Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture - related rail and other transport issues => Topic started by: JontyMort on December 05, 2019, 05:51:19 pm



Title: Railway station vs train station
Post by: JontyMort on December 05, 2019, 05:51:19 pm
Red tape obviously too thick again!   ::)

Still, it gives a bit of a performance buffer to help the introduction of the new timetable go a bit smoother I suppose.

Meanwhile GWR have got a poster up - in Famous Five style - which says it's a "train station". Oh dear.


Title: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Reading General on December 05, 2019, 06:33:07 pm
Red tape obviously too thick again!   ::)

Still, it gives a bit of a performance buffer to help the introduction of the new timetable go a bit smoother I suppose.

Meanwhile GWR have got a poster up - in Famous Five style - which says it's a "train station". Oh dear.
God I hate that. I’m starting to think we’re fighting a losing battle against newspeak. Train station has only really become popular in the last 10 years and it’s the media which have spread the term. My argument against the term is always a motorway junction is not referred to as a car junction. I expect better from GWR.


Title: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Bmblbzzz on December 05, 2019, 07:53:34 pm
Really? I remember people using it in the 1980s. Ngram only goes up to 2008 but shows it taking off in the 1970s, almost reaching parity in 2000 and declining from then on.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=18&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0

For American English it's a different picture, with "train station" overtaking "railway station" in the late 80s and not looking back, but – interestingly – no corresponding decline in "railway station".
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=17&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0

Even more curiously, if we add "bus station" to the comparison, it closely shadows the rise and fall of "train station".
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station%2C+bus+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=18&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cbus%20station%3B%2Cc0


Title: Railway station vs train station
Post by: JontyMort on December 05, 2019, 09:49:21 pm
Really? I remember people using it in the 1980s. Ngram only goes up to 2008 but shows it taking off in the 1970s, almost reaching parity in 2000 and declining from then on.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=18&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0

For American English it's a different picture, with "train station" overtaking "railway station" in the late 80s and not looking back, but – interestingly – no corresponding decline in "railway station".
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=17&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0

Even more curiously, if we add "bus station" to the comparison, it closely shadows the rise and fall of "train station".
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station%2C+bus+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=18&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cbus%20station%3B%2Cc0

That is the point. "Bus station" is a perfectly OK back-formation from "station". "Train station" is an unnecessary double back-formation.


Title: Railway station vs train station
Post by: stuving on December 05, 2019, 10:21:00 pm
Really? I remember people using it in the 1980s. Ngram only goes up to 2008 but shows it taking off in the 1970s, almost reaching parity in 2000 and declining from then on.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=18&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0

For American English it's a different picture, with "train station" overtaking "railway station" in the late 80s and not looking back, but – interestingly – no corresponding decline in "railway station".
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=17&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0

Even more curiously, if we add "bus station" to the comparison, it closely shadows the rise and fall of "train station".
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station%2C+bus+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=18&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cbus%20station%3B%2Cc0

Well, bus station you'd expect to be dying out as bus stations disappear. And surely in the USA it's always been railroad, not railway? In that case apparently railroad was overtaken in the US by railway some time ago.

Do I believe that? No. Isn't Ngram's corpus only books, which don't match everyday usage at all, largely because the subject mix is so different. A news media corpus would match better, despite the weird vocabulary they use.


Title: Railway station vs train station
Post by: didcotdean on December 05, 2019, 11:12:18 pm
Train station appears back into the 1850s in newspapers. Certainly has the advantage over railway for being shorter, at least before that was regularly shortened to rail.


Title: Railway station vs train station
Post by: grahame on December 06, 2019, 06:31:59 am
I keep coming back to thinking I should visit a "fire station" if I'm feeling cold and want to find a fire to warm me up.


