Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => London to Swindon and Bristol => Topic started by: grahame on January 15, 2022, 01:37:28 pm



Title: Orange and purple zones
Post by: grahame on January 15, 2022, 01:37:28 pm
I believe these are redundant - but when were they introduced?

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/orangezone.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/purplezone.jpg)

The best I've been able to find:
https://www.trippy.com/vt/England-247-3-3437306/Orange-blue-and-purple-zones.html
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/zone-signs-at-stations.51441/

Pictures - Swindon and Chippenham - hence "London to Bristol" board


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: Timmer on January 15, 2022, 04:14:39 pm
I believe Intercity introduced them in the early 90s. The original GW franchise continued to use the zone system highlighting it in the back of their timetable booklets as to where to find various parts of the train such as First Class, buffet, smoking carriage etc.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 15, 2022, 07:46:09 pm
Weren't there, on some platforms, also blue and gold zones?


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: grahame on January 15, 2022, 08:36:55 pm
Weren't there, on some platforms, also blue and gold zones?

yes, there were.

I've turned up my 1999-2000 National Timetable to see if it said anything in there ... can't see any reference, but here out of interest is the First Great Western page from 22 years ago:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fgw1999.jpg)


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: Ralph Ayres on January 15, 2022, 09:42:22 pm
Odd how they've subsequently reinvented the idea but using numbers painted on the ground rather than signs at high level. One drawback of that is that I can never remember which way the numbering goes so end up walking along the platform to find a second number and invariably find I've gone the wrong way.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: plymothian on January 16, 2022, 11:45:44 am
Odd how they've subsequently reinvented the idea but using numbers painted on the ground rather than signs at high level. One drawback of that is that I can never remember which way the numbering goes so end up walking along the platform to find a second number and invariably find I've gone the wrong way.

Number 1 is at the London end ... if you know which end is the London end.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 16, 2022, 11:51:03 am
I've turned up my 1999-2000 National Timetable to see if it said anything in there ... can't see any reference, but here out of interest is the First Great Western page from 22 years ago:

Just under £6 (in today's prices) to bring an unreserved bike onto the train.  Supposedly not possible now, but happens all the time of course, and for free.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: grahame on January 16, 2022, 12:15:47 pm
Odd how they've subsequently reinvented the idea but using numbers painted on the ground rather than signs at high level. One drawback of that is that I can never remember which way the numbering goes so end up walking along the platform to find a second number and invariably find I've gone the wrong way.

Number 1 is at the London end ... if you know which end is the London end.

Makes sense ... though even I would have trouble working that out at Filton Abbey Wood, Warminster or Deepdene!

I have often wondered why they don't add a direction 'flag' in the corner of the big orange square - so on Zone 5, for example, a small "4" with an arrow (to the left or right) at one corner and a small "6" and arrow at a corner of the other side ...


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 16, 2022, 01:31:24 pm
I suppose numbers painted on the platform are (perhaps) easier to remove when they next change the system...


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 16, 2022, 01:46:23 pm
I've turned up my 1999-2000 National Timetable to see if it said anything in there ... can't see any reference, but here out of interest is the First Great Western page from 22 years ago:

Just under £6 (in today's prices) to bring an unreserved bike onto the train.  Supposedly not possible now, but happens all the time of course, and for free.
Only not possible on the Class 800s (and probably some other services but mostly those). Still possible on "local" services. The types of bikes carried have also changed; it's no longer possible to take a tandem on any GWR service, except perhaps some still operated by HSTs, and maximum dimensions have been introduced for folding bikes (but these AFAIK are not enforced). You won't get six bikes on one train nowadays either, and no racks.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 16, 2022, 01:50:01 pm
But what really strikes me as having changed is smoking.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 16, 2022, 02:18:34 pm
You won't get six bikes on one train nowadays either, and no racks.

