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All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: bradshaw on October 23, 2021, 11:13:47



Title: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: bradshaw on October 23, 2021, 11:13:47
To be announced in next week’s budget.

Quote
  England's city regions are set to receive billions of pounds to improve public transport in next week's Budget.
 West of England (£540m): A fully prioritised bus route between Bristol and Bath

From https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59017503


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 23, 2021, 11:46:16
It's 23km, bus station to bus station, from Bristol to Bath, so £540 million would equate to about £24 million per km. That would be about five times the cost per km of reopening the Borders Railway. Note also that the article refers to 'prioritised' rather than 'segregated'. I thing we have to conclude that there's more to this than some paint and traffic signals!

I worry what effect this might have on the RYR proposals for St Annes Park and Saltford, or indeed for the Callington Greenway... or indeed whether this turns out to be another thinly-disguised road-building scheme.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: stuving on October 23, 2021, 11:53:46
It's 23km, bus station to bus station, from Bristol to Bath, so £540 million would equate to about £24 million per km. That would be about five times the cost per km of reopening the Borders Railway. Note also that the article refers to 'prioritised' rather than 'segregated'. I thing we have to conclude that there's more to this than some paint and traffic signals!

I read that as £540M is the total for the region, and the Bristol-Bath Bus route is just item from a list of projects. Some other regions get two items listed, but they will presumably have longer lists too.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: TonyK on October 23, 2021, 19:19:17
It's 23km, bus station to bus station, from Bristol to Bath, so £540 million would equate to about £24 million per km. That would be about five times the cost per km of reopening the Borders Railway. Note also that the article refers to 'prioritised' rather than 'segregated'. I thing we have to conclude that there's more to this than some paint and traffic signals!

I worry what effect this might have on the RYR proposals for St Annes Park and Saltford, or indeed for the Callington Greenway... or indeed whether this turns out to be another thinly-disguised road-building scheme.

I worry that this may be MetroBust II.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: broadgage on October 23, 2021, 22:46:39
Buses are most useful transport solutions for local or short distance journeys, and also for some longer opportunities when passenger numbers are very limited and do not justify a railway line.

I can not support longer distance bus routes for significant passenger numbers, as a cheaper alternative to use of an existing rail line, or even building a new line.

Metrobust, new improved version ?


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 24, 2021, 11:33:05
I'd presume that figure includes things like the proposed bus priority scheme on the A4018, pedestrianisation of Park St, making permanent the temporary pedestrian schemes on eg Cotham Hill and Princess Victoria Street, and of course similar throughout the region.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 24, 2021, 13:31:31
I'd presume that figure includes things like the proposed bus priority scheme on the A4018, pedestrianisation of Park St, making permanent the temporary pedestrian schemes on eg Cotham Hill and Princess Victoria Street, and of course similar throughout the region.

I'm sure you're right about other bus priority schemes. The pedestrianisation schemes however are presumably considered to be 'active travel' rather than public transport. I hear noises from the walking and cycling lobby that WECA's bid for additional active travel funding failed. Presumably the detail of all this will emerge over the coming weeks!

New 'priority' bus corridors are sure to be branded 'MetroBus'. That is a tainted brand for many of us here, but perhaps not for the travelling public.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: TonyK on October 24, 2021, 14:18:46

New 'priority' bus corridors are sure to be branded 'MetroBus'. That is a tainted brand for many of us here, but perhaps not for the travelling public.

For the people using the service from Hengrove via Knowle West, it is known as "the bus". Many of the LA park and ride customers have other names for it, especially when it has to go the long way round because of the crumbling infrastructure. I have only known people from Bradley Stoke to speak well of it, and they would have spoke weller of a tram network. I don't know anyone from Lyde Green.

For me, the Temple Meads to Long Ashton route will always be the Bristol Airport Expressway, one of the few true green initiatives the city has managed, whisking me and my beloved without delay or belching diesel fumes from anywhere in Bristol to the start of a journey to somewhere with decent public transport.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: stuving on October 24, 2021, 14:24:57
To be announced in next week’s budget.

Yes, but isn't this Rishi continuing George Osborne's favourite trick of announcing other minsters' decisionsas his own, and reannouncing previous ones, just because they involve spending money? This is from some DfT guidance on City Region Sustainable Transport Settlements (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/city-region-sustainable-transport-settlements-developing-proposals/city-region-sustainable-transport-settlements-guidance-for-mayoral-combined-authorities), dated 12/8/2021:
Quote
Objectives

The following 8 large metropolitan areas are mainstays of our work to level up in England:

    West Midlands
    Greater Manchester
    Liverpool City Region
    the North East
    the Tees Valley
    West Yorkshire
    Sheffield City Region
    the West of England around Bristol and Bath

As the National Infrastructure Assessment – and our response to it, the National Infrastructure Strategy – agree, one important weakness of many of these great city regions, affecting their productivity, is the quality of their local transport networks, particularly public transport, compared to London and their counterparts in Europe.

This new City Region Sustainable Transport Settlement (CRSTS), which is an unprecedented investment in local transport networks, is a major driver for significant change.

