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Journey by Journey => Plymouth and Cornwall => Topic started by: GWR 158 on March 04, 2021, 08:46:48 am



Title: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: GWR 158 on March 04, 2021, 08:46:48 am
What stock operates what services on the Devon and Cornwall branch lines? I have heard there are a few class 166s and 158s, but what about the class 150s?


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: grahame on March 04, 2021, 09:41:13 am
What stock operates what services on the Devon and Cornwall branch lines? I have heard there are a few class 166s and 158s, but what about the class 150s?

Reports of 158s are because of their rarity, and of 166s in Devon because of their novelty.

Here are some picture from Cornwall on a typical day last March

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/brac_c_1.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/brac_c_2.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/brac_c_3.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/brac_c_4.jpg)

If you take a look around at other threads, you'll find further pictures featuring 150s on all branches in Cornwall, including the cross border one that leaves the main line in Devon but terminates in Cornwall.


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: GWR 158 on March 04, 2021, 09:55:56 am
Thanks very much, nice pictures!


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: grahame on March 04, 2021, 09:59:46 am
For DEVON branches (yes, I know I am following up on the Cornwall board and may move things around) the situation is more complex.  Here are some pictures from last March, since which the trains as old as the dinosaurs have been replaced.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/brac_d_1.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/brac_d_2.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/brac_d_3.jpg)

You will now find a mixture.  Class 158 as the main units to Barnstaple, Class 150 as the main units to Exmouth and Paignton, and turbos (class 166 rather than 165, I believe) operating a handful of services to all three branch termini.  I need to go back to a previous laptop for pictures other than Exmouth.


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: GWR 158 on March 04, 2021, 10:00:04 am
Are the 150s refurbished?


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: GWR 158 on March 04, 2021, 10:01:03 am
Thanks, it's a shame in my opinion that the pacers have gone


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: grahame on March 04, 2021, 10:12:20 am
Are the 150s refurbished?

They don't strike me as being too bad internally ... I will leave it to others to give you an answer as to where they are in that cycle.  Not something I have intentionally pictured in the last couple of years, but here's an idea:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/brac_i_1.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/brac_i_2.jpg)


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: Lee on March 04, 2021, 10:14:23 am
For DEVON branches (yes, I know I am following up on the Cornwall board and may move things around) the situation is more complex.  Here are some pictures from last March, since which the trains as old as the dinosaurs have been replaced.

...by trains that were built around the same time, or at the most 5 or 6 years later  ;D


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: LiskeardRich on March 16, 2021, 10:11:18 am
  Here are some pictures from last March, since which the trains as old as the dinosaurs have been replaced.


The pacers were nowhere near as old as other stock still rolling about down here though!


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: RailCornwall on March 21, 2021, 09:58:01 pm
I'm wondering whether the industry needs to consider the development of new sets of rolling stock for branch lines. There's quite a lot of hand downs but new environmentally friendly stock (over and beyond Vivarail units) would be useful in helping the carbon neutrality aims going forward. Passenger comfort and services could be enhanced too, providing stock that could function over main lines regularly for Cornwall Metro type services. A sort of Junior Stadler Flirt would suit the role.


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: broadgage on March 22, 2021, 10:17:55 pm
Suitable "new" branch line stock could IMO be found by re use of existing and redundant EMUs, converted to battery operation, or possibly hybrid diesel/battery power.


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: Rhydgaled on May 03, 2021, 12:22:40 pm
I'm wondering whether the industry needs to consider the development of new sets of rolling stock for branch lines. There's quite a lot of hand downs but new environmentally friendly stock (over and beyond Vivarail units) would be useful in helping the carbon neutrality aims going forward. Passenger comfort and services could be enhanced too, providing stock that could function over main lines regularly for Cornwall Metro type services. A sort of Junior Stadler Flirt would suit the role.
Suitable "new" branch line stock could IMO be found by re use of existing and redundant EMUs, converted to battery operation, or possibly hybrid diesel/battery power.
Network Rail's Traction Decarbonisation Network Strategy (TDNS) suggests battery operation for all the Cornish branches except Newquay which it suggests should be electrified. However, there is no obvious means of charging the batteries except in the platform at the relevant junction stations with no under-wires running expected for these units. Should the TDNS be authorised for implementation by 2050, Great Britain already has far more CAF Civity DMUs (classes 195 and 196) than would be needed to operate all such routes - across the whole of Great Britain very few units would not spend part of their journey under the wires.


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: broadgage on May 14, 2021, 02:01:24 pm
Battery charging is fairly easy to arrange on routes that are non electrified throughout.
At the terminus, and at any places where the trains remain, install a short length of conductor rail, probably* at the standard "southern" voltage of 750 volts* DC.
To reduce the risk of accident, place this centrally between the running rails, and render it dead except when a train is over it.

