019/july/biggest-timetable-change-since-the-70s-less-than-150-days-away)

Quote
Friday 26th July 2019

Train services in the Thames Valley will be transformed from December as GWR speeds up its timetable offering faster journey times, more seats and more frequent services.

In the biggest timetable change on the network since 1976, 50% of GWR’s stopping services between Reading and London Paddington will be transferred to MTR Crossrail. GWR will continue to operate services between Reading and London Paddington calling at intermediate station stops, with many extending to Didcot and being formed of 12 carriage Class 387 electric trains in the evening peak where they are needed most.

These will dovetail with MTR Crossrail’s stopping services to provide an improved overall service with significant extra capacity on the Reading to Paddington corridor.

On the popular Reading to Newbury route, passengers will benefit from an increase to three trains an hour, journey time improvements of around five minutes, and a more consistent service throughout the day with up to two fast services an hour running through to London Paddington.

New Intercity Express Trains already operating between Reading and London Paddington will also see journey time improvements; average direct journey times will consistently be 22 mins, compared to between 25 and 30 minutes today.

[continues]



Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: ChrisB on July 26, 2019, 04:05:37 pm
Cue complaints from branch lines in trhe Thames Valley about connections not being made between MTR/Crossrail & GWR services....


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 26, 2019, 04:32:57 pm
The existing 30-minute interval during the peaks of Paddington<>Maidenhead<>Twyford<>Reading and beyond to/from Didcot GWR services continues.  They should all be 12-car 387s, providing (arguably) the best ever service to/from Maidenhead and Twyford.  It will be interesting to see what happens to them after The Elizabeth Line commences running through London and what commuters from Maidenhead and Twyford get in terms of fast services.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: ChrisB on July 26, 2019, 04:44:35 pm
ooh, 6 hours out of 24. Then there are the other 18....


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: eightonedee on July 26, 2019, 10:46:16 pm
Quote
The existing 30-minute interval during the peaks of Paddington<>Maidenhead<>Twyford<>Reading and beyond to/from Didcot GWR services continues.

Really? Currently on Reading to Didcot it's still the same inconveniently irregularly spaced service - arrival times at Goring spaced as follows from 17-06 to 20-06 as follows- all being gaps in minutes-

10-21-32-12-17-31-25-8-24.

And of course most of my North Downs connections at Reading seem to dump me there to catch the longest gaps. Six in two hours - is it too much to suggest one every 20 minutes might make a much better and more convenient service?





Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: martyjon on July 27, 2019, 01:36:39 am
Quote
The existing 30-minute interval during the peaks of Paddington<>Maidenhead<>Twyford<>Reading and beyond to/from Didcot GWR services continues.
Really? Currently on Reading to Didcot it's still the same inconveniently irregularly spaced service - arrival times at Goring spaced as follows from 17-06 to 20-06 as follows- all being gaps in minutes-

10-21-32-12-17-31-25-8-24.

And of course most of my North Downs connections at Reading seem to dump me there to catch the longest gaps. Six in two hours - is it too much to suggest one every 20 minutes might make a much better and more convenient service?

Stop b????y grumbling, my  inconveniently irregularly spaced service from Bristol evenings arrival times at my station are spaced as follows from 17-01 to 20-01 is as follows- all being gaps in minutes-

60-56-64-60

and if Grahame were to post his *?*?*?*


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: grahame on July 27, 2019, 07:02:12 am
.... inconveniently irregularly spaced service - arrival times at Goring spaced as follows from 17-06 to 20-06 as follows- all being gaps in minutes-

10-21-32-12-17-31-25-8-24.

Stop b????y grumbling, my  inconveniently irregularly spaced service from Bristol evenings arrival times at my station are spaced as follows from 17-01 to 20-01 is as follows- all being gaps in minutes-

60-56-64-60

and if Grahame were to post his *?*?*?*

Invited to compare ... gaps off Swindon (15:18 to 20:08) as follows

138-72-80

We are very grateful for "Train 2000" - the previously parly Cheltenham Spa to Southampton via Swindon service which leaves Swindon at 18:48.  One of the three 'desparate' needs to bring us up to a proper service is one at around 16:30 (making it 72-76-72-80) and another is a later train - the 20:08 currently being the final service; 22:30 needed, one more round trip of the shuttle train.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 27, 2019, 02:23:55 pm
Quote
The existing 30-minute interval during the peaks of Paddington<>Maidenhead<>Twyford<>Reading and beyond to/from Didcot GWR services continues.

Really? Currently on Reading to Didcot it's still the same inconveniently irregularly spaced service - arrival times at Goring spaced as follows from 17-06 to 20-06 as follows- all being gaps in minutes-

10-21-32-12-17-31-25-8-24.

I was more focussing on the Paddington-Maidenhead-Twyford-Reading part than onwards to Didcot.  A 20-minute even interval service would be very nice to have, but of course several factors make that very difficult, namely the way frequent and robust freight paths have to be provided so freight trains can stand the best chance of presenting themselves at Oxford Road Junction or Didcot North Junction on time.  The one (or sometimes two) fast XC services per hour that use the relief lines, and also that some 12-car 387s drop off the rear four carriages at Reading and for operational reasons which obviously takes a few minutes.

I don't know how the Reading<>Oxford Turbos will slot in come December, but of the 17:20, 17:50, 18:20 and 18:49 services from Paddington after December, the 17:20 and 18:20 will detach 4 at Reading and the others will run through as 12 to Didcot, so I would expect a certain amount of unevenness to continue.

If we go back ten years then your:
10-21-32-12-17-31-25-8-24
were (including a 20:09 arrival at Goring):
30-32-23-9-28-26-5-29

So, one less train and a very similar lack of a pattern!


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: eightonedee on July 27, 2019, 04:47:27 pm
Quote
Stop b????y grumbling

Sorry - I will not - let me explain why.

