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Looks like virtually every train.  No reason given - no "more trains than usual requiring repair".  I find myself wondering if the class 143 pacers have been parked, and if so whether they'll ever run in passenger service again.

Depends if the Torbay (now called The English Riviera Airshow) takes place 6-7 June. Four coaches would be an improvement on last years Saturday service and the show was washed out on the Sunday

No, I doubt we have seen the last of the Pacers.  Only 2 coaches needed on local trains at the moment but when things return to normal, 4 coaches will again be necessary.  Pacers the only way of doing this in the short term.

I fear, though, that "short term" and "normal" may be mutually exclusive.  Wouldn't want to bet either way!

Cycled via Red Cow Crossing this morning and noticed that the Class 143's which had been parked up in the EXD West Yard for several weeks have disappeared. Have we finally seen the back of these particular units?

At least one has been pressed into service as a 'troop carrier' - ferrying railway staff from Exeter to Taunton - so that social distancing rules can be followed as the taxis normally used do not offer that facility.

I think there is one being used between Plymouth (North Road) and Laira depot as well, but can't go and check as its more than two miles from home :P

A 150 has been used at Plymouth  although a 5 Car IET has been seen.   Plymouth can't drive 143s

I am not surprised I have never see a city drive any sort of vehicle  ;D

From Northern reported in the Yorkshire Post (https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/heritage/how-23-pacers-storage-could-save-yorkshire-heritage-railway-collapse-2543396) - their 23 x 144 units are all parked up on the Keighley and Worth


In a wide ranging article, the further fate of these trains, and the financial issues that threaten the future of the Keighley and Worth, are also covered.

There are 3 x 143 units parked up in the EXD New Yard - immediately north of the Red Cow LC where the SWR stock usually has it's layovers - so we aren't rid of them quite yet.

Also most, if not all, the EXM<>PGN services have reverted to single 150/2's this week after a few weeks of running with 4 coaches; maintenance time or simply not enough passengers to justify the latter?

The 143s are back coupled to 150/2s on the Paignton-Exmouth run probably for social distancing as the service is still only hourly between Paignton-Exeter.

Funny old world!   Saved by social distancing.   I understand that Northern have retained some 142s too so they can run longer trains for a while ...

Last Northern Pacer ran today ...

Northern Press Release (https://media.northernrailway.co.uk/news/pacers-bid-final-farewell-to-northern-network)


Transport for Wales - still running Pacers?
Transport for Devon - another week or two yet?
Heritage Rail - "We've only just begun"?

Exeter has 8 143s  all coupled to 150/2s AFAIK so they only need 4 165s to replace them which have become available as stock has cascaded west.

It would leave the 8 150s to become 4 coach trains and 4 165s as three coach trains.

165/166s will replace the 150s when enough become available. The depot at Exeter has been re-designed for 3 coach trains like the 158s already there.

A 165 has already done the gauging runs and passenger service to Barnstaple and I would suspect Paignton and Exmouth.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50715555626_b9364715d2_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kgytMu)166211 at Paignton Station 1855 13 DMR 20 (https://flic.kr/p/2kgytMu) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

166211 working 2F24 1855hrs Paignton to Exmouth.

I was just driving over the level crossing and saw it in the platform. Driver said it was the only one at Exeter and the 143s have gone.

2 bad consequences of Turbos coming west are:
Exeter depot have little knowledge of 16xs and so can't work on them as well as the 143s/150s.
The 16x fleet is already aged and SPM already rob Peter to pay Paul to keep them running as there are few spares.

Is there nostalgia for Pacers? Everyone seemed to hate them when travelling in them! I have a Pacer (https://surlybikes.com/bikes/legacy/pacer) at home and I rather like it; but it's only got two wheels... and even that ceased manufacture a couple of years ago!

The 143 pacers down here had decent seats.

There is currently one Turbo in Exeter.   A second is due to arrive shortly and will primarily be used for driver familiarisation.   Although training was undertaken earlier a lot of crew have lost their competency on the 16x as they haven't had the chance to work them.

The first of the three additional Castle sets has also arrived with the second due soon.

There are actually 2 Turbos at Exeter - 166210 and 211.  166211 is out and in service whilst 210 was due to do a number of crew training runs between EXD and Paignton today - including a run out to Pinhoe for route familiarisation to allow for Barnstaple services to turnback at Pinhoe when the Exmouth Junction siding is replaced. These training runs were canned today (Monday, 14/12), but are scheduled to run every day this week.

Exmouth Junction siding "is replaced". Dose this mean taken out or renewed?

Sorry  :-[  I meant, 'when the Exmouth Junction turnback siding track is taken up and renewed'.

Question: The Exmouth Junction turnback has, according to both Google & Bing aerial images, two sidings with the northerly line appearing to be blocked OOU; would there be any prospect of reactivation of the second track so that both Barnstaple & Okehampton services could be accommodated should it prove necessary?

