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Sideshoots - associated subjects => Campaigns for new and improved services => Topic started by: Noggin on May 27, 2020, 10:13:44 pm



Title: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Noggin on May 27, 2020, 10:13:44 pm
Apologies if elsewhere

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/new-bid-to-reopen-st-annes-park-station/ (https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/new-bid-to-reopen-st-annes-park-station/)


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: grahame on May 28, 2020, 05:23:24 am
Apologies if elsewhere

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/new-bid-to-reopen-st-annes-park-station/ (https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/new-bid-to-reopen-st-annes-park-station/)

Nope, new thread it is  ;D - thank you.

Quote
A railway station that has out of use for 50 years could be reopened under proposals being put forward by the MP for Bristol East.

Kerry McCarthy, along with Labour councillor Tim Rippington, has formally submitted a bid to restore St Anne’s Park Station, and says the move has the potential to “transform travel in the area”, reduce gridlock and open access to other parts of the city.

The station near Wick Road was first opened on May 23 1898 and its closure in 1970 left the constituency of Bristol East with no train stations and the communities of Brislington and St Anne’s poorly served by public transport.

Provided there's sufficient service to where people want to go, this could make sense.  Contrast the success of stations on underground and metro lines with frequent services versus the likes of Dunston, Bordesley and Ardwick.


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Celestial on May 28, 2020, 10:40:11 am
I would have thought Saltford has a much better case between Bristol and Bath, yet it seems to be no further forward having been mooted for ages.  (Yes, I know it shouldn't be either/or, but if the more compelling proposition can't get any traction, what chance the more speculative proposal?)


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: grahame on May 28, 2020, 10:47:32 am
I would have thought Saltford has a much better case between Bristol and Bath, yet it seems to be no further forward having been mooted for ages.  (Yes, I know it shouldn't be either/or, but if the more compelling proposition can't get any traction, what chance the more speculative proposal?)

Both gives you the better business case as you get farebox income from 2 lots of passengers on the same trains but
Either/or may be the outcome if it comes down to budget or the need to intersperse express trains and stoppers up to capacity


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Robin Summerhill on May 28, 2020, 10:49:35 am
The reeaspn why St Annes Park and Saltford closed, whilst Keynsham and Oldfield Park didn't, had a lot to do with location, both being at the bottom of steep hills whilst frequent bus services to Bristol (and Bath in the case of Saltford) were avilable without the need to walk up those hills.

Whilst travelling habits might have changed, the topography has not.

Furthermore, given the location of St Annes Park station (and there wouldn't be anywhere else to put it given a tunnel on one side and a deep cutting on the other) I can't think of anywhere you could sensibly put a car park.


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 28, 2020, 10:52:48 am
In the case of Saltford, there have been comments from (I can't remember if GWR or NR) that a new station would probably not be sited on the old location on Brassmill Lane but nearer to the High St.


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: rogerw on May 28, 2020, 11:58:33 am
In the case of Saltford, there have been comments from (I can't remember if GWR or NR) that a new station would probably not be sited on the old location on Brassmill Lane but nearer to the High St.
Not that easy. The High Street is on top of Saltford tunnel and the previous station was at the only location where a level access could be achieved. Move it any further towards the tunnel and you are into the cutting and substantial earthworks, even if access could be achieved without acquiring property


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 28, 2020, 06:30:25 pm
I would have thought Saltford has a much better case between Bristol and Bath, yet it seems to be no further forward having been mooted for ages.  (Yes, I know it shouldn't be either/or, but if the more compelling proposition can't get any traction, what chance the more speculative proposal?)

The reeaspn why St Annes Park and Saltford closed, whilst Keynsham and Oldfield Park didn't, had a lot to do with location, both being at the bottom of steep hills whilst frequent bus services to Bristol (and Bath in the case of Saltford) were avilable without the need to walk up those hills.

Whilst travelling habits might have changed, the topography has not.

Furthermore, given the location of St Annes Park station (and there wouldn't be anywhere else to put it given a tunnel on one side and a deep cutting on the other) I can't think of anywhere you could sensibly put a car park.

St Anne's Park and Saltford closed on the same day, Monday 5th Jan 1970. The Midland line through Mangotsfield had been scheduled for closure on the preceding Saturday (a landslip brought this forward by a week). To me that suggests that the closures had more to do with 'rationalisation' than any particular problem with the location of the stations.

