Great Western Coffee Shop

looks like the end for FlyBe then?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51746564

website down too.

We’re sorry to hear about the collapse of  @flybe. We’d like to help those affected by allowing them free travel today on any @firstgroupplc train, by producing evidence of their Flybe booking. This includes  @GWRHelp, @AvantiWestCoast, @SW_Railway & @Hull_Trains. #Flybecollapse

Replying to @PaulCliftonBBC Hi Paul, it's devastating for its passengers and staff. We're already speaking to other airlines about taking on its routes. Our advice to passengers due to travel with Flybe is not to travel to the airport and to visit the CAA’s website for advice http://www.caa.co.uk/news

Flybe, which operated regional services from airports across the United Kingdom, has entered administration.

All Flybe flights, and those operated by Stobart Air, are cancelled. Therefore, please do not go to the airport as your flight will not be operating.

Flybe customers are therefore urged to make their own alternative travel arrangements via other airlines, rail or coach operators.

For flights operated by Flybe franchise partners (Eastern Airways, and Blue Islands) passengers should make contact with that airline to confirm your travel arrangements.

The UK Civil Aviation Authority will provide advice and information to consumers, so please check our website and Twitter feed @UK_CAA for more information.

Commenting, Richard Moriarty Chief Executive at the UK Civil Aviation Authority, said: “This is a sad day for UK aviation and we know that Flybe's decision to stop trading will be very distressing for all of its employees and customers.

“We urge passengers planning to fly with this airline not to go to the airport as all Flybe flights are cancelled.  For the latest advice, Flybe customers should visit the CAA website or the CAA's Twitter feed for more information.

“Flybe also operated a number of codeshare partnerships with international airlines.  If you have an international ticket you should make contact with that airline to confirm your travel arrangements.”

Booked flight with credit or debit card

If you booked directly with Flybe and paid by credit card you may be protected under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and should contact your card issuer for further information.  Similarly, if you paid by debit or charge card you should contact your card issuer for advice as you may be able to make a claim under their charge back rules.

If you purchased travel insurance that includes cover for scheduled airline failure, known as SAFI, you should contact your insurer. If you did not book directly with Flybe and purchased your tickets through a third party, you should contact your booking or travel agent in the first instance.

Negative response letter

Passengers who booked directly with the company via either a credit, charge or debit card may alternatively be able to make a claim through their card provider. Some card providers will ask for a negative response letter confirming the position. Passengers may also be able to make a claim against their travel insurer.  (This letter will be published on this page shortly) 

Direct booking with an airline

If you paid the airline directly by credit card you might be protected by Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You should check with your card issuer for further advice. You may have similar cover if you paid by Visa debit card and should check with your bank.

Booked through an Airline Ticket Agent

If you booked your ticket through an airline ticket agent you should speak to the agent in the first instance; they may have provided travel insurance that includes Scheduled Airline Failure cover.

Scheduled Airline Failure Insurance (SAFI)

Some airlines and airline ticket agents will offer customers either a specific Scheduled Airline Failure Insurance (SAFI) policy or include similar protection within a broader travel insurance product. The type of protection provided may vary depending on the type of policy taken out. A policy may simply cover the cost of the original tickets purchased or any unused portion, or the additional cost of purchasing new flights, such as new tickets for travel back to the UK.

Booked with an ATOL holder (Package Holiday)

If you have booked a trip that includes flights and hotels with a travel firm that holds an ATOL (Air Travel Organiser's Licence) and received confirmation that you are ATOL protected, the travel firm is responsible for your flight arrangements and must either make alternative flights available for you so that your trip can continue or provide a full refund. If you are abroad, it should make arrangements to bring you home at the end of your trip. Contact the ATOL travel firm for more information.

Notes to editors

The Civil Aviation Authority believes that very few Flybe passengers are ATOL protected and those people should make arrangements through their travel agent, who are responsible for providing alternative arrangements. The government has not commissioned the CAA to organise any repatriation flights as there is capacity in the market for people to travel via alternative airlines, rail and coach operations.

Wrong airline!  It is FlyBMI that has gone into Administration

Excellent offer of free travel for Flybe ticket holders from First Group TOCs.

https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1235483794335031296?s=19

EDIT: Ah, I see grahame quoted a similar tweet. As you were.

Right second time.

This thread is a mess!  FlyBMI and now FlyBE ... I will see if I can tidy up subject lines!

I might have just done that while you were posting, grahame!