That has always been the case, even back in the days of Mk1 DMU's Reading TMD always had one of the highest fleet availability in the country

Those 143s are still hanging on. Saw one attached to 150/2 at Paignton and one on Dawlish cams.

below 158957 on Paignton-Exmouth on Sunday

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50744789402_38c1b9000f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kj9iY7)158957 2F24 1855 Paignton-Exmouth (https://flic.kr/p/2kj9iY7) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

143 working 2T20 just seen on Dawlish cams. They're getting there monies worth. Modern Railways say Exeter's are very reliable beating newer stock/

Just 3 days to go on GWR ... though if you still want to ride a 143, I note that 15 have been given a derogation to be used until 31st May 2021 there - that's if you can get permission to go to Wales.  Also 9 Porterbrook and 4 Angel trains class 153s - not all their 153s, I don't think - some have had work done to make them compliant ...

A cavalcade of 3 143s is scheduled to depart Exeter St David's for the final time at 12.19 on 30th December to Bristol.

Is a cavalcade coming the other way. I notice 3B72 arrives earlier from St Phillips Marsh at 0656; a 166? I hope and the same move on the 31st, and on the 1st Jan,  and 2nd Jan

That's 4 unless they are just paths. They only need 4 to replace the 8 143s and there are two already here.

Am I reading this right? Does anybody know the train numbers. 166210, 16211 already at Exeter.

These must be paths as only the 1st Jan says altered WTT 1st January 2020

The class 158 unit for the 0708 Exeter St D to Barnstaple currently comes,
rather UNrobustly, at 0515 from St Phillips Marsh depot arriving at St D at 0656.
Obviously this is operationally undesirable and in cases of late running then local
Exeter management initiatives are instigated.

When does it go back?  This seems so costly an exercise.

From Nation Cymru (https://nation.cymru/news/scrapped-in-tehran-but-still-running-in-wales-disgrace-as-pacer-trains-given-another-extension/)

It stays at Exeter for 3 days for the Barneys and then goes back ECS at the end of the third day.      How else do you think it should get there and back.   St Phillips Marsh is their Home Depot

(https://live.staticflickr.com/4604/25592516047_85868b938b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EZwkoF)Exeter Train depot february 2018 (https://flic.kr/p/EZwkoF) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

The illustration of the refurbished depot at Exeter has 158s in it's artists impression which is three years old so I would think that depot is going to take over full maintenance of the stock it has. 150s 166/165s and 158s.
Earlier in the thread I posted a 166211 at Paignton on 13 DMR (timetable day) and at the same time a week later a 158.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50776469642_bf72919bda_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kmWFp9)exeter depot (https://flic.kr/p/2kmWFp9) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

Exeter depot has a lifting road and bogie turntables so they can do some heavy maintenance. They will also be able to do limited maintenance to an 802.

The plans above show a three coach train (158/166?) on the lifting road.
The next road has a 3 coach and a 2 coach (150/2?)
and the next road a five car 802? to illustrate the flexibility of the depot.

The "cavalcade " went early leaving the depot at 11.25. Glad I did not go to get a photo. Maybe someone else has. It arrived at St Phillip Marsh nearly 2 hours early.

From another site: 
The cavalcade was 143603/618/617 and 150207, 8 coaches.

I can understand the idea of doing 'overnight maintenance' (i.e. simple preparation for the following day's diagram) on an IET, but I thought that, contractually, all other maintenance had to be done by Hitachi at either North Pole or Stoke Gifford. Hence, the recent very slow excursion of an 802 with severe wheel flats from Plymouth to Stoke Gifford, even though Laira possesses a lathe for the purpose ? ? ?

I don't expect 802s to be lifted or wheels turned but the current 802 that presently stables in new yard on Saturday night could go into the depot for servicing. There are two floors of office above for staff which looks like Exeter will become the main hub for GWR in the South West.

Contractually - as written down in the TARA - all maintenance is done by the TSP (Hitachi), and so is normal overnight preparation such as emptying retention tanks and filling the other ones. This can be done with prior notification (so TSP staff can get here) at defined out-stabling locations: Hereford, Exeter, Taunton and Worcester. Other locations can be used if the TSP agrees. Bear in mind that all cleaning, inside and out, also has to be done overnight by the TSP, with penalties for any "Presentation KPI Standards Failure or Cleaning KPI Standards Failure,".

Sorry blinded by the abbreviations.

Replacing the 143s with shortened castle class sets is the wrong train in the wrong place.

Has a 150 been lost to GWR too, or was that just a stock move?


Maybe (I will leave other to comment on suitabilities), but is there not scope for moving things around - for example replacing remaining DMUs with Castles on Cardiff - Taunton where that hadn't been done, releasing turbos for runs like Exmouth - Paignton.


