Great Western Coffee Shop

Going to be using this service in Mid April to travel from Cardiff-Chester, booked my tickets today and got really cheap tickets which I was happy about  :)

Just wondering if the 9.20am from CDF is usually 175 or 158 train?  It seems to be mainly 158's from what ive seen recently at CDF.

Should be a 175 - afaik it forms the 1320 off Holyhead which was a 175 earlier today.

Dont count on it.

80% of the time they're 158's

Tends to be 50/50

I use that line quite a lot (usually ludlow to shrewsbury/newport)

I dont mind either (and I am fussy passenger)

On a point of order Mr Chairman, is Cardiff to Holyhead really a South Wales local journey?  ???

I think not.

Does it really matter?

I think not!

Sez you.  :)

I thought all the Holyheads were supposed to be 175s.  Weren't they acquired for that purpose and for the Manchester/Milford Haven run?  They aren't used for anything else AFAIK.

Gents, it's always hard to know where to draw the line;  I'm quite happy with the forum discussing FGW subjects, and other operator's services that start in / end in / go through the area FGW serves.

In some cases it's hard to know which "journey" board it should go in and 7 of the moderators (sitting today in Melksham) have all just agreed with me that at times it will mean a particular journey appears in a board who's title isn't quite right, but it's the best place for it.  (We really don't want to fragment the forum by having huge numbers of boards for very specific sections such as "Cardiff - Holyhead")

Quite right and of course it doesn't matter.

I was being humorous (I thought).  I'll go to Tesco's instead.

Probabaly not but it was the most appropriate section to put it in IMO, out of the options available, since this service calls at Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran, Pontypool & New Inn and Abergavenny which could be considered South Wales local stations.  ;) 

Also this journey is quite an interesting one as it goes from South Wales into England (Herefordshire, Shropshire), back into Wales (Wrexham area), back into England (Chester) and then into Wales again (North Wales.)

I realise this is a FGW board but as I live in South Wales the majority of trains I use are ATW (and TBH I prefer ATW over FGW) so unless we can have an ATW coffee shop sub forum?  ;D

Thats what I thought too. Although I do know the 175's are used on most if not all the  Manchester to North Wales services.  Also 90% of the West Wales-Manchester services are indeed 175's.  Did travel on a 158 from Cardiff on this service on Monday though so there are certainly still some 158's used.

Cardiff-Holyhead I wasnt so sure about as ive not used this service before, and when ive seen it depart from either Cardiff or Newport it has been a mixture of 175 and 158 but more so 158's I think so seems a bit more random than the Manchester to North/South Wales services.

Yeah ... but many a true word spoken in jest and you gave me an excellent and much appreciated chance to clarify.

Anything good on offer at Tesco today?   We had the second Christmas turkey we bought on 24th December over Easter ...  ;D

Dont think the 9.20 from Cardiff will be the 13.20 back from Holyhead? According to my print out from ATW the train wont get me into Chester until 12.28 and I think its at least another hour and half to Holyhead.   CDF to Holyhead is one of ATW's longest journey's probabaly second to the Milford Haven/Carmarthen-Manchester services so really should get the best trains.

For the record though I do not mind 158's at all. They remind me of Wales and West and Wessex trains (cant think why  ;)) so I like them  :)  So really I wouldnt be bothered if it was a 175 or 158, I just wondered.

I've been asked before about providing boards relating to other Train Operating Companies and I keep telling people there's no demand for it  ;D.    But seriously, the business I work in was started off because of three requests for a product that sounded far more outrageous than this, and I am fully aware of the need.

The "First Great Western Coffee Shop" has a clear demarkation at the edges of the frachise and that was something that was a very clear decision when we started up here - other such as railchat and commuterjunction and ticketcollector have gone wider.  They also have other approcaches / policies; we're for the passenger and for reasoned discussion to the exclusion of getting personal - they may (or may not) allow some of that, and are much more for staff and / or   enthusiasts.  And this was actually discussed by the majority of moderators earlier today. 

The overwhelming concensus is that we welcome posts that cover journeys by other operator's services that start / end / go through FGW served stations.   We're pretty much where we feel it's best for us to be, but we are happy to make tweaks and will be doing so.  Adding an ATW forum would then lead us to add an SWT forum and a TFL one perhaps - then an AXC one and so it would go. And we don't have the time / resources to diversify into that, not do we wish to dilute the current concentration to areas that, frankly, the current team may not know very well - sorry.

