Great Western Coffee Shop

I think this fits in here as it's about unfit trains for commuter services.

Yesterday 2/4/08 I caught the 16:51 Padd Worcester HD HST as far as Slough.

Choose to stand in vestible although I could have had an outside airline seat.

Left on time arrived Slough on time 16:06. Train didn't pull out until 16:09:30!

A dwell time of 3.:30 minutes on the Down Main vice 1 minute booked !

Up train HST 16:10  Up Main 2 minutes late arriving 1:30 dwell time so left 2:30 down. From the speed of the next up train through platform 3 it had obviously caught at least a double wellow at Farnham Road. Although the platform signal was green the driver can't accelerate until the ATP kicks out.

You have to have two station staff on the platform plus the conducotr to ensure all the doors are closed and the conductor can lock them and give the right away to the driver.

Compared with a Turbo which can open it's doors disgourge its load, reload, close its doors and be away, a HST is totally unsuitable for commuter use.

I am interested in the example chosen. How much demand do you reckon there is for travel to/from Slough to/from areas further afield?

Lee quite a lot, but not a lot to each possible destination.

Don't forget these HSTs are  providing a fast Padd - Slough service you can't really beat 16 minutes. They also mean that I can leave Padd later have a fast run to Slough and then pick the earlier Padd Taplow which we've overtaken. This is off course only off peak, the fast Sloughs in the peak trundle down teh relief in 22 minutes.

They also provide a fast Slough - Reading service so pick up quite a lot of passengers at Slough. How many of those go on from Reading I don't know but you often see people with cases, families etc so can can surmise they change at Reading. Of course you can get virtually anywhere from Reading so unless you did a census over a period it would difficult to know what the traffic flows West from Slough really are.

But it's not the job the HSTs were designed for. Which I suppose is a great tribute to their designers that they just about cope with this totally unsuitable use.

"eight------" you are correct - the HSTs are poor for commuters.

But it is not just that - they are poor (due to poor acceleration) on any stopping services (e.g. Cotswold Line - as there are no "Expresses" left on that line!), which are also likely to have short platforms - makes the dwell time worse.

See a post by me a while back, about my observations of 2 late HSTs at Worcester, which departed even more late because they were HSTs!

That is why some people like the Adelantes!

As well as this, the journey time for commuters has increased:

*poor acceleration
*and increased dwell times.

----------------

But - there are more seats onboard, so for commuters, that is a + .

Very difficult debate!

Absolutely, so of course what happens at unmanned stations like Keynsham and many between Bristol and the South West is more delays while the poor train manager has to try to get all the doors shut and then lock them before some latecomer opens another one to get on. I've said it before and I'll say it again - using HSTs as commuter trains is a poor, short-sighted, short termism approach to pacifying a group of customers who just want a reliable local service using appropriate trains.

What about long distance commuters

The post morton in marsh commuters who do want a RELIABLE service but will accept some dwell time if it means the difference between a 165 and a HST.  Personally, I would even accept a 166 - 1st class has a table!  I can work!

On a 1 hour 50 min journey - I dont care if the train is 10 late on arrival - I get discount and it doesnt make that much difference

What I want is to know what train is showing up when and what conditions I will travel in

This of course also brings in the debate about FGW using HSTs as local trains (e.g. Cornwall) at the same time as being InterCity.

On the Cotswold Line they have to, because no additional expresses and additional locals can be fitted in, due to the single track.

Really, the aim should be to separate HSTs from commuters and locals. HSTs are High Speed Train. They are InterCity 125s, which means that they should be speeding at 125 mph (at least) from one city to the next and not stopping everywhere (with some exceptions, of course), and providing a comfortable environment for long distance (> 1-2hr) passengers!

But.... they have plenty of seats!

Note - I would rather a 166 at worst or 180 from Pad to WOS than a train to oxford and change

I have been known to be in paddington for the 1921 seen how over crowded it was a s a 2 car 165 (pre December change) and sat in the bar and waited for the 2021!

HSTs are unsuitable stopping trains due to poor acceleration and short platforms. take the 1706 Padd.-Westbury; it stops at London Paddington, Twyford(short platform), Reading, Theale(short platform), Thatcham(short platform), Newbury, Kintbury(short platform), Hungerford(short platform), Bedwyn(short platform), Pewsey(short platform) and Westbury. Stopping all the time defeats the object of the HSTs; they have to keep stopping and starting with poor acceleration, making them slower than a turbo. If they are going a reasonable distance between stops they are good, but not if they stop a lot.

I think a few 180 adelantes should be retained for these more local routes.

The 1706 is virtually empty past Newbury and nearly always keeps time, HSTs might not be ideal ,but they are all we have,..forget about 180s they are unreliable piles of junk, mainly due to  design faults

Quick question for the OP - why did you choose to stand in the vestibule instead of sitting down? Always baffles me why people do this, particularly the ones that get all sniffy when I try to get to the buffet or the khazi.

quite simple really especially if travelling PAD to RED, by standing in the vestibules close to the buffet they are close to the gateline at Reading and can save a precious 30 seconds over there fellow commuters

Surely fact that eight.... stood near the buffet is irrelevant to the subject???

We're not in 1976-77 and the dawn of the HST any more. The 125s radically changed travel habits, making long-distance commuting practical, as Mookiemoo acknowledges elsewhere. I doubt she would be doing Worcester-London if it still took 2hrs 40 mins, the Cathedrals Express timing in the 1960s. Did many people do commutes like Bath-London pre-HSTs? Hardly. We are now in the ugly world of compromise between differing demands, brought about by the impact of the HSTs, like on the Cotswold Line, and high-speed sprints for a handful of passengers are history.

The TGV may indulge in this sort of behaviour in France, but if you want to go somewhere off the TGV routes, then many French rail services leave a lot to be desired, even to some pretty sizeable towns.

The thing is with France, the major cities are the correct spacing apart for HSSs. In the UK, when they finally plan a North South/East West Line, everyone will want a station, thereby preventing HS running!

Take Cardiff to London: at least Newport, Bristol, Bath, Chippingham, Swindon, Didcot, Readnig, Slough will all (maybe rightly so) want stops!!

Who should get them? The bigger places: Bristol, Reading (NB: I do not know which are the biggest, just inferring)??

Or the places where London commuters will board: Slough, Didcot, Chippingham in addition.

Or will the WAG make it stop at Newport?

Or will CrossRail amke it stop at Maindenhead?

 ???