Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => South Western services => Topic started by: grahame on December 30, 2021, 15:33:16



Title: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: grahame on December 30, 2021, 15:33:16
Copied on to me - sent to "relevant stakeholder on the South Western Railway network" which appears to be a list I / we are not on:

Quote
Dear Xxxxx,

The onset of the Omicron variant has led to and is continuing to cause a shortage of staff across our business – from drivers and guards to engineers and controllers. These staff shortages have inevitably had a significant impact on our services, leading to short term cancellations.

As a result, we will be introducing a new, consolidated timetable from Monday 17 January 2022. Our focus is on producing a timetable that is deliverable, so that we improve reliability for our customers, and caters for key workers, school pupils and those who cannot work from home. We will be publishing further details on our new timetable as soon as we can in the new year on our website and will send a further email at that time.

From the beginning of January through to the introduction of the new timetable on 17 January, our services will still unfortunately be subject to short notice cancellations or alterations. Please check to see if your planned train is running as close to your time of travel as possible.

We would like to apologise for any inconvenience this situation will cause.

My correspondent writes:
Quote
Not sure how this work with connections at Westbury and Salisbury to London Waterloo. from Bristol Temple Meads Keynsham,  Oldfield Park,  Bath Spa,  Bradford on Avon, Trowbridge, Westbury, Warminster Salisbury line  - connections with First Group, Great Western Railway.
and (short of details) neither am I!



Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Surrey 455 on December 30, 2021, 21:18:41
They've also announced it on Twitter too.

South Western Railway on Twitter (https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1476567297464668164?s=19)
Quote
In light of the impact of the Omicron variant on staff numbers, we are introducing a new timetable on Monday 17 January.

Until then, our services are subject to short term alterations. Please check before your travel.

More information is available here:

Unfortunately that last line links to a page that does not yet seem to show the revised timetables.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Fourbee on January 09, 2022, 10:50:38
Around a week to go and still no detail:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey

The timing of these service reductions feels a bit late anyway if building timetable resilience is the reason for them. My guess is the work from home guidance will be dropped at the end of the month and a reduced service wont encourage passenger numbers to recover.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 09, 2022, 16:10:58
Around a week to go and still no detail:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey

The timing of these service reductions feels a bit late anyway if building timetable resilience is the reason for them. My guess is the work from home guidance will be dropped at the end of the month and a reduced service wont encourage passenger numbers to recover.

Commuter passenger numbers will never recover to anything like what they were. We're in a new world of work now, with a "hybrid" pattern the new normal for most.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Surrey 455 on January 09, 2022, 19:11:09
Around a week to go and still no detail:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey

The timing of these service reductions feels a bit late anyway if building timetable resilience is the reason for them. My guess is the work from home guidance will be dropped at the end of the month and a reduced service wont encourage passenger numbers to recover.

I'm hoping it's not too drastic. The covid cuts in 2020 left me with a replacement bus service for several months.
I have a week off week starting 17 Jan & I will be making several day trips. I will need to examine the new timetable & that of Southern to decide if they are still practical.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Surrey 455 on January 09, 2022, 19:32:32
It's a bit worrying that the Plan My Journey (https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey) page states
Quote
Journey planners are currently up to date, up to and including Sunday 9th January.

So only up to date if you are not planning a journey from tomorrow onwards?



Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: stuving on January 10, 2022, 00:19:13
It's a bit worrying that the Plan My Journey (https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey) page states
Quote
Journey planners are currently up to date, up to and including Sunday 9th January.

So only up to date if you are not planning a journey from tomorrow onwards?

SWR announced the reduced timetable on, I think, 30th December. At that time I think the horizon was 9th January, but with cancellations on the day to be expected. Having a reduced timetable is meant to reduce that, of course, which is why DfT was twisting TOCs arms to come up with one. I get the impression they were resisting, presumably because that would mean assuming a level of staffing, and it just wasn't predictable.

The other problem is that to almost remove on-the-day cancellations, over al the separate staff groups they need, means planning for staff availability of (I'm guessing here) about 70% of the average you expect based on recent experience. For those calling for such a timetable that's a "be careful what you wish for".

