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All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: infoman on February 23, 2021, 06:27:01 am



Title: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: infoman on February 23, 2021, 06:27:01 am
in the turn up on the day scenario,could not find anything in the PM's statement.Or is it a case of waiting till monday 21st june

[edit - grahame] - I have added the key dates as they are planned at the moment (25.2.2021) to the calendar on this thread.   Read further down this thread for answers / details / follow ups.


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: grahame on February 23, 2021, 07:00:55 am
in the turn up on the day scenario,could not find anything in the PM's statement.Or is it a case of waiting till monday 21st june

Essential use only at present

Use train to get to / from school from 8th March

Lockdown and legal limits end on 29th March; you can use the train or bus - but not stay away and limited what you can do at destination.

From 12th April, you can also start away at a holiday let or your second or third home. Theme parks, zoos, outdoor eating re-opened so train a bit more useful

From 17th May, hotels, cinemas, etc,  open; international travel allowed (depending on the destination country) . Two households can meet indoors, so train more useful again to visit friends, etc.  Also major sporting venues open though some limited on crowds

From 21st June, remaining hospitality to re-open and most restrictions removed. 

Various social distancing and other reviews along the way - unclear / not yet decided on social distancing into the future, nor on facemask rules - to go, or with us permanently?

All dates are "at the earliest" - may slip if medical numbers aren't working




Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: infoman on February 23, 2021, 07:21:52 am
Many thanks Grahame


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: grahame on February 23, 2021, 07:47:30 am
And alongside those changes ... what changes will there be to what GWR is running?

8th March - a handful of extra trains to support school journeys

Easterish - some re-instatement of needed trains

16th May - summer timetable changes as discussed at various meetings a month ago. 
To be finalised "early March". 

Key expectations for the summer of 2021
* Remains just hourly to South Wales (some extras London - Bristol Parkway for operational reasons)
* South Cotswold line (Swindon - Cheltenham) running as a shuttle off peak, not through to London
* No superfasts
* Saturdays - more extensions to Weston-super-mare; Pembroke Dock and Newquay to run (if can be staffed)
* Saturdays - core hourly Westbury - Gloucester, some cut back of extended services. Extra DMH calls in CDF-PMH
* Sundays - no more changes planned; reductions in place already for BRI works to remain.
No specific confirmation I can recall, but I think Paddington to Bristol may be back to half hourly, and London - via Taunton back to hourly express and every-two-hours semifast from May

December 2021 - bids in to Network Rail by July. Changes expected to be very limited in scope nationally.  So it would be a surprise if there's super fasts in early 2022.

And also ...
Okehampton looks like it's getting closer ...
I will be very interested to see what happens to fares on 1st March - i.e. what it will cost us to travel


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: Lee on February 23, 2021, 10:08:52 am
in the turn up on the day scenario,could not find anything in the PM's statement.Or is it a case of waiting till monday 21st june

Various social distancing and other reviews along the way - unclear / not yet decided on social distancing into the future, nor on facemask rules - to go, or with us permanently?

Personally, I would think twice about ever coming back to the UK (hooray! say some) if face masks were permanently required. Even here in France where some of the more stringent measures have been put in place (papers required, curfew etc), President Macron has clearly said on numerous occasions that face mask rules will be lifted as soon as it is possible to do so, with "summer" often mentioned with regard to the timeframe.

In overall terms, you have to look at what you believe the primary function of a government actually is - Should a government's first role be to keep us safe, or should it be to keep us free?

My personal view is that in all but the most extreme of circumstances, such as war, or the midst of a deadly global pandemic as we are now, a government's first role should be to keep us free, and as life gradually returns to "normal", one should be very wary of the functionary, armed with reams of data on how accepting the population was of restrictions, who says "you know what, some of the measures we put in place would be eminently sensible to keep in place going forward..."


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: ChrisB on February 23, 2021, 10:43:42 am
Prof Witty did say in Boris's presser last night that he expected masks to be a likely requirement across next winter's virus season....


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: ChrisB on February 23, 2021, 12:03:17 pm
Hancock appeared on Breakfast TV and says it is "too early to say" how long social distancing measures will need to be in place.

But that he wants it to become "social norms" rather than through legislation that people would, for example, chose to wear face masks if they were travelling on public transport.

Hancock is also asked about the end of the stay-at-home rule on 29 March, and what this means for non-essential travel, such as visiting family.

He says: "On 29 March there will still be guidance to stay local and by law you will not be able to stay overnight elsewhere.