But I can offer four options.

* You are very welcome indeed to post on / in "South Wales journeys" (and I can take out the work local if you like for ATW matters.

* You are also welcome to post on our Save the Train Great Britain (http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/forum/index.php?board=9.0) board, which is a newsreel of issues across britain that are of genertal interest

* You could set up your own ATW equivalent of this site, but be warned that's an awful lot of time being taken.

* You could approach me / my company and contacts to ask about setting up and/or hosting and/or advising on a similar site to this one but for ATW. This would require some sort of financing, and you would still need to do a lot of work on content and operation to have it take off.  We are helped by FGW having got themselves such a dreadful reputation and discontended customer base; ATW come higher in all the leagues that I have seen.

I was going to say that was definitely off topic.  But it was a South Wales local journey.

No, they didn't.  I wanted some cod so I had to go to ASDA as well.  So I got soaked 4 times.

Yes thats fine, Grahame   :)


LOL! Not by FGW though  ;)

Sorry I really can't read my own computer screen at the moment ...  ;D ;D

I clarified the booked unit diagram on a railway computer system tonight and it's showing it's booked a 3 coach 175. When I passed it on the 13.20 I don't think any 158s passed us except for one at Bangor.

Thanks for the info.

Did this journey today between Cardiff and Chester. It was a 158 out (0920 from CDF) and a 175 back (1820 from Chester).  So yes looks like a mix of both 158 and 175.

I actually like both 158 and 175 but I think 175 are more comfortable obviously as they are newer.

I would say I would perfer a FGW 158. ATW 158's have Chapman uncomfortable seats and if it had original seats it would have been more comfortable.

Yes this ATW 158 had the Wales/West blue seats. Some ATW trains have new seat covers though.

Quite surprised to see it was a 175 back as I expected another 158, but it was a lot more comfortable!

The new Arriva Trains Wales North South Premier Service will run from 15 December between Holyhead and Cardiff (links below.)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7659142.stm

http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/story.php?id=5242

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2008/10/08/new-faster-rail-service-for-north-wales-55578-21992574/

But Clwyd South AM Karen Sinclair protested because the service, cutting the five-hour journey by 30 minutes, will not link directly to Wrexham.

The Welsh Assembly Government has also announced a new half-hourly Cardiff to Merthyr Tydfil service for May 2009.

The Holyhead-Cardiff service will arrive in the capital by 1000 BST each day and depart at 1620 BST.   

Ms Sinclair said the assembly government should rethink its plans, which she called "bad news for my constituents".

Deputy First Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones said the new north-south service would mean passengers would be able to travel between Bangor and Cardiff in under four hours.

Initially, the new service will be routed via Crewe rather than Wrexham as Network Rail is currently unable to offer a path from Holyhead to Cardiff via the town which will arrive in the capital before 1000 BST.

He added that the assembly government would seek to develop the route at the earliest opportunity, including routing via Wrexham and examining the case for an early south-north return service.

The new Cardiff to Merthyr line is timetabled to start in May next year following the completion of improvements and signalling at Abercynon and on the Merthyr branch line.

Mr Jones said the route was great news for the valleys and underlined the assembly government's commitment to making the whole region an attractive location for people to live and work in.

According to Rail magazine  (Issue 602) they'll be using the Arriva Mk2's that were in store at Long Marston and they are now being refurbished at Eastleigh.  The service is going to hauled by Virgin 57/3 Thunderbirds and crew training has already started.

At last, a few of the 200 coaches at Long Marston will be used!

The North Wales Coast Railway site has pictures of the driver training trips in its noticeboard update for October 14, using assorted Cargo-D Mk2 and Mk3 coaches. The site suggests that ATW may include a Mk3 buffet in the formation, which would also be a way to provide first class seating - all the existing Arriva-liveried stock is standard class.

As for serving Wrexham, apart from problems getting a path on the single line, you would also need either a second loco to take over on reversal at Chester, or a DVT - maybe if they ask W&S nicely...

