Great Western Coffee Shop

As we enter May, is it a case of "all quiet" on the Western front?  Or is there so much happening in the wider world that rail in the west has slipped off the headlines?  Could it be that everything is right in the public transport world and we are left with little to talk about?  Or that we're so exhausted by the same old problems that we don't voice them much any more?  Is rail becoming less relevant - my local good-service station (Bradford on Avon) lost its London service in December, it loses its Brighton service this month, and I heard a rumour that it might lose its Weymouth service too, with Heart of Wessex trains from Weymouth not running north of Westbury. Whatever reason, the Coffee Shop was quieter than normal last month.

Taking a look at wider stories on our news feed, the top stories from yesterday are / were:

Grant Shapps under fire for bizarre videos and ‘zero interest’ in railways - The Guardian,  17:00 Sat, 30 Apr
Royal Mail to run more cross-Border trains in expansion of 192-year-old service - The Scotsman, 05:57 Sat, 30 Apr
Rail meltdown as May bank holiday starts with yet more travel chaos - i News, 17:49 Sat, 30 Apr
Eurostar confirms plans to connect UK to more destinations in Europe - Birmingham Live, 13:46 Sat, 30 Apr
Coal shortages lead to cuts in services on heritage rail line - Dereham Times, 16:11 Sat, 30 Apr
My Leeds to Manchester train was late, loud, shaky and depressing - and just needs one key change - Leeds Live, 06:27 Sat, 30 Apr

None of these was a GWR, SWR, XC or TfW story ...

Here are links to those articles.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/30/grant-shapps-under-fire-for-bizarre-videos-and-zero-interest-in-railways
https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/royal-mail-to-run-more-cross-border-trains-in-expansion-of-192-year-old-service-3675818
https://inews.co.uk/news/rail-meltdown-may-bank-holiday-starts-yet-more-travel-chaos-1604873
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/eurostar-confirms-plans-connect-uk-23831962
https://www.derehamtimes.co.uk/news/mid-norfolk-railway-coal-shortage-repair-work-update-8933200
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/leeds-manchester-train-late-loud-23829196

Putting on a paranoia hat, if the conversations here solely concerned ticketing anomalies I'd suspect that it because the likes of ATOC use the forum as an information source for where their fares system is particularly borked and then make adjustments accordingly. The 'Destinations beyond Waterloo being cheaper than Waterloo itself' is one such that seems to have vanished, a ticket that would have cost me just over £30 last year is now just over £40 and I'll be doing something else that doesn't involve rail.

Travelling across to Stratford on an oystercard and then onward to Chelmsford and back into Liverpool Street last week, two separate ticket office staff were very aware and somewhat mortified that the ticketing system overcharges for journeys commencing at Stratford - one cautioned me against this and advised on the workaround, and the other went out of their way to boost ticket sales from a more minor station that I wouldn't be using but which took around 20% off the price of the ticket.

The lack of information to the public on how Oyster works at the edges is a thing, and it probably plays into the hands of the railway for it to be a thing. Even finding map of the boundary isn't straightforward.

So, yes, the railway always needs to guard against becoming irrelevant and the industry's hands, on this, are increasingly tied.

Thinking of Bradford on Avon with its vanishing train services: it does at least have a new (sheet steel) roof, wondering what sort of job the contractors have made of that.

Mark

On the forum front, *someone* must be thinking whether the much-changed devices landscape demands the big bang approach - i.e. archive the current forum and start anew, bringing the huge gain of a smartphone compatible interface.

Mark

I think you give the forum far more credit than it is due.  But undoubtedly there's a view that "Fare Simplification" can mean removing fares at the lower end of the scale, including taking out franchise-set marketing fares which were good value.  "It's not a fare rise" you'll be told if you enquire.  Memories of the withdrawal of the Westbury to London day returns with travel cards a few years ago, and a leap in price or around 60% that resulted.   I forget if that was before or after South West Trains (Stagecoach) because South Western Railway (First mostly).

The invasion of Ukraine, and great increase in energy prices have to an extent crowded out other news, hence somewhat less talk about railways.

I and some others are very critical of the new trains, but they are now a "done deal" and people have got used to the reduced capacity, and poor facilities, just as they got used to the reduced capacity of cross country services. New trains are shorter, get used to it. Several respected members felt that I was unduly negative regarding them, so I have avoided frequent comments on that subject. The (near) absence of criticism does not imply satisfaction !

