Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => Bristol (WECA) Commuters => Topic started by: TonyK on October 14, 2020, 05:44:22 pm



Title: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on October 14, 2020, 05:44:22 pm
As part of WRECA's latest road building project, Gipsy Patch Lane bridge is being replaced, with a range of service disruptions for anybody who is still going out.

(https://www.bing.com/images/blob?bcid=RIno2BnBIuoBpfJB2Th4RglD0Sgi.....98)

A larger version is available here. (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkMCRBhWsAE8Sad?format=jpg&name=large)

This does give rise to some opportunities to travel unusual routes for a day out.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 02, 2020, 08:29:51 pm
Latest from South Gloucestershire Council on Gipsy Patch Lane Bridge works....

Quote
"Despite detailed planning and preparation, our contractor, Network Rail has encountered a significant issue moving the new 4,260-tonne Gipsy Patch Lane bridge into place.

The bridge, which is already built, is being moved into position on a number of independent hydraulic transporters. Having successfully moved two thirds of the way into place the bridge transporters are now stuck.

Our focus, alongside Network Rail, is on resolving the issue so that the bridge can be moved into position. This is likely to take a number of days and will delay the re-opening of the mainline.

Rail services are still operating via alternative routes and rail replacement services."


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: stuving on November 02, 2020, 10:13:19 pm
The Delay Attribution Guide doesn't have a standard code for delays and cancellations  "due to the late arrival of a connecting bridge". Yet.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: Western Pathfinder on November 03, 2020, 08:12:42 am
It's the return of the Pilning Curse.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on November 03, 2020, 09:53:39 am
I think this is more likely to be the Curse of MetroBust. The BBC reports (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54781258?fbclid=IwAR1W3TqrDCOgSUauko60S9UkokBT8KwifruwirwKr9JSR8CL14e5yKyNs7w):
Quote
Lorries moving new railway bridge stuck in mud
Published16 hours ago

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/2DB1/production/_115179611_bfacaabc-e54c-45e6-bf4a-82e1200f6293.jpg)Specialist lorries carrying the 4,260 tonne bridge got stuck in mud

Lorries used to install a new railway bridge near Bristol have become stuck in mud.

Engineers constructed the replacement bridge near to an existing one on Gipsy Patch Lane in Little Stoke.

It was due to be lifted and moved into place over the weekend, but the BBC understands specialist lorries carrying the 4,260 tonne structure got stuck in mud after a roadway collapsed.

Rail journeys from Bristol to Wales may now be further disrupted.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/16631/production/_115179619_e46de0e9-85ee-4d72-a3f0-c8d05e0273fc.jpg)
Contractors are now bringing in extra engineers
The railway line is currently closed and Network Rail said prior to the weekend it was due to reopen next Saturday.

The bridge was originally due to be replaced at Easter but work was halted due to the coronavirus pandemic.

It is being replaced as part of the expansion of Bristol's Metrobus network into South Gloucestershire.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/C9F1/production/_115179615_google.png)
IMAGE COPYRIGHTGOOGLE
The old bridge is due to be replaced to allow a wider roadway underneath

A South Gloucestershire Council spokesman said: "Despite detailed planning and preparation, our contractor, Network Rail, has encountered a significant issue moving the new 4,260-tonne Gipsy Patch Lane bridge into place.

"The bridge, which is already built, is being moved into position on a number of independent hydraulic transporters.

"Having successfully moved two thirds of the way into place the bridge transporters are now stuck.

"Our focus, alongside Network Rail, is on resolving the issue so that the bridge can be moved into position. This is likely to take a number of days and will delay the reopening of the mainline."

Bus replacement services are currently operating between Bristol Parkway and Newport.

I love the spin-doctor quote: "Having successfully moved two thirds of the way..." This is the sort of Comical Ali outfit that, if someone's parachute failed to open, would report "Having safely covered the first 9,999 feet..."

If anyone has any useful ideas on how to sort this one out, I am sure NR's contractor Alun Griffiths would love to hear them.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: stuving on November 03, 2020, 10:34:49 am
Hmm... "Contractors are now bringing in extra engineers" - very strong ones? Wouldn't extra wheels and jacks be more use?

And I hope they remember that concrete structures don't tolerate uneven stresses, so have to be supported in their correct shape or else they can crack up.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on November 03, 2020, 12:35:14 pm
Hmm... "Contractors are now bringing in extra engineers" - very strong ones? Wouldn't extra wheels and jacks be more use?

