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All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: plymothian on June 07, 2022, 17:38:03



Title: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on June 07, 2022, 17:38:03
All RMT members at GWR have been instructed not to book on for any shifts that commence between:

 

•              0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Tuesday 21st  June 2022

•              0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Thursday 23rd  June 2022

•              0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Saturday 25th  June 2022


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 07, 2022, 17:52:53
Bang goes Glastonbury!

On the RMT website (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members-updates/defend-jobs-pay-and-conditions--great-western-railway070622/?preview=true)

Quote
Our Ref: BR2/10/1

7th June 2022

RMT CALLS STRIKE ACTION

Dear Colleague,

DEFEND JOBS, PAY AND CONDITIONS – GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY

Firstly, I would like to congratulate you and your colleagues for achieving this monumental vote for industrial action, which has sent a clear message to the company that we demand job security, a decent and substantial pay reward and for our terms and conditions to be protected.

During the global pandemic the rail industry were keen to promote you and your colleagues as key workers. To use your hard work in their propaganda, and their praise of a continued service, despite the horrific situation that not only the country, but the whole world was experiencing.

You and your colleagues continued to work during the pandemic, ensuring the railways moved to allow key workers, such as yourself to continue working. During this period the railway has continued to make substantial profits, despite the rail industry being at an all time low for passenger numbers and ticket sales. However, now that it is time to reward the people who kept the railway moving and kept the profits coming in for Great Western Railway, management have gone silent and the company no longer has any money to guarantee your jobs security or reward your hard work with a substantial pay increase.

In my previous correspondence I outlined that I would be raising the issue at an industrywide level. I have since been in discussions with the Rail Industry Recovery Group with the aim of creating a framework and structure for negotiations and discussions on all the issues at the heart of this dispute.

However, during these discussions no firm commitments have been obtained from Network Rail or any Train Operating Company on Job Security, nor has any pay proposal been put forward by any company. During discussions on this issue all the companies have indicated that they wish to pursue their full agenda of “workforce reform” and cuts through a transition process.

Considering the lack of tangible progress through these discussions the Union’s National Executive Committee has considered this matter further. The NEC believe that Great Western Railway are not taking the situation seriously and that we must now take industrial action. The NEC has decided to instruct all members of all grades, in all locations, to take 3 periods of 24-hour strike action.

Therefore, ALL Great Western Railway members are instructed to not to book on for any shifts that commence between:

0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Tuesday 21st June 2022
0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Thursday 23rd June 2022
0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Saturday 25th June 2022

I urge you all to stand shoulder to shoulder during the days of industrial action. All members, branches, regions, representatives, and officers are instructed to continue to make active preparations for the industrial action set out and to prepare for effective picketing regimes during this phase of action. Further information will be distributed to members on picketing locations and members should speak with their local representatives or branches.

The company has been advised that, as always, the Union is readily available for meaningful negotiations with the employer on this issue and we urge the company to make tangible and definite proposals at the earliest opportunity.

You and your colleagues deserve better and now we must take a stand to demand better.

HARD WORK DESERVES FAIR PAY
SUPPORT THE ACTION
UNITY IS STRENGTH

Yours sincerely

Michael Lynch
General Secretary


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 07, 2022, 18:31:41
Bang goes even more public sympathy (to be fair, there was very little to lose)



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on June 07, 2022, 18:44:51
Same dates announced for all TOCs in dispute and Network Rail.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 07, 2022, 19:21:36
I don’t think the government have any intention of resolving this dispute and are prepared to let them strike hurting both the rail industry and it’s workers and in the end the cuts will still go through.

The fact that the a great proportion of the workforce are now geared to WFH following Covid means strike action is less effective than it was a few years ago.

I also suspect that the RMT took a look at the events calendar to see what events could be disrupted by strike action.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: nickswift99 on June 07, 2022, 19:52:35
Are you suggesting that Royal Ascot and Henley Regatta were deliberately avoided?  ;)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 07, 2022, 20:51:52
Are you suggesting that Royal Ascot and Henley Regatta were deliberately avoided?  ;)

RMT leadership have likely all got tickets and hospitality arranged for Ascot & Henley, so wouldn't want to risk missing them!

(The dates of Wimbledon have probably been avoided for the same reason!)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on June 07, 2022, 22:01:01
I don’t think the government have any intention of resolving this dispute and are prepared to let them strike hurting both the rail industry and it’s workers and in the end the cuts will still go through.

Johnson needs something to make him popular again.  Crushing the left wing militant rail unions will do just that.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 09, 2022, 13:21:07
From Mark Hopwood at GWR and Mike Gallop at Network Rail

Quote
You may have seen that the RMT (Rail, Maritime and Transport Trade Union) have today announced that they have asked members to take strike action on Tuesday 21 June, Thursday 23 June and Saturday 25 June.   The dates are the same across all Train Operators providing services for the Department for Transport (DfT) and Network Rail, and they coincide with strikes on the London Underground (21 June) as well as Glastonbury Festival in the South West between Wednesday 22 June and Sunday 26 June.
 
We thought it might be helpful to share with you both the Rail Delivery Group release  https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/rmt-urged-to-call-off-strikes-and-stay-at-the-table
and Network Rail’s national release with comments from Andrew Haines, Network Rail Chief Executive https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/talks-continue-in-rail-dispute
 
We are now working on the impacts and GWR will issue a further update next week with more details about train services.   We anticipate most rail services will be affected and we will be advising customers to consider their plans and to check before they travel. Any train services that we do operate are likely to be extremely busy.  Anything you can do to help spread that message would be much appreciated. 
 
While strike days have been announced we are committed to keep talking with Trades Union colleagues to work together for a sustainable railway for our future. We’re doing everything we can to avoid strike action on the railway. There are a few weeks until the first strike is planned. We will use this time to keep talking to our unions and, through compromise and common sense on both sides, we hope to find a solution and avoid the damage that strike action would cause all involved.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 09, 2022, 14:16:06
ASLEF have accepted 5% from Scotrail (They're going to put it to their members this time)

BBC News - ScotRail agrees 5% pay deal with train drivers union
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61737750

From the Union

"The offer on pay has been increased to 5% and we have received improved offers on pay for rest day working, Sunday working allowances, driving instructor allowances, maternity pay and an extension of no compulsory redundancies to five years. There has also been an improved proposal around the non consolidated revenue scheme.”

“The Joint Working Party will also be looking at Sundays being part of the working week subject to negotiations by December 2027 as per the Aslef charter.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: NickB on June 09, 2022, 14:41:50
Will tfl services (Crossrail) be impacted by the strike in the latter part of the week or should those services be running after the 21st?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 09, 2022, 14:50:38
Will tfl services (Crossrail) be impacted by the strike in the latter part of the week or should those services be running after the 21st?

They should be - but whether they'll be impacted by the RMT signallers is another matter....


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 11, 2022, 08:28:48
Interesting view from Tony Lodge yesterday......

Later this month, Britain’s biggest rail union will deliver a hammer blow to the railways’ finances, future growth prospects and probably its own members’ jobs. By announcing three staggered strike days, they have designed the walkout to inflict the maximum possible disruption over the longest possible time to try to force ministers to bow to pay demands. The damage that this will inflict to future passenger confidence, perceived reliability and market share will be huge.

So why are the rail unions leading their members into what could be the most damaging series of national rail strikes for a generation? What is the basis for kicking a sector that remains in intensive care following the pandemic; a decision that can only lead to more people abandoning the train, choosing the car or doing more work from home? There are historic lessons here that every rail worker should heed and consider when reading the next RMT diktat.

The similarities with Arthur Scargill’s disastrous year-long miner’s strike in 1984-5 and the railways today are clear. By the early 1980s the coal industry in Britain was overproducing by almost 20 per cent; its markets were shrinking and a deep recession had further reduced customer demand. As a result, tens of millions of tons of coal were piled up at power stations and pits kept producing coal they couldn’t sell, with huge taxpayer subsidy. Scargill wasn’t interested in helping deliver a viable sector where supply met demand and, instead, argued it was up to ministers to keep loss-making pits going.

The strike ultimately led to the collapse of the coal industry as customers looked at more reliable suppliers and alternative fuels. Between 1985 and 2015, 170 collieries closed and more than 170,000 miners lost their jobs.

The parallel for rail workers is important, as the sector is in its weakest state since the end of the Second World War – especially after Britain’s railways were hit by the pandemic. Boris Johnson’s order to work from home resulted in a 77 per cent drop in rail use which particularly decimated the once highly lucrative five-day peak home counties commuter market. The income from this alone covered a large slice of the railways’ cost base and limited the need for more taxpayer support.

More than £16 billion of taxpayers’ cash has since been spent to keep the network running, despite the numbers commuting at peak times on weekdays standing at just 20 per cent of pre-pandemic levels.

Another £4.5 billion has been handed to Transport for London to keep the Underground running, but the traditional flows of peak-time passengers aren’t returning to the capital and the knock-on is clear. This month’s strike will further hurt TfL’s perilous finances just as it unveils the new £18 billion Elizabeth Line.

The unions are ignoring the existential threat faced by the railways. Hybrid working means passengers have choices that didn’t exist before, and prolonged strikes will inevitably drive more away. But rather than working with planners to try to win passengers back, the unions look hell-bent on fatally undermining future growth, which can only mean fewer trains and jobs.

Rail and coal were once inter-reliant. Train workers should recall what happened to their one-time compatriots whose union prioritised a politically motivated strike over any real ambition to address a radically changing market where customers have new and cheaper choices.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 11, 2022, 09:44:54
ANOTHER comparison with the disastrous miners strike.
I cant see the railways being closed down to the extent that the coal mines were closed. But I do expect some cutbacks, and more calls for automation.
ATO, at least on the underground.
Fewer manned ticket offices.
More use of non union subcontractors for maintenance etc.
A slow down in reopening schemes "whilst we evaluate the impact of the pay award"


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: didcotdean on June 11, 2022, 10:26:59
It may start moving the conversation in areas that railway unions and those working in it would find uncomfortable. For example this letter from independent pensions expert John Ralfe in The Times today:
Quote
In quoting headline pay, unions ignore the annual value of the generous defined benefit pensions — deferred salary — and a huge part of overall pay for rail staff. Not only are rail pensions guaranteed they still have a retirement age of 60 and unlimited annual inflation increases. After a member's own contributions, the annual cost to rail companies — and ultimately taxpayers — is more than 50 per cent of salary. Meanwhile, even the most generous private sector defined contribution pensions have employer contributions of 15 per cent of salary, and most are much lower.

The answer to any pay squeeze for rail staff is simple: reduce the generosity of future pensions by closing the defined benefit scheme and moving to defined contributions, and then use some of the savings to increase pay.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 11, 2022, 18:59:29
Sadly for the travelling public these strikes will only end up with increased fares and less services in the long run.  As for many of the NR staff in Maintenance that are taking strike action they will more than likely end leaving NR and work for many of the contractors who are offering substantially higher salaries than NR and on better terms


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 11, 2022, 19:57:11
It may start moving the conversation in areas that railway unions and those working in it would find uncomfortable. For example this letter from independent pensions expert John Ralfe in The Times today:
Quote
In quoting headline pay, unions ignore the annual value of the generous defined benefit pensions — deferred salary — and a huge part of overall pay for rail staff. Not only are rail pensions guaranteed they still have a retirement age of 60 and unlimited annual inflation increases. After a member's own contributions, the annual cost to rail companies — and ultimately taxpayers — is more than 50 per cent of salary. Meanwhile, even the most generous private sector defined contribution pensions have employer contributions of 15 per cent of salary, and most are much lower.

