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All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: eXPassenger on July 19, 2021, 18:02:26



Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: eXPassenger on July 19, 2021, 18:02:26
Split off from http://www.passenger.chat/25230 - grahame

As an aside, why is the explanation for "XC" styled as "(Cross Country franchise trains (now run by Arriva))"?

Why not simply "(CrossCountry Trains)" seeing as that's their name?

"Cross Country franchise trains" is pretty poor grammar.

Also "now run by Arriva" implies this is a new development. Arriva have run the franchise since 2007. So why the "now"?!

It bugs me every time I see it.

It is as annoying as the road sign that states 'New Roal Layout' that has been up for so long the paint is peeling off.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: grahame on July 19, 2021, 22:16:08
As an aside, why is the explanation for "XC" styled as "(Cross Country franchise trains (now run by Arriva))"?

As others have suggested, "New Road" syndrome.   Here in Melksham, the New Inn has closed down recently and is boarded up ...

I will jump in and put a lick of paint on that expansion.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: Lee on July 19, 2021, 22:41:26
As an aside, why is the explanation for "XC" styled as "(Cross Country franchise trains (now run by Arriva))"?

As others have suggested, "New Road" syndrome.   Here in Melksham, the New Inn has closed down recently and is boarded up ...

I will jump in and put a lick of paint on that expansion.

Please dont tell me that's the New Inn in Berryfield. I will have to rewrite some of our bus timetable proposals...


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: stuving on July 19, 2021, 22:48:55
As an aside, why is the explanation for "XC" styled as "(Cross Country franchise trains (now run by Arriva))"?

As others have suggested, "New Road" syndrome.   Here in Melksham, the New Inn has closed down recently and is boarded up ...

I will jump in and put a lick of paint on that expansion.

Please dont tell me that's the New Inn in Berryfield. I will have to rewrite some of our bus timetable proposals...


Why? Most bus operators have a few stops named after pubs that closed - or changed their names - or were demolished - more than twenty years ago.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: Lee on July 19, 2021, 22:52:13
As an aside, why is the explanation for "XC" styled as "(Cross Country franchise trains (now run by Arriva))"?

As others have suggested, "New Road" syndrome.   Here in Melksham, the New Inn has closed down recently and is boarded up ...

I will jump in and put a lick of paint on that expansion.

Please dont tell me that's the New Inn in Berryfield. I will have to rewrite some of our bus timetable proposals...


Why? Most bus operators have a few stops named after pubs that closed - or changed their names - or were demolished - more than twenty years ago.

I know - To be honest that was more aimed in jest at grahame in reference to the many Berryfield related bus service shenanigans we've had  ;D


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: grahame on July 19, 2021, 23:20:15
As an aside, why is the explanation for "XC" styled as "(Cross Country franchise trains (now run by Arriva))"?

As others have suggested, "New Road" syndrome.   Here in Melksham, the New Inn has closed down recently and is boarded up ...

I will jump in and put a lick of paint on that expansion.

Please dont tell me that's the New Inn in Berryfield. I will have to rewrite some of our bus timetable proposals...


Why? Most bus operators have a few stops named after pubs that closed - or changed their names - or were demolished - more than twenty years ago.

I know - To be honest that was more aimed in jest at grahame in reference to the many Berryfield related bus service shenanigans we've had  ;D

Yeah, I got it.   I think the Frome folks have a few such stops in their town. And certain stops I wonder - "Stone Wharf" at Bathford.

Options at Berryfield:
1. Rename the Stop.
2. Get someone to buy the place and re-open it
3. Live with it as a piece of history.

I fancy option 2 ... the Wilts and Berks canal will be opening past here in a handful of years at it will make a lovely waterside pub. Housing around too will pay for the canal and bring all year local customer.  No other waterside pub for quite a distance ... "New Cut Inn"


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: froome on July 20, 2021, 03:25:02
As an aside, why is the explanation for "XC" styled as "(Cross Country franchise trains (now run by Arriva))"?

As others have suggested, "New Road" syndrome.   Here in Melksham, the New Inn has closed down recently and is boarded up ...

I will jump in and put a lick of paint on that expansion.

Please dont tell me that's the New Inn in Berryfield. I will have to rewrite some of our bus timetable proposals...


Why? Most bus operators have a few stops named after pubs that closed - or changed their names - or were demolished - more than twenty years ago.

