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Has anyone seen any further information on this:

https://news.railbusinessdaily.com/siemens-mobility-to-deliver-low-cost-digital-solution-for-devon-and-cornwall-re-signalling-programme/?fbclid=IwAR1Ngm8QLBWeakyQ-XAV6NvmwPocHsx5CGQ54wIUYi7qX8te3Ox7yjA6MXQ

It says completion in late 2023!!

I did not see any mention of it in the current Modern Railways article on GWR.

Someone's geography has got confused!

Would this mean that all Semaphore signals would be no more?

So far the Siemens Mobility press release seems unclear in how much of the current
signalling in Cornwall will instead be controlled from the Exeter Signalling Centre and which Cornish SBs will be closed and just what the reported elsewhere, area of 'West Devon' that will be controlled from the existing early 1960's Plymouth PSB, which ?was/is
expected to close.
The last Semaphore signals could well, in 2024, be at Bodmin General.

I'm very confused (it's my age).
Plymouth will/might control some parts of West Cornwall; the rest going over to Exeter.
Why not do the lot from Plymouth; over even do it all from Exeter and shut Plymouth.  ???

I remember back in 2014 I was lucky enough to look round the Thames Valley Signalling Centre at Didcot.  At that stage the plan was still to control everything from Paddington to Penzance from there.

In this photo the Paddington workstation is the last video display on the right.  Penzance would, I believe, have been at the end of the semi-circular wood surround in the foreground. 

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/didpad.jpg)

I hope it’s OK to quote from a post on RMweb earlier this week:

“ As one of the designers on the scheme, I can answer the questions:
 
1) Semaphore Signalling at Liskeard, St. Blazey, Goonbarrow and St. Erth is safe, and the mechanical frame at Penzance is also safe. I think the signal boxes that are being closed will remain standing, just in a different use.
 
2) The new workstation at Exeter will cover Cornwall, and eventually also control Plymouth when that’s done (although I don’t when that will be). There’s simply more space for a workstation at Exeter and it’s where the Cornish signallers are based at anyway (at least I think that was the case when we did the original scheme).
 
Simon”

I have asked him to clarify that the mechanical signals will be motor driven remotely.

Thank you Pb_devon.
Clears my mind somewhat.
Wonder why Penzance is 'safe' as it only controls that area.
If Plymouth can be remoted from Exeter, then Penzance would be no problem to remote.

Don't let Mebyon Kernow hear that!

And the answer Simon has provided is this:

“ Yes and no, the Mechanical Semaphores at Lostwithiel, Par and Truro are all being replaced with LED Colour Lights, they will be controlled by a VDU Workstation at Exeter rather than the panel. However, the Mechanical Semaphore Signals at Liskeard, St. Blazey, Goonbarrow and St. Erth will remain and worked by their respective boxes.”
 
So a partial resignalling then!

At first sight this looks a bit of a patchwork.  It would be more logical if Liskeard only covered the branch to Looe.  Where is the interface with Plymouth panel?

It saves the cost of building a museum. One day, the UK signalling system will be controlled by one person from a smartphone app.

Plymouth controls west up to the Liskeard distant.

I still find it hard to understand the logic of a mixture of old mechanical signalling with that of a modern network all controlled from one ROC. It seems a "pig's ear" of a scheme to me and probably fraught with difficulties.

Cost.  Short term cost.  :-\

You need a £100 million computer system, lots of LED lights, a GSM radio system with capability for transmission of telemetry data at high speed, a whistle, a flag and some large bangy things to stick on the rails when it's foggy, so the driver of the £50 million train knows that there's a broken down steam engine ahead.

And so that the driver of a steam engine knows that there is a broken down £50  million new train ahead !

This has developed into a thread with two halves hasn’t it? Until sometime in January it was about a future resignalling project due to complete in 2023.  Has work actually started on that?

Then from post 17 onwards it was suddenly all about day to day faults, theft or vandalism.

Are the two subjects actually related at all?  ???

Paul

Guilty as charged.
I didn't spot the REsignalling at the time of my first post.

So Mods, please split this into two if possible, perhaps with a title of Cornwall signalling problems? as the thefts have been in Cornwall.

Took a while to respond - but topics now split!