The answer to any pay squeeze for rail staff is simple: reduce the generosity of future pensions by closing the defined benefit scheme and moving to defined contributions, and then use some of the savings to increase pay.

Seriously?

I genuinely didn't even realise those sort of "gold plated" pensions still existed......certainly not able to be taken at 60!

That's 7 years before retirement age for most others!

I can imagine the reaction of Bruvver Lynch et al though if moves were made to bring these pensions into line with those the rest of us have to look forward to, without the benefit of being financed and the risk borne by the taxpayer.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 11, 2022, 20:44:45
It may start moving the conversation in areas that railway unions and those working in it would find uncomfortable. For example this letter from independent pensions expert John Ralfe in The Times today:
Quote
In quoting headline pay, unions ignore the annual value of the generous defined benefit pensions — deferred salary — and a huge part of overall pay for rail staff. Not only are rail pensions guaranteed they still have a retirement age of 60 and unlimited annual inflation increases. After a member's own contributions, the annual cost to rail companies — and ultimately taxpayers — is more than 50 per cent of salary. Meanwhile, even the most generous private sector defined contribution pensions have employer contributions of 15 per cent of salary, and most are much lower.

The answer to any pay squeeze for rail staff is simple: reduce the generosity of future pensions by closing the defined benefit scheme and moving to defined contributions, and then use some of the savings to increase pay.

Seriously?

The Rail Pension Scheme (RPS) which has its origins from BR Pension Fund still exists, it is currently protected in the 1993 Act "the indefensible right" this was brought about by Robert Maxwell and the fraudulent activates that happened to Mirror Group pension fund that was discovered when he fell off of his Yachet.  Some rail pension scheme benefits are lost if someone moves rail employer, I have moved mine 3 times since 1998.

Of all of the Nationalised industries pension schemes the RPS was the only one that was not "robbed" by the treasury during the privatisation process, the miners, power industry, teaches all had their funds raide; the Unions are concerned that the Government will raid the RPS during the formation of GBR .........................

The RPS is no longer a true final salary scheme, the contribution % by the employee are quite high but it's matched by the employer.

I genuinely didn't even realise those sort of "gold plated" pensions still existed......certainly not able to be taken at 60!

That's 7 years before retirement age for most others!

I can imagine the reaction of Bruvver Lynch et al though if moves were made to bring these pensions into line with those the rest of us have to look forward to, without the benefit of being financed and the risk borne by the taxpayer.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on June 11, 2022, 21:34:04
I genuinely didn't even realise those sort of "gold plated" pensions still existed......certainly not able to be taken at 60!

That's 7 years before retirement age for most others!

I can imagine the reaction of Bruvver Lynch et al though if moves were made to bring these pensions into line with those the rest of us have to look forward to, without the benefit of being financed and the risk borne by the taxpayer.

Such 'gold plated' pensions were not just public sector.  Once upon a time many private sector employers offered such pensions.  They were encouraged by government to make up for the fact that the UK had and still has one of the lowest state pension payments anywhere in Europe.


When UK governments started to look at surpluses in pension funds in the 1980's they decided these were a tax dodge so Norman Lamont introduced new rules which meant that employers with what government saw as excessive surpluses were required to either improve benefits or take contribution holidays.  Twenty years on and investment returns were not as good employers started to have problems and needed to put more money it to fund deficits.  Much blame was placed on Gordon Brown as chancellor, but the damage was done much earlier.

As a trustee of one such fund that took a contribution holiday were were advised that were it not for that government interference that forced us to take a contribution holiday the fund would not have the massive deficit. 

In a different fund where I am a member the private company could not support the deficit and I am left with a much reduced pension because it has gone into the pension protection fund. 

So government failed to fund pensions then sabotaged the system that made up for this. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 11, 2022, 21:41:54
What happens to union members who were due to start work at say 20-00 on the evening before a strike day.
Are they expected to turn up as usual and walk out at midnight ?
Or not to turn up at all.

Likewise, what about those due to start work at say 22-00 on a strike day ? Delay starting work until midnight ?

Or to take the extreme case, what about a worker booked for an 8 hour shift, of which 7.5 hours fall into the 24 hour strike period, and 30 minutes into the following or preceeding non strike day.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 11, 2022, 22:00:46
I genuinely didn't even realise those sort of "gold plated" pensions still existed......certainly not able to be taken at 60!

That's 7 years before retirement age for most others!

I can imagine the reaction of Bruvver Lynch et al though if moves were made to bring these pensions into line with those the rest of us have to look forward to, without the benefit of being financed and the risk borne by the taxpayer.

Such 'gold plated' pensions were not just public sector.  Once upon a time many private sector employers offered such pensions.  They were encouraged by government to make up for the fact that the UK had and still has one of the lowest state pension payments anywhere in Europe.


When UK governments started to look at surpluses in pension funds in the 1980's they decided these were a tax dodge so Norman Lamont introduced new rules which meant that employers with what government saw as excessive surpluses were required to either improve benefits or take contribution holidays.  Twenty years on and investment returns were not as good employers started to have problems and needed to put more money it to fund deficits.  Much blame was placed on Gordon Brown as chancellor, but the damage was done much earlier.

As a trustee of one such fund that took a contribution holiday were were advised that were it not for that government interference that forced us to take a contribution holiday the fund would not have the massive deficit. 

In a different fund where I am a member the private company could not support the deficit and I am left with a much reduced pension because it has gone into the pension protection fund. 

So government failed to fund pensions then sabotaged the system that made up for this. 

Without wishing to go too far off topic, I think you'll find it was Nigel Lawson, not Norman Lamont but yes certainly Brown landed a killer blow......this explains it rather well.......

https://theconversation.com/britains-great-pension-robbery-why-the-defined-benefits-gold-standard-is-a-luxury-of-the-past-100844


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: trainbuff on June 12, 2022, 00:38:14
It may start moving the conversation in areas that railway unions and those working in it would find uncomfortable. For example this letter from independent pensions expert John Ralfe in The Times today:
Quote
In quoting headline pay, unions ignore the annual value of the generous defined benefit pensions — deferred salary — and a huge part of overall pay for rail staff. Not only are rail pensions guaranteed they still have a retirement age of 60 and unlimited annual inflation increases. After a member's own contributions, the annual cost to rail companies — and ultimately taxpayers — is more than 50 per cent of salary. Meanwhile, even the most generous private sector defined contribution pensions have employer contributions of 15 per cent of salary, and most are much lower.

The answer to any pay squeeze for rail staff is simple: reduce the generosity of future pensions by closing the defined benefit scheme and moving to defined contributions, and then use some of the savings to increase pay.

Seriously?

I genuinely didn't even realise those sort of "gold plated" pensions still existed......certainly not able to be taken at 60!

That's 7 years before retirement age for most others!

I can imagine the reaction of Bruvver Lynch et al though if moves were made to bring these pensions into line with those the rest of us have to look forward to, without the benefit of being financed and the risk borne by the taxpayer.

For non BR staff it is currently 62. Bear in mind the shift pattern that workers do. Wrecks the body. Many have blood pressure and type 2 diabetes. How does a body cope with finishing late, at say 1am on a Sunday morning, having a 'day off' and booking on at 3am on the Monday morning? Not all the time but does happen, more frequently then it should. Imagine doing that for 40+ years.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: trainbuff on June 12, 2022, 00:40:31
What happens to union members who were due to start work at say 20-00 on the evening before a strike day.
Are they expected to turn up as usual and walk out at midnight ?
Or not to turn up at all.

Likewise, what about those due to start work at say 22-00 on a strike day ? Delay starting work until midnight ?

Or to take the extreme case, what about a worker booked for an 8 hour shift, of which 7.5 hours fall into the 24 hour strike period, and 30 minutes into the following or preceeding non strike day.

They are still expected to work their shift


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 12, 2022, 00:59:40
What happens to union members who were due to start work at say 20-00 on the evening before a strike day.
Are they expected to turn up as usual and walk out at midnight ?
Or not to turn up at all.

Likewise, what about those due to start work at say 22-00 on a strike day ? Delay starting work until midnight ?

Or to take the extreme case, what about a worker booked for an 8 hour shift, of which 7.5 hours fall into the 24 hour strike period, and 30 minutes into the following or preceeding non strike day.

For a 20:00 start the day before, they book on as normal and should be available to complete their shift. As the original post states you are only ‘instructed’ by the RMT to not book on for shifts commencing 00:01-23:59 on strike days.

So for a 22:00 book on on a strike day they would not book on and therefore not be available for the whole shift.

Those basic principles also apply for the ‘extreme example’ you gave.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 12, 2022, 01:39:44
Thanks for the info in the previous two posts.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 12, 2022, 03:13:33

For non BR staff it is currently 62. Bear in mind the shift pattern that workers do. Wrecks the body. Many have blood pressure and type 2 diabetes. How does a body cope with finishing late, at say 1am on a Sunday morning, having a 'day off' and booking on at 3am on the Monday morning? Not all the time but does happen, more frequently then it should. Imagine doing that for 40+ years.

I have long felt that the present shift pattern for railway work is a powerful disincentive to recruitment and retention of staff, and it does indeed have health consequences.

A far better policy in my view would be largely fixed working hours. Some of these hours would be anti social, but in my view fixed anti social shifts are preferable to continual changes.
Regularly starting work at say 03-00 and working until say 11-00 would in my view be preferable to the present arrangements. Overtime working by mutual agreement could consist of EITHER working 6 such shifts in a week rather than 5 shifts, or alternatively starting at say 01-00 instead of at 03-00.

I know of someone who left the railway and now works in a power station. The PERMANENT night shifts rather than an endlessly changing shift pattern was the main reason for the change.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Henry on June 12, 2022, 06:26:52

For non BR staff it is currently 62. Bear in mind the shift pattern that workers do. Wrecks the body. Many have blood pressure and type 2 diabetes. How does a body cope with finishing late, at say 1am on a Sunday morning, having a 'day off' and booking on at 3am on the Monday morning? Not all the time but does happen, more frequently then it should. Imagine doing that for 40+ years.

I have long felt that the present shift pattern for railway work is a powerful disincentive to recruitment and retention of staff, and it does indeed have health consequences.

A far better policy in my view would be largely fixed working hours. Some of these hours would be anti social, but in my view fixed anti social shifts are preferable to continual changes.
Regularly starting work at say 03-00 and working until say 11-00 would in my view be preferable to the present arrangements. Overtime working by mutual agreement could consist of EITHER working 6 such shifts in a week rather than 5 shifts, or alternatively starting at say 01-00 instead of at 03-00.

I know of someone who left the railway and now works in a power station. The PERMANENT night shifts rather than an endlessly changing shift pattern was the main reason for the change.
I seem to remember as a Conductor employed by BR, we did work such shifts. Then their was a dispute over a flexible rostering agreement, if I remember correctly.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GWR 158 on June 12, 2022, 07:24:59
Do GWR provide rail replacment buses on strike days?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 12, 2022, 07:35:04
Do GWR provide rail replacment buses on strike days?

From GWR website:
www.gwr.com/strike

Quote
We are not able to provide bus replacement services.

A useful page with lots of information and answers to questions which I’m sure will be continually updated as and when GWR have further information.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 12, 2022, 07:43:56
Do GWR provide rail replacment buses on strike days?

