Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => Thames Valley Branches => Topic started by: paul7575 on December 08, 2020, 02:10:17 pm



Title: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: paul7575 on December 08, 2020, 02:10:17 pm
Seems to be hard to track down previous stuff about this, (the upcoming operation of HEx by GWR 387s is covered in the TfL section ??? for some strange reason), but this morning saw two 332 units hauled to Sims at Newport for scrap.  Another was taken by road to be scrapped a few weeks ago.

I?d anticipate they?ll all be gone by Christmas.

Paul


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: grahame on December 08, 2020, 02:23:23 pm
Seems to be hard to track down previous stuff about this, (the upcoming operation of HEx by GWR 387s is covered in the TfL section ??? for some strange reason), but this morning saw two 332 units hauled to Sims at Newport for scrap.  Another was taken by road to be scrapped a few weeks ago.

I?d anticipate they?ll all be gone by Christmas.

Paul

Noting the potential need for a thread move. Hands full at the moment but will take a look afterwards.

Going wider, noting pictures of class 153 units (? carriages) in "long term store" in Burton-on-Trent; reminds me off where we started with 153s in store at Eastleigh while there was a cry for more services in certain places.   


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 08, 2020, 02:29:46 pm
I think they're keeping a few until early next year to allow for any cock-ups during the transition phase, but training and testing of the 387s is largely complete I believe.  Complete enough to run a full service at least.

Obviously a young age to send a train for scrap at just over 20 years, especially an EMU, but they are in a pretty knackered state. 


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: rogerw on December 08, 2020, 03:41:50 pm
Parts are being recovered for use in the similar west Yorkshire units


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: stuving on December 08, 2020, 05:37:16 pm
Seems to be hard to track down previous stuff about this, (the upcoming operation of HEx by GWR 387s is covered in the TfL section ??? for some strange reason), but this morning saw two 332 units hauled to Sims at Newport for scrap.  Another was taken by road to be scrapped a few weeks ago.

I?d anticipate they?ll all be gone by Christmas.

Paul

Noting the potential need for a thread move. Hands full at the moment but will take a look afterwards.

The other board was renamed less than to years ago  see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=21106.0. Grahame's rationale was:
Quote
As of 24th February (2019 for anyone finding this is the archive), some Coffee Shop boards have been re-arranged.  This board which was formerly Heathrow Express, Connect etc has been widened to cover any and all Transport for London services ... bearing in mind just how many of our members connect onwards to TfL services, and how TfL services are coming onto the lines out from Paddington too.   Heathrow services which are moving or have moved to GWR will be rehomed under Thames Valley Branches

So should it have been transport in London, rather than Transport For London? Heathrow is at least in Greater London ...


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: eightonedee on December 08, 2020, 06:56:32 pm
It does seem a little daft bearing in mind that a lot of money is being spent on the considerably 319s turning them (very slowly!) into 769s.

I have no doubt there is a practical reason why they could not have been converted, or indeed why someone could not add ancillary diesel engines to 387s to fill the same need. I'll let those who understand these things explain!


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: stuving on December 08, 2020, 07:00:25 pm
It does seem a little daft bearing in mind that a lot of money is being spent on the considerably 319s turning them (very slowly!) into 769s.

I have no doubt there is a practical reason why they could not have been converted, or indeed why someone could not add ancillary diesel engines to 387s to fill the same need. I'll let those who understand these things explain!

Perhaps the main reason is that there are too few of them (14), with too little in common with other fleets to make them a good prospect for maintenance.


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on December 08, 2020, 08:06:48 pm
It does seem a little daft bearing in mind that a lot of money is being spent on the considerably 319s turning them (very slowly!) into 769s.

I have no doubt there is a practical reason why they could not have been converted, or indeed why someone could not add ancillary diesel engines to 387s to fill the same need. I'll let those who understand these things explain!

Perhaps the main reason is that there are too few of them (14), with too little in common with other fleets to make them a good prospect for maintenance.
Also they are only equipped with the Western's version of ATP. If they were to be used anywhere else then that would have to be stripped out and replaced by AWS/TPWS. For only 14 units would that be worth it?


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: Electric train on December 08, 2020, 08:10:55 pm
It does seem a little daft bearing in mind that a lot of money is being spent on the considerably 319s turning them (very slowly!) into 769s.

I have no doubt there is a practical reason why they could not have been converted, or indeed why someone could not add ancillary diesel engines to 387s to fill the same need. I'll let those who understand these things explain!

Perhaps the main reason is that there are too few of them (14), with too little in common with other fleets to make them a good prospect for maintenance.

The units have had problems with the bogies, the body shells are quite badly corroded.  At 20 years old hey would be due for a half life overhaul about now which BAA perhaps do not wish to fund, also the depot at OOC has to go to make way for HS2 which BAA would have to part fund the build of a new depot plus all the route clearance involved.  Whereas the 387 operated by GWR for BAA is a much more cost effective option


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 08, 2020, 08:13:02 pm
Also they are only equipped with the Western's version of ATP. If they were to be used anywhere else then that would have to be stripped out and replaced by AWS/TPWS. For only 14 units would that be worth it?

Given the likelihood of many other EMUs being surplus to requirements in the next couple of years that are younger, in better condition and more suitable, I think the answer is definitely no.


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: grahame on January 20, 2021, 12:39:32 pm
Thread probably needs a rename / merge ...

From Breaking Travel News (https://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/heathrow-express-launches-first-fleet-refresh-in-two-decades/)

Quote
Heathrow Express launches first fleet refresh in two decades

Heathrow Express has launched a newly refurbished fleet of 12 Class 387 trains, the first refresh since the service launched over 20 years ago.

