Great Western Coffee Shop

1st November 2020 - we're almost certain to have a lockdown in ENGLAND from 5th November 2020 to at least 2nd December 2020.   I will link add general advise to this thread as details become clear, and link it from out home page

Keep safe, everyone!

From www.gov.uk (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november) (I and NOT putting quote tags around this to keep it easier to read).   This is section 11 of a very long document full of rules and data.

You should avoid travelling in or out of your local area, and you should look to reduce the number of journeys you make. However you can and should still travel for a number of reasons, including:

* travelling to work where this cannot be done from home
* travelling to education and for caring responsibilities
* hospital GP and other medical appointments or visits where you have had an accident or are concerned about your health
* visiting venues that are open, including essential retail
* exercise, if you need to make a short journey to do so

If you need to travel we encourage you to walk or cycle where possible, and to plan ahead and avoid busy times and routes on public transport. This will allow you to practise social distancing while you travel.

Overnight stays and holidays away from primary residences will not be allowed. This includes holidays abroad and in the UK. It also means you cannot stay in a second home, if you own one, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with. There are specific exceptions, for example if you need to stay away from home (including in a second home) for work purposes, but this means people cannot travel overseas or within the UK, unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons.

You must not travel if you are experiencing any coronavirus symptoms, are self-isolating as a result of coronavirus symptoms, are sharing a household or support bubble with somebody with symptoms, or have been told to self-isolate after being contacted by NHS Test and Trace.

If you need to use public transport - to travel to work for example - you should follow the safer travel guidance. This includes the rules on wearing face masks and advice on car sharing.

For those planning to travel into England, you should check the current travel corridor list to see whether you need to isolate for 14 days. You will still be required to abide by the restrictions set out here even if you do not need to isolate. If you do need to travel overseas from England before 2 December (and are legally permitted to do so, for example, because it is for work), even if you are returning to a place you?ve visited before, you should look at the rules in place at your destination, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (FCDO) travel advice.

British nationals currently abroad do not need to return home immediately. However, you should check with your airline or travel operator on arrangements for returning.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out this time.

I am not advocating ignoring the rules by any means, but after the pranks of Dominic Cummings, Margaret Ferrier, Stanley Johnson and the like, who appear to think that the rules are there for everybpdy else and dont apply to them, I suspect levels of compliance will be lower than they were last time around

Awkward situation for the husband of a lifelong friend who's just died. They lived in Hastings where he currently is, sorting out the situation. She died in Torquay, where the funeral is due to take place later this month. He's not meant to travel to a "second home", though pedantically it wasn't his, but hers.  Five-hour drive between the two towns.

I've been trying to decide whether to go down by train or drive, but don't fancy relying on taxis to and from stations and I couldn't manage there-and-back by car in one day at this time of year. And I'm not meant to stay overnight away from home.

On the plus side, I'm allowed one person as a support bubble and the nominee has just moved from Southend to nearer me - though perhaps not close enough to meet the spirit of the directives.

There are going to be no magic answers - difficult individual cases where the broad brush of laws / rules cause real concerns. Depending on who you come across, most enforcers / people / organisations will by sympathetic and bend a little - but the worry is that the person travelling will come across a jobsworth somewhere.

Has he thought of getting in touch with the funeral group in Torquay, and asking if one of the other mourners could pick him up (duly masked) from the station and drop him back there?  People really come together at times like these and the comfort even of knowing you're in the same boat as a stranger might help.   The other (but expensive) alternative might be to take the train and hire a car for the day in the area.

If you don't fancy driving both ways in one day, you could hire a car to get you there and take the train back, or vice versa.

Quite a few car hire companies will do one way hires.

Thanks for the suggestions. Hastings to Torquay by train is a bit of a haul at the best of times and the widower is a former professional chauffeur, so used to driving. He'll need a car to move personal goods from one house to another.

I would find a hire car a challenge to get used to, and I would do more "touching" inside it than on a train. My  eyes are not good for night driving and I would have to leave before dawn to get to the crematorium. (And we're now getting weather forecasts warning of early-morning list.)

Other mourners - some of the same vulnerable age as I - are due to come from Essex and Farnham. TBH I'm waiting for the widower (himself aged 75) to acknowledge that it would be unwise for some of us to attend. A couple of my own friends have urged me not to go.

Very difficult for the widower: losing his wife, arranging the funeral etc, sorting out the estate, selling the Torquay house. Challenging at the best of times but now ...

I suspect that compliance will be very poor.
Significant numbers of people are planning to ignore or evade the restrictions.

Look at thenumber of raves, street parties and other illegal gatherings, that are illegal at present but are continueing.