I note that the list of engineering works due later this year on GWR's website includes:
- 5th, 6th & 13th November: St. Austell to Penzance
- 19th & 20th November: Lostwithiel to St. Austell
- 05th - 08th December: Truro to Penzance, incl. St. Erth - St. Ives
- 27th - 30th January: Par to Newquay

I presume, without knowing for sure, that the works of November and December will be related to the resignalling in terms of installation of the replacement signals - :( - but I am not sure when the new setup is due to be commissioned. As for Par to Newquay this could also be for work on the same project to make a few alterations.

Dave

I saw a notice at Truro station a few days ago saying something about resignalling taking place between September 2022 and ? January 2023 to improve the service.

https://www.railengineer.co.uk/a-modular-approach-to-signalling-in-cornwall/
(Rather off topic, but interesting to read article https://www.lococarriage.org.uk/plykerno.html)

Hence the closure dates in the post above yours. I have been told on another forum that the commissioning of the new system will not take place until November 2023 though which should give me time for a final photo trip at some point. The boxes at Lostwithiel, Par and Truro will be abolished but St. Blazey will remain and Goonbarrow Junction will have its mechanical workings replaced with a new panel. I have also heard that Newquay station will go back to having two platforms as well.

Dave

Interesting - that would take a huge amount of work in addition to the signalling, wouldn't it?

They want an hourly service to Newquay as part of a cross Cornwall metro to Falmouth.

There's definitely a lot planned according to the Rail Engineer article (linked posted by GMB above or below whichever way you have your posts aligned!)
I hope the new passing loop planned on the Goss Moor on the Newquay branch is long enough for an IET!!

I don't know. This photo from the Wikipedia site - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newquay_railway_station#/media/File:GWR_150234_at_Newquay.jpg - shows the redundant platform on the right, minus track, and I am quite sure that is still there. The requirement would be for new signals as well as track. There are a few closures coming up on the line (19th, 20th & 27th November 2022 + 27th - 30th January 2023) so some work might be done then but who knows. They may even leave it until the middle of next year: I have heard on another forum that the commissioning work for this resignalling scheme will start 1st November 2023 and not finish until the end of the month so I hope to take my camera down there before then.

Dave

Evening all,

Thought I would bump this topic with a bit of an update. Anyone who uses the trains in Cornwall regularly will probably be aware that the semaphore system remains in place although work has been taking place of late with signs of new cables and signals going in. Earlier this year I heard that the changeover to the new system had been delayed again and was expected for sometime around March 2024.

GWR's website now lists that engineering works in relation to the scheme are now scheduled for the following dates with bus replacement services as given.

- Sunday 10th September:
Plymouth to Penzance / Par to Newquay / Truro to Falmouth Docks
Trains to run on Gunnislake, St. Ives and Looe lines and also Penzance to St. Erth.

This one is listed as being for "rail improvement work" so maybe some general maintenance also but I suspect some work on the signalling will also be done.

- Tuesday 31st October to Sunday 05th November:
St. Austell and St. Erth; also between Truro and Falmouth Docks.

- Monday 06th November to Sunday 12th November:
06/11 to 10/11: Liskeard to St. Erth; also Newquay and Falmouth Docks lines.
11/11 to 12/11: Plymouth to St. Erth; also Looe, Newquay and Falmouth Docks lines

Those are given as being for the signalling work. The scheme will see the abolition of the signalboxes and semaphores at Lostwithiel, Par and Truro (a shame) but I had heard that the Liskeard signalbox and semaphores were safe. I wonder if the works on the Looe line relate to plans for the Lodge Farm and Terras crossings that would see them converted from open crossings to ABCL.

Dave

Thank you Dave for that update.
Don't want to 'like' your post, as that implies I like the removal of semaphore signals (which I don't!).
Shame they are going, along with the characters who staffed the soon to be closed boxes.

That's progress I believe.
We look forward to 'signalling problems' similar to those in the Thames Valley  ::)

I am not keen on the removal of the semaphores either: even though mechanical signalling can act up a bit in hot weather (as I found out when a trainee signalman for a heritage railway) at least you don't get people pinching the cables! As for the boxes the ones at St. Blazey and Goonbarrow Junction will remain - someone told me on a Facebook group that Goonbarrow Jcn to Newquay will be worked by a panel but the area around Goonbarrow Junction and the line to St. Blazey will remain mechanical. I don't know the truth of that.

I have photos, externally, of the boxes at Par, Truro and Lostwithiel and will be down in Cornwall in a couple of weeks when I hope - without trespassing - to get a photo or two at Goonbarrow Junction. St. Blazey is impossible to snap though.


