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Journey by Journey => Plymouth and Cornwall => Topic started by: bobm on November 12, 2020, 11:36:54 am



Title: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: bobm on November 12, 2020, 11:36:54 am
https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/planned-engineering/st-ives (https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/planned-engineering/st-ives)

Quote
From Monday 4 January to Sunday 7 February 2021:

buses will replace trains between St Erth and St Ives

buses will run every 30 minutes with all services calling at Carbis Bay. Services will also call hourly at Lelant

replacement buses will depart at different times to normal trains in order to connect with trains at St Erth


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on November 12, 2020, 01:10:47 pm
The linked article above talks about 5 weeks of track renewal work. Does anyone know how much of the branch is being re-layed?


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Jamsdad on November 13, 2020, 03:54:45 pm
In four week I would have thought they could relay a great deal. Although I have to say when I went down a few weeks ago there was very little sign of rough riding. But there are a lot of rather ancient looking wood sleepers in places


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RichardB on November 14, 2020, 01:18:28 pm
The linked article above talks about 5 weeks of track renewal work. Does anyone know how much of the branch is being re-layed?

One and a half miles, I believe.  A third of the branch.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on November 16, 2020, 11:07:27 pm
from the FAQs -

Where is the work taking place?
Network Rail will be working between Carbis Bay and St Ives to renew the track along that section of line.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on November 17, 2020, 07:46:44 am
Quote
Where is the work taking place?
Network Rail will be working between Carbis Bay and St Ives to renew the track along that section of line.
Quote

I walked the coastal path that follows the line back in August and I would say a lot of that stretch is made up of very old-looking wooden sleepers and non-continuous rails. Good to see the investment. I assume linespeeds will stay the same? (not above 30mph on the branch IIRC)


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on December 30, 2020, 07:24:10 pm
A little more detail from Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/12/cornwall-set-to-have-3m-track-upgrade-on-the-st-ives-bay-line.html?amp&fbclid=IwAR2lV0m_kbgSeVWA9h1slPjM-ttsrnBFZSerpKcmQpJjGmRgwNySQBXAzzE)

Quote
Cornwall set to have ?3m track upgrade on the St Ives Bay Line
Buses will replace trains while the work is carried out
 By Alan Holden

(https://www.railadvent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/St-Ives-Cornwall-Railway-Track-Renewal-work.jpg)
Credit: Network Rail
Work will start in the new year on upgrading the track between Carbis Bay and St Ives in a ?3m project by Network Rail.

In what has been described as the biggest track investment in Cornwall since the 1950s, Network Rail will be carrying out work over a 5 week period between Sunday the 3rd of January and Monday the 8th of February 2021

Around 1.5 miles of new track will be laid along with 3,600 new railway sleepers and over 400 tonnes of ballast.

While the work is being carried out, train operator Great Western Railway will be operating a half-hourly replacement bus service.

The bus will run between St Ives and St Erth and passengers are asked to plan ahead and check times before travelling.

Trains between Plymouth and Penzance will still run on the mainline while this improvement work takes place.

Lee Hildreth, Network Rail?s project manager, said: ?This is a huge piece of work, but it will make a real difference as it will reduce delays and improve reliability for passengers in Cornwall.?

?It is the biggest track upgrade for generations, and it has been planned so it can be done as safely and as quickly as possible.?

?However, buses will replace trains while the work is ongoing, so we urge passengers to check before they travel and thanks them in advance for their patience.?

Mark Chorley, GWR Regional Station Manager, West, said: ?We have been working hard to make sure that people can be confident to travel safely, and that includes running as many replacement buses as we can to make extra room, as well as enhanced cleaning and social distancing measures.?

?This work is important to ensure we can continue to maintain and improve reliability on this very popular and scenic branch line, and we thank customers for their patience in advance.?

Councillor Andrea Davis, chair of Peninsula Rail Task Force, said: ?At this time of uncertainty with the ongoing pandemic it is heartening that Network Rail is investing in the Cornish network, this substantial upgrade is very welcome and will give a much-needed boost to the far South West economy as we move to the recovery phase.?


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on December 30, 2020, 10:48:06 pm
The Logistics of this operation must be frightful. I presume almost all of the Car Park at the Station is being used at St Ives. Transporting heavy machinery to all sites of the work will be quite a task. 


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Electric train on December 31, 2020, 07:06:40 am
The Logistics of this operation must be frightful. I presume almost all of the Car Park at the Station is being used at St Ives. Transporting heavy machinery to all sites of the work will be quite a task. 

You will be surprised how little equipment is used that requires the use of car park type space.  The biggest demand will be the parking for the workforce and welfare facilities, I expect the project team will have planned for this.