I have previously suggested a great simplification of fares and have described in detail how I would achieve this. SOME repetition of the idea is justified when relevant, but not too often, hence limited posts on the subject. The (near) absence of criticism of the present fares system does not imply satisfaction !

The formation of GBR was most interesting news, but little more can be said on that subject until they start actually doing things that can be commented on.

So in general, my view is that there IS less to talk about in relation to GWR and other UK rail services, hence the reduced traffic on this forum.

I suspect that the majority of the general public, rather than the likes of us, won’t “enquire,” they vote with their feet

If the railways wanted to lose trade, this would be by a very good way to go about it

Increasing fares whilst not calling a fares increase a fares increase is hardly likely to increase repeat business. People will see through this newspeak quite easily and the media would have a field day with it, thereby reducing new passenger numbers still further.

Another good way to lose trade is to have frequent short-notice cancellations. There is a thread running at the moment about the south-west bound semi-fasts being chopped due to staff shortages but there is another example far closer to home that affects Graham much more than me. That is the level of cancellations on the Westbury to Swindon service, which has often found an entire crew shift’s worth of trains cancelled. It is starting to amaze me that there are still people using Melksham station at all.

Trains booked as 9 or 10 car running with 5; what passes for a catering service cancelled because nobody can be found who has been trained to wheel a trolley backwards; the list of things that look like they are actually designed to push passenger numbers down is a long one.

Nobody in senior management seems in the slightest inclined to sort out these problems.

There are some on this forum who feel that the government is still as anti-rail as it was in Margaret Thatcher’s time. Personally I don’t believe they are right for a number if practical reasons including facts like building new roads has been seen as impractical for over 30 years, the existing road network struggles to cope with existing road traffic, and that the matter of climate change and pollution are not going to magically go away, and the government knows it. Nevertheless, apparently powerless senior railway management, possibly aided, abetted and/or instructed by the Treasury appear to be doing all they can to make these situations worse

Let’s be honest. If your local Sainsburys treated its customers with as much contempt as the railways are currently doing, the next time your cupboards were getting bare you’d be going to Asda or Morrison or Tesco for the next stock up

Yes, I can confirm that ‘quirk’ in the system has been ironed out  :(

That used to amaze me, too. I have rationalised it noting that journeys by train per resident per annum for Melksham is around 2 per year where it's around 20 per year for all other Wiltshire towns.   For us, the "typical" passenger has a need for the train service rather than having an easy alternative - a hard core of users if you like to call it that. The same core will be there at Chippenham and Trowbridge too, but diluted by that ten to one factor and so not noticed in the sam way if their service was crippled.   What is noticeable at Melksham if you compare April 2019 with April 2022 is that the numbers parking their cars to catch the train has been decimated; three years ago, it was not unusual to see a dozen cars leave the car park just after 6 p.m. when the evening commuter train arrived from Swindon but that traffic has gone and not returned.  There is though, a strong flow of people walking away from the station.


Exactly - you have addressed your own point.  I'm sure there are some in "Senior Management" who - if they were to do what they would be include to do - would soon be "Former Senior Management".

It will all get better when the new trains start to come into service.
It will be better when all the new trains are in service.
It will get better when staff training has been completed.
It will get better reliability modifications have been completed.
The full benifits of the new trains will be realised after the next timetable change.
It will get better when safety checks are complete.
It will get better when the cracks are mended.
We could provide a splendid trolley service, but have suspended this for everyone's safety during the pandemic.
The real problem is not the new trains but covid induced staff shortages.
It will get better after the pandemic.
It will get better a few years after the pandemic as staff are taking leave that was deferred during pandemic.
It will get better after the war.
We now have a plan to mend the cracks in 6 (railway) years, not including 2022.

The repair process is more complex than was expected and may take a little longer than expected.
Everyone is working very hard to complete the work by 2030.
New war disrupts supplies of imported parts and results in delays.
We fully expect to complete the repairs by the early 2030s
New pandemic results in staff shortages, not our fault.
So as to minimise future disruption, we have decided to combine the crack repairs with a mid life improvement program.

