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Journey by Journey => Plymouth and Cornwall => Topic started by: grahame on March 14, 2020, 12:03:16



Title: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: grahame on March 14, 2020, 12:03:16
The branch line from Liskeard to Looe was perhaps the most unlikely survivor of the "Beeching Axe" in the 1960s.  It survived by the narrowest of squeaks, being reprieved just a fortnight before it was due to shut by Secretary of State for Transport Barbara Castle. She cited the inadequacy of of local roads to cope with holiday makers in the summer peaks, and the huge expense that would have been involved to improve them for that traffic.  And so the Looe branch survives in what almost feels like a time capsule - "lost in time".  Some things are not lost in time though - I took a trip on the branch last Thursday, and even off season (mid March) many of the trains are no longer "carrying fresh air" - a good number of passengers about, and that on a service that has been increased in recent years to run once an hour.  No longer just a survivor - but now a health line with passenger numbers that would make some others cry, and a quirky survivor.

Heading south from Liskeard to Looe?  You join the Looe trains at "Platform 3" - slightly away from the main line platforms on the north side, and pointed in a north easterly direction.  And as the train starts its journey, it turns right, and right again and again, and descends into a valley in which it passes under the main line railway you probably used to arrive in Liskeard.   You're now headed south, but not for long as the train turns right, right, and right again still descending into a deeper valley.  Another single track line comes in alongside on your - its come along the valley floor - and you join that line and pull up, facing north again.

The driver walks through the train, and then you move again - though this time in the opposite direction and onto the line that joined from the valley.  One further stop, just clear of the junction points, and a minute later we're headed off towards Looe.  It may be "none-stop" or we may call at St Keyne Wishing Well, and/or Causeland, and/or Sandplace.  It will never really be none-stop, for there's a level crossing along the way where all trains must stop and blow their horns before proceeding.

And so the wooded valley with the rushing stream widens out, into an estuary with - if the tide is right - mudflat teaming with waders. The waterway widens, habitation and indeed a town appear on the hillside opposite, the trains slows down and pulls to a halt and we're in Looe - or rather on its north flank - at a tiny station that just holds our two carriages.

Our trainload pile off, another load pile on, and within 5 minutes the train is headed back whence it came - or almost. On this particular journey, once we got clear of the junction points, the driver did not walk through the train.  Rather, after a brief pause to pick up his crew member he carried on a few hundred yards to the remote station of Coombe Junction Halt, where I left the train; the train departed a couple of minutes later, headed south again but to turn left, left and left, to climb and turn left and left again and climb some more back to its platform at Liskeard. I was left looking ahead at rusty rails, a little road bridge quite close by and a high railway viaduct a little further away, where e the rusty tracks pass under up to the cement works at Moorswater, and original station for Liskeard on this railway - which use to carry on up to the moors to the stone quarries, but that section was lost many generations ago.

And so, my personal trip ended with a walk back up the hill to Liskeard Station - about 20 minutes along a lane that lead into the suburbs and to the station, with a "Steep Hill - 16%" sign.  And I could certainly see and feel the hill - final proof (not that I needed it) of just how much the Looe line drops away in the first part of its run.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/loob_20200312_01.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/loob_20200312_02.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/loob_20200312_03.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/loob_20200312_04.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/loob_20200312_05.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/loob_20200312_06.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/loob_20200312_07.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/loob_20200312_08.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/loob_20200312_09.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/loob_20200312_10.jpg)


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: smokey on March 14, 2020, 12:24:47
Did you notice that opposite the platform at Looe stands the 1/4 mile post, in days past the platform was much longer, and on arrival at Looe after passengers had de-trained the stock was pulled forward and the engine ran round where the Petrol station now stands before pulling back into Looe station.  Strange for a short branch with a reversal why did they NEVER use engine and Auto coach on this line.

Rumour has it that Barbara Castle whom stood up in parliament in 1964 and reprieved both the St Ives and Looe lines in the very same speech, had holiday homes in Looe and St Ives. Shame the lady didn't have a holiday home in Padstow as the Bodmin Road to Padstow line was condemned in the same speech.  >:(


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 14, 2020, 12:29:25
I don't think the rails to Moorswater are that rusty, Grahame.  The Moorswater cement train, from Aberthaw in South Wales, runs at least once or twice a week.

....and I won't ask how you managed to take the photo from the train whilst stood at Coombe Junction No.1 Ground Frame....