Rail, sleepers, ballast is delivered and recovered by rail


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: bobm on December 31, 2020, 11:12:30 am
You can see the first couple of sleepers have been delivered in the photo above.   ;D


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on December 31, 2020, 11:41:39 am
Rail, sleepers, ballast is delivered and recovered by rail

1.5 miles is 20 x 250m lengths of rail. 400 tonnes of ballast is presumably about 20 wagon loads? Concrete sleepers are about 200 - 220 Kg, so about 800 to 900 tonnes, a lot less if wood is used. So in total, five or six trains, at a rough guess. Perhaps a real expert could fill in the details, but what would be a massive logistical exercise for road vehicles is all in a day's work on a railway. Still impressive, though.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Electric train on December 31, 2020, 01:09:52 pm
Rail, sleepers, ballast is delivered and recovered by rail

1.5 miles is 20 x 250m lengths of rail. 400 tonnes of ballast is presumably about 20 wagon loads? Concrete sleepers are about 200 - 220 Kg, so about 800 to 900 tonnes, a lot less if wood is used. So in total, five or six trains, at a rough guess. Perhaps a real expert could fill in the details, but what would be a massive logistical exercise for road vehicles is all in a day's work on a railway. Still impressive, though.

Expect the majority of the sleepers top be steel


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Pb_devon on January 01, 2021, 08:35:02 am
The CRS website news today has images that confirm steel sleepers. No doubt there will be updates on there as work proceeds.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 01, 2021, 08:50:46 pm
The CRS website news today has images that confirm steel sleepers. No doubt there will be updates on there as work proceeds.

So that's 12 standard container loads, max, if British Steel  (https://britishsteel.co.uk/what-we-do/rail/steel-sleepers/)aren't exaggerating.

Quote
Steel ties are lighter than concrete sleepers and have the added benefit of being stackable. Container shipping is an economical option with 300-400 standard gauge sleepers or 450-600 metric gauge sleepers being contained within one standard 20ft shipping container. Sleepers are typically stacked in bundles of 10 which can be lifted with a standard forklift truck. Individual sleepers are light enough to be manually handled on site if required. Fewer vehicle movements on site improves safety and reduces the environmental impact of the project too.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Electric train on January 01, 2021, 09:04:20 pm
The CRS website news today has images that confirm steel sleepers. No doubt there will be updates on there as work proceeds.

So that's 12 standard container loads, max, if British Steel  (https://britishsteel.co.uk/what-we-do/rail/steel-sleepers/)aren't exaggerating.

Quote
Steel ties are lighter than concrete sleepers and have the added benefit of being stackable. Container shipping is an economical option with 300-400 standard gauge sleepers or 450-600 metric gauge sleepers being contained within one standard 20ft shipping container. Sleepers are typically stacked in bundles of 10 which can be lifted with a standard forklift truck. Individual sleepers are light enough to be manually handled on site if required. Fewer vehicle movements on site improves safety and reduces the environmental impact of the project too.

They will arrive by rail and one of these track laying consists used https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/stafford-rail-development-sets-track-laying-record-as-it-enters-final-stages-1


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: GBM on January 02, 2021, 11:43:08 am
Is it me? 
The clear track adjacent to the track laying equipment (Stafford picture https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/stafford-rail-development-sets-track-laying-record-as-it-enters-final-stages-1) looks very 'kinked'.
Guess there is a technical term for it.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: stuving on January 02, 2021, 12:07:13 pm
Is it me? 
The clear track adjacent to the track laying equipment (Stafford picture https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/stafford-rail-development-sets-track-laying-record-as-it-enters-final-stages-1) looks very 'kinked'.
Guess there is a technical term for it.

That's not track - it's two rails sitting on the ballast waiting for another of those clever machines to put sleepers under it and clip it down. Rail is quite floppy on its own - at least when seen foreshortened like that.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: paul7755 on January 02, 2021, 12:44:16 pm
I found a quite recent video of the overall track laying process involving the Balfour Beatty new track construction train, (NTC).  It?s installing track on steel sleepers in this example, at Shildon, the machine can be seen at around 15 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/vUd2kc-JsB8

It seems to me this machine is possibly more relevant to installing brand new track, or for single track replacement, but on double track a lot of replacement will still get done one side at a time by conventional road rail equipment working from the existing parallel track?

Paul


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: smokey on January 02, 2021, 04:09:57 pm
Heck of a lot of Steel sleepers in and along the line from Carbis Bay to St Ives.

I don't Understand the Quote from Rail Advent that this is the biggest investment in Track renewals in Cornwall since the 1950s, this relaying will extend the CWR laid from St Erth towards St Ives  that was installed about 4 years ago.
Would think the whole branch will be CWR after work is completed, so if 1 1/2 miles is being done then 3 miles has ALREADY been relaid with CWR.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 02, 2021, 08:22:25 pm
I found a quite recent video of the overall track laying process involving the Balfour Beatty new track construction train, (NTC).  It?s installing track on steel sleepers in this example, at Shildon, the machine can be seen at around 15 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/vUd2kc-JsB8

It seems to me this machine is possibly more relevant to installing brand new track, or for single track replacement, but on double track a lot of replacement will still get done one side at a time by conventional road rail equipment working from the existing parallel track?

