Great Western Coffee Shop

Sideshoots - associated subjects => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: grahame on November 24, 2020, 02:26:50 pm



Title: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: grahame on November 24, 2020, 02:26:50 pm
Single vehicle passenger trains from .... well - can you place the countries?

1.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wmad01a.jpg)

2.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wmad02a.jpg)

3.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wmad03a.jpg)

4.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wmad04a.jpg)

5.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wmad05a.jpg)

6.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wmad06a.jpg)

7.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wmad07a.jpg)


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: stuving on November 24, 2020, 02:42:22 pm
No. 2 is a genuine Micheline - indeed the original one - from France in the 1930s. They had a brief burst of popularity, in various shapes and sizes, before the disadvantages proved too hard to overcome.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: Witham Bobby on November 24, 2020, 03:56:04 pm
Number 3 - Tralee & Dingwall Railway.  Lost, and long-lamented


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 24, 2020, 04:17:34 pm
7 Germany.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: rogerpatenall on November 24, 2020, 04:50:48 pm
4. Budd railcar for the Baltimore & Ohio. US


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: froome on November 24, 2020, 05:18:47 pm
Number 3 - Tralee & Dingwall Railway.  Lost, and long-lamented

A railway running from Tralee to Dingwall would be very impressive!  ;)

I think you might mean Tralee and Dingle.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: bradshaw on November 24, 2020, 06:39:27 pm
Number 7 Morecambe, when the line to Lancaster was electrified using 6.6Kv OHLE


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: grahame on November 24, 2020, 06:56:43 pm
This is a strange bunch I have put together.

1 -
2 - France (I didn't actually know this one, but I'm sure you're right
3 - Ireland though NOT on the Tralee and Dingle. In the final years of narrow gauge lines in Ireland, newer stock tended to be move on from one line to another as they closed or demand changed, and it's quite possible that this railcar ran for a time out of Tralee, or even originated on that line.
4 - USA
5 -
6 -
7 - Not Germany; not UK either


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: stuving on November 24, 2020, 07:44:20 pm
Halfway down this page about (irrelevantly) Cambrdge on disused stations (http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/cambridge/index6.shtml), there's a quite detailed section on some Michelines visiting Britain, and similar railcars being made here.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: TonyK on November 24, 2020, 07:51:57 pm
I would take a punt at Argentina for number 1, given the colour scheme and the thing for stopping moo-cows going under.
Number 5 - Lausanne, Switzerland?


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: AMLAG on November 24, 2020, 07:57:50 pm
3 = County Donegal


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: TonyK on November 24, 2020, 08:00:23 pm
Number 7 Morecambe, when the line to Lancaster was electrified using 6.6Kv OHLE

A bit further east, maybe?


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: eightonedee on November 24, 2020, 08:22:19 pm
Having been intrigued by no 1. I spent a few moments on Google, from which I think it is Madagascar


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: stuving on November 25, 2020, 12:03:48 am
Having been intrigued by no 1. I spent a few moments on Google, from which I think it is Madagascar

Guess what? Another Micheline! Also linked to no.4, as made by Carel et Fouch? who licensed Budd's manufacturing process, and were later taken over by them and churned out all those stainless steel carriages for TEEs and the SNCF EMUs - some of which may still just about be in service.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: Oxonhutch on November 25, 2020, 08:30:35 am
In 1961, the Isle of Man Railway purchased two railcars from the County Donegal Railways and they became IMR numbers 19 and 20 in their fleet. No. 3 looks like one of those vehicles but the location of the photograph is not the Isle of Man. We shunned them in the early '60s on the now long closed Peel line as they were 'dirty diesels' as as opposed to our beloved Manx Peacocks - one of whom shares our family name. The railcars have quite a cult following and I now regret not having had the experience of travelling in them. The driving cab - motor car part was built in Wigan - the carriage articulated bogie in Ireland.

I have seen No. 2 photo before and I believe it is on trial somewhere around Oxford but I haven't yet found my correct book.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2020, 08:40:09 am
In 1961, the Isle of Man Railway purchased two railcars from the County Donegal Railways and they became IMR numbers 19 and 20 in their fleet. No. 3 looks like one of those vehicles but the location of the photograph is not the Isle of Man. We shunned them in the early '60s on the now long closed Peel line as they were 'dirty diesels' as as opposed to our beloved Manx Peacocks - one of whom shares our family name. The railcars have quite a cult following and I now regret not having had the experience of travelling in them. The driving cab - motor car part was built in Wigan - the carriage articulated bogie in Ireland.

