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All across the Great Western territory => Fare's Fair => Topic started by: grahame on January 22, 2020, 04:00:36 am



Title: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: grahame on January 22, 2020, 04:00:36 am
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51201885)

Quote
A new railcard offering discounted train tickets for military veterans will be launched later this year, the government has said.

The railcard - to be released on Armistice Day in November - will save a third off most train fares.

It will benefit more than 830,000 veterans who do not already qualify for existing discounts, the Department for Transport said.

Serving armed forces personnel already qualify for their own railcard.

"Every part of society should honour the debt we owe those who've served our country," said Transport Secretary Grant Shapps.

He said allowing ex-servicemen and women to travel more easily was "the least we can do".

"This railcard will help open up opportunities to veterans, whether through employment and retraining, or by strengthening links with friends and family," he added.


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 22, 2020, 05:38:37 am
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51201885)

Quote
A new railcard offering discounted train tickets for military veterans will be launched later this year, the government has said.

The railcard - to be released on Armistice Day in November - will save a third off most train fares.

It will benefit more than 830,000 veterans who do not already qualify for existing discounts, the Department for Transport said.

Serving armed forces personnel already qualify for their own railcard.

"Every part of society should honour the debt we owe those who've served our country," said Transport Secretary Grant Shapps.

He said allowing ex-servicemen and women to travel more easily was "the least we can do".

"This railcard will help open up opportunities to veterans, whether through employment and retraining, or by strengthening links with friends and family," he added.

Nice idea.


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 22, 2020, 06:50:00 am
A national railcard, available to all, with additional discount for some, is an even better idea.


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: ChrisB on January 22, 2020, 08:44:51 am
Pointless - cutting fares by a third would achieve your suggestion


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: grahame on January 22, 2020, 08:59:51 am
A national railcard, available to all, with additional discount for some, is an even better idea.

Pointless - cutting fares by a third would achieve your suggestion

Not pointless. A railcard becomes a loyalty card offering better fares to people who buy in - would have some 'ownership'.  Loyal customers, people who have purchase the card, will be more inclined to use rail where they have a choice.

It's not "cutting rail fares by a third" as the majority of people (around 70%?) can already qualify for a railcard or none-railcard discount from the full advertised price.

A single national railcard, perhaps with limited variation, to replace the plethora of varied terms and conditions on the existing one would help towards the stated goal of simplifying the ticketing system


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on January 22, 2020, 09:05:25 am
Wondering if this applies to reservists, or in my case ex-reservists? (16 years served)

Can't see it mentioned, but would be taking this up if it does for sure :-)


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: ChrisB on January 22, 2020, 10:04:52 am
A national railcard, available to all, with additional discount for some, is an even better idea.

Pointless - cutting fares by a third would achieve your suggestion

Not pointless. A railcard becomes a loyalty card offering better fares to people who buy in - would have some 'ownership'.  Loyal customers, people who have purchase the card, will be more inclined to use rail where they have a choice.

It's not "cutting rail fares by a third" as the majority of people (around 70%?) can already qualify for a railcard or none-railcard discount from the full advertised price.

The vast majority (all?) railcards offer 1/3 off fares. If a railcard was available to everyone, a 1/3 cut across all fares does achieve the same 'discount' available to this railcard. Making people stump up to pay for it surely dissuades people from obtaining it? If you want to encourage people to use rail, an across the board cut in fares by 1/3 will do far more for this aim that asking people to buy a railcard, surely?

Quote
A single national railcard, perhaps with limited variation, to replace the plethora of varied terms and conditions on the existing one would help towards the stated goal of simplifying the ticketing system

Yes, agree there - but I think my suggestion above works far better - but will the capacity available be able to cope? I doubt it, but that's a different argument.


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: grahame on January 22, 2020, 04:55:54 pm
More snippets from Forces Network (https://www.forces.net/military-life/veterans/uk-veterans-railcards-all-gen)

Quote
It is expected that the holders of the new veterans railcard will be able to use it at any time, peak or off-peak.

