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Sideshoots - associated subjects => Campaigns for new and improved services => Topic started by: grahame on October 29, 2020, 09:03:44



Title: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: grahame on October 29, 2020, 09:03:44
Starting a separate thread on this ...

"Mid Cornwall Metro" is about linking Newquay, St Austell, Truro and Falmouth.  Cornwall Council also want to look at what's next for the Falmouth line.  It doesn't include Burngullow - it's just too expensive for now.

The Newquay proposals are about the capacity improvements needed to increase frequency on the existing line with an hourly service being the ultimate objective - reinstating a second platform at Newquay in the mix. 

Mid Cornwall Metro - preliminary works tender awarded (land investigation, reports, etc)

From https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2020/10/28-upgrade-scheme-unveiled-for-cornish.html

Quote
NETWORK RAIL has been awarded a tender by Cornwall Council for a scheme to upgrade the railway network in central Cornwall, which would mean improving the infrastructure on the Newquay branch and introducing through services between Newquay, St Austell, Truro and Falmouth under the title of Mid-Cornwall Metro.

The two bodies are now set to enter into a Development Services Agreement to work on the proposed scheme. It would be carried out during Control Period 6, which starts in 2024, and could be achieved alongside signalling upgrades. The Bid Notice says: ?The greater Newquay area is seeing a growth in demand for new homes and a number of major developments, with the railway having the potential to be part of the transport solution. It can connect four of the major centres in Cornwall ? Falmouth, Truro, St Austell and Newquay, and provide access to sustainable transport.?

The work will include design, survey and ground investigations, along with feasibility reports and cost estimates. Network Rail will appoint the subcontractors.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: Andy on October 29, 2020, 13:33:23
Good news. They always forget Penryn (aka "Shagtown*") in their reports.As the railhead for Tremough Campus it already contributes significant traffic to the branch and would most likely provide a decent traffic flow to/from Newquay.

* I don't know whether the name originates from the seabirds or activities between sailors at the port and local businesswomen.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: smokey on October 29, 2020, 14:34:04
Best option really would be to rebuild the Newquay to Chasewater line which ran through Perranporth, and run through services from Newquay to Falmouth reversing at Truro.
It was said back in the 1960's that BR shut the wrong Newquay line.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: Andy on October 29, 2020, 15:06:35
Best option really would be to rebuild the Newquay to Chasewater line which ran through Perranporth, and run through services from Newquay to Falmouth reversing at Truro.
It was said back in the 1960's that BR shut the wrong Newquay line.

Quite a lot of the trackbed of that line (from Perranporth towards Newquay) is earmarked to become part of a cycle trail network.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: grahame on October 29, 2020, 20:15:09
It was said back in the 1960's that BR shut the wrong Newquay line.

Not the only case of a surprise as to which line remained open.     Whitby ...


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: Oxonhutch on October 30, 2020, 09:31:50
Not the only case of a surprise as to which line remained open.     Whitby ...

Blackpool North


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: RailCornwall on November 04, 2020, 20:52:55
I'd dread to calculate the cost of rebuilding Chacewater - Newquay to 2020 standards. The CPOs would cost a bomb for the trackbed rights alone.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: chopper1944 on November 05, 2020, 15:48:39
St. Austell to Newquay via St. Dennis?


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: RailCornwall on November 05, 2020, 19:37:56
The whole trackbed, from Burngullow to the A30 would need relaying to carry passenger trains on that line too.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: AMLAG on November 05, 2020, 20:40:50
Where do you get that from ?
There are stretches of modern CWR on this branch.

One of the significant costs when this scheme was mooted 40 yrs or so ago was the cost
of signalling alterations etc. because of the many Ground Frames / hand points serving clay dries etc off the single line between Burngullow and Parkandillack.

Today there is just Treviscoe and Parkandillack and for how much longer is anybody's guess.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: Mark A on June 18, 2022, 11:16:20
The Mid Cornwall Metro proposal has received further funding...

https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/20219652.funding-mid-cornwall-metro-falmouth-newquay/

Mark


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: Jamsdad on June 18, 2022, 12:34:02
Good news. Newquay needs a more regular and faster service. The success of the increased capacity on the Falmouth branch shows what could be achieved.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: REVUpminster on June 19, 2022, 07:03:41
I've always thought GWR are frightened to increase services on the branches because they could not cope with the demand. Okehampton, maybe forced their hand.

Metro needs a minimum half hour service as Exmouth, Paignton, Falmouth, and St Ives prove. The Honiton line should have been half hour years ago.

Apparently 15 minutes is the golden time for growth. Exmouth have wanted that for along time but need another passing loop.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: grahame on June 19, 2022, 07:31:16
I've always thought GWR are frightened to increase services on the branches because they could not cope with the demand. Okehampton, maybe forced their hand.

Metro needs a minimum half hour service as Exmouth, Paignton, Falmouth, and St Ives prove. The Honiton line should have been half hour years ago.

Apparently 15 minutes is the golden time for growth. Exmouth have wanted that for along time but need another passing loop.