I know of one large family who are going to meet for Christmas and believe that they have found a legal loophole to permit this.

I have offers from two friends to be my "support bubble" and admit to being tempted to accept both. Both know about each other and we've discussed the risks. One has just moved to a village to start a new life on her own and would benefit from my company as much as I would from hers. That apart, I shall have little trouble complying with the guidance,though shall mutter if I need something from a shop that is closed.

My plumber has confirmed that he can keep this Friday's appointment to service my boiler, which is in my garage. I think that this is allowed and in any case he won't be touching anything that I've touched recently and I won't be touching for some time anything that he's likely to touch.

(It would be a sad state of affairs if the usual winter-time problems with boilers, pipes etc can't be attended to.)

I think if it's work that needs doing to keep a boiler running, rather than an upgrade, it should count as essential work. I am not a lawyer nor have I studied the rules in detail.

Broadgage I hope this doesn't mean you're thinking of arranging a rave?

You should bear in mind that the crates of empty Port bottles afterwards will be a giveaway to the authorities as to who's responsible!   ;)

I have no intention of organising any illegal gathering, and I hope and expect to comply with the other rules.

No sphopping apart from home deliveries.
I expect to visit neighbours, but think that this is allowed. I will be the only visitor and we will meet outside, or if raining in an open sided gazebo.
Transport by horse* drawn cart, so in the open air and over 2 meters distant from the driver.

Vet visit booked for health check and vaccinations of pet cat, but booked for the day before the lockdown starts.

*Readers will be glad to know that it is a large strong horse.

I think we also need to bear in mind that, as a  news story, good news is not news. Were are hardly likelyto hear any stories in the media about people behaving themselves...

I suspect my views are similar to most, I am very angry about this if the government had done their job properly we would have never needed to do this. The South West has the lowest cases in the country yet is still being locked down ???

I will comply with it but I believe the tide is turning, Boris is running limited time and will be ousted sometimes next year.

Unfortunately in Cornwall we only have one main hospital, and this is beginning to slowly fill with C-19 cases.
Once this reaches a certain level, then routine operations and investigations will cease.

It's a beautiful County but only has one main hospital, and that must be protected.

Cases are now beginning to climb, even amongst remote villages, and this is concerning.

Unfortunately we're also seeing the knock-on effects in schools as staff isolate for tests.

Very true, I never got why Cornwall only has Treliske as it's only hospital there should be another one in Bodmin. However if you look at the worst areas of the country the Tier system was working.

Other parts of the Country (especially those in the Tier'd areas) all have more/several main hospitals to soak up the increased numbers.
Treliske has to segregate areas between C-19 & non C-19 areas, thus reducing bed space.
All the local hospitals (now mostly minor injury units) have been downgraded over the years, some closed.
Chickens now coming home to roost...........

I was at Treliske yesterday and there seemed to be an awful lot of building work going on.  I wonder if that is also having a temporary effect on capacity and the ability to ensure people moving around the site can keep their distance.

There are quite a few points to pick up on here!

Firstly, whilst it is beyond doubt that the government has not handled this particularly well, neither have almost all other governments in the world, and certainly in Europe and the Americas. They were all faced with a situation they have never experienced before, and there was bound to be an element of stumbling around in the dark. That is not to excuse it, but to put it in context.

I see that you are angry, and that of course is your prerogative, but I don?t know about your suggestion (I think ? the wording of your sentence makes it ambiguous to me) that most people are angry. Some will be; some will be resigned to it; others may be stoical about it, and I suspect many support it. I notice in the news yesterday that our national loudmouth Farage has decided to rebrand his Brexit Party as the Reform Party, pledged to oppose restrictions on freedom. My hunch is that he has backed a loser this time, but only time will tell. Whilst we don?t normally discuss politics on the forum I would be interested in the views of others on that topic.

I am a little surprised on a forum such as this to read, in essence, that Cornwall (or any other area to which it applies) shouldn?t be locked down because they have a low case rate in the area. The general public may not have worked out, but transport enthusiasts ought to have, that we have trains criss-crossing the country moving from high risk areas to low risk areas and back again umpteen times a day, and we also have a comprehensive road network on which people do the same thing on a daily basis.

To paraphrase an old objection to railway building in the 19th century, every damn virus in Manchester can be in Truro in half a day

The bulk of the building work is (unfortunately) for the new maternity unit.
I believe Cornwall was promised a new hospital, but I think it's just that.

Treliske had started to ramp up 'outpatient appointments/surgery' after a very slow start.
Suspect all those will all be placed on hold again.