Title: Railway station vs train station
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 06, 2019, 06:36:19 am
Really? I remember people using it in the 1980s. Ngram only goes up to 2008 but shows it taking off in the 1970s, almost reaching parity in 2000 and declining from then on.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=18&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0

For American English it's a different picture, with "train station" overtaking "railway station" in the late 80s and not looking back, but – interestingly – no corresponding decline in "railway station".
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=17&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0

Even more curiously, if we add "bus station" to the comparison, it closely shadows the rise and fall of "train station".
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=train+station%2Crailway+station%2C+bus+station&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=18&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctrain%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Crailway%20station%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cbus%20station%3B%2Cc0

That is the point. "Bus station" is a perfectly OK back-formation from "station". "Train station" is an unnecessary double back-formation.

I'd like to be the first to welcome Alan Partridge to the Coffee shop forum.


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Reading General on December 06, 2019, 09:06:52 am
Simon and Garfunkel use railway station in the tune Homeward Bound, rather than the popular American ‘railroad’. I think train station possibly derived from a city metro somewhere in America such as the Chicago L train. Many subway/metro lines are referred to as trains, the A train in New York for example, so people would refer to the station as an A train station.
I never remember anybody using the term train station in the late 80’s early 90’s heyday of practically everybody I knew my age using the railway around Reading, in fact I think just station was the most popular. When you say station in the UK nobody gets confused as to what you mean, I’m not sure why many old enough to know better have added ‘train’ on the beginning as much as I’m not sure why people call it ‘Reading station’ when in Reading as, while in Reading, it’s just the station. Pedantic.


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: JontyMort on December 06, 2019, 09:46:21 am
Simon and Garfunkel use railway station in the tune Homeward Bound, rather than the popular American ‘railroad’. I think train station possibly derived from a city metro somewhere in America such as the Chicago L train. Many subway/metro lines are referred to as trains, the A train in New York for example, so people would refer to the station as an A train station.
I never remember anybody using the term train station in the late 80’s early 90’s heyday of practically everybody I knew my age using the railway around Reading, in fact I think just station was the most popular. When you say station in the UK nobody gets confused as to what you mean, I’m not sure why many old enough to know better have added ‘train’ on the beginning as much as I’m not sure why people call it ‘Reading station’ when in Reading as, while in Reading, it’s just the station. Pedantic.

You of all people should still be calling it Reading General 🙂


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Reading General on December 06, 2019, 10:05:11 am
General is added in my head as it was always in brackets in my time. My dad used to refer to it as General station, while bus drivers always called it stations plural. Habits took a long time to die at the corporation.


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Oxonhutch on December 06, 2019, 10:10:20 am
Simon and Garfunkel use railway station in the tune Homeward Bound, rather than the popular American ‘railroad’...

Maybe becaue Paul Simon wrote the song (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeward_Bound_(Simon_%26_Garfunkel_song)) at Widnes railway station - of all places!


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 06, 2019, 10:17:41 am
This is one of those Whack-a-Mole topics...

I make no apology for once again referring readers to Michael Quinion's article (http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/trains.htm) which covers the etymology of a host of railway terms, on both sides of the pond. Quinion's article is getting on a bit now, but I think the gist of it remains true.

Whether you choose to say 'train station' or 'railway station', almost everyone will know what you mean.

Your choice could however be a dog-whistle to anyone with sensitive hearing: Using 'railway station' might suggest to the listener that you are the kind of person who thinks miles are morally superior to kilometres, or who prefers to know what the temperature is in Fahrenheit (on hot days, anyway), and who secretly misses the half-crown coin. Using 'train station', on the other hand, might make you look like a pensioner dressed in Aeropostale.

Live and let live, I say.


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: stuving on December 06, 2019, 10:21:44 am
Simon and Garfunkel use railway station in the tune Homeward Bound, rather than the popular American ‘railroad’...

Maybe becaue Paul Simon wrote the song (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeward_Bound_(Simon_%26_Garfunkel_song)) at Widnes railway station - of all places!

Plus, if he was tempted to reamericanise it later, putting "railroad" in would make it much less singable. Adding even a soft American "d" to the consonant group "st" at the end of a short syllable blocks the metrical flow of the piece.


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Phantom on December 06, 2019, 11:09:13 am
I was having this conversation recently, I was told they were catching a "train" from the station so it must be a "Train station" ??