Is there any need for a car park at St Anne's Park? It would be a suburban station. Montpelier, Redland and Stapleton Road get by very well without. Saltford would probably serve a wider catchment; locals may well be happy to walk down the hill but people from the surrounding villages would probably wish to cycle or drive. Luckily, there's plenty of room for parking at the original station site.


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Robin Summerhill on May 28, 2020, 07:58:58 pm

St Anne's Park and Saltford closed on the same day, Monday 5th Jan 1970. The Midland line through Mangotsfield had been scheduled for closure on the preceding Saturday (a landslip brought this forward by a week). To me that suggests that the closures had more to do with 'rationalisation' than any particular problem with the location of the stations.

Is there any need for a car park at St Anne's Park? It would be a suburban station. Montpelier, Redland and Stapleton Road get by very well without. Saltford would probably serve a wider catchment; locals may well be happy to walk down the hill but people from the surrounding villages would probably wish to cycle or drive. Luckily, there's plenty of room for parking at the original station site.

Neither station was listed for closure in the Beeching Report (available online if anyone  wants to look), but the fact that they succumbed suggests a lack of revenue and/or bums on seats. Other than a minor speeding up of stopping trains between Bristol and Bath, which back then wouldn't have been the major issue it is today, I'm not sure how much operational benefit came from it.

It is a valid comparison to make to stations on the Severn Beach line, but to me the area doesn't "feel" the same. There are no houses to speak of down in the dip by the bridge, and many of those close by are quite large and low density. For the station to prosper it would need to attract people from the (ex?) council estate at St Annes and the Wick Road/ Langton Court Road areas. And all of them would be quite strenuosly uphill from the station, which is why I mentioned a car park.

I might be wrong I accept, but I suspect that few people in the area who use public transport is going to find taking the train to Tempe Meads preferable to using the frequent bus services that currently run past their front doors in many cases. That wouldn't apply so much for travel to Keynsham or Bath of course, but I also wonder what potential market there is for those journeys.



Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 28, 2020, 11:03:12 pm
I agree with Red Squirrel on the car parking. Though it's probably also true that current bus users wouldn't switch to the train for journeys to central Bristol, or even to Bath, but equally car users aren't going to drive half a mile or a mile to wait for a train when another mile would take them to the centre of the city.

One potential market for this station might be students at St Brendan's college, which, despite being right at the end of the the built-up area, attracts pupils from all over Bristol, Bath and even beyond.


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Robin Summerhill on May 28, 2020, 11:26:30 pm
One potential market for this station might be students at St Brendan's college, which, despite being right at the end of the the built-up area, attracts pupils from all over Bristol, Bath and even beyond.

Given the locations of the stations and the current bus services in the area, Keynsham would actually be better placed to take this traffic. There are regular buses from Keynsham church (less than 5 minutes walk from the station) to St Brendans, but at least one change in Brislington would be needed from St Annes Park


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: johnneyw on May 29, 2020, 12:16:43 am
Then again, uptake on new stations always seems to hugely exceed expectations, an uncomfortable truth for the "innovative bus based solutions" brigade. St Anne's may prove an expensive folly, or confirm the Severn Beach Line popularity trend. Worth a punt given current odds?


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 29, 2020, 12:23:23 am

Neither station was listed for closure in the Beeching Report...


There were two Beeching Reports - The Reshaping of British Railways and The Development of the Major Railway Trunk Routes. The latter report probably had more impact on local stations on major routes:

Quote
For the purpose of considering the effect of the future passenger traffic demand on the railway trunk system we have accepted the unavoidable conclusion that stopping services on trunk routes will decline. Most of them are grossly under-used and hopelessly uneconomic now, and are likely to become more so in future because of road improvement and further growth in car ownership. We have, therefore, restricted our consideration to intercity passenger movements.
Source: The Development of the Major Railway Trunk Routes (https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BRB_Beech002.pdf).

Of course the Beeching Reports only give part of the story. To my mind a much better appraisal of the mindset that kept closing railways and stations right through to the 1980s can be found in Holding the Line, by Richard Faulkner and Chris Austin...


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: grahame on May 29, 2020, 05:53:44 am
Noting comment up-thread along the lines "but who's going to get this train for the short trip into Temple Meads".  Good question - but that's far from the only traffic.   I am minded of trips on the Severn Beach lines, where passengers between intermediate stations have been a significant part of the loading - outbound train with lots of people getting on at Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road, and big changeovers (off and on) at Montpelier and Redland ...

