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Title: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: grahame on July 25, 2020, 19:16:31 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/320374
Quote Petition To consider a Rail Enthusiasts Railcard to do trainspotting at railway stations. Trainspotting is a hobby which is open to all ages & only requires a notebook & a pencil, or a camera to record photos/videos of trains. At some stations there are ticket barriers. This means spotters are encountering these to pursue the hobby. If a railcard was introduced they’ll be able to this. More detail at the link given - it suggest fees ... looks like a sort of platform ticket for those of us who do not have a criminal record, and aren't on a police "watchdog" list. What do members think? Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: PhilWakely on July 25, 2020, 19:18:35 Although not actually sold, ticket offices still do have the ability to sell platform tickets if this is just to get onto the platform.
Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: JayMac on July 25, 2020, 22:34:27 Hammer to crack a nut.
Rail enthusiasts should be welcome, barriers or not. We are extra eyes and ears who will gladly report issues to rail staff. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: ellendune on July 25, 2020, 22:37:26 Hammer to crack a nut. Rail enthusiasts should be welcome, barriers or not. We are extra eyes and ears who will gladly report issues to rail staff. Ok but what if the platform is already crowded with genuine passengers? Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: TaplowGreen on July 26, 2020, 07:45:06 Hammer to crack a nut. Rail enthusiasts should be welcome, barriers or not. We are extra eyes and ears who will gladly report issues to rail staff. Ok but what if the platform is already crowded with genuine passengers? Or indeed, crowded with trainspotters in a state of near ecstasy because a train such as The Flying Scotsman is expected to pass through? I noted a number accounts of genuine, fare paying customers being shoved out of the way in these circumstances. I think a Railcard scheme would be a good idea so that genuine trainspotters could be recognised, especially given the number of occasions upon which terrorist attacks have taken place at railway stations...........how do you know that innocent looking chap with the camera and the notepad is merely writing down train numbers to add to his collection, or has more sinister intentions? Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: GBM on July 26, 2020, 07:58:49 At face value it seems a good idea, and one I would consider.
Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: broadgage on July 26, 2020, 13:57:04 Hammer to crack a nut. Rail enthusiasts should be welcome, barriers or not. We are extra eyes and ears who will gladly report issues to rail staff. Ok but what if the platform is already crowded with genuine passengers? Then train spotters should be particularly careful not to add needlessly to congestion. Presuming that they hold a valid ticket, then they are just as entitled to use the platform as are other passengers. Train spotters who do NOT hold a valid ticket could reasonably be excluded at busy times IMHO. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: JayMac on July 26, 2020, 14:56:16 Or indeed, crowded with trainspotters in a state of near ecstasy because a train such as The Flying Scotsman is expected to pass through? The number of rail enthusiasts out to see the daily Class 80x Azumas at 0540 from Edinburgh Waverley and 1000 from London King's Cross really isn't a cause for concern. Flying Scotsman without the definite article on the other hand... ;D :P Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: TaplowGreen on July 26, 2020, 16:47:16 Or indeed, crowded with trainspotters in a state of near ecstasy because a train such as The Flying Scotsman is expected to pass through? The number of rail enthusiasts out to see the daily Class 80x Azumas at 0540 from Edinburgh Waverley and 1000 from London King's Cross really isn't a cause for concern. Flying Scotsman without the definite article on the other hand... ;D :P ..........sadly sometimes it's all for nothing :( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBBK2hjcPuA Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: grahame on July 26, 2020, 17:18:34 I can't help wondering if - because they have paid - "train spotters" would feel they had a right rather than a privilege to be at (say) the extreme end of the platform as a steam train pulled in. "Please stand back" from station staff being met with "why should I - I paid to be here" rather than compliance.