I had a look at what National Rail say about about when in the future the OJP is populated with data. It does not make a lot of sense. Under "Advance Tickets and Seat Reservations" it says for SWR:
Quote
Saturday service:
26 February

Sunday service:
27 February

Monday to Friday service:
25 March

Latest time of reservation:
Advance tickets are available up to 23:59 the day before travel.
Notes:

South Western Railway do not offer seat reservations but have quota controlled advance purchase products.

And under "Temporary Timetable Changes, Expected Journey Planner availability":
Quote
Unless listed in the Train Operator details below, these dates are when the journey planner is expected to be showing correctly in the journey planner

Saturday 19 to Friday 25 February

Should be available from Monday 10 January.
[and a week later for each later week of six.]

This is listed under for SWR:
Quote
Saturday:
8 January

Sunday:
9 January

Monday to Friday:
7 January

Notes and exceptions:
Some services on 15 / 16 January and from 12 - 18 February are currently showing incorrectly. You can check your journey here.

I think that (like the Plan My Journey page) says "we've been thinking how to do this but it still defeats us".


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Fourbee on January 10, 2022, 11:54:25
Around a week to go and still no detail:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey

The timing of these service reductions feels a bit late anyway if building timetable resilience is the reason for them. My guess is the work from home guidance will be dropped at the end of the month and a reduced service wont encourage passenger numbers to recover.

Commuter passenger numbers will never recover to anything like what they were. We're in a new world of work now, with a "hybrid" pattern the new normal for most.

Absolutely, I should have put an asterix after recover in as much as I meant recover to what we were at before the latest "work from home if you can" missive came out in December.

I remember LNER doing a 24 weeks in advance trial of advance tickets, under the provisio that if engineering works (remember T-12!!) changed your booked train then various remedies were available.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: bradshaw on January 12, 2022, 12:31:52
Timetables now available. This is the Waterloo Exeter one. Service splits at Salisbury. The Weymouth Waterloo splits at Bournemouth

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/~/media/a503f0ed0c424ddb8549fb1605ed2545.ashx


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: JayMac on January 12, 2022, 14:20:58
Timetables now available. This is the Waterloo Exeter one. Service splits at Salisbury. The Weymouth Waterloo splits at Bournemouth

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/~/media/a503f0ed0c424ddb8549fb1605ed2545.ashx

Back to two hourly west of Salisbury. Not great. I do hope SWR run 6 carriages on these journeys.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Mark A on January 12, 2022, 14:24:48
... twenty minute to a half hour waits at Salisbury [edit: and a couple of longer waits for evening connections] & Warminster's lost its remaining through trains to/from Waterloo.

Mark


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: grahame on January 14, 2022, 08:57:07
Mirror of West of England service at http://www.passenger.chat/170122WoE.pdf

For the Salisbury / Westbury / on to WECA flow:

* SWR have also WITHDRAWN their through services from Westbury and Warminster to Waterloo and the single through train that remained in the other direction. The will now just have a single local service each day (one direction only) calling at Warminster and Westbury

* Although the operator rep and GBR person on the Railfuture Zoom Webinar earlier this week talked of retaining the final service of the day through thick and thin, SWR have with WITHDRAWN their late service from Westbury to Salisbury that was only introduced in December to provide a way home for people in Bristol and Bath to Warminster and Salisbury.

Sadly, I find myself writing rather like the South Hampshire Rail User Group ( (here) (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/4949) )and am disappointed to have been brought to that level by SWR.  I find myself wondering if they have any real interest what so ever in their passengers and potential west from Salisbury.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: grahame on January 14, 2022, 12:51:42
Quote
DATE:   14 January 2021

PRESS STATEMENT from TravelWatch SouthWest CIC

In response to the timetable changes announced by SWR in response to the Omicron Variant

TravelWatch SouthWest, the region's passenger watchdog  is deeply concerned for communities by intolerable service changes: 

Today South Western Railway, the company that operates trains between Exeter, Yeovil, Salisbury, and London, is launching an ‘Emergency’ timetable that provides a poorer service than that operated one hundred years ago.  The company claims that this is necessitated by the emergence of the Omicron variant. 