There are not enough busses or drivers to cover the service, and the TOC's are not obliged to provide a replacement as it is something outside of their control and they will have given sufficient notice to their customers.

If they did attempt to provide a bus service the TOC would get slated in the media for long queues, slow and late running services best to just for them to point the finger of blame on the Unions


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on June 12, 2022, 19:23:46
GWR have announced on their website that the Night Riviera sleeper service is cancelled for the whole week between 20th and 24th June.  However they will run on Sunday 19th into the 20th.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: onthecushions on June 12, 2022, 19:42:48
Gordon Brown's £5Bn/year pension fund raid at the start of New Labour, when capitalised at 4%, was equivalent to the c£130Bn hole in the pension funds. It would have been better to tax the pensions paid out from the investments' returns rather than reduce the invested capital.

IIRC many private pensions pre-2000 were based on 1/60ths over 30 years, often non-contributory. Public sector pensions were based on 1/80ths over 40 years, with 6% employee's contribution, employers paying 12%. As most public sector workers had far less than 40 years service, average pensions were often not large. The gold plating was therefore not very thick, relatively.

The fallacy in the Unions' claim is that inflation will blip, over the next year, falling away after. As an example gas wholesale prices peaked about 550p/therm and have now fallen back to c150p/therm. Once the other markets have settled, similar reductions will follow.

I do sympathise with those many industrious skilled members of the railway industry who have put up with much abuse since privatisation but they will weaken their position and industry by disruption.

OTC


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 12, 2022, 20:21:46
GWR have announced on their website that the Night Riviera sleeper service is cancelled for the whole week between 20th and 24th June.  However they will run on Sunday 19th into the 20th.

In todays Observer article (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/12/rail-strikes-glastonbury-travel-trouble-small-shows-fear-devastating-impact?utm_term=62a58ef52383437e3015ebbe764553e2&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email), this paragraph about GWR & Glastonbury

Quote
Rail strikes spell travel trouble for Glastonbury – and small events fear ‘catastrophe’

.....GWR, the train company serving Castle Cary, the station closest to Glastonbury, has said it hopes to maintain timetabled trains from London Paddington throughout the festival. But it said other parts of its network were likely to be “more affected” by the strike action and that customers “may need to consider alternative ways to travel to a station serving Castle Cary”.....

So it seems available resources may be being concentrated on the PAD - Castle Cary service over other services.

The fallacy in the Unions' claim is that inflation will blip, over the next year, falling away after. As an example gas wholesale prices peaked about 550p/therm and have now fallen back to c150p/therm. Once the other markets have settled, similar reductions will follow.

Totally agree - a one-off bonus for the year to counter this inflationary 'blip' would make a more sensible ask than an 11.1% pay hike that increases wages from here on, regardless of how inflation falls over the next years


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 13, 2022, 05:13:08
So it seems available resources may be being concentrated on the PAD - Castle Cary service over other services.

Standard practice isn't it?  I recall Paddington to Cheltenham Spa services being reduced to a Swindon - Cheltenham Spa shuttle, and the Paddington to Cardiff being culled, leaving an hourly Paddington so Swansea service to pick up displaced passengers in previous "normal" years.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: froome on June 13, 2022, 06:31:45
What will happen with Bristol to Weymouth services, which also serve Castle Cary? They always have huge demand from Glastonbury users as well, and if Paddington to the West Country services are reduced, there will be additional pressure from other passengers wanting to transfer onto them instead and then change at Castle Cary.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 13, 2022, 06:58:49
What will happen with Bristol to Weymouth services, which also serve Castle Cary? They always have huge demand from Glastonbury users as well, and if Paddington to the West Country services are reduced, there will be additional pressure from other passengers wanting to transfer onto them instead and then change at Castle Cary.

I think it's safe to say that any trains that do run within striking distance of Glastonbury will be packed beyond belief and certainly beyond safety.

I wonder if there will be the usual boarding control at Paddington? Will there be any staff available to supervise it? What happens at Reading?

This sort of uncertainty and chaos of course is exactly what the RMT are counting on - hence the choice of dates.

For the sake of safety, it may be worth GWR simply saying that people shouldn't count on any trains running to Castle Cary and that they should make other arrangements.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 13, 2022, 07:19:22
Glastonbury already has a massive traffic problem during festival week. Without trains running to bring festival goers it would be even worse. I’m sure we will learn this week what GWR’s plans are. They’ve known for a while strikes were coming and would likely affect Glastonbury week.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 13, 2022, 07:36:36
Glastonbury already has a massive traffic problem during festival week. Without trains running to bring festival goers it would be even worse. I’m sure we will learn this week what GWR’s plans are. They’ve known for a while strikes were coming and would likely affect Glastonbury week.

That will make interesting reading, especially as (presumably?) much of it will be beyond GWR's control?

If enough of (for example) the signallers strike, could any sort of meaningful service run?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 13, 2022, 08:45:58
What will happen with Bristol to Weymouth services, which also serve Castle Cary? They always have huge demand from Glastonbury users as well, and if Paddington to the West Country services are reduced, there will be additional pressure from other passengers wanting to transfer onto them instead and then change at Castle Cary.

I think it's safe to say that any trains that do run within striking distance of Glastonbury will be packed beyond belief and certainly beyond safety.

I wonder if there will be the usual boarding control at Paddington? Will there be any staff available to supervise it? What happens at Reading?

This sort of uncertainty and chaos of course is exactly what the RMT are counting on - hence the choice of dates.

For the sake of safety, it may be worth GWR simply saying that people shouldn't count on any trains running to Castle Cary and that they should make other arrangements.

Boarding controls at Paddington or elsewhere is the sort of thing for which non union agency staff COULD be used in future. Not for THIS strike presumably, but in future perhaps.
The work is more like crowd control at say a major sporting fixture, than "railway work"


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 13, 2022, 09:33:57
I’m fairly sure temporary agency staff are routinely used for such things every year.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 13, 2022, 10:22:01
Interesting figures quoted by the Telegraph via MSN online (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/rail-workers-inundate-voluntary-redundancy-scheme-despite-strikes-over-job-cuts/ar-AAYnudI?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=befb15978b7a4a918bd8892c34860353)

Quote
Rail workers inundate voluntary redundancy scheme – despite strikes over job cuts

A voluntary redundancy scheme for rail workers has been inundated with more than 5,000 applications, casting doubt over union bosses’ reasons for launching the most aggressive strike action in a generation.

Rail managers invited requests for voluntary redundancy last autumn as part of efforts to reduce the burden on taxpayers caused by the pandemic.

Figures seen by The Telegraph show that train operators received 2,949 applications to quit. A further 2,159 applied for the scheme at Network Rail, the state-backed owner of tracks and stations.

Though the number of voluntary redundancies sought by managers is closely guarded, it is understood that applications outstripped places by roughly two to one at Network Rail.

Meanwhile, train operators confirmed that “we had more people express an interest in the scheme than we were initially able to accept”.

Union chiefs insisted voluntary redundancy programmes had only been offered to management grade personnel at Network Rail.

Nevertheless, the number of applications, released under freedom of information laws, calls into question claims by “militant” trade union chiefs that rail leaders are imposing unwanted job cuts to reduce costs.

The figures also suggest that the organisation leading the dispute - the Rail, Maritime and Transport workers union (RMT) - is now facing an existential crisis as members scramble to quit Britain's rail sector.

Andrew Haines, chief executive of Network Rail said: “We know there is huge latent demand within Network Rail for people to leave and move on - it’s mainly an age profile thing - and it could be unlocked by the trades unions.

“Without flexibility from them, we won't be able to make the savings that will permit us to open a voluntary severance scheme for their members. We hope they'll settle down to some meaningful negotiations that could make any suggestion of compulsory redundancies, null and void.”

Between 40,000 and 50,000 RMT members will walkout on June 21, 23 and 25, disrupting Glastonbury Festival, the Headingley test match, and  those making their way to Armed Forces Day celebrations on June 25.

Strike action by Network Rail signal workers – the first such action in more than three decades – will cripple the train network and bring services to a near-standstill. 

The industrial action will cost the Exchequer £100m in loss fare revenue and deliver an estimated £450m hit to the UK economy.

Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary said this weekend that agency staff may be used to break “Marxist” union strikes - but will not prevent significant disruption later this month.

Strike action on the railways intensified last week as train drivers union Aslef also launched strikes in June and July on Hull Trains, Greater Anglia and the Croydon Tramline.

A third union, the TSSA, is balloting for a walkout that could cripple the network completely in July as Birmingham prepares to host the Commonwealth Games.

Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, is under orders from the Treasury to reduce the burden of running the railways on taxpayers after more than £16bn was spent keeping services running during the pandemic.

A spokesman for the Department for Transport said: “The industry is looking at several ways of making the railway sustainable for the long term – staffing costs is just one area of this.

“We once again want to urge the unions to come to talks with the rail industry so we can work together to build a better, more modern, passenger-focused, railway.”

A spokesman for the Rail Delivery Group, which represents train operators: “The rail industry launched a voluntary exit scheme, the first of its kind, last year, in recognition that some colleagues wanted to use the skills and expertise they have built in our industry elsewhere.

“We had more people express an interest in the scheme than we were initially able to accept.”

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "The only voluntary severance programme so far has been among managers and the total job losses among them up to this point has been over 2,500.

“There has been no voluntary severance exercise among RMT members.

“RMT is continuing dialogue with Network Rail on their ideas for cost savings but we remain opposed to job cuts, we will defend our conditions and we want a pay rise."


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on June 14, 2022, 11:19:42
Whilst having my hair cut this morning, my barber(ess) said one of her clients is a GWR driver, and they've accepted a pay rise, so won't be on strike, but.
Trains won't have a conductor/guard or catering body on, just the driver; station dispatch being done by station staff and the driver.
I would have thought that 'down west' trains couldn't leave without a second body on board, and drivers would refuse to take a train out without one?
She also said trains wouldn't be cleaned, but drivers have been asked to sign on earlier and do a basic pick up litter run before commencing their duties. 
I would have thought that too would have been refused?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 14, 2022, 11:27:12
Utter nonsense.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 14, 2022, 11:30:59
It certainly sounds rather improbable.
Esp the bit about litter picking ! That is easily done by a minimum wage, non union, agency worker rather than by increasing the expensive hours worked by a driver.

One person operation sounds almost as unlikely.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 14, 2022, 12:02:28
Now the TSSA is balloting at Network Rail stations in the capital - first action slated for July 25 if positive vote gained. Paddington included - would mean no IETs beyond Reading & probably Slough for stoppers?

From My London, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/london-rail-strikes-euston-victoria-and-london-bridge-stations-among-those-targeted-with-fresh-ballot-that-could-see-industrial-action-all-summer/ar-AAYrez8?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=8f38e357ec574ffc8cfb08537c6bd56e)

Quote
Rail workers union TSSA has announced that its members will vote on strike action to take place towards the end of July affecting most major London rail stations including London Bridge, Charing Cross and Euston. On Tuesday (June 14) the union said members would be balloted on action that could see services at London's biggest termini, including Kings Cross, Liverpool Street, Paddington, Victoria and Waterloo, severely disrupted all summer.

The dispute is over pay and conditions as the union claims its members working at Network Rail, the public body which looks after railway infrastructure in England, have not had a pay increase for at least two years. It is also calling for a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies.