"Hopefully.... we will then get to the position [in April] that people can stay overnight."


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: infoman on February 23, 2021, 12:12:58 pm
Stay local is a bit loose,
I presume most of us in the west area could travel to Weymouth for the day?


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: grahame on February 23, 2021, 12:37:05 pm
Stay local is a bit loose,
I presume most of us in the west area could travel to Weymouth for the day?

I have been on the phone around the MRUG team this morning, and the subject of spring and summer promotion / what people may and may not be allowed and/or encouraged to do or not do.

Personally, and assuming the dates stick, no more than a short hop on public transport over Easter - train or bus in one direction and walk or cycle back, which gives you my idea of "local" - and it's not Weymouth.   That's from Melksham - if you're in Yeovil I could give you Weymouth as local.

There is a danger that the meek will follow the spirit of the request, with others not so inclined pushing the boat out; we save summer crowds on beaches last summer, and those were not the meek and cautious - having said which, it's suggested that neither beach crowds nor public transport were "superspreaders" or even spreaders.

Noting that GWR enhancements for the summer to Newquay and to Pembroke Dock are in the plans for this summer, but from reading through extras to Weymouth on Saturdays and Sundays are not.  Let's see early next month when we should have more details of what's planned from mid May.



Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: REVUpminster on February 23, 2021, 04:58:23 pm
Torbay was packed last summer with day visitors and staycationers, and there was no increase in virus.

As soon as people could fly abroad; 500,000 did and the new variant appeared. It is only called the UK variant/Kent variant because we identified it first. People are already booking up to go abroad and they don't even know if they can although Greece has been making overtures.

In March we had to bring home 3 million people and no wonder we were the worst in Europe. Before then there were three regular flights a week between Heathrow and Wuhan. The country had no chance of locking down or isolating so many people.


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: CyclingSid on February 24, 2021, 06:50:14 am
Mutterings in the press of a reshuffle. End of Hancock's Half Hour, to be replaced by Gove??


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: grahame on February 25, 2021, 09:53:25 am
I have added all the dates (described as "not earlier than" by the government) to the top of this thread:
* School (travel) returns: March 08, 2021
* You can use the train/bus: March 29, 2021
* You can stay away (but limits): April 12, 2021
* You can travel international: May 17, 2021
* Back to (almost) normal: June 21, 2021

Summarising in other terms for trips away:
Day trips allowed from 29th March (but encouragement to keep them local)
You can stay away / self catering with just your bubble from 12th April
Hotels can re-open but with customer separation, etc, from 17th May
Almost everything normally open from 21st June. Some limits on weddings, mask requirements remain

In parallel with these travel and staying away relaxations, there is a phase re-opening and stepping up towards full service of none-essential businesses, attraction, pubs and restaurants, sporting venues, etc - so as we progress, there will become more reasons to travel too.  After all, for most people their travel is more about going to DO something rather than the travel itself.

Small print - I am not an expert on these things and this post purely describes things as I understand them. Please check with official sources if you are in any doubt


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: ChrisB on February 25, 2021, 11:26:13 am
You forget that non-essential retail opens (no earlier than) on April 12th too - likely to be a generator of rail custom....

'Local' to me is as local as your nearest object of your going out - shops, exercise area, etc....and no further. So your local town that sells what you want, your local sports centre/park for exercise. etc.


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: Jamsdad on February 25, 2021, 01:06:57 pm
The ' Local" term has only ever been in the Guidance. The Guidance has no legal standing .The legalities are  as defined in the Conronovirus Regulations, a statutory instrument  issued by the Secretary of State, where  there is no mention whatsoever  about local or non local.


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: ChrisB on February 25, 2021, 02:54:47 pm
Indeed, but the guidance is there for a very good reason. The vast majority adhere so far.


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: Jamsdad on February 25, 2021, 04:21:20 pm
Apart from Derbyshire Police who have demonstrated a notable lack of understanding of the difference between guidance and regulations.


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: ChrisB on February 25, 2021, 04:43:57 pm
Pretty much off-topic as that isn't in any way related to railways


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: grahame on February 25, 2021, 04:59:03 pm
Pretty much off-topic as that isn't in any way related to railways

Come, come ... as I recall the Derbyshire issue included as a key element definition of what the word "local" meant - and that relates to the boundaries of travel.  In addition to the attempt (as I read it) to enforce guidance as if it was law.

The "local" definition is an interesting one, indeed.  As guidance / encouragement it's probably a good word to be using, and it'll tend to "busy up" buses, local and regional trains relative to long distance trains and coaches.