Lateral thinking - existing railcards to be "smart" and include a platform ticket in their benefits - swipe in and out at gates. And a new railcard for those who don't othewise qualify - perhaps a slightly higher price than the normal ones - with the platform ticket / card withdrawn on misuse such as on travelling with a railcard but no ticket. Oh - I sometimes take the view that "I am not a train spotter ..." but I did photograph one of the trains coming though Melksham this morning and looking back at the pictures, I can tell you it was 66846 on the front and 70812 on the back. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: Robin Summerhill on July 26, 2020, 17:52:26 Bearing in mind the derogatory use of the term in popular culture, I wonder how many hardy individuals would apply for a "Trainspotters Railcard" in the first place
Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: TaplowGreen on July 26, 2020, 19:32:46 Bearing in mind the derogatory use of the term in popular culture, I wonder how many hardy individuals would apply for a "Trainspotters Railcard" in the first place I think trainspotters are looked upon with affectionate bemusement rather than in a derogatory way. I played rugby with a chap who was also a spotter and with our pitches being near the railway line there were often good natured shouts of "did you get that one Nick?" as a train roared past during a match.....live and let live, it's a harmless hobby. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: JayMac on July 26, 2020, 23:27:49 live and let live, it's a harmless hobby. I agree. I've little time for those who choose to chase an odd shaped ball around a muddy pitch on a cold windswept January afternoon. Leather on willow in glorious Summer sunshine is more my thing. But each to their own. 😜 Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: JayMac on July 26, 2020, 23:42:40 I think trainspotters are looked upon with affectionate bemusement rather than in a derogatory way. There's a hierarchy too. Line bashers look down on those who collect loco numbers. Loco spotters look down on carriage spotters. Carriage spotters look down on those who collect freight wagon numbers. And they all look down on bus enthusiasts. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: Robin Summerhill on July 27, 2020, 00:31:45 There's a hierarchy too. Line bashers look down on those who collect loco numbers. Loco spotters look down on carriage spotters. Carriage spotters look down on those who collect freight wagon numbers. And they all look down on bus enthusiasts. For those of a certain age ;) (https://thumbsnap.com/s/Yxzbvwq1.jpg) Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: TaplowGreen on July 27, 2020, 06:30:12 I think trainspotters are looked upon with affectionate bemusement rather than in a derogatory way. There's a hierarchy too. Line bashers look down on those who collect loco numbers. Loco spotters look down on carriage spotters. Carriage spotters look down on those who collect freight wagon numbers. And they all look down on bus enthusiasts. .....that helps to explain the bemusement. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: Phil on July 27, 2020, 10:47:09 I think a Railcard scheme would be a good idea so that genuine trainspotters could be recognised I have to say that in my experience, it doesn't require a railcard to recognise a rail enthusiast - and I'd imagine that staff are even more adept at spotting them than I am. I'm fairly sure at Westbury for example (where I spend most of my time getting on or off or just waiting) that most of the regulars are known to the staff there by name. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: Clan Line on July 27, 2020, 11:36:31 Bad idea !!
Any person has a right to access a station (except in emergency - terror/UXB/accident/etc). A card makes it all to easy for that right to become a paid for "privilege" which any jobsworth on a barrier can remove. The very liberal interpretation of the Penalty Fares system in some locations already seems to point that way. I have had several meaningful discussions with barrier staff about accessing a platform when not travelling - when I asked for the Duty Manager I was invariably let through ! I would have no objection to purchasing a platform ticket (at 1d ? ;)) - but I know at least one of my local TOCs (SWT) had told their staff not to sell them. Didn't that break the rules about ticket sales ? Another TOC (FGW) thought I was bonkers when I asked if I could buy a platform ticket - at an "open" station ! When I explained that I didn't actually want one, I just wanted to know if they would sell me one, they said they could. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: grahame on July 27, 2020, 11:53:03 Any person has a right to access a station (except in emergency - terror/UXB/accident/etc). .... Not quite ..."Withdrawal of Implied Permission" From Byline Times (https://bylinetimes.com/2019/05/09/the-sinister-orders-banning-homeless-people-from-train-stations/) Quote Homeless people risk being banned from their local train station under an increasingly used order called a Withdrawal of Implied Permission (WIP). Data obtained by Byline Times shows that between 2013 and the end of 2017 483 people were banned from train stations under these orders. Although the number issued dropped after the first year they were introduced, it has steadily increased since 2015. Withdrawal of Implied Permission orders are designed to be used against people engaging in ‘anti-social behaviour’ but there are concerns they could disproportionately target homeless people. Examples of behaviour that could lead to an order being issued have been listed on notices in various train stations. As well as offences such as shoplifting the examples include: begging, loitering, persistent rough sleeping and alcohol related crimes. In 2016 British Transport Police working at London Victoria station tweeted a picture of such a notice while commenting that “begging in and around the station could result in a 6 month ban” and encouraging people to report “unwanted behaviour”. I'm not sure of the procedure for issuing these notices, but they do exist and include "loitering" in the list of reasons for their issue which is, after all, what train spotters do in the gaps between services ... Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: Robin Summerhill on July 27, 2020, 12:13:56 I’m not sure that anyone has a right as such to enter a station because they are on private land.
