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Sideshoots - associated subjects => Railway History and related topics => Topic started by: johnneyw on August 06, 2019, 16:16:04



Title: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: johnneyw on August 06, 2019, 16:16:04
Following from my post on the Weymouth Station Disappointment thread:

The 1980s Weymouth Station modification/rebuild is certainly not without it's critics on this forum as has been the case for other examples of post WW2 station architecture . This got me thinking, do forum members have any examples of post WW2 Station architecture that they actually think works well, both aesthetically and functionally?

Also, are there any notable "dishonourable mentions" that forum members would like to let off some steam about?


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: ChrisB on August 06, 2019, 16:25:07
Post WW2 includes anything to date, which I'' not sure that's what you mean? Do you want to put an end-date on this question? Or I'll nominate Reading rebuild


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 06, 2019, 16:38:14
Post WW2 includes anything to date, which I'' not sure that's what you mean? Do you want to put an end-date on this question? Or I'll nominate Reading rebuild

I think that Chris’s post hints in the direction that my thoughts were turning. The Weymouth rebuild was undertaken in a very different set of circumstances to Reading, and we must be careful not to look with 20/20 hindsight on what had gone before.

The 1980s were a time when rail usage was flat-lining if not declining. In general terms the facilities that had been provided in the past were far and away in excess of what was required then. The BR Property Board saw great advantages in selling of real estate and providing a level of provision that suited the travelling public of the day’s needs. And generally that was what happened.

Furthermore, many of the older buildings and platforms had stood there for well over 100 years and maintenance had been somewhat lacking, to say the least. It was often far cheaper to knock a platform out and replace it with a simpler concrete structure rather than attempt repairs.

In the last 20-odd years the situation of declining rail travel has completely reversed. In today’s refurbishments, account is taken of possible increases in traffic rather than reductions in it, and the rebuild of Reading is a prime example of this new way of thinking.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 06, 2019, 16:46:04
The 1960s rebuild of Euston as a good example of "Modernisation" thinking (However, ruined since by RT/NR by installing a sub-deck and losing the air of openness :'().

https://youtu.be/10Gj6yYBuu4

(https://images-i.jpimedia.uk/imagefetch/c_fill,f_auto,h_800,q_auto:eco,w_1200/https://inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/GettyImages-150305153.jpg)


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: johnneyw on August 06, 2019, 16:54:58
The end of WW2 is an admittedly arbitrary date but nationalisation in 1947 was soon after which heralded (at least in theory) a new railway planning regime. Add to this post war architectural trends facilitated by the need to rebuild much of bombed Britain (railways included) and this seems to me to be a time of significant change in the way we designed our railway buildings which has attracted favourable and less favourable critique in the past, hence my question.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: johnneyw on August 06, 2019, 17:14:37
As a example from myself, the old Birmingham New Street station was to me a particularly unsuccessful attempt at a modern station and I never enjoyed the experience of being there. While the replacement has not to my mind completely addressed all the shortcomings of the earlier incarnation I think it's a real improvement.


Additionally, right from it's opening, I always liked Waterloo's Eurostar terminal but I haven't had a chance to see what it's like now since it's repurposing for UK only services.


More recently and on a much smaller scale, although I've only seen it from the outside, I was reasonably impressed with Kenilworth's new station which, I think, suited it's location.





Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Phil on August 06, 2019, 17:25:45
Howard Fairbairn's East Grinstead rebuild from 2012 is a personal favourite.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: TonyK on August 06, 2019, 17:40:21
As a example from myself, the old Birmingham New Street station was to me a particularly unsuccessful attempt at a modern station and I never enjoyed the experience of being there. While the replacement has not to my mind completely addressed all the shortcomings of the earlier incarnation I think it's a real improvement.


I agree. Whilst the platforms remain a little more like an underground station than most mainline station, the concourse is an improvement on the previous imagining, and the tram stop outside is handy too.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: broadgage on August 06, 2019, 18:25:33
Euston is my favourite post WW2 large station, rather spoiled by growing clutter but still impressive.
Rather spoiled in the 1980s by use of nasty orange high pressure sodium lamps. Now replaced with cool white metal halide lamps.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: didcotdean on August 06, 2019, 18:45:28
Oxford has always had station buildings that might be said to have never been that great, and were decidedly shabby by the 1960s but the two (arguably three maybe) remodels since then were inadequate and out of date more or less already before they were opened.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: JayMac on August 06, 2019, 19:47:07
A personal favourite is Coventry. Modernism done well there.

Done badly? Stafford.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: RA on August 06, 2019, 21:35:23
Exmouth station I find disappointing. It is similar to Weymouth in being a coastal destination with a heavily rationalised layout and rebuilt station replacing a more traditional one.

It featured in an episode of the excellent 1988 BBC series 'The Train Now Departing' (worth watching just for the beautiful title music with the Ivo Peters footage of Low Gill viaduct). The episode is still available to view online;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p011v83w

The comments by Barry Smith regarding the station near the end of the episode sum up the station well.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: CyclingSid on August 07, 2019, 07:39:39
I find Gatwick somewhat lacking, dark and low. Be interesting to see what the proposed revamp comes up with.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: stuving on August 07, 2019, 09:11:39
I find Gatwick somewhat lacking, dark and low. Be interesting to see what the proposed revamp comes up with.

Quote
Planned upgrades will include doubling the size of the station concourse, adding 5 new lifts and 8 escalators to improve passenger flow, and widening 2 platforms to reduce overcrowding.

The little video shows escalators and daylight - but that's just at the side of the overhead deck. If that does double in size, presumably more of the platform level will be undergrounded. So expect better lighting, white paint, and perhaps a bit of more colourful prettifying - at most.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: ellendune on August 07, 2019, 09:21:06
Derby - Not the present one - the post war rebuild that fell apart and had a scaffolding inner footbridge for over 30 years and later a shroud of netting to stop bits of concrete falling on people. 


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 07, 2019, 10:19:24
Bristol Parkway is windswept and an unpleasant place to wait on anything other than a warm day. Gloucester and Swindon are okay but nothing particularly attractive.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: ChrisB on August 07, 2019, 10:28:39
Euston is my favourite post WW2 large station, rather spoiled by growing clutter but still impressive.

Not beenn recently then? Clutter removed mostly....


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: johnneyw on August 07, 2019, 11:59:31
Derby - Not the present one - the post war rebuild that fell apart and had a scaffolding inner footbridge for over 30 years and later a shroud of netting to stop bits of concrete falling on people. 

Blinkin' flip!


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: stuving on August 07, 2019, 19:51:19
Wokingham's new station building - its third (WS3) - is certainly an improvement on WS2. But WS2 was of course post-war too. I wasn't here when it was built, but by the 90s it was looking scruffy, unloved, and unvlovely. I looked for pictures of it when new, but didn't find any of the front and few of its platform side. I wonder why!

It was built (I find) in 1972-3, one of many similar system-built (CLASP) replacements for stations on this line. The first proposal by BR for Wokingham was refused by Berskhsire CC (though I'm not sure how much planning control they really had in this case). BR used the money to "improve" Virginia Water and Sunnindale instead. The assorted councils all seem to have accepted the old building should be replaced; they just didn't like "bus shelter on steroids" look of what was (in fact) built soon after.

The Wokingham Society, of course, was even less impressed - "We don't want a nasty modern station. The existing one may not be a splendid piece of architecture, but it is rather charming." Another report said "A Southern reagion spokesman described it as an 'attractive modern type section built building.' A waiting shelter only will be provided on the other side of the line." Now that's something that was not improved with WS3!


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: CyclingSid on August 08, 2019, 07:02:22
In the case of Wokingham, is it a case that the platform that makes the most revenue gets the most spent. I assume that the Up line to Waterloo possibly makes more than the rest put together. Also there is restricted space on the Down side.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Noggin on August 08, 2019, 14:39:27
St Pancras rebuild was a lovely job - so much nicer than Gare du Nord or Brussels Midi.

Reading Station also an amazing job considering that it was built around one of the busiest (and oldest) bits of railway in the world.

 


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 08, 2019, 17:00:49
Agree Reading now looks pretty good. Best wait and see how it fares once the sheen's worn off though!


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Oxonhutch on August 09, 2019, 08:49:44
Reading Station also an amazing job considering that it was built around one of the busiest (and oldest) bits of railway in the world.

Old Reading in the rain - still just as common - was a lot more comfortable place to be. Edwardians knew something about canopy design and climate; something that our late Elizabethan architects seem to have forgotten.

Looks pretty in the sunshine though ...


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: eightf48544 on August 09, 2019, 09:45:47
Although I like the new Reading, certainly operationally it seems to work well. I also agree with Oxenhutch that it's not the plaec to be in wind and rain.l

Although as posted elsewhere finding which of the 14 platforms your trian goes from is quite tricky and can be quite along walk if changing trains.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: johnneyw on August 09, 2019, 11:50:52
Stumbled upon this history of Birmingham New Street right up to it's latest rebuild. Interesting pictures and video too.

https://www.birminghamupdates.com/the-history-of-birmingham-new-street-station/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=Statusbrew&utm_content=Brew1b61f3ea1a42483e964320b27015101e&fbclid=IwAR3ZEwRuHpqDXXl4pPk-3vCyyrxnC3gYDejbdaTkfTC3WgICwrmLsqYwTdY


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Witham Bobby on August 09, 2019, 12:44:44
I quite like the 1958 bits of Banbury Station - the newer bits, not so much.  Banbury as rebuilt in 1958 is a bit utilitarian, but it seems both competent and confident.