According to the link below, services will be formed of up to six carriages ^ one first class carriage, one restaurant car (cooked breakfast ^50  :o) and four standard class vehicles.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2008/11/03/north-wales-to-cardiff-express-criticised-55578-22169617/

The service is being criticised for being too costly and too slow, apparently.

Now, if they had some 180s....

Not only that, Lee! :o ::):


No sign of a credit crunch in Wales, then??  :P

There won't be much of a Credit Crunch in Wales (or Scotland), not with all that Lovely ENGLISH tax payers money the Welsh Assembley (Scottish Parliament) get given   :(

But then at least some of those colourful bits of paper with a picture of HRH Queen on, get spent on Railway schemes.  ;D

A strange way of marketing it. Effectively buying an overpriced breakfast gets you access to 1st Class. As opposed to a ^50 supplement for 1st Class with a brekkie thrown in free.

If you live in Anglesey then the flight will always be more attractive, but the further east along the coast you live then by the time you drive to Valley the two options become more comparable. 

And another comment from me, if I'm permitted. Having just tried the Highland Airways online booking system, the next working date on which there is availability for both the morning and evening flights is next Thursday, ie a week away.  So whilst that shows that the service is well used, it also shows that there will obviously be potential passengers who are turned away, even if they do wish to fly.

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere but is it still a 2 hourly service to Holyhead? A the moment we only have 1 train per hour.

I wonder if there will ever be first class on the Cardiff-Manchester services too.

I would suggest that there would be a market for it if ATW did bring first class back to Cardiff-Manchester services.

Believe First Class will only on the loco hauled stock and will be formed of an ageing mk2 coach.

Unless they do a comprehensive refurb the interiors will probably look similar to this (standard class interior will be similar to that featured on the forthcoming Taunton-cardiff loco hauled for FGW:
First Class http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/p49462672.html
Standard http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/p49462643.html

Not exactly modern looking is it!!

No, but look at all those tables. And I bet the seats are comfortable too. I'd much rather have that on the London service than what we've got.

Those coaches look nice! Although as they will be operated by ATW, they'll get dirty (I don't think ATW hire cleaners!).

It's very interesting how loco hauled is creeping back particularly on the longer distance non Inter City routes.

Holyhead Cardiff Shrewsbury London Now Tauton Bristol.

In a way it makes sense, if electrification is going to happen in  a few years. If you buy new DMUs for such routes they won't get their full working life otr they'll spend most of their times under the wire.

Also coaches don't tend to break down as often as DMUs also they can refurbished several times. So you start a service with diesel loco and coaches, when the wires go up for part of the route you  put an electric loco on the front and change at the boundary. This was what BR did with he West Coast once the wires were up from Euston to Crewe everything was electric out of Euston with a loco change at Crewe if necessary.

The diesel IEP should be scrapped and sets of hauled coaches with DVT and splitable foramtions ordered plus lots of wires. Then Padd Plymouth can be, electric loco plus 10 to Plymouth and diesel plus 5 in Cornwall. Which would cost 20 million for 10 coaches and two locos as opposed to 30 million for a 10 coach diesel IEP.

Funny how slowly but surely loco haulage is making a comeback. Beats a cramped DMU on a long distance journey anyday and that includes Voyagers, Meridians and whatever else they are called.

All very well, except that 'new' diesels will probably be approaching retirement before the wires reach Plymouth. Apart from government lack of will and arguable unsuitability of Plymouth as an electrification target, (which will keep the powers that be arguing for years), it took 11 years for the great cities of the north to be brought onto the sparks network from London and 18 for Glasgow to be connected.

In the interim, a few more LHS but with driving trailers rather than a dead loco on the end would IMO, be a decent solution.  Good for ATW.

Yes I think its silly dragging a dead loco around all the time when there is an abundance of DVTs lying idle. I think the reason that they are only just starting to use DVTs with diesel locos is that modifications to rolling stock are required.

Lets get the 200 carriages out of Honeybourne before they get nicked.

Can anyone tell me if the 0720 Cardiff to Holyhead is usually a 158 or 175?

Believe all north-south services are booked for 175s.

Cheers.

Ive noticed all West Wales-Manchester services are now 175 but I still spot 158's doing some of the Holyhead services.

Nope.

still an abundance of 158's on the service.