Paul


Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 02, 2021, 09:05:16 pm
I found a quite recent video of the overall track laying process involving the Balfour Beatty new track construction train, (NTC).  It?s installing track on steel sleepers in this example, at Shildon, the machine can be seen at around 15 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/vUd2kc-JsB8

It seems to me this machine is possibly more relevant to installing brand new track, or for single track replacement, but on double track a lot of replacement will still get done one side at a time by conventional road rail equipment working from the existing parallel track?

Paul


Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!

not a week but five weeks.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Electric train on January 03, 2021, 07:29:15 am
I found a quite recent video of the overall track laying process involving the Balfour Beatty new track construction train, (NTC).  It?s installing track on steel sleepers in this example, at Shildon, the machine can be seen at around 15 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/vUd2kc-JsB8

It seems to me this machine is possibly more relevant to installing brand new track, or for single track replacement, but on double track a lot of replacement will still get done one side at a time by conventional road rail equipment working from the existing parallel track?

Paul


Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!

not a week but five weeks.

Depends on what else is being done.  Earthworks, culvert work, repairs to structures, what is referred to as a deep dig (ie going back to or near to the original formation and putting new layers of stone back)


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: stuving on January 03, 2021, 11:10:24 am
Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!

One thing these machines can't yet do is bring their own rails with them - these have to be brought in and placed in position first. That's not so bad for replacement, where the existing track can be used, and the rails kicked off the side of a train. For installation from scratch, or from track so bad it can't be used for a goods train, it must be quite a challenge. I think it means bringing in quite short lengths and welding on site, and in any case the whole length has to be temporarily joined across the gaps that will be finally welded only when tensioning is done.

Maybe the next development step of the machnes will be for that gantry that scoots back and forth the whole length of the train, carrying sleepers up to the front, to pull rails forwards from an even longer train-load of supplies. The gantry runs on rails attached to the sides of the wagons, which are continuous across the gaps between them while allowing for curves. I'm sure some kind of channel equipped with rollers can be included for rail handling too. Note that (at least in Balfour Beatty's one) there's a driver inside the gantry - I'm sure that's a more popular gig than the "seat" down at track level for the operator who appears to be supervising the clipping down of the rails.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 03, 2021, 04:06:33 pm
i'm hearing some good news that reviewed serviceable removed rail and sleepers are destined for the Helston Railway.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on January 04, 2021, 08:05:18 am
Presumably the fact that steel sleepers are being laid in an area with salty sea air has been considered?


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Electric train on January 04, 2021, 08:28:43 am
Presumably the fact that steel sleepers are being laid in an area with salty sea air has been considered?

They will last longer than the timber ones with cast iron chars, concrete is excessive for what is effectively a light railway


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: rower40 on January 04, 2021, 03:46:27 pm
I found a quite recent video of the overall track laying process involving the Balfour Beatty new track construction train, (NTC).  It?s installing track on steel sleepers in this example, at Shildon, the machine can be seen at around 15 mins into the video.

https://youtu.be/vUd2kc-JsB8

It seems to me this machine is possibly more relevant to installing brand new track, or for single track replacement, but on double track a lot of replacement will still get done one side at a time by conventional road rail equipment working from the existing parallel track?

Paul


Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!

It's done like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmZIgVoQw4&t=111s

1m33 in, and onwards.



Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: paul7755 on January 05, 2021, 12:01:40 pm
Seeing that machine, I wonder why it's going to take a week to relay St Ives!

One thing these machines can't yet do is bring their own rails with them - these have to be brought in and placed in position first. That's not so bad for replacement, where the existing track can be used, and the rails kicked off the side of a train. For installation from scratch, or from track so bad it can't be used for a goods train, it must be quite a challenge. I think it means bringing in quite short lengths and welding on site, and in any case the whole length has to be temporarily joined across the gaps that will be finally welded only when tensioning is done.

Maybe the next development step of the machnes will be for that gantry that scoots back and forth the whole length of the train, carrying sleepers up to the front, to pull rails forwards from an even longer train-load of supplies. The gantry runs on rails attached to the sides of the wagons, which are continuous across the gaps between them while allowing for curves. I'm sure some kind of channel equipped with rollers can be included for rail handling too. Note that (at least in Balfour Beatty's one) there's a driver inside the gantry - I'm sure that's a more popular gig than the "seat" down at track level for the operator who appears to be supervising the clipping down of the rails.
On the Borders railway, they used a quite different (Dutch) machine, which effectively pulled long welded rail strings off the front of a rail delivery train, and pushed them ahead of itself, but it relied on the sleepers already being accurately positioned for hundreds of yards ahead in the direction of movement.  They also had a small tracked guidance machine right at the front, and temporary rollers.

A short Rail Engineer video, it?s the very last part:  https://youtu.be/VHWuTvpcco4
Much longer video: https://youtu.be/bSmkO0un5Go

It seems to me on single track you either have to lay the rails ahead of the sleeper delivery train, or lay the sleepers ahead of a rail delivery train, but it would be pretty much impossible to do both at once using a single machine travelling on rails...