Future predictions in italics.

A day on, we have:

How do we fix the railway system in Wales? - The National, Wales, 07:52 Sun, 01 May
Watch: Bridges raised in Manchester as part of Transpennine Route Upgrade - RailAdvent, 09:36 Sun, 01 May
Narrow gauge EMUs enter service - Railway Gazette, 06:16 Sun, 01 May [Switzerland]
How the Merseyrail network looks completely different to 1960s origins - Liverpool Echo, 15:36 Sun, 01 May
Stadler production of Tyne and Wear Metro’s new train fleet achieves new milestone - RailAdvent, 15:32 Sun, 01 May
RMT is planning 'Extinction Rebellion style' strikes that will cause summer travel chaos -  Mail Online, 11:15 Sun, 01 May

And I have bolded the stories that are "in area"

Or blame mother nature!
Cancellations to services between Castle Cary and Weymouth
Due to animals on the railway between Castle Cary and Weymouth all lines are blocked.
Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled or terminated at and started back from Yeovil Pen Mill. Disruption is expected until 12:00 02/05.

Wrong thread - apologies, but seemed fitting placement

Perhaps extinction rebellion and the RMT could form an alliance, so as to avoid needless duplication of disruptive efforts. And also to avoid the RMT and XR disrupting each other.
We cant have XR protesters delayed by train strikes, nor RMT barbecues disrupted by XR protests.

How about RMT strikes only during odd numbered weeks, and XR transport related protests only during even numbered weeks ?

BTW, Mayday is the traditional start of the rioting peaceful protest season, and is also the beginning of the barbecue season.

Now wishing there were snapshots of the fares on that route for say the last 15 years. I will check whether, anytime return aside, they're now close to the equivalent fare via Paddington (though, given the now poor connections at Salisbury, there isn't the train service to support the through route at all). There's certainly the opportunity for the media to highlight instances of 25% and more fare inflation.

Mark

I guess that means BBQs rather than braziers on the picket lines? (especially on Sundays, if that day is included in the picketing week?)  :(

I arrived back into Melksham at 10:00 this morning for Westbury.   Around 15 to 20 off the train arriving in from Swindon at around 25 past nine ... didn't do any on-train counts on way back up, but there were about 10 off at Melksham and perhaps 15 getting on - not bad for a Bank Holiday Monday.  2 short term pick up / drop off cars at Melksham Station, but main car park empty and hub cafe closed.

On wider notes ...

* Quite a number of people off the 08:49 ex Swindon looking to connect onward to Weymouth for the day (?) out. Suspect they were redirected via Southampton though at that point the line as stated as re-opening at midday, with the next train showing as headed just to Yeovil but one an hour later for Weymouth

* 3 car Turbo on the Portsmouth - Cardiff service that picked us up at Southampton at 08:10.  Being a bank holiday, 3 cars was sufficient for that service - about 30% of seats occupied

* Excellent staff service at Westbury - a change of platform of the London train (2 to 3) and station staff came along and checked that everyone waiting on platform 2 knew.

* None stop IET on the South West main line went none-stop (westbound) through platform 1 at Westbury - relief line closed??

 

I haven't travelled on the services of a franchised operator for over two years and the TOCs have not been doing much to achieve that valued commodity "goodwill". Some recent journeys have been made by car whereas I would previously have used rail.

However, I've had cause to buy some tickets today. What a rigmarole... (I will describe on the appropriate thread).

Coming up from the Underground into St Pancras station this morning I was greeted by one heck of a din banging of drums and what I suspect were cowbells. Thought to myself it must be XR or another environmental group only to find it was the RMT!

Perhaps there is some truth in the RMT replicating some of XR’s tactics and ways of protest.

If the RMT and XR are to work together, then I suggest that the RMT accept the following.
Any braziers on picket lines to burn waste wood, NOT COAL.
Barbecues to burn only eco charcoal, complete with multiple green ticks.
RMT officials to walk or cycle when reasonable, and use electric cars otherwise.

XR in turn should accept the following.
That they should assist (passively) at RMT pickets and demos.
XR to understand that trains can be made greener, in some yet to defined way, by having an extra union member on each train.
Not targeting trains, underground or otherwise, if driven by RMT members. (except by prior agreement when the overtime payment will be welcomed)

In terms of the initial question posed in this thread, some of the comments on this forum seem to be getting dafter by the day.  It increasing seems not to be a place for sensible debate.  Part of the reason for less activity?