I appreciate that someone from my part of the world with 3 trains an hour looks like someone with a "first world problem" to those of you in less densely populated areas, or who struggle with a much less frequent service. I wholeheartedly support your calls for more frequent services, with better connections at the interchange points and better early and late start and finish times. All these are improvements that should help what I hope is our common goal of increasing the use of rail travel by offering a better service.

In my case I commute now four days a week between Goring and Guildford. On the second leg I appreciate that it is very difficult to have a clock face service. The North Downs service is really two services - a semi-fast Reading-Gatwick and a stopping Reading-Guildford, Shalford or Redhill. These services have to dovetail into the Reigate and Victoria-Gatwick and Brighton services at the east end, the SWT services between Shalford Junction and Ash junction (including the bottleneck that is the tunnel south of Guildford Station) and the SWT services between Reading and Wokingham.

However on the Reading-Didcot leg the Thames Valley stopping services are surely the main event on the relief lines, serving four intermediate stations with an aggregate footfall of over 1,500,000. At Reading there is one of the countries busiest interchange stations, with connections for services in most directions. However I find myself probably once or twice a week on average falling into one of those larger timetable "holes", and spending an unwanted 25 - 30 minutes stranded at Reading on a journey that need not take more than an hour to 1hr 10 minutes on average, and that's assuming that the service I have to wait for arrives and leaves on time (hence my recent grumble about the length of time it takes to divide the 18-57 ex-Reading, which falls at the end of a 31 minute gap). Multiply that by (say) 46 working weeks in the year and you will see that the total time spent over a year mounts up. A regular evenly spaced stopping service would considerably mitigate this.

There are a number of us who travel from stations between Tilehurst and Cholsey and stations between Wokingham and Gatwick (mostly Guildford) who face the same issues. Perhaps we are not a substantial proportion of overall traffic, but I know of fellow travelers who have changed jobs because of the shortcomings, and others who drive rather than use the train. I would guess that the number of us coping with this might be at least comparable (for example) with the number of Trans-Wilts passengers who like to travel to London to go to the theatre for the evening and get back to their home station after the performance but cannot do so. I think we (like them) have good reason to seek something better.

I thought one of the underlying principles of this forum was to highlight where things could be improved and support moves to do so.  This might seem a moan from a privileged member of the Thames Valley commuting fraternity who hog all your inter-city seats between Paddington and Reading, but it's something that could (and should) be better, and if it was would encourage more off the roads and onto trains if it were addressed. So I hope this gets support out there, just as I would support a better service on whatever line MartyJ uses regularly.

PS - In response to II's comments - while I do not spend all day watching Real Train Times, the impression I have is that during peak periods the Cross Country services run on the main line, not the reliefs, as indeed they should as a non-stop service between Reading and Oxford. They also seem now mainly to use Platforms 7 and 8 at Reading and the flyover. As regards freight services, I'm pretty certain that I see less of these at peak time than I used to, but they still seem to come off the Reading West curve and occasionally delay Reading-Didcot stopping services whatever the gap after the last such service. I assume that a modern fitted freight train must keep up a steady 40 mph, so will take just over 25 minutes to do Reading-Didcot, a little less than a stopping service (mostly timetabled for 27 minutes), so surely there's at least one freight slot with a decent 10 minute headway between each peak time passenger train, and more between off-peak half-hourly services. Off course I realise that there's likely to be other factors I am not aware of too!


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Reading General on July 27, 2019, 05:50:20 pm
Indeed. Plenty of journeys in our region are not london-centric, many people have been using trains for local journeys to work for years because of service frequencies. The assumption that everyone is going to london is one that the government, media and operators themselves make a lot. Journeys to london take priority perhaps but the difference operators could make to local road traffic in the Thames Valley, or anywhere else with similar frequencies and a hub to change at, should be appreciated. The more people that leave places like Goring by train to wherever they are travelling to, work or leisure, the better. I appreciate that it isn't possible from some parts of the network with a limited service to travel to anywhere but where the service is going within one day, but we shouldn't stifle opportunities in places where the infrastructure can handle better services and people have already made the better choice of rail travel daily, because the option was already there. The network around Reading operates as a regional metro because of frequencies like those between Reading and Didcot and it thankfully takes a wonderful amount of potential car journeys away from an area already heaving with them. So timetable changes will have an effect on many jorneys that might not  be obvious to those on a Swindon to london fast service everyday. It is possible to chose rail living somewhere like Twyford and work in Bracknell, or live in Basingstoke and work in Maidenhead, and the network around Reading makes it possible for people to make those choices.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 27, 2019, 06:10:20 pm
PS - In response to II's comments - while I do not spend all day watching Real Train Times, the impression I have is that during peak periods the Cross Country services run on the main line, not the reliefs, as indeed they should as a non-stop service between Reading and Oxford.

The 16:45, 17:45 and 19:45 CrossCountry services from Reading are booked on the relief lines, the others (the xx:15s, and also the 18:45 York) on the main lines - though if delayed it's an option to stick them onto the reliefs, or vice-versa stick the Newcastle's on the mains.  Mind you, main line paths will become ever thinner on the ground come December.

There are also seven freight paths through Goring heading towards Didcot during the times you specified (at least there are Monday coming).  Now, it might well be the case that only a few of those are used every day, but they are paths in the system that have to be accommodated whether they run or not.  A couple of years ago, Network Rail announced that they were going to remove thousands of unused or very rarely used freight paths from the schedules so other trains could be pathed where they once existed.  I'm not sure whether any of those through Goring have been removed, or will be removed, but that might possibly pave the way for improvements in the future.

Anyway, it works out at about 18 paths in total over the three hours, or an average of one every 10 minutes, which, with a mixture of train performance, calling patterns and so on is pretty much maxing it out. 

