Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => London to South Wales => Topic started by: Lee on July 31, 2021, 05:45:40 am



Title: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: Lee on July 31, 2021, 05:45:40 am
From Rail Advent: (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2021/07/the-first-great-western-railway-electric-only-train-runs-to-and-from-south-wales.html)

Quote from: Rail Advent
The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales

Train operator Great Western Railway has operated the first electric-only train to and from South Wales.

The 12 carriage Class 387 train ran from Swindon to Cardiff on the test run, and is the first time an Electrostar has travelled to Wales after the Severn Tunnel was electrified last year.

With over 700 seats, the 12-car trains can be run in addition to the IET trains when demand is required for major events such as the Six Nations Rugby Championship.

IETs ran for the first time into Wales last year, with the fleet switching to diesel to pass through the Severn Tunnel.

Running electric only trains to events at the Principality Stadium will help the operator with its plans to reduce the carbon emissions from its fleet of trains.

Further class 387s are due to take place before introducing the trains into passenger service.

GWR Managing Director Mark Hopwood said: “This is a long-term ambition, to help provide additional capacity when ‘big-ticket’ items in the city require it. The pandemic has obviously slowed the need for such services, but we have been working closely with our colleagues at Network Rail to be able to fulfil this ambition. Our IET fleet has always been capable of coping with the majority of demand on the Cardiff to London corridor for these events – the benefit of using 387s is that we can provide more seats without having to reduce IET services elsewhere to provide them.”

Interim Head of Western Alliance John Lanchester said: “This a real coup for Great Western Railway and Network Rail and it demonstrates how we’ve worked collaboratively to make sure we’re ready to operate electric-only trains into Wales.”

Network Rail’s Wales and Border route director Bill Kelly said: “Delivering electrification through the Severn Tunnel last year was a huge achievement for Network Rail and has resulted in thousands of extra seats, more frequent services and quicker and greener journeys for passengers as they travel to and from South Wales. It is great to see GWR has moved another step closer in providing an additional, all-electric passenger service for large-scale events in Cardiff off the back of our electrification work.”



Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 31, 2021, 07:47:58 am
If it's genuinely "in addition to" rather than "instead of" the current post event service the extra capacity is very welcome.

Probably an idea to install a few more toilets thought if they are going to use them for major events at the Principality stadium!


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: stuving on July 31, 2021, 12:51:46 pm
What a bizarre piece of reporting. Why pick on "electric-only" as being the key feature of 387s, and claim it helps to "reduce carbon emissions? It's not as if an IET running London-Cardiff and back is going to use a load of diesel. Surely it's more important that 387s are (1) suburban stock or (2) not cracked.

Indeed, it's odd that nothing was said about their potential short-term value filling in for absent IETs. And surely his statement that "our IET fleet has always been capable of coping with the majority of demand on the Cardiff to London corridor for these events" is open to challenge, for taking a minimalist view of what the demand would be if they ran more trains. And was it really in 2020 that IETs first ran to Cardiff, despite the tunnel being non-electric?


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: broadgage on July 31, 2021, 06:08:29 pm
"Electric only" was no doubt to differentiate between IETs and Electrostars. There has been an effort to re-brand IETs as being electric. I have been criticised for referring to IETs as DMUs.


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 31, 2021, 06:29:50 pm
"Electric only" was no doubt to differentiate between IETs and Electrostars. There has been an effort to re-brand IETs as being electric.

I agree with the first sentence.  I’m interested to know what evidence you have for the second?


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: FarWestJohn on July 31, 2021, 06:54:04 pm
I thought IETs were electro diesels.


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: bignosemac on August 02, 2021, 06:25:04 pm
I thought IETs were electro diesels.

They are. This story though is about the wholly electric Class 387 Electrostar.


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: Clan Line on August 03, 2021, 03:27:39 pm
I have been criticised for referring to IETs as DMUs.

You are quite right.................if there is a noisy Diesel engine throbbing away under my feet - it's a DMU ! Some DMUs (159s) are more pleasant to travel in than others (IETs).


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 03, 2021, 04:31:33 pm
I have been criticised for referring to IETs as DMUs.

You are quite right.................if there is a noisy Diesel engine throbbing away under my feet - it's a DMU ! Some DMUs (159s) are more pleasant to travel in than others (IETs).

We've had this discussion before.  You can indeed call them DMU's at a bit of a stretch - just like you could describe HST's as DMU's - but we all know Broadgage did it to make them sound inferior...and at every opportunity. 


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: broadgage on August 04, 2021, 03:57:56 am
I have been criticised for referring to IETs as DMUs.

You are quite right.................if there is a noisy Diesel engine throbbing away under my feet - it's a DMU ! Some DMUs (159s) are more pleasant to travel in than others (IETs).