This industrial action, which would see over 6,000 staff across the country walk out, would take place from July 25 at the earliest, exactly one month after larger action by the RMT, which will see 50,000 staff walk out over three days across the railway network in England, including a co-ordinated Tube strike on June 21. Should the TSSA members vote to strike, it would mean disruption for rail travel in the capital for the entire summer, as this vote can allow the union to prolong the industrial action if the dispute over pay and conditions is not resolved after the initial strike.

In London, this action would affect nearly all National Rail services because the majority of them start and terminate at the termini stations where staff would walk out. Even if the government's proposed legislation is approved to allow agency staff to replace the staff on the picket lines, disruption would still continue because agency staff would be unable to fill the highly technical roles which are critical to running the railway, such as signalling, operations control and heavy maintenance.

TSSA General Secretary Manuel Cortes said: "We could be seeing a summer of discontent across our railways if Network Rail don't see sense and come to the table to face the concerns of their staff. Network Rail staff are asking for basic fair treatment: not to be sacked from their jobs; a fair pay rise in the face of a cost-of-living crisis; and no race to the bottom on terms and conditions. Fat cat bosses have so far refused these completely reasonable requests, leaving us with no option other than to ballot for industrial action, something which is always a last resort."

The TSSA union is also in dispute with three rail operators which operate in and out of London: Avanti West Coast, East Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway, which means strikes could also take place on these services too.

The ballot (vote on whether to strike) opens on June 20 and closes on July 11, with strike action taking place as soon as July 25 if a 'yes' vote wins. Some Network Rail office staff who are TSSA members at Blackfriars, Stratford and Waterloo are also being balloted.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 14, 2022, 13:52:31
And the BBCs (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61795673) take on this new threat...

Quote
Thousands more railway workers will vote on whether to go on strikes which threaten travel chaos this summer.

The Transport Salaried Staffs Association (TSSA) plans to ballot more than 6,000 staff at Network Rail (NR).

It is part of a dispute over pay, conditions and job security. Other rail unions will strike next week in what is the biggest walkout in three decades.

A Department for Transport spokesman said strikes should be a last resort and urged TSSA to reconsider.

Network Rail said: "Now is not for time for the TSSA to be jumping on the RMT strike bandwagon."

Members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union at NR and 13 train operators will go on strike for three days from 21 June.

The RMT and Unite are also holding a one-day strike on the London Underground on the same day as the first rail strike, in a separate row over jobs and pay.

Travel misery

Train strikes, cancelled flights and record-breaking petrol prices have thrown getaway plans into disarray and threaten a summer of travel misery.

The TSSA has previously announced strike ballots among its members at four rail companies - Avanti West Coast, CrossCountry, East Midlands and West Midlands Trains.

Meanwhile, members of the drivers union Aslef are also striking later this month at Hull Trains, Greater Anglia and Croydon Tramlink.

TSSA members at NR work in operational, control, management and safety critical roles on rail services across Britain.

They are being asked to cast two votes - one on strike action and another on action short of a strike. The ballot opens on 20 June and closes on 11 July.

In the event of a yes vote, strike action could be held from 25 July.

'Summer of discontent'

The TSSA is demanding a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies for 2022, no unagreed changes to terms and conditions, and a pay increase which reflects the rising cost of living.

It said NR staff last had a pay rise between two and three years ago, although it varies between grades, and also worked throughout the coronavirus pandemic as key workers.

TSSA general secretary Manuel Cortes said: "We could be seeing a summer of discontent across our railways if Network Rail don't see sense and come to the table to face the concerns of their staff."

He added Network Rail only responded to the union's requests for pay talks, made before Christmas, when it moved the issue to dispute in April.

'No-strings pay offer'

But a spokesman for Network Rail said positive pay talks were in full swing with a 'no-strings' pay offer of 2.5% on the table with the potential for more if targets were hit.

A Department for Transport spokesman said it was "hugely disappointing and premature that the TSSA is balloting for industrial action when talks have only just begun".

He added: "Train travel for millions more people is now a choice, not a necessity. Strikes stop our customers choosing rail, and they might never return.

He urged the TSSA to reconsider and go to industry talks in a bid to find a solution for workers, passengers and taxpayers.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on June 14, 2022, 18:12:46
I am sorry but I nearly fell off my perch when I read this

Quote
But a spokesman for Network Rail said positive pay talks were in full swing with a 'no-strings' pay offer of 2.5% on the table with the potential for more if targets were hit.

Inflation at least 10% offer 2.5%!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ray951 on June 15, 2022, 11:23:34
Maps now available of where trains will run on strike day and the day's in between
https://www.gwr.com/strike (https://www.gwr.com/strike)

I doesn't look to me like timetables, at least those linked to from that page, have been updated yet.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 15, 2022, 11:52:49
Hmmm....that page does tell you that they haven't, and when they will be available!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 15, 2022, 12:59:46
Update from GWR ... I am dashing between meetings and will come back and fill this in further / move post if necessary

Quote
We promised to update you further on the impact of the RMT strike action, and you may well have seen the national update at 1030 this morning by Network Rail and the Rail Delivery Group.
 
Network Rail has been working hard to cover signal boxes to keep as many routes open as possible on the strike days (Tuesday 21 June, Thursday 23 June and Saturday 25 June). 
 
This is not possible in all areas and there are some routes where rail services will not operate, in other areas a limited service will run, but will start later and finish much earlier.   There will also be a reduced service on the days between and after the strike, Wednesday 22 June, Friday 24 June and Sunday 26 June. 
 
Our dedicated web page www.gwr.com/strike now has an overview of the timetable for each region and clear maps showing where services are operational.  This is a dedicated web page which we will keep updated throughout the week.   In addition, Network Rail are now entering timetable changes into the national timetable database, and detailed changes to weekday services will be available in online journey planners from Friday 17 June, and for weekend services from Saturday 18 June.
 
We are recommending that even where services are possible customers should only travel if absolutely necessary, services will be busy, and there will not be any replacement road transport.   It is also important to note that there could be further changes, even on the day, particularly if cover cannot be maintained for signal boxes, where routes will need to stop operating.
 
We understand the impact that these changes will have on customer journeys, and we know it will mean making alternative plans for many.  We will therefore be doing all we can to alert customers to the changes, so they have time to plan. Any help you can give us with that would be very gratefully received.
 
Please signpost anyone to the webpage for more information -  www.gwr.com/strike - and do email us if you need any clarification, have any questions or any queries.
 
This is going to be a very difficult week for our customers, we will do all we can to help, but the impact will be significant.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ray951 on June 15, 2022, 13:01:32
Hmmm....that page does tell you that they haven't, and when they will be available!
So what I said was correct  ;) of course you are correct as well  ;)

Of course I could say it is poor design, and it probably is, but it was also user error (I didn't scroll down to bottom of the page).
A rhetorical question, but why provide a link to timetables if the timetables aren't available?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 15, 2022, 13:26:22
Where’s the link to specifically timetables? There’s that page you did link fo that gives the overall view, but nowhere does ot say it’s specifically timetables. Indeed, the accomoanying blurb only mentions that timetables *wil be* (i.e. not yet) uploaded to journeyplanners. Then that link tells you when each days timetable will be available.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 15, 2022, 13:47:33
Other TOCs have published actual timetables to view but GWR never does that, and hasn't for a very long time, instead directing everyone to journeyplanner.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on June 15, 2022, 15:34:06
Network Rail have produced this map (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Map-showing-open-lines-during-strike-days-June-2022.jpg) showing the lines they will be able to open, presumably using the few non-striking staff capable of working as signallers.
(https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Map-showing-open-lines-during-strike-days-June-2022.jpg)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 15, 2022, 15:55:16
From The Telegraph (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/don-t-travel-by-train-on-strike-days-commuters-urged/ar-AAYsPJX?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=05bca5fd286940c988dd6823663d7d7f) via MSN

Quote
Commuters will be told not to travel by train next week as the entire network is set to be crippled by the largest strike in more than 30 years.

In a major announcement on Wednesday, train operating companies are expected to urge people to avoid all travel on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday as services will be drastically reduced.

Network Rail is set to lay out a new schedule, with services cut by 80 per cent, and to announce that all journeys will have to be completed by 6.30pm.

Southeastern, one of Britain’s biggest rail operators, has already written to passengers asking them to avoid travelling on strike days because most of its routes and stations will be closed, while c2c rail will advise passengers to “only travel if necessary”.

Bosses at South Western Railway were still having “live conversations” about their plans on Tuesday night, but will most likely ask passengers to avoid travelling. Other operators are expected to make similar announcements.

It will force schools and hospitals to urgently assess how they can continue to operate, with the risk of a return to online lessons and the cancellation of non-emergency medical appointments.

Industry sources said on Tuesday night that train companies were coming under substantial pressure from ministers to avoid putting out “do not travel” notices because Grant Shapps, the transport minister, “doesn’t want to give in to the unions”.

They are being urged to keep services running wherever possible. However, sources said: “We will have to tell them not to travel because if we have people turning up as normal to stations expecting to get on a train we will have a major problem.”

‘Completely unsafe to run any trains during strike’

Union sources said that the entire network would have to be shut down during the strike for safety reasons. They described suggestions of even a 20 per cent service as “optimistic” and said that it was “completely unsafe to run any trains” because of the sheer number of safety critical staff going on strike. 

It comes as thousands more railway workers are to be balloted for strikes which could hit in July.

The Transport Salaried Staffs Association (TSSA) has served notice to ballot more than 6,000 staff at Network Rail in a dispute over pay, conditions and job security. In the event of a yes vote, strike action could be held from July 25.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 15, 2022, 16:06:58
And now The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61808898)

Quote
Passengers have been advised not to travel on trains unless necessary during strikes next week, with only a fifth of services due to run.

Network Rail said about half of all rail lines will be closed when thousands of workers walk out across Britain on 21, 23 and 25 June.

The services that run will start and finish earlier, from 07:30 to 18:30.

There will be no trains at all in many places including north from Glasgow or Edinburgh and to Penzance in Cornwall.

Network Rail, which owns and maintains the country's railways, said there would also be no passenger services to locations including Bournemouth in Dorset, Swansea in south Wales, Holyhead in north Wales, Chester in Cheshire and Blackpool in Lancashire.

Open lines include the West Coast Main Line from London to Scotland via locations such as Birmingham and Manchester.

However, with trains running for shorter hours on strike days, final departures will be much earlier than usual. For example, the last train from Manchester to London will leave at 14:47 and the last from Norwich to London at 16:00, with the last train from London to Edinburgh at 15:00.

Rural and district lines will be most affected by the action.

The timetable from 20 June to 26 June is still being finalised, but the number of services is expected to be around 4,500 compared with 20,000 normally, Network Rail said.

Disruption is also expected to carry over into non-strike days during the week, when only about 60% of services are expected to run.

This is due to not enough staff being on shift overnight to get services ready for the following day.

Several train operators including Southeastern, TransPennine and Avanti West Coast have urged passengers to only travel by rail if necessary, while Northern has asked people "not to travel" on trains between Tuesday and Sunday.

Several large events could be affected by the strikes, ranging from Glastonbury Festival, which runs from 22 to 26 June, to a cricket Test match between England and New Zealand taking place from 23 to 27 June.

Pensioner Linda is supposed to be travelling by train from Great Yarmouth to London for a Rolling Stones concert on 25 June.

She paid £100 per ticket, and there are four people due to go. However, she is not sure if there is any way for her to get there now.

"If I was to book a coach, it would cost a lot more - plus increase the travel time; two-and-a-half hours on the train becomes five to six hours on a coach," she told the BBC. "And there's no way we'd get to the concert in time."

She is still hoping she will be able to travel - the train company issued her a notification that an emergency timetable would be released on Friday.

More than 40,000 RMT union members from Network Rail and 13 train firms plan to walk out. The industrial action, which has been described as the "biggest rail strike in modern history", involves union members which include railway staff such as guards and signalling operators.

RMT announced the strike action last week after talks over pay and redundancies fell through.

On the first day of the planned strike on 21 June, London Underground RMT workers plan to walk out in a separate dispute over pensions and job losses.

Andrew Haines, Network Rail chief executive, said talks with the union had "not progressed as far as I had hoped" and so preparations had begun for a strike.

He called the action "needless" and said it would have a "damaging impact".

"Make no mistake, the level of service we will be able to offer will be significantly compromised and passengers need to take that into account and to plan ahead and only travel if it's really necessary to do so," he said.

The strikes may be less disruptive for commuters, with more people now able to work from home since the pandemic.

But the Rail Delivery Group, which represents train operators, said "millions of people", including those who cannot work remotely, students sitting exams and others travelling for summer events, would still be affected.
_____________________________________________________

Analysis by Katy Austin

The mood music right now is that not enough progress has been made in negotiations to stop next week's walkouts.

Assuming they go ahead, there will be disruption across the whole week.

The involvement of Network Rail signalling staff means the number of trains that can run is particularly limited.

On strike days, the signallers' replacements can only cover 12 hours, hence services will start late and finish early - where they run at all.

Busy, key routes have been prioritised, meaning vast swathes of the country will be left with no services at all.

Network Rail says next week's action will cost up to £150m in lost revenue and aborted work.
_______________________________________________________________________

The RMT union has claimed Network Rail plans to cut up to 2,500 jobs as part of a £2bn reduction in spending, with the proposed job cuts including workers who maintain tracks, signals and overhead lines.

It also said train operators had been subject to pay freezes and changes to their terms and conditions.

On Tuesday, RMT called for a meeting with the transport secretary and chancellor, saying it had become clear that the Treasury was "calling the shots and not allowing rail employers to reach a negotiated settlement".

But a deal is "unlikely at the moment", said RMT's Eddie Dempsey, who accused the government of "relishing the thought of having a dispute to distract from some other issues".

Downing Street has previously branded the action selfish and said the union's move was "thoroughly irresponsible".

The rail industry is under pressure to save money due to the financial impact of the coronavirus pandemic and Network Rail has said it wants to modernise working practices.

It estimated between 1,500 and 2,000 fewer staff would be needed, but insists this could be achieved through voluntary means.

As part of a separate strike, Aslef, a union representing train drivers, has announced walkouts at three companies in rows over pay on 26 June at Hull Trains, at Greater Anglia on 23 June, and on Croydon Tramlink on 28, 29 June and 13 and 14 July.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 15, 2022, 18:06:48
Network Rail have produced this map (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Map-showing-open-lines-during-strike-days-June-2022.jpg) showing the lines they will be able to open, presumably using the few non-striking staff capable of working as signallers.

I have mirrored the map at
http://www.wellho.net/pix/Map-showing-open-lines-during-strike-days-June-2022.jpg
in case Network Rail take it down at some point in the future


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 15, 2022, 18:12:45
Various TOCs that do in-house servicing, rather than contracting out will obviously also have maintenance issues across the strike days, meaning stock unable to be used on the shoulder, non-strike days too as safety checks, refuelling of diesel units etc won't have been done - so are only offering service on shoulder days the same as strike days.

WMR & Chiltern at least two TOCs affected in this way. I'm unsure about GWR.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 16, 2022, 06:30:04

I know of someone who left the railway and now works in a power station. The PERMANENT night shifts rather than an endlessly changing shift pattern was the main reason for the change.

A bit more detail re this particular case.
The man in question USED to work at Hither Green railway depot, south east London. Various positions but all maintenance related and all requiring ever changing shift patterns.

They NOW work at the Isle of Grain power station, on permanent night shifts. The wages are a bit less but this is considered a price worth paying for stability.
They do not speak well of the railway as an employer, despite attractive sounding wages. At the power station they feel a "valued and useful member of the team" Whereas on the railway they felt that "management were always trying trying to catch you out in the hope of starting a disciplinary case"

They also state that co-workers at the power station are in general happier at work than railway staff were.

One particular difference is in uniform/overalls/workwear. On the railway they were required to wear "multiple layers of thick, hot, heavy polyester" and that the detailed requirements kept changing.
At the power station, simple overalls are provided and worn and LAUNDERED BY THE EMPLOYER.

They recently suffered a minor industrial accident, the enquiry into which was brief and simple and not a blame game.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 16, 2022, 06:33:16
Network Rail have produced this map showing the lines they will be able to open, presumably using the few non-striking staff capable of working as signallers.

Also, a reliance on managers who hold relevant competencies for Signalling, Electrical Control Rooms and in a limited way dealing with critical faults. these managers can only be rostered 37 hours in a week (basically 3 12 shifts) unless the individual agrees to longer, however there is a reluctance to grant time off in lieu or pay for additional shifts  

This cover could come to an end if the TSSA ballot call for industrial action.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on June 16, 2022, 11:05:33
If you look at the map you will see the TransWilts line is show as open on strike days but Melksham Station as closed.   That is because IETs will be used to run the service and they still can't stop there.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: oxviem on June 16, 2022, 11:08:45
Given that GWR are saying "check journey planners" is there any way to determine when the journey planners are showing the proposed emergency timetable?

I'm not sure if I'm seeing the "real" one for the 21st and it's quite confusing.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on June 16, 2022, 11:21:20
Given that GWR are saying "check journey planners" is there any way to determine when the journey planners are showing the proposed emergency timetable?

I'm not sure if I'm seeing the "real" one for the 21st and it's quite confusing.

GWR's site now has a page of more detailed plans (https://www.gwr.com/strike), including the dates for publishing the timetables to journey planners.

Strike/non-day    Date                          Publication
Non-strike day    Monday 20 June       Thursday 16 June
 Strike day         Tuesday 21 June      Thursday 16 June
 Non-strike day    Wednesday 22 June   Friday 17 June
 Strike day         Thursday 23 June       Thursday 16 June
 Non-strike day     Friday 24 June          Friday 17 June
 Strike day          Saturday 25 June      Tuesday 21 June
 Non-strike day     Sunday 26 June      Tuesday 21 June


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 16, 2022, 11:21:49
Given that GWR are saying "check journey planners" is there any way to determine when the journey planners are showing the proposed emergency timetable?

I'm not sure if I'm seeing the "real" one for the 21st and it's quite confusing.
I'm using RTT to see when services have been updated and so far this is still to happen. Every other TOC has posted actual revised timetables on their websites but as usual not GWR!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 16, 2022, 11:47:25
If you look at the map you will see the TransWilts line is show as open on strike days but Melksham Station as closed.   That is because IETs will be used to run the service and they still can't stop there.

Great!   Can we do a "Dilton Marsh" and stick our hand out to stop the train, please??   Only 25,000 people in our hamlet!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: oxviem on June 16, 2022, 14:50:39

GWR's site now has a page of more detailed plans (https://www.gwr.com/strike), including the dates for publishing the timetables to journey planners.

Strike/non-day    Date                          Publication
Non-strike day    Monday 20 June       Thursday 16 June
 Strike day         Tuesday 21 June      Thursday 16 June

Agreed but when on the 16th - I look now and I'm still not convinced it's the emergency timetable so to the less informed they may make judgements based on this information. Sorry I sound exasperated and I do accept the challenges in providing the information but in my mind wrong information (ie what is currently in journey planners) is worse than none.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 16, 2022, 19:03:58
Agreed but when on the 16th - I look now and I'm still not convinced it's the emergency timetable so to the less informed they may make judgements based on this information. Sorry I sound exasperated and I do accept the challenges in providing the information but in my mind wrong information (ie what is currently in journey planners) is worse than none.
Now put back until the 17th. Quite why GWR is taking longer than other TOCs to issue revised timetables I don’t know.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 17, 2022, 06:51:53
GWR Revised strike day timetables for the 21st and 23rd are now available to view in the Journey planner/train timetable viewer of your choice.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2022, 10:09:36
.........is anyone planning on rolling the dice and trying to travel by train next week?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on June 17, 2022, 10:18:40
As always with these things there are winners and losers.   If the scheduled timetable runs as planned there are more through trains to the West of England from Swindon than usual.  As it happens I will already be in Cornwall so it won't benefit me!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 17, 2022, 10:57:47
As always with these things there are winners and losers.   If the scheduled timetable runs as planned there are more through trains to the West of England from Swindon than usual.  As it happens I will already be in Cornwall so it won't benefit me!

The good news is that there will be more trains through Melksham than usual.  The bad news is than none of them will be stopping ... and to add icing to that cake (or insult to injury), there is no rail replacement bus service and no arrangement for train tickets to be accepted on service buses either.

Sometimes the feeling is "tails you loose, heads you don't win".   When SWR took off the services from Bradford-on-Avon to Waterloo, they gave the excuse that there was little commuter or school traffic on them (mostly leisure and personal/business use).    Now GWR are canning our trains - much used by commuters and with school traffic on them too in favour of leisure trains for such things as Glastonbury, and longer distance traffic which is predominantly personal business use.   Why can't First companies be consistent??


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: hoover50 on June 17, 2022, 13:09:19
GWR Revised strike day timetables for the 21st and 23rd are now available to view in the Journey planner/train timetable viewer of your choice.

Does anyone know where I can find PDFs of the strike day timetables?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2022, 13:27:11
As always with these things there are winners and losers.   If the scheduled timetable runs as planned there are more through trains to the West of England from Swindon than usual.  As it happens I will already be in Cornwall so it won't benefit me!

The good news is that there will be more trains through Melksham than usual.  The bad news is than none of them will be stopping ... and to add icing to that cake (or insult to injury), there is no rail replacement bus service and no arrangement for train tickets to be accepted on service buses either.

Sometimes the feeling is "tails you loose, heads you don't win".   When SWR took off the services from Bradford-on-Avon to Waterloo, they gave the excuse that there was little commuter or school traffic on them (mostly leisure and personal/business use).    Now GWR are canning our trains - much used by commuters and with school traffic on them too in favour of leisure trains for such things as Glastonbury, and longer distance traffic which is predominantly personal business use.   Why can't First companies be consistent??

These are exceptional circumstances Graham, people are being advised not to travel and if memory serves special arrangements have always been made for events such as Glastonbury - it is of course an unfortunate coincidence (I'm sure!) that the RMT have decided to strike in the coming week when there are so many events taking place which traditionally stretch the railway to the limit - perhaps you could enquire of Mr Lynch and his colleagues as to why this week was chosen? (any explanation other than to cause the maximum possible disruption and inconvenience would be enlightening!)

Whilst some commuters will no doubt be adversely affected, the large number now able to work from home in addition to those who already work a hybrid pattern since the pandemic will greatly mitigate that impact.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on June 17, 2022, 13:28:06
Why can't First companies be consistent??

Why does the RMT have to strike forcing these decisions?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Mark A on June 17, 2022, 13:31:08
Possibly. To Swindon on the first train from Bath Spa at 7:43ish and back in the evening, lots of trains back via Swindon on Wednesday evening for some reason.