One relatively minor infrastructure change that would help is to provide an extra signal or two between Tilehurst and Pangbourne on the relief lines as it is a very long section which impacts on capacity.  Two more signals with the area changed from three to four aspect would help.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: grahame on July 27, 2019, 07:38:02 pm
Indeed. Plenty of journeys in our region are not london-centric, many people have been using trains for local journeys to work for years because of service frequencies. The assumption that everyone is going to london is one that the government, media and operators themselves make a lot. Journeys to london take priority ...

Although I followed up earlier with a confirmation that the inter-train gap and irregularity from Swindon to Melksham, Trowbridge and Westbury makes Reading to Goring look wonderful, I do note that many long established none-London journeys, especially those involving connections, are set to take a step backwards in December.

It's not just a Thames Valley "problem" ... from Chippenham to Swindon in the peak commuter hour, the 23 minute gap goes up to 41 minutes - no less trains in fact more, just that the train that replaces the 08:25 no longer calls at Swindon in its race for the capital, and an extra train starts at Swindon to pick up the traffic the 08:25 would have picked up at 08:41.

Are we seeing the same thing in Boris Johnson's announcement of a higher speed (none stop?) service from Manchester to Leeds ... as a commuter asks on Northern Resist "what about the people who live between - what are you doing for their service?


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: bradbrka on July 28, 2019, 06:37:45 pm
Quote
The existing 30-minute interval during the peaks of Paddington<>Maidenhead<>Twyford<>Reading and beyond to/from Didcot GWR services continues.

Really? Currently on Reading to Didcot it's still the same inconveniently irregularly spaced service - arrival times at Goring spaced as follows from 17-06 to 20-06 as follows- all being gaps in minutes-

10-21-32-12-17-31-25-8-24.

And of course most of my North Downs connections at Reading seem to dump me there to catch the longest gaps. Six in two hours - is it too much to suggest one every 20 minutes might make a much better and more convenient service?



The Reading to Didcot timetable in the evening peak is made up of 2 services, the 2 services per hour Paddington to Didcot at 30 mins intervals and an hourly Reading to Oxford service. The only way to get an even 20 min service Reading to Didcot would be to change the Paddington to Didcot service to a 20 and 40 min interval which would look a bit like a tail wagging dog situation.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on July 31, 2019, 09:16:49 am
Mr Hopwood was on BBC Berks this morning, talking about the improvements that can be expected from December.

The one of interest to me was the extra service per hour to and from Newbury. He suggested this will be a through service to PAD and fast between there and RDG.

Is this new service to be in addition to the current "Bedwyns" - which of course do the same, and generally only stop and Thatcham and Theale between Reading and Newbury? Will it be on 387's?


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 31, 2019, 12:46:09 pm
Yes, it'll be in addition to the Bedwyn's.  It'll be an IET every other hour (and run through to Exeter and beyond), and on the alternating hours it'll be a Class 387 just running Paddington<>Reading<>Newbury.  I can pretty much guarantee that it will be the first service to be canned when there's disruption!


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on July 31, 2019, 01:22:06 pm
Quote
Yes, it'll be in addition to the Bedwyn's.  It'll be an IET every other hour (and run through to Exeter and beyond), and on the alternating hours it'll be a Class 387 just running Paddington<>Reading<>Newbury.  I can pretty much guarantee that it will be the first service to be canned when there's disruption!

Thanks as always II.

So actually no service improvement at the likes of Theale and Thatcham (assuming they don't stop, as your info suggests) which is a pity.

Having said that, our service is much improved since the takeover (on most services) of IET's and 387's between Reading and Newbury/Bedwyn.

It'll be nice when the trains don't dwell so long waiting for the advertised departure time (as they often do currently due to their speed between stops) - I know this is also going to change in December.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 31, 2019, 01:55:51 pm
Yes, there's no real change in service levels at Theale and Thatcham, but schedules will be tightened up, especially on the IET services.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Reading General on July 31, 2019, 02:09:54 pm



Are we seeing the same thing in Boris Johnson's announcement of a higher speed (none stop?) service from Manchester to Leeds ... as a commuter asks on Northern Resist "what about the people who live between - what are you doing for their service?

What we are seeing is the standard modern attitude from those who don't use the railways and what they think the railways in Britain are for, interurban travel only. Usually considering only one direction dependent on time of day and never considering local use at all, even though local use has occurred because of timetable opportunity all over the country. Why would we use railways locally outside of london? I can see them wondering. We all have cars and we would never want to give them up! Operators are private, so they clearly want to concentrate there efforts on the number one popular journey so they wouldn't encourage much change.

 A friend of mine who recently returned from New Zealand after several years found it fascinating that, from Newbury, he was positioned on a mainline railway but could only really get trains in one direction, like he was living on a branch terminus. He found this out when attempting to visit a friend in Paignton, he was given the routing of getting the train to Reading (general) then changing to get a train which would go back through his town to go west. Why couldn't there be an hourly usable service to Westbury, from where he could change trains to go towards Bristol, Salisbury and points further west and south, he wondered. The rail operator could say there isn't the demand, but perhaps this is because there isn't the opportunity in the first place, he mused. If there was the opportunity perhaps people could live in Westbury and work in Newbury. Or leave Newbury to visit Salisbury for the day without much planning. Surely having the option is the best way to get people using trains locally and that's better for everybody. He noted that, it seems in the south, the train is only for going to london and going anywhere else but those places on route to there must be the cars job.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: didcotdean on July 31, 2019, 03:00:35 pm
The further you get away from London the less travelling to / from it is completely dominant. For example I remember an Oxfordshire County Council report that stated that Didcot to London made up only about half of the journeys originating there, with about 30% being to stations in Oxfordshire or Berkshire and the rest further afield. This was contrasted with Henley where journeys to London were 85%. (Don't ask me about the methodology for these, it wasn't stated.)


