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Journey by Journey => Transport for London => Topic started by: grahame on November 08, 2019, 12:32:11 pm



Title: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: grahame on November 08, 2019, 12:32:11 pm
I'm sure I'll be merging this topic later on with previous "Crossrail delay" threads ... but noting that I'm the first to post here ... perhaps a delay is not news any more.  A major project on time WOULD be.

Quote
The opening of London's Crossrail project will be delayed until 2021 as Europe's biggest infrastructure scheme is set to go another £650m over budget.

The route, to be known as the Elizabeth Line, was originally due to open in December 2018.

Crossrail Ltd chief executive Mark Wild said services would be delayed to allow time for more testing.

Wonder if they will make 2021  :o  :-\  :-[

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50345344


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 08, 2019, 05:51:44 pm
I'm sure I'll be merging this topic later on with previous "Crossrail delay" threads ... but noting that I'm the first to post here ... perhaps a delay is not news any more.  A major project on time WOULD be.

Quote
The opening of London's Crossrail project will be delayed until 2021 as Europe's biggest infrastructure scheme is set to go another £650m over budget.

The route, to be known as the Elizabeth Line, was originally due to open in December 2018.

Crossrail Ltd chief executive Mark Wild said services would be delayed to allow time for more testing.

Wonder if they will make 2021  :o  :-\  :-[

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50345344

Pennies compared to HS2, but hey it's a rail scheme so we have come to expect massive delays and overspends.


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: grahame on January 01, 2020, 07:45:54 am
Someone has c*cked up a press release ... at 00:06 this morning, on the news feeds an old article from 31st August 2018.   Oops!

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/elizabeth-line-services-through-central-london-to-start-in-2019

Welcome to 2020, a whole decade prepared for new bloopers!


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: eightonedee on January 01, 2020, 08:54:37 am
Credit where credit is due Grahame.

They did remember to update the year on the copyright date at the foot of the page
!



Happy New Year all!


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: CyclingSid on January 01, 2020, 12:16:58 pm
Crossrail have been quoted in the media today as saying it will finish on time and on budget. It isn't April 1st is it? (Sorry should be the season of goodwill)


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: Marlburian on March 20, 2020, 12:27:13 pm
So much has changed since then!

'Inevitable' impact on Crossrail project from coronavirus, say London mayor (https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/18320945.inevitable-impact-crossrail-project-coronavirus-say-london-mayor/)

How many of the infrastructure projects announced in the Budget will go ahead - and how will they be funded?


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: grahame on March 24, 2020, 03:19:01 pm
So much has changed since then!

'Inevitable' impact on Crossrail project from coronavirus, say London mayor (https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/18320945.inevitable-impact-crossrail-project-coronavirus-say-london-mayor/)

How many of the infrastructure projects announced in the Budget will go ahead - and how will they be funded?

and further ... from myLondon (https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/london-coronavirus-crossrail-works-suspended-17971371)

Quote
The construction of Crossrail has been temporarily suspended in response to the government announcing a lockdown.

The project, which began in 2009, is a 73-mile new railway line stretching from Shenfield in Essex to Reading, Berkshire.

The decision to suspend the building of the line is due to the risk workers face catching and/or passing on the deadly illness, Covid-19.

On Monday evening (March 23), Prime Minister Boris Johnson made the announcement that citizens' movements will be severely restricted over the next three weeks due to the rapid spread of coronavirus.

Despite Johnson not specifically mentioning construction workers, a debate has been raging since the lockdown announcement on whether construction workers should be staying at home.

Sadiq Khan, the London Mayor has prioritised making the London Underground available for key workers at hospitals and in social services.

Mike Brown, London's Transport Commissioner, said: "The Government and the Mayor have given clear instructions to stay safe and to stop travelling in all cases other than critical workers making absolutely essential journeys.

"In line with this, TfL and Crossrail will be bringing all project sites to a temporary Safe Stop unless they need to continue for operational safety reasons.


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 07, 2020, 09:29:45 am
ETCS Testing successfully completed.  From Railway Gazette:  https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/etcs-tested-successfully-on-heathrow-express-class-387s/56178.article

However, there are apparently still some issues to resolve with the TPWS Interface......

Quote
ETCS tested successfully on Heathrow Express Class 387s

An initial series of test runs using Class 387 EMUs equipped with ETCS on the Great Western Main Line has been completed, leasing company Porterbrook announced on April 3.

Using sections of the GWML east of Reading and the branch from Hayes & Harlington to Heathrow Airport, the tests were undertaken by Porterbrook and partners Bombardier, the Department for Transport, DB Cargo UK and Heathrow Airport Ltd. More than 10 test runs over the weekend of March 21-22 were undertaken to prove the functionality of the onboard hardware and software as well as related infrastructure assets.

A dedicated fleet of 12 four-car Class 387 EMUs is to be redeployed by operator Great Western Railway from Thames Valley commuter services to the airport shuttle. The trains are currently being refurbished by manufacturer Bombardier at its Ilford depot, where they are receiving bespoke interiors tailored to the needs of airport passengers.