This new fund stems from the announcement we made in 2019 that the 8 eligible English city regions would receive £4.2 billion of additional funding for local transport networks. That new money is at the core of this fund and should allow city regions to commence transformational change.
...

So, if that's still "new money" - and even "additional" - add some real new money*  to the total, and approve a few things already in the pipeline ... and that's something to go in Wednesday's budget speech. Quick! organise an official leak! (Or was it an unofficial announcement?)

*Or we may find it's also old "new money" too, of course.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Reading General on October 24, 2021, 14:38:26


New 'priority' bus corridors are sure to be branded 'MetroBus'. That is a tainted brand for many of us here, but perhaps not for the travelling public.

In Reading we’ve gone for BRT as the title of new and planned bus lanes along roads that pass where nobody lives. The bus company like to put ‘track’ or ‘wave’ after particular routes but they are simply limited stop buses that don’t serve much purpose outside of the standard Monday to Friday working hours, they also come with rather complicated routings. I’ve never been a fan of branding, build something fine but don’t try to sell it as a glamorous lifestyle choice. If it improves things for several bus routes I think people are relatively happy but branding a section of road is ridiculous.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: ChrisB on October 24, 2021, 14:52:06
It’s £1.5billion of new money across the areas. Sunak also said that this is the first time the actual amounts per area have been announced, so new ‘actual’ amounts


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: TonyK on October 24, 2021, 17:16:34
It’s £1.5billion of new money across the areas. Sunak also said that this is the first time the actual amounts per area have been announced, so new ‘actual’ amounts

Probably to include £80 million to rebuild the line to Portishead.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: grahame on October 24, 2021, 18:41:47
It’s £1.5billion of new money across the areas. Sunak also said that this is the first time the actual amounts per area have been announced, so new ‘actual’ amounts

Probably to include £80 million to rebuild the line to Portishead.

And let's hope that's money for shovels in the ground, rails on sleepers, platforms and signalling ... and not just investigations, consultations, enquires and legal fees.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 24, 2021, 18:50:31
I'd presume that figure includes things like the proposed bus priority scheme on the A4018, pedestrianisation of Park St, making permanent the temporary pedestrian schemes on eg Cotham Hill and Princess Victoria Street, and of course similar throughout the region.

I'm sure you're right about other bus priority schemes. The pedestrianisation schemes however are presumably considered to be 'active travel' rather than public transport.
Yes. Well spotted. I've got so used to them being lumped in together, 'active and public transport', that I'd forgotten or failed to notice this doesn't mention 'active'.
Quote
I hear noises from the walking and cycling lobby that WECA's bid for additional active travel funding failed. Presumably the detail of all this will emerge over the coming weeks!
This is probably a shame but not a huge surprise.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 24, 2021, 18:56:07
On the Metrobus name, my son (17) recently had to go to Bottle Yard studios in deepest south Bristol. He used the Metrobus but even before he'd used it, just looking at the timetable and website he commented that it's really just a bus like all the other buses. Apparently it doesn't even have special tickets anymore (or at least, a day ticket from the ordinary First buses is valid on Metrobuses and vice versa). So I'd say it's not so much a tainted name as a non-name. Or rather, as TonyK says, people are (no longer, if they ever were) taking the name as an indication of anything other than a bus.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: broadgage on October 24, 2021, 22:25:57
It’s £1.5billion of new money across the areas. Sunak also said that this is the first time the actual amounts per area have been announced, so new ‘actual’ amounts

Probably to include £80 million to rebuild the line to Portishead.

And let's hope that's money for shovels in the ground, rails on sleepers, platforms and signalling ... and not just investigations, consultations, enquires and legal fees.

What about newts and bats ?


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 01, 2021, 14:40:01
The WECA City Region Sustainable Transport Settlement gives, I think, a slightly more nuanced view of how the money will be spent. It splits into 6 Work Packages:

1: Improving our strategic public transport corridors
2: Walking and cycling
3: Developing our rail infrastructure
4: Innovation
5: Mass transit
6: Maintenance and small schemes.

WP3 appears to include the WECA 10-year Rail Plan:

Quote
The Combined Authority has a 10 Year Rail Delivery Plan, setting out the changes required to attract car users and incentivise rail use. Building on MetroWest 1 and 2, and the Bristol Temple Meads Eastern Entrance, this plan will transform the regional rail network, making stations accessible and providing capacity for ‘turn up and go’ services. This will increase access to jobs and neighbourhoods, ensuring equal opportunities while reducing reliance on cars and the region’s carbon impact from transport. Our five-year programme can be broken down as:

New stations:
Building on our delivery experience of constructing five new stations under the MetroWest programme, a new station will be delivered at Charfield providing access to the rail network for up to 14,500 residents within 5km, reducing car dependency in Charfield and neighbouring areas.

Accessibility:
Working to make our stations safe, attractive and accessible, and easy to access via walking and cycling. Focusing first on those stations providing services to our most deprived
communities: Lawrence Hill, Bristol; Parsons Street, Bristol; Bedminster, Bristol; Stapleton Road, Bristol; Oldfield Park, Bath.