We've had this discussion before.  You can indeed call them DMU's at a bit of a stretch - just like you could describe HST's as DMU's - but we all know Broadgage did it to make them sound inferior...and at every opportunity. 

They ARE inferior ! and not just in my view, but are generally regarded as being a backward step for long distance services if compared to the previously used HSTs.
Often too short, this being worsened by the cracks, but still a backward step before the cracks.
Hard and uncomfortable seats, generally criticised and not just by me.
No buffets, and often no catering.
No gangway between units. Trolley in the other unit if provided at all.
Inadequate facilities for cycles, not my view I do not cycle, but look at remarks elsewhere on these forums.
Poor luggage space for long distance services to holiday destinations. Surfboards prohibited, on services to a place popular for surfing.
Noise and vibration, poor ride quality.

I fully appreciate that you are more positive than me about these units, but can you really claim that 5 car to Cornwall is better than 8 ?
Or that the seats are more comfortable ?
Or that the sometimes trolley is better than a buffet ?
Or that cycle accommodation is an improvement ?
Or that noise, vibration and ride quality are better than on an HST ?

Again I appreciate that views differ, and that for example some people like the seats, but can you really claim that taking into account train length, catering, luggage/cycle space and comfort in general, that these units are NOT in fact inferior.



Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 04, 2021, 06:33:55 am
The Broadgage IET cut/paste strikes again!  :)

The point about GWR advertising extra services to a surfing event (Boardmasters) on which surfboards are prohibited is a fair one though, and is almost beyond parody.



Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: Lee on August 04, 2021, 07:16:46 am
The point about GWR advertising extra services to a surfing event (Boardmasters) on which surfboards are prohibited is a fair one though, and is almost beyond parody.

Not on this forum it isn't!

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/516WdXpPVnL._SY177_.jpg)


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: Electric train on August 04, 2021, 09:24:28 am
I thought IETs were electro diesels.

Yes they are, from Wikipedia
"An electro-diesel locomotive (also referred to as a dual-mode or bi-mode locomotive) is a type of locomotive that can be powered either from an electricity supply (like an electric locomotive) or by using the onboard diesel engine (like a diesel-electric locomotive)".

I have been criticised for referring to IETs as DMUs.

You are quite right.................if there is a noisy Diesel engine throbbing away under my feet - it's a DMU ! Some DMUs (159s) are more pleasant to travel in than others (IETs).

We've had this discussion before.  You can indeed call them DMU's at a bit of a stretch - just like you could describe HST's as DMU's - but we all know Broadgage did it to make them sound inferior...and at every opportunity. 

They ARE inferior ! and not just in my view, but are generally regarded as being a backward step for long distance services if compared to the previously used HSTs.
Often too short, this being worsened by the cracks, but still a backward step before the cracks.
Hard and uncomfortable seats, generally criticised and not just by me.
No buffets, and often no catering.
No gangway between units. Trolley in the other unit if provided at all.
Inadequate facilities for cycles, not my view I do not cycle, but look at remarks elsewhere on these forums.
Poor luggage space for long distance services to holiday destinations. Surfboards prohibited, on services to a place popular for surfing.
Noise and vibration, poor ride quality.

I fully appreciate that you are more positive than me about these units, but can you really claim that 5 car to Cornwall is better than 8 ?
Or that the seats are more comfortable ?
Or that the sometimes trolley is better than a buffet ?
Or that cycle accommodation is an improvement ?
Or that noise, vibration and ride quality are better than on an HST ?

Again I appreciate that views differ, and that for example some people like the seats, but can you really claim that taking into account train length, catering, luggage/cycle space and comfort in general, that these units are NOT in fact inferior.



I can remember the arguments 40 years ago that HST's and Mk3 coaches were a retrograde step over the classic locomotive hauled and Mk2.

The main downside of the class 800's and the same can be said for the class 700's and 387's are the seats, they are DfT spec and not the ToC.

The GW has finally got long over due electrification the difference that has made at Paddington and other stations in terms of noise and pollution is immense


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 04, 2021, 03:50:45 pm
The Broadgage IET cut/paste strikes again!  :)

My fault for leaving the door ajar this time!


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: Timmer on August 04, 2021, 04:53:27 pm
The point about GWR advertising extra services to a surfing event (Boardmasters) on which surfboards are prohibited is a fair one though, and is almost beyond parody.

Not on this forum it isn't!

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/516WdXpPVnL._SY177_.jpg)
I see GWR are advertising using the Famous Five again. I thought Enid Blyton had been ‘cancelled’.


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 04, 2021, 06:13:59 pm
I see GWR are advertising using the Famous Five again. I thought Enid Blyton had been ‘cancelled’.