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: grahame on July 31, 2019, 10:39:49 pm
A friend of mine who recently returned from New Zealand after several years found it fascinating that, from Newbury, he was positioned on a mainline railway but could only really get trains in one direction, like he was living on a branch terminus. He found this out when attempting to visit a friend in Paignton, he was given the routing of getting the train to Reading (general) then changing to get a train which would go back through his town to go west. Why couldn't there be an hourly usable service to Westbury, from where he could change trains to go towards Bristol, Salisbury and points further west and south, he wondered.

Take a look at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=21974

Your friend from New Zealand confirms the London-centric nature of services that perhaps flows out too far, and is a dis-service to outer more counties, central southern England, and beyond.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on August 01, 2019, 08:11:52 am
Quote
Your friend from New Zealand confirms the London-centric nature of services that perhaps flows out too far, and is a dis-service to outer more counties, central southern England, and beyond.

Interesting and valid comments, but the city-centric nature of operations is even more prevalent in NZ, where there are virtually no long-distance passenger services at all (apart from what are really tourist trains), and the only places with decent suburban services are Auckland and Wellington.

It is of course a sparsely populated Country, I think there are roughly 4.5m inhabitants in total, in a Country roughly the same size of the UK.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Reading General on August 01, 2019, 08:21:00 am
It always makes sense, anywhere in the country, to run local services from one major intercity/interchange/junction/hub whatever you want to call them station to the next, even though there might not be much demand for passengers to travel from one end to the other. This is the reason that crossrail will come all the way to Reading, although personally I don't think it should be running beyond Heathrow airport, it makes operational sense to replace the paths of half the GWR stopping trains in this location. The trouble is, operators could potentially see a stopping service like that as capacity to remove a stop on a fast service to speed it up as a train with sufficient capacity runs from one point to the other. For example, and it's a simplified example, GWR could decide to reduce fast services in both directions stopping at Didcot, because there is a stopping service between there and Reading/london, by suggesting that the nice new 8 coach electric trains have the capacity to cover the main flow. It would upset london bound passengers from Didcot specifically but could make economic sense for the operators profits. However, it would ignore the possibilities for travelling west from Didcot by passengers both from Didcot and those using it as an interchange from the stations to the east and north and vice versa. It's these opportunities that are being ignored by operators in many locations across the south where daily travel to work in london occurs. This is what leads to the thinking by many that the train is only for use by those referred to by the broad label of 'commuters'. As I said above, the Government, media, TOCs, even local government and bus operators are guilty of this thinking and if we continue with this thinking it will become harder and harder to promote the use of trains for as many types of journey as possible.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Reading General on August 01, 2019, 08:30:33 am
Quote
Your friend from New Zealand confirms the London-centric nature of services that perhaps flows out too far, and is a dis-service to outer more counties, central southern England, and beyond.

Interesting and valid comments, but the city-centric nature of operations is even more prevalent in NZ, where there are virtually no long-distance passenger services at all (apart from what are really tourist trains), and the only places with decent suburban services are Auckland and Wellington.

It is of course a sparsely populated Country, I think there are roughly 4.5m inhabitants in total, in a Country roughly the same size of the UK.

Of course, but he was looking forward to getting back to a country where he thought he would no longer have to rely on a car to get around when not living in the major city. He made an assumption by looking at a map of the U.K rail network where lines snake all directions, but found out that the services don't. He may move up to the 'big city' (Reading) where we are lucky enough to have the option of fast and regional services to everywhere not just the capital.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: grahame on August 01, 2019, 10:03:15 am
It always makes sense, anywhere in the country, to run local services from one major intercity/interchange/junction/hub whatever you want to call them station to the next, even though there might not be much demand for passengers to travel from one end to the other.

That very much depends on your rules of the game, and objectives, of course.

The largest passenger flows from Pewsey and from Newbury and both to London, with the cost of a return ticket (adult, standard class, any time) being £120 and £59.90 respectively.  The Pewsey fare is a period return (as no day return is offered); the Newbury fare is a day return. If all trains that called at Pewsey also stopped an Newbury, what a big temptation for the day return / peak passengers to "split" - £9.80 Pewsey to Newbury return and £59.90 Newbury to London - total £69.70 - a loss of £50.30 in revenue for each passenger so doing.   

So ... the current setup has rather suited the financial / business model, maximising rail industry income rather than journeys / journey opportunities, or indeed the wider economic model that allowing people to make shorter local commutes across the old Network South East boundary would make.

I am, somewhat, heartened at suggestions that the train every 2 hours from London to Pewsey, Westbury and beyond will routinely call at Newbury come December; I really hope that's right, and I'm sure someone will have looked at that in relation to revenue.   Last years' RDG fare review, which seems to have been used as a feed to Williams rather than for any immediate suggestions, may also have taken (and Williams may take) a whole look at the fares issue where they pull the railway's business case in a different direction to the railway's case for the wider economy and livelihood of the people it serves.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 01, 2019, 10:51:13 am
Quote from: grahame

That very much depends on your rules of the game, and objectives, of course.

<snip>

The largest passenger flows from Pewsey and from Newbury and both to London, with the cost of a return ticket (adult, standard class, any time) being £120 and £59.90 respectively.  The Pewsey fare is a period return (as no day return is offered); the Newbury fare is a day return. If all trains that called at Pewsey also stopped an Newbury, what a big temptation for the day return / peak passengers to "split" - £9.80 Pewsey to Newbury return and £59.90 Newbury to London - total £69.70 - a loss of £50.30 in revenue for each passenger so doing.   

So ... the current setup has rather suited the financial / business model, maximising rail industry income rather than journeys / journey opportunities

Or does it? There is another way.

If I lived in Pewsey, given the paucity of the service and the cost of the ticket, I would jump into my car, drive the 11 or so miles through empty lanes to Bedwyn in about 20 minutes, and get the train from there. A much more frequent service and NRE tells me that an anytime return Bedwyn to Paddington is £63.10 and an off peak one £30.80.

