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All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: Lee on November 27, 2021, 06:57:59 pm



Title: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Lee on November 27, 2021, 06:57:59 pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1464644529101975558


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 27, 2021, 10:05:08 pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1464644529101975558

Good news. Hope it's enforced.

Stay safe everyone.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: broadgage on November 28, 2021, 01:49:33 am
Cant see how it can be enforced, anyone who does not want to wear a mask simply has to say "exempt mate"


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 28, 2021, 08:36:49 am
Cant see how it can be enforced, anyone who does not want to wear a mask simply has to say "exempt mate"

Make the carrying of exemption cards mandatory.

Not a perfect solution, but it'd help.



Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Lee on November 28, 2021, 09:04:51 am
Cant see how it can be enforced, anyone who does not want to wear a mask simply has to say "exempt mate"

Make the carrying of exemption cards mandatory.

Not a perfect solution, but it'd help.



Over here in France, where masks have bern compulsory on public transport throughout the pandemic, you can't simply say "exempt mate" - you need to show a medical certificate issued by a doctor for a very limited range of exemptions.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: GBM on November 28, 2021, 09:14:36 am
Over here in France, where masks have been compulsory on public transport throughout the pandemic, you can't simply say "exempt mate" - you need to show a medical certificate issued by a doctor for a very limited range of exemptions.

Doctor? A rare species down far west!
Masks should have stayed compulsory on transport and in shops.  As a bus driver, it irks me to see passengers without a mask.
Certainly I know most of my colleagues will refuse boarding if no mask and no exemption lanyard


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Lee on November 28, 2021, 09:45:20 am
Over here in France, where masks have been compulsory on public transport throughout the pandemic, you can't simply say "exempt mate" - you need to show a medical certificate issued by a doctor for a very limited range of exemptions.

Doctor? A rare species down far west!
 

The few that do qualify on medical grounds over here will tend to already be in regular treatment for their ailments, and in such circumstances the doctor can either issue the certificate during a regular appointment, or without appointment to be picked up at reception, in order to avoid clogging up the system.

In practice though, you rarely see the mask-exempt on public transport over here. They are far less likely to be able to work, and will qualify for patient transport from home to specialist appointments paid for by the state. Also, many will simply not want to take the risk purely for leisure purposes.

Certainly whenever I take a train or bus, it is almost without fail wall to wall masks on show.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: JayMac on November 28, 2021, 12:26:37 pm
Make the carrying of exemption cards mandatory.

Not a perfect solution, but it'd help.

And who polices it? Shopkeepers? Public transport staff? I don't think those with hidden disabilities should need to prove their disability to any Tom, Dick or Harry. Nor be forced by law to wear or carry something that advertises they are disabled.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: PhilWakely on November 28, 2021, 12:39:25 pm
Make the carrying of exemption cards mandatory.

Not a perfect solution, but it'd help.

And who polices it? Shopkeepers? Public transport staff? I don't think those with hidden disabilities should need to prove their disability to any Tom, Dick or Harry. Nor be forced by law to wear or carry something that advertises they are disabled.

I do feel for those with a genuine hidden disability. There have been many posts on various social media indicating that sunflower lanyards can be purchased without the need for proof and at a cheaper cost than masks. Many posters have indicated their intention to purchase the lanyard.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 28, 2021, 12:48:51 pm
I think to a large extent mask-wearing is self-enforcing by public example. The more people that wear them, the more it encourages others. And the other way of course, the fewer people that wear them, the more it encourages others not to.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: grahame on November 28, 2021, 01:18:39 pm
There's no perfect solution here.   My personal take - I am accepting and supportive of mandated wearing of masks for everyone except those who have a genuine reason not to.  By the very act of not wearing a mask, those people are already labelling themselves as having *something* which prevents a mask being warn, and it seems sensible to offer them the opportunity, should they wish, to wear a sunflower lanyard.  It says "look - I know I'm not wearing a mask, but I have thought this through, so please don't challenge me to remind me.

Enforcement is a difficult one - in view of the numbers of people involved, it seems reasonable to let people "self-certify" that they can be maskless, and on that basis the lanyards should be freely available.  By wearing a lanyard, through, people are making a statement and there probably needs (yuk!) to be some form of challenge available to certain authorities - we could argue who - to ask people to confirm they're genuine.  Having made the "look I don't need one" statement, the wearer of a lanyard gives the authorities a strong case against them if it turns out they are NOT exempt - it rules out the "I forgot" excuse and indeed shows pre-meditated actions. 


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 28, 2021, 01:30:23 pm
Make the carrying of exemption cards mandatory.

Not a perfect solution, but it'd help.

