Great Western Coffee Shop

From ITV (https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-05/four-hunting-hounds-killed-after-running-onto-railway-track)


Article continues

At the risk of provoking a for/against hunting debate, of which I have no intention!

IF the hunt was obeying the law and trail-hunting, then those who laid the trail must have been extremely irresponsible to lay it anywhere near the railway (or major road for that matter). I guess that the hounds picked up the scent of a live quarry and those in charge of the hunt either couldn't or didn't want to attempt to control the pack. In either case, extremely irresponsible!

Whilst I, in common with at least two members of this forum, am (or would like to think I am) a responsible dog owner and love the four-legged member of our family, I have absolutely no sympathy for those associated with the Blackmore and Sparkford Vale Hunt.

Just as an aside to this, your comments made me wonder whether one of the reasons why railway embankments have become important havens for some wildlife over the decades is because they offered a place to escape hunting dogs. Obviously the habitat they offer, and its general lack of disturbance from humans especially, is the main reason.

It was at one time and certainly still in the 1970/80's, regular practice on at least the BR WR Reading Division daily passenger operations notice to advise staff, principally for the attention of traincrews, of hunting fixtures near the railway to enable a sharp lookout to be kept for hounds that might have followed the scent of a fox onto railway land etc.

The vast proliferation of scavenging foxes in London and other urban areas, has often been said to be due to the overgrown Railway linesides and land, that since the 1960's/70's has provided ideal cover and corridors from the countryside into the Cities.

I very much doubt that hunting with dogs has had any material impact, as so little of the countryside is (or was, before the ban) actually hunted. The lack of human disturbance is certainly the most important factor, combined with the lack of periodic destruction by fire since the disappearance of steam in the 1960s.

At least the hunt supporters can't aggressively ride their quad bikes onto the railway tracks and hold up the trains; unlike what I've seen them do on a busy major road.

100% sympathy for the dogs.

Zero sympathy for those that train them. Just like the animals they continue to illegally hunt they have zero concern for the welfare of the dogs they use for their barbaric pleasure.

Scum. The lot of them.

And idiots. Trespassing on the railway to recover the dead dogs rather than reporting the incident.

Phil, I posted the original report as no more than a newspaper quote because I feared that any more I might add would colour the story with my personal disgust at those people who have set up and propagate the whole wide situation that led to the dogs being on the railway line.

I see no reason why members should not share their own views - be they in line with the ones I have just alluded to, or to explain to members why the activities that led to this accident (and not for the first time, by a long stretch) should be considered acceptable.

Agree. I used to be "neutral" on the issue of fox hunting but I am now opposed.
I USED to believe that despite the animal cruelty concerns , that fox hunting was an important part of rural life and the rural economy and was PERHAPS worth keeping.

I NOW believe that the benefits of fox hunting were greatly exaggerated, it has now been banned for some years with very little impact except on those directly involved. When foxes need controlling in order to protect sheep or for other GOOD REASON I favour shooting them by suitably trained persons. In the absence of good reasons to kill foxes then "live and let live"

I still have mixed feelings about drag hunting. On balance I support a ban, but feel less strongly about this than about the hunting of live animals. Incidents like the one reported are a powerful argument in favour of a ban.

The National Trust have banned, or are about to ban drag hunting on their land, a positive step IMHO. Hopefully other land owners will adopt similar policies.

On a lighter, but related note, I recall a primary school exam intended to test general knowledge/common sense.
One question was

Which of the following is the odd one out ?

Fox hunt.
Hare coursing.
Whist drive.
Grouse shoot.
Stag hunt.

There seems to be an assumption here that it was members of the hunt who allowed the dogs to stray on the line. That may well be the case. I don't know. However I am personally aware of an incident near Erlestoke in Wiltshire some five or six years ago when hunt saboteurs deliberately redirected a pack of hunt dogs onto the main Westbury-Pewsey line.

I don't have a great deal of sympathy with those who hunt living creatures for recreational purposes; but ever after that I have nothing but revulsion for the sick individuals who feel it to be necessary to intentionally put the lives of both animals and the travelling public at risk.

Was it the Grouse Shoot because in those days it was the only one that switched between "illegal" and "legal" in early August each year?

Absolutely.

I've seen "animal loving" hunt saboteurs scattering marbles and ball bearings in an attempt to bring down horses.

Saboteurs & huntsmen (those who continue to break the law as opposed to legal drag hunting) are two cheeks of the same arse.

The Blackmore & Sparkford Vale Hunt would be shouting from the rooftops if there was even the tiniest bit of evidence that Sabs were responsible for the deaths of these dogs.

