Great Western Coffee Shop

From Twitter

Also covered in the News and Star (https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18869812.train-operator-announces-total-alcohol-ban/) from Carlisle.

Headline is Train operator announces total alcohol ban

Fine print says


Around the edges ... the suggestion is that this applies at the Network Rail Stations of Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Central too ... what about on Avanti, Cross Country and LNER trains, what about the case of Lockerbie Station - managed by Scotrail but none of their trains call there ...

And while we're on changes at Scotrail - from the Lockside Press (https://thelochsidepress.com/2020/11/15/rural-train-services-are-cut-by-scotrail/)


First arrival into Glasgow from stations beyond the Glasgow 'burbs will become 11:31 from Mallaig, then 11:58 from Oban (the 08:40 has gone).  A six hour gap in trains the other way - 12:23 and then 18:23 from Glasgow Queen Street (the 16:36 is gone).

This is all so reminiscent of other proposals for cutting already sparse service, and I know only too well the potential knock on effects.  Scotland is a long way from Wiltshire and I am relieved and very grateful to everyone who has been working to avoid our service being trimmed below a usable level for 2021; a huge THANK YOU and with my MRUG hat a commitment to volunteer to help it work .

That's one racial stereotype oot the wendy.

This policy is in my view ill advised and will detract from the reputation of Scotland as a holiday or tourist destination.
There is an already existing view in some quarters that Scotland has a problem with alcohol. Banning alcohol sale and consumption on all trains will tend to reinforce this view.

I recall a proposal a few years ago to ban ALL use of glasses and glass bottles in ALL licensed premises in Glasgow. The ban was NOT introduced for fear of the adverse publicity and negative effect on tourism.
"Bottle of vintage burgundy with your dinner sir ?" With a requirement that the waiter pour the perhaps costly vintage into plastic glasses, and decline to let the customer handle the bottle.
The message that would have been sent out was considered to be "dont visit Glasgow, it is such a drunken hell hole that restaurant customers are not allowed to handle bottles, presumably for fear that they will hit people with them"

Banning all alcohol on all trains sends out  a similar negative message.

And yes I know that it is meant to be tempory, but restrictions tend to be become permanent. The health lobby and the jobsworths regard drinkning as the new smoking.

There has been a ban on alcohol on some of the Cardiff Valley lines for some time and certainly before this year.  Similarly on the last Saturday service from Weymouth to Bristol.

I think more focussed bans are a better way to go.

I can see the merit of banning alcohol on certain services with a history of drunken trouble.

However banning all alcohol on all trains sends out a very negative message. I also perceive some risk of mission creep or over interpretation of the rules. For example by refusing passage to those carrying sealed containers of drink as part of their shopping, or for a gift. This has already happened on LUL services.

The reputation for excessive drinking in Scotland goes back many years.
I recall as a young child when we first got a TV. The first programme that I watched was news about an exceptional snowfall in Scotland, as it melted this snow was dripping through the defective roofing of tenements onto those within.
TV picture showed drops of water landing on the head of a resident.

As a young child I asked "why does the silly man not move from under the leak ?" My father replied "He is Scottish and probably too drunk to care"
I was only about 5 at the time.

Indeed - and not just among outsiders. Two diary entries by my ancestor Adam Mackie, who had a farm and kept a village shop and inn in Fyvie, Aberdeenshire:

6th January 1823: "My folks who have leave from work on this Christmas day and employs their time in getting drunk."

7th January 1825: "As has been the case this some days past, I am in my shop and busily employed. This day ends Christmas, which my men folks had need of. They travel and drink by turns day and night. Their liberty at this time distresses them much."

It's not clear from his other entries whether many really celebrated for twelve days, or just those for whom any excuse...   Nor what happened on 1st January; but 25th December was a working day and it looks as if old-style Christmas was still being kept for the Christmas revels no longer allowed by the Kirk.

The English hardly have a reputation for sobriety either. Nor the Welsh. Come to that, probably nowhere north of about 50 degrees does.

True - but at least for the English, drinking spirits rather than (or - even worse - as well as) beer makes the reputation worse. Maybe that goes back to Gin Alley? So Scots, Finns, ...

Can you point me to where it says I can't carry a sealed bottle of wine home amongst my other shopping on the Underground, or to an example of where someone has been stopped from doing so?

I believe that the Kirk's view was that everything is forbidden unless it's compulsory.


As many as 50 degrees?  You've never had rum punch for breakfast.

No regulation prohibits the carrying of a sealed bottle of wine on the London Underground.
I was twice refused admission to an underground station for carrying sealed containers of alcohol as part of my shopping. On one ocaision, cans of drink could be seen through a partialy transparent shopping bag.
On another journey, my bag was searched "as part of routine crime prevention" and a bottle of spirits found. The BTP officer said "You should know that drink is not permitted on LUL" He pointed to a notice that confirmed the prohibition on drinking and the carrying of open containers of alcohol.
I pointed out that I was not drinking, not carrying an open container, but was told "makes no difference because you could open it"  And that the rule is not for debate or argument, NO DRINK.

Others have reported similar experiences.

I wrote to complain and received a standard reply about the powers of the BTP to which everyone is subject.

Does Port come in cans now?  :D

Can do..

Probably, somewhere, though I have never seen such a product. It was beer in my shopping when I was refused admission to the undeground.
Worth remarking upon IMHO as an example of how the police tend to over interprate regulations.

I suspect they recognised you Broadgage and the notoriety of your rock n roll lifestyle preceeded you, hence the BTP acting with extreme caution!  ;)

Unfortunately, I believe, the reaction to COVID-19 has generated a number of other examples of this, from both the police and other 'authorities'.