One clearly has a right to enter a station if you have bought a ticket, because you have then entered into a contract with a company to take you somewhere by rail. In order to access their service, you need then to enter the station. But that is for a specific purpose and not a general right. You would not expect to be allowed to go airside in an airport to watch planes. You can watch them quite satisfactorily from landside, in exactly the same way as you could watch trains from outside the station. It is sometimes forgotten that in previous years canal towpaths were just as private as railway land when it came to public access. Those rules tended to be overtaken by events as the canal networks were formally abandoned and became derelict, but they were still technically in place. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: stuving on July 27, 2020, 12:16:59 Bad idea !! Any person has a right to access a station (except in emergency - terror/UXB/accident/etc). A card makes it all to easy for that right to become a paid for "privilege" which any jobsworth on a barrier can remove. The very liberal interpretation of the Penalty Fares system in some locations already seems to point that way. I have had several meaningful discussions with barrier staff about accessing a platform when not travelling - when I asked for the Duty Manager I was invariably let through ! I would have no objection to purchasing a platform ticket (at 1d ? ;)) - but I know at least one of my local TOCs (SWT) had told their staff not to sell them. Didn't that break the rules about ticket sales ? Another TOC (FGW) thought I was bonkers when I asked if I could buy a platform ticket - at an "open" station ! When I explained that I didn't actually want one, I just wanted to know if they would sell me one, they said they could. A platform ticket is not a ticket - not in the sense used in the RSP TSA, anyway. The definition therein says: Quote “Ticket” means a document which evidences the Purchase of a Fare, an Excess Fare or an Upgrade or certain types of Reservation. The rules about ticket sales apply to tickets in that sense, conferring a right to travel. A platform ticket would be some kind of barrier pass, a local matter for the station operator (at least in principle). Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: paul7575 on July 27, 2020, 12:40:57 Not much of a trainspotter if he doesn’t realise that a “railcard” is the thing you use to get a discount off a fare. ???
What he really wants is some sort of “photo”, “ID”, or “membership” card, but please not a railcard... Paul Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 28, 2020, 00:45:59 Choose trains
Choose a ticket Choose a railcard Choose a discount Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: onthecushions on July 28, 2020, 14:47:11 There's always the Ian Allan Loco-spotters club that NR could revive, complete with badge (in six regional colours), membership card and solemn undertaking to obey this rule:
Members of the club will not in any way interfere with railway working or material, nor be a nuisance or hindrance to their staff, nor, above all, trespass on railway property. You needed a 1/3d postal order and SAE with 41/2d stamp. How much have we lost. OTC Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: grahame on July 28, 2020, 15:00:59 There's always the Ian Allan Loco-spotters club that NR could revive, complete with badge (in six regional colours), membership card and solemn undertaking to obey this rule: Members of the club will not in any way interfere with railway working or material, nor be a nuisance or hindrance to their staff, nor, above all, trespass on railway property. You needed a 1/3d postal order and SAE with 41/2d stamp. How much have we lost. OTC The Rail Rider's Club - https://www.railriders.club/rail-riders-benefits - is back. But the point of the rail"card" was / is for train spotters who station themselves at - err - a station and do not ride. The new "Rail Riders" is for the John Cleese of this world, where the Ian Allan club was for the Ronnie Barkers. There's probably a club for the Ronnie Corbetts to stand on the street corner and watch the buses go by. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: stuving on July 28, 2020, 17:59:51 How much have we lost. OTC Yes - it's called the past. It does that all the time. Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: grahame on August 01, 2020, 09:40:41 A new group just started on FaceBook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1182062955503754/permalink/1182068055503244/ Quote RIGHTS FOR RAIL ENTHUSIASTS I have started this group because of on going issues at Swindon GWR station about being allowed on to the platforms to photo and spot trains (both before COVID19 and after) For me and other men and a few ladies going to your local station to see the trains is all some of them have to do in their senior years ,for me it is good for my well being and my mental heath plus a social event, This should be taken into account by the train companies when deciding the rules. Swindon had a manager who disliked rail enthusiasts;but she has now gone but things have not changed a great deal Of course the barriers are there to stop fraudulent travel but there are cameras all over if they want to keep an eye on us and if you break the rules you will be banned GWR Have a heart please !!! Title: Re: Petition - Railcard for train spotting? Post by: Rhydgaled on August 19, 2020, 20:48:11 The number of rail enthusiasts out to see the daily Class 80x Azumas at 0540 from Edinburgh Waverley and 1000 from London King's Cross really isn't a cause for concern. Has the northbound service had its name reinstated then? The last time I looked (some time ago now) only the 05:40 Edinburgh to London was marked as The Flying Scotsman on the timetable.Lateral thinking - existing railcards to be "smart" and include a platform ticket in their benefits - swipe in and out at gates. And a new railcard for those who don't othewise qualify - perhaps a slightly higher price than the normal ones - with the platform ticket / card withdrawn on misuse such as on travelling with a railcard but no ticket. Much better idea than having to pay for a platform ticket and useful for other things too.Any person has a right to access a station (except in emergency - terror/UXB/accident/etc). Then why are ticket barriers allowed? They imply that the only persons who have a right to access the platform are rail staff and passengers with a valid ticket.This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |