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From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53314197)

Like driverless government?

Cue the 'abolish the unions' cry.  Pointless having unions as they only support their members?
It's always been a battle between a Tory government vs Union; nothing unexpected.

Boris is trolling the Mayor and the unions.

TfL needs the money. There's little/no chance it means driverless trains for many years, but if he gives in, he's sold the drivers out, and bang go a few more votes for Labour. If TfL go bust, then he's demonstrated Labour can't be trusted to run things.
 

Are we talking overground only? I thought trains on some TfL underground lines had long been effectively driverless; they have a driver sitting in the cab because it's thought to be reassuring to the public, and presumably also to respond to emergencies and queries, but the train driving is automatic.

They are still technically driven as the driver controls the doors and can override the computer and take full control if needed.

There’s the Docklands Light Railway of course, which is a driverless, automated railway system including several different overlapping routes including flat junctions etc. 

So I think it’s reasonable to explore this concept elsewhere within TfL. 

Fully automated road vehicles without so much as a steering wheel are just around the corner, according to the motor industry; the actual timescale might be more akin to that for cold fusion. Nevertheless, in the more controlled environment of rail, this should be easier to deliver, so it would be foolish for operators, manufacturers and regulators not to be considering it. In fact, we know from these august pages that the wider industry has already started driverless operation; not only DLR but there's a link somewhere to an Australian freight line operating driverless. At some point, the technology, economics and public acceptance are all going to line up, and it might even be within a lifetime.

However, I'm extremely suspicious of political insistence on it, especially right now. Give the rail industry encouragement, a regulatory framework and funds if needed (I'm sure they will be) to explore it and it will happen in time. And of all the things that could need doing now on TfL or the wider network, this would be a very low priority.

From the info I can remember for the TLP Core ATO system the driver gives the ATO system the close door and proceed instruction by pressing 2 buttons on the desk.  The ATO closes the doors and the drive releases the buttons, there is an emergency stop.

The train is then controlled by the ATO which stops the train in the platform and opens the doors.

The driver can take over when required, to get the 24 TPH in the TLP core a human cannot respond quick enough to have that density of service we humans are too cautious.

I cannot imagine the Tube system be currently that different.

The difference on the DLR is the Train Captain can close the doors from any of the doors on the train, and is available to drive if required.

I think we the travelling public will always want a staff presence on a train for the foreseeable future

I looked up the TLA for TLP but it seems to be MIA. Do please enlighten us.  ;) ;D

£55,000 a year to "technically" drive a train by opening & closing the doors?

Where do I sign up? 🙄

Having used the Skytrain in Vancouver for a week two years ago that seemed to work very well with driverless trains.

I think other forum members are familiar with the system too. What do they think  ?

That was the original Seltrac implementation, and later versions of it are already running the Jubliee and Northern lines, and will soon also run all the sub-surface lines.  So what does the driver do? I'm not sure - but not drive the train, antway.

This is the best place to start looking: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/careers/

I don’t think anyone is suggesting full “driverless” ie with no one in the cab for any TfL route, underground, overground or anywhere on national rail.

But taking the underground routes, they’re all gradually being resignalled to attended automatic operation, which was fitted on the Victoria Line from new, let’s not forget.

I think “unattended” would need a more tightly controlled access to the track, with more platform edge doors.  But look at the current criticism of DLR for not having someone looking out the front...

I’d agree this is more political spin than substance.

Paul

With trains every 100 seconds in the peak on the Victoria line, that's an awful lot of 55k's pushing buttons. Particularly when you think it's not 55k when you add on other employer costs such as NI and a nice pension scheme.

I totally get that national rail drivers have a very responsible job when you consider route knowledge, the need to concentrate all the time, the risk to safety with any slip, and so on. I'm less convinced that tube drivers are in the same category to warrant the salaries they get, particularly on lines which are now fully automated.

Why not start by putting platform doors on the Victoria Line, a nice simple line with relatively few stations, where I presume the ATO means the train always stops in the same place.  You're half way there, and have a safer railway as well.

You're absolutely right, but the bruvvers would be out on strike quicker than you can say "Bob Crow".

The RMT derives its power in this area largely because they can bring London to a virtual halt and boy do they know how to leverage it - explains the fantasy salaries and ts & cs and the way that the merest whiff of problems results in the chequebook coming out - the "Olympic bonus" being a perfect example.

The Union know that once full automation arrives, its power is gone - that's why they'll try to scupper it at every opportunity and we end up with (expensive) nonsense like trains being "technically driven" by someone pushing a button to open/close the doors.

TLP ThamesLink Program

Thanks! Perhaps one of the Mods could add to the Acronym/Abbreviation section?