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: smokey on March 14, 2020, 13:09:19
guess it was a hand holding a camera in the open window ;D


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 14, 2020, 14:42:34
Coombe Junction once used to have a signalbox and run-around loop: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwf/S1141.htm

...and Looe had a signalbox (actually a very small hut) as well: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwf/S1143.htm

...and Liskeard branch platform had its own signalbox: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwf/S1140.htm

At one time there was also a signalbox at Moorswater, but that was a very long, long, long time ago.


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: JontyMort on March 14, 2020, 15:06:46
Presumably the link to the main line is normally locked, and the branch run as “one engine in steam”?

Edited by SandTEngineer to remove duplicate copy of previous post diagram links


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 14, 2020, 20:44:58
[Presumably the link to the main line is normally locked, and the branch run as “one engine in steam”?

The branch is worked by Key Token between Liskeard Signalbox and Coombe No.2 Ground Frame (working the trap points leading from the Moorswater cement terminal, seen in one of Grahames photographs).  There are Intermediate Key Token instruments at Liskeard Branch Ground Frame and Coombe No.1 Ground Frame with Train Staff working from the latter to Looe.  That arrangement allows a freight service to access from Liskeard to Moorswater whilst the passenger service train is on the branch from Coombe Junction to Looe.


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: JontyMort on March 14, 2020, 22:58:47
[Presumably the link to the main line is normally locked, and the branch run as “one engine in steam”?

The branch is worked by Key Token between Liskeard Signalbox and Coombe No.2 Ground Frame (working the trap points leading from the Moorswater cement terminal, seen in one of Grahames photographs).  There are Intermediate Key Token instruments at Liskeard Branch Ground Frame and Coombe No.1 Ground Frame with Train Staff working from the latter to Looe.  That arrangement allows a freight service to access from Liskeard to Moorswater whilst the passenger service train is on the branch from Coombe Junction to Looe.

Ah, yes, that makes sense.


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: grahame on March 15, 2020, 05:52:12
I don't think the rails to Moorswater are that rusty, Grahame.  The Moorswater cement train, from Aberthaw in South Wales, runs at least once or twice a week.

I have check Real Time Trains; it ran the day previous to my visit.

Prior experience (I do funny thinks like look at rail tops in various places) would suggest that it takes sustained traffic to have shiny rails, then they go through various degrees of dull moving across to bright orange and then from bright orange to a much duller brown for something really out of use.   Sorry - no detailed look at the track in question but, whilst rusty, it did not scream "unused" to me.

[Presumably the link to the main line is normally locked, and the branch run as “one engine in steam”?

The branch is worked by Key Token between Liskeard Signalbox and Coombe No.2 Ground Frame (working the trap points leading from the Moorswater cement terminal, seen in one of Grahames photographs).  There are Intermediate Key Token instruments at Liskeard Branch Ground Frame and Coombe No.1 Ground Frame with Train Staff working from the latter to Looe.  That arrangement allows a freight service to access from Liskeard to Moorswater whilst the passenger service train is on the branch from Coombe Junction to Looe.

Not sure the main instrument is in the signal box - there's a hut on platform 3:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/lsk3hut.jpg)

Where our driver went in and seemed to be working an instrument and on the phone - I suspect he took in a token and the points key, returned the token and got out a new one (or the same one again having put it through the machine?).  Came out and waved it to show the train manager.


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: stuving on March 15, 2020, 08:43:17
Not sure the main instrument is in the signal box - there's a hut on platform 3:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/lsk3hut.jpg)

But that's only a token hut!


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 15, 2020, 10:49:49
OK this is going to get a bit technical now.  There are two types of Key Token Instrument (originally manufactured by TYERS), an TERMINAL INSTRUMENT and an INTERMEDIATE INSTRUMENT.  The Terminal Instrument is normally located in a manned signalbox at each end of the single line section, in this case Liskeard signalbox.

An Intermediate Instrument is normally located at places that require access to the single line that are usually operated by Train Crew operated Ground Lever Frames, mechanically released by the single line section key token.  On the Looe branch these are located on Liskeard Platform No.3, in the hut shown in Grahames photograph, Coombe Junction No.1 Ground Frame that controls the points giving access to Looe, and Coombe Junction No.2 Ground Frame controlling the trap points giving access to the Moorswater Cement Sidings. 