On the contrary - it proved to be an extremely effective campaign for its target market, despite being laughed at by some. 

Now that leisure travel is being encouraged again it is being pushed once more.


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: TonyK on August 04, 2021, 10:18:25 pm
"Electric only" was no doubt to differentiate between IETs and Electrostars. There has been an effort to re-brand IETs as being electric. I have been criticised for referring to IETs as DMUs.

Indeed.  ;D


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: Timmer on August 06, 2021, 09:21:25 am
I see GWR are advertising using the Famous Five again. I thought Enid Blyton had been ‘cancelled’.

On the contrary - it proved to be an extremely effective campaign for its target market, despite being laughed at by some. 

Now that leisure travel is being encouraged again it is being pushed once more.
No, I was just a little surprised following attempts by some to ‘cancel’ Enid Blyton as part of the cancel culture that we live in that GWR have continued with their marketing campaign using the Famous Five.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9695159/Enid-Blytons-work-racist-xenophobic-lacking-literary-merit-says-English-Heritage.html

Usually these days some companies can’t wait to run a mile if they suspect being associated with someone or something could be brand damaging.


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 06, 2021, 10:01:19 am
Yes, I take your point.  Though I doubt you’ll see a statue of her appearing next to Brunel at Paddington any time soon.


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 06, 2021, 10:52:56 am
I see GWR are advertising using the Famous Five again. I thought Enid Blyton had been ‘cancelled’.

On the contrary - it proved to be an extremely effective campaign for its target market, despite being laughed at by some. 

Now that leisure travel is being encouraged again it is being pushed once more.

I guess that having spent so much on the advertising campaign, we have to hope that none of the Famous Five have to isolate, and that they all have Sunday as part of the working week, in order to avoid further ridicule and parody................although I guess "Five go to the BBQ", "Five wait for the replacement bus" or "Five go surfing without surfboards" could be good storylines?  :)


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: Lee on August 06, 2021, 11:57:28 am
I see GWR are advertising using the Famous Five again. I thought Enid Blyton had been ‘cancelled’.

On the contrary - it proved to be an extremely effective campaign for its target market, despite being laughed at by some. 

Now that leisure travel is being encouraged again it is being pushed once more.

I guess that having spent so much on the advertising campaign, we have to hope that none of the Famous Five have to isolate, and that they all have Sunday as part of the working week, in order to avoid further ridicule and parody................although I guess "Five go to the BBQ", "Five wait for the replacement bus" or "Five go surfing without surfboards" could be good storylines?  :)

Dont forget "Five miss out on a table again"  ;D


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: TonyK on August 07, 2021, 05:23:21 pm
Yes, I take your point.  Though I doubt you’ll see a statue of her appearing next to Brunel at Paddington any time soon.

Maybe next to Colston in Bristol docks...


I guess that having spent so much on the advertising campaign, we have to hope that none of the Famous Five have to isolate, and that they all have Sunday as part of the working week, in order to avoid further ridicule and parody................although I guess "Five go to the BBQ", "Five wait for the replacement bus" or "Five go surfing without surfboards" could be good storylines?  :)

Maybe "Five Get Pinged Again", where they all go to a night club to celebrate Freedom Day with lashings of ginger beer, but someone spikes it with cider. Julian is poorly on the dance floor, George considers the effect of pronouns, Anne wakes up with chlamydia, and Dick gets beaten behind the MetroBust totem thingy.


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: stuving on December 19, 2021, 03:06:08 pm
From 11th December, some of the services between Paddington and Bristol Parkway that were shown in timetables BL and CL with the green flash for "Electrostar Train" have been shown extended to Cardiff Central.  And the first of these ran as a 387 in passenger service yesterday (there were no weekend 387 runs to BPW before).

That was 9B14 12:13 departure arriving CDF at 14:17 (2L). It departs six minutes earlier than the usual for Cardiff trains, but arrives at a similar time (services vary quite a bit in overall timing). It is shown in RTT as "Operated with 387148+387167". It returned as 9L23, getting on time at 16:44.

Today's is timetabled later, 9B43 departing 14:13, and looks OK to Didcot (but has lost a few minutes there). It is shown, even now, as "Starts as Electric multiple unit, changes en route Starts planned at 110mph max". The return trip is 9L76 arriving 18:05, though today that is listed as an 80x.

On weekdays there is also one round trip, but much earlier: 9B04 at 7:12 and currently these are also shown as mythical 110 mph transformable EMUs.

Even with some other services running PAD<>BPW, there don't seem to be enough to make round trips out of all of these. Incidentally, there does not seem to be any indication in these timetables that these trains are standard class only. Shouldn't there be?