By the way, NRE is also telling me this morning that there is an off peak return available from Pewsey to Paddington costing £53.60. I haven't looked into what trains you could practically use the ticket on, but it is one sale :)


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: CMRail on August 01, 2019, 11:29:37 am
Quote from: grahame

That very much depends on your rules of the game, and objectives, of course.

<snip>

The largest passenger flows from Pewsey and from Newbury and both to London, with the cost of a return ticket (adult, standard class, any time) being £120 and £59.90 respectively.  The Pewsey fare is a period return (as no day return is offered); the Newbury fare is a day return. If all trains that called at Pewsey also stopped an Newbury, what a big temptation for the day return / peak passengers to "split" - £9.80 Pewsey to Newbury return and £59.90 Newbury to London - total £69.70 - a loss of £50.30 in revenue for each passenger so doing.   

So ... the current setup has rather suited the financial / business model, maximising rail industry income rather than journeys / journey opportunities

Or does it? There is another way.

If I lived in Pewsey, given the paucity of the service and the cost of the ticket, I would jump into my car, drive the 11 or so miles through empty lanes to Bedwyn in about 20 minutes, and get the train from there. A much more frequent service and NRE tells me that an anytime return Bedwyn to Paddington is £63.10 and an off peak one £30.80.

By the way, NRE is also telling me this morning that there is an off peak return available from Pewsey to Paddington costing £53.60. I haven't looked into what trains you could practically use the ticket on, but it is one sale :)

Apparently, people drive from Cheltenham to Swindon to get to Paddington as it is easier. It certainly isn’t unheard of..


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Reading General on August 02, 2019, 12:59:28 pm


Or does it? There is another way.

If I lived in Pewsey, given the paucity of the service and the cost of the ticket, I would jump into my car, drive the 11 or so miles through empty lanes to Bedwyn in about 20 minutes, and get the train from there. A much more frequent service and NRE tells me that an anytime return Bedwyn to Paddington is £63.10 and an off peak one £30.80.

By the way, NRE is also telling me this morning that there is an off peak return available from Pewsey to Paddington costing £53.60. I haven't looked into what trains you could practically use the ticket on, but it is one sale :)

So operators can make an entire station redundant simply through arrangement of services and prices of tickets, as well as directly increase car journeys.
Out of interest, if the Bedwyn journeys were extended to Westbury and tickets prices rearranged would the hourly service from Pewsey (both towards Newbury/london and Westbury) increase patronage immediately because of those driving to elsewhere already I wonder,  GWR could certainly drop Pewsey from West of England trains as interchange would be available at Westbury, possibly even drop Newbury if gaps between trains were not that big. It would certainly open up a world of opportunity for Newbury passengers. On the flipside though, extending the Bedwyn train to Westbury would mean GWR might be tempted to make less West of England calls there.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 02, 2019, 01:52:17 pm


Or does it? There is another way.

If I lived in Pewsey, given the paucity of the service and the cost of the ticket, I would jump into my car, drive the 11 or so miles through empty lanes to Bedwyn in about 20 minutes, and get the train from there. A much more frequent service and NRE tells me that an anytime return Bedwyn to Paddington is £63.10 and an off peak one £30.80.

By the way, NRE is also telling me this morning that there is an off peak return available from Pewsey to Paddington costing £53.60. I haven't looked into what trains you could practically use the ticket on, but it is one sale :)

So operators can make an entire station redundant simply through arrangement of services and prices of tickets, as well as directly increase car journeys.
Out of interest, if the Bedwyn journeys were extended to Westbury and tickets prices rearranged would the hourly service from Pewsey (both towards Newbury/london and Westbury) increase patronage immediately because of those driving to elsewhere already I wonder,  GWR could certainly drop Pewsey from West of England trains as interchange would be available at Westbury, possibly even drop Newbury if gaps between trains were not that big. It would certainly open up a world of opportunity for Newbury passengers. On the flipside though, extending the Bedwyn train to Westbury would mean GWR might be tempted to make less West of England calls there.

Whilst Bedwyn does clearly act as a railhead for the area, I don't think it's quite the large one some people think.  Looking at usage over the last six years, Bedwyn has flatlined, whilst Pewsey has risen by over 40000 and is more than twice as busy as Bedwyn with fewer trains and both have seen very little timetable development over those six years.  The trains that do run often do the trip to London quicker than from Bedwyn due to fewer stops despite being almost 10 mile further away.

It'll be interesting to see what happens from December.  Bedwyn remains at a similar frequency as now but with faster journeys but still a next to non-existent westbound service, Pewsey gains a more regular clockface interval ever two hours and speeded up journey times to London, but to less of a range of westerly destinations as now.

As mentioned before, the Driver Only Operation (DOO) agreement only extends out to Bedwyn due to that being the historical Network SouthEast boundary, so Train Manager's would be needed to extend those out to Westbury.  However Train Manager's are required now as the IETs are still some way off of having their cameras deemed of an acceptable quality to use at unstaffed stations - the longer that goes on, the more the case IMHO for giving up on the idea of running DOO to Bedwyn and instead extend those trains through to Westbury (and perhaps Frome).  That would improve both frequency of trains from Westbury and Pewsey to London, but also make westerly journeys from Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn possible without doubling back through Newbury.
 


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: grahame on August 02, 2019, 04:08:03 pm
Whilst Bedwyn does clearly act as a railhead for the area, I don't think it's quite the large one some people think.  Looking at usage over the last six years, Bedwyn has flatlined, whilst Pewsey has risen by over 40000 and is more than twice as busy as Bedwyn with fewer trains and both have seen very little timetable development over those six years.  The trains that do run often do the trip to London quicker than from Bedwyn due to fewer stops despite being almost 10 mile further away.