Paul


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: stuving on January 05, 2021, 03:09:34 pm
On the Borders railway, they used a quite different (Dutch) machine, which effectively pulled long welded rail strings off the front of a rail delivery train, and pushed them ahead of itself, but it relied on the sleepers already being accurately positioned for hundreds of yards ahead in the direction of movement.  They also had a small tracked guidance machine right at the front, and temporary rollers.

A short Rail Engineer video, it?s the very last part:  https://youtu.be/VHWuTvpcco4
Much longer video: https://youtu.be/bSmkO0un5Go

It seems to me on single track you either have to lay the rails ahead of the sleeper delivery train, or lay the sleepers ahead of a rail delivery train, but it would be pretty much impossible to do both at once using a single machine travelling on rails...

Paul

I was going to say that (including the video) shows what I was proposing would be quite feasible. Couple that rail-handling machine and wagons to the back of the sleeper wagons, feed rails along/over/through those, and use similar small tracked vehicles and rollers to pull the rails out in front. Depending on gauge issues you might need to lose the bottom layer of sleepers to feed the rails through (on rollers and guided), but it all looks doable.

But I find that Plasser&Theurer have got there first (https://www.plassertheurer.com/en/media-library/latest-newsletter/track-laying-for-indias-largest-railway-construction-project/assembly-line-track-laying-using-the-svm-1000-i.html) (as well as a Chinese company (http://www.hcrailway.com/product/railway.php) and perhaps Harsco). Their biggest beast, the SVM 1000, can be configured in several ways, for replacement or for laying from scratch. They put a layer of rails under the sleepers on their adapted wagons (supporting the shuttle-gantry), though other descriptions have separate wagons for rails. I can't find a clear set of words or a video of it operating in this mode, but I suspect it does the pulling-out of rails and the picking them up and laying the sleepers as two separate steps. I also suspect they have never tried to down-size these machines of theirs for British gauge - not a trivial task.

That leaves one more operation that might be better done by train as it involves delivering something very heavy - laying the ballast. I can't see that being done by the same omnipotent machine, but I think it should be possible to lay track on bare soil and put the ballast underneath it afterwards with a separate big machine (possibly in two or more passes). I can imagine that it might take longer to get it tamped and stable afterwards, and the ground preparation would need to be adapted.

However, you need to be careful you are not going to a lot a effort and expense to mechanise something better (and cheaper) done by a bunch of blokes of above-average BMI with much simpler machines and tools. Plus, of course, laying brand-new track isn't that common.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: eightonedee on January 05, 2021, 06:09:52 pm
In the light of the last few posts - what prospects of someone developing something better than the much-heralded machine that failed to deliver the goods on the GWML electrification to deliver OHL lines quicker and cheaper?


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Electric train on January 05, 2021, 07:45:59 pm
In the light of the last few posts - what prospects of someone developing something better than the much-heralded machine that failed to deliver the goods on the GWML electrification to deliver OHL lines quicker and cheaper?

The "clever" people who dreamt up the OHL factory train have mostly left the industry, we now have engineer in the industry with recent experience who have learnt the lessons of GWEP especially from a number of former BR engineers who were involved in ECML etc that were brought in as consultants.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 05, 2021, 09:59:21 pm
So how practically will the work be done at St Ives, when the line ends at the buffers at the station. An explanation would be welcome.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: CyclingSid on January 06, 2021, 07:12:24 am
Probably not acceptable to Network Rail:
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/heritage/army-has-relaid-bridge-level-crossing-and-450m-track-wensleydale-railway-just-three-weeks-3002103 (https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/heritage/army-has-relaid-bridge-level-crossing-and-450m-track-wensleydale-railway-just-three-weeks-3002103)
From another article it appears the Army's interest is that this is the railway that brings tanks into Catterick Garrison.
What I was looking for was the fabulous picture of an RE track laying machine on the Longmoor Military Railway, not to modern H&S standards but a typical Army pragmatic solution.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Electric train on January 06, 2021, 07:25:30 am
So how practically will the work be done at St Ives, when the line ends at the buffers at the station. An explanation would be welcome.

The sleeper laying train will work as close to the line end as it can, also when the Maidenhead - Bourne End was relayed last year the platform areas have concrete sleepers which were laid by RRV (Road Rail Vehicles) effectively track panel by track panel (60 ft ish)


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 06, 2021, 08:35:54 am

But I find that Plasser&Theurer have got there first (https://www.plassertheurer.com/en/media-library/latest-newsletter/track-laying-for-indias-largest-railway-construction-project/assembly-line-track-laying-using-the-svm-1000-i.html)

There is plenty of video of the Plasser machine in action, including this piece (https://youtu.be/XwiNaHmOscU) in Sweden.

In the light of the last few posts - what prospects of someone developing something better than the much-heralded machine that failed to deliver the goods on the GWML electrification to deliver OHL lines quicker and cheaper?