Future services:
To further improve connectivity and capacity we are progressing plans to extend MetroWest to the south, increasing frequency of services between Bristol Temple Meads and locations such as Weston-super-Mare and Taunton. This will better link people and jobs, enhancing the economic prospects of our residents and supporting reduction of car travel. This increase in services will likely require infrastructure interventions and we are undertaking a feasibility assessment to understand the extent of physical works.

In addition to upgrading existing stations, we are evaluating major enhancements at Bristol Temple Meads, improving capacity to meet demand whilst celebrating the station’s unique heritage and its role as a gateway to the city. Network Rail, Bristol City Council, Homes England and the Combined Authority will collaboratively develop plans for northern and southern entrances to Bristol Temple Meads. Project delivery will be integrated with planned Temple Quarter Regeneration Programme works. We anticipate this to be funded through an existing bid to Homes England and MHCLG to increase housing capacity in the city centre.

Through our rail programme the Combined Authority has created high-performing partnerships with industry partners. Our work will be delivered through our existing partnership with Network Rail and GWR, and by directly-appointed experienced consultants and contractors where appropriate. The delivery of the Eastern Entrance is testament to that partnership.

Full details here: https://www.westofengland-ca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/West-of-England-Combined-Authority-CRSTS.pdf


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Lee on November 01, 2021, 15:06:27
Quote
New stations:
Building on our delivery experience of constructing five new stations under the MetroWest programme, a new station will be delivered at Charfield providing access to the rail network for up to 14,500 residents within 5km, reducing car dependency in Charfield and neighbouring areas.

"Delivery experience"  ??? ??? - How many out of those five have actually been "delivered" then  ??? ???

You gotta laugh...


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 01, 2021, 16:40:47
You make an interesting point, Lee.

The 5 stations in question appear to be Portishead, Pill, Ashley Down, North Filton and Henbury. All of these except Henbury have reached the 'planning application' stage, as has Charfield, so it's puzzling that Charfield is not considered to be one of the five. And they don't mention Portway P&R... all rather odd.

Gratifying that they colour the proposed stations in FoSBR yellow on the map!


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: TonyK on November 02, 2021, 08:16:36
You make an interesting point, Lee.

The 5 stations in question appear to be Portishead, Pill, Ashley Down, North Filton and Henbury. All of these except Henbury have reached the 'planning application' stage, as has Charfield, so it's puzzling that Charfield is not considered to be one of the five. And they don't mention Portway P&R... all rather odd.

Gratifying that they colour the proposed stations in FoSBR yellow on the map!

I assume delivery includes anything that is Partway delivered. It's a bit of a Comical Ali stretch of the point, though.

The political pamphlet does little to suggest that much will change. Illustrating the section "The transport system we want" with a photo of someone pushing a bicycle up a steep hill didn't give the impression of the transport system I would like, to be honest. The numbers later in the "report" don't suggest that the fabled Mass Transit system is a serious idea. The budget for that comes to less than a twelfth of that for strategic corridors and walking. The lower estimate of £31 million will only just pay for diversity training for the bus lane engagement team's well-being coaches, leaving little for digging tunnels below the city.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 02, 2021, 11:06:00
The woman in the picture on P.17 is pushing her bike up Corn Street (see https://goo.gl/maps/arrnfAPeNuoQtkq76 for an image with less foreshortening). Even the least-fit cyclist should be able to manage that ascent easily. If I was to buy into the narrative that the subjects were real members of the public, I could easily construct a version of events in which the woman with the bicycle had met a friend who was walking through the newly car-free Old City, and had got off her bicycle to chat.

Which is exactly the kind of transport system, in exactly the kind of city, that many of us (but perhaps not all!) want.

I agree though that it's not entirely clear which of the Work Packages involve actually building things as opposed to developing business plans or considering options. It would be easy, but perhaps not wise, to make assumptions.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: TonyK on November 02, 2021, 16:22:33

I agree though that it's not entirely clear which of the Work Packages involve actually building things as opposed to developing business plans or considering options. It would be easy, but perhaps not wise, to make assumptions.

You are absolutely right, but it won't stop me.  ;D


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 02, 2021, 16:48:36

I agree though that it's not entirely clear which of the Work Packages involve actually building things as opposed to developing business plans or considering options. It would be easy, but perhaps not wise, to make assumptions.

You are absolutely right, but it won't stop me.  ;D

Well to be honest it hasn't stopped me either.

The press, including Rail magazine, think WECA's going to blow the whole lot on a bus lane. Presumably they imagine this will be paved with diamond cobbles, and served by platinum-plated buses with velvet guidewheels powered by finest quality unicorm flatus.

My guess from a rail perspective is that building the new stations is included. Obviously it can't include much more than design work for any rapid transit system. It could well be that a new road, imaginatively linking Sainsbury's with Tesco as an alternative to Bath Road, accounts for a hundred million or so.

As with other unfolding stories, we can't be sure. We'll just have to be patient and wait for the details to emerge.


Title: Re: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath
Post by: TonyK on November 02, 2021, 21:58:50

The press, including Rail magazine, think WECA's going to blow the whole lot on a bus lane.

They must have gone over the history of hopeful transport plans in the area.



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