In keeping with Heathrow Express? sustainability values, the fleet has been up-cycled from GWR, with upgraded interiors fitted out to a high and exacting standard.

The trains also have regenerative braking which mean trains slow by electric motor rather than brake shoes and discs.


Article continues ... on passenger facilities ...

Quote
Passengers will also have a more comfortable journey with more space for wheelchair users, double the number of toilets and a continuous gangway through the whole train.

Replacing the old Class 332s, the new fleet will provide Heathrow passengers with an unrivalled 15-minute journey with an even better and more reliable journey with plenty of space, luggage storage and fast on-board 4G enabled Wi-Fi, which will work continuously across Heathrow.

The modern interiors include USB plugs with every plug socket, making it easier for international passengers to charge devices while they travel.

Every carriage has more and improved TV screens showing live flight and rail connection updates, daily news highlights and shopping deals at Heathrow.


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 20, 2021, 01:31:58 pm
And better acceleration and an extra 10mph top speed to help slightly with punctuality.

I still don't think Heathrow Express will be running for too long after the Elizabeth Line services start up, unless as part of the Western Rail Link to Heathrow...though that has gone a little quiet lately.


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: Ralph Ayres on January 20, 2021, 04:03:57 pm
Hadn't realised HEx had on-board toilets. Certainly not needed on that length of journey but I suppose for their target market (some of whom will pay an extra tenner for First Class for a 15 minute journey on a train that's rarely crowded even in normal times) it probably helps to go on the move as it were having dashed to the train from a taxi, rather than wasting precious time using the facilities at either end!


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: Electric train on January 20, 2021, 04:10:44 pm
And better acceleration and an extra 10mph top speed to help slightly with punctuality.

I still don't think Heathrow Express will be running for too long after the Elizabeth Line services start up, unless as part of the Western Rail Link to Heathrow...though that has gone a little quiet lately.

You could be right, although they may retain a semi fast service to Heathrow


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: CyclingSid on January 21, 2021, 07:04:55 am
Quote
Hadn't realised HEx had on-board toilets. Certainly not needed on that length of journey but I suppose for their target market (some of whom will pay an extra tenner for First Class for a 15 minute journey on a train that's rarely crowded even in normal times) it probably helps to go on the move as it were having dashed to the train from a taxi, rather than wasting precious time using the facilities at either end!

But no toilets on the Elizabeth Line, for a far longer journey. If you have dashed from the car park to the train on the commute (sorry should this be in the historical topic) it could be a long time to cross your legs before you can use the facilities at the other end.


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: didcotdean on January 21, 2021, 02:22:22 pm
The HEX also has to cater for those whose digestive systems are catching up with them after a long flight.


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: paul7575 on February 11, 2021, 03:34:03 pm
They’re nearly all gone to scrap now.  At least one carriage of 332001 is apparently being used as a “gate guard” at Siemens new Goole factory, but 10 units have now gone to Sims Newport, one to Sims Peterborough, and I reckon only 2 remain, probably to go next week.

Paul


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: GWR 158 on February 11, 2021, 04:36:12 pm
Didn't they go to Newport docks hauled by top and tailed class 66s? Shame there leaving if i'm honest.


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: grahame on February 22, 2021, 10:36:53 am
May be worth a topic split ... 332s (Heathrow Express) for scrap, 360 (Heathrow connect) - new life for freight?
From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2021/02/rail-operations-uk-purchase-ex-heathrow-express-class-360-2-trains.html)

Quote
Rail Operations UK Limited (ROUK) have agreed with Heathrow Airport Limited to purchase five Class 360/2, along with spares.

ROUK see these Class 360/2 play a role in changing rail freight logistics across the UK in the years to come.

Heathrow Express, owned by Heathrow Airport Limited, operated these units on the Heathrow Airport to London Paddington “Heathrow Connect” service.


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: paul7575 on February 22, 2021, 11:32:26 am
Didn't they go to Newport docks hauled by top and tailed class 66s? Shame there leaving if i'm honest.
Yes. Sims Newport is in Newport Docks.


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: PrestburyRoad on February 22, 2021, 02:18:31 pm
Quote
Rail Operations UK Limited (ROUK) have agreed with Heathrow Airport Limited to purchase five Class 360/2, along with spares.
ROUK see these Class 360/2 play a role in changing rail freight logistics across the UK in the years to come.

I wonder if they will be converted to be similar to the class 325 used for Royal Mail? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_325 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_325)


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: BBM on February 22, 2021, 08:53:03 pm
Quote
Rail Operations UK Limited (ROUK) have agreed with Heathrow Airport Limited to purchase five Class 360/2, along with spares.
ROUK see these Class 360/2 play a role in changing rail freight logistics across the UK in the years to come.

I wonder if they will be converted to be similar to the class 325 used for Royal Mail? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_325 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_325)

Some Class 319s are being converted to freight & parcels use for Orion High Speed Logistics:

https://www.keymodernrailways.com/article/orion-unveils-parcels-319 (https://www.keymodernrailways.com/article/orion-unveils-parcels-319)


Title: Re: Heathrow Express 332s
Post by: stuving on February 22, 2021, 10:29:36 pm
Quote
Rail Operations UK Limited (ROUK) have agreed with Heathrow Airport Limited to purchase five Class 360/2, along with spares.
ROUK see these Class 360/2 play a role in changing rail freight logistics across the UK in the years to come.

I wonder if they will be converted to be similar to the class 325 used for Royal Mail? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_325 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_325)

Some Class 319s are being converted to freight & parcels use for Orion High Speed Logistics:

https://www.keymodernrailways.com/article/orion-unveils-parcels-319 (https://www.keymodernrailways.com/article/orion-unveils-parcels-319)

More on this and other contenders in this thread (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=23095.msg284667#msg284667).



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