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All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: grahame on July 02, 2021, 03:11:56 pm



Title: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: grahame on July 02, 2021, 03:11:56 pm
From Material Handling World (https://mhwmagazine.co.uk/one-million-hgvs-to-be-taken-off-the-roads-as-first-train-departs-hs2s-willesden-logistics-hub.html)

Quote
One million HGVs to be taken off the roads as first train departs HS2’s Willesden Logistics Hub

This week, on Tuesday 29th June, the first train carrying spoil removed from HS2 construction works in London left the HS2 Logistics hub in Willesden. Carrying 1,470 tonnes of spoil, the train departed at 03:51 and will travel to Barrington in Cambridgeshire, where the spoil will be reused in a disused quarry to bring it back into use as a new housing development.

The logistics hub has been brought into use by HS2’s main works contractor, Skanska Costain STRABAG joint venture (SCS JV) who are building the HS2 tunnels through London. The hub will be used by other London contractors, Balfour Beatty VINCI SYSTRA JV (BBVS JV) and Mace Dragados JV (MD JV) who are constructing HS2’s Old Oak Common and Euston stations respectively. The site will be the ‘beating heart’ of HS2’s construction activity in the South.

Over the lifecycle of the project up to seven freight trains per day will depart the Logistics hub at Willesden, and will remove one million lorries from the roads in the London area alone. One train per day will arrive at the hub bringing in construction materials, including concrete segments that will be used to construct HS2’s London tunnels.

I know rail is good and efficient, but somehow I don't think it will take a million lorries off the road.  A million journeys, perhaps?   Or a million miles or kilometres of journey?


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: broadgage on July 02, 2021, 03:31:56 pm
I doubt that the average reporter or politician knows the difference between "a million lorries" and "a million trips" or a "million miles"

Cynically presuming that they probably mean the lesser option of a million miles, this is still good news. If we are serious about the climate emergency then we need to reduce fossil fuel used. Replacing HGVs with trains is one way to achieve this.
Other options include coastal shipping, inland waterways, and reducing the need for long distance freight by more local production.


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: TonyK on July 02, 2021, 05:03:22 pm
A six-wheeler tipper lorry typically carries about 15 tonnes of muck. The one train therefore replaces 100 lorry-loads. Exhaust aside, a hundred lorries daily makes a fair bit of noise and gets in the way of the rest of the traffic. Multiply that by seven at the peak of activity, and you get a pretty big number. Whether it's a million journeys or not doesn't much matter - doing it by rail is definitely a very good thing. Especially given that the UK has a serious shortage of lorry drivers.


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 02, 2021, 05:47:01 pm
A six-wheeler tipper lorry typically carries about 15 tonnes of muck. The one train there replaces 100 lorry-loads. Exhaust aside, a hundred lorries daily makes a fair bit of noise and gets in the way of the rest of the traffic. Multiply that by seven at the peak of activity, and you get a pretty big number. Whether it's a million journeys or not doesn't much matter - doing it by rail is definitely a very good thing. Especially given that the UK has a serious shortage of lorry drivers.

Works well in this scenario for a point to point journey and may offset some of the environmental damage being done by HS2, however unless every construction site in the UK is going to be within a short distance of a suitably equipped rail station, long term most of those lorries are still going to be needed.


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: grahame on July 03, 2021, 08:02:55 am
Our local BBC news reports a shortage of 60,000 lorry drivers - with a 30,000 backlog of HGV license tests, and 15,000 drivers who are nationals of other European countries returning to the home countries or perhaps elsewhere in Europe to drive.
 
Is the rail industry doing anything systemic to encourage rail freight - requiring far fewer drivers per ton of goods - to fill the gap?

Edit to add link to story - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-57656327
also one particular company's issues: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57690505


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: TonyK on July 03, 2021, 10:07:44 am

Works well in this scenario for a point to point journey and may offset some of the environmental damage being done by HS2, however unless every construction site in the UK is going to be within a short distance of a suitably equipped rail station, long term most of those lorries are still going to be needed.

It does indeed. There are few such major construction jobs, but even a small project (by comparison) like the Okehampton rebuild benefits greatly from rail doing a lot of the donkey work. The environmental damage done by relaying the track ready for reopening will have been significantly mitigated.


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: Lee on July 03, 2021, 10:25:34 am
As laudable as this all is in principle, you wont find me getting on board with this unless I am absolutely convinced there is a proper plan in place to significantly increase overall capacity/pathing. What we dont want is to give Network Rail/Great British Railways carte blanche to just toss aside local/regional passenger rail services, as they proposed to do on the TransWilts in the 2000s, for example.

Unless of course we are going to take the prescription age "I suppose it is the way of things" view on that as well, and not bother fighting for local/regional passenger rail services post-Covid.


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on July 03, 2021, 12:17:33 pm
From Material Handling World (https://mhwmagazine.co.uk/one-million-hgvs-to-be-taken-off-the-roads-as-first-train-departs-hs2s-willesden-logistics-hub.html)

Quote
One million HGVs to be taken off the roads as first train departs HS2’s Willesden Logistics Hub

This week, on Tuesday 29th June, the first train carrying spoil removed from HS2 construction works in London left the HS2 Logistics hub in Willesden. Carrying 1,470 tonnes of spoil, the train departed at 03:51 and will travel to Barrington in Cambridgeshire, where the spoil will be reused in a disused quarry to bring it back into use as a new housing development.