Departures & arrivals
Arrival and departure information is currently unavailable

Why is it that information system break down when you most need them?

https://www.southamptonairport.com/departures-arrivals/ :

Why is it that information system break down when you most need them?

I think the graph from the BBC article (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51749882) might give a good indication of why. 90% of all flights out of Southampton are affected.

Back up and running, with a message about FlyBe not operating any more. There are no other flights to show. Southampton council was in the process of planning an extension to the runway to enable bigger airlines to operate, as EasyJet have said they want to start services from there. That has been put on hold, and there aren't many other operators of turboprop aircraft who could take over from Flybe.

Looks like Loganair are stepping in starting next week, at least for Edinburgh, Glasgow, Newcastle and maybe a couple more.  I wonder if they’ll use ex-FlyBe aeroplanes?

All routes that I used when I was still working, because you could basically get almost a full working day in and avoid a hotel stay.

Paul

Posted by: broadgage
Insert Quote
Whilst I am sorry for those thrown out of work, and those whose travel plans have been disrupted, taking the wider view the failure of another airline is good news for the environment.
If we are serious about the climate emergency, we need to fly less and not more. Air travel is very carbon intensive and likely to remain so.

Hopefully some people will now fly less, making use of rail instead, or even staying in one place.

Some of the routes formerly operated by Flybe will presumably be taken over by competitors, but others may close permanently. Those who flew infrequently may have to accept the extra time taken by rail.
Those who flew frequently might have to review their location and business affairs so as to reduce the need for such frequent long distance travel.

The rail line from Newquay to Par isn't much of an improvement over using a horse and cart. Flybe's Dash aircraft were amongst the most environmentally friendly aircraft out there.

It is the speed of services generally to Cornwall that is therefore the issue not the Newquay branch.

....and that is why the replacement of Flybe on the PSO Newquay to London route needs to get sorted PDQ, with government assistance if possible. Anything beyond Exeter (or Plymouth at a stretch) is not doable for a day trip by rail from London and the Thames Valley.

Posted by: broadgage
Insert Quote

I really can't make up my mind whether Broadgage lives in the past or the future, but it's some kind of utopian dreamworld, whatever it is.

Hopefully some people will now fly less, making use of rail instead, or even staying in one place.

Some of the routes formerly operated by Flybe will presumably be taken over by competitors, but others may close permanently. Those who flew infrequently may have to accept the extra time taken by rail.
Those who flew frequently might have to review their location and business affairs so as to reduce the need for such frequent long distance travel.

...I'm fairly sure that all or nearly all of Flybe's aircraft are leased, so the lessors will re-possess and then try to re-market them. They may in time find their way to other operators (anywhere globally) but those operators will need to have pilots type-rated to fly them, and I would be fairly sure that an operator like Loganair (which operates different types) won't have many, if any, that are rated to fly Flybe's Q400's, for example.

....and that is why the replacement of Flybe on the PSO Newquay to London route needs to get sorted PDQ, with government assistance if possible. Anything beyond Exeter (or Plymouth at a stretch) is not doable for a day trip by rail from London and the Thames Valley.

Not quite true.  Depends what you consider as doable.....

London Paddington d0637  Penzance a1141
Penzance d1745  London Paddington a2356

Penzance d0458  London Paddington a1000
London Paddington d1804  (FO d1904) Penzance a2307 (FO a0034)

Lots of alternatives (mostly hourly throughout the day) and lots of intermediate places not served by direct flights.

Just out of interest what would be the comparable times from Central London to Penzance by flying?

At a walk-up cost of £294.20 - or, if you are lucky enough to qualify for a railcard that is valid in the early morning, £194.85 (OK, slightly cheaper if you purchase two singles)!

Not quite true.  Depends what you consider as doable.....

London Paddington d0637  Penzance a1141
Penzance d1745  London Paddington a2356

Loganair have said that their intention to takeover (some of) the former Flybe routes serving Glasgow, Edinburgh & Newcastle will require the recruitment of around 100 additional staff and preference will be given to (suitably qualified) ex-Flybe people. I guess that implies they wouldn't be averse to leasing a small number of the mothballed Q400's unless they are prepared to retrain pilots & cabin crew which would presumably delay reinstatement of the specified services.

It would be very good for our local economy if Flybe Aviation Services, which was registered as a separate entity some time ago and is still in business, could continue as the UK Q400 engineering base.

London Paddington d0637  Penzance a1141
Penzance d1745  London Paddington a2356

Penzance d0458  London Paddington a1000
London Paddington d1804  (FO d1904) Penzance a2307 (FO a0034)

... For pure jets, they have 4 Embraer ERJ-135 and 13 ERJ-135 aircraft, with a common rating. ...