Passengers’ groups say that the service now offered is accelerating a run-down of the former main line.  The route parallels the A30/303 and M3: it links the south-west with London Waterloo and the south-eastern home counties. It also provides vital commuter services from Dorset and East Devon into Exeter.  Unlike most other services operated by South Western Railway, which are electric, the Exeter-Salisbury line relies on diesel trains, and they are over thirty years-old.
 
Much of the route was reduced to single track in the wake of the Beeching cuts in the 1960’s, since when its infrastructure has become increasingly life expired.  It is notorious for its unreliability due to the shortage of places where train can pass.  A study by the Salisbury to Exeter Rail Users’ Group found that, over the weeks prior to the Salisbury crash on 31st October, barely 50% of trains ran on time and that many were cancelled or turned back short of their destination.

One hundred years ago, in 1922, passengers from Exeter to London Waterloo had the choice of ten through trains each day, with a best journey-time of 3 hours 20 minutes, most with a restaurant car.  From today, passengers will have a choice of just seven trains from Exeter Central during the week, each requiring a change of train at Salisbury with an average wait of 23 minutes.  If the trains are running as advertised, overall journey time to London Waterloo will average three quarters of an hour longer than in 1922 – and they won’t even have a buffet.

Chris Irwin, chair of TravelWatch SouthWest commented: “This is intolerable: the line gives access to vital services, including education, and helps underpin the economy of a swathe of the southwest.  The southwest deserves levelling-up, not running down.  South Western Railway and its sponsors in the Department for Transport must be called to account.”


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: rogerw on January 14, 2022, 14:09:57
You get the feeling that SWR have given up on this line >:(


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: broadgage on January 14, 2022, 14:40:24
Former main line, now a single track branch worked by DMUs, connecting service only, no catering.

The scale of the decline is shocking, fewer and slower services than 100 years ago. And not only no buffet, but also not even a trolley service. Closure by stealth ?


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Timmer on January 14, 2022, 16:51:34
As time goes on, I’m finding the use of the omicron variant as the reason for cutting back train services harder to accept.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: ellendune on January 14, 2022, 17:40:22
As time goes on, I’m finding the use of the omicron variant as the reason for cutting back train services harder to accept.

Around here the peak (we hope) of new cases in the Omicron wave was less than a week ago and is still very high. If you get it you are likely to be off work for 7 to 10 days so the peak in work absence probably hasn't been reached.  Just because the politicians and their press supporter are trying to claim it is all over doesn't mean they are right.

On the basis of the current figures another couple of weeks should start to see things improve.  If the fall in new cases continues and cancellations are still bad in a couple of weeks then you have a right to start being sceptical, but at the moment I think you are being led astray by the political/media coverage.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Timmer on January 14, 2022, 17:43:20
As time goes on, I’m finding the use of the omicron variant as the reason for cutting back train services harder to accept.
at the moment I think you are being led astray by the political/media coverage.
Not at all and never have.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Clan Line on January 14, 2022, 18:12:47
Could I correct you ?

You get the feeling that SWR have given up ...................FULL STOP !!


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: grahame on January 17, 2022, 06:35:04
Commenting / Reading on West of Salisbury? - please follow up on these other threads:

Changes (a.k.a. slashing) to the services west from Salisbury to Exeter from 17th January are so significant that they are now in a separate thread at http://www.passenger.chat/25879

Further changes north of Westbury, such as the withdrawal of 1O58 (the 23:12 Westbury to Salisbury) which was only introduced in December to replace a Bristol service culled at that time by SWR, are covered at http://www.passenger.chat/25378 - though that may be worthy of a separate thread in due course.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Mark A on January 19, 2022, 11:04:30
There's now a bit of heat heading in SWR's direction from the local papers, though it seems to be mainly from the south coast so far. Among other things, people notice the end-of-day train times are contracting.

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19856782.south-western-railway-slammed-railfuture-covid-timetable/


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Mark A on January 21, 2022, 10:38:09
Accurate application of the word 'Break' from SWR spokesperson.

