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I think GWR are going to have to look at the timetabling of this service as since the timetable change I have caught this service 8 times (from Didcot) and only once has it arrived in Oxford on time.

On the 8 journeys I have taken it has been 8, 8, 5, 5, 0, 4, 10 and 7 minutes late. and this on a scheduled journey time of 19 minutes.

It appears to be a combination of late arrival of the previous service, from Banbury, into Reading where it has a 7 minute turnaround and/or it gets delayed at Didcot East Junction as the fast Oxfords (and freights) always get priority over this service. It also only has a 9 minute turnaround at Oxford where bizarrely it is timetabled to go to the Carriage Sidings and back before forming the 0835 to Reading. although in reality it has more often than not it just left from the same platform it arrived on. More typically Thames Valley trains have a 20 - 30 minute turnaround time at Oxford.
So with only a 7 minute and a 9 minute turnaround at the beginning and end of the service there appears to be little slack that could be used to make the service more reliable,

Although I am pleased to note that this service has been more typically 3-cars rather than the 2-cars prior to the 15/12, which is essential given the reduction in services in the morning peak between Didcot and Oxford since 15/12.

And we should also give a thought for those customers coming from the West who wish to travel to Oxford who now have a minimum 23 minute wait at Didcot rather than the previous 7 minute wait. Not really a good way to encourage people to use the railways, even if the service ran on time.

This could get a little tedious but it was 6 minutes late today.

As I’ve said previously, I think GWR should abandon the Oxford – Reading peak hour Turbo service, which is unreliable and not well timed.

Better to concentrate on a good Oxford - Didcot shuttle service that connects with up and down 387 stoppers and ML services.

Or get the wires to Oxford asap.

Really needs to be the next priority.

Would I be correct in saying the team working on the GW electrification have now moved over to the MML electrification project?

I understood that the wires from Didcot to Oxford were delayed because of the need for a decision on 4-tracking, - just like Leeds - Micklefield (for York), although there HS3 adds complication.

OTC

HS3. I am losing track was that the line from the former SoS constituency to central London, or was that CrossRail2

I thought HS3 was Leeds to Huddersfield? (Forecast for completion 2150)

0740 "delayed" this morning... no other information at the moment.


Edit-  now saying departed 7 mins late. 

I agree with the others who have said it would be better to stick to a standard Didcot to Oxford shuttle as the peak extensions to Reading seem to be hard to work reliably.

The HS line East of Leeds (it's a good fifty miles on to the coast) has been variously ascribed to both HS2 and 3, depending on geographic loyalties. The existing broadly parallel line hosts local, TP, XC and freight so is busy.

This is another example of HS line long term planning blight.

On the main topic, I've used the 0912 XC to Oxford for six years and only ever been late by 10 minutes.

OTC

Much better today as according to GWR rules the train was on time, in reality it was 2 minutes late. Which is the 2nd best performance I have seen since 15/12.

Back to normal today as 6L in Oxford.

I have taken a look at some of the other Reading - Oxford services and I notice that the

0632 Reading to Oxford (0648 from Didcot), since 15/12 has only arrived on time once , although 0-5 minutes to 85%.
0619 Paddington to Banbury (0702 from Didcot), since 15/12 has never arrived on time, 0-5 minutes is 71%. This is an IEP.

So seems to be a systematic problem.

Yes, a little tinkering required here and there.  Though the fact remains that Didcot is  an acute pinch point that needs serious money spent on it!

Do you mean grade separation or something less?

In the context of ray951's journey to work, I doubt very much if that has any relevance.

Yes indeed.  A proper job!

I think we need to spend a few more decades doing studies first...

I can save them a few decades! My thoughts, previously posted (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18093.0) from waiting several years at this pinch point!  ;D

An excellent plan. As I thought when you posted it originally.

Grade separation won’t solve all the conflict problems at Didcot.  NR will still drop southbound freight trains (often running up to an hour before or after their planned path) in front of Didcot – Padd stoppers at Didcot East, as they do with northbound freights at Scours Lane (Reading West Junction).

Timekeeping will not improve around Reading until freights run through the area in their planned paths.  They should be realistically timed.  They should not be allowed to run early, as that just causes problems down the line.  If they can’t or don’t leave when they should do, they should have to wait until the next empty path to their destination (or at least to a recess point on the route).  And it can’t be fair on regulators in TVSC to have to deal with out-of-path freights that turn up when they shouldn’t do.