And I hope they remember that concrete structures don't tolerate uneven stresses, so have to be supported in their correct shape or else they can crack up.

I expect that they have a spare on standby.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: stuving on November 03, 2020, 12:49:50 pm
Hmm... "Contractors are now bringing in extra engineers" - very strong ones? Wouldn't extra wheels and jacks be more use?

And I hope they remember that concrete structures don't tolerate uneven stresses, so have to be supported in their correct shape or else they can crack up.

Rereading that, doesn't what I said about structures apply just as well to engineers?


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on November 03, 2020, 04:56:21 pm
Rereading that, doesn't what I said about structures apply just as well to engineers?

First one to crack up gets fired.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on November 05, 2020, 11:00:37 am
Interesting that GWR's website is currently stating:

"Live network updates

Good service on most of our network
Most trains across the GWR network are running on time at the moment. Use our Journeycheck tool to check your journey

Last updated: 10:57"

So a bus in and out of Wales may be a bit of a surprise for some Bristol travellers.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on November 05, 2020, 06:02:26 pm
Interesting that GWR's website is currently stating:

"Live network updates

Good service on most of our network
Most trains across the GWR network are running on time at the moment. Use our Journeycheck tool to check your journey

Last updated: 10:57"

So a bus in and out of Wales may be a bit of a surprise for some Bristol travellers.


The buses have been timetabled for the whole of the possession. There no trains listed in RTT between Temple Meads and South Wales, and services between Newport and Parkway are shown as buses. The same is true for tomorrow. The problem will be from Saturday, if that bridge isn't put into place, the track relaid, wires put back up and generally sorted out. I don't know how that is going - the local press has been somewhat silent on the matter.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on November 06, 2020, 12:06:36 pm
Looks like some progress....

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2020/11/06/six-wagons-and-a-dozer-free-4250t-bridge-from-the-mud/ (https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2020/11/06/six-wagons-and-a-dozer-free-4250t-bridge-from-the-mud/)



Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 06, 2020, 01:56:18 pm
From The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54838365)

Quote
No date has been set for the reopening of a railway near Bristol after transporters moving a new bridge became bogged down in mud.

The 4,260-tonne bridge was due to be moved into place last weekend at Gipsy Patch Lane in Little Stoke, but it is stuck 40m (130 ft) away.

The line was originally due to reopen on Saturday.

Engineers are working to reinforce the roadway as part of the "highly complex engineering project", a council said.
A spokesperson for South Gloucestershire Council said: "Having encountered a significant issue, Network Rail and its contractor, Alun Griffiths, are continuing to work around the clock to resolve the issue and currently undertaking detailed work on site so that the bridge can be moved into position.

"Until this part of the main line is able to reopen, Network Rail will continue working with train operators to get those passengers who still need to travel by train to where they need to go, either on diverted services, or via the rail replacement buses operating between Bristol and Newport."

With the bridge due to be moved into place last weekend, some six days were allowed to reconnect everything before the re-opening tomorrow.   

From the pictures, and other posts, I understand it's been pulled back away from the railway now to allow the path/road down which it's going to come into place to be strengthened ... and when that's done it can (hopefully) be rolled in. Let's guess Sunday at the earliest, then a double-speed reconnection at 3 rather than 6 days, so perhaps open again midweek at the earliest?   And advances on that guess??


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on November 06, 2020, 03:06:19 pm
Let's look at what this all really means.

Quote
Engineers are working to reinforce the roadway as part of the "highly complex engineering project", a council said.
We didn't see this coming - S Glos Council

Quote
A spokesperson for South Gloucestershire Council said: "Having encountered a significant issue, Network Rail and its contractor, Alun Griffiths, are continuing to work around the clock to resolve the issue and currently undertaking detailed work on site so that the bridge can be moved into position.
It's not our fault - they should have seen this coming - S Glos Council

Quote
"Until this part of the main line is able to reopen, Network Rail will continue working with train operators to get those passengers who still need to travel by train to where they need to go, either on diverted services, or via the rail replacement buses operating between Bristol and Newport."
Can't see what the fuss is about. It's only a railway, and buses are much better.



Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 07, 2020, 07:39:12 am
The buses have been timetabled for the whole of the possession. There no trains listed in RTT between Temple Meads and South Wales, and services between Newport and Parkway are shown as buses. The same is true for tomorrow. The problem will be from Saturday ...