IAGY (I agree with you). Significant need to update our acronyms page which is due heavy maintenance. AND a request to posters to fill in what things stand for the first time they use them!

I don't know who TARA is.  To me, that's Tara Street Station ...

Tara will always be Tara King (The Avengers) to me.

Four 2+3 HST's to replace Pacers is a backward step wherever they end up. Maybe they will only operate with one engine to save fuel. Might give a shock if they turn up at Exmouth and the locals think we have got a London service!!

What does Tara mean?  To me it is the Hill of Tara, in Co Meath which was the seat of the High Kings of Ireland. 

I feel there's a story to be told here  ;)

Lots of short forms on Bristol based services today:


Does this co-incide with an appearance of more turbos (you know, the sort that run regional trains in Wessex) in Devon ? 
Are there enough people travelling for it to actually matter ?? 
Will it be fixed in time for any return to work next week ???

There could be a build up of repairs due to Maintenance staff availability being affected by COVID absences.   TFW put out a statement before Christmas that they had staff self isolating.       SPM could be similarly affected.

Yes - that's also a possibility and it could be a co-incidence that GWR find themselves short of trains / carriages within days of the final runs of class 143 units.  ;D

I wonder why. I defined or explained all that was needed for the sense to be there - often an official name doesn't help, and the original words that were initialised can be worse.

KPI (key performance indicator) is quite common in the rail industry and elsewhere. In any case, simply leaving it out doesn't really alter the meaning of what I wrote.

TSP (train service provider) might or might not be the train provider to GWR - but we know Hitachi is, and that was used in the post I quoted. Strictly speaking, the TSP is Agility Trains West Limited, with Hitachi as majority owner and the only active one in management terms now that John Laing have sold out to others.

TARA is the label for the contract between the TSP and the "Relevant Operator" - GWR. I though I implied that clearly enough. In full that's the Train Availability and Reliability Agreement, but does that really say more than "GWR's contract with Hitachi"? We have had the TARA and its big brother the MARA (Master Availability and Reliability Agreement) between DfT and Agility mentioned here before, though not often. They are published on line (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/intercity-express-programme-technical-specification-and-contracts), but you may be a bit put off reading them by their size (as IndustryInsider pointed out when he posted that link originally) - 368 pages of TARA and 731 of MARA. Those copies are still the ones signed in 2014; they may have survived the coming of EMAs or they may just not have been kept up to date.

A lot of initials get used as labels even when the original full wording is no longer appropriate, and a definition or explanation of what the thing is would be better. IEP was Intercity Express Programme, so hardly a good label for a train. GWR's switch to IET was the minimum they could do - calling a train a train. Other examples include GPS: it may have been the only Global Positioning System originally; it isn't now. So if you find those words in a glossary and expect to drop them into the text as a replacement and get the right meaning, you'd be disappointed. It would have to be "the USA's national GNSS" - that term (Global Navigation Satellite System) is now preferred to avoid the ambiguity of GPS, itself now just a label.

Thanks for filling me / us in.  Perhaps my personality, but a list of letters standing for something, even if I can see the context, leaves me with a question and a feeling incompleteness.  Good to know; the raising by another member initially tells me I am not unique.

I researched and found KPI quickly; TSP came up with a veritable flood of options in a search - I did NOT spot "Train Service Provider"  and thought that it could be "Technical Support Professional" - a chap / chapess in  particular job function required to oversee the work rather than a team from Hitachi.  Tara illogically stuck in my mind (some three letter station codes do too - I always think of Barnstaple being extreme right wing) - yes you may wonder why!

Anyway - we are a forum of very bright and questioning members, but there is such a wide range of knowledge out there to be had that most of us are pretty thing thin on the ground in many areas - evidenced by certain quiz  questions I have asked that have stuck. We have a lot of casual guest too who are for the most part even more generalists.  So thank you (and everyone) who fills in to help understanding of shortenings - appreciating that at times things have moved on and it becomes counterintuitive,

I actually agree with stuving in this case. He explained the abbreviations pretty well when first using them, I thought ? better than giving the full terms would have done. Apart from KPI, which is not specific to rail and is fairly well known. Nevertheless, clearly some people need to know the terms in full before they feel they understand them ? different people's brains work in differing ways (thank goodness, or we'd never achieve anything vaguely complex!).

166203 in old livery working Paignton-Exmouth today

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50824795386_82fc289f56_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2krdmXC)166203 at Paignton 09JNR2020 (https://flic.kr/p/2krdmXC) by Robert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/revupminster/), on Flickr

The guard was in the back cab but I am sure the driver opened the doors. Only two people got off.

Drivers open the doors and guards close them in non-DOO locations, with a few exceptions when there are very short platforms.

It's not that old. If it was in the original Network South East or Thames Trains livery then I would agree.  ;D ;D