Great Western Coffee Shop

Last week, my daughter needed to catch the train from Pinhoe into Exeter in the afternoon. I told her about the new Evening Out fare. When she returned home later, I asked her what fare she paid and she said 'Off-Peak Return' and showed me her Return ticket. She then told me that the Evening Out ticket was not offered on the TVM.

With a little time on my hands earlier this afternoon, I did a quick mini-survey of the twenty or so folk waiting for the 12:30; 13:30 and 14:30 trains into Exeter. Only two were aware of the Evening Out fare and both of them said that it was not offered on the TVM.

I had a look at the TVM and the front screen only offers the Anytime and Off-Peak fares on the quick selections. You only come across the Evening Out fare if you drill down through the A-Z list of stations and available fares.

Yes, I know that the fare was advertised on the SWR website, but only the two pax mentioned above used the website. All other pax just turn up and go to the ticket machine.

Not good SWR!

The quicker way is to select the off-peak equivalent, then use the ‘change’ button against the fare type on the subsequent screen. It then shows all available fares for that journey.

Discoveredthis looking for the evening out fare this weekend with time to spare. Are you aware that it exists in single format as well as day return? And appears to be available all weekend too, so it out to be renamed!

Agree that it ought to be upfront, but as I understand these front screens, they can change only between peak times and off-peak times and not subsequently later in the day. This would require changes to the national programme which TOCs without these type of fares obviously don’t want to contribute towards, thus leaving those TOCs that do an expensive upgrade.

That’s the explanation, I don’t think it’s right. But if the TOC didn’t bring in those fares (assuming that they had to pay for the upgrade if they did), would the customer prefer to lose out?

Thanks Chris, I was not aware of that method. I'll investigate.


Yes, I was aware that it is available as a Single. Sadly, it is NOT available all weekend. There is a Sunday Out equivalent available all Sunday, but Saturday before 12noon will only give you the Off-Peak Return.

If it is 'too expensive' to update the software to allow for these TOC specific fares, then the far simpler modification of a notice at the top of the front screen to say that 'Cheaper fares may be available. <followed by suitable wording pointing the customer at the correct screen.'

We've done one targeted Facebook ad re the Evening Out fare so far.  More to come.  It's a really good deal.

It does beg the question how many people are not getting the best value fare for their journey if it’s not on the first screen they see once they’ve chosen where they wish to travel to.

Most just want to purchase their ticket as simply and quickly as possible. Most won’t have the knowledge of fares and ticket machines that some on this forum have.

A cynic might suspect that the real purpose of "evening out" fares and the like is in order to run adverts that say "Look at our bargain fares from these destinations"

But to avoid reducing revenue, make only higher priced tickets readily available.

It's a good job there are no cynics on this forum, otherwise they wouldn't be able to run adverts saying "Look at our wonderful new trains to take you there" either.

I think that there might be more than one cynic on this forum.

Even I, well conversant in fares, have just been caught out.

Purchasing from the TVM at Templecombe I've just made the mistake of selecting Sherborne from the list of 'Popular Destinations' on the first screen. Wasn't concentrating hard enough. Selected my Railcard discount and paid. I've just bought an Off Peak Day Return for £3.55 when I should have purchased the Evening Out Return for £2.95. The latter is of course not offered, even after midday when it becomes valid, on the 'Popular Destinations' screen under Sherborne.

Should I complain and ask for a 60p refund?

I’d be interested in reading their response

So will I. Feedback and refund request submitted.

Good luck with that I recently made the same mistake when travelling from Pershore to Reading on a Saturday. I got an offpeak insted of a super offpeak.
I went to Reading booking office and requested a refund. I had to fill in a red form and was given a super offpeak ticket in exchange for the offpeak but the refund never arrived.

A few days later when traveling from Cheltenham to Exeter the booking clerk at Cheltenham was unable to find a Devon Ranger on the system so I bought a Tiverton parkway to Exeter ticket and went to Exeter booking office. I was given an imediate refund and then bought a Devon Ranger.

A totaly different attitude.

Today when making a quick trip to Worcester from Pershore I went to use the front screen option on the machine but spotted in time that it offers a single as the default. So had I not noticed I would have paid £3.10 for a single journey (with railcard) instead of £3.20 return.

Did you use the "Ticket machine price guarantee" on this page? https://www.southwesternrailway.com/contact-and-help/train-ticket-refunds

I haven't. I wasn't aware of that until seeing your post. At least SWR recognise that using a TVM can lead to being overcharged. I would prefer it though if the machines offered the correct fare for the time of day without the user both knowing there's a cheaper fare and then searching for it.

I'd like to hear SWRs justification for the way their machines are programmed. That's more important to me than the 60p.

GWR are not so Helpfull.

https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/unused-ticket-refunds (https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/unused-ticket-refunds)

It’s a national issue.

There was only one ‘swap-over’ time programmed into the TVM software - from AM peak to off-peak. Frankly, until re-programme can take place, it would be better with no popular fares screen & simply to show all fares between origin & destination available for travel at times specified & let the customer choose.

A software issue that should and could be fixed.

However, the TOCs seemingly prefer the option of only refunding those who are aware they've been overcharged and take the time to chase up said refund. The vast majority are just overcharged. In any other industry such routine mis-selling would be investigated and stopped by statutory bodies.

And doing as you suggest ChrisB would itself involve - err - reprogramming would it not?

By the way, as I understand it there is no (or not much) of a "peak" any longer  ... the switch is from anytime fares ...

I balked at the word "unlikely" ... as I have seen so many incidents of overcharging.  But I guess it's right, because so few people who are sold a ticket by a TVM then research it to check if it was right.   Noting also "may" which suggests "or may not" ...

I suspect that there would be a significant loss of income if the TVMs were reprogrammed to make them much better at providing the lowest cost fare(s) for the journey being made, which might be why they are described at so hard to reprogram.

Yes to your first point, but as its a simpler removal of the popular fares screen a quicker & far cheaper job.

As to your second point, I disagree. The fares migh be ‘anytime’, but they’re the valid fares at PEAK times. The morning & evening still have peak times that these fares are valid!

I got a reply. Of sorts. Fails to address the points in my complaint. Introduced a Railcard issue I didn't raise. Did however refund the difference in fares, with interest.

Score 2/10.

See attached.