Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: grahame on April 30, 2021, 08:01:24 am



Title: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: grahame on April 30, 2021, 08:01:24 am
From Heinrich-Böll-Stiftung (https://calendar.boell.de/en/night-trains)

Tuesday, 11. May 2021 - 17:00 – 18:30 (18:00 - 19:30 UK time)

Quote
European Mobility Atlas 2021 - Night time on European Rails
The rise of night trains in Europe

Night trains are on the rise again! While Europe was widely interconnected by night trains until the end of the 20th century, connections decreased dramatically in the past two decades.

2021 marks the European Year of Rail and the resurrection of important new night train connections combined with fresh railway market entrants. The climate crisis and the Covid-19 pandemic have made us question and rethink our travel habits. Night trains are a good example on how to favour a more sustainable mobility.

During this event, we will discuss the past, present and future of night trains, have an exchange on the political context of night trains within the European Year of Rail 2021 and get insights on the market situation from public and private operators.

I am posting this in the UK "Wider Picture" area because there is limited mention of UK in it / covering map.   A further map ((here)) (https://eu.boell.org/sites/default/files/2021-01/EUMobilityAtlas2021_FoldingMap_FINAL_26Jan.pdf?dimension1=euma2021)

Also to note - a very interesting study - EU Mobility Atlas 2021 (https://eu.boell.org/sites/default/files/2021-02/EUMobilityatlas2021_FINAL_WEB.pdf?dimension1=euma2021) - lots of really fascinating data and diagrams.  Bit heavy text for the first few pages but I have been reading and enjoying and learning for far longer than I have available today!


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: grahame on April 30, 2021, 01:03:16 pm
Also to note - a very interesting study - EU Mobility Atlas 2021 (https://eu.boell.org/sites/default/files/2021-02/EUMobilityatlas2021_FINAL_WEB.pdf?dimension1=euma2021) - lots of really fascinating data and diagrams.  Bit heavy text for the first few pages but I have been reading and enjoying and learning for far longer than I have available today!

Subjects covered by that document are worth listening ... and I have archived a copy for members at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/mirror/EUMobilityatlas2021_FINAL_WEB.pdf

12 BRIEF LESSONS
On mobility in Europe

HISTORY A STRUGGLE FOR DIRECTIONS.
It took until the late 1980s to make transport part of EU policy. Since then, steps have been taken to-wards a more ambitious transport policy. Reluctan-ce in EU Member States to enforce the rules keeps being the biggest obstacle.

EMPLOYMENT FEAR OF FALLING BY THE WAYSIDE.
Liberalisation and social harmonisation have barely gone hand in hand in the transport sector. Some EU rules exist, but without proper enforce-ment, the current employment situation is often unsatisfactory.

AVIATION FLYING GREEN—A NICE DREAM.
Suddenly, the skies were blue. The Covid-19 lock-down grounded the majority of flights, and ana-lysts say that it could take years for aviation to get back to normal.

THE AUTOMOTIVE SECTOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF A KEY INDUSTRY.
For more than 100 years, the automotive industry has relied on cars with internal combustion en-gines. Today, transformation is irrevocable. The Covid-19 pandemic makes it a truly Herculean task.

RAIL CHALLENGES OF A SINGLE EUROPEAN RAILWAY AREA.
European transport infrastructure reflects the complexity of Europe’s cross-border management tasks and its historic path dependency. Railway in-frastructure is a prominent example of this.

CROSS-BORDER MOBILITY CLOSING THE GAPS.
A well-connected cross-border railway system is the backbone of European transnational mobility. Yet many cross-border points still look like a patchwork reflecting a myriad of different national systems.

SHIPPING SETTING SAIL: CHALLENGES FOR SEA TRANSPORT.
Maritime transport is the most important, most efficient, but also dirtiest way of shipping goods. Not covered by the Paris Agreement, the indus-try is trying to set guidelines for a more environ-ment-friendly maritime transport.

TOURISM TRAVELLING SUSTAINABLY OR WITH THE CROWD?.
Tourism is a major economic sector in Europe. But its negative impacts on the environment and local communities raise concerns. Sustainable travel is growing, yet Covid-19 could change everything.

BICYCLE INDUSTRY GROWING AT SPEED.
Unlike many industries, the manufacture of bicy-cles keeps on growing. This is mainly driven by the sale of e-bikes. The ever-increasing demand for them seems to be helping the industry to recover rapidly from the impact of Covid-19.

CARGO BIKES SUSTAINABLE AND RESILIENT TRANSPORT.
Cargo bikes play a big role in avoiding motorised transport of goods. Many European cities operate successful cargo bike subsidy schemes. Commer-cial use, private ownership, sharing—all forms of cargo bike use are on the rise.

CYCLING COPENHAGEN THE MAKING OF A BIKE-FRIENDLY CITY.
Providing people with the options to safely walk, bike or use public transportation is paramount not only in creating a green and sustainable city, but also a liveable, people-friendly city.