I have seen No. 2 photo before and I believe it is on trial somewhere around Oxford but I haven't yet found my correct book.

I was updating while you wrote ....

1 - Madagascar
2 - France
3 - Ireland (Country Donegal)
4 - USA
5 - Switzerland (Lausanne)
6 - No guesses yet Stop press - not Oxford
7 - Not Germany; not UK either

The Ireland picture is Killybegs - 99.9% sure.  Pity they gave no more than a stay of execution to the Peel and Ramsey lines on the Isle of Man which remains a railway Mecca in spite of those losses.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 25, 2020, 12:49:20 pm
Are we sure 2 is France? It has English writing on the side (with American spellings).


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2020, 01:12:32 pm
Are we sure 2 is France? It has English writing on the side (with American spellings).

No, well, I am not sure.  I had "most likely" in my mind for USA initially, but accepted the authority of members who know more than me to swing the pendulum to "probably" for France.  Jury still out.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: stuving on November 25, 2020, 01:18:11 pm
Are we sure 2 is France? It has English writing on the side (with American spellings).

No, well, I am not sure.  I had "most likely" in my mind for USA initially, but accepted the authority of members who know more than me to swing the pendulum to "probably" for France.  Jury still out.

Well, I did rather sneakily say it was from France. If you look at the disused stations page I linked to, it says, under a similar picture:
Quote
The above image shows the Type 9 railcar at Ascot, Southern Railway. It is known to have also operated in the Leamington Spa area and between Oxford (Rewley Road) and Bletchley. There is no record of this particular railcar operating to Cambridge. The railcar was articulated with a six-wheel bogie at the front and, despite appearances, a four-wheel bogie at the rear (earlier examples had a single axle at the rear).

I think that four-wheel rear bogie is visible in the quiz picture.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: TonyK on November 25, 2020, 01:40:06 pm
I have seen number 7 on another site, I think. Estonia or Lithuania?


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 25, 2020, 03:52:49 pm
Are we sure 2 is France? It has English writing on the side (with American spellings).

No, well, I am not sure.  I had "most likely" in my mind for USA initially, but accepted the authority of members who know more than me to swing the pendulum to "probably" for France.  Jury still out.

Well, I did rather sneakily say it was from France. If you look at the disused stations page I linked to, it says, under a similar picture:
Quote
The above image shows the Type 9 railcar at Ascot, Southern Railway. It is known to have also operated in the Leamington Spa area and between Oxford (Rewley Road) and Bletchley. There is no record of this particular railcar operating to Cambridge. The railcar was articulated with a six-wheel bogie at the front and, despite appearances, a four-wheel bogie at the rear (earlier examples had a single axle at the rear).

I think that four-wheel rear bogie is visible in the quiz picture.
How sneaky. I thought the writing on the board was 'Running on Michelin pneumatic tires' but it's a bit blurry, maybe it is actually 'tyres'.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: TonyK on November 25, 2020, 04:30:08 pm
7. Elektriraudtee , Estonia.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2020, 04:34:51 pm
I have seen number 7 on another site, I think. Estonia or Lithuania?

7. Elektriraudtee , Estonia.

Hmmm ... I picked up as Lithuania ...  certainly the Baltic States.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2020, 04:53:46 pm
I have seen number 7 on another site, I think. Estonia or Lithuania?

7. Elektriraudtee , Estonia.

Hmmm ... I picked up as Lithuania ...  certainly the Baltic States.


My apology, yes, Estonia!


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: stuving on November 25, 2020, 05:57:26 pm
The question asked for the countries these vehicles are from, rather then where the pictures were taken, so for no.2 which had been sent visiting some confusion is inevitable. Adding the place within the country is a bit more of a problem, so maybe it's as well that wasn't the question.

I had no. 6 down as Swiss, very, but was surprised by Lausanne. I had that as more of a trolleybus sort of place, though it turns out there is one extram line (to Bercher). That particular tram was made for Geneva but left after only six years, then spent 44 years in Lausanne and 23 on the Bex-Villars?Bretaye line. But its last 44 years have been in the Blonay-Chamby museaum, which is part of the (still extensive) extram system around Montreux-Vevey. It was restored as a Lausanne tram, but is it from Lausanne?