And who polices it? Shopkeepers? Public transport staff? I don't think those with hidden disabilities should need to prove their disability to any Tom, Dick or Harry. Nor be forced by law to wear or carry something that advertises they are disabled.

TfL have enforcement officers and yes, I'd expect the relevant staff in each sector to police it.


The exemption card doesn't advertise anyone's disability, it merely indicates that an individual is exempt from wearing a mask, it doesn't only apply to disability, there are other exemptions too.

In fact it "advertises" it a great deal less than the Disabled Person's railcard......or a lanyard for that matter.

I hear you, but this is about the greater good, protecting the NHS, and saving lives. Everyone has to play their part.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: broadgage on November 28, 2021, 04:48:10 pm
Cant see how it can be enforced, anyone who does not want to wear a mask simply has to say "exempt mate"

Make the carrying of exemption cards mandatory.

Not a perfect solution, but it'd help.



I agree, but consider that the chances of this happening in the UK are effectively zero.
It would be considered contrary to peoples human rights. Possibly also racist.
And WHOM would enforce it ? Most, perhaps all TOCs struggle to collect fares in the late evening, and smoking is de-facto permitted in the late evening. In order to avoid attacks on staff.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: ellendune on November 28, 2021, 06:34:58 pm
Cant see how it can be enforced, anyone who does not want to wear a mask simply has to say "exempt mate"
Make the carrying of exemption cards mandatory.
Not a perfect solution, but it'd help.

I agree, but consider that the chances of this happening in the UK are effectively zero.
It would be considered contrary to peoples human rights. Possibly also racist.
And WHOM would enforce it ? Most, perhaps all TOCs struggle to collect fares in the late evening, and smoking is de-facto permitted in the late evening. In order to avoid attacks on staff.

Furthermore who would issue them. We do not have enough GP's as it is and many of them are already burnt out. If the government were to ask them to do it I expect they would simply refuse. 


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 28, 2021, 07:09:43 pm
Cant see how it can be enforced, anyone who does not want to wear a mask simply has to say "exempt mate"
Make the carrying of exemption cards mandatory.
Not a perfect solution, but it'd help.

I agree, but consider that the chances of this happening in the UK are effectively zero.
It would be considered contrary to peoples human rights. Possibly also racist.
And WHOM would enforce it ? Most, perhaps all TOCs struggle to collect fares in the late evening, and smoking is de-facto permitted in the late evening. In order to avoid attacks on staff.

Furthermore who would issue them. We do not have enough GP's as it is and many of them are already burnt out. If the government were to ask them to do it I expect they would simply refuse. 

TfL issue them, or will send you a badge if you prefer, or you can download them from the TfL or gov.uk websites.

I believe some TOCs issue them too as well as lanyards.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 30, 2021, 04:22:17 pm
Message seems to be getting through. Got an early morning bus in Plymouth this morning, everyone masked, one girl attempted to board at a stop without one, driver asked her why, she said "I don't want to wear a f***ing mask" so he told her to get off, which she did.

Now on 1514 Plymouth-Paddington, seems to be virtually 100% masked, everyone playing by the rules (passengers and staff).

Encouraging.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 30, 2021, 05:55:12 pm
A bit of a contrast with my journey from Montpelier to London and back last weekend! Both IETs were overcrowded, and on-train staff were requesting passengers to move bags so that all seats could be occupied.  I'd estimate that somewhere over half the passengers were wearing masks.

Maybe 60% of tube passengers were wearing masks.

On the return leg (a 5 car set), with three of my family at a table, someone joined us and I asked if he minded wearing his mask. He put it on, but another passenger nearby said 'Seriously?' in a sarcastic tone of voice and continued to make sneering jibes for the rest of the journey. All quite unpleasant. The train crew were in no position to help, as they could not get through the train.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 30, 2021, 06:11:54 pm
A bit of a contrast with my journey from Montpelier to London and back last weekend! Both IETs were overcrowded, and on-train staff were requesting passengers to move bags so that all seats could be occupied.  I'd estimate that somewhere over half the passengers were wearing masks.

Maybe 60% of tube passengers were wearing masks.

On the return leg (a 5 car set), with three of my family at a table, someone joined us and I asked if he minded wearing his mask. He put it on, but another passenger nearby said 'Seriously?' in a sarcastic tone of voice and continued to make sneering jibes for the rest of the journey. All quite unpleasant. The train crew were in no position to help, as they could not get through the train.

This one always sums it up for me.....


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: broadgage on November 30, 2021, 10:05:22 pm
It would seem that many major supermarkets are not going to enforce the wearing of face masks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59481287 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59481287)


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 30, 2021, 10:37:07 pm
I think that’s a fair response from the supermarkets.  As with public transport, staff should be encouraged to advise and remind (and set an example), but not enforce. 