“We have had to take the decision to break some of our longer distance routes, so that staff absence on one of these routes does not have a more significant impact."

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/19854357.change-south-western-railway-timetable-shows-disregard/


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: grahame on January 25, 2022, 15:47:55
"View" from Stewart Palmer, a director of Railfuture and formerly MD of South West Trains.



Can any member(s) easily transcribe what he says into quotable text?


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Fourbee on January 26, 2022, 12:46:15
Can any member(s) easily transcribe what he says into quotable text?

Some mobile phones have the ability to take voice commands to compose text messages, might be a route to getting it into writing.

Interesting that Stewart Palmer began to question the reason that staff absence is behind this and there might be other factors in play. If that is the case and absence isn't the main reason or only partially the reason then this will become weaker and weaker as an excuse to trot out as time rolls on.

I've noticed that some bus companies have quoted staff absence as a reason for reduced timetables, but then it looks like they are scrabbling around for vehicles with route branded vehicles making more of an appearance on other routes and older vehicles being on the road.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: ChrisB on January 26, 2022, 14:03:41
Southeast have already re-introduced a few of their services with a promise of full reinstatement next Monday, so I'm tended towards agreeing with Fourbee


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: stuving on January 28, 2022, 10:11:02
As expected, the timetable for next week has today been "updated" to the same reduced service as this week's. At least I assume it's the same. The relevant "timetables" page does start with a list of re-introductions, but I presume that's all out of date as it's followed by the "January 17 timetable change" announcement.

Of course that bit too contains: "This is not a permanent or long-term timetable. We hope to be able to increase the number of services we provide as soon as we can, once staffing levels allow." Given the news about staff absence levels declining elsewhere (NHS, etc.), would you not expect SWR to say what the current position is? Or at least to go back and read that page to see if it's still true?


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: ChrisB on January 28, 2022, 10:35:28
GWRs email confirming continued changes does refer to ‘several more weeks’ unfortunately of changes


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: stuving on January 28, 2022, 14:14:51
As expected, the timetable for next week has today been "updated" to the same reduced service as this week's. At least I assume it's the same. The relevant "timetables" page does start with a list of re-introductions, but I presume that's all out of date as it's followed by the "January 17 timetable change" announcement.

Well, I was wrong. Those reintroductions (most of them, at least) are from next week, and add back onto the 17th January timetable:
Quote
Having seen an increase in staff availability over recent days, we’re pleased to be able to reintroduce the following key services:
Morning peak

    05:10 London Waterloo to Twickenham via Brentford
    05:35 Hampton Court to London Waterloo
    05:55 Weymouth to London Waterloo
    06:05 Twickenham to London Waterloo via Brentford
    06:50 Farnham to London Waterloo
    06:54 Basingstoke to London Waterloo
    07:15 London Waterloo to London Waterloo via Twickenham and Brentford
    07:30 Shepperton to London Waterloo
    07:30 Dorking to London Waterloo
    Additional calls at Weybridge (07:25) and Walton-on-Thames (07:28) for service into London Waterloo
    08:45 London Waterloo to London Waterloo via Richmond

Evening peak

    16:10 Salisbury to Yeovil Junction
    16:40 Exeter St Davids to London Waterloo
    17:07 London Waterloo to London Waterloo via Brentford and Twickenham
    17:10 Yeovil Junction to Salisbury
    17:20 London Waterloo to Exeter St Davids
    17:41 London Waterloo to Basingstoke service, with calls at Surbiton and Farnborough
    17:43 London Waterloo to Shepperton
    18:45 London Waterloo to London Waterloo via Brentford and Twickenham
    20:42 London Waterloo to Basingstoke

You'd have though they would want to make that clear, and grab whatever credit was on offer, rather than hiding their trumpet under a ... soundproof bushel?


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: PhilWakely on January 28, 2022, 14:50:34
As expected, the timetable for next week has today been "updated" to the same reduced service as this week's. At least I assume it's the same. The relevant "timetables" page does start with a list of re-introductions, but I presume that's all out of date as it's followed by the "January 17 timetable change" announcement.