To release a token from a Terminal Instrument requires the Terminal Instrument at the remote end to be operated thus giving a release at the opposite remote end.  To release a token from an Intermediate Instrument requires both Terminal Instruments to be be operated together.  But hang on, there is no signalbox at the Coombe Junction end of the section, so no signaller available to operate the Terminal Instrument there. Well, there is a special electrical circuit that replicates the actions of a signaller that is operated from the remote, Liskeard end, of the section.  The circuits are really quite staightforward and the system is fail safe in that only one key token can be free in the section at any one time.

So, to sum that all up, the Single line section in this case is supervised and controlled by the Liskeard signaller.



Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: RichardB on March 15, 2020, 18:27:20
Here's more on the reprieve.  Barbara Castle made the announcement on 20 September 1966 with the three Cornish lines part of 29 decisions in all.  I attached a scan of p1 and p2 of the MoT press release (from the National Archives).  At the bottom of page 1, you'll see why she reprieved Looe and St Ives -

"“Several of my decisions affect holiday areas.  I have refused to close the branch lines serving St Ives and Looe in Cornwall.  In spite of the financial saving to the railways, it just wouldn’t have made sense in the wider context to have transferred heavy holiday traffic on to roads which couldn’t cope with it.  Nor would extensive and expensive road improvements have been the answer.  At St Ives, these would have involved destroying the whole character of the town.  At Looe, they could not have avoided long delays in the holiday season.  It would be the economics of Bedlam to spend vast sums only to create greater inconvenience.”

Padstow went because the view was taken that the roads and buses could cope.  It was as simple as that. 

I've also attached the report of the decisions from the following day's Western Morning News.  You'll recognise the name of the reporter.


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: infoman on March 15, 2020, 19:22:26
Country file are covering Looe on BBC1 on Sunday,still waiting if their gonna pay a visit to the train station.


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: grahame on March 16, 2020, 04:54:59
[snip]

Padstow went because the view was taken that the roads and buses could cope.  It was as simple as that. 

I've also attached the report of the decisions from the following day's Western Morning News.  You'll recognise the name of the reporter.

Interesting to note that it was the Summer Saturday crowds issues that saved Newquay - from that newspaper article

Quote
Certainly, if it is considered that buses would have difficulty in coping with peak week-end traffic at St. Ives, the same would surely be true at Newquay, where even this summer lengthy trains have disgorged hundreds of people together.

Also interested to read comment about removing the reversal at Coombe:

Quote
Consideration might be given to abolishing the reversal at Coombe Junction on the Looe line by providing a direct line from Liskeard towards Looe; it is pity that the Ministry of Transport does not give grants for this kind of scheme so enable lines to be run more cheaply.


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 16, 2020, 11:46:46
There are some wonderful photographs of Coombe Junction as it used to be here: http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/looe-branch-including-moorswater.html


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: Andy on March 27, 2020, 08:42:35
[snip]

Padstow went because the view was taken that the roads and buses could cope.  It was as simple as that. 

I've also attached the report of the decisions from the following day's Western Morning News.  You'll recognise the name of the reporter.

Interesting to note that it was the Summer Saturday crowds issues that saved Newquay - from that newspaper article

Quote
Certainly, if it is considered that buses would have difficulty in coping with peak week-end traffic at St. Ives, the same would surely be true at Newquay, where even this summer lengthy trains have disgorged hundreds of people together.

Also interested to read comment about removing the reversal at Coombe:

Quote
Consideration might be given to abolishing the reversal at Coombe Junction on the Looe line by providing a direct line from Liskeard towards Looe; it is pity that the Ministry of Transport does not give grants for this kind of scheme so enable lines to be run more cheaply.

I believe the GWR had plans to build a branch from St. Germans to Looe in the mid 1930s but the outbreak of WW II put an end to the idea.


Title: Re: Journey to Looe and almost all the way back
Post by: grahame on March 27, 2020, 09:14:09
I believe the GWR had plans to build a branch from St. Germans to Looe in the mid 1930s but the outbreak of WW II put an end to the idea.

See https://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/StGermansLooe.html - more text, pictures, map, etc

Quote
... the Great Western Railway in 1935 projected a new 7-mile branch from Trerule Junction, just west of St. Germans on the Paddington to Penzance main line, to Looe. The line would have involved some quite heavy engineering works including ... [snip] ...Work commenced on the line 1937 but was suspended owing to World War II and never completed.



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