Once ETCS Level 2 has been commissioned on the branch between Hayes & Harlington and the airport, expected later this year, the Class 387s will replace the Class 332 trainsets which have been used since the inception of Heathrow Express in 1998.

The Heathrow Express service is owned and managed by Heathrow Airport Ltd and is not part of the national franchising system. However, the airport company has outsourced train operations to GWR under a management contract running from 2018 to 2028. The Class 387 fleet will be maintained by GWR at its Reading depot.

‘Notwithstanding these challenging times, we need to continue focusing on delivering key projects so that the railway is ready to support UK plc when the current situation stabilises’, said Mary Grant, Chief Executive of Porterbrook. ‘Introduction of an ETCS-fitted fleet on services to Heathrow is just such a project and will enable a service uplift to meet expected passenger numbers when the airport returns to its role as a key European aviation hub.’


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 12, 2020, 08:04:47 am
ETCS Levels 0, 1 and 2 for use by Class 345 trains now approved by ORR: https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/42879/interoperability-authorisation-class-345-ccs-tsi-2020-05-06.pdf

Health Warning: Even as an S&T Engineer I have struggled to understand some of it  ::)

Edited to amend to ETCS Levels 0, 1 and 2


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: Electric train on May 12, 2020, 08:18:35 am
ETCS Levels 1, 2 and 3 for use by Class 345 trains now approved by ORR: https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/42879/interoperability-authorisation-class-345-ccs-tsi-2020-05-06.pdf

Health Warning: Even as an S&T Engineer I have struggled to understand some of it  ::)

I assume, dangerously for an E&P Engineer  ;D Level 3 is initially for the Crossrail tunnel sections?


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: grahame on May 12, 2020, 08:38:35 am
ETCS Levels 1, 2 and 3 for use by Class 345 trains now approved by ORR: https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/42879/interoperability-authorisation-class-345-ccs-tsi-2020-05-06.pdf

Health Warning: Even as an S&T Engineer I have struggled to understand some of it  ::)

Thank you.  As a retired hotelier and computer programmer, I struggle to understand any of it.   However, I note odd gems in an ore of incomprehensibility.


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: paul7755 on May 12, 2020, 10:52:33 am
ETCS Levels 1, 2 and 3 for use by Class 345 trains now approved by ORR: https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/42879/interoperability-authorisation-class-345-ccs-tsi-2020-05-06.pdf

Health Warning: Even as an S&T Engineer I have struggled to understand some of it  ::)

I assume, dangerously for an E&P Engineer  ;D Level 3 is initially for the Crossrail tunnel sections?

AIUI the TfL core infrastructure actually uses a different CBTC system, either because they didn’t expect ETCS to have reached the necessary functionality before Crossrail commissioning started, or IMHO they decided to have a permanent obstacle to attempts to run other trains through the tunnels. 

I believe they had to jump through quite a few hoops to avoid ETCS in their core section, being a new railway and in scope of TSIs.

Paul


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: paul7755 on May 12, 2020, 11:12:27 am
ETCS Levels 1, 2 and 3 for use by Class 345 trains now approved by ORR: https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/42879/interoperability-authorisation-class-345-ccs-tsi-2020-05-06.pdf

Health Warning: Even as an S&T Engineer I have struggled to understand some of it  ::)
I see it actually refers to ETCS Levels 0,1 and 2 though?  Somewhere in the depths of the document it says Level 3 is not included.  (Is that full physical removal of lineside train detection and signals?)

Paul


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 12, 2020, 12:18:55 pm
ETCS Levels 1, 2 and 3 for use by Class 345 trains now approved by ORR: https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/42879/interoperability-authorisation-class-345-ccs-tsi-2020-05-06.pdf

Health Warning: Even as an S&T Engineer I have struggled to understand some of it  ::)

I assume, dangerously for an E&P Engineer  ;D Level 3 is initially for the Crossrail tunnel sections?

AIUI the TfL core infrastructure actually uses a different CBTC system, either because they didn’t expect ETCS to have reached the necessary functionality before Crossrail commissioning started, or IMHO they decided to have a permanent obstacle to attempts to run other trains through the tunnels. 

I believe they had to jump through quite a few hoops to avoid ETCS in their core section, being a new railway and in scope of TSIs.

Paul

Yes, my schoolboy error.  I should have said Levels 0, 1 and 2 which will be utilised on the shared railway sections.  As I understand it either Level 2 or 3 will be used on the Core Section not used by other trains (well, not for a very long time at least).  The different Levels are explained here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Train_Control_System

Appologies for that error, but my excuse is that when I posted the update I was sitting at my desk at home trying to work out some changes to the mechanical interlocking on an hi-tech GWR 1908 pattern lever frame..... ::) :P


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: Electric train on May 12, 2020, 02:35:32 pm

Appologies for that error, but my excuse is that when I posted the update I was sitting at my desk at home trying to work out some changes to the mechanical interlocking on an hi-tech GWR 1908 pattern lever frame..... ::) :P

ETCS Level 0 ???    If you added ATC would that make it level 1?