I think that should read: "For pure jets, they have 4 Embraer ERJ-135 and 13 ERJ-145 aircraft, with a common rating." (Some of the later comments need that for their sense.)

There were many Cornish folks on social media yesterday (look at Newquay Airport's Facebook page, as an example) decrying the loss of the London airlink and the business and personal impacts, so I stand by my hope that it is resurrected asap.

The Flybe fleet (https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Flybe), or more accurately the former Flybe fleet, had a few owned aircraft, mainly the Q400s, but mainly leased. I am not sure of the exact split so base this on a small random sample in G-INFO (https://siteapps.caa.co.uk/g-info/), the CAA's registration portal.

As for type ratings, there are unfortunately no common ratings between Flybe and Loganair. Flybe's turboprop aircraft were all DHC Dash-8 400 (Q400 in common parlance), needing the EASA DHC8 type rating. Loganair use four different turbo prop types: one ATR 42 and three ATR 72s, with a common rating to cover both, 14 Saab 340s, and 2 Saab 2000s, each of which has its own rating. For pure jets, they have 4 Embraer ERJ-135 and 13 ERJ-145 aircraft, with a common rating. Flybe had 9 ERJ-175 and a single ERJ-195, both of which can be flown with the EMB170 rating.

Commercial pilots can only be current on one type, so even though a Flybe pilot may have flown ERJ-145s before the airline changed, they can't just walk into them again. The reason for this rule is to avoid confusion. The primary flight controls are the same, much of the layout of the secondary controls will be very similar, but there are critical differences in weights and airspeeds especially. They are, however, in the same class of aircraft, being either twin engine jet or twin engine turboprop. Conversion to a new type of the same class won't take long, and could involve as little as a few days in a simulator. A period of flying with a supervising pilot will follow - they are all pilot and co-pilot anyway.

Looking at the difference in the fleets may give a pointer as to why it all went wrong. In every case, Flybe have the larger aircraft. That is a good thing if they are full, much less so if not, and a couple of empty seats can be the difference between profit and loss for a flight. Loganair seems to have adopted a more cautious approach.

Interesting stuff, and presumably much of the Loganair fleet is tailored to specific ‘island hopping’ routes around the Scottish islands etc.  If it was a TOC I’m sure people would be mentioning the number of microfleets...  :)

Paul

The choice of Brazilian Embraer ERJ-145 aircraft is interesting.

I'm fairly sure that all or nearly all of Flybe's aircraft are leased, so the lessors will re-possess and then try to re-market them.

Turboprops have just as nice interiors as jets, but fly lower, typically 25,000 feet or so

Talk on aviation forums already suggesting that about 15 of Flybe's parked Q400's are about to be snapped up, following a statement from the leasing company that owns them yesterday.

Lots of speculation as to who this might be - possibly Stobart Air for operations out of Belfast City and Southampton? (15 is about the no. that Flybe had based at those 2 airports). There would of course be a ready supply of rated based pilots to fly them out of those locations.

Does this mean we’ll see the aviation equivalent of “livery froth” before long?

I would hazard a guess and say that most of  Loganair's 145s are "hand me downs" from BA when BA pulled out of a lot of UK domestic routes, many of which were actually operated by  Loganair in BA livery.

The Q400 is capable of flight at higher levels, but my understanding is that the FL250 restriction is in place by regulatory authorities as it doesn't have drop-down oxygen for passengers  (if the pressurisation goes at FL250, you have less airspace to dive through to get to levels where oxygen is sufficient than if you were higher).

The ones that drop down in emergencies (or system failure more often) are fed from a chemical reaction, and cost several hundred pounds each. The reaction is exothermic, and fires have happened when they have malfunctioned.

3 hrs to Plymouth is not doable in a day return to/from London? I suspect the stats would show quite a lot of such journeys are undertaken.

Interesting ! From yesterday's Telegraph Business & Money section:

https://postimg.cc/G95ZSjwQ

The Q400 is capable of flight at higher levels, but my understanding is that the FL250 restriction is in place by regulatory authorities as it doesn't have drop-down oxygen for passengers  (if the pressurisation goes at FL250, you have less airspace to dive through to get to levels where oxygen is sufficient than if you were higher).

Given that more Q400 operators don't need to go above FL250 as the flights are too short, hardly any if any airlines have taken it up.