*Looks at events calendar in Somerset*

*Colour drains from face*

Mark


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 17, 2022, 13:45:17
GWR Revised strike day timetables for the 21st and 23rd are now available to view in the Journey planner/train timetable viewer of your choice.

Does anyone know where I can find PDFs of the strike day timetables?
Sadly GWR don’t believe in producing timetables at times of disruption, engineering work or industrial action and haven’t done so for many years despite at one time being one of the best TOCs for doing so. We are always told to consult journey planners for times of trains.

Every TOC website that I’ve visited that’s affected by next week’s strike action have published revised timetables. Why can’t GWR?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: the void on June 17, 2022, 14:22:36
GWR Revised strike day timetables for the 21st and 23rd are now available to view in the Journey planner/train timetable viewer of your choice.

Does anyone know where I can find PDFs of the strike day timetables?
Sadly GWR don’t believe in producing timetables at times of disruption, engineering work or industrial action and haven’t done so for many years despite at one time being one of the best TOCs for doing so. We are always told to consult journey planners for times of trains.

Every TOC website that I’ve visited that’s affected by next week’s strike action have published revised timetables. Why can’t GWR?

TOCs can plan what services they would like to run next week, but none of them can actually guarantee they will be able to deliver the revised timetable. If no signalers turn up, there won't be any services running! So what is the point of publishing a revised timetable that may ultimately be completely inaccurate. Is it not better to wait until the day and see what happens? The advice across the whole industry is to avoid travelling if possible.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 17, 2022, 15:21:07
These are exceptional circumstances Graham, ....

I understand that.  Just as we have had "exceptional circumstances" nearly every year since the published timetable increased in December 2013.  If it's not Box Tunnel closed, it's staff shortage. And if it's not a reduced Covid timetable it's the Berks and Hants closed. Or perhaps it's the signal cables were cut or the staff going on strike or Westbury station being shut so they can relay it.  All of those rather longer than just a day or two. 

I sometimes feel that an "exceptional circumstance" would a summer with running all day throughout.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 17, 2022, 15:34:11
These are exceptional circumstances Graham, ....

I understand that.  Just as we have had "exceptional circumstances" nearly every year since the published timetable increased in December 2013.  If it's not Box Tunnel closed, it's staff shortage. And if it's not a reduced Covid timetable it's the Berks and Hants closed. Or perhaps it's the signal cables were cut or the staff going on strike or Westbury station being shut so they can relay it.  All of those rather longer than just a day or two. 

I sometimes feel that an "exceptional circumstance" would be a summer with running all day throughout.

Not forgetting the apparently surprising need to train staff on the new trains, or the need for extra staff on a 10 car IET, Easter arriving without warning, or new trains getting drowned at Dawlish, and of course seasonal weather which no one could have foreseen.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 17, 2022, 16:32:07
These are exceptional circumstances Graham, ....

I understand that.  Just as we have had "exceptional circumstances" nearly every year since the published timetable increased in December 2013.  If it's not Box Tunnel closed, it's staff shortage. And if it's not a reduced Covid timetable it's the Berks and Hants closed. Or perhaps it's the signal cables were cut or the staff going on strike or Westbury station being shut so they can relay it.  All of those rather longer than just a day or two. 

I sometimes feel that an "exceptional circumstance" would be a summer with running all day throughout.

Not forgetting the apparently surprising need to train staff on the new trains, or the need for extra staff on a 10 car IET, Easter arriving without warning, or new trains getting drowned at Dawlish, and of course seasonal weather which no one could have foreseen.

Not forgotten, but I'm being specific about Melksham Station's service.  We've had a couple of HSTs call, but never an IET even though they run through often enough.   I WILL half-give you the weather one, with GWR not running any trains for multiple days when the bad weather meant they could run trains, even long after other lines had re-opened - but a winter not a summer issue.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2022, 09:01:05
Well, that's it then - Gentlemen (and ladies) of the railway, load your weapons, and take aim at your feet.............

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/rail-and-tube-strikes-will-go-ahead-next-week/?fbclid=IwAR0EXNC4oMsH1rP31ljdA1CSJDYXQbohcieDafup6wxTk8YRhvO4igGDGkk


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on June 18, 2022, 09:30:30
RMT's statement  (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-statement/)today reads:
Quote
In the past few weeks, discussions have been taking place at senior level with Network Rail, Train Operators and London Underground.

Despite the best efforts of our negotiators no viable settlements to the disputes have been created.

It has to be re-stated that the source of these disputes is the decision by the Tory Government to cut £4bn of funding from our transport systems - £2bn from national rail and £2bn from Transport for London.

As a result of this transport austerity imposed by the Government, the employing companies have taken decisions to:

    Savage the Railway Pension Scheme and the TFL scheme, cutting benefits, making staff work longer, and poorer in retirement, while paying increased contributions.
    Thousands of job cuts across the rail networks.
    Attacking terms, conditions and working practices in a form of internal fire and re-hire.
    Cutting real pay for most of our members through lengthy pay freezes and below RPI inflation pay proposals.

In the face of this massive attack on our people the RMT cannot be passive.

So today, having heard the reports on the discussions that have been taking place we are confirming that the strike action scheduled to take place on 21st, 23rd and 25th June will go ahead.

We want a transport system that operates for the benefit of the people, for the needs of society and our environment – not for private profit.

We call on our members to stand firm, support the action, mount the pickets and demonstrate their willingness to fight for workplace justice.

Every worker in Britain deserves a pay rise that reflects the cost-of-living crises. All working people should have the benefit of good negotiated terms, conditions, working practices and occupational pensions that will ensure their living standards in retirement.

We call on the entire labour movement and the working people to rally to the support of the RMT and our members in this struggle.

The RMT will support every group of workers who organise and fight for these aims and we call for joint campaigning and coordinated action to achieve a better deal for workers and a fairer society.

RMT remains available for discussions that will settle this dispute and ensure our transport system can operate without disruption.

Or, as summarised on the site of the International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI):
Quote
UK: RMT officials offer surrender to Tories on eve of national rail strikes, as Corbyn and McDonnell give their blessing
Chris Marsden
15 hours ago

Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) General Secretary Mick Lynch appealed for direct talks with the Conservative government June 15, in a begging letter to Transport Secretary Grant Shapps. Had Shapps accepted, there is no doubt that next week’s planned strikes would have been called off as the RMT negotiated a rotten betrayal...



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2022, 10:30:08
RMT's statement  (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-statement/)today reads:
Quote
Or, as summarised on the site of the International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI):
Quote
UK: RMT officials offer surrender to Tories on eve of national rail strikes, as Corbyn and McDonnell give their blessing
Chris Marsden
15 hours ago

Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) General Secretary Mick Lynch appealed for direct talks with the Conservative government June 15, in a begging letter to Transport Secretary Grant Shapps. Had Shapps accepted, there is no doubt that next week’s planned strikes would have been called off as the RMT negotiated a rotten betrayal...



That's classic, brilliant! I can almost hear the Internationale playing in the background!

(Typing must be tricky whilst singing it and raising one hand in a clenched fist!)  :D


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on June 18, 2022, 14:20:58

Paul Waugh iNews is reporting that the reasons the negotiations broke down is because the train companies have been instructed by DfT not to properly negotiate. 

https://inews.co.uk/news/train-strike-chaos-continue-ministers-rail-firms-rmt-1693370 (https://inews.co.uk/news/train-strike-chaos-continue-ministers-rail-firms-rmt-1693370)

In other words this strike is not caused by RMT, but by Grant Shapps. Judging by the rhetoric presumably so that they can blame it on the Labour Party to make it sound like a Corbyn and McDonald still run the party.  They are trying to re-run the battles of the 1960's and 70's.  Obviously coincidental that there are two byelections this week. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2022, 16:10:45

Paul Waugh iNews is reporting that the reasons the negotiations broke down is because the train companies have been instructed by DfT not to properly negotiate. 

https://inews.co.uk/news/train-strike-chaos-continue-ministers-rail-firms-rmt-1693370 (https://inews.co.uk/news/train-strike-chaos-continue-ministers-rail-firms-rmt-1693370)

In other words this strike is not caused by RMT, but by Grant Shapps. Judging by the rhetoric presumably so that they can blame it on the Labour Party to make it sound like a Corbyn and McDonald still run the party.  They are trying to re-run the battles of the 1960's and 70's.  Obviously coincidental that there are two byelections this week. 

The article is behind a paywall but it's all he said/she said now, hard to know who to believe.

I suspect the chance to have two by-elections in the same week as the strike along with Glastonbury, the Headingley Test match and GCSE & A Level exams to disrupt was too good an opportunity for the RMT to miss and another reason why they chose these dates.

I think the Tories will struggle to pin it on Labour given the Opposition Leadership's at best ambiguous attitude towards the RMT's actions, I am sure they will try but let's face it, Lynch etc and Starmer are hardly fellow travellers, in any sense next week!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 18, 2022, 16:28:13

Paul Waugh iNews is reporting that the reasons the negotiations broke down is because the train companies have been instructed by DfT not to properly negotiate. 

https://inews.co.uk/news/train-strike-chaos-continue-ministers-rail-firms-rmt-1693370 (https://inews.co.uk/news/train-strike-chaos-continue-ministers-rail-firms-rmt-1693370)

In other words this strike is not caused by RMT, but by Grant Shapps. Judging by the rhetoric presumably so that they can blame it on the Labour Party to make it sound like a Corbyn and McDonald still run the party.  They are trying to re-run the battles of the 1960's and 70's.  Obviously coincidental that there are two byelections this week. 

The article is behind a paywall but it's all he said/she said now, hard to know who to believe.

I suspect the chance to have two by-elections in the same week as the strike along with Glastonbury, the Headingley Test match and GCSE & A Level exams to disrupt was too good an opportunity for the RMT to miss and another reason why they chose these dates.

I think the Tories will struggle to pin it on Labour given the Opposition Leadership's at best ambiguous attitude towards the RMT's actions, I am sure they will try but let's face it, Lynch etc and Starmer are hardly fellow travellers, in any sense next week!

It does not matter which week is chosen, there will always be events happening. At the end of June is Wimbledon and Henley for example.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Robin Summerhill on June 18, 2022, 17:43:53


It does not matter which week is chosen, there will always be events happening. At the end of June is Wimbledon and Henley for example.

Quite. And indeed the Tories could actually get political mileage out of an "evil unions" stance at the by-elections


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Henry on June 18, 2022, 19:05:00

  I notice ASLEF have also voted for Industrial Action, which seems to be
  totally ignored by the media. Which, unlike the RMT, does involve a majority of
  train driver's. So who is going to drive the trains ?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on June 18, 2022, 19:18:39

  I notice ASLEF have also voted for Industrial Action, which seems to be
  totally ignored by the media. Which, unlike the RMT, does involve a majority of
  train driver's. So who is going to drive the trains ?

ASLEF are voting TOC by TOC, and so far results and resulting strike dates have only been announced for Greater Anglia and Hull trains. This was last Thursday's statement (https://aslef.org.uk/publications/britains-train-drivers-union-announces-strike-action):
Quote
ASLEF, the train drivers’ trade union, today [Thursday] announced strike action over pay:

[/i] Drivers at Greater Anglia will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 Thursday 23 June 2022.

[ii] Drivers at Hull Trains will strike between 00:01 and 23:59 on Sunday 26 June.

[iii] And tram drivers in south London will strike for a fair pay deal from 00:01 on Tuesday 28 June until 23:59 on Wednesday 29 June and from 00:01 on Wednesday 13 July until 23:59 on Thursday 14 July.