The logistics hub has been brought into use by HS2’s main works contractor, Skanska Costain STRABAG joint venture (SCS JV) who are building the HS2 tunnels through London. The hub will be used by other London contractors, Balfour Beatty VINCI SYSTRA JV (BBVS JV) and Mace Dragados JV (MD JV) who are constructing HS2’s Old Oak Common and Euston stations respectively. The site will be the ‘beating heart’ of HS2’s construction activity in the South.

Over the lifecycle of the project up to seven freight trains per day will depart the Logistics hub at Willesden, and will remove one million lorries from the roads in the London area alone. One train per day will arrive at the hub bringing in construction materials, including concrete segments that will be used to construct HS2’s London tunnels.

I know rail is good and efficient, but somehow I don't think it will take a million lorries off the road.  A million journeys, perhaps?   Or a million miles or kilometres of journey?
The way I parse the article, it implies that the million lorries (journeys? trips? loads?) are already on the roads.

I don't think it means that the lorries are being scrapped...  :(


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: TonyK on July 03, 2021, 02:17:30 pm

The way I parse the article, it implies that the million lorries (journeys? trips? loads?) are already on the roads.

I don't think it means that the lorries are being scrapped...  :(

Over on the pedants' thread, I would imagine it could mean one million lorries stood on driveways, but not discounting a further million lorries being brought in to take their place. It is ambiguous, and possibly lacking in meaning. If the last half mile of the journey involves a lorry, then the number of lorry journeys will be the same, just the distance travelled by them will be much shorter.

I don't really know what it means in absolute terms, but it does mean the roads will be quieter than they otherwise would be. It shouldn't really be news - every big civil engineering project should have a plan for delivery of goods and removal of spoil that doesn't involve the roads.


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 03, 2021, 02:31:58 pm

The way I parse the article, it implies that the million lorries (journeys? trips? loads?) are already on the roads.

I don't think it means that the lorries are being scrapped...  :(

Over on the pedants' thread, I would imagine it could mean one million lorries stood on driveways, but not discounting a further million lorries being brought in to take their place. It is ambiguous, and possibly lacking in meaning. If the last half mile of the journey involves a lorry, then the number of lorry journeys will be the same, just the distance travelled by them will be much shorter.

I don't really know what it means in absolute terms, but it does mean the roads will be quieter than they otherwise would be. It shouldn't really be news - every big civil engineering project should have a plan for delivery of goods and removal of spoil that doesn't involve the roads.

The spoil issue is easily solved....just dig another hole & bury it   ;)


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: Trowres on July 03, 2021, 05:32:32 pm
Some (most?) railways in the good ol' days were designed to minimise the amount of waste, weren't they? - what came out of cuttings was used for embankments.

Of course, it really shouldn't be newsworthy when a major flow of materials travels by rail; especially when at least one end of the journey is going to be rail-network-connected anyway.



Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: grahame on July 03, 2021, 06:22:45 pm
Some (most?) railways in the good ol' days were designed to minimise the amount of waste, weren't they? - what came out of cuttings was used for embankments.

I suspect that lines are lower these days - more tunnels, and thumping great matching embankments would give rise to local complaints about blocked views, damaged landscapes and noise.   

Not rail but a different case in Melksham as I write - digging out a stream to help water flow and the council is happy.  Dumping the spoil to form a bund on the side of the recreation field that the stream runs through raises all sorts of issues like "will it block the view" (especially of the children's play area where they want them to be generally seen as a safeguarding thing) and "what wild nasties will it bring into the rec area" and "its going to cost someone more to maintain than the flat field does".


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: broadgage on July 04, 2021, 06:53:38 pm
Some (most?) railways in the good ol' days were designed to minimise the amount of waste, weren't they? - what came out of cuttings was used for embankments.

I suspect that lines are lower these days - more tunnels, and thumping great matching embankments would give rise to local complaints about blocked views, damaged landscapes and noise.   

Not rail but a different case in Melksham as I write - digging out a stream to help water flow and the council is happy.  Dumping the spoil to form a bund on the side of the recreation field that the stream runs through raises all sorts of issues like "will it block the view" (especially of the children's play area where they want them to be generally seen as a safeguarding thing) and "what wild nasties will it bring into the rec area" and "its going to cost someone more to maintain than the flat field does".

The bund should have rebranded as an "anti-pervert barrier, for child protection" or perhaps as "newt habitat" or even as part of a "wider green strategy"


Title: Re: Taking one million lorries off the road ?!
Post by: TonyK on July 05, 2021, 06:17:38 pm

The bund should have rebranded as an "anti-pervert barrier, for child protection" or perhaps as "newt habitat" or even as part of a "wider green strategy"

Brilliant thinking! Rebrand it as the "sustainable 5G-resistant e-bund", and everyone will want one. That or the "5G Permeable eco-bund" at no extra cost.



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