‘Enforcement’, in the literal sense at least, should be down to the police.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Bmblbzzz on December 01, 2021, 04:09:25 pm
Megabus Bristol to Manchester last weekend, absolutely zero mask wearing. Manchester also seemed to be generally a very low mask-wearing environment in shops etc, much lower than Bristol even. I wonder how many would be masked on the same journey this w/e?


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: JayMac on December 02, 2021, 12:43:38 am
This one always sums it up for me.....

This is, what sums it up for me.
(Examples of mask exemptions from the Government's most recent Covid advice - not an exhaustive list)

Quote
children under the age of 11 (The UK Health and Security Agency does not recommend face coverings for children under the age of 3 for health and safety reasons)

people who cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability

people for whom putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause severe distress

people speaking to or providing assistance to someone who relies on lip reading, clear sound or facial expressions to communicate

to avoid the risk of harm or injury to yourself or others

police officers and other emergency workers, given that this may interfere with their ability to serve the public

Memes about intubation are way off the mark.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 02, 2021, 07:07:57 am
This one always sums it up for me.....

This is, what sums it up for me.
(Examples of mask exemptions from the Government's most recent Covid advice - not an exhaustive list)

Quote
children under the age of 11 (The UK Health and Security Agency does not recommend face coverings for children under the age of 3 for health and safety reasons)

people who cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability

people for whom putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause severe distress

people speaking to or providing assistance to someone who relies on lip reading, clear sound or facial expressions to communicate

to avoid the risk of harm or injury to yourself or others

police officers and other emergency workers, given that this may interfere with their ability to serve the public

Memes about intubation are way off the mark.

There are those who are genuinely, legally exempt, and there are those who've decided for themselves that they are going to be exempt, mainly for spurious reasons or because of an attitude problem - the scenario cited by Red Squirrel to which it was a response gives context.

......anyway back to more positive news - my trip to work yesterday was Taplow to Ealing Broadway (TfL) and Central line from Ealing Broadway to White City (and return) yesterday - mask wearing nearly 100% from what I could see, on platforms too.

A few young rebels similar to those encountered by Red Squirrel on the Underground heading home, sneering and making comments along the lines of "every farm needs its sheep", to which an older lady responded (from behind her mask) ".....and every circus needs its clowns", which very nearly earned her a round of applause!!!  :)

It really does seem that the message is getting through on public transport - albeit belatedly and/or after a slack period - every member of rail staff I saw was similarly masked too.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Lee on December 02, 2021, 07:45:28 am
This one always sums it up for me.....

This is, what sums it up for me.
(Examples of mask exemptions from the Government's most recent Covid advice - not an exhaustive list)

Quote
children under the age of 11 (The UK Health and Security Agency does not recommend face coverings for children under the age of 3 for health and safety reasons)

people who cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability

people for whom putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause severe distress

people speaking to or providing assistance to someone who relies on lip reading, clear sound or facial expressions to communicate

to avoid the risk of harm or injury to yourself or others

police officers and other emergency workers, given that this may interfere with their ability to serve the public

Memes about intubation are way off the mark.

There are those who are genuinely, legally exempt, and there are those who've decided for themselves that they are going to be exempt, mainly for spurious reasons or because of an attitude problem - the scenario cited by Red Squirrel to which it was a response gives context.

......anyway back to more positive news - my trip to work yesterday was Taplow to Ealing Broadway (TfL) and Central line from Ealing Broadway to White City (and return) yesterday - mask wearing nearly 100% from what I could see, on platforms too.

A few young rebels similar to those encountered by Red Squirrel on the Underground heading home, sneering and making comments along the lines of "every farm needs its sheep", to which an older lady responded (from behind her mask) ".....and every circus needs its clowns", which very nearly earned her a round of applause!!!  :)

It really does seem that the message is getting through on public transport - albeit belatedly and/or after a slack period - every member of rail staff I saw was similarly masked too.

As I've said before, it is extremely rare that anybody tries to go maskless on trains here in Brittany, but one young lady did try it last night on the 1744 from Guingamp to Carhaix. It lasted less than 5 minutes after strong rebukes from two nearby passengers, with another turning round to me further up the train and saying "Did you see that? She wasn't wearing a mask!"


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 02, 2021, 03:11:53 pm
Germany upping the ante.....I believe the unvaccinated are already banned from public transport?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/germany-omicron-lockdown/


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Western Pathfinder on December 02, 2021, 10:40:28 pm
Not particularly pleased to see the F word in the above post perhaps TG would care to amend it .