Also to consider - for stations in somewhat rural setting - the Bedwyn station car park is said to have just 25 spaces ("said to" as I'm not sure if that is current) and that gets - or got - full and limits the amount people will use it.  Kerbside parking in Bedwyn is not something that's to be done lightly either, even on streets without restrictions.  If I lived in Marlborough and drove to a railhead, I would choose Hungerford.  Google tells me it's 4 miles further, takes 4 minutes longer (only 4 minutes because it's main road where Bedwyn involves a lot of lanes) and there are 68 parking spaces at the station, plus other town car parks. 

For further comparison, there are 77 parking spaces at Pewsey Station and then looking at passenger numbers, 1 parking spaces represents perhaps 600 to 700 passenger journeys per annum if the car park is routinely full.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 02, 2019, 07:35:14 pm
Quote from: grahame
Whilst Bedwyn does clearly act as a railhead for the area, I don't think it's quite the large one some people think.  Looking at usage over the last six years, Bedwyn has flatlined, whilst Pewsey has risen by over 40000 and is more than twice as busy as Bedwyn with fewer trains and both have seen very little timetable development over those six years.  The trains that do run often do the trip to London quicker than from Bedwyn due to fewer stops despite being almost 10 mile further away.

Also to consider - for stations in somewhat rural setting - the Bedwyn station car park is said to have just 25 spaces ("said to" as I'm not sure if that is current) and that gets - or got - full and limits the amount people will use it.  Kerbside parking in Bedwyn is not something that's to be done lightly either, even on streets without restrictions.

I have never caught a train from Bedwyn but I worked there quite a lot (albeit for a short period) in my Surveying days. The ex-Council estate right next to the station is known as The Knapp and doesn't have a major issue with commuter parking, although there is quite a bit of it immediately next to the station. But the estate runs to 150-odd houses, flats and bungalows.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 06, 2019, 09:10:44 am
Quote

Really? Currently on Reading to Didcot it's still the same inconveniently irregularly spaced service - arrival times at Goring spaced as follows from 17-06 to 20-06 as follows- all being gaps in minutes-

10-21-32-12-17-31-25-8-24.

And of course most of my North Downs connections at Reading seem to dump me there to catch the longest gaps. Six in two hours - is it too much to suggest one every 20 minutes might make a much better and more convenient service?


Whilst it may not be set in stone, the offer of services to Goring at the times you mention look to be worse from December. Starting with the 17:05 arrival the gaps in minutes are:  33-32-26-9-26-25-7-27 (20:10 arrival)

It would appear that whilst the so-called semi-fast services are speeded up between Paddington and Reading on account of having less stops, it simply waits time at Reading until its current booked path. A nice example here (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y95673/2019/12/18/advanced) of a 14 minute wait at Reading in the middle of the day, with others simply dragging there heals (or should that be wheels) between Reading and Slough (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y95672/2019/12/18/advanced)


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 06, 2019, 09:39:18 am
Whilst it may not be set in stone, the offer of services to Goring at the times you mention look to be worse from December. Starting with the 17:05 arrival the gaps in minutes are:  33-32-26-9-26-25-7-27 (20:10 arrival)

There’s definitely a few discrepancies there to be added/altered.  Looking a bit further down the line at Heyford, currently there is no peak time service listed from Oxford listed as stopping which can’t be the case. 

The first peak train from Oxford, that currently comes from Reading at 17:01, isn’t listed, despite the return working from Banbury being listed.  It has to get there somehow!


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: ChrisB on August 06, 2019, 10:06:52 am
THis is the problem of using RTT as any guide, because services will get omitted/


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 06, 2019, 12:09:42 pm
Whilst it may not be set in stone, the offer of services to Goring at the times you mention look to be worse from December. Starting with the 17:05 arrival the gaps in minutes are:  33-32-26-9-26-25-7-27 (20:10 arrival)

There’s definitely a few discrepancies there to be added/altered.

Whilst I hope for eightonedee's sake (and others) that you are correct II in that alterations are to be included, I don't see any additions that need to appear. The pattern above includes the half hourly from Paddington and the additional 4 that originate from Reading, the biggie being the 17:01 to Banbury becoming the 16:10 to Oxford (and then no doubt going on to Banbury later on). Even less room for manoeuvre of course with the new Didcot Fasts using the relief line between Reading and Didcot and as things stand nearly all XC services are routed on the reliefs, including the xx:15 mentioned up thread.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 06, 2019, 12:32:52 pm
We’ll have to wait and see - the train that forms the current 17:01 is still running into 13B at Reading (16:07 ex Oxford) with no listed ECS or passenger move after it.  So the 16:10 may well just be an additional as it has an ECS move off the depot listed for it?

Many services are still under negotiation with NR.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: eightonedee on August 06, 2019, 10:14:16 pm
My blood pressure is already rising....

This may speed up my retirement plans!


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on August 27, 2019, 05:59:31 pm
RTT is not showing a regular pattern of XR starters/terminators at Maidenhead in either peak or off-peak from December, as envisaged in published draft timetables. 

Are the timings for this part of the service yet to be finalised, or will it wait until the XR’s go through London and don’t need main line platform space at Paddington?


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 27, 2019, 06:26:49 pm
Indeed, those extras along with anything else to West Drayton/Heathrow won’t be running until the tunnels open.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: ChrisB on August 27, 2019, 08:48:58 pm
I'' told by the timetable gurus that bids/offers are still being made across the timetables, and no timetable is yet set in stone on RTT. This gets mentioned every new timetable and yet is generally ignored.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 27, 2019, 09:28:42 pm
I guess that’s because it’s probably at least 95% complete, so a pretty accurate idea can still be gleaned.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 01, 2019, 12:51:25 pm
Whilst it may not be set in stone, the offer of services to Goring at the times you mention look to be worse from December. Starting with the 17:05 arrival the gaps in minutes are:  33-32-26-9-26-25-7-27 (20:10 arrival)

There’s definitely a few discrepancies there to be added/altered.