Finn Brennan, ASLEF’s organiser on the Underground, said: ‘More than six months after the end of our last pay settlement and with the RPI rate of inflation running at over 11%, there has still been no offer from the company to resolve this dispute. Every day our members are seeing the price of their necessities, from fuel to food go up, while the real value of wages has fallen dramatically. Tram drivers, like other workers in public transport do a difficult and demanding job with round the clock shifts seven days a week. They deserve fair pay and are determined to fight for it.’

He added: ‘ASLEF members on Croydon Tramlink returned an incredible 99.2% Yes vote to strike on a turnout of over 86 %. It is a result that any union would be proud of and demonstrates just how strongly our members feel about managements failure to make an acceptable pay offer. The ball is now in management’s court. They can either make a fair offer or face the prospect of hard hitting and drawn-out strike action. I hope they will choose the sensible option our members are ready and prepared to act if they do not.’

Mick Whelan, general secretary of ASLEF, the train drivers’ union, says that figures published this week by the DfT that reveal that passenger numbers on Britain’s railways are nearly back to normal – back to pre-pandemic levels – underlines why there is no need for rail workers to be asked, effectively, to take a pay cut.

Mick said: ‘The latest Department for Transport statistics show that passenger numbers reached the milestone of 90% of pre-covid levels on Thursday 19 May – and went up to 92% over the next three days. That’s great news – not just for the railways, but for Britain.

‘But this blows the argument that “there is no money” right out of the water. There is, now the railway is returning to normal, because passengers are back and services are packed again.

‘Many of our members have not had a pay rise since 2019. We will fight to maintain the pay, terms & conditions, and the pensions of our members. We are not naïve. The train companies are doing very well out of Britain’s railways – with handsome profits, dividends for shareholders, and big salaries for managers – and we are not going to work longer, for less. We want a pay rise, for train drivers, who kept people and goods moving during the pandemic, in line with the cost of living, so that we are not, in real terms, worse off.’

 
Note to editors:

ASLEF has called ballots for industrial action over pay at Arriva Rail London; Chiltern; Croydon Tramlink; Greater Anglia; Great Western; Hull Trains; LNER; Northern Trains; ScotRail; Southeastern; TransPennine Express; and West Midlands Trains.

We have successfully concluded pay deals with DB Cargo; Eurostar; Freightliner Heavy Haul; Freightliner Intermodal; GB Railfreight; Merseyrail; MTR Elizabeth line; and PRE Metro Operations.

And we also have multi-year deals with other companies, which were previously agreed, already in place.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Henry on June 18, 2022, 20:28:37

 Yes, sorry stand corrected.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on June 18, 2022, 22:34:00
I think the Tories will struggle to pin it on Labour given the Opposition Leadership's at best ambiguous attitude towards the RMT's actions, I am sure they will try but let's face it, Lynch etc and Starmer are hardly fellow travellers, in any sense next week!

You may be right, but they are certainly trying. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on June 18, 2022, 22:40:27
For completeness, these are the timescales of TSSA's relevant ballots. Other railway employers (https://www.tssa.org.uk/find-your-company?letter=N) can be found via the TSSA website:

Quote
TSSA has served notice to ballot almost five hundred workers at Great Western Railway (GWR) for strike action and action short of strike in a dispute over pay, conditions and job security.

The union is demanding a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies for 2022, no unagreed changes to terms and conditions, and a pay increase which reflects the rising cost of living.

Ballots open: 24 June 2022
Ballots close: 12 July 2022
The earliest that industrial action could be taken is 26 July 2022.

These ballot follows hot on the heels of similar announcements in Network Rail, Cross Country, East Midlands Railway, West Midlands Trains, and Avanti West Coast, Northern, LNER and C2C in an escalating dispute across the railway.
Quote
Rail union TSSA has served notice to ballot over 6,000 staff at Network Rail for strike action and action short of strike in a dispute over pay, conditions and job security.

The ballot comes as part of an escalating dispute with Network Rail and the wider rail industry, which could result in widespread disruption across Britain’s rail network. TSSA’s members work in operational, control, management and safety critical roles on rail services across Britain.

TSSA is demanding a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies for 2022, no unagreed changes to terms and conditions, and a pay increase which reflects the rising cost of living. Network Rail staff last had a pay rise between two and three years ago (it varies between grades) and also worked throughout the coronavirus pandemic as key workers.

Members are being asked to cast two votes: one on strike action, another on action short of strike. The timetable for the ballot is:
Ballot opens: 20 June 2022
Ballot closes: 11 July 2022
In the event of a yes vote, strike action could take place as early as 25 July 2022


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Birdie100 on June 19, 2022, 21:33:45
Apologies if this has been covered before but how will the mechanics of the strike work in practice, particularly with respect to the signallers? I assume tomorrow (Monday) will run as normal, but ordinarily I’d assume the signallers would handover shifts overnight. I’d have thought every last train out on the network must be able to return before the last signallers clocks off? Presumably the ‘shutdown’ late tomorrow will not be dissimilar to winding down for the Christmas/ Boxing Day holiday? The very few signallers not striking then run the skeleton service left, with I’d have thought minimum staffing eg at least 2 present in the case they need a break?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 20, 2022, 00:22:55
Signalling managers will cover most of the TVSC and boxes that are planned to remain open during the strike.

RMT members booking on before 23:59 in the eve of a strike day will be expected to do so and remain until the end of their shift, so with many night shifts starting at the traditional time of 10pm or thereabouts, getting trains to final destinations shouldn’t be an issue on Monday night.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 20, 2022, 18:17:31
Interestingly, most TOCS *are* closing down early, to be back in their stabling no later than midnight.

Also to note, that Hull Trains have settled with the union & their ASLEF strike has been called off after succcessful negotiations. I wonder what their deal was?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 20, 2022, 21:32:49
Interestingly, most TOCS *are* closing down early, to be back in their stabling no later than midnight.

Are you referring to tonight’s end of service that was being discussed or later on in the week?

A quick check of GWR, SWR, and Chiltern shows (I think) all their trains that terminate between midnight and gone 2am currently running normally tonight.  The 00:32 Paddington to Oxford is one such example.  There are however some ‘signaller taken ill’ cancellations a little earlier on affecting some service through Reading.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 21, 2022, 06:58:54
And so the first strike day.  As I write prior to 07:00, nothing running.  Ironically, no reported short term changes on JourneyCheck for once - no cancellations, no short runs, no trains shorter than usual or running without normal toilet or catering facilities.   Simply no trains ...


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 21, 2022, 07:12:18
And so the first strike day.  As I write prior to 07:00, nothing running.  Ironically, no reported short term changes on JourneyCheck for once - no cancellations, no short runs, no trains shorter than usual or running without normal toilet or catering facilities.   Simply no trains ...

For the contingency to be 'reliable' 12 hours is the maximum that can be covered, the staff and managers who are working are still governed by Network Rails policy, which is based on legislation with its origins from The 'Hidden Report'

Quote
Guidance on the Management of Door-to-Door Work & Travel Time. These
are set out below:
No-one shall work more than 13 consecutive turns of duty in any 14-day period.
No more than 12 hours to be worked per turn of duty/shift.
A minimum rest period of 12 hours between shifts including any travelling time. This may be reduced to 8 hours at
the weekly shift changeover, in the case of staff working a shift pattern which rotates or alternates on a weekly basis.
 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Marlburian on June 21, 2022, 11:15:37
Popped into Tilehurst Station at 0715 this morning on my way to the Big Shop. I was surprised to see that the screen offered a good range of services. Had "they" bothered to change it, I thought. A couple turned up with suitcases; optimists, I thought.

Just checked on Realtime trains, and there seems to have been reasonable service both ways since 0756 this morning. The 0122 also ran.

Might have to revise my revised plans for tomorrow, when I was resigned to not being able to get to Twyford by train for an environmental task close to the station. (Usually my tasks out that way involve a 20-minute walk from the station to Ruscombe.)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Hafren on June 21, 2022, 12:04:16
I had a look at RTT earlier to see how things were going. Something that grabbed my attention was the train formations; there's a 2 car on the remnants of the CDF-PMH route, and several 5 cars on intercity routes. A bit irritating when the operators are generally advising people to expect busy trains, on a day when the stock utilisation rate is well below the usual, but it's understandable that positioning stock for an optimal service start may be difficult today (and I've no idea what actual loadings have been like today). I hope the 5 car appearances on journeys serving Castle Cary don't persist later this week! Contrast with SWR; a look at Waterloo shows almost exclusively maximum length 10/12 car trains.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 21, 2022, 12:08:36
Possibly something to do with the leasing arrangement with Hitachi & how much notice needs giving in order for them to turn out trains of different lengths to 'usual'?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 21, 2022, 12:17:27
Might have to revise my revised plans for tomorrow, when I was resigned to not being able to get to Twyford by train for an environmental task close to the station. (Usually my tasks out that way involve a 20-minute walk from the station to Ruscombe.)

An hour or so sat at Twyford during the day today and you could be forgiven for not being aware a strike is on.  Sixteen trains an hour serving or passing through the station.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 21, 2022, 12:36:19
Possibly something to do with the leasing arrangement with Hitachi & how much notice needs giving in order for them to turn out trains of different lengths to 'usual'?

If so, then hitachi should be told firmly where to go.
Their new trains have been a miserable failure in general availability, and they should therefore be bending over backwards to be as helpful as possible, and NOT putting up more obstacles.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Phantom on June 21, 2022, 12:41:15
Does anyone know what potential dates strikes could be held after this week?
I am going to London on the 30th (from WsM) and was looking to sort other days out by train soon too


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: nickswift99 on June 21, 2022, 12:51:09
Unions are required to give 14 days notice of action, so you can safely assume that there will be no further strike action after this week until at least the 6th July.

Of course, the unions currently in dispute may well also be taking actions short of striking which may make services less reliable.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Hafren on June 21, 2022, 12:54:16
Possibly something to do with the leasing arrangement with Hitachi & how much notice needs giving in order for them to turn out trains of different lengths to 'usual'?

That wouldn't be a surprise. I've had similar issues during engineering works, when the on-train announcement was that the use of a (full) 5 car set on the 'far' side of the blockade was because of something or other to do with the contract with Hitachi. (There would have been a full fleet from the previous night so it wouldn't have been a case of too few sets being that side of the blockade.)

I wondered if Maliphant and Fratton (re CDF-WSB route) being off-limits would be a factor, although with fewer trains running the remaining depots would be turning out fewer sets than usual anyway.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 21, 2022, 14:10:19
Is it just strike notice that has to have 14 days notice or any action short of a strike as well? Or can the latter just begin whenever the union decides?

Also, just be a wee bit aware that new strike dates could be announced before these have completed, say on Friday….but yes, 14 days clear notice required for any more strikes, which of course can start & end at sny time within the 24 hours. A favourite used to be 1359 one day to 1358 the next day, which screwed two full days for one lost shift


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 21, 2022, 14:52:33
I believe ‘Action short of a strike’ can be instigated and run whenever and for however long.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 21, 2022, 16:14:24
Never a good day for this to happen, but today of all days.......


Alterations to services between London Paddington and Reading

Due to a person hit by a train between London Paddington and Reading all lines are closed.
Train services running to and from these stations may be delayed or revised. Windsor & Eton Central will not be served. Disruption is expected until 17:30 21/06.
Customer Advice
Owing to the emergency services dealing with an incident train services between London Paddington and Reading, together with the line between Slough and Windsor & Eton Central are currently suspended.

