Great Western Coffee Shop

What's happening to timetables on 15th December 2019?   What will it mean?

1. Over the past couple of years, GWR's fleet of High Speed Trains (HSTs) which were diesel have been replaced by IETs which run on electric power from Paddington and switch to diesel in most cases somewhere on the way to their final destination.   Under electric power, they accelerate much more quickly from stops and just at present (writing this early December), they arrive at many places early and then have to wait.   As from 15th December, a new timetable comes into effect which reduces these stops back to just the time needed for passengers to get on and off, and in the process speeds up the overall journey.  The new trains also have automatic doors, so the time stopped at each station - especially unstaffed stations - can be reduced, again helping the overall journey time for longer journeys even under diesel power.

That's good news... and it has some side effects

a) If a train leaves London at the same time it always has, it will now be earlier at junctions with other lines along the way.   That means that local trains have to be adjusted to allow the retimed express to call at a different time. And following on from that, a local train arriving at the junction even at the same time as it used to might now fail to make a connection that used to be there and useful.

b) With train arriving earlier at their final destination, they can head back again sooner – net result being the can make more journeys per day and that releases some trains to run as "extras".  You'll see trains labelled "superfast" in the new timetables – these are what the government and GWR have decided to run with the extra trains released from other services.  They run non-stop between Bristol Parkway and London, and between Chippenham and London.

c) "Super-fasts" put more trains on the same lines, squeezing further the capacity and making it even more difficult for the timetablers to squeeze in all the local trains.  For the most part, they have done a good job, but there are examples of service reductions of local trains into both Bristol Parkway and Swindon.

d) Passengers from Bath and Chippenham, and from South Wales and Bristol Parkway will find that they now have three trains an hour not 2 to London. However, one of these is "superfast" so that passengers from those stations for Swindon and Reading will find longer gaps with a wait of up to 40 minutes between trains.

e) The nearest train to an old time has, in some situations, mean that an off-peak train has been replaced by a peak one, and this may result in a substantial price increase on 16th December (with a further annual increase on 2nd January). A number of historic "derogations" which have allowed off peak tickets to be used on service which (based on their time) should be peak have also been removed. There's an element of logic here - these derogations were based on a historic lack of trains on the "shoulder" of the peak which has now been filled, but they are really painful for those who are caught / have budgeted to use these trains regularly and were not given good notice.

2. Transport for London takes over the running of local stopping services from London to Reading, using electric trains which (in due course) will continue through London from Paddington to Liverpool Street and onwards to either Shenfield or Woolwich as the Elizabeth Line.   Again, there are side effects - more trains terminating at Reading and significant changes for services onwards from there to Didcot and Oxford and at the intermediate stations.

3. Services from Plymouth through Cornwall step up to 2 per hour.  Not quiet "every half hour" as there are single track sections, and also some stations are only served by one of the two trains every hour.   Many of these trains start back from Exeter, London, or even Cardiff and there are inevitable side effects.

4. 5. etc ... a number of other changes;  Swindon to Gloucester, becomes hourly through trains from London (was alternate London and Swindon starters). Cardiff to Portsmouth - in theory - becomes 5 carriages on most trains (but some delivery delays on trains for the South East meaning that there aren't yet enough cascaded second hand trains available). Looe and Barnstaple branches become hourly.  Improvements from Oxford to and via Evesham and Worcester and a new station at Worcestershire Parkway - though the opening of that has just been postponed until "the New Year".   And this paragraph is NOT intended to be a complete list

* With new timetables, train "diagrams" where trains go on to different next service, and different crew diagrams, I would realistically expect to see a few teething troubles - and so would GWR.  A massive amount of work has gone in to preparing, but inevitably things will crop up; there's also going to be a "bedding in" period where everything is operated with a little caution as it's so new.

* Some old perversities have been removed ... but then a number of people had come to use them, and will miss them.  And local tuning to meet local conditions, years of experience, have in places been swept away in standardisation and supposedly for the greater good or - in one or two cases especially on weekend timetables, where consultation has been lacking, because it's not been given any thought.

Where do I find out more?