We just need a bit more discipline in running freight trains through the congested Thames Valley.  I noticed on Monday morning that a westbound freight left Acton Yard about 50 minutes late, and later caused  delays to Padd – Bedwyn and Padd – Plymouth services down the B&H.  You can see similar examples every day.

While grade separation is a good idea it isn't going to happen any time soon and in the meantime the timetable still needs fixing.

Services this week have been 2, 6, 3, 9, 7 minutes late into Oxford.

In the last 2 weeks this service has been RT 0% and 0-5L 27% and the target is 92%.

Given that the problem with the timetable now appear to be a feature rather than a bug when can we expect something to change? And will it be earlier than May?

It also highlights an issue with Delay-Repay as although this train is late every day passengers aren't due any compensation as the train has not yet arrived more than 15 minutes late.

I doubt much will or can be done until May.  There is a team dealing with logging the regular problem trains across the whole of the network, of which that is clearly one, with a view of working out why and trying to sort out the issues.  For quite a few of them there is no easy fix without alterations to the timetable and other services.

Where is the delay usually incurred with that one?

II thanks for responding and from where I am stood, literally on P5, it looks the following trains appear to be the one causing issues as they all attempt to cross Didcot East Junction before the 0740 to Oxford:

4Q23 Manchester to Southampton FL at 0759
1D14 Paddington to Oxford at 0800
1P16 Worcester to Paddington at 0803

Of course 1P16 has to get through Didcot East Junction before 1L06 Swansea to Paddington which passes through Didcot at 0806.

That all appears to be really tight which is why I guess the 0740 is always late.

As well as the issue with Didcot East, the turnaround time at Reading appears too short and it also can leave Reading late which then causes a bigger problem at Didcot East.

It would be good if GWR could be proactive and put out some information at the station and on the train stating that they are aware of the problem and are dealing with it, etc, etc. Simple customer service.

Why is a freight meandering around commuter land at 0759?

OTC

Because they bid for and pay for the paths.  There’s too much freight around, especially on that key corridor to keep it parked away somewhere for five or six hours a day during the peaks.

Agreed. But don't passengers pay very high peak fares so that the TOC can outbid the price sensitive freight sector/operator?  A five to six hour period with (less)  freight would be in two halves, am and pm and would be both partial and tidal. Also the paths don't seem really to be there as evidenced by the delays and erratic timekeeping. Do freight operators really pay for the delay minutes they cause or does NR (i.e the taxpayer) pick up the bill?

Perhaps we need a fattish controller again.

OTC

If you look at Friday, 4O23 (not Q) was on time at Didcot North, but itself had to wait. So it's unlikely its operators will be paying for what happened afterwards. (Being on time was a bit lucky, as it was late at Oxford North by exactly the recovery time allowed for it there.)

As class 4, can run at 75 mph. What isn't stated about that is how fast it can accelerate. It lost 3 minutes to Didcot East (waiting plus starting up) and 2 more to reach full speed. So I'd suggest the paths are there, provided nothing gets in their way. Once a goods train stops on the line, and has to start up again, that's another matter.

I know NR have been fussing for many years about getting more goods trains into this high-speed (for goods) category, but I'm not sure what they can reasonably demand in terms of power:weight. You might think that big electric locos should be able to do better, as they certainly have more MW on tap. However, acceleration depends on adhesion, and no locomotives hauling 1600 tons are going to match a passenger train with about half its axles motored unless they too weigh half the total train weight. can't see that happening!

Time for some lateral thinking, perhaps...

So a freight train starts off in Southampton and Ends in say Birmingham - quite a short journey really.  

So It cannot leave Southampton till after the peak there and has to be in Birmingham before the peak there.  Just about doable for that journey though not many paths available in that narrow slot.

Oh it could go after the evening peak, but then it hits problems with night closures for maintenance.  

Lengthen that journey to be Southampton to Glasgow and it becomes impossible unless you find some siding to hold the train in for a large part of the day.  They the freight customer complains it would be quicker to send it by road!

Either you accept that freight is all day traffic or we don't have rail freight.  More lorries on roads and more pollution.  

The question is what sort of world we want to live in.