It seemed to me at the time that the fault lay not with the OHL train but with whoever thought it was appropriate for the particular job in hand. I may well have this wrong and look forward to correction, but I recall that it worked according to what it said on the tin. There were lots of issues with stuff that had been buried along the lineside without being recorded, such as a massive internet outage when it punched a gantry base through a fibre optic cable, and signal cables being cut. Some of the tracks weren't in the same position as when someone last updated records, and we were left with exploratory digging having to be done by men with shovels. On a lovely virgin railway, with all the add-ons routed neatly through proper conduits, it might well have accomplished the claimed 1.6 Km per overnight shift, but the real world proved to be a more challenging environment. I would hope that we got our money back, but somehow, I doubt it..


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 06, 2021, 08:50:36 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq9H0q7XEAEXp8I.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq9H0rDW4AAaj7h.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErCNgKfXIAcJ9j1.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErCNgKfXcAEKF0P.jpg)

from Network Rail Western on Twitter.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: bobm on January 06, 2021, 10:21:31 am
Lovely photos, but torture we can't go to see for ourselves!


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on January 06, 2021, 12:21:08 pm
Lovely photos, but torture we can't go to see for ourselves!

Indeed so, I can just about see our favourite St Ives restaurant (Porthminster Beach Cafe) in the final shot!

Looks like the work is progressing well.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: bobm on January 07, 2021, 07:44:43 am
A video featuring some of the work

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0BhoUNPEEknzQuDAJANef7mWOsv0MfovsMwO66iqQao1dgLew7rpAmbYA&v=S6T5jjivQ88&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0BhoUNPEEknzQuDAJANef7mWOsv0MfovsMwO66iqQao1dgLew7rpAmbYA&v=S6T5jjivQ88&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on January 07, 2021, 08:42:42 am
A video featuring some of the work

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0BhoUNPEEknzQuDAJANef7mWOsv0MfovsMwO66iqQao1dgLew7rpAmbYA&v=S6T5jjivQ88&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0BhoUNPEEknzQuDAJANef7mWOsv0MfovsMwO66iqQao1dgLew7rpAmbYA&v=S6T5jjivQ88&feature=youtu.be)

Thanks for posting, looks like quite a bit of new track is down already, including some with concrete sleepers.

Also interesting to see the latest large residence ("Skyfall") taking further shape on what I call "millionaires row" between St Ives and Carbis Bay, since I was last there back in August.

Interesting to see also what is being dug up on Porthminster Beach?


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 07, 2021, 03:44:04 pm
I note that although the whole line is seaward facing, that the apparent concrete sleepers shown in the video, appear to be on the most exposed stretch of the track being relaid. Reference to this aspect of the job was made earlier in this thread.

EDIT ...

More from Network Rail Western on Twitter

(https://i.imgur.com/RjkDMIo.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/N02VFvT.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Mu72AvQ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/zpxeOsx.jpg)


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 11, 2021, 04:49:30 pm
Drone Footage from Network Rail Western.

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1348662466486685698


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 12, 2021, 04:29:44 pm
More today from NRW on Twitter

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Erh2J69XYAARUzW.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Erh2J7dXUAEf_8a.jpg)


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: MVR S&T on January 12, 2021, 04:38:41 pm
Option for a 2 foot gauge line?


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: old original on January 12, 2021, 05:06:13 pm
Atmospheric railway pipe...


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: eXPassenger on January 12, 2021, 05:16:20 pm
For some reason I am not seeing the images referenced today by RailCornwall.  I am using MS Edge and am logged in; images are showing fine in other posts.

If I reply using the quote button I can see the image URLs and if I copy them into the address bar I can open and see the images.

I had the same problem with his posting on 6 January but the posting on 7 January displays with no problems.

Any ideas please?


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: paul7755 on January 12, 2021, 06:21:04 pm
Option for a 2 foot gauge line?
Those are ?guard rail? cast in chairs, usually seen on bridges and viaducts where there?s an obvious derailment risk.  Is it because of proximity to the sea, or maybe there?s a cliff rock fall derailment risk? 

Paul


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 12, 2021, 07:12:47 pm
For some reason I am not seeing the images referenced today by RailCornwall.  I am using MS Edge and am logged in; images are showing fine in other posts.

If I reply using the quote button I can see the image URLs and if I copy them into the address bar I can open and see the images.

I had the same problem with his posting on 6 January but the posting on 7 January displays with no problems.

Any ideas please?

I'm using the Edge, version 87.0.664.75 64-bit, and it works fine. There aren't many options for compatibility, as there are in IE and Chrome. Maybe check for an update? Or try playing U2 at the same time, but otherwise I'm out of ideas.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Electric train on January 12, 2021, 08:13:00 pm
Option for a 2 foot gauge line?
Those are ?guard rail? cast in chairs, usually seen on bridges and viaducts where there?s an obvious derailment risk.  Is it because of proximity to the sea, or maybe there?s a cliff rock fall derailment risk? 

Paul

Not sure it is for check rails, thing the rails in the 4ft are to help maintain track alinement due to the curve.  Check rails are usually in the same chair as the running rails


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: AMLAG on January 12, 2021, 08:38:45 pm
These 'non standard' new concrete sleepers with fixings for glanding rails ( with no evident flat bottom rails waiting in the adjacent cesses to be installed ) could well have been used because they were surplus to another track renewal job or another job elsewhere on NR was cancelled or deferred. Possibly NR will comment.