1970s or 1980s revamp of High Wycombe is horrid

Not sure what to say about the various post-war alterations at Taunton.  The bits they've done have taken much away from the 1930s Art-Deco classic.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 10, 2019, 18:04:51
Further to my nomination for the 1960s Euston below, I found the attached document: http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/EustonStation.pdf


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Electric train on August 11, 2019, 09:35:00
The 1960s rebuild of Euston as a good example of "Modernisation" thinking (However, ruined since by RT/NR by installing a sub-deck and losing the air of openness :'().

https://youtu.be/10Gj6yYBuu4

(https://images-i.jpimedia.uk/imagefetch/c_fill,f_auto,h_800,q_auto:eco,w_1200/https://inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/GettyImages-150305153.jpg)

I agree, however Euston was designed at the time of diminishing passenger numbers, this has changed in the last decade or so space need to be freed up on the concourse, even no after the mezzanine has been installed the concourse gets filled quickly.  There were / are plans to convert to old parcels / Royal Mail deck into a retail / additional concourse which will be needed as the HS2 construction eats up the western platforms of the station


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Oxonhutch on August 11, 2019, 14:54:47
From photos within the Great Hall and also the Euston Arch we have been robbed of some superb architecture in the name of progress.  I am sure if the remodelling were to happen today, these classic features would have been incorporated into the redesign rather like Brunel's building at Reading. I did find it interesting to see where the Euston buildings were in respect of the present station. The National Library of Scotland (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.263333333333332&lat=51.5289&lon=-0.1347&layers=163&b=4) georeferenced map of Euston shows just how far into the current station these were. Use the transparency slider at the bottom of the menu on the left.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 11, 2019, 15:31:33
Quote from: Oxonhutch
From photos within the Great Hall and also the Euston Arch we have been robbed of some superb architecture in the name of progress.  I am sure if the remodelling were to happen today, these classic features would have been incorporated into the redesign rather like Brunel's building at Reading.

Not exactly a carbon copy, but very similar architecture exists at the other end of the London & Birmingham Railway at Curzon Street station in Brum.

The site to the rear (east) of it is currently being cleared as it is planned to reuse the station for HS2

Linking a Google Maps image doesn't appear to work for me this afternoon but if you enter Curzon Street station into Street View you can see it under renovation



Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: chuffed on August 11, 2019, 16:56:29
Curzon Street had grand plans made for it by the Royal College of Organists who were going to turn it into their UK HQ .
In 2003 plans were announced for more permanent purpose-built premises around the Grade I listed former Curzon Street railway station in Birmingham, a notable piece of monumental railway architecture. New facilities designed by Associated Architects included a new library and 270 seat concert hall. However, in 2005 the RCO announced that this move would not be taking place and subsequently that it would no longer be looking for a permanent home of this kind, focussing instead on activities such as education, events, examinations and member services.
I wonder how much the RCO were offered by HS2 for such a prime site!. Almost 15 years on , and has anything actually happened ?


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Reading General on August 11, 2019, 19:14:38
1950's Banbury station is great, well built utility, 1930's modernism with the detail removed.
Oxford is the most ugly, inadequate arrival to a town/city above 100 000 in the U.K. I find it fascinating that a city famed for it's classical architecture never got, and will never have, a railway station to match. Even before the prefab build of the 1970's, from what I can tell from the little amount of photos that exist online, the station was another average GWR local station like those at Goring or Pangbourne.

From different viewpoint, in the early 1980's as a child I used to find Birmingham New Street quite an exciting entrance to a city.

Portsmouth and Southsea high level is bloody awful.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: TonyK on August 12, 2019, 21:40:27
Having gotten myself used to the quieter life, I have come to appreciate the minimalist structure that is Tiverton parkway. Not many stations have such a gentle approach, through countryside, farm land, golf course and by a country park that is a canal, to a station weith the highest count of hanging baskets per passenger kilometre travelled, and a fishing lake in the corner. It's a shame the last bus to Tiverton is before 8pm. The building is, of course, nothing to mention, but I like the setting of what was previously Sampford Peverell station.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 12, 2019, 22:07:17
Sampford Peverell is a lovely name! Shame they changed it - it's not even as if Tiverton is such a massive or well known place. Mind you, I don't really like the whole Parkway name and concept, so I'm biased even without having been there.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: eightonedee on August 12, 2019, 22:07:51
To add to the above..

Firstly, too many post war stations seem to suffer from a lack of maintenance. Oxford is a good example, although the fact that it is manifestly too small does not help. But it would be better if someone kept it regularly repainted. Similarly the "last" Wokingham station looked neglected for years. They are made from materials that show neglect much quicker than traditional brick or stone structures, where you have to look more closely to see details such as rotting window frames or neglected ironmongery.