On GWR's timetable site
GWR's timetables (not an obvious link) - https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/train-times
GWR's summary of changes - station by station - https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/timetable-2019
GWR's ticket system - https://www.gwr.com/tickets - allows you to find out about trains / recommended connections without actually buying
If you are purchasing, you can do so fro the GWR web site without transaction fees that you may encounter elsewhere

On / via our site

Navigate from the top - look up your general category of go line by line from http://gwr.passenger.chat

Links to old and new National Rail timetables  - via http://gwr.passenger.chat/smr/AVF.html
(replace "AVF" by your own station's three letter code or go via index at http://gwr.passenger.chat/smr/index.html

http://gwr.passenger.chat/search.html?search=luxulyan
(replace "luxulyan" by your station or another keyword)

If you are reading the forum and have a question, please feel free to register (and, yes, it is all free) and ask. {{here}} (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=register)

On other sites

Real time trains - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk - gives an excellent current display of train times from any station and you can look ahead to dates in the future beyond the timetable change.  It also lets you select an individual train and track it all along its route.

Recent train times WILL become useful as we get into the changes - great historic data to chase train reliability - https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk
And while you are travelling, Open train times - https://www.opentraintimes.com - has diagrams to show you where trains actually are.

Looking forward

If any immediate panic / problems are found and can be easily fixed after 15th December, I suspect they will be.  Connections at Twyford and calls at Severn Tunnel Junction in previous timetable changes come to mind.  It's a good idea to flag things up on this forum as well as elsewhere. We do get read and noticed.

From May 17th 2020, relatively small changes that quickly come to light but cannot be fixed 'overnight' may be implemented

From December 13th 2020, more difficult issues may be fixed.  We may also see some other reshaping during 2020, such as a boost of the service from Bristol Temple Meads to Clifton Down and Avonmouth to every 30 minutes.

The current First franchise finishes on 31st March 2020, and First have entered a bid (known as DA3) offering to run a further 2 or 4 years. This has been with the Department for Transport for some considerable time.  We don't know what changes (if any) were in the submitted bid - though we are very much aware of what we would like to see, as are GWR and the Department for Transport.  But it's not in our control or knowledge to know if the next few years is going to be "stand still", some token improvements, or a proper enhancement program - or if there's even going to be cutbacks and austerity; in my personal view that's unlikely but we should be aware of the possibility.

The "Williams review" has been looking at the whole future structure of railway management and operation, including franchising and fares systems, and we await what that brings.  And by this time next week, we may have a new government that decides not to award an extension at all, but to take over the railway operation itself.  Timetable and fare changes from these sources would be unlikely in the extreme before December 2020 and even that would be cutting it tight.

What now?

At this point, 15th December changes are very much fixed.  Use the resources / links about to find out how your journey is effected, and please ask questions of GWR or here on the forum.   Of particular note - there may be indirect alternatives for you - some ideas you'll already find around, others our members may know of.

I've posted a link to this thread on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/CoffeeShopCRP/photos/a.2247872375459869/2536318716615232. and I wonder if I can persuade members (and others who are just browsing) on Facebook to share it to as appropriate please - help get the word out.   Thanks

P.S.  Pretty pictures - taken yesterday - to make it attract attention on that site

The big stories for passengers to, from and within Wiltshire ... I am adding this post to back up what I expect to be said  ;D during a piece on BBC Radio Wiltshire just after 8 a.m. on 10th December, other news allowing.

* Just about all train times change north of Salisbury Plain - check before you travel. This is because the expresses are faster and there are more of them now passing through the county without stopping, and the local and regional trains have been moved so as not to get in their way on an increasingly congested railway.

* Faster trains to London from Chippenham, Swindon, Westbury and Pewsey

* New superfast trains from Chippenham to London in the peak

* Extra train from Pewsey to London filling the long gap in the morning just after the peak

* Crowded Bristol - Bath - Bradford-on-Avon - Trowbridge - Westbury - Warminster - Salisbury - Southampton services mostly extending to 5 carriages, but some delays on this as GWR await delivery of trains for local services around Reading that will release more of their second hand trains to us

* Extra early train from Westbury / Trowbridge / Melksham into Swindon - connection to London at 06:59. Later evening train back allows London connection as late as 19:48

* Almost all Kemble line trains now through to London rather than alternately through to London and "change at Swindon".

Improvements for many - especially London passengers - don't come without effects on some passengers (especially those on some local journeys).  Beware ...