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2020, 06:03:34 pm
The question asked for the countries these vehicles are from, rather than where the pictures were taken ....


That's fair comment and a far woollier question, perhaps, than I should have asked.  Of course, the very point of trains (or single vehicles) is that they move around  ;D and through their lifetime many of these vehicles have seen service in many lines and perhaps in many regions and even countries.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: Alan Pettitt on November 25, 2020, 10:00:42 pm
6 - UK (Brush Traction Loughborough) pictured in Taunton.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2020, 10:16:41 pm
6 - UK (Brush Traction Loughborough) pictured in Taunton.

Indeed ... we had to have a picture of Taunton.  Tricky one though!


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: froome on November 26, 2020, 07:42:16 am
6 - UK (Brush Traction Loughborough) pictured in Taunton.

Indeed ... we had to have a picture of Taunton.  Tricky one though!

The bendy main street should have given it away. Indeed, my first thought when I saw the picture was that it looked just like how Taunton's main street must have once looked, there can't be many others that bend round quite as much.


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: grahame on November 26, 2020, 10:26:24 am
From Wikipedia - the rise and fall of Taunton's trams

Quote
The Taunton and West Somerset Electric Railways and Tramways Company was incorporated in 1900 as a subsidiary of British Electric Traction. Despite plans to build a network to neighbouring towns including Wiveliscombe, Wellington and North Petherton it started small with a route from Taunton railway station to the town centre. This route of about 1 mile (1.6 km) opened on 2 August 1901. It became apparent that the large network proposed would not be built and so the company changed its name to the Taunton Electric Traction Company in 1903.

Quote
The company was notified that the price of electricity would rise. The company refused to pay this so a court order was taken out against them to nullify the agreement to supply them with power. The company offered to sell the tramway to the town but this was refused. Instead the electricity was cut off on 28 May 1921.

Were any other tramways so short-lived?

Should we arrange any sort of centenary wake?

Should trams be brought back to Taunton or anywhere else in the area?


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: Oxonhutch on November 26, 2020, 11:59:01 am
Me wonders if they regressed to horse traction after the plug was pulled - certainly the most dramatic termination of a city tramway I have come across, other than Coventry!

Going back to No. 2 and our Michelin Mark 9, Warwickshire Railways (https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrwm421.htm) share the same photograph and names the locality as Widney Manor station, near Solihull on the old GWR. The bank on which the men are seen standing ties in with a cattle dock on the National Library of Scotland map (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.543333333333305&lat=52.39707&lon=-1.77457&layers=168&b=1). I think the work in the foreground, including the light railway track and sleeper pile, is connected with the four-tracking of the line that occurred after the map I linked was published. Does anyone have a date for this four-tracking?


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: stuving on November 26, 2020, 04:44:27 pm
Going back to No. 2 and our Michelin Mark 9, Warwickshire Railways (https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrwm421.htm) share the same photograph and names the locality as Widney Manor station, near Solihull on the old GWR. The bank on which the men are seen standing ties in with a cattle dock on the National Library of Scotland map (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.543333333333305&lat=52.39707&lon=-1.77457&layers=168&b=1). I think the work in the foreground, including the light railway track and sleeper pile, is connected with the four-tracking of the line that occurred after the map I linked was published. Does anyone have a date for this four-tracking?

Seek - in Warwickshire Railways (https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/olton-to-lapworth.htm) - and ye shall find! A full-page article of December 1933, describing the newly-completed work "Olton to Lapworth - Quadrupling Birmingham Main Line". The Knowle and Dorridge station page suggests the work started in 1932, but if the picture shows preparatory ground clearance before February 1932 that fits.

But I think the dates of events and pictures of the various Micheline types are misleading, even if accurate. They were churning out several new ones each year, rarely two the same, so the one pictured could as well be a type 8 or 10 - or even 11. Note the rear door which can't be used with a bogie at the rear. And when or whether they were "in service" or "on trial" is barely relevant as the whole production lasted only five years and the "atomic jelly baby" type 16s were out scaring the hoses by 1933. The best set of pictures, though short on words, is this slide show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7BNE_3p2xQ).


Title: Re: Single vehicle passenger trains from ....
Post by: eightonedee on November 26, 2020, 06:51:33 pm
merci Stuving!



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net