Flybe didn't and were restricted to FL250, but some of their sectors were definitely not short (for a turboprop), eg, the likes of Southampton-Alicante at about 2hrs 45min. Saying that, due to the speed of the Q400, even these sectors were only about 15-20mins longer than they would be in a pure jet.

Out of interest, very few of the ex-Flybe aircraft have moved since the Company folded at the beginning of March. For example, I believe the 6 Q400's that landed at Southampton on that final evening are still there (although they are having engine runs on I think a weekly basis). One of the few that has moved was the one that ended-up at Heathrow that night, it was ferried to Exeter on 3rd April. Only a few others of their approx. 65 aircraft fleet have moved since.

That's not true

The commercial reality is (I suspect) that the unfortunate bank or leasing company that owns them can negotiate a better deal with Southampton airport to keep these planes that are now without a leasing customer than paying for storage elsewhere in what must be the most difficult market for them for many years

Yes, the Training Academy has been sold into the Public Sector, but reportedly for a fraction of what it cost Flybe to build it.

Don't forget the building cost included fitting out the engineering workshop and setting up two flight simulators, DCC have only bought the shell of the building. The government also provided funding for the training academy which is why Flybe never sold it as originally planned, as they would have to pay that government money back.

Simulator time will be in demand, as pilots need to stay current.

Chat on aviation forums suggests that both the Q400 and Embraer sims are now with Flight Safety International, the Q400 at Farnborough. The Embraer one was apparently dismantled and moved within a few days of the airline going into administration.

A Flybe plane has been outside the arrivals/departures on the tarmac at Newquay since the evening of failure. It hasn’t moved

Newquay airport reporting a new operator will resume flights to Heathrow under the public service obligation in September, only once a day; but in the interim BA flights to Heathrow will resume in July with it's limited service.
Eastern Airways will commence three flights a week to Teeside.
Logan Air? will commence it's Scottish flights, plus those to Newcastle, Norwich, Leeds.

An investigation has been launched after a collision between two planes on the tarmac at Aberdeen International Airport.
The nose of one of the aircraft ended up wedged under the engine of the other on Tuesday evening, lifting it off the ground.
No passengers were on board the Loganair jet, which was struck by the former Flybe plane.
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) has been informed.

Skills fade in ground handling?  :o

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53076806

I wonder if it was being towed, taxying under its own power, or someone didn't check the parking brake.

Newquay airport reporting a new operator will resume flights to Heathrow under the public service obligation in September, only once a day; but in the interim BA flights to Heathrow will resume in July with it's limited service.
Eastern Airways will commence three flights a week to Teeside.
Logan Air? will commence it's Scottish flights, plus those to Newcastle, Norwich, Leeds.

Was being taxied apparently, after a few months parked-up.

Chat on aviation fora from people who know the Q400 is that this was probably a brake pressure accumulator issue. There is apparently a manual way to pump to create the pressure (a handle in one of the landing gear wells) but speculation is that this wasn't done.

I'm sure Loganair, who are starting to ramp up operations at the moment, could've well done without this.

It was parked up preparing for engine start. Chocks all removed and presumably the accumulator lost pressure. Although why nobody tried to use the tiller or rudder pedals is beyond me.

When it sort-of-nearly happened to me, it was because I had my head down with the checklist, going through the controls and dials, blissfully unaware that I was trundling majestically towards an expensive police helicopter until the instructor in the right-hand seat said "You might want to look out of the window...". Nosewheel steering on a Q400 is hydraulically powered, so maybe the horn wasn't working.

It's hydraulically powered but can still work, basically like a car when power steering goes.

https://www.flybe.com/en
On 28 January 2023, the High Court appointed David Pike and Mike Pink as Joint Administrators of Flybe Limited (“Flybe”).

Flybe has now ceased trading and all flights from and to the UK operated by Flybe have been cancelled and will not be rescheduled.

If you are a passenger affected by this event, please read the advice below.

(Continues)

The AAIB report is going to be interesting.

Summary:
G-JECK was to be flown from Aberdeen Airport to Weeze Airport, Germany. The aircraft had been in storage at Aberdeen since March 2020 and was parked on a self-manoeuvring stand which had a 1° slope. During the pre-departure checks, the chocks were removed from both the mainwheels and the nosewheels. The hydraulic pressure in the park brake system subsequently reduced to the point where the brakes could no longer prevent G JECK from moving, and the aircraft rolled across a taxiway before colliding with G-SAJS, which was parked on an adjacent stand. There were no injuries