No wonder several of the members that work in the industry post less frequently or have stopped completely in the last year or two.

There may very well be a grain of truth in that, but "the whole" is complex.   

The last year or two has "gifted" us the challenges of Covid and that has, perhaps, contributed to the lack of meat in discussions and some of the frivolity.  It has also brought a challenging new environment which feels like it has pushed us back from partnership with the rail industry to campaigning. I am personally at my wits end as I try and partner to promote a service which for all three of the last three weekends has failed (on the day) to deliver day trip opportunities from Melksham to Weymouth and in this awful (sorry, it is!) environment rail professionals are pitted against members of the public - not conducive to posting / helping.  Seeing the same thing in social media on buses where drivers are very much at the forefront of anger.

But that brings up a further historic metric too.  We have had, and retain, some wonderfully helpful friends both posting here and helping us understand where to look for emerging news and what it means.  Part of the reason some of these people have chosen their particular job is because they can get on with it, without needing to be an unexpected teacher of the uninitiated (and irrationally angry) ... and sadly a couple of these professional who have posted here have been put off by as little as one other member; understandable yet heartbreaking for the moderator team and a cause for much soul searching and analysis afterwards when it happens. To all professional readers, posters, people who keep us informed - thank you, we value you more than perhaps we say at times.   We continue to be a passenger forum, mind you - and we (as moderators / admins) will always look to help defuse and move on from such incidents, deflecting and explaining ourselves in those very, very rare cases of things blowing.

Adding further - with Covid and it's effects and following decisions "on high", it's all been pressure - and continues to be on rail professionals who (widely) seem to have even less time now for the "softer" activities of passenger and user group interaction, consultation and the like.  There are some excellent elements still around, but there are far less, end there are extra hoops where they are no longer allowed to do something without signoff on high, or even on very high.

I started with "a grain of truth". There are other things too.  The social media explosion of the last 10 years, and the movement on to smart phones, has moved many people on - "we have 'competition' we didn't have a decade ago". The removal of many of the more interesting services and simplifications may have cut the number of things to talk about too.  The aspects of this are on our radar ...

[Stopping there ... headed off to help the police ... mind on other things ... but I am fine / AOK]

It is hard on both sides - but the blame must fall on the DfT. The TOCs aren't being paid to chat/discuss/plan with their passenger partners as there's no monetary gain any more, the TOCs simply being paid a fixed sum to run specified services. So of course their time is expended on different priorities these days. Their hands are very firmly tied by a budget handed don from their paymasters - and if it isn't specified in the budget there's no money in it, how ever much they'd like to help out & see the wisdom in the suggestion. There are pots of money, but very tightly specified and no longer sitting with the TOCs directly - but biddable by them (In a very few cases - Access for All being one) - and bodies like Comminity Rail who have at least 4 other pots for good works in their areas.

Work up a scheme in your local area's community rail region & work with them to bid on your project would seem a way forward, but that isn't likely to include providing additional long-distance services, more likely on stations and local services. Additional, Longer, more strategic services are probably on a hold until GBR can get their teeth into the rail system as a whole. Whether they will deem stakeholder involvement (rather than TOC involvement) a worthy way to sperd time & resource is still unknown.

Unfortunately, the days of partnering with TOCs to improve services has disappeared. A lot more money is required (almost to a point where the vast majority of funds need to be made) to partner with NR & eventually with GBR if improvements are now to be made, IMHO

This RMT/XR debate could get confusing.  XR is the TOC code for TfL Rail/Crossrail/Elizabeth Line!

I'm not entirely sure on the longer distance stuff, Chris, and feel that now is not the time to relax. Whilst we (Bradford on Avon and Trowbridge) lost our London service in December, and lose our Brighton service this month, I note that Middlebrough has gained through services to London, and there may be other examples of loses and gains too.   But certainly the decisions behind these service changes has shifted and is now far less about the business case and far more about the political one.

I do agree that the long-distance operators being run by the DfT do seem to have a tad more freedom in trialling new services - perhaps because they are already controlled directly & without contract.

Careful now, or you will start to sound like me.