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: Lee on March 21, 2021, 11:35:37 pm
in the turn up on the day scenario,could not find anything in the PM's statement.Or is it a case of waiting till monday 21st june

Various social distancing and other reviews along the way - unclear / not yet decided on social distancing into the future, nor on facemask rules - to go, or with us permanently?

Personally, I would think twice about ever coming back to the UK (hooray! say some) if face masks were permanently required. Even here in France where some of the more stringent measures have been put in place (papers required, curfew etc), President Macron has clearly said on numerous occasions that face mask rules will be lifted as soon as it is possible to do so, with "summer" often mentioned with regard to the timeframe.

In overall terms, you have to look at what you believe the primary function of a government actually is - Should a government's first role be to keep us safe, or should it be to keep us free?

My personal view is that in all but the most extreme of circumstances, such as war, or the midst of a deadly global pandemic as we are now, a government's first role should be to keep us free, and as life gradually returns to "normal", one should be very wary of the functionary, armed with reams of data on how accepting the population was of restrictions, who says "you know what, some of the measures we put in place would be eminently sensible to keep in place going forward..."

Excellent news for those who hope I never darken the UK's door again:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56475807

Quote
Covid: Masks and social distancing 'could last years'

People may need to wear face coverings and socially distance for several years until we return to normality, a leading epidemiologist has predicted.

Mary Ramsay, the head of immunisation at Public Health England, said basic measures could be in place until other countries successfully roll out jabs.

She also said a return of big spectator events required careful monitoring and clear instructions about staying safe.

The defence secretary has not ruled out the foreign holiday ban being extended.

Ben Wallace told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show that booking a break abroad now would be "premature" and "potentially risky".

The UK set another record for the number of coronavirus vaccine doses given in a single day on Saturday, with 844,285 jabs.

Dr Ramsay said restrictions such as face coverings in crowded places and social distancing had become accepted by many and still allowed the economy to function.

She said "people have got used to those lower-level restrictions now, and people can live with them, and the economy can still go on with those less severe restrictions in place".

"So I think certainly for a few years, at least until other parts of the world are as well vaccinated as we are, and the numbers have come down everywhere, that is when we may be able to go very gradually back to a more normal situation," she added.


Warning it was "very important that we do not relax too quickly", Dr Ramsay said any circulating virus would inevitably pick on those who are vulnerable.

"We have to look very carefully before any of these restrictions are lifted," she said.

Slippery slope...


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: CyclingSid on March 22, 2021, 06:53:07 am
Quote
keep us free?
Like most things, open to interpretation, from a public health point of view; keep us free from infection?


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: Lee on March 22, 2021, 07:11:09 am
Quote
keep us free?
Like most things, open to interpretation, from a public health point of view; keep us free from infection?

To be clear, I have NEVER had a problem with following sensible rules on preventing Covid infection. I have scrupulously washed my hands, social distanced, and worn my mask without question in enclosed/indoor public spaces and on public transport where it is obvious that such measures could make a genuine difference.

The problem is, to give an example,  just this week our county has been hit by a blanket mask order where we have to put one on the moment we walk out the door, regardless of whether we live in the biggest town or the remotest hamlet.

I live in a town of less than 3000 people that never gets crowded and it is wrong, plain wrong, and a genuine assault on people's freedom, led by politicians and people like Ms Ramsey who have probably always felt we should act this way with flu epidemics and the like, and now feel "their time has come."

If this results in people getting so fed up that they end up electing extremists like Marine Le Pen, then they will only have themselves to blame.


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: ChrisB on March 22, 2021, 11:36:32 am
To be clear, I have NEVER had a problem with following sensible rules on preventing Covid infection. I have scrupulously washed my hands

Read the research - the number of infections picked up by touching is infinitelyu small - it's all to do with the aerosols being breathed in


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: Lee on March 22, 2021, 12:02:48 pm
To be clear, I have NEVER had a problem with following sensible rules on preventing Covid infection. I have scrupulously washed my hands

Read the research - the number of infections picked up by touching is infinitelyu small - it's all to do with the aerosols being breathed in

If you hadnt cropped my quote like a muppet which went on to mention my wearing a mask indoors and social distancing... you seem to be on a bit of a wind up quest recently with your forum posts in general.


Title: Re: any indication of when we can get back on the trains?
Post by: ChrisB on March 22, 2021, 12:08:22 pm
I was simply pointing out that the advice to wash your hands is quite simply pretty much useless. In other words, I was agreeing with you.



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