I ask as a baffled E&P Engineer


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 12, 2020, 09:23:21 pm

Appologies for that error, but my excuse is that when I posted the update I was sitting at my desk at home trying to work out some changes to the mechanical interlocking on an hi-tech GWR 1908 pattern lever frame..... ::) :P

ETCS Level 0 ???    If you added ATC would that make it level 1?

I ask as a baffled E&P Engineer

Yes it would, but it would need to be the GWR version of ATC ;D


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: Electric train on May 13, 2020, 07:08:34 am

Appologies for that error, but my excuse is that when I posted the update I was sitting at my desk at home trying to work out some changes to the mechanical interlocking on an hi-tech GWR 1908 pattern lever frame..... ::) :P

ETCS Level 0 ???    If you added ATC would that make it level 1?

I ask as a baffled E&P Engineer

Yes it would, but it would need to be the GWR version of ATC ;D

Is there any other,  can just see a 44' 3" ramp would work at 125 mph

Interesting document on the GWR ATC here https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=19&ved=2ahUKEwjV6_iAlbDpAhWbVBUIHcGIACIQFjASegQIBBAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rmweb.co.uk%2Fcommunity%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dattach%26section%3Dattach%26attach_id%3D953953&usg=AOvVaw1NVyPmiY3fex5c6T9LydM8&cshid=1589349951811925


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: Oxonhutch on May 13, 2020, 08:34:43 am
Is there any other,  can just see a 44' 3" ramp would work at 125 mph

Just under a quarter second should be enough, shouldn't it?  ;D

Although reading the attached article, the effective length is only 25'8" so 140 milliseconds might be a bit tight!


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 13, 2020, 08:38:31 am

Appologies for that error, but my excuse is that when I posted the update I was sitting at my desk at home trying to work out some changes to the mechanical interlocking on an hi-tech GWR 1908 pattern lever frame..... ::) :P

ETCS Level 0 ???    If you added ATC would that make it level 1?

I ask as a baffled E&P Engineer

Yes it would, but it would need to be the GWR version of ATC ;D

Is there any other,  can just see a 44' 3" ramp would work at 125 mph

Interesting document on the GWR ATC here https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=19&ved=2ahUKEwjV6_iAlbDpAhWbVBUIHcGIACIQFjASegQIBBAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rmweb.co.uk%2Fcommunity%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dattach%26section%3Dattach%26attach_id%3D953953&usg=AOvVaw1NVyPmiY3fex5c6T9LydM8&cshid=1589349951811925

Yes, it could be done with coded track circuits like the original 1968 Victoria tube line. Level 1 is nothing new.. ;D


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 17, 2020, 08:10:55 pm
Latest Update: https://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-project-update


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 17, 2020, 08:14:55 pm
Latest Update: https://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-project-update

Does that represent a further delay?


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: stuving on May 17, 2020, 08:18:17 pm
Latest Update: https://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-project-update

Does that represent a further delay?

No, it reads almost the same as January's update.


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 18, 2020, 08:51:48 am
I picked out this snippet:

Quote
Each Elizabeth line station has over 50 km of communications cabling, 200 CCTV cameras, 66 information displays, 200 radio antennas, 750 loudspeakers and 50 help points. All this technology needs to be fully installed, tested and integrated.

 :P


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: grahame on May 18, 2020, 09:19:54 am
I picked out this snippet:

Quote
Each Elizabeth line station has over 50 km of communications cabling, 200 CCTV cameras, 66 information displays, 200 radio antennas, 750 loudspeakers and 50 help points. All this technology needs to be fully installed, tested and integrated.

 :P

750 loudspeakers at places like Taplow may lead to complaints of noise nuisance from nearby housing, might it not?


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 18, 2020, 09:29:41 am
I picked out this snippet:

Quote
Each Elizabeth line station has over 50 km of communications cabling, 200 CCTV cameras, 66 information displays, 200 radio antennas, 750 loudspeakers and 50 help points. All this technology needs to be fully installed, tested and integrated.

 :P

750 loudspeakers at places like Taplow may lead to complaints of noise nuisance from nearby housing, might it not?

I think they are speaking of the central section stations (pun intended) ;D


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: Electric train on May 18, 2020, 01:47:27 pm
I've been in one of the Contractors Lab / development area.  It would be complex in its self if it was just one company supply systems but its not.  There are large companies who are normally in cut throat competition with each other have to work collaboratively.

One concern they have (and they are a the UK part of Germany company) is the free flow of information and engineers after the 31st Dec 2020, whilst it will not stop progress may be slowed down


Title: Re: Crossrail - further delay
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 19, 2020, 07:06:52 am
I picked out this snippet:

Quote
Each Elizabeth line station has over 50 km of communications cabling, 200 CCTV cameras, 66 information displays, 200 radio antennas, 750 loudspeakers and 50 help points. All this technology needs to be fully installed, tested and integrated.

 :P

750 loudspeakers at places like Taplow may lead to complaints of noise nuisance from nearby housing, might it not?

Depends who's singing.



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