Great Western Coffee Shop

Some of our members really enjoyed the first of these quizzed comparing then and now services.

So here is a second set (and I have one more set to come) ... can you identify the line(s) and compare the service today - just one each, please, for the first 24 hours. As before, some obvious and some quite the opposite. I THINK I know which will go first - go on, prove me wrong by starting with the tough ones!

1.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ttq2_1.jpg)

2.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ttq2_2.jpg)

3.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ttq2_3.jpg)

4.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ttq2_4.jpg)

5.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ttq2_5.jpg)

6.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ttq2_6.jpg)

7.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ttq2_7.jpg)

8.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ttq2_8.jpg)

7 Maidenhead to High Wycombe possibly

I reckon 2. is Exeter Central, Exeter St David's, Yeoford to Okehampton, Tavistock, Bere Alston and Plymouth - and to Barnstaple and Ilfracombe.

Was that the easy one or one of the harder ones?

Yes, it is ... somewhere in the middle, Lee - very fully featured longer line(s) probably helps.

and


Yes, it is.

3. I think this is Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach.

If so, a couple of interesting points of difference from today are (i) a few services terminated at St Andrew's Road (perhaps because, at that time, they couldn't turn round at Avonmouth?), and (ii) a few services omitted Temple Meads (because they came off the Rhubarb Loop?).

1.Looks to me like the Heart of Wales line, because of the small number of trains per day and the presence of multiple connections at each end.

It is.   

I understand there used to be quite a flow of people to work in the Avonmouth / Stan Drew's area and it may be the trains went on there for passenger purposes even if they could have reversed at Avonmouth.   In those days, one Keynsham service ran from The Beach line in the morning and back in the evening - for chocolatiers living to the west of Bristol.  I think the other short working started at Lawrence Hill.


It is ... one of the few lines that has neither closed (though proposed) nor been unrecognisably enhanced.
Timetable should-have-been for 2020 at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/nrtt20summer/Table%20129.pdf

Yes, definitely a "count the stations" job. Note C was rather helpful too.

Definitely also got 5 and 8, maybe even 4 too...

24 hours more than up ... perhaps I posted the second quiz in this series too quickly and lost novelty value.  Lee, go ahead, take us through the board.

1 - Heart of Wales - PrestburyRoad
2 - Exeter to Plymouh and Ilfracombe - Lee
3 - Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach - Kempis
4 -
5 -
6 -
7 - Maidenhead to High Wycombe - Rogerw
8 -

Is 5 the Greenford branch?

I think 8 is Reading - Basingstoke with through trains from Oxford and to Salisbury, Southampton and Bournemouth

Yes, it is ... interesting to note that the timetable requires 2 trains to run it in the peaks, but is only hourly during the daytime - contrast to the modern efficiency of a 30 minute, single train, service all day.  Sensible passenger change, change due to changing requirements, or change for operational efficiency?


Yes - though I thing it's onward trains to Portsmouth rather than Salisbury.  I will have a look and confirm that once I get my feet back from under the dog and can take a look.

I see RichardB has nipped in with the two I was sure of  ;D

4 is a bit of a punt - Is it Bridgend and Maesteg to Treherbert?

Not got 6 yet, I am afraid.

Yes - actually showing the other direction - Treherbert to Bridgend.  Once again, noting that those sections that closed now have no trains (statement of the obvious) but those which remain open (or in this case have re-opened) now have a far better service.

Remember that the trains then ran to Ealing Broadway to reverse - no doubt because that's where we all wanted to go. While West Ealing is not exactly a long walk away, it wasn't exactly full of shops etc. There wasn't a bay to lurk in at either station, so all the spare waiting time was at the Greenford end. I don't remember whether at Ealing Broadway those trains waited in a platform or ran out to a siding for their shorter turn-round there.

6. I think this is Plymouth to St Budeaux (Ferry Road or Victoria Road) and Liskeard.

There is evidently a junction after the fourth station, and (rather like the Gloucester example on the other thread) it is likely that the fourth and fifth stations, while on different lines, serve the same locality (which is why they are shown in the same timetable).

The present-day equivalent GWR printed timetable includes stations to St Budeaux Ferry Road (but not beyond) and St Budeaux Victoria Road to Gunnislake, but I don't think that is the case here, because it is unlikely that Gunnislake would have had semi-fast services. So I conclude that the timetable shows trains to St Budeaux Victoria Road (which would have continued to Bere Ferrers and Tavistock or Gunnislake) and trains to St Budeaux Ferry Road and Liskeard.

I concur - The "a" in the middle of some of the 7th station timings denotes Saltash terminators, of which there were a few back in the day.

Yes - Plymouth to Saltash and Liskeard

A little bit of an exception to the "gone or improved" rule ... just look at the inbound series of trains to stations such as Dockyard in the early morning, and the afternoon flow back out ... and look at the very thin service if you're making a journey such as Devonport to Saltash we have today compared to this.   Menheniot hasn't fared too well, either.

While "the Beach" from Bristol has thrived, the local service from Plymouth appears to have withered.  Would / could there have been a case to have done better in Devon on this one?  Indeed - would there be potential to this day?

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ttq2_6a.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ttq2_6b.jpg)

"the beach" might be thriving in relative terms now, but it was a long old haul to get there. Closure from Stapleton Road through to Severn Beach had actually been announced in February 1967 just before grahame's timetable came into effect, and was only reversed in July 1967 after an enquiry.

It would be fair to say that it struggled through the next 3 decades, before the 1990's saw the bustitution of all daytime trains between Avonmouth and Severn Beach. Two further closure proposals were then fought off, in 2004 (Clifton Down-Severn Beach) and 2007 (Avonmouth-Severn Beach and Pilning), before all the years of FoSBR-led hard work and lobbying finally paid off in 2008 when a vastly-improved service to Avonmouth with all-day, all-rail extensions through to Severn Beach was introduced.

As far as Devonport, Dockyard, Keyham and St Budeaux Victoria Road go, it appears to be the case that once the line through to Tavistock and Okehampton had gone, and the decision to retain Gunnislake had been taken, they simply became regarded as "branch line halts" on that route, with a handful of peak mainline calls thrown in, a status made all the more obvious with the decimation of the number of services calling at the main line only St Budeaux Ferry Road. This has more or less remained a constant over the intervening years, rather than services having particularly "withered" over time.

I personally am a great believer in the potential of frequent Plymouth urban rail services, and to be fair to the admirably pro-rail Plymouth City Council, they have put forward a number of very good Plymouth Metro-style proposals over the years. It's just a great shame they havent received a fairer hearing from the powers that be.