One could ask the same question about all the people who travel long distances in the peak to work each day. Why should they have priority doing that?  Wouldn't it be better if they found work near where they lived or live near where they work?

The question is what sort of world we want to live in.

Bring back the Didcot, Newbury & Southampton!

No thanks. You'd have to demolish my house! (But I do get the sentiment)

On a more serious note, I do wonder whether there are enough passing loops available for freight to be "staged" through key pinch points.

Tinkering with the timetable can always help but the only way of really fixing things is to provide capacity at key junctions like Didcot East to benefit all rail users, both freight and passenger.

Loops sound like the answer, but it's worth thinking about how they actually work. The train mentioned earlier (4O23) has waits of about 15 minutes at Oxford North and Oxford Road (Reading), so if it's up to 10 minutes late it can recover into its path there. It will be out of its path until then, and if it's more than 15 minutes late it will still be out of its path until later on the route. Note that the running time between those pauses is 34 minutes - if you doubled the number of those pauses it would be a big increase in the journey time (already seven hours).

But whenever the train gets going again from a stop, whether in a loop or on the running line, it gets in the way while it gets up to speed. So, while running out of its path, it's worth keeping it going and not forcing it to stop at signals. "Punishing it for being naughty" with a signal stop just delays other passenger trains, and passenger trains stopped to let it pass can reaccelerate quicker. Of course that's all so only "up to a certain point". But note, since these trains will be diesel hauled for the foreseeable future, the fuel burn for every stop and start is worth avoiding.

So the loops have to be in places where congestion is less likely which reduces the impact on other services as the train accelerates or they have to be long enough that the train can get up to speed and have a set of points that supports the maximum speed of a freight train.

Of course it's all about speed and acceleration differentials. Back when Class 101 trains were running local passenger services it was probably a fairly even match. They are arguably not too bad when the 165/166 services are running with relatively slow acceleration and a 90mph top speed. But they definitely don't mix well from a performance perspective with 110mph electrics.

I do wonder about routing away from Didcot East ... from Southampton via Salisbury, Westbury (with a 4th platform relayed), Melksham (two long running loops) and Swindon.  Concerns at the junction at Wooton Bassett and capacity on then to West of Didcot.  Have all the paths that used to be there for coal trains been taken by super fasts?

How different are 75 m.p.h. freights v 90 m.p.h. regional trains calling at most stations?  Could a Southampton to Swindon every hour follow (or be followed) by a Freightliner? Could the pair carry on to Oxford and avoid the need for people from the west having to change at Didcot?


Posted while I was typing ... rather in the same direction I was thinking

This might end up being a rant because I think GWR were trolling the passengers waiting for the 0807 today.

But first an update on the punctuality - on Monday it was 5L and yesterday it was 11L, although it did manage to arrive RT into Didcot (for only the 2nd time).

But today was an absolute farce, I arrived at the station to find that the 0807 had been cancelled due to a fault on a train, which I assumed was the train forming the 0807,okay these things sometimes happen.

At 0813 a 166 crawled slowly through P5, where I was stood, and a quick look at RTT showed that this was in fact the 0807, it appeared to have a single passenger on board. So I asked GWRHelp what was going on and they said it was a fault on another train and there was no fault on the 0740 from Reading. In fact the 0740 ran non-stop from Reading to Oxford and arrived early into Oxford.

Everybody then had to squeeze onto the 0834 Didcot to Banbury which was only 2 carriages, this service then arrived in Oxford 6 late because of the additional stop at Appleford and elongated stops at Appleford and Radley as everybody squeezed on board. Not sure what happened to the passengers for Culham I assume they were sent in taxis or in a coach.

So why was the 0807 canceled from Didcot when it was:
a) Only 6 minutes late, which is a normal occurrence
b) It made the 0834 very overcrowded and 6 minutes late.
c) Annoy even more the regular 0807 passengers..

From realtimetrains it seems that the 06:04 Banbury-Reading that forms the 07:40 Reading-Oxford for whatever reason took 20 minutes to get from Oxford North Junction to Oxford Station, did the booked stops at Radley, Culham and Appleford but after Didcot ran non-stop to Reading but was still 15 minutes late on arrival.

The 07:40 left Reading 13 minutes late but by missing out all scheduled calls arrived in Oxford on time. Not much good for all at those stops.