I too have revulsion for those who endanger the lives of animals and the travelling public. Like the B&SVH failing to control their hounds. Laying deliberately weak trails so that the pack can continue to sniff out foxes. Then blaming the hounds when they do what the hunt have trained them to do. Hunts continue to use captured foxes to train hounds. They continue the barbaric practice of cubbing.

Yes, there are one or two Sabs who go too far in disrupting hunts. But if the hunts weren't acting illegally in the first place there'd be no need for hunt monitoring and disruption to continue.

I find it just a little incredulous that there are these anecdotes of hunt saboteurs acting illegally yet so little evidence and few prosecutions. On the flip side its really easy to find evidence of huntspeople and their supporters acting illegally, and being prosecuted. You'd think that huntspeople would be doing all they can to prove that Sabs are acting illegally.

Oh, and trail hunting and breeding dogs to hunt need banning too.

For those who insist on hunting, alternatives exist  :D

Not certain that direct link to the video is appropriate, but here is a news report https://metro.co.uk/2007/08/13/outrage-at-chav-hunting-videos-26824/ (https://metro.co.uk/2007/08/13/outrage-at-chav-hunting-videos-26824/)

In very poor taste, but it made me laugh I am afraid.

I have just seen on local BBC that the new Police and Crime Commissioner elected last August has asked the chief constable to report to him on how the altercations between the hunt and those who want to protest against it which happened just up the road in Lacock a few days ago.

Simple answer - stop the hunt [from going though - or, better, complete ban]

Except it won't be that simple.  The previous PCC selection (elected last May, but then stood down because of a previous conviction which disqualified him) was a former master of than hunt, and the new PCC comes from the same political pedigree. I bet they don't come up with my simple answer.

I suspect that any inquiry will produce two results.
Firstly that further studies are needed, including many consultations and the conducting of surveys.
Secondly, that more money is needed.

..............not without a full consultation exercise, surely?  ;)

Consider the impact on newts also.
Does hunting disturb and stress the newts, not to mention some being killed under the hooves of the horses.

On the other hand, perhaps hunting actually benefits newts in some way ? Horse dung fertilising plants that shelter  newts  perhaps ? Do horse hoofprints perhaps create micro-environments that newts like.
Is the reported decline in newts in fact due to the hunting ban and nothing to do with railways.

More research is needed.

Then repeat for bats, badgers, whists, great bustards, and the increasingly threatened wild haggis.

Blackmore and Sparkford Vale Hunt at it again this last weekend.

From the North Dorset Hunt Saboteurs:


Scum. The lot of 'em.

I would not consider a hunt saboteur group to be an entirely accurate or impartial source of news about this sort of thing.

If the report is accurate, and I suspect that it is PROBABLY accurate, then I agree that the hunt are scum. I am becoming increasingly opposed to allegedly legal drag hunting.

There are a lot of groups whose habits, views and/or activities I strongly disagree with, but I manage to draw the line at hurling abuse at them on a collective and/or individual basis, especially when based on uncorroborated accounts.

The Deputy Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition recently had to apologise unreservedly for similarly intemperate and unpleasant behaviour, using remarkably similar language to yours.

I thought that one of the rules of this Forum was that discussions should take place in a civil manner - I may have broken that rule (albeit less offensively/vociferously) in the past for which I apologise if I've offended anyone..

As a Moderator, perhaps you should set a better example.

The insulting term used is fairly minor and is in my view acceptable under the circumstances.

I would not consider it acceptable to refer to a named individual as scum, but in my view the term is acceptable if applied to a group or organisation of which one strongly disapproves.

Hmm.

So someone getting fed up with a TOC removing services finally slides into using that language against the company. Do you find that just as acceptable?

I think the original suggestion ought to stand, and that the Moderators should take a joint view. There’s no need for calling anyone (singular or joint) scum in my view.

We should probably take this as a reminder to all of us not to get too emotional about things and move on.

And/Or move threads that disappear off-topic quicker.

Just to be clear, I am against all this too

I stand by my comments.

Such remarks are not to be made routinely, nor without careful consideration, but in this case I agree with you.

And another - a Facebook post (https://www.facebook.com/sonosabs/posts/pfbid02A3U7WzQ73bU3pa74JipzLG256ibAcJoXVhBLHGkaNGBUsNb3qPmRHhjvzcq29vrHl) from yesterday

I refer readers to my sign off on reply #19 above.

And I refer readers to my reply in post #27, which I also stand by.

An interesting feature of the Coffee Shop software is that if you select the option in the settings to see the most recent post at the top, it numbers them all from the the most recent, so the post numbers other posters give are unintelligible.  If only the thread gave the current number of posts in the header.....