- If you're at CHIPPENHAM and travelling to Swindon, some trains don't call at Swindon any more. In particular, there's a 40 minute gap in the peak now where the maximum gap used to be 25 minutes.  Get on the wrong train and you'll be carried all the way non-stop to Paddington

- If you're an Paddington travelling to SWINDON be careful to catch a train that actually calls there - some now run through express and you could find yourself at Bristol Parkway or Chippenham before you can get off.  There's a similar story for passengers from Bristol (both Parkway and Temple Meads), Bath Spa and South Wales travelling to Swindon

- Connections change ... and at WESTBURY where some lines are infrequent, this will make a very big difference.  Fewer trains west from Westbury will run beyond Exeter meaning an extra change for passengers to Plymouth and Cornwall

- Through services that cease include Swindon and Chippenham to Plymouth and Penzance, and Keynsham and Oldfield Park to Swindon. These were popular through services at the right time of day, but now a change will be needed

- Some trains move from off peak to peak meaning that like for like fares on trains at a similar time will rocket.  This particularly applies for passengers from Pewsey and from Bedwyn to London, but not only there.  Suggestion - take a look at other options including new trains and ticket splitting, and if you're making multiple journeys in a week look at a season ticket as it may now be cheaper. GWR are also releasing more advance fares on the most effected trains, but that's a commercial product not a regulated fare, so this may only be a short term offer.

We expect teething problems - yes, a lot of preparation has been put in, but bugs will still be found and need ironing out.

A big "thank you" to GWR for consultation on the Monday to Friday changes to local trains with the communities involved. Still some awkward changes, but no longer a timetable that just jams in the trains where they most obviously fit. This co-operation obviously for the common good; could really have done with it for weekends.

Note that over Christmas, engineering works at London mean that Paddington will be closed for 4 days and limited right up to the New Year, also services to Wales will be replaced by buses for an extended period.

This year, peak fares will continue to apply on none-holiday days around the festive season rather than being relaxed for the whole period.

Annual fare rise - average 2.7% - on 2nd January 2020 - to look forward to. The new fares are already in the systems and I doubt any new government, whatever it has promised, would have the time between being elected and the New Year to pull it back out.

2020 will be an interesting year with the timetable changes bedding in, and a new operating contract starting on 1st April. First group is the only bidder, but we don't know what's been asked for or bid, nor whether a new government of a different might decide to run the trains itself.

I had it confirmed on Twitter that off-peak fares apply all day on the 27th (Friday), but otherwise weekdays 30th & 31st have peaks as normal (but they seem to be running a peak service too on those days)

A pity GWR doesn't highlight off peak ticket trains in the evening peak in its booking/TT.

You can deduce this from the cheaper singles but it's not very friendly.

OTC

What an outside broadcast looks like (no need to dress smart for the radio):

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/benprater01_20191210.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/benprater02_20191210.jpg)

and what it sounds like: http://www.passenger.chat/Timetable.m4a

Worcester is an interesting example of this. Yes, the service to and from London will be noticeably better. However, the service to and from Bristol will be worse - especially in the morning. It is hardly the most eccentric journey a passenger might need. At present, the 0649 from Shrub Hill connects nicely at Cheltenham into the 0723 Cross-Country, arriving at TM at 0805. From Monday, this will be history. The new 0708 will get to Bristol half an hour later at 0834. Since the previous train is at 0520, there is no choice.

No doubt the changes are mostly positive, but one negative I've found that impacts my local area is that it's no longer possible to travel without a change from Newbury to stations west of Exeter.

If I'm correct, this appears to be because all the Plymouth's and Penzance's run non-stop between Reading and Taunton, at least. So if you want a journey from, say, Castle Cary to Plymouth, that will involve an Exeter change
as well?

Thats not quite true.  There are still some through services in the late afternoon/evening.

Apologies, I've had another look and can see that now. 1516 off Newbury (on a weekday) appears to be the earliest.

F5rom the TfL November Fares newsletter (redacted copy released via FOI request here (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/621934/response/1483111/attach/4/TRU121%20final%20redacted.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1)

Contactless on TfL Rail beyond Hayes & Harlington not being introduced until fares rise on January 2. Daily & weekly capping won't then be introduced, but will be later in the spring of 2020.

PAYG fares not yet available, but will be before Christmas. Only *some* tickets are interavailable with GWR services (not detailed!) - this will be cause serious confusion methinks!

Berware - TFL penalty fare is £80, while GWR doesn't change - £20 or twice the relevant single fare to the next stop, whichever is the higher.

And there are several stations with no ticket gates (notably the quite busyTwyford), so there will be those who are tempted ...

Marlburian

GWR have put out a leaflet (https://fosbr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/20191215_GWR_Stapleton_Road_Lawrence-Hill.pdf) specifically for passengers travelling from Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill to Bristol Parkway. Note that there will be easements for doubling back from Temple Meads to Bristol Parkway.

