Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => Your rights and redress => Topic started by: grahame on September 22, 2021, 01:44:40 pm



Title: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: grahame on September 22, 2021, 01:44:40 pm
Do you answer consultations?  If so, why, if not - why not? Please answer in generality about government (central and local) and government agents (e.g. TOCs) and not just rail specific.  Surveys by commercial companies - why you buy which brand of serial, or which brand you have hears of stuff - is not what I'm looking at.


Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: CyclingSid on September 22, 2021, 06:32:16 pm
From the creator/originator's point of view the technique is wording it so you get the answer you want. This has been the situation with some of those relating to LTNs.

Some seem to assume that the public are imbeciles and that creator/originator is going through the motions to tick a box, and has not intention of taking any notice.

I thought the DfT survey on amending the Highway Code was better than some, but that is not setting the bar very high.


Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: grahame on September 22, 2021, 06:42:57 pm
I am ... open mouthed.   A survey sent out yesterday at 13:48.   But can you see why I am open mouthed?

Quote
As part of the study, we are seeking the views of a small group of stakeholders that includes service and network operators, Councils and representative individuals and user groups. These views will be set alongside wider engagement which has recently been completed to feed into the emerging Somerset Bus Service Improvement Plan. Somerset County Council has asked that we contact you and/or your organisation to respond to our questionnaire.

We would be pleased if you could provide either a written response to the attached questionnaire, or reply to this email with your or a colleague’s phone number so that we can arrange a discussion using the questions as a guide to the conversation.

It would be appreciated if you could provide your response, or that we complete our conversation with you before 5pm on Tuesday 22 September 2021.


Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: johnneyw on September 22, 2021, 08:01:41 pm
Well Tuesday 22nd Sept doesnt exist this year, today is Wednesday 22nd September.


Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: grahame on September 22, 2021, 08:22:09 pm
Well Tuesday 22nd Sept doesnt exist this year, today is Wednesday 22nd September.

Hadn't noticed that - what I noticed was that the email announcing the consultation was sent out just 28 hours before it closed from the originating organisation. I HOPE it was a re-send, but the covering letter didn't say that it was.


Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: johnneyw on September 22, 2021, 08:42:16 pm
Well Tuesday 22nd Sept doesnt exist this year, today is Wednesday 22nd September.

Hadn't noticed that - what I noticed was that the email announcing the consultation was sent out just 28 hours before it closed from the originating organisation. I HOPE it was a re-send, but the covering letter didn't say that it was.

Worse still, if they really meant Tuesday, then it was 4 hours that they gave you.


Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: ellendune on September 22, 2021, 09:01:01 pm
If I responded to every consultation I saw I would do nothing else so I only respond to ones that affect me significantly


Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: grahame on September 22, 2021, 10:06:05 pm
Worse still, if they really meant Tuesday, then it was 4 hours that they gave you.

Looks like it was the full 28 hours - from the Somerset Bus Partnership's Facebook page ...

Quote
SOMERSET COUNTY COUNCIL GIVES 1 DAY NOTICE FOR CONSOLATION ON TAUNTON BUS STATION (AND YOU SHOULD NOTE THEY CAN'T EVEN GET THE CLOSING DATE RIGHT FOR THE CONSULTATION. THERE IS NO TUESDAY 22 SEPTEMBER! SEE CONSULTATION MESSAGE BELOW)


(Though we have heard from [name redacted] the consultation has been extended by a week).

The quality and focus of the questions that are being sent out probably should have had some stakeholder input beforehand. Surely they should have learnt from their mistakes from the Bus Back Better poor survey.

Somerset County Council are known for putting out bus consultations at most inconvenient times like over Christmas but giving 1 day or 1 weeks notice for a major consultation on the county bus station..... And the consolation it isn't listed on their consultation page: https://somerset.inconsult.uk/.../listConsultations...

We haven't seen it mentioned on their social media or in the press.



Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: PhilWakely on September 22, 2021, 11:04:23 pm

Quote
SOMERSET COUNTY COUNCIL GIVES 1 DAY NOTICE FOR CONSOLATION ON TAUNTON BUS STATION (AND YOU SHOULD NOTE THEY CAN'T EVEN GET THE CLOSING DATE RIGHT FOR THE CONSULTATION. THERE IS NO TUESDAY 22 SEPTEMBER! SEE CONSULTATION MESSAGE BELOW).

Consolation?

So, Somerset Bus Partnership points out the error in the date, but fails to notice their own typo!


Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: johnneyw on September 22, 2021, 11:30:39 pm

Quote
SOMERSET COUNTY COUNCIL GIVES 1 DAY NOTICE FOR CONSOLATION ON TAUNTON BUS STATION (AND YOU SHOULD NOTE THEY CAN'T EVEN GET THE CLOSING DATE RIGHT FOR THE CONSULTATION. THERE IS NO TUESDAY 22 SEPTEMBER! SEE CONSULTATION MESSAGE BELOW).

Consolation?

So, Somerset Bus Partnership points out the error in the date, but fails to notice their own typo!

Muphry's Law striking again?


Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: grahame on September 23, 2021, 07:52:32 am

Quote
SOMERSET COUNTY COUNCIL GIVES 1 DAY NOTICE FOR CONSOLATION ON TAUNTON BUS STATION (AND YOU SHOULD NOTE THEY CAN'T EVEN GET THE CLOSING DATE RIGHT FOR THE CONSULTATION. THERE IS NO TUESDAY 22 SEPTEMBER! SEE CONSULTATION MESSAGE BELOW).

Consolation?

So, Somerset Bus Partnership points out the error in the date, but fails to notice their own typo!

Indeed - but there is a difference.  Somerset County Council have had time to get the consultation out, proof read it, give a decent lead in for answers.  And they have staff who's very job it is to get the council's message right.  Somerset Bus Partnership has to react / forward in "emergency mode" - responding to a ridiculously short consultation period and getting the news out was / is key.

Personally, glad to have got the message out. I would probably have limited the SHOUTING to just a part of the message, but that's just style.


Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: grahame on September 23, 2021, 09:54:15 am
Message from TWSW secretary ...

Quote
I have spoken to WSP and it appears that there was an error on the original letter and the deadline is in fact the 28th of September. I realise that this is still not really long enough for a proper conversation that it is a little bit better than 24 hours.

Comment from me ...

If you want to make really bad news more acceptable, you announce it as really, really, really, really bad - and then you can get positive vibes when it becomes only really. bad.

Same thing as adding in a totally unacceptable (yet unwanted) element into a planning application which overall is contrevertial, then rowing back from that worst and unwanted part to what you really wanted in the first place, taking credit for compromising your plans in the process.

Scenario - someone has only a week to do a consultation. It's not long enough - it should 3 weeks.  So they announce it as a day, create uproar, hit the headlines with their consultation, and then extend it to the week they always intended taking credit for reacting to the community in doing so.   






Title: Re: Answering Consultations - do you? - is it worth it?
Post by: grahame on October 02, 2021, 08:22:25 pm
Very interesting ... but not really surprising ... most notable is that so many of use feel that he questions often don't let us say what we want - perhaps we are being controlled? ... Outcome:

I usually find out about them in good time to respond - 29%
I often find out about them very late and have to rush a response - 29%
I miss them far too often - only find out after closed - 35%

I find it difficult to answer many of them in the way I want - 76%
I rarely make any inputs as there doesn't seem much point - 18%
I rarely make any inputs as I have nothing useful to add - 18%

They are worthwhile responding to because they make me think - 24%
They are worthwhile responding to because my inputs have an effect 18%

I just scroll past them - I don't have the time or interest - 6%

Written up on my blog at http://grahamellis.uk/blog275.html too





This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net