Many regular members take a quick look at the top-of-page graphic when they visit the Coffee Shop to give a quick, geographic overview of what's going on.     Never seen it quite this plastered with red and maroon before:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/overrunnove20.jpg)

But, yet, with the lockdown in Wales lasting another couple of days, and the lockdown in England having started a couple of days ago, passenger numbers will be at their lowest and it's probably one of the better times in the calendar to have an overrun.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on November 07, 2020, 09:13:38 am
Notwithstanding the fact the line should have been opened to-day, GWR are still (Saturday) stating:

"Live network updates

Good service on most of our network

Most trains across the GWR network are running on time at the moment. Use our tool to check your journey
Last updated: 09:06"

This is despite the fact that Journeycheck is showing 32 Train Cancellations and 85 Other Train Service Updates (as per the top of page graphic).

I make no apology about going on about this.  If you're going to have a website that gives out information, you should make sure that there are systems in place to make sure the information is accurate.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: bobm on November 07, 2020, 09:23:59 am
This is where the automatic and regimented structure of the railway's public information systems only serve to confuse.

The majority of Paddington to Swansea trains leaving Paddington at XX.48 have been replaced by trains at XX.18 to give them the extra running time via Kemble.  Journeycheck shows these as cancelled train at XX.48 and an additional train at XX.18 - thereby making the problem look twice as bad as it is.

Also, strangely, there is no mention of the issue under Line Updates which would help to put things in context.

There have also been some strange entries on services coming from Swansea

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/swajc.png)

This additional train was already in the timetable but with different timings.   For some reason the times quoted down the left after Newport are for the train due to run an hour earlier.  The ones down the right are correct for that train and near enough what it achieved.  Even so if it was 34 minutes late at Swindon it wasn't on time by Reading - you can't have it both ways!


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 07, 2020, 09:45:54 am
I make no apology about going on about this.  If you're going to have a website that gives out information, you should make sure that there are systems in place to make sure the information is accurate.

The system works very well when the trains are all working very well, and copes too when there are a handful of loos issues / formation changes / perhaps a diagram cancelled due to a train failure.

When big changes bring big disruption, it fails to present the information clearly or at times even correctly - the very time it would be at its most useful.   You are correct in making no apology for repeating your concerns.   There is a need for the railway to provide proper services and correct information at all times, but sadly we see something of the opposite in a move towards a "fair weather railway" - good when it's working, but not standing up too well when it has to handle unexpected issues.

I will add one caveat - the operational staff on the ground are - for the most part - aware of the various problems and will go over and above to sort out issues and keep customers moving.  Many staff elsewhere do their best to help too but are constrained by systems that aren't coping, or too complex, or a lack of knowledge; a few are "jobsworths" or so far removed from the customers that they think of the customers as a necessary evil, and / or as the "great unwashed" / "great uninformed".


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 07, 2020, 09:50:48 am
The buses have been timetabled for the whole of the possession. There no trains listed in RTT between Temple Meads and South Wales, and services between Newport and Parkway are shown as buses. The same is true for tomorrow. The problem will be from Saturday ...

Many regular members take a quick look at the top-of-page graphic when they visit the Coffee Shop to give a quick, geographic overview of what's going on.     Never seen it quite this plastered with red and maroon before:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/overrunnove20.jpg)

But, yet, with the lockdown in Wales lasting another couple of days, and the lockdown in England having started a couple of days ago, passenger numbers will be at their lowest and it's probably one of the better times in the calendar to have an overrun.

It's bad, but it's been much worse on BBQ Sundays.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: bobm on November 07, 2020, 10:06:45 am
Disruption set to continue until Monday 16th November.

Services diverting via Gloucester apart from tomorrow and Sunday 15th.   On those days there will only be the bus replacement between Bristol Parkway and Newport.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 07, 2020, 11:21:30 am
Many regular members take a quick look at the top-of-page graphic when they visit the Coffee Shop to give a quick, geographic overview of what's going on.     Never seen it quite this plastered with red and maroon before:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/overrunnove20.jpg)

It's all very Jackson Pollock.  :)


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 09, 2020, 07:34:39 am
Today's map looks much cleaner ... not because the line has been restored, but because the railway planners have now had time to plan in the changes due to the engineering overrun, so that our data feed treats buses from Parkway to Newport as normal.