Missing out intermediate stops on the Thames Valley as a time recovery measure seems far more common than it used to be anecdotally.

Delayed due to the coupling issues with the 06:32 off of Oxford.

I can't recall this ever happening to a train that I've used either way from Tilehurst (and I must have made hundreds of journeys) until yesterday. See my account here. (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=22796.msg280685#msg280685)

I hope that it doesn't become a regular occurrence!

Marlburian

It has happened to me twice in a couple of months, in both cases between Reading and Didcot (though actually of benefit to me). Not a huge number but I too can't remember it before, although I have been on the wrong end of stoppers being terminated short at Reading.

That used to happen all the time, any delays and the Didcot/Oxford stoppers would dump you at Reading and run (pretty much empty), non-stop to Didcot. Several years ago it was very frequent, but has been vastly improved in recent years - can't remember the last time they did that, thank fully.

I'm sure you'll find some old posts about it, I know I complained enough times when it used to happen!

Another update on this service.
Unfortunately this last week has probably been the worst week so far, although it has at least meant that for those eligible, delay-repay has come into play. Although that isn't much of a consolation.

So this week the service has been 7L, 17L, 9L, 19L and 2L.

And for the last 4 weeks this service has arrived Right Time (RT)  - 0% and RT - 5 minutes has been 29%, so 71% of services have been over 5 minutes late.

Still no acknowledgment from GWR at Didcot Parkway or Oxford of the issues with this service and when they are likely to be resolved.

10 late from Didcot this morning...

And the 0820 to Paddington 5 late.

Looks like this was caused by 1P15 0742 OXf to Pad being late which made 4O23 late which then delayed the IP16 Worcester - Pad (0753 from OXF).
Although on Thursday the 1P16 was also late and the 0740 got across Didcot East Junc before that service which is why it was only 1L into Oxford, today that didn't happen so 11L into Oxford.

Timekeeping for this week has been as follows:
M - Cancelled, T - 6L, W - 9L, Th - 1L, and F - 11L.

So still no improvement and now running at 10% cancellation rate for the last 4 weeks.

Another weekly update and no improvement although no cancellations this week.

Time keeping this week M - 6L, T - 3L, W - 9L, Th -8L, F - 10L.

Last 4 week averages RT 0% , RT - 5L 24% which is a drop from 29% last week.

Last RT was 20th December 2019.

Another weekly update and we have good news and bad news.
Amazingly the train arrived RT into Oxford on Friday, only the 2nd time since the timtable change. Again it is on a Friday during the school holidays so it and services would have been lightly loaded; so I can only assume that this train would run on time every day if only there were no passengers. :)

The bad news is that the service was cancelled twice this week, so the record this week is  M - 7L, T - Can, W- Can, Th - 5L and F - RT.

So in last 4 weeks this service has been RT - 5%, RT to 5 min - 24% and Cancelled - 14%

I have been grumbling a lot about GWR and this service over the last few months but I would like to take the opportunity to say thanks to the GWR employee, I think it was the station manager, who today used the station PA at Didcot Parkway to apologise for the continual delays to this service.

He also mentioned that GWR were also looking at problems with evening peak services out of Oxford to Didcot, I don't know what these issues are, other than the fact that all services are now 2 carriages and so are always overcrowded.

Another week and another update:

M - 14L, T- 6L, W - 9L, Th - 9L, F - 9L.
For the last 4 weeks
RT -  5% and RT - 5mins 24%

Given that a lot of these delays are caused by the timetable not working who is reponsible for the delay payments? Are NR paying GWR as the timetable approver or are GWR paying NR as the timetable requestor?

A much better performance from this service this week.
Has there been any change of how this service is signalled at Didcot East as it appears to have taken less time to get across the junction?
Several days this week it has been displayed at 8 - 15 minutes late and then turned up only a couple of minutes late.

So performance this week was M - RT, T - 3L, W - 4L, Th - 5L, F- RT
So that is now RT - 14% and RT-5L - 38% over the last 4 weeks.

Less hope GWR can keep this up next week.

Don't know of any changes, but GWR were going to monitor the worst performing trains from the December timetable, and tweak things around a little bit where possible, prior to more major changes from May.  Perhaps the automatic route setting has been changed to give this train a higher priority?