However, during peak times, as with existing railcards, a minimum fare of £12 would apply.

At the moment, there are only plans for discounted rail travel across England but the Government hopes to roll out a similar discount across Scotland and Wales.

Quote
The new railcard is likely to include similar standard terms and conditions as existing railcards but the veterans railcard is expected to also offer discounts to any spouse of family member so long as they are travelling with the card holder.

Quote
The new card offering discounted rail fare is the first step in the Government’s plans to do more to support those who have served their country and comes after the Government created a new Office of Veterans’ Affairs (OVA).

It is hoped the new railcard will help boost veterans’ job prospects and strengthen family bonds through cheaper travel.


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 22, 2020, 05:24:25 pm
The vast majority (all?) railcards offer 1/3 off fares. If a railcard was available to everyone, a 1/3 cut across all fares does achieve the same 'discount' available to this railcard. Making people stump up to pay for it surely dissuades people from obtaining it? If you want to encourage people to use rail, an across the board cut in fares by 1/3 will do far more for this aim that asking people to buy a railcard, surely?

You could, for example, have a national railcard at £30 per year which gave, say, a 15% or 20% discount (perhaps 34% on the current Network Card area) that was available to all.  You could then have the same 34% discount available for all those current special customers who can currently buy a railcard, such as Seniors, Young Persons, Disabled, Forces, etc etc. etc. (and I'd add registered unemployed to that list).

So, any regular or semi-regular passengers can benefit from a 'loyalty' discount but certain specialist groups get more of a discount.


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: grahame on January 22, 2020, 05:41:45 pm
I forget who it is who always asks "ooze gonna pay for it" .. but if you simply cut rail fares by a third and had (say) 5 million railcard holders no longer buying cards, you're going to be £150,000,000 down. As well as loosing the loyalty element of people wanting to "get the best value from my card" ...

Back of fag packet calculation - railcard sales perhaps account for 10p per ticketed journey (that's the fee for purchase of the railcard) .


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 22, 2020, 05:58:07 pm
I forget who it is who always asks "ooze gonna pay for it" ..

…………...I think Chris B may be able to help you with that one!  :D



Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: bignosemac on January 22, 2020, 08:19:53 pm
(and I'd add registered unemployed to that list)

They already have a railcard available to them. The Jobcentre Plus Travel Discount Card. Gives 50% off most Standard Class fares. Available to those unemployed for 3 months, claiming either Jobseekers Allowance, Universal Credit, or Employment & Support Allowance, and engaged with a Jobcentre advisor. No cost to the claimant for the card.


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 22, 2020, 09:20:33 pm
(and I'd add registered unemployed to that list)

They already have a railcard available to them. The Jobcentre Plus Travel Discount Card. Gives 50% off most Standard Class fares. Available to those unemployed for 3 months, claiming either Jobseekers Allowance, Universal Credit, or Employment & Support Allowance, and engaged with a Jobcentre advisor. No cost to the claimant for the card.

And that's a better solution, otherwise if you issue a card what's to stop the individual carrying on using it once they're back in work?


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: brcw2 on January 23, 2020, 10:07:23 am
You could, for example, have a national railcard at £30 per year which gave, say, a 15% or 20% discount (perhaps 34% on the current Network Card area) that was available to all.  You could then have the same 34% discount available for all those current special customers who can currently buy a railcard, such as Seniors, Young Persons, Disabled, Forces, etc etc. etc. (and I'd add registered unemployed to that list).

So, any regular or semi-regular passengers can benefit from a 'loyalty' discount but certain specialist groups get more of a discount.

Other countries (e.g. Switzerland, Germany) appear to be able to cope with the idea of railcards available to all - at differing levels of discount in both of those places (e.g. it looks like Germany offers 25%, 50% or 100%).  There are sums to be done to make sure that it's revenue-neutral (or, ideally, gathers extra revenue) but it's possible to do so. 

No doubt if were introduced here, it would have so many restrictions and easements applied that the rules would be almost completely incomprehensible...