It woud have been interesting and very good PR if NR had said what age the track was that they were replacing to inform Joe Public just what a long service life railway track materials can have.
It is quite likely that the chaired concrete sleepers (that hold BH rail) were made between 1948 and 1955 AND it is understood they are to have a second life on the planned  extension of the Helston Railway! Compare that with the short life of materials being expensively used by Contractors to temporarily repair the thousands of potholes in Devon's roads.



Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyN on January 12, 2021, 09:41:34 pm
For some reason I am not seeing the images referenced today by RailCornwall.  I am using MS Edge and am logged in; images are showing fine in other posts.

If I reply using the quote button I can see the image URLs and if I copy them into the address bar I can open and see the images.

I had the same problem with his posting on 6 January but the posting on 7 January displays with no problems.

Any ideas please?
With me it works in Edge and Chrome but not Firefox. ???


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 12, 2021, 09:46:40 pm
I'd assume that at least some of the track being replaced dates from the post 1960's rationalisation of the line and the subsequent cut back of the facilities at the Station to the bare bones single platform. Indeed if not earlier.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Cornish bobby on January 13, 2021, 10:31:19 am
Heck of a lot of Steel sleepers in and along the line from Carbis Bay to St Ives.

I don't Understand the Quote from Rail Advent that this is the biggest investment in Track renewals in Cornwall since the 1950s, this relaying will extend the CWR laid from St Erth towards St Ives  that was installed about 4 years ago.
Would think the whole branch will be CWR after work is completed, so if 1 1/2 miles is being done then 3 miles has ALREADY been relaid with CWR.

There will still be a section by the golf course to be renewed when the current work is complete.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 13, 2021, 12:32:02 pm
It woud have been interesting and very good PR if NR had said what age the track was that they were replacing to inform Joe Public just what a long service life railway track materials can have.
It is quite likely that the chaired concrete sleepers (that hold BH rail) were made between 1948 and 1955 AND it is understood they are to have a second life on the planned  extension of the Helston Railway! Compare that with the short life of materials being expensively used by Contractors to temporarily repair the thousands of potholes in Devon's roads.

I read in a staff briefing that some of the track dates back to the 1940s.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: paul7755 on January 13, 2021, 01:01:15 pm
Option for a 2 foot gauge line?
Those are ?guard rail? cast in chairs, usually seen on bridges and viaducts where there?s an obvious derailment risk.  Is it because of proximity to the sea, or maybe there?s a cliff rock fall derailment risk? 

Paul

Not sure it is for check rails, thing the rails in the 4ft are to help maintain track alinement due to the curve.  Check rails are usually in the same chair as the running rails
I intentionally didn?t mention check rails though, because they have a separate function to guard rails, the former are positioned to work against the back of the wheel flange, eg within points and crossings.
I guess we?ll see what they fit shortly, but presumably they?re being used because there?s no equivalent steel sleeper.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Electric train on January 13, 2021, 04:53:18 pm
Option for a 2 foot gauge line?
Those are ?guard rail? cast in chairs, usually seen on bridges and viaducts where there?s an obvious derailment risk.  Is it because of proximity to the sea, or maybe there?s a cliff rock fall derailment risk? 

Paul

Not sure it is for check rails, thing the rails in the 4ft are to help maintain track alinement due to the curve.  Check rails are usually in the same chair as the running rails
I intentionally didn?t mention check rails though, because they have a separate function to guard rails, the former are positioned to work against the back of the wheel flange, eg within points and crossings.
I guess we?ll see what they fit shortly, but presumably they?re being used because there?s no equivalent steel sleeper.

I am guessing the use of concrete sleepers in the location might be due to lateral forces, which the mass of concrete will help mitigate


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 13, 2021, 06:59:26 pm
According to Network Rail, answering Peter in their Twitter feed: (https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1348993929560133634)

Quote
Hi Peter, guard rails will be installed in these loops.  Used on tracks where there are bendy sections to catch the train should the unfortunate happen and a train is derailed.  They are also used over viaducts where the parapets may not be high enough. more pics in coming weeks

Bloomin' internet - ruins debate.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: eightonedee on January 13, 2021, 08:03:18 pm
Quote
Quote
Hi Peter, guard rails will be installed in these loops.  Used on tracks where there are bendy sections to catch the train should the unfortunate happen and a train is derailed.  They are also used over viaducts where the parapets may not be high enough. more pics in coming weeks

Bloomin' internet - ruins debate.

But it doesn't stop all kinds of ill-informed speculation proliferating!


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 13, 2021, 08:30:06 pm

But it doesn't stop all kinds of ill-informed speculation proliferating!

Not on here - speculation is usually very well informed.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Jamsdad on January 13, 2021, 08:33:37 pm
I must say I cant understand how this is being promoted as "the biggest investment in track renewals in Cornwall since the 1950's". The mainline has of course had CWR , and more recently there has been the re-doubliing of the track between St Austell and Truro. Does anyone know the basis of the investment claim?Or is it a misquote just relating to investment in the St Ives branch??