Well, I was wrong. Those reintroductions (most of them, at least) are from next week, and add back onto the 17th January timetable:
Having seen an increase in staff availability over recent days, we’re pleased to be able to reintroduce the following key services:

Evening peak

    16:50 Exeter St Davids to London Waterloo

Smoke and mirrors. Currently, the stock for 16:50 Exeter St Davids to Salisbury sits at Salisbury for 20 minutes and then forms the 19:21 Salisbury to Waterloo. From next week, the two have been combined. The 'new' service still sits at Salisbury for 20 minutes. The only advantage is that Gillingham to Andover pax don't have to alight at Salisbury before getting back onto the same unit to continue their journey.

 


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: stuving on January 28, 2022, 22:36:07
Southeast have already re-introduced a few of their services with a promise of full reinstatement next Monday, so I'm tended towards agreeing with Fourbee

Agreed - it always seemed odd to me that the introduction date was as late as 17th January (it was 10th for SE). Presumably there will be some element of late start leading to late end, due to building up a deficit of some kinds of leave and not-working work that has to be recovered. But it's hard to see that as being as big as one for one.

In answer to comments on raliforums similar to those here, Clarence Yard posted this (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/swr-further-timetable-reductions-from-17-1.226560/page-10#post-5510525):
Quote
They aren’t running a COVID timetable because of an ACTUAL shortage of train crew. It (and others) were instructed by the DfT to put in a COVID secure timetable by the 17th Jan that would run, even if 10-15% of their staff had COVID. If staff were spare, all the better because it would guarantee the advertised reduced service would actually run. This service was due to run until the end of Feb and then it would revert to the December 2021 TT, if resources allowed it.

The DfT now want to bring that end date forward by a week or two and TOCs are under DfT instruction to manage overcrowding by inserting extra trains, if they can. Most TOCs can’t just switch back to the December 2021 TT at a moments notice, because of rostering, so it will be interesting to see how SWR manage this, with disruptive engineering work, a shortage of trained crew and the 701 saga. 21st February has been quoted on the railway grapevine as the likely date that the DfT currently want SWR to revert.

That is from a GWR insider, not SWR, but should be reliable on the general situation TOCs find themselves in.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: grahame on February 07, 2022, 07:03:12
An update to say "there is no update" on my query to SWR of 17th January, concerning removal of the last train of the day from Westbury to Salisbury, and SWR failing to offer their own trains by default for Exeter St Davids to Waterloo journeys, but (rather) higher priced alternatives using GWR services.

Bradford-on-Avon and Trowbridge to Waterloo / South Eastern destinations
Former users of the SWR services that the ceased to run after 10th December also report booking engines  no longer offering journeys via Salisbury, but rather higher priced ones with multiple changes at Bath, Chippenham, Swindon or Westbury, and at Paddington.   Yes, people "in the know" can usually find a "via" or "avoid" option to select their routing, but xx% of people won't know that, where xx is a not insignificant number.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: Mark A on February 07, 2022, 14:42:39
Is that because the booking engine's optimised to pick the quickest available journey and the connections at Salisbury/Basingstoke/both are so miserable that it avoids them.

It's making me think of journeys after six pm from Waterloo to Bristol via Salisbury. For all but one, the system flags connections via Southampton and can fail to mention that for the past... whenever, that's not been a valid route, though if one's looking to buy a single, there *are* actually advance purchase fares via Southampton, which sort of adds insult to injury.


Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: ChrisB on February 07, 2022, 16:50:11
Yes, that’s correct



Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: stuving on February 07, 2022, 22:37:30
From SWR's timetables page (https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/timetables):
Quote
These temporary timetable changes will remain under review going forward. Journey planners will be updated on a week-by-week basis, with updates taking place towards the end of each week.

I'm not sure if that's new wording, or I just missed it before. Of course we already knew it, and it did happen again last week.




Title: Re: South Western Railways - new timetable from 17th Jan 2022
Post by: grahame on February 11, 2022, 10:46:10
Back to through services from Exeter and Weymouth and (though not explicitly confirmed) the vital last Westbury to Salisbury train from 21st February - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=25879.msg318383#msg318383 (as the two threads are coming together).



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net