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: stuving on January 23, 2020, 12:26:24 pm
You could, for example, have a national railcard at £30 per year which gave, say, a 15% or 20% discount (perhaps 34% on the current Network Card area) that was available to all.  You could then have the same 34% discount available for all those current special customers who can currently buy a railcard, such as Seniors, Young Persons, Disabled, Forces, etc etc. etc. (and I'd add registered unemployed to that list).

So, any regular or semi-regular passengers can benefit from a 'loyalty' discount but certain specialist groups get more of a discount.

Other countries (e.g. Switzerland, Germany) appear to be able to cope with the idea of railcards available to all - at differing levels of discount in both of those places (e.g. it looks like Germany offers 25%, 50% or 100%).  There are sums to be done to make sure that it's revenue-neutral (or, ideally, gathers extra revenue) but it's possible to do so. 

No doubt if were introduced here, it would have so many restrictions and easements applied that the rules would be almost completely incomprehensible...

There's a detailed explanation of DB's BahnCards here (https://www.bahn.com/en/view/offers/bahncard/bahncard.shtml?dbkanal_007=L04_S02_D002_KIN0060_ST-BAHNCARD_LZ01) - obviously the price  varies a lot depending on the discount, duration, and whether there are other restrictions. For 100% off everything it's €3,952 a year (or €6,685 in 1st class).

Bear in mind too that if fares are reduced by a large subsidy, paid by everyone whether they use railways or not, that's rather like a compulsory discount card for all - so any voluntary one on top would cost less as a result.


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: Oxonhutch on January 23, 2020, 01:31:35 pm
For 100% off everything it's €3,952 a year (or €6,685 in 1st class).

Jeepers, their all-line annual rover is cheaper than my annual season ticket for an 80 km journey


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: grahame on October 14, 2020, 01:49:16 pm
From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/10/captain-sir-tom-moore-receives-first-veterans-railcard.html)

Quote
Captain Sir Tom Moore has been presented with the very first Veterans Railcard by Transport Secretary Grant Shapps.

The new Veterans Railcard which was announced earlier this year, will be available to an estimated 830,000 veterans from the 5th of November 2020. At an introductory price of just ?21 until the 31st March 2021, the railcard will enable the holder to get up to a third off rail travel.

The card will also provide discounted travel for adult companions and children. The colours of the new railcard have been chosen to pay tribute to the Royal Navy, RAF and Army.

Sir Tom Moore would have been able to get a senior railcard anyway - what is the advantage for him in the veteran's card?   Can it (for example) get season ticket discounts or be compounded with Groupsaves?  Can it be used on buses at times the ENCTS cards can't?  Does it come without the Network South East restrictions that apply in the morning peak on senior cards?


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: paul7755 on October 14, 2020, 03:43:38 pm
Perhaps railcards could be additive?  ;D 

Buy three get 99% off...


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 14, 2020, 04:32:59 pm
From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/10/captain-sir-tom-moore-receives-first-veterans-railcard.html)

Quote
Captain Sir Tom Moore has been presented with the very first Veterans Railcard by Transport Secretary Grant Shapps.

The new Veterans Railcard which was announced earlier this year, will be available to an estimated 830,000 veterans from the 5th of November 2020. At an introductory price of just ?21 until the 31st March 2021, the railcard will enable the holder to get up to a third off rail travel.

The card will also provide discounted travel for adult companions and children. The colours of the new railcard have been chosen to pay tribute to the Royal Navy, RAF and Army.

Sir Tom Moore would have been able to get a senior railcard anyway - what is the advantage for him in the veteran's card?   Can it (for example) get season ticket discounts or be compounded with Groupsaves?  Can it be used on buses at times the ENCTS cards can't?  Does it come without the Network South East restrictions that apply in the morning peak on senior cards?

I suspect it's for publicity purposes?


Title: Re: Veterans railcard for cheaper train fares to launch on Armistice Day
Post by: RailCornwall on October 16, 2020, 04:50:22 pm
Incredibly 'loose' validity Criteria, one day's service, so a teenager signing up and then getting a discharge is eligible to buy the card for the rest of their life.



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