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 15, 2021, 12:40:11 pm
Couple more from NRW

(https://i.imgur.com/NaIVuZC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/T84gfTg.jpg)


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: smokey on January 17, 2021, 12:26:29 pm
Re the two photos above.

What a Nightmare for the tamper operator.  :o :o


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: smokey on January 17, 2021, 12:32:40 pm
Coming back to how old the rails were, whilst not the St Ives Branch, back in 2002, must have been no earlier than that as I was with a new workmate who started in 2002, we were at Newquay (Cornwall) station, and looking at the Bullhead rail chairs many were GWR dated 1920's and 30's there were also LSW chairs dated around the same dates, even a couple of LMS chairs but around ten chairs were dated 96 and 98 which I guess meant 1896 and 1898.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 18, 2021, 04:38:14 pm
Another from NRW

(https://i.imgur.com/8KVIFwU.jpg)


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on January 20, 2021, 08:36:53 pm
More from NRW ....

(https://i.imgur.com/f52bF2N.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/JVBjoRS.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BaKisFX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wLtHa5j.jpg)


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on January 21, 2021, 08:12:37 am
On their Twitter feed Network Rail Western have denied that this work is taking place so that "Amtrak Joe" can have a ride on the new rails when he visits in June.

Apparently it's a coincidence of timing!


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 21, 2021, 08:50:18 am
On their Twitter feed Network Rail Western have denied that this work is taking place so that "Amtrak Joe" can have a ride on the new rails when he visits in June.

Apparently it's a coincidence of timing!

For once, I believe Twitter. This has been planned for a long time. So has the summit, probably, but behind many layers of closed doors.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: eightonedee on January 21, 2021, 01:33:14 pm
I think if Boris wants to give Joe a treat he should arrange a trip up the line in a "heritage" DMU so he can travel in the front  passenger seats with the blinds up and enjoy seeing the route on the journey


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: rower40 on January 21, 2021, 03:31:43 pm
I think if Boris wants to give Joe a treat he should arrange a trip up the line in a "heritage" DMU so he can travel in the front  passenger seats with the blinds up and enjoy seeing the route on the journey
Or an autocoach with a GWR Pannier tank behind it.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyN on January 21, 2021, 04:38:00 pm
I think if Boris wants to give Joe a treat he should arrange a trip up the line in a "heritage" DMU so he can travel in the front  passenger seats with the blinds up and enjoy seeing the route on the journey
Or an autocoach with a GWR Pannier tank behind it.
Or the Steam Railmotor.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RichardB on January 21, 2021, 08:22:23 pm
I think if Boris wants to give Joe a treat he should arrange a trip up the line in a "heritage" DMU so he can travel in the front  passenger seats with the blinds up and enjoy seeing the route on the journey

A trip on a nice GWR 150 would be treat enough......genuinely

Hope it happens.  It just might.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: infoman on January 22, 2021, 04:31:44 am
Just like to say, thank you for all those excellent photos.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Kernow Otter on January 22, 2021, 01:29:10 pm
That is almost worth a poll !!

Given the opportunity, what should Boris use to late world leaders on a trip to St Ives?

Heritage DMU, Autocoach and Panier, Steam Rail Motor, or 150 ?

Clueless as to how to set up a poll, so will park that idea !!


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: grahame on January 22, 2021, 02:08:25 pm
That is almost worth a poll !!

Given the opportunity, what should Boris use to late world leaders on a trip to St Ives?

Heritage DMU, Autocoach and Panier, Steam Rail Motor, or 150 ?

Clueless as to how to set up a poll, so will park that idea !!

Clues given at http://www.passenger.chat/24565 ... it IS worth a poll - so please unpark the idea and make sure I've not overlooked anything.   Other members welcome to post polls too!


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: paul7755 on January 22, 2021, 02:18:56 pm

Given the opportunity, what should Boris use to late world leaders on a trip to St Ives?

Must have been thinking of Trump...   ;D


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 23, 2021, 07:46:04 pm
Thinking about this, if the G7 actually agrees on something significant, people may be arguing 50 years hence about whether something is a breach of the "Carbis Bay Agreement".


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: stuving on January 23, 2021, 07:54:15 pm
Thinking about this, if the G7 actually agrees on something significant, people may be arguing 50 years hence about whether something is a breach of the "Carbis Bay Agreement".

Just so long as the leaders are not still bickering about the "2021 G7 car/bus bay agreement".


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyN on January 25, 2021, 09:29:41 pm
Just read about Boris talking to Joe Biden about railways in the times. I am afraid most of the article is behind a paywall.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnson-biden-phone-call-love-of-railways-puts-us-relations-on-right-track-ghm6bk3tw (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnson-biden-phone-call-love-of-railways-puts-us-relations-on-right-track-ghm6bk3tw)


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 25, 2021, 09:47:39 pm
Just read about Boris talking to Joe Biden about railways in the times. I am afraid most of the article is behind a paywall.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnson-biden-phone-call-love-of-railways-puts-us-relations-on-right-track-ghm6bk3tw (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnson-biden-phone-call-love-of-railways-puts-us-relations-on-right-track-ghm6bk3tw)

It does say part-way through:
Quote
He and Joe Biden are said to have bonded over their mutual love of rolling stock in the first call between the two men since the new US president took office.