For some years after we moved to Bath, our local bus service had its destination on the front of the bus as Kingsway Post Office. Not only did this post office not exist, and hadn't done so for some years before we moved there, but the building it had been in was just a private house that nobody would have guessed had ever been a post office just from looking at it.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: rogerpatenall on July 20, 2021, 08:22:26
Pretty much totally unrelated to the thread - but anyway, a little tale. When i started work for a big company based in London in the early 70s, anything that could not be found was always said to be 'probably in storage above the ABC shop in Mornington Crescent'. One day a colleague and I set off to investigate the archives. The address of the one-time shop in Mornington Crescent was a WW2 bomb site still being used as a NCP carpark. Provided an answer to no end of questions over the next 35 years that I worked there.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: didcotdean on July 20, 2021, 16:06:51
The nearest bus stop to where I am presently visiting in Leicester is still referred to by many locals as 'the tram terminus'. A tram last ran there in 1947.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: Reading General on July 20, 2021, 18:57:07
Both Turnham’s Farm and the no longer used Sheraton Park bus destinations in Reading, were names simply used by the bus company and not what the places were ever referred to by those that lived there. Turnham’s farm is the name of a recreation ground which the 33 route that started in the late 70’s never reached until some point in the last decade.

To Reading Transport staff, THE terminus is the former trolley terminus at Northumberland avenue, a road generally referred to as ‘the avenue’.

The 17 route is still called the mainline, a reference to its tram and trolley days.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: eightonedee on July 20, 2021, 19:57:10
Quote
Both Turnham’s Farm and the no longer used Sheraton Park bus destinations in Reading, were names simply used by the bus company and not what the places were ever referred to by those that lived there. Turnham’s farm is the name of a recreation ground which the 33 route that started in the late 70’s never reached until some point in the last decade.

Young man - some of us are old enough to rememeber Turnham's Farm at the junction of City Road and Little Heath Road! I think it was developed in the early 1970s. I cannot remember if buses started before the farm was developed (I'll take RG's word for it!) and the housing estate that was built was I think known as the Turnham Farm estate in its early days.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: bradbrka on July 20, 2021, 22:53:42
Quote
Both Turnham’s Farm and the no longer used Sheraton Park bus destinations in Reading, were names simply used by the bus company and not what the places were ever referred to by those that lived there. Turnham’s farm is the name of a recreation ground which the 33 route that started in the late 70’s never reached until some point in the last decade.

Young man - some of us are old enough to rememeber Turnham's Farm at the junction of City Road and Little Heath Road! I think it was developed in the early 1970s. I cannot remember if buses started before the farm was developed (I'll take RG's word for it!) and the housing estate that was built was I think known as the Turnham Farm estate in its early days.

The Turnhams's farm buildings were at the junction of City Road and Little Heath Road. Its lands extended behind the cottages along both sides of City Road from the Fox and Hounds to the west side of Little Heath Road were the recreation ground can now be found. The farm was developed over a number of years and the bus service started part way through. I lived in City road as a child and watched the farm building being demolished.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: stuving on July 20, 2021, 23:17:26
Quote
Both Turnham’s Farm and the no longer used Sheraton Park bus destinations in Reading, were names simply used by the bus company and not what the places were ever referred to by those that lived there. Turnham’s farm is the name of a recreation ground which the 33 route that started in the late 70’s never reached until some point in the last decade.

Young man - some of us are old enough to rememeber Turnham's Farm at the junction of City Road and Little Heath Road! I think it was developed in the early 1970s. I cannot remember if buses started before the farm was developed (I'll take RG's word for it!) and the housing estate that was built was I think known as the Turnham Farm estate in its early days.

The Turnhams's farm buildings were at the junction of City Road and Little Heath Road. Its lands extended behind the cottages along both sides of City Road from the Fox and Hounds to the west side of Little Heath Road were the recreation ground can now be found. The farm was developed over a number of years and the bus service started part way through. I lived in City road as a child and watched the farm building being demolished.

Looking at newspapers, the name Turnham's (or Turnham) Farm is absent in the late 1960s when the sale of the farm and developers' first proposals must have happened. I think the land was split so each developer chose a more local name. But once Wimpey were selling houses in 1970 they were using the name, and it was adopted by the new residents, probably preferring it to a more fanciful developer's name that no-one else had heard of.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: Reading General on July 21, 2021, 07:29:03
The Turnham’s Farm house is still there at the junction of City and Little Heath road. The original 33 terminus was short of this using Barton Road as a u-turn, without any stops on it. I grew up in this area and nobody referred to it as Turnham’s Farm. Only the Rec was called that. The route was one of the first Coporation routes to leave the borough, with the original intention being that the estate at the top, the Bird’s estate and the estate around Hilden’s drive (which is half in and out) becoming part of the borough eventually. This never happened