Indeed ... I missed this post earlier ... follow up from me on the "Bristol Commuter" board:

One day to go... to the biggest timetable change in 40 years. 

From Sky News (https://news.sky.com/story/major-train-timetable-changes-come-in-adding-1-000-new-weekly-services-11885734)


The pre-publicity in the GWR area has been like nothing I have seen before – which is excellent in helping to make sure that people are ready and know what's coming, and there's an awful lot of work going on behind the scenes too to make sure the systems are ready. 

There is bad news for Sunday, 15th December where a perfect storm of a new timetable which is likely to throw up glitches in the first days, a heavy demand for staff holidays which in many cases GWR are obliged to grant, and heavy travel demand as many people visit other parts of their extended families a week before Christmas or take in events such as the final day of the Bath Christmas market.  I have spoken with GWR senior managers on several occasions over the last fortnight; they have culled a number of high speed services ahead of time in order to be able to run the remaining ones without last minute cancellations, and I understand that the "far south west" is also thinned out.  And I understand that a number of senior managers and directors will be on the ground or in other places to pick up immediate issues and help customers in an effective way. 

But Sunday is "just a day" and the real tests start to come on Monday with the timetable that runs on 70% of days (Monday to Friday), and for which staffing is contracted as part of the working week.  Many customers will have been reached already; for the majority it will mean change and with many existing customers having settled into the sometimes-quirky old schedules it will mean they need to work out modified daily schedules - a few severely impacted.  What it will open up too is new opportunities too ...
* Faster trains meaning less "wasted" travel time
* Faster trains meaning less trains needed for an equivalent frequency
* Historic gaps and idiosyncrasies dealt with in some cases
* Opportunities to encourage new custom where train use was previously not an obvious choice

I've been sent a screenshot from a rail website which suggests that the 1010,1315,1615,1815, 2015 Plymouth - Paddington will all be cancelled tomorrow - and the sleeper too (cue sarcastic comments from rail staff on said website)

If that's the case, in that region alone the timetable launch will be a complete farce.

With months/years of warning that this was coming on this date, the inability to resource enough staff to run services points to nothing more than total and utter incompetence on behalf of management, and intransigence on behalf of the workforce.

"Train companies must have plenty of visible staff on hand to guide passengers, to answer questions on how these changes will affect them, and to explain what travel choices they have." - I'll say.

Well, according to Real Time Trains, the Up services from Plymouth to London Paddington are curtailed to 1010, 1315, 1615, 1815 and 2015.  It should be every hour from 0832 to 2015........ >:(

There was always the concern that if GWR couldn’t always manage to operate the existing Sunday timetable due to staff availability, what hope would there be of running a much enhanced timetable? Sadly we’ve got our answer, certainly as far as the crucial first day of the new timetable is concerned. I know some will say that the Monday is the more important day of the new timetable launch.

Okay so these may be ‘exceptional’ circumstances, but if this continues into the New Year then questions may need to be asked if the company was ready staff resource wise to operate the new timetable and was it pushed into doing so by Dft?

Happy to stand corrected - albeit that's an even worse scenario!!!  >:(

Appologies, it wasn't intended to be a criticism, just pointing out what RTT says, which is usually very accurate.  Hope its all fixed in the next two weeks as I'm booked on the 0832 Up and 1903 Down on Sunday 29th December.

No apology necessary - thanks for the accurate information.

One wonders if it'll be even worse next weekend when the main Christmas "getaway" is underway.

A lovely start to the new timetable day for some. The 00:05 from Paddington this morning didn't stop at Burnham or Taplow when apparently it was supposed to, over carrying some passengers to Maidenhead who then taxied themselves home

Just done a retrospective, unscientific glance through the National Rail website for today's Paddington-Reading services and performance seems to be just about average - an occasional cancellation and a few trains running up to eight minutes late.  There are several blue triangle notifications indicating "Amended timetable  This service is not part of the normal timetable and may only be running on the date shown."  As a relatively casual observer, I don't know the reason for these?

Marlburian

Those with a blue triangle will be the additional Paddington-Reading-Didcot shuttles running just today. Seems to be an 8 carriage 387.

New rail timetables off to disastrous start with widespread cancellations and delays (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rail-timetables-new-south-western-gwr-london-paddington-bristol-cardiff-a9247541.html)

Mixed review of my experience of the first day of the new timetable.