The prime minister is understood to have asked about Mr Biden?s Amtrak train journeys across the country and his daily commute by train from his home in Delaware to work in Washington when he was a senator. His commitment to the US rail network and his battle to win more public funding for the sector earned him the nickname ?Amtrak Joe?. He was said to have been disappointed that security concerns scuppered his plan to travel by train to his inauguration last week.

The rest is largely boring politics, but it does make the prospect of a Presidential rail trip whilst over here seem a little more likely.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 26, 2021, 03:01:42 pm
Some more pictures, from National Rail's Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1353996894448603137):

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EspLin4XcAIM8T9?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EspLin0XAAImozs?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EspLipKXMAAIpNC?format=jpg&name=large)

The accompanying text says@

Quote
We've got just under two weeks left on the St Ives branch line, where we've replaced worn sleepers and track, laid fresh stone, installed guard rail, (it's not narrow gauge) and we have drainage work to do.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: grahame on January 26, 2021, 03:32:20 pm
Some more pictures ...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EspLipKXMAAIpNC?format=jpg&name=large)

The accompanying text says ...

I know what it says .... but I still half expect Countess or Southern Maid to appear around the corner!


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: GBM on January 26, 2021, 04:49:28 pm
May someone enlighten me as to what the four green wires are that are plugged into the 'rails' with a blue connector?


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: paul7755 on January 26, 2021, 05:06:49 pm
May someone enlighten me as to what the four green wires are that are plugged into the 'rails' with a blue connector?

Pandrol fastclips?  Preinstalled on sleepers - modern replacement for Pandrol P clips, I think they?re designed for use with automated track laying machines.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 26, 2021, 06:31:46 pm
Sorry about the size, BTW. They aren't my photos, and I couldn't think of a quick way to unembiggen them.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: stuving on January 26, 2021, 06:41:36 pm
Sorry about the size, BTW. They aren't my photos, and I couldn't think of a quick way to unembiggen them.

You put width=800 after "img" in [img] (or 600 as it's portrait shjape). See Graham's post above for an example.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 26, 2021, 07:20:50 pm


You put width=800 after "img" in [img] (or 600 as it's portrait shjape). See Graham's post above for an example.

I am obliged to my learned friend, they are now unembiggened.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: stuving on January 26, 2021, 07:37:37 pm


You put width=800 after "img" in [img] (or 600 as it's portrait shjape). See Graham's post above for an example.

I am obliged to my learned friend, they are now unembiggened.

.. or would be with the width put in the right place, thus - [img width=600].


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on January 26, 2021, 11:42:58 pm

.. or would be with the width put in the right place, thus - [img width=600].

Don't know what happened there, but never trust a preview. New glasses too. I went for 800 in the end.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RailCornwall on February 08, 2021, 12:54:44 pm
Line reopened this morning as scheduled, NRW however still pedalling the biggest track investment in 60 years mantra though which is unfortunate.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: RichardB on February 08, 2021, 01:47:48 pm
Line reopened this morning as scheduled, NRW however still pedalling the biggest track investment in 60 years mantra though which is unfortunate.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.  All good publicity for the railway and great to see everything go to plan with the line reopening today.  I've enjoyed seeing NR's tweets with photos and videos from the worksite.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: infoman on February 08, 2021, 06:54:45 pm
BBC spotlight had a small news item on the re-opening.
Stated it cost 3 million pounds for the one and half mile improvement??????????????????????


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Electric train on February 08, 2021, 07:01:58 pm
BBC spotlight had a small news item on the re-opening.
Stated it cost 3 million pounds for the one and half mile improvement??????????????????????

Sounds about right


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: rower40 on February 18, 2021, 02:23:45 pm
The last time anything of this scale was done on the St Ives branch was when one of the rails was moved towards the other one by two feet, three and three quarter inches. 
At least this time it's both rails that have been replaced.
[mode: sarcasm=off]


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: smokey on February 21, 2021, 11:00:02 am
On their Twitter feed Network Rail Western have denied that this work is taking place so that "Amtrak Joe" can have a ride on the new rails when he visits in June.

Apparently it's a coincidence of timing!

I'd be thi9nking if this relaying job was "on the back of the G7" the middle section of track around the golf links would have also be relaid.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: Jamsdad on February 21, 2021, 06:24:23 pm
I agree. It would also imply a leveleof "joined up government" which is sadly almost always absent in this country. Foreign Office talk to Transport? I doubt it.


Title: Re: Engineering work to close St Ives branch Jan to Feb 2021
Post by: TonyK on February 22, 2021, 05:26:42 pm
I am sure that the track renewal was scheduled some time before the G7. It could be that the venue was chosen because the line had been relaid. :)



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