Charging rate would depend on the available electricity supply, perhaps supplemented with PV modules.
A small but 11KV supply would allow charging at 250 Kw in the dark, or at 270 KW in dull daylight, or at 350 Kw in bright sun. A 100 KW PV array would fit on a large station or other building.

To allow for stabling away from the usual locations also design for plugging in to the mains with a suitable cable. A domestic 13 amp supply is SLIGHTLY better than nothing but only slightly as charging could take a week ! Even a 13 amp supply would allow use of the internal lighting, and of a couple of vacuum cleaners for servicing without any battery discharge.
A 3 phase 32 amp supply, available almost everywhere, would give a significant charge overnight.

*Or possibly a lower voltage since this would use standard transformers.
11 Kv transformers with a three phase 4 wire output at 250/433 volts are a low priced commodity item as vast numbers are used to provide the standard 230/400 volt supply used everywhere. Two such transformers, one with reversed polarity would produce a 6 phase supply, easy to rectify and connect to the conductor rail.
Apart from low cost, the other merits are that standard, off the shelf, grid tie PV inverters may be used to connect PV modules, and it MIGHT be acceptable to use the same transformers to supply other loads.


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: Lee on May 14, 2021, 03:19:41 pm
Battery charging is fairly easy to arrange on routes that are non electrified throughout.
At the terminus, and at any places where the trains remain, install a short length of conductor rail, probably* at the standard "southern" voltage of 750 volts* DC.
To reduce the risk of accident, place this centrally between the running rails, and render it dead except when a train is over it.

Charging rate would depend on the available electricity supply, perhaps supplemented with PV modules.
A small but 11KV supply would allow charging at 250 Kw in the dark, or at 270 KW in dull daylight, or at 350 Kw in bright sun. A 100 KW PV array would fit on a large station or other building.

To allow for stabling away from the usual locations also design for plugging in to the mains with a suitable cable. A domestic 13 amp supply is SLIGHTLY better than nothing but only slightly as charging could take a week ! Even a 13 amp supply would allow use of the internal lighting, and of a couple of vacuum cleaners for servicing without any battery discharge.
A 3 phase 32 amp supply, available almost everywhere, would give a significant charge overnight.

*Or possibly a lower voltage since this would use standard transformers.
11 Kv transformers with a three phase 4 wire output at 250/433 volts are a low priced commodity item as vast numbers are used to provide the standard 230/400 volt supply used everywhere. Two such transformers, one with reversed polarity would produce a 6 phase supply, easy to rectify and connect to the conductor rail.
Apart from low cost, the other merits are that standard, off the shelf, grid tie PV inverters may be used to connect PV modules, and it MIGHT be acceptable to use the same transformers to supply other loads.

Have you considered a career at Go-op?


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: Celestial on May 14, 2021, 04:19:39 pm

Have you considered a career at Go-op?
It would certainly then have a USP over other local train operators - a buffet car with port on sale.


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: REVUpminster on May 14, 2021, 04:59:04 pm
Battery charging is fairly easy to arrange on routes that are non electrified throughout.
At the terminus, and at any places where the trains remain, install a short length of conductor rail, probably* at the standard "southern" voltage of 750 volts* DC.
To reduce the risk of accident, place this centrally between the running rails, and render it dead except when a train is over it.

Charging rate would depend on the available electricity supply, perhaps supplemented with PV modules.
A small but 11KV supply would allow charging at 250 Kw in the dark, or at 270 KW in dull daylight, or at 350 Kw in bright sun. A 100 KW PV array would fit on a large station or other building.

To allow for stabling away from the usual locations also design for plugging in to the mains with a suitable cable. A domestic 13 amp supply is SLIGHTLY better than nothing but only slightly as charging could take a week ! Even a 13 amp supply would allow use of the internal lighting, and of a couple of vacuum cleaners for servicing without any battery discharge.
A 3 phase 32 amp supply, available almost everywhere, would give a significant charge overnight.

*Or possibly a lower voltage since this would use standard transformers.
11 Kv transformers with a three phase 4 wire output at 250/433 volts are a low priced commodity item as vast numbers are used to provide the standard 230/400 volt supply used everywhere. Two such transformers, one with reversed polarity would produce a 6 phase supply, easy to rectify and connect to the conductor rail.
Apart from low cost, the other merits are that standard, off the shelf, grid tie PV inverters may be used to connect PV modules, and it MIGHT be acceptable to use the same transformers to supply other loads.

Would the short turn round times on the branches allow enough time for a charge or even a boost if the train had been charging overnight in a depot.


Title: Re: Devon and Cornwall Branch Line Rolling stock
Post by: broadgage on May 17, 2021, 07:36:57 am
Even a short layover would help.
If a 250 Kw supply was available, then six minutes would give 25 KWH, a useful supplement to a full charge overnight. Ten such layovers per day would be a significant charging input.

And no I am not considering a career with the promoters. Whilst I see considerable merit in their proposals, I am rather doubtful that it will ever happen.



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