ROAD SAFETY WANTED: STRATEGIES TO PROTECT THE WEAKEST.
Cyclists and pedestrians run a high risk of being killed in road traffic. At national and EU levels, a variety of initiatives aims to protect them better. However, more is needed to ensure effective pe-destrian and cyclist safety.

PUBLIC AND INTERMODAL TRANSPORT UNITE RURAL AND URBAN AREAS.
The ‘last mile’ is often a key problem in public transport. Smartly planned intermodal intersec-tions and digitalisation offer a range of possibilities to close that gap in the transportation chain—even with solutions for individual mobility.

COSTS THE COSTS OF TRANSPORT.
Inefficiencies in the transport system are caused by false prices. A high amount of costs is passed from the polluter to the general public. This ‘exter-nalisation’ prevents fair competition in transport and must be changed.

DRIVE TECHNOLOGY CHARGING AHEAD.
The path going forward is clear: for road vehicles, electricity and alternative fuels will soon replace petrol and diesel. The climate protection potential of this move is high, but some problems still need to be solved along the way.

DIESELGATE THE DIESELGATE SCANDAL HAS NOT BEEN SOLVED.
Detected five years ago, ‘Dieselgate’ remains partly unsolved, although national governments and the European Commission have offered a wide range of responses. Consumers criticise the scandal-handling by car manufacturers.

END-OF-LIFE VEHICLES FINAL DESTINATION.
Increasing mobility and trade as well as the shortening of a vehicle’s average life have led to a growing number of vehicles that have reached the end of their useful life in Europe.

THE IMPACT OF COVID-19 SHAKEN AND SHIFTED.
Europe and the world have been hit by trans-national crises before the Covid-19 pandemic. And almost all of them had a severe impact on mobility and transport.

THE FUTURE OF MOBILITY ON THE ROAD TO INTEGRATED SERVICES.
Digitalisation has already changed urban micro- mobility. The next step is the development of a single app for all mobility services.


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: stuving on May 12, 2021, 12:03:16 am
Transport & Environment - one of the bigger NGOs in the field - have a briefing out on "hitting the EV inflection point" (https://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/hitting-ev-inflection-point). What they are talking about is when in the future a pure electric car would cost no more than one with a thermal engine, and they propose a date not so far off now:
Quote
On average, battery electric vehicles reach the same price (before incentives) as equivalent petrol models between 2025 and 2027. Small vans reach price parity the earliest, in 2025, small cars are last in 2027, with medium and large sedans and SUVs hitting the parity point in 2026. In 2030, an average medium electric car is 18% cheaper than the equivalent petrol excluding taxes.

The briefing note itself (https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2021_05_Briefing_BNEF_phase_out.pdf) looks to me like its conclusion was forgone, but they did base it on an external report (https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2021_05_05_Electric_vehicle_price_parity_and_adoption_in_Europe_Final.pdf), commissioned of from BloombergNEF (which is a marketing name of Bloomberg Finance LP). That goes into a lot more detail about the technology and production constraints involved, and the assumptions they have made.


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: grahame on July 20, 2021, 10:29:35 am
From Springwise (https://www.springwise.com/innovation/travel-tourism/midnight-trains-hotel)

Midnight train to [Edinburgh / Berlin / Porto]

Quote
'HOTEL ON WHEELS' AIMS TO REPLACE BUDGET FLIGHTS WITH RAIL TRAVEL

Midnight Trains is promising comfort, ease of access and trips that are only slightly longer than a flight on many European routes


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 20, 2021, 11:13:09 am
From Springwise (https://www.springwise.com/innovation/travel-tourism/midnight-trains-hotel)

Midnight train to [Edinburgh / Berlin / Porto]

Quote
'HOTEL ON WHEELS' AIMS TO REPLACE BUDGET FLIGHTS WITH RAIL TRAVEL

Midnight Trains is promising comfort, ease of access and trips that are only slightly longer than a flight on many European routes

Flight time Edinburgh - Berlin is 2hr 5mins.....how long will the "slightly longer" rail journey take?


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: johnneyw on July 20, 2021, 11:24:09 am
I think the claim may be based on including dwell times at the airport at each end of the flight plus some estimate on travel time to and from the airports from the city centre.


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: ellendune on July 20, 2021, 12:40:59 pm
I have done the journey from Reading to Bonn in by train when a colleague flew.  My train passed through Reading at the time he was leaving his office there to go to Heathrow. He reached the hotel 15 mins before me.   


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 20, 2021, 03:03:58 pm
I think the claim may be based on including dwell times at the airport at each end of the flight plus some estimate on travel time to and from the airports from the city centre.

It’ll be a good deal longer on that particular route, but the article quoted doesn’t make any such claim.  It says it’ll be only slightly longer on many routes, so not all. 