TVSC won't have a hand in things here. I have heard it suggested, more than once, that Thames Valley SCC will not be working anything south of the M5 overbridge at Bridgwater (near J24). Control for Lostwithiel to Truro will pass to a computerised workstation and will be located at Exeter.

Meanwhile I have also seen it mentioned on another forum that the eastern section of Plymouth PSB - Totnes (excl.) to Hemerdon - is due to be resignalled in 2024 and that will be controlled from a new workstation to be housed at Plymouth PSB rather than from the Plymouth panel: among the alterations in connection with the Totnes - Hemerdon work will be the abolition of the loop on the Up Main at Hemerdon. The closest I get to signalling nowadays is playing a certain computer game.

Dave

Am I reading this correctly!
Cornwall (well, parts) will be worked from Exeter, whilst Plymouth to Totnes will be worked from Plymouth.
Surely more effective for Cornwall to be worked from Plymouth, unless, of course, the future plan is for Exeter to control all West.

I think it was last Christmas, (or maybe the year before), that saw the sudden renaming of the existing IECC to Tyneside ROC, previously expected to be re-controlled to York.  Turned out the plan to have one location covering the entire stretch from Kings Cross to the border was now significantly changed.   I predict another mini-ROC at either Exeter or Plymouth, but probably not both?

Paul

I have heard it said that Exeter may become an ROC and eventually end up controlling everything southwest of the Bristol PSB boundary at Bridgwater: apparently TVSC isn't big enough and Plymouth wouldn't be big enough to house an ROC of the size needed to control all west either.

Dave

Sort of a shame.
Would have preferred a Plymouth mini ROC, but at least Exeter is still in Devon

Quite. If, however, you consider that each workstation on an ROC can require between 5 and 10 screens - see https://photos.signalling.org/picture?/25367/category/3217-2013_november - then you would need to expand the Plymouth PSB (or build a new one) but there isn't much space in the Plymouth station area for that I don't think. Exeter is a bigger building.

TBH I think having Kings Cross (and, as of very recently, Peterborough) controlled from York is silly: not only is putting all your eggs in one basket a very bad idea but I always say that there is also no substitute for local knowledge when it comes to things such as signalling. Kings Cross and Peterborough might have been better housed at Doncaster if that had been an ROC (or converted to one).

Dave

I remember a few years back being shown round TVSC and the screens were arranged in a giant horseshoe.  Paddington was at one end with Penzance planned for the other.  A signaller remarked he would be able to send a train out from London and before the end of his shift see it arrive in West Cornwall.

Obviously plans change. 

Someone's going suggest it could all be done from Bengaluru or Jaipur

As was National Rail enquiries a while ago - is it still sent overseas?

But consider the security implications of offshoring a critical safety function. Its not going to happen.

Cancellations to services at St Erth
Due to urgent repairs to the railway at St Erth the line is closed.
Train services running through this station may be cancelled or delayed by up to 60 minutes. Disruption is expected until 14:15 10/09.
Customer Advice
The Main Line in Cornwall is closed today for routine engineering works. Replacement road transport is operating, however it has not been possible to cover all of the advertised service, and coaches have been leaving Penzance full, meaning St. Erth has received very little service. We are urgently trying to source additional resources, however this is taking time. Limited road transport has been confirmed, however this is unlikely to arrive at St. Erth until 13:30 at the earliest.
Further Information
An update will follow within the next 2 hours.
...........
Last Updated:10/09/2023 12:44

GWR and NR are publishing information about the works. This comes from Network Rail...
https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/signal-upgrade-set-to-modernise-cornwalls-railway

...but doesn't mention that the line between Looe and Liskeard will be closed on Monday 20th November for level crossing upgrades (the equipment is, I presume, being installed over the weekend of 11th / 12th November during the blockade for the resignalling works): that is referred to here from GWR.
https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering/cornwall

Other upgrades to level crossings are, I believe, planned for the Plymouth to Gunnislake route but there seems to be no date for these yet.

I noticed today that there has been recent replacement of the signals at the north ends of Plymouth station platforms 4 to 8 and this heralds the start of the upgrades to signalling between Totnes and Plymouth to be done in several overnight closures of which the first will be 25th / 26th September with the work carrying on until early 2024: GWR's engineering works list confirms this and there will then be alterations to services the following morning. See NR news item above.

Dave