Whilst I hope for eightonedee's sake (and others) that you are correct II in that alterations are to be included, I don't see any additions that need to appear. The pattern above includes the half hourly from Paddington and the additional 4 that originate from Reading, the biggie being the 17:01 to Banbury becoming the 16:10 to Oxford (and then no doubt going on to Banbury later on). Even less room for manoeuvre of course with the new Didcot Fasts using the relief line between Reading and Didcot and as things stand nearly all XC services are routed on the reliefs, including the xx:15 mentioned up thread.

The 17:01 Reading to Banbury service is now listed on RTT:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y95497/2019/12/16/advanced

Interestingly, it is first stop Goring & Streatley.  That may still change of course as there are several amendments still to be made - a 57-minute gap is currently showing until the next train from Reading after the 17:01, which obviously won't be the case.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on September 01, 2019, 02:44:32 pm
A few days ago RTT was showing a 1626 GWR stopper from Padd – Didcot Parkway which called at Ealing Broadway at 1634 and which formed a 1726 Reading – Didcot Parkway stopper.  This would of course have filled the gap from Reading after the new 1701 (missing out Tilehurst and Pangbourne is I assume a NR blip which RTT has faithfully reproduced)
 
This 1626 ex Padd has now disappeared from RTT.  Obviously there’s work in progress here.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on September 02, 2019, 09:39:45 am
It makes you wonder if there is enough justification for running an all stations Oxford – Reading turbo in the peak hours.  They’re timed close to the electric Didcot – Padd services, and take up a valuable path especially when NR chooses to path the XC’s and other non-stop trains on the RL’s amongst the stoppers and freights (the capacity of the 4 track section Reading – Didcot is maximised if fast trains go on the ML’s and slow trains go on the RL’s).

Also, the benefit of a through train from say Goring – Oxford is rather lost if it sits in Didcot for 11 minutes (as the currently-timed 1701 Reading – Banbury does).  You can see NR’s problem – the 1701 has got to clear Didcot East before the 1643 Padd - Didcot fast (which runs RL from Reading) and the 1715 XC Reading – Manchester (also RL).

Looking at RTT there appears to be a ML path available for the 1715 XC (but like all armchair experts I don’t have all the relevant information).

As has been said before, timetabling the RL’s between Didcot and Padd is not straightforward.  There will be even less flexibility for timetabling on the RL’s west of Reading when the full XR service starts up with its rigid clockface service (and I still can’t see how 3000 tonnes stone trains and long FL’s can fit in amongst 12 tph XR’s between Airport Junction and Acton).


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on September 21, 2019, 09:31:05 am
Well its T – 12 weeks until the timetable change, and still no trains showing from Reading to Tilehurst and Pangbourne between the 1652 and 1758 departures.  And we still have this ridiculously oddly timed 1701 Reading – Banbury Turbo which omits Tilehurst and Pangbourne and then sits in Didcot for 11 minutes.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 26, 2019, 01:34:13 pm
There’s a 17:25 ex Reading showing in the bid documents calling all stations to Didcot.  There’s two versions of it, one a stopper from Paddington at 16:26, the other a semi-fast at 16:50.  I would imagine neither has been accepted as of yet.  One thing for sure is that the gap will definitely be filled with something or there will be a breach of the SLC (Service Level Commitment). 

The 17:01 will be first stop Goring offering a 4-5 minute time saving for Goring and Cholsey passengers- but not much use for Tilehurst and Pangbourne ones.  I guess it’s to free up a freight path behind, but Pangbourne would have been a better choice than Cholsey.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Oxonhutch on September 26, 2019, 02:19:36 pm
I guess it’s to free up a freight path behind, but Pangbourne would have been a better choice than Cholsey.

Not for the good burghers of Cholsey/Wallingford !  :)

And the retimed 1632 ex PAD to TAU still connects to it. A new record of 42 minutes out of London to my local.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on September 28, 2019, 02:04:08 pm
The 17:01 will be first stop Goring offering a 4-5 minute time saving for Goring and Cholsey passengers- but not much use for Tilehurst and Pangbourne ones.  I guess it’s to free up a freight path behind, but Pangbourne would have been a better choice than Cholsey.

To quote from the SLC:

"D2 READING – OXFORD
1 Route Definition
1.1 Services shall be provided between Reading and Oxford calling at Tilehurst,
Pangbourne, Goring & Streatley, Cholsey and Didcot Parkway
1.2 Limited Stops shall be made at Appleford, Culham and Radley.
1.3 Services may be joined with services specified in Route C1 to provide
through services."

So it could be argued that omitting Tilehurst and Pangbourne is in contravention of the SLC - the wording of 1.1 as against that of 1.2 seems to be saying that the stops in 1.1 are mandatory, those in 1.2 are discretionary.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 28, 2019, 03:18:27 pm
Interesting point.  Expect a minor amendment to the SLC along the lines of “One train per day may omit Tilehurst and Pangbourne.”  ;)


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on September 28, 2019, 03:49:50 pm
I’d be disappointed if NR couldn’t fix this.  It doesn’t inspire confidence that they’ll be able to deliver the rather more difficult task of a WTT east of Reading when the full XR timetable starts in a couple of years.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 29, 2019, 07:41:28 am
Quote
There’s a 17:25 ex Reading showing in the bid documents calling all stations to Didcot.  There’s two versions of it, one a stopper from Paddington at 16:26, the other a semi-fast at 16:50.

I note that pencilled in is 3D47, from Reading Depot to Paddington arriving at 16:26 with no outbound working, this will no doubt form the 'missing' service to Didcot


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Adelante_CCT on October 06, 2019, 08:29:11 am
Now in the system is the 16:50 semi-fast II was referring to, departing Reading at 17:25


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on October 07, 2019, 10:51:33 am
RTT is showing this “new” 1D47 1650 Padd – Didcot semi-fast stopping at Maidenhead on the DM, arr 1707 dep 1708, then crossing over to DR at Ruscombe.  Possibly an error, as 1K57 1634 Newbury – Padd has a 2 minute pathing allowance at Maidenhead which could be to let 1D47 cross over to the DR in front of it.