Short, sharp lockdown in Wales is completed ... lockdown in England remains underway through from an exercise from home trip on Friday, I would not describe it as "sharp" here.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on November 09, 2020, 09:10:12 am
I accept that the journey disruptions around Patchway are now timetabled in, but that doesn't alter the fact that journeys are disrupted.

So for GWR to say that there is a "Good service on our network" is not helpful.  They should be saying something like:

"Travel through the Severn Tunnel [say that and not Patchway, as no-one knows where that is] to and from South Wales is disrupted.  Buses are running between Bristol Parkway and Newport, and some long distance trains to and from London Paddington are being diverted.  In both cases journey times will increase: please use our tool to check your journey"

This actually tells prospective travellers something helpful, unlike the current message which is misleading. 

If you want to provide a decent real time information system it needs some real time human involvement.  You can't always drive it off the timetable and other IT systems. 


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 09, 2020, 12:22:00 pm
From Twitter (@GWRHelp) - noting "Until further notice".

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/allweekgone.jpg)


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: stuving on November 09, 2020, 03:49:19 pm
I accept that the journey disruptions around Patchway are now timetabled in, but that doesn't alter the fact that journeys are disrupted.

So for GWR to say that there is a "Good service on our network" is not helpful.  They should be saying something like:

"Travel through the Severn Tunnel [say that and not Patchway, as no-one knows where that is] to and from South Wales is disrupted.  Buses are running between Bristol Parkway and Newport, and some long distance trains to and from London Paddington are being diverted.  In both cases journey times will increase: please use our tool to check your journey"

This actually tells prospective travellers something helpful, unlike the current message which is misleading. 

If you want to provide a decent real time information system it needs some real time human involvement.  You can't always drive it off the timetable and other IT systems. 

I think you're wrong about that flag message of "Good service on most of our network" - it's meant to be a one-liner to put at the edge of a page or display, and tell you whether today's service is running as expected overnight. It's expected these days that a few trains will be delayed or even cancelled, but you'd be unlucky of one affected you.

Changes or disruptions are inherently confusing, and once you set out you don't want to be alarmed by warnings of a "change" that isn't one as you already knew of it before today. Of course there can be changes  to changes, and that calls for very clear labelling - bobm's example earlier of this thread is an example of that going wrong: confusing changes from planned to altered with those from altered to altered again.

The longer message belongs somewhere else, and if you look in some somewhere elses there already is one. However, there is a big issue with how the extension of this work is shown on the gwr.com web site. If you can find "Planned engineering", the "Bristol" works are shown as "ongoing". But looking under "Planned Improvements", or any of the calendar-based data, shows nothing - presumably because its original end date has passed. Now, they can't have it both ways - either it was timetabled, in which case it should show up as "planned", or it wasn't, in which case it's a disruption of some kind.

Perhaps they think "everyone looks at Twitter" so the web site doesn't matter any more - in which case they'd not be the only ones.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: rogerw on November 12, 2020, 12:29:54 pm
GWR now stating until 23rd November


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 12, 2020, 01:54:16 pm
GWR now stating until 23rd November

One wonders, a little tongue in cheek, why GWR don't use replacement buses for just the short distance from Bristol Parkway to Pilning ... which after all is still open, and has an honourable history of emergency and engineering use, and has crossover facilities.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 12, 2020, 02:54:54 pm
GWR now stating until 23rd November

Indeed ... JourneyCheck reports:

Quote
Between Bristol Parkway and Newport South Wales

Planned engineering work will take place between Bristol Parkway and Newport South Wales from 09:00, Tuesday 10 November 2020 to 02:00, Monday 23 November 2020.

Additional Information
Buses will replace trains between Bristol Parkway and Newport. Train services will run to an amended timetable between Swansea / Cardiff Central and Newport, Bristol Parkway and Portsmouth Harbour, Bristol Temple Meads and Weston-super-Mare, Taunton and beyond and between Bristol Parkway and Worcester Shrub Hill.

"Planned engineering work" I notice ... yeah, bit of last minute planning when the original plans fell apart  ;D


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: stuving on November 12, 2020, 03:20:48 pm
GWR now stating until 23rd November

Indeed ... JourneyCheck reports:

Quote
Between Bristol Parkway and Newport South Wales

Planned engineering work will take place between Bristol Parkway and Newport South Wales from 09:00, Tuesday 10 November 2020 to 02:00, Monday 23 November 2020.