I wholeheartedly agree with the verdict on Exmouth - what a dreary end to a pleasant estuary side journey. It feels like being taken into an old industrial building.

One station that struck me as grim when I traveled through it a couple of times some years ago was Manchester Oxford Road. However I thought I had better check it out before condemning it in a post, in case my memory was being unfair to it, possibly as it seemed to suffer by comparison to the newly refurbished Leeds Station also passed through on the same Trans-Pennine journeys. I was a bit surprised therefore to find a picture of a rather striking structure not visible form the train on the platform, but reading on it appears this too deteriorated rapidly requiring major works at the beginning of the last decade.

As an almost daily user of Reading, I am more conscious of some of the shortcomings than those who use it irregularly or occasionally (from whom most of the adverse comments I get to hear relate to the truly awful signage), and needed to change trains at Southampton Central earlier this summer to be reminded of how impressive, at least aesthetically, the new Reading station is. But the comments above about how draughty and cold it can get are well made, and the dramatically upswept roofs give too little shelter. See elsewhere for comments on diesel fumes accumulating in the overbridge in certain wind conditions, its floor turning into an ice rink when it gets damp etc. I do hope someone learns form this when Network Rail rebuild their next major station. And it has to be said that I was able to make myself as comfortable for a late snack lunch at Southampton while waiting for my connection as I would have been in the much grander surroundings at Reading.  


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: Trowres on August 12, 2019, 22:14:34
Newport (South Wales) is a stunning example of how to combine dreariness and inconvenience.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: johnneyw on August 12, 2019, 22:43:21
Newport (South Wales) is a stunning example of how to combine dreariness and inconvenience.

Crossing platforms on the new station bridge does seem to be a rather slow and circuitous experience compared with many other bridges covering similar distances between platforms.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: TonyK on August 13, 2019, 10:48:45
Sampford Peverell is a lovely name! Shame they changed it - it's not even as if Tiverton is such a massive or well known place. Mind you, I don't really like the whole Parkway name and concept, so I'm biased even without having been there.

It's not a bad little place either. there is a pleasant stroll to be had along the towpath of the canal, with the Globe strategically placed for refreshments. Tiverton is what passes for a sprawling conurbation 7 miles away. It is soon to gain that symbol of growth that marks the change to a proper town - a Lidl!

If only the Tiverton line had remained - I live a matter of a two-minute walk to what was the only intermediate station between town and junction. Part of the alignment remains, and forms a pleasant walk between the Grand Western Canal and the outskirts of the town, at Great Western Way. The site of the station is now occupied by a Travis Perkins store.


Title: Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Post WW2 Railway Station Architecture
Post by: stuving on April 17, 2020, 14:48:58
1970s or 1980s revamp of High Wycombe is horrid

Its old friend is going to be prettied up, according to the architects Hawkins\Brown (https://www.hawkinsbrown.com/news-and-events/news/hawkins-brown-wins-planning-for-refurbishment-and-expansion-of-1854-brunel-engine-shed):
Quote
Hawkins\Brown wins planning for refurbishment and expansion of 1854 Brunel Engine Shed \ 17/04/2020

Sensitive refurbishment of the grade II listed Victorian building in High Wycombe will create space for a mix of new commercial uses. A CLT and Glulam extension with zinc cladding will mirror the form of the existing building and add a mezzanine level, almost doubling the floorspace on site.

Hawkins\Brown has won planning consent for the 13,560 sq ft refurbishment and extension of an 1854 railway shed in High Wycombe built by Isambard Kingdom Brunel for the Great Western Railway. Working with engineers Heyne Tillett Steel on behalf of the former Wycombe District Council, now Buckinghamshire Council, which acquired the site in 2019, the practice has designed a scheme to breathe new life into the historic structure with a range of flexible commercial uses.
(https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hawkinsbrown/images/news/_articleImage/News_2004_BrunelEngineShed_Credit-Hawkins-Brown.jpg?mtime=20200415183442)
The Brunel Engine Shed sits on an island site directly in front of High Wycombe railway station, at a key location within the council's plan to regenerate the eastern district of the town.

The shed will be sensitively refurbished, with a welcoming new main entrance facing High Wycombe Railway Station and improved landscaping. A new roof will restore the original character of the building and major improvement will be made to access: including step-free access from the main entrance, accessible toilets and a new lift for the mezzanine level of the extension.

A new extension to mirror the form of the existing building will add 6,000sq ft to bring the whole scheme to 13,560 sq ft. Standing seam zinc cladding will be applied to the CLT and Glulam structure of the new building to create an extension that expresses modern structural engineering in the same spirt that the Victorian building reflects its own era.



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