For timetable resilience it doesn’t seem a good idea for 1D47 to stop on the DM when 1W33 1658 Padd – Great Malvern is timed to pass through (at 125 mph) just 4 minutes later at 1712 with 3 other IEP’s at 2 minute headways behind it.  If 1D47 is a minute or 2 late leaving Maidenhead (and they’re often a bit slow getting off trains there) 1W33 will see double yellows which will react on the following trains also.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 07, 2019, 11:44:07 am
RTT is showing this “new” 1D47 1650 Padd – Didcot semi-fast stopping at Maidenhead on the DM, arr 1707 dep 1708, then crossing over to DR at Ruscombe.  Possibly an error, as 1K57 1634 Newbury – Padd has a 2 minute pathing allowance at Maidenhead which could be to let 1D47 cross over to the DR in front of it.

For timetable resilience it doesn’t seem a good idea for 1D47 to stop on the DM when 1W33 1658 Padd – Great Malvern is timed to pass through (at 125 mph) just 4 minutes later at 1712 with 3 other IEP’s at 2 minute headways behind it.  If 1D47 is a minute or 2 late leaving Maidenhead (and they’re often a bit slow getting off trains there) 1W33 will see double yellows which will react on the following trains also.

That could well be the reason it has been one of the last paths to finalise and a main line platform stop was deemed the most suitable.  I don't think it's a mistake on the system given the running times from Slough onwards - though it may well turn out to be a mistake in practice!  Fast trains head through Maidenhead on the Up Main at 17:04, 17:07 and 17:12 so crossing it over could (and almost certainly would on many occasions) delay anything behind by at least as much as leaving it on the mains.  It can stop without worrying about slowing for the 40mph crossovers, and with the crossovers at Ruscombe being 70mph ones that is a more efficient way of getting it out of the way in some respects. 

Platform extensions at Maidenhead should be open by December which will help with dwell times, and that train is only an 8-car so the long wait whilst people head for platformed carriages won't be a problem.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on October 07, 2019, 04:09:35 pm
All fair points, II.  The 1704 pass is 1P34 which calls at Slough, which is probably the reason (and not what I said above) that 1K57 which follows has the pathing allowance at Maidenhead.   However, it does provide a gap for 1D47 to cross over between 1P34 and 1K57. Even if 1K57 had a clear run at Maidenhead it would get checked approaching Slough waiting for 1P34 to get away, so might as well check 1K57 before Maidenhead East and get 1D47 off the ML.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: grahame on October 14, 2019, 04:57:22 am
Crossrail press release - ((here)) (http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/tfl-rail-to-operate-services-to-reading-from-15-december) - dated 26th September (but I can't spot it above in this thread)

Quote
From Sunday 15 December Transport for London (TfL) will start running the stopping services between Paddington mainline and Reading ahead of the service becoming part of the Elizabeth line.

These services (currently operated by GWR) will be operated as TfL Rail, which will become the Elizabeth line when the line opens through central London, transforming travel with quicker, easier and more accessible journeys for customers.

Under TfL Rail, the current service frequency of four stopping trains an hour in the peak between Paddington mainline and Reading will be maintained using the new Elizabeth line trains. Two trains an hour will run during the off-peak, as is currently the case. The service replaces part of the Great Western inner suburban route, some fast services will continue to be operated by GWR from Reading, Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough to Paddington.

Confirming what we know.   Note that one of the risks to the whole GWR timetable from 15th December is this service  takeover by TfL not happening - as expressed (and already noted) at GWR's Stakeholder meeting last Friday.

Press release goes on to talk about fares and payment methods, station improvements and Christmas engineering.

Further take on this and looking further ahead in My London (https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/crossrail-elizabeth-line-scheduled-opening-17075021) in an article dated yesterday


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 14, 2019, 11:34:44 am
Note that one of the risks to the whole GWR timetable from 15th December is this service  takeover by TfL not happening - as expressed (and already noted) at GWR's Stakeholder meeting last Friday.

Or that it happens but the Class 345s prove to be unreliable.  They've been testing all year between Reading and Paddington though, and the 7-car trains that are running the Paddington to Hayes services are now increasingly being formed of 9-car trains - not without the odd hiccup, but hopefully problems will be ironed out by December.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: litecactus on October 29, 2019, 03:10:34 pm
Another good one is the current 1707 Frome service, becomes the 1708 to Bedwyn, with the caraveat that it gets downgraded to a 5 car service.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: Sixty3Closure on October 29, 2019, 04:16:08 pm
Another good one is the current 1707 Frome service, becomes the 1708 to Bedwyn, with the caraveat that it gets downgraded to a 5 car service.

The one that's packed till Twyford? If it still stops at Twyford that's going to be cosy.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 29, 2019, 04:25:28 pm
Who says it’s only going to be a 5-car?


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: grahame on October 29, 2019, 04:29:39 pm
Who says it’s only going to be a 5-car?

Goes into turnback siding at Bedwyn.   Quart, pint pot, fitting problem.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 29, 2019, 04:33:28 pm
Looks like there’s a portion detach at Newbury according to realtimetrains (and subsequent working back from Newbury by the detached portion), so I think it’s more likely to be a 10-car.


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: grahame on October 29, 2019, 05:02:29 pm
Looks like there’s a portion detach at Newbury according to realtimetrains (and subsequent working back from Newbury by the detached portion), so I think it’s more likely to be a 10-car.

Ah right - a quart pot but a pint syphoned off en-route!   Makes sense.  Thanks for pointing that out - I should have noticed!


Title: Re: Thames Valley services from December 2019 - GWR press release
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 29, 2019, 05:06:52 pm
The devil is in the detail, Graham!  ;)



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