Additional Information
Buses will replace trains between Bristol Parkway and Newport. Train services will run to an amended timetable between Swansea / Cardiff Central and Newport, Bristol Parkway and Portsmouth Harbour, Bristol Temple Meads and Weston-super-Mare, Taunton and beyond and between Bristol Parkway and Worcester Shrub Hill.

"Planned engineering work" I notice ... yeah, bit of last minute planning when the original plans fell apart  ;D

Surely the work being done now was planned. It just wasn't planned for it to be done now.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on November 12, 2020, 03:52:53 pm
Surely the work being done now was planned. It just wasn't planned for it to be done now.

There's a job waiting for you at MetroBust, in the propaganda public relations department!


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 12, 2020, 06:01:44 pm
GWR now stating until 23rd November

The words "at least" have started to appear too ... didn't see them in the earlier posts, but they may have been in some of them.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on November 12, 2020, 06:51:10 pm
Oh dear.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: Timmer on November 14, 2020, 12:20:57 pm
The crazy thing is this work has absolutely nothing to do with improving the railway whatsoever. The only saving grace is this huge overrun occurred during lockdown. Scant consolation if you rely on trains in the area to get to work of course.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on November 14, 2020, 01:18:41 pm
The crazy thing is this work has absolutely nothing to do with improving the railway whatsoever. The only saving grace is this huge overrun occurred during lockdown. Scant consolation if you rely on trains in the area to get to work of course.

Absolutely right. There was a perfectly good railway running over an absolutely adequate bridge before all this began. The Western Super Mayor (? Bignosemac) decided that the best way to improve public transport was to build a much wider road MetroBust route following the railway line between Parkway and Filton Airfield, thence to Cribbs Causeway, and it seems to have gone downhill since. When it finally opens to traffic, cars will be able to get stuck at the traffic light junction with the A38, a few hundred metres further on, much more quickly than they could before.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 14, 2020, 04:28:51 pm
The crazy thing is this work has absolutely nothing to do with improving the railway whatsoever. The only saving grace is this huge overrun occurred during lockdown. Scant consolation if you rely on trains in the area to get to work of course.

From the Stoke Gifford Journal ... http://www.stokegiffordjournal.co.uk/2020/11/08/gipsy-patch-lane-mega-bridge-move-trouble-soft-ground/ - a long and many-time-extended article ... latest news:

Quote
BRIDGE LANDED: After being "stuck" for 15 days, the replacement railway bridge at Gipsy Patch Lane was (we believe) successfully moved into its intended position this morning (Saturday 14th November 2020).

Before you get too excited, a reminder that the road under the bridge isn't due to reopen to motor vehicles until July 2021, with associated highway works continuing until the end of 2022.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: ellendune on November 21, 2020, 01:16:35 pm
Found this video of the bridge onTwitter (https://twitter.com/i/status/1330132517689683972)


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on November 21, 2020, 01:48:26 pm
To look at that video, one could could be forgiven for thinking that the line will reopen on Monday. Here's hoping for the best. It has been a pretty mammoth job, when all is said and done.


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: grahame on November 22, 2020, 11:37:29 pm
From Wilts and Gloucestershire Standard (https://www.wiltsglosstandard.co.uk/news/18889884.network-rail-boss-apologises-bridge-bristol-nears-completion/)

Quote
The director of Network Rail has apologised to train commuters for 'inconveniencing them longer than they should have' with the installation of a new railway bridge in Bristol.

Tomorrow, train passengers are expected to finally be able to use the rail service that has called disruption to services between Bristol and Wales as the installation of a new bridge nears completion.

The installation in Gypsy patch Lane has been plagued by delays after initially being halted due to the coronavrius pandemic and then a significant engineering issue pushed the installation further back.


Network Rail director Mike Gallop made a statement at the site today, he said:"We have had some significant problems at this site but we are now in the final stages of bringing the railway back to life.

"Its been a huge logistical and technical challenge and our teams and contractor teams have been working day and night to get the railway open.

"Im pleased to confirm we are going to open the railway on Monday.

"On behalf of Network Rail, I would like to say thank you for your patience, to local resident who have been affected by our works and to the travelling public who, I am afraid we have inconvenienced longer than we should, please accept my apologies."


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: Timmer on November 23, 2020, 07:07:05 am
Services have resumed this morning:
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1330756790406041600?s=21


Title: Re: Disruption October - November 2020
Post by: TonyK on November 24, 2020, 09:42:35 am
Services have resumed this morning:
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1330756790406041600?s=21

I love the "- thanks for your patience". Like we have patience.



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