As I understand it, the extra traffic would be there in many places but it would have been unprofitable traffic in the franchise, made the more so by long lead time and expensive infrastructure improvements - so was very much down to government or LTAs rather than GWR and the franchise system.

Compared to Intercity cash cows, metro services in the region are shorter trains (more paths and staff needed), slower (so fewer miles done per seat, looking at cost per journey), lower market charge per mile possible (need to compete with buses), and train stopped for a far higher proportion of the time (so revenue earning with the wheels turning much less).  Journeys are shorter, so fares lower and cost of collecting fares proportionately much higher.  Nah - if I were running a franchise and had a mixture of intercity and local, from a commercial viewpoint I would be saying "get those local trains out of the way of my expresses". Come to think of it, didn't someone at First get quoted as saying that a decade or two back?



Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: Sulis John on June 19, 2022, 10:23:44
"Good news. Newquay needs a more regular and faster service. The success of the increased capacity on the Falmouth branch shows what could be achieved."

Indeed - some Falmouth services yesterday were reminiscent of urban rush-hour services. However, the tale of woe that greeted anyone trying to use branch line services to Gunnislake or Looe yesterday suggests that the first goal needs to be ensuring that resources are there to ensure / guarantee that the existing advertised service actually runs (and by "advertised service" I mean the service advertised as available when people are making plans several weeks in advance not "the service advertised online at 22.00 the previous evening"!)

Don't know why the first bit doesn't show as the quote it actually is!


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: RichardB on June 19, 2022, 12:55:11
"Good news. Newquay needs a more regular and faster service. The success of the increased capacity on the Falmouth branch shows what could be achieved."

Indeed - some Falmouth services yesterday were reminiscent of urban rush-hour services. However, the tale of woe that greeted anyone trying to use branch line services to Gunnislake or Looe yesterday suggests that the first goal needs to be ensuring that resources are there to ensure / guarantee that the existing advertised service actually runs (and by "advertised service" I mean the service advertised as available when people are making plans several weeks in advance not "the service advertised online at 22.00 the previous evening"!)

Don't know why the first bit doesn't show as the quote it actually is!

Looe and Gunnislake have been running pretty well recently so I had a look at Real Time Trains for yesterday and see what you are talking about - not a good day at all on those lines.   Friday perfect - yesterday not.

Look forward to hearing what yesterday's announcement means in terms of next steps.  It's certainly good news though.

Interesting to see that Heathfield isn't being taken forward.  There have been some interesting things coming from some well placed sources recently.  Clearly not enough of a runner.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: AMLAG on June 19, 2022, 15:37:26
Newquay to Falmouth is about 25 miles by main roads and takes about 50 mins. and longer by direct bus; whereas even a through train would take about 2 hours.

Resurrection of a past scheme to divert the Newquay to Par service to St Austell by reopening just 2 miles of former railway between St Dennis Jn and Parkandillack and thence via the now mostly relaid with CWR line but only now used by just two clay trains a week line to Burngullow Jn, would be far quicker for a through Newquay/Falmouth service, reduce (even halt ?) the decline of St Austell; why is everything centred on Truro ?!
It would mean closure of the line between St Dennis and Goonbarrow and the little used stations of Roche, Bugle and  Luxulyan, avoid further track renewals etc on this stretch and potentially save £millions in resignalling St Blazey and Goonbarrow.
The long term future of the declining clay industry in Cornwall is uncertain and thus with no railway between Par and St Dennis an opportunity could exist for creation of a multi use trail.



Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: onthecushions on June 19, 2022, 17:45:02

I would have thought that the "Metro" idea would have longer legs if it concentrated on the route that rail can serve effectively, i.e Falmouth to Truro, St Austell and points East.

Newquay is about on the same Longitude as Truro, being due North, so is truly  a "great way round" by train, even (at present) from St Austell.  Lostwithiel and even Bodmin are however quite direct.

The heritage line would not have to increase its services much to give a year round connection to the General station.

Have I missed something?

OTC


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: REVUpminster on June 20, 2022, 08:22:20
Heathfield not being taken forward is understandable as all the new housing is being built between the A382 and A383  and Wolborough well away from the Heathfield Line.
GWR still sends the odd empty coaching stock past signal 706 to keep a small stretch operational.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: johnneyw on June 20, 2022, 11:09:29
Heathfield not being taken forward is understandable as all the new housing is being built between the A382 and A383  and Wolborough well away from the Heathfield Line.
GWR still sends the odd empty coaching stock past signal 706 to keep a small stretch operational.

I'm guessing that for now at least, NR (or GBR) will just continue to cooperate with the current Heath Rail Link group to further their aims of getting a combined commuter/heritage/general service running.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: RichardB on June 20, 2022, 20:24:19
Heathfield not being taken forward is understandable as all the new housing is being built between the A382 and A383  and Wolborough well away from the Heathfield Line.
GWR still sends the odd empty coaching stock past signal 706 to keep a small stretch operational.