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Marlburian on December 03, 2021, 09:23:59 am
More than 150 maskless train passengers hit with £200 fines (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maskless-train-passengers-hit-200-25605781)


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on December 04, 2021, 09:00:18 am
In case anyone new to this thread is wondering, with some trepidation, what the F word referred to above was, it was in fact…. Fatherland.  So hardly a reason to get upset.

But back on the topic.  I’m off on the train to Taunton later.  I don’t approve of compulsory mask wearing and I don’t like wearing a mask especially as I have glasses and hearing aids.  The evidence (as opposed to views) on their usefulness is a bit thin.

However, I will wear a mask on the train as it’s now a legal requirement and I’ve no wish to create difficulties for GWR staff.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: JayMac on December 04, 2021, 10:36:21 pm
Its a shame that the current message from Govt is only masks. What's happened to the social distancing, hand washing, sanitising, and avoiding large gatherings messages? All equally important in reducing transmission rates and in some cases, more so.

Legislating only for mask wearing this time round, and in more limited areas of everyday life (no requirement in the workplace, sporting venues, entertainment venues, gyms, education establishments) is sending out a very mixed message. And it's likely to have little effect if new variants prove able to infect the vaccinated.

HMG are seemingly reluctant to spoil Christmas or further affect the economy, but Covid 19 is no respecter of a date on the calendar or economics. Scientists are already calling for more measures, but Boris is apparently sticking to his 'irreversible' roadmap. Foolhardy.

Masks are but one string of the bow. A decent bow needs more strings to it.



Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 05, 2021, 09:04:44 am
Its a shame that the current message from Govt is only masks. What's happened to the social distancing, hand washing, sanitising, and avoiding large gatherings messages? All equally important in reducing transmission rates and in some cases, more so.

Legislating only for mask wearing this time round, and in more limited areas of everyday life (no requirement in the workplace, sporting venues, entertainment venues, gyms, education establishments) is sending out a very mixed message. And it's likely to have little effect if new variants prove able to infect the vaccinated.

HMG are seemingly reluctant to spoil Christmas or further affect the economy, but Covid 19 is no respecter of a date on the calendar or economics. Scientists are already calling for more measures, but Boris is apparently sticking to his 'irreversible' roadmap. Foolhardy.

Masks are but one string of the bow. A decent bow needs more strings to it.



I wouldn't disagree with much of that, I think you'd have had to be living under a stone to miss the renewed messages about handwashing and sanitising but social distancing seems to have been quietly forgotten.

As for sporting venues, I was at Twickenham for England v South Africa a few weeks ago and throughout all the pre match messaging people were told to bring a "COVID pass" - having got through the gate, no-one seemed to be checked - friends who went to England v Australia said much the same, one or two were asked "have you got a COVID pass?" and when they said yes were just waved through without any checking.

At work we are told to don masks when moving around the building and only remove them when at desks which I think is the general rule but overall messaging from Government is mixed to say the least.

I think public transport and shops may have been identified firstly because they were areas where (for the most part) observance fell off a cliff once it became optional, but there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of logic being applied in a lot of the other, similar environments you mention.

.................when is the Coffee shop Christmas party by the way? And will snogging be permitted?  :)


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Mark A on December 05, 2021, 01:07:57 pm

On the return leg (a 5 car set)...


OT but the prospect of a 5 car set rocking up on one of GWR's services is a disincentive to me using their services at all partlcularly for the moment. As they've not actually cancelled the train, is there any sort of penalty to the TOC in running a 5 car set in place of a 10 car set? Aside from the hit to the customer experience...

Also, the financial arrangements between the TOC and the train provider when this happens, that will be commercially confidential, yes?

Mark


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 10, 2021, 05:43:16 pm
Get those boosters folks!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59615005


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Lee on December 10, 2021, 05:58:51 pm
Get those boosters folks!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59615005

Just booked mine for 27 December!


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 28, 2022, 03:49:15 pm
Mask wearing seems to have dropped down to roughly 10-20% on public transport and in shops now.


Title: Re: Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
Post by: Marlburian on April 28, 2022, 05:46:58 pm
Mask wearing seems to have dropped down to roughly 10-20% on public transport and in shops now.

I don't bother to wear a mask in shops that are spacious and/or quiet. I do my Big Shop in a supermarket as soon as it opens at 0730, when there are only a dozen or so other customers there. Were I to go there later in the day, I would wear a mask.

Just had a letter from SpecSavers reminding me it's time for my annual check-up - before booking an appointment, I'll be checking what precautions they're still taking, given the test is very face-to-face.

For the test, I'll be making a five-minute train journey into town and expect there to be very few other passengers, so shan't wear a mask. If I return when it's busier I shall.

I had my fourth jab two weeks ago, so reckon to have good immunity for a while. And hopefully infections will decrease over the summer months. Come autumn though ...



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