First the positives. As mentioned earlier found out Thursday that the train we were due to travel on would be cancelled so we travelled back via Bath changing there. This gave the opportunity to see what the new IETs could achieve with the new times. Could an IET really do Paddington to Bath in 1hr 15 stopping at three stations en route? Well it did for which I’m extremely impressed.

Arrived on time into Bath so we made our connection which was also on time and not too busy despite it being the last day of the Christmas market.

On the not so positive front. I didn’t appreciate being challenged by the Train Manager as to why we were on this train. I said because our train had been cancelled and had been since Thursday. He didn’t believe me and went to look it up.

Eventually accepted our train had been cancelled. I told him I too wasn’t pleased our original train had been cancelled and would have preferred to have been on it and will be late home because it was cancelled.

Was he completely oblivious that trains were being cancelled today due to last night’s Christmas parties?

Did Control inform train crew that tickets were available for travel yesterday, today and tomorrow because of the cancellations today?

I will be raising a complaint with GWR about this because I didn’t appreciate being made to feel I was in the wrong because they cancelled my original train.

I’ve never had a problem with any GWR train managers before who are usually very friendly and helpful at times of disruption and a credit to the company they work for despite everything they have to put up with.

I consider we got off lightly compared to those travelling to/from the South West and Wales today. One decision I have made though that if we have to travel on Sundays in future it won’t be by train until they sort out this issue with Sunday working.

From GWR on Monday ...

"Today"? I thought it started on Sunday? I wonder why they missed that bit out? 🤔

Sad I know, but I watched the evening peak at Paddington last night (16/12/2019) on Open Train Times maps.  I know it was the first evening peak of the new timetable, but my initial observations are/were:

1. Now only one platform (No.7) is being used by Heathrow Express, with a 5-6 minute turnaround, means that any delay quickly escalates to involve an incoming service being held at the home signal gantry with following inbound services gradually stacking up and being delayed behind.

2. Main Line Departures at two minute intervals doesn't work unless dispatch is absolutely bang on time (in lots of cases it wasn't and trains thus got delayed as they caught up at Ladbroke Grove).

3. One service got cancelled (a Hereford train) and the unit blocked the platform for at least 3/4 hour.  This disarranged all subsequent arrivals and departures.  There didn't seem to be any spare capacity allowed for, or any contingency for such events.

4. Key evening departures seemed to be timetabled to leave from the higher numbered platforms in some cases then having a delayed departure due to inbound services having to cross their scheduled path to reach the lower numbered platforms.

5. The 'pinch point' in the track layout on the Relief side didn't help with the increased number of arrivals/departures (this will of course be relieved somewhat when CROSSRAIL eventualy opens).

6. Joining up units in the platforms in the peak is not a good idea, as the 'Calling On' movement from the home signals is carried out at a much slower speed than normal and occupies the station throat much longer, thus causing delay to departures.

7. Full use of the reversible signalling between Ladbroke Grove and Paddington wasn't being utilised, so instead of conflicts being resolved further out from the platforms they occured at the station throat and quickly escalated.

These are just my personal observations based upon 50 years experience of managing such issues in designing schemes to cope with such aspirations.  I have no inside knowledge, of course, of what contingency planning NR/GWR has.

I left Paddington quite early yesterday and the despatch was snappy and bang on time out of platform 9 with a simultaneous parallel departure of a TfL service from 11. The class 345 showed our 80x a clean pair of heels despite some spirited accelaration from our driver who built up enough speed for the mandetory, and very positive, brake test opposite Royal Oak. By Westbourne Park we had started to claw back some advantage from the TfL, but it remained pretty neck and neck until approach to Acton.

Certainly different to the previous, more pedestrian, exits from the Big Smoke. I think a larger fuse has been inserted in the Kensal Green substation.  :)

Nothing at all sad in that - I did the same.  :D

I’d recommend Traksy maps in this example though as there are route indications as well (most, but not all) which OTT are yet to include on that map,  and you can see slightly more without scrolling.


Indeed, and it’s even slower since the Plymouth crash as drivers can go no quicker than 15mph from the signal and 10mph at the platform end.

II, is that just an GWR instruction or a National one?

GWR only AFAIK.

Thanks, II.  Interesting that GWR see it as a risk, but the rest of the railway network doesn't..... ::)

The list of things specific to GWR grows all the time compared with the rule book.  The more restrictive use of the DRA (Drivers Reminder Appliance) on the move being a really stupid one.

I guess it satisfies the safety auditors and shows GWR have ‘done something’ after an incident!