Perhaps TG missed that?


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: stuving on July 20, 2021, 03:53:45 pm
From Springwise (https://www.springwise.com/innovation/travel-tourism/midnight-trains-hotel)

Midnight train to [Edinburgh / Berlin / Porto]

Quote
'HOTEL ON WHEELS' AIMS TO REPLACE BUDGET FLIGHTS WITH RAIL TRAVEL

Midnight Trains is promising comfort, ease of access and trips that are only slightly longer than a flight on many European routes

Flight time Edinburgh - Berlin is 2hr 5mins.....how long will the "slightly longer" rail journey take?

The comparison is idiotic - presumably it comes from the "journalist" rather than the company. I mean, there aren't any overnight flights in Europe short enough to similar to the minimum for a sleeper train to be worthwhile, are there? And shouldn't you be comparing the train with a flight plus hotel anyway?


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 20, 2021, 04:54:07 pm
Precisely, Stuving.

Any service between two or more large cities that leaves mid/late evening and gets there mid/late morning (say aim for a maximum journey time of twelve hours) might well work in the future for a premium leisure market and if air travel becomes increasingly unpopular. 

That’s if both cost of operation and cost to the travellers pocket can be kept low enough, which is the big stumbling block for me.


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 20, 2021, 05:48:01 pm
I think the claim may be based on including dwell times at the airport at each end of the flight plus some estimate on travel time to and from the airports from the city centre.

It’ll be a good deal longer on that particular route, but the article quoted doesn’t make any such claim.  It says it’ll be only slightly longer on many routes, so not all. 

Perhaps TG missed that?

Edinburgh is the only British city quoted, perhaps II missed that?  ;)

You're getting there with your second post though, probably far better to market it in its own right as a luxury leisure option than trying to go head to head on speed of travel - different markets, different customers.

It would be interesting to know how much it would cost - there are long distance sleepers across Europe aren't there? Do any cater in this way with a "luxury" product?

(And perhaps more importantly, do they serve steak and Port?)


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 20, 2021, 07:41:21 pm
Edinburgh is the only British city quoted, perhaps II missed that?  ;)

I don’t really consider Britain as a likely market at all to be honest.  They do mention Edinburgh but I expect the Channel Tunnel’s safety rules and charges to use the HS1 network will scupper any such plans at an early stage - unless they get Go-Op on board!

It’s a French company and my comments were largely based on the mainland Europe network of destinations they list on their website: https://www.midnight-trains.com/en/story


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 20, 2021, 09:22:15 pm
Edinburgh is the only British city quoted, perhaps II missed that?  ;)

I don’t really consider Britain as a likely market at all to be honest.  They do mention Edinburgh but I expect the Channel Tunnel’s safety rules and charges to use the HS1 network will scupper any such plans at an early stage - unless they get Go-Op on board!

It’s a French company and my comments were largely based on the mainland Europe network of destinations they list on their website: https://www.midnight-trains.com/en/story

Surely given the name of the Company they should be running a service to Tblisi? (Woo Woo!)  :)


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: Lee on July 20, 2021, 10:12:33 pm
Edinburgh is the only British city quoted, perhaps II missed that?  ;)

I don’t really consider Britain as a likely market at all to be honest.  They do mention Edinburgh but I expect the Channel Tunnel’s safety rules and charges to use the HS1 network will scupper any such plans at an early stage - unless they get Go-Op on board!

It’s a French company and my comments were largely based on the mainland Europe network of destinations they list on their website: https://www.midnight-trains.com/en/story

Surely given the name of the Company they should be running a service to Tblisi? (Woo Woo!)  :)

It certainly looks like they are going back to find a simpler place in time.


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: grahame on September 17, 2021, 07:41:41 am
From the Scottish Greens (https://www.facebook.com/ScottishGreens/posts/10159545534551170)

Quote
The German Greens, who may soon be in government, have proposed a night-train network across Europe. Go to sleep in Glasgow, wake up in Berlin, Barcelona, Rome or Athens.

We can have fast, effective, comfortable, low-carbon transport. It just requires the will to make it happen. The future can be green.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/scotnight.jpg)

Shown on the map ...
Dublin / Holyhead / Birmingham to Paris
Glasgow / Edinburgh / Birmingam to Frankfurt
London to Warsaw
London to Rome
London to Vienna
London to Amsterdam / Barcelona / Cologne

Missing / Gaps...
Cardiff / Plymouth / Bristol to Zurich


Title: Re: The rise of night trains in Europe - Online - 11 May 2021, 18:00
Post by: Bmblbzzz on September 17, 2021, 09:03:11 am
On a completely different note, I see the German name used for the largest city in western Ukraine is now Lwiw not Lwow, but that country's capital is still Kiew not Kyiw. Semi-adaptation to changing politico-linguistics! (As long as they're not calling it Lemberg I'm sure everyone's happy!)



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net