It was one day last week that most of Cornwall's ambulances were queued waiting to transfer patients to A&E.
In normal times, A&E use the corridor as an overflow but that doesn't permit C-19 safe movement, so is not available.

We have ranged wide ...




.... and I may split this off into "Across the West" which has a subtitle "The West, but not The West's trains".

We live in a complex world of specialities - and it's all too easy for us to sit in our armchairs and criticise those who actually know far more than we do and have been deeply involved in the decisions.  At the same time, the complex world offers opportunities for those who are at the heart of things to balance things for their own interests.

As one of the admin team (an indeed as webmaster), I'm concerned to enable views to be explored rather than to use my position to press my own view for more than it's worth.

One of the ways to look at what and how people do things is to look at questions like "who influences him/her and how", "what motivates him/her" and "how does effect his/her pocket", also "does it help give and maintain his/her power" ... those in addition to "what is best for people".  For respected statesmen, "what is best for people" takes the upper hand, but they are far fewer between than's ideal and the way the job has developed, it's more likely that showmen than statesmen will be in the top roles.  Having said which, I do not envy anyone some of the decision and responsibilities that need to be shouldered at the moment. Sadly taking a wider look, there are a number amongst those with the responsibilities who when it comes down to it may be able to shrug off poor decisions that kill people, industries or the planet.

_{Edit: statement -> statesmen - RS}

Reference my dilemma about travelling to Torquay for a funeral (see above). This has been solved by the widower saying that I should not attend (his concern being for me, rather than others), though he did mention that two other friends in their seventies might be coming from Farnham - at least they can share the driving.

He is minded to have a get-together of friends in Torquay in the Spring, which does appeal to me. I suspect that train travel will still be unattractive then, but I don't mind a leisurely drive there and back in daylight, perhaps with a nap and refreshments on the way home.

I recognise this thread is in danger of turning into a "Members in Cornwall" debate, may I add a couple of points?

i) The people of Cornwall have THREE  major hospitals, Treliske, for people in the mid and west, Derriford (Plymouth) for us in the East, and Barnstaple for the folks of Bude and North Cornwall.

ii) Long distance rail travel is not going to happen over the next month. You can travel, but only for work and access to exercise, so I don't think there will be many people travelling down here from Liverpool just for the hell of it. And if they choose to get here they cant stay with friends, in hotels or in their second homes.

iii) If the rest of the country had the same Covid stats as Cornwall tjere would be no question of a lockdown.

For my part I shall be on the Looe branch next week to get some fish from Mrs Pengelly ( a permitted journey from Liskeard) and might well do a short trip down to St Keyne to walk back for my exercise!

I believe Barnstaple and Derriford are in Devon, as is Torbay Hospital and the Royal Devon and Exeter; they are not readily available for Cornish folk!

Is there a dispute over which goes on first, bandage or dressing?

Note the four day closure - from Cornwall Live (https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/liskeard-looe-plymouth-gunnislake-train-4667998)



 

You miss part of my point, not helped perhaps by my choice of Manchetsre and Bodmin as examples!

Whether or not people travel in or out of Cornwall, the trains themselvs will.

RTT tells me that today, as an example, Cornwall will see 10 through trains from Paddington, four from Bristol and an XC service that started off at Newcastle at 1139 this morning. I dont know the turms of duty that the staff work but they would have gone to and from at least Plymouth and possibly beyond. Who knows who they may unknowingly have been in contact with?

Furthermore if somebody withoui symptons just happened to use those trains from, say, London to Reading, or Bristol to Yatton, or Leeds to Wakefield, what unwanted little visitors might arrive on the seats or the toilet door handles and the like?

I accept that these things could happen whether there is a lockdown or not, but it does emohasise the point that no  area of the country can isolate itself from the rest of it without substanially more precautions that are not currently being considered

From GWR:

We're continuing to run our trains, so you can still travel in England and Wales in line with the latest Government advice relevant to your area
 
If you need to travel, our enhanced cleaning regimes and social distancing measures mean you can continue to travel by train with confidence.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/gwr_nov_20_guide.jpg)

Whilst most of those guidelines above will minimise the risk, they do not and cannot guarantee that every train will remain virus free during its journey, or that viruses will not cadge lifts from GWR or XC and all the rest.

That is why additional cleaning is being carried out

Contact transmission is negligable if you wash your hands and dont touch your face.

Stagecoach in Swindon have announced they are returning to an hourly service on Sundays on the S6 (Swindon to Oxford), 55 (Swindon to Chippenham) and 7 (Swindon to Highworth) for November.  Monday to Saturday times unchanged.