As far as name changes of stops are concerned, I like the history involved as to finding out why particular stops have particular names. It’s a nice historical nod, like underground stations named after pubs in London.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: bradbrka on July 21, 2021, 09:18:22
The Turnham’s Farm house is still there at the junction of City and Little Heath road. The original 33 terminus was short of this using Barton Road as a u-turn, without any stops on it. I grew up in this area and nobody referred to it as Turnham’s Farm. Only the Rec was called that. The route was one of the first Coporation routes to leave the borough, with the original intention being that the estate at the top, the Bird’s estate and the estate around Hilden’s drive (which is half in and out) becoming part of the borough eventually. This never happened

As far as name changes of stops are concerned, I like the history involved as to finding out why particular stops have particular names. It’s a nice historical nod, like underground stations named after pubs in London.

The house still standing was not the farm house, it was "The White House". Another example of places or buildings changing names.

When the 33 service first started it was run with a crewed bus and was reversed into Bitterne Avenue to return back into Reading, Barton Road was still a building site at the time. When the service changed to single manned vehicles it was able to use Barton road to return.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: Reading General on July 21, 2021, 10:09:10
I assumed that was the beginning and why the loop only had the bitterne avenue stop. The Bird’s estate or City Road might have been a more appropriate name for the terminus. The 33 did make it into the Bird’s estate but retained the destination Turnham’s Farm. Withdrawn a few years later after causing a fair bit of damage to t roads, verges and trees.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: eightonedee on July 21, 2021, 11:19:58
I am enjoying the nostalgia of this thread, but it has drifted a long way away from the headline topic.

Moderators - can we have a Tilehurst Bus Nostalgia thread please? ;D


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on July 21, 2021, 12:48:42
At the risk of broadening it out into "Bus Naming Nostalgia"...

The main bus stop in Shildon in County Durham has always been called the Hippodrome.  The fascinating website about old cinemas tells me (http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/26543 (http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/26543)) that the Hippodrome cinema opened in 1911 and closed in 1962, becoming a bingo club. That continued until 1993, but it was demolished in 1994.


Title: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: Reading General on July 21, 2021, 14:26:39
At the risk of broadening it out into "Bus Naming Nostalgia"...

The main bus stop in Shildon in County Durham has always been called the Hippodrome.  The fascinating website about old cinemas tells me (http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/26543 (http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/26543)) that the Hippodrome cinema opened in 1911 and closed in 1962, becoming a bingo club. That continued until 1993, but it was demolished in 1994.


And this is why I like bus stop names to remain the same much like street names that nod to the past. Although perhaps bus terminal names is a bit too confusing for many.


Title: Re: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: grahame on July 22, 2021, 02:11:48
I am enjoying the nostalgia of this thread, but it has drifted a long way away from the headline topic.

Moderators - can we have a Tilehurst Bus Nostalgia thread please? ;D

This thread HAS now been split off from http://www.passenger.chat/25230 ....


Title: Re: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: bobm on July 22, 2021, 15:53:43
At least Turnhams Farm was used - going through the two Reading blinds I have there are a myriad of places that never were.  Probably added when Reading Buses had plans to expand.  A few local destinations in town that never saw use - but also the likes of Aylesbury, Milton Keynes and High Wycombe.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/rdgdest1.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/rdgdest2.jpg)


Title: Re: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: froome on July 22, 2021, 17:17:26
Just out of interest, as I had never heard of Turnham's Farm before seeing this thread, is there any connection between it and Turnham Green in Chiswick? If Turnham's Farm derives its name from someone called Turnham, the likelihood is that they will have originally have derived their name from Turnham Green, which was one of the original villages in the Chiswick area before it became developed.


Title: Re: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: bobm on July 22, 2021, 19:50:22
There is a sort of connection. For a short while a few Reading buses had Turnham’s Green on their blinds in error.


Title: Re: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: grahame on July 23, 2021, 06:20:02
Off topic (!) but am I the only one who thinks of "Turnham Green" as being the place where proponents of taking action against climate change live?


Title: Re: Changing (or not) place names on bus routes
Post by: Reading General on July 23, 2021, 07:12:36
In the first couple of years I was at Reading Transport a couple of the former London line MCW’s had Turnham’s Wood on the blinds. I think the earliest Delta’s dot matrix had just Bitterne Avenue. I also recall a few random blinds which had short turns that couldn’t be done and places for obvious expansion that never occurred. Hyde End Road Circular is one I remember.



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