I'm guessing that for now at least, NR (or GBR) will just continue to cooperate with the current Heath Rail Link group to further their aims of getting a combined commuter/heritage/general service running.

Given there is no prospect of funding for the time being, I'm sure people will be polite but it won't go anywhere.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: RailCornwall on August 06, 2022, 13:29:22
More details including extended platforms at Falmouth Docks and Falmouth Town and a passing loop on the Newquay Branch were released this week following an application for funding being issued

https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/20598820.mid-cornwall-metro-now-56-8m-rail-scheme-levelling-fund/

Ambitious isn't the word considering the estimate for completion is 2025.



Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: infoman on August 07, 2022, 11:18:43
any indication of where the passing loop on the Newquay branch will be?


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: grahame on August 07, 2022, 11:46:11
any indication of where the passing loop on the Newquay branch will be?

Don't know ... but for a 30 minute service you would need a loop at St Columb Road and to retain and use the one at Goonbarrow Junction.  Is it double from St Blazey around to Par?  Turn around at Newquay would need to be slick too; it will be interesting to see if the proposals include retaining through trains to / from east of Plymouth with the significant risk of disruption if there are cows on the line at Crofton or a shortage of drivers means the London train has had to call at Pewsey and Westbury.   Inputs / comments welcomed please - I am not as informed on this project and I suspect other readers may not be either!


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: RichardB on August 07, 2022, 13:48:20
any indication of where the passing loop on the Newquay branch will be?

Don't know ... but for a 30 minute service you would need a loop at St Columb Road and to retain and use the one at Goonbarrow Junction.  Is it double from St Blazey around to Par?  Turn around at Newquay would need to be slick too; it will be interesting to see if the proposals include retaining through trains to / from east of Plymouth with the significant risk of disruption if there are cows on the line at Crofton or a shortage of drivers means the London train has had to call at Pewsey and Westbury.   Inputs / comments welcomed please - I am not as informed on this project and I suspect other readers may not be either!

Hourly service on the Newquay branch, Graham.   Still half-hourly on the Falmouth line.  Yes, the proposal includes retaining through long distance services - indeed the plan is to be able to reintroduce local trains on Summer Saturdays in addition to the long distance ones.  Second platform at Newquay will be vital.  I believe the loop will be in the St Dennis Junction area and Goonbarrow Jn loop will stay.  The Levelling Up Fund bid is in addition to the Restoring Your Railway one - "belt and braces".


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: RailCornwall on August 07, 2022, 18:23:47
I'm assuming that the promised 'Capacity increase' on the Falmouth line is to be achieved by moving up to three carriage services on the MCM. The Platform enhancements at the two Falmouth Stations infer that. Falmouth Town will be tricky to complete without juggling things a bit. I believe Perranwell and Penmere would cope well with three cars and of course Penryn was so designed in the 2000's work.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: RichardB on August 08, 2022, 07:54:05
I'm assuming that the promised 'Capacity increase' on the Falmouth line is to be achieved by moving up to three carriage services on the MCM. The Platform enhancements at the two Falmouth Stations infer that. Falmouth Town will be tricky to complete without juggling things a bit. I believe Perranwell and Penmere would cope well with three cars and of course Penryn was so designed in the 2000's work.

Yes, that's right.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: RailCornwall on August 08, 2022, 17:36:50
Getting a 'regular' service considering GWML and Regional services on the Truro - Par section would seem difficult currently, let alone a clockface one. Some consideration towards a lift at Truro (where?) is also needed as I can't see the Newquay bound trains using platform 2 and there's no simple disabled access from platform 3. Additionally the old post gate adjacent to platform 1 should be reopened for convenient access to the P&R service into the City.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: FarWestJohn on August 08, 2022, 19:20:50
I still cannot see the point of Falmouth to Newquay as is such a roundabout route that the bus beats it. I can see the need of improvements on the Newquay branch but I think the delays introduced to the present excellent Truro to Falmouth service would be a great risk to reliability. Even Newquay to Truro would not be very quick.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: grahame on August 08, 2022, 22:11:11
I still cannot see the point of Falmouth to Newquay as is such a roundabout route that the bus beats it. I can see the need of improvements on the Newquay branch but I think the delays introduced to the present excellent Truro to Falmouth service would be a great risk to reliability. Even Newquay to Truro would not be very quick.


There may be limited end to end traffic but there are probably significant trafics across all intermediate points, so the joining is natural. I suspect that not many people on the 06:35 off Holyhead are bound for Maesteg, or on the 08:20 for Aberdeen are headed to Plymouth.  Hourly services from Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central don't start from PMH loaded with significant traffic to CDF.


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: AMLAG on August 08, 2022, 22:51:41

Newquay to Falmouth …The Cornish Zig Zag Rail route !


Title: Re: Mid Cornwall Metro
Post by: RichardB on January 18, 2023, 23:00:22
Announced today - the Levelling Up Fund bid for Mid Cornwall Metro has been successful.  £49,995,000 coming.



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