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Reading General on December 06, 2019, 11:31:02 am
Simon and Garfunkel use railway station in the tune Homeward Bound, rather than the popular American ‘railroad’...

Maybe becaue Paul Simon wrote the song (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeward_Bound_(Simon_%26_Garfunkel_song)) at Widnes railway station - of all places!

Plus, if he was tempted to reamericanise it later, putting "railroad" in would make it much less singable. Adding even a soft American "d" to the consonant group "st" at the end of a short syllable blocks the metrical flow of the piece.
Multisyllabic rhyming


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: broadgage on December 06, 2019, 12:37:25 pm
I would prefer "railway station" as that is the traditional term in the UK.
This however is not a subject on which I have strong feelings, and is a long way behind many other things to worry about. Including BOTH the "B words"


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 06, 2019, 01:26:43 pm
I would prefer "railway station" as that is the traditional term in the UK.

Well in that case you must continue to use it. Me? I'll stick to 'train station' - do I look good in ripped jeans?


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Bmblbzzz on December 06, 2019, 04:54:46 pm
Simon and Garfunkel use railway station in the tune Homeward Bound, rather than the popular American ‘railroad’.<snip> Pedantic.
Strictly speaking, they use it in the lyrics, not the tune.

Hit me slow, hit me quick! Hit me with your pedant stick!


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: JontyMort on December 06, 2019, 06:06:23 pm
This is one of those Whack-a-Mole topics...

I make no apology for once again referring readers to Michael Quinion's article (http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/trains.htm) which covers the etymology of a host of railway terms, on both sides of the pond. Quinion's article is getting on a bit now, but I think the gist of it remains true.

Whether you choose to say 'train station' or 'railway station', almost everyone will know what you mean.

Your choice could however be a dog-whistle to anyone with sensitive hearing: Using 'railway station' might suggest to the listener that you are the kind of person who thinks miles are morally superior to kilometres, or who prefers to know what the temperature is in Fahrenheit (on hot days, anyway), and who secretly misses the half-crown coin. Using 'train station', on the other hand, might make you look like a pensioner dressed in Aeropostale.

Live and let live, I say.

Thanks for posting the link to Michael Quinion's article.

Curiously, he doesn't mention "depot" - see "High Noon" throughout.


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: eightonedee on December 08, 2019, 09:06:19 pm
While I am a "railway station" rather than a "train station" person, I don't think that this linguistic shift matches what has happened to another term since I was a 6 year old trainspotter in the early 1960s - Engine Sheds became Motive Power Depots (which sounds rather grand for a place filled with filthy neglected blue diesels) to "Train Care Depots" - which sounds like they get pedicures and massages!


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Bmblbzzz on December 09, 2019, 12:15:47 pm
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/75/c6/ff/75c6ff3bf1d2f4c761462b1c082b56b0--thomas-the-tank-engine.jpg)


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on December 12, 2019, 04:52:46 pm
Not a railway station, nor a train station, but a...

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80278777_562856741232371_8198529510736396288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=RoiUBYPEiEIAQm5BEFDGYDosZao33ZuIHDCNxNreincfkVFst6_2P-6sA&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=8c83b49334a5ba102b18fbe6e4301b37&oe=5E841D0A)


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: JontyMort on December 12, 2019, 04:56:40 pm
Not a railway station, nor a train station, but a...

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80278777_562856741232371_8198529510736396288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=RoiUBYPEiEIAQm5BEFDGYDosZao33ZuIHDCNxNreincfkVFst6_2P-6sA&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=8c83b49334a5ba102b18fbe6e4301b37&oe=5E841D0A)

Except in Scotland, where it's a Polling Place.


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Bmblbzzz on December 12, 2019, 05:21:29 pm
And in Wales I guess it's a safl reilfordd "polling".


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: johnneyw on December 12, 2019, 07:47:20 pm
So that's why they looked confused when I turned up the vote at the local Police Station?


Title: Re: Railway station vs train station
Post by: Bmblbzzz on December 13, 2019, 06:15:41 pm
I thought heddlu was a Welsh heffalump.



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net