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: Electric train on December 20, 2021, 07:02:58 am
I find it fascinating that running a 387 on an 'Intercity' service as being a 'good to see' story!!!

If 387's had been proposed as the units to used on the GW for the on set there would have been screams of 'this is degrading the service'  although 387's are used on many other routes of services that could be classed 'Intercity'


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: PhilWakely on December 20, 2021, 10:17:50 am
I find it fascinating that running a 387 on an 'Intercity' service as being a 'good to see' story!!!

If 387's had been proposed as the units to used on the GW for the on set there would have been screams of 'this is degrading the service'  although 387's are used on many other routes of services that could be classed 'Intercity'

The same can be said of running what is essentially a middle-distance commuter train in pairs on long distance leisure services [ (c) broadgage ]  ;)


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: didcotdean on December 20, 2021, 11:41:53 am
Even with some other services running PAD<>BPW, there don't seem to be enough to make round trips out of all of these. Incidentally, there does not seem to be any indication in these timetables that these trains are standard class only. Shouldn't there be?
It is the reverse in that the other services with the black squares have "First Class accommodation, seat reservations, Wi-Fi and power points are available", whereas the 387s are just "Wi-Fi and power points are available".


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: grahame on December 20, 2021, 01:31:31 pm
Even with some other services running PAD<>BPW, there don't seem to be enough to make round trips out of all of these. Incidentally, there does not seem to be any indication in these timetables that these trains are standard class only. Shouldn't there be?
It is the reverse in that the other services with the black squares have "First Class accommodation, seat reservations, Wi-Fi and power points are available", whereas the 387s are just "Wi-Fi and power points are available".

Example from http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/nrt/125.pdf - see 9B04, the 07:12 from Paddington

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/t125_1_202012.jpg)


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: didcotdean on December 20, 2021, 03:55:15 pm
My description is that of the style of the GWR timetable rather than the NRT. Of course that begs the question why there isn't a consistency of presentation.

(https://i.gyazo.com/7999bdb691a24db28998c42964766f56.png)


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: broadgage on January 22, 2022, 05:35:50 am
I find it fascinating that running a 387 on an 'Intercity' service as being a 'good to see' story!!!

If 387's had been proposed as the units to used on the GW for the on set there would have been screams of 'this is degrading the service'  although 387's are used on many other routes of services that could be classed 'Intercity'

The same can be said of running what is essentially a middle-distance commuter train in pairs on long distance leisure services [ (c) broadgage ]  ;)

Broadgage would suggest that use of a 387 instead of an HST would have been a considerable downgrade.
IETs are however a considerable downgrade if compared to an HST, and a 387 is not much worse. Both are arguably middle distance commuter trains and not inter city.


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: grahame on January 22, 2022, 07:45:01 am
I find it fascinating that running a 387 on an 'Intercity' service as being a 'good to see' story!!!

If 387's had been proposed as the units to used on the GW for the on set there would have been screams of 'this is degrading the service'  although 387's are used on many other routes of services that could be classed 'Intercity'

The same can be said of running what is essentially a middle-distance commuter train in pairs on long distance leisure services [ (c) broadgage ]  ;)

Broadgage would suggest that use of a 387 instead of an HST would have been a considerable downgrade.
IETs are however a considerable downgrade if compared to an HST, and a 387 is not much worse. Both are arguably middle distance commuter trains and not inter city.

But ... how much of the traffic had become, is now, and will be in the future "middle distance" traffic and not inter-city?  I suspect that the product would benefit from change to relect the new market as it has become and where it could be further sustainably developed.


Title: Re: The first Great Western Railway electric-only train runs to and from South Wales
Post by: TonyK on January 22, 2022, 10:04:38 am
I find it fascinating that running a 387 on an 'Intercity' service as being a 'good to see' story!!!

If 387's had been proposed as the units to used on the GW for the on set there would have been screams of 'this is degrading the service'  although 387's are used on many other routes of services that could be classed 'Intercity'

The same can be said of running what is essentially a middle-distance commuter train in pairs on long distance leisure services [ (c) broadgage ]  ;)

Broadgage would suggest that use of a 387 instead of an HST would have been a considerable downgrade.
IETs are however a considerable downgrade if compared to an HST, and a 387 is not much worse. Both are arguably middle distance commuter trains and not inter city.

I'm glad we got that one out of the way before breakfast.


Quote
But ... how much of the traffic had become, is now, and will be in the future "middle distance" traffic and not inter-city?  I suspect that the product would benefit from change to reflect the new market as it has become and where it could be further sustainably developed.

Exactly. Passengers moving around between Reading, Swindon and Didcot, or from Bristol Parkway to Newport and Cardiff may even prefer these to an IET for ease of boarding and alighting in busy periods. Would the alternative be IET, Turbo, or no train at all?



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