St. Anne's would be served by ... what trains?  Inbound MetroWest trains from Westbury (or other turn backs at or beyond Bath Spa) but then where would they go and what stations would they serve beyond Temple Meads?   Look not only to flows from St Annes to Temple Meads, but also at flows to Clifton Down, to Filton Abbey Wood, to Ashton Gate and a plethora of other potentially diirect service stations. And look too to interchange traffic to Cheltenham Spa, to Newport and Cardiff, to Taunton and Exeter - such passengers would surely be more tempted onto the train if they could walk to St Annes and have an easy change at Temple Meads rather than make an intermodal change.   But all of this depends on a metro frequency service.


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 29, 2020, 09:28:55 am
Exactly


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Robin Summerhill on May 30, 2020, 10:35:36 pm
One thing that crossed my mind, given that Keynsham station buildings were demolished in the 1970s, was perhaps doing the same thing at St Annes Park and Saltford didn't stack up financially.

As I never actually used Oldfield Park until about 10 years ago (it was simply a station that trains stopped at that I was travelling on before that) I don't know whether any demolitions took place there, but I am sure there is someone on this forum who could tell us about that.


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 31, 2020, 12:20:25 am
One thing that crossed my mind, given that Keynsham station buildings were demolished in the 1970s, was perhaps doing the same thing at St Annes Park and Saltford didn't stack up financially.

The point I was making in my earlier reference to The Development of the Major Railway Trunk Routes is that 'stacking up financially' was not the point; it was all about closing anything you could get away with. Stopping trains on trunk routes, then as now, were considered a nuisance. What better way of getting rid of this nuisance than by closing intermediate stations?

As I never actually used Oldfield Park until about 10 years ago (it was simply a station that trains stopped at that I was travelling on before that) I don't know whether any demolitions took place there, but I am sure there is someone on this forum who could tell us about that.

A quick look on Wikipedia reveals that:

Quote
There was originally a full-time station master and ticket office. The 1929 ticket office was constructed of timber on tall wooden piles attached to both the Brook Road bridge and the ground below. It was located at the Moorland Road side of the bridge at road level. This has now been replaced by a portacabin styled ticket office on the westbound platform and a ticket dispensing machine.



Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Noggin on May 31, 2020, 11:10:15 pm
The A4 is horrible most of the time whilst both St Annes and the north side of Sandy Park are a bit out on a limb as regards busses.

I would have thought that a station would be a very useful addition for at least some of the population and make it a more attractive place to live, especially as the property is relatively cheap by Bristol standards


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 18, 2021, 06:41:01 pm
FoSBR are conducting a survey of people who would use St Annes Park station if it reopened. Would you use it? Would it be your local station if it reopened? If it's not your local station, would you travel there by train to visit friends or maybe walk in Nightingale Valley?

The survey is here: https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/DYZQVRV

Read FoSBR's update on the Restoring your Railway bid here: https://fosbr.org.uk/st-annes-park-station/

(https://fosbr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/st_annes_plus_footpath_colour_scaled.jpg)
Image: (c) D G Weekes




Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: johnneyw on June 18, 2021, 08:14:39 pm
Survey completed.  I have some memories of the station when it was still open from early visits Bristol in 1968 by train before the family moved there (again by train) the following year.  My most enduring image is of a darkend station from the carriage at night...perhaps stopping there but that might be a false memory...would any services from Paddington to Temple Meads have stopped there in the late 1960s?


Title: Re: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station
Post by: Bmblbzzz on June 20, 2021, 01:55:05 pm
St Anne[']s is in the Bristol Post today as an area "popular with young families and millennials" poised to suffer/benefit from "gentrification".
Quote
Khiara lives in Fishponds but is looking for a place in St. Anne’s. I asked her how she got to work, to which she replied she walks everyday, which takes her around 45 minutes.

This didn’t come as a surprise as, according to the locals, one of the main pitfalls of the area is its ‘lousy’ public transport.

June says there is only one bus, the 36, which goes from Brislington to the city centre.

Resident Collette - who has lived in the area for 16 years - described public transport in the area as one of her “biggest frustrations.”

She said she was delighted that campaigners including MP Kerry McCarthy and Brislington East Councillor Tim Rippington received funding from the government to begin the process of restoring St Anne’s railway station, which hasn’t been in operation for more than 50 years.

“Lots of children go to school in Bath and Keynsham,” she said. "It’d be a huge boom for the area."
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/st-annes-families-millennials-flocking-5546113



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