Though with the advertised space in a 9-car IET being B and J (big pause when saying the letters please!) there are in fact six spaces 'available'.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: didcotdean on January 16, 2022, 03:29:25 pm
But what really strikes me as having changed is smoking.
Former Carriage Bs smelt of stale smoke for a long time after smoking was banned. The earlier practice of having half of each carriage smoking and the other half non-smoking was in retrospect pretty useless considering how small the mid-carriage partition was.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: JayMac on January 16, 2022, 07:12:11 pm
I'm fairly sure these were around in the mid/late 1980s. I have a foggy memory of them being installed at Taunton when I used to spot there around the age of 14/15. That would be 1987/88.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: plymothian on February 03, 2022, 06:08:18 pm
Odd how they've subsequently reinvented the idea but using numbers painted on the ground rather than signs at high level. One drawback of that is that I can never remember which way the numbering goes so end up walking along the platform to find a second number and invariably find I've gone the wrong way.

Number 1 is at the London end ... if you know which end is the London end.

Makes sense ... though even I would have trouble working that out at Filton Abbey Wood, Warminster or Deepdene!

I have often wondered why they don't add a direction 'flag' in the corner of the big orange square - so on Zone 5, for example, a small "4" with an arrow (to the left or right) at one corner and a small "6" and arrow at a corner of the other side ...

Having now manage to study several different stations, 1 is NOT always at the London end of the platform.  In the grand scheme it should be ... except when it isn't. 
Sample:
Taunton platforms 5/4/3 it is, platform 2 isn't. 
Exeter St Davids is
Dawlish isn't
Highbridge & Burnham isn't
Plymouth is
Newton Abbot is


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: CyclingSid on February 03, 2022, 06:59:49 pm
Divergence warning.

On the theme of colours, I remember in my younger days there used to be a coloured strip along the top carriages indicating first class, second class, buffet, restaurant (that's sticking my neck out). Can anyone remind me of the colours, and were there any types other than I mentioned.

Possibly easier to spot than mark at end doors, especially when split between first and standard.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: rogerw on February 03, 2022, 07:46:05 pm
I think that there were only two distinct colours for the roof line bands. Yellow for first class and red for refreshment vehicles. There was no indication of the nature of refreshments available.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: broadgage on February 03, 2022, 08:40:11 pm
I think that there were only two distinct colours for the roof line bands. Yellow for first class and red for refreshment vehicles. There was no indication of the nature of refreshments available.

That is my recollection.
There was also very limited use of a red line on some older stock to indicate compartments without any gangway or corridor, in order that women nervous of attack could avoid use of these vehicles.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: grahame on February 03, 2022, 09:31:37 pm
In pedant mode - I recall it being yellow and red for sections of vehicles rather that the whole vehicle. Remarkably hard to find a picture - but https://thedieselworks.co.uk/product/lima-buffet-intercity-mark-3-buffet-car-pre-owned-unboxed/ shows it clearly on a model


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: stuving on February 03, 2022, 09:56:28 pm
There's a load more detailed details here  (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/8662-mid-60s-first-class-designation-cant-rail-bandstripe/)from - where else? rmweb. It includes hints, at least, of the idea being first used by GER, including blue for second class, and that it was copied by UIC.


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 07, 2022, 08:47:35 pm
In pedant mode - I recall it being yellow and red for sections of vehicles rather that the whole vehicle. Remarkably hard to find a picture - but https://thedieselworks.co.uk/product/lima-buffet-intercity-mark-3-buffet-car-pre-owned-unboxed/ shows it clearly on a model
I think so too.

I also have a vague feeling that these stripes were at one time used on some other European railways. Maybe in Germany or France?


Title: Re: Orange and purple zones
Post by: stuving on February 07, 2022, 10:23:05 pm
In pedant mode - I recall it being yellow and red for sections of vehicles rather that the whole vehicle. Remarkably hard to find a picture - but https://thedieselworks.co.uk/product/lima-buffet-intercity-mark-3-buffet-car-pre-owned-unboxed/ shows it clearly on a model
I think so too.

I also have a vague feeling that these stripes were at one time used on some other European railways. Maybe in Germany or France?

Here's another page of detailed details from "Blood and Custard" (https://www.bloodandcustard.org/#UICCantrailBanding). This calls the markings applied by BR after the war "UIC cantrail banding". It's not clear whether the UIC standard that existed by then was the real source of this, or whether it was remembered from earlier British use. Maybe a bit of both.



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