Owing to the Industrial Action taking place today, resulting in special services being operated over parts the National Rail network, with some routes devoid of any service, it is very much regretted that alternative travel options are extremely limited.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 21, 2022, 16:40:45
Never a good day for this to happen, but today of all days.......

Two of the four lines reopened at Slough where the incident took place as you posted that message.  The reduced number of trains and passengers should mean that the area can cope with only half the line capacity available, though it looks as if Slough station will remain shut and the Windsor branch suspended for a while longer. 

You could argue that it is as near as you can get to a 'good' day for it to happen.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 21, 2022, 16:54:10
Never a good day for this to happen, but today of all days.......

Two of the four lines reopened at Slough where the incident took place as you posted that message.  The reduced number of trains and passengers should mean that the area can cope with only half the line capacity available, though it looks as if Slough station will remain shut and the Windsor branch suspended for a while longer. 

You could argue that it is as near as you can get to a 'good' day for it to happen.

Updated message

Due to a person hit by a train between London Paddington and Reading some lines are closed.
Train services running to and from these stations may be delayed by up to 60 minutes or revised. Windsor & Eton Central and Slough will not be served. Disruption is expected until 19:30 21/06.

Customer Advice
The emergency services are dealing with an incident and have been able to release two of the four tracks in the affected area for train services between London Paddington and Reading to resume operation. However, Slough and Windsor & Eton Central stations will not currently be served


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 21, 2022, 16:56:59
Windsor branch suspended for the rest of the truncated days service.  Delays to services not directly affected at the time only 5-10 or so minutes as they go past on the relief lines.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 21, 2022, 18:02:54
I believe ‘Action short of a strike’ can be instigated and run whenever and for however long.

Also known as working to rule.  Staff just do their contracted hours which for most Network Rail is 35 hours and would also have a big impact on the current contingency cover provided by managers and technical grades



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Bob_Blakey on June 21, 2022, 18:22:30
Out on the bike between Exeter and Dawlish / Rewe. 'Castles' very much in evidence with a few IET9's - RTT indicates that the former were running PLY<>BRI hourly with the latter doing PLY<>PAD roughly every 2 hours. The Red Cow Level Crossing - north end of EXD for anybody not already aware - keepers were absent so the pedestrian gates had been padlocked shut. There was a small RMT picket opposite the north end of the TMD. Whilst waiting for the barriers to open I did clock a few unsuccessful attempts by the RMT crew to hand explanatory leaflets to queuing vehicle drivers.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 21, 2022, 18:42:07
More talks now planned for tomorrow...


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 21, 2022, 19:49:28
It is clear that some trains did run but that the disruption was significant.

Does anyone know if the disruption was as "good" as the RMT expected ? If the disruption was "better" than expected than that seems likely to encourage more strikes.

If however the strike was less effective than was hoped, then that might discourage more strikes.

The RMT will no doubt declare the strike a great success, and "the railway" will no doubt claim that they ran more services than expected, and hope to do even better in future strikes.

Are there any more independent views ?










Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 21, 2022, 20:19:29
Windsor branch suspended for the rest of the truncated days service.  Delays to services not directly affected at the time only 5-10 or so minutes as they go past on the relief lines.

We can only hope that Her Majesty didn't fancy a night out in Slough tonight.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 21, 2022, 20:28:11
Bang goes even more public sympathy (to be fair, there was very little to lose)

A YouGov poll just released does indeed show more of the public 'oppose' the strikes than are 'for' them...but not by very much at all - a difference of just 8% in fact:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/rail-tubes-strikes-london-underground-oppose-support-new-poll-b1007535.html


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Oxonhutch on June 21, 2022, 21:39:32
We can only hope that Her Majesty didn't fancy a night out in Slough tonight.

I can only hope for Her Majesty that a night on the Slough tiles is never on her agenda.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 21, 2022, 21:43:27
From what I’ve seen over the past few days, particularly today, Mick Lynch is definitely winning the media war making some big name MSM journos look rather foolish with their at times bizarre lines of questioning.

Grant Shapps on the other hand looked flustered and irritated in the two interviews I saw this morning with the PM later in the day asking the cabinet to support Grant.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 21, 2022, 22:03:51
It is clear that some trains did run but that the disruption was significant.

Does anyone know if the disruption was as "good" as the RMT expected ? If the disruption was "better" than expected than that seems likely to encourage more strikes.

If however the strike was less effective than was hoped, then that might discourage more strikes.

The RMT will no doubt declare the strike a great success, and "the railway" will no doubt claim that they ran more services than expected, and hope to do even better in future strikes.

Are there any more independent views ?

Well - Transport Focus visited stations closed, open with just a single service, and open with rather more.  I don't know if you would consider these a success, but these are blindingly obvious findings:

Quote
At Cannon Street in London, which is closed, it was eerily quiet

Quote
An early-morning visit to Brighton revealed a much quieter station than normal and plenty of staff on hand for those passengers who were travelling.

Quote
Another colleague who visited Fleet station for us reported that it looked like most people had stayed away and reverted to working from home.






Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: nickswift99 on June 21, 2022, 22:13:58
We can only hope that Her Majesty didn't fancy a night out in Slough tonight.

I can only hope for Her Majesty that a night on the Slough tiles is never on her agenda.

I'm fairly certain that the emergency marmalade sandwich would need deploying should she find herself stranded.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 22, 2022, 07:02:31
Following further on "how effective was the strike?"

From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61883770)

Quote
One new factor in this rail strike was that many commuters are now set up to work from home if they need to.

So, although some bosses will no doubt have found it frustrating, it means the impact isn't as serious for some workers as it might have been in the past.

Frank Bird, a senior network planner at Highways England, said in the post-pandemic world people had come up with a much better Plan B when they can't get into work, and for many that means working from home rather than driving.

Long article, much more detail


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 22, 2022, 07:06:34
I have renamed this topic from "RMT strike days announced" to "RMT strike days, June 2022" to reflect the strikes (at least the first one) actually taking place and the information about them all being within this topic.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 22, 2022, 07:30:00
The Mummy returns!

Good to see the old boy getting out and about on the picket line - still wearing the 1984 baseball cap too!

I'm sure the RMT are hoping it isn't an omen!

 :)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: 1st fan on June 22, 2022, 14:14:05
I had a look at RTT earlier to see how things were going. Something that grabbed my attention was the train formations; there's a 2 car on the remnants of the CDF-PMH route, and several 5 cars on intercity routes. A bit irritating when the operators are generally advising people to expect busy trains, on a day when the stock utilisation rate is well below the usual, but it's understandable that positioning stock for an optimal service start may be difficult today (and I've no idea what actual loadings have been like today). I hope the 5 car appearances on journeys serving Castle Cary don't persist later this week! Contrast with SWR; a look at Waterloo shows almost exclusively maximum length 10/12 car trains.

I spoke to an ex colleague who now lives in an area where GWR don’t have service during strike days. He’s more than a little upset that the advice is don’t travel, he doesn’t have a train service to travel on and needs one to get to work*. However GWR are able to run several trains a day to “allow people to go to a music festival that doesn’t have any music playing for days”.

*If he’s a no show at his job he doesn’t get paid. Doesn’t believe that GWR have got their priorities straight as a result.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 22, 2022, 14:42:29
I had a look at RTT earlier to see how things were going. Something that grabbed my attention was the train formations; there's a 2 car on the remnants of the CDF-PMH route, and several 5 cars on intercity routes. A bit irritating when the operators are generally advising people to expect busy trains, on a day when the stock utilisation rate is well below the usual, but it's understandable that positioning stock for an optimal service start may be difficult today (and I've no idea what actual loadings have been like today). I hope the 5 car appearances on journeys serving Castle Cary don't persist later this week! Contrast with SWR; a look at Waterloo shows almost exclusively maximum length 10/12 car trains.

I spoke to an ex colleague who now lives in an area where GWR don’t have service during strike days. He’s more than a little upset that the advice is don’t travel, he doesn’t have a train service to travel on and needs one to get to work*. However GWR are able to run several trains a day to “allow people to go to a music festival that doesn’t have any music playing for days”.

*If he’s a no show at his job he doesn’t get paid. Doesn’t believe that GWR have got their priorities straight as a result.

It may be that GWR had no choice in the lack of services to your exColleague. As  I understand it, most of the places lacking GWR trains was the lack of Network Rail staff to keep the lines open.  The only exception was Melksham where the line was open - 4 trains each way on strike day - but they didn't stop them!



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: didcotdean on June 22, 2022, 15:16:08
Bang goes even more public sympathy (to be fair, there was very little to lose)

A YouGov poll just released does indeed show more of the public 'oppose' the strikes than are 'for' them...but not by very much at all - a difference of just 8% in fact:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/rail-tubes-strikes-london-underground-oppose-support-new-poll-b1007535.html
As with any opinion poll, the results depend on the exact wording of the question, and possibly what is asked leading up to the question. A poll taken around the same time by a different pollster (ComRes) indicates 58% of people think the rail strikes are justified. Still finely balanced though.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 22, 2022, 15:39:33
Yes I agree. 

Some of yesterday’s media interviews with Mick Lynch verged on the ridiculous IMHO and made it ridiculously easy for him. 

I’m no fan, but by and large was fairly impressed with how he handled the media.  More so than Shapps anyway.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: 1st fan on June 22, 2022, 17:45:19
I had a look at RTT earlier to see how things were going. Something that grabbed my attention was the train formations; there's a 2 car on the remnants of the CDF-PMH route, and several 5 cars on intercity routes. A bit irritating when the operators are generally advising people to expect busy trains, on a day when the stock utilisation rate is well below the usual, but it's understandable that positioning stock for an optimal service start may be difficult today (and I've no idea what actual loadings have been like today). I hope the 5 car appearances on journeys serving Castle Cary don't persist later this week! Contrast with SWR; a look at Waterloo shows almost exclusively maximum length 10/12 car trains.

I spoke to an ex colleague who now lives in an area where GWR don’t have service during strike days. He’s more than a little upset that the advice is don’t travel, he doesn’t have a train service to travel on and needs one to get to work*. However GWR are able to run several trains a day to “allow people to go to a music festival that doesn’t have any music playing for days”.

*If he’s a no show at his job he doesn’t get paid. Doesn’t believe that GWR have got their priorities straight as a result.

It may be that GWR had no choice in the lack of services to your exColleague. As  I understand it, most of the places lacking GWR trains was the lack of Network Rail staff to keep the lines open.  The only exception was Melksham where the line was open - 4 trains each way on strike day - but they didn't stop them!



I know that, you know that, but try telling him that.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: CyclingSid on June 23, 2022, 06:58:14
Be careful what comparisons you use?
https://twitter.com/SueSuezep/status/1539203545529991172?cxt=HHwWiICyhYferNwqAAAA (https://twitter.com/SueSuezep/status/1539203545529991172?cxt=HHwWiICyhYferNwqAAAA)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 23, 2022, 08:26:16
Paddington looking very quiet this morning, I doubt the same can be said for the roads heading to Glastonbury!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 23, 2022, 08:44:51
Be careful what comparisons you use?
https://twitter.com/SueSuezep/status/1539203545529991172?cxt=HHwWiICyhYferNwqAAAA (https://twitter.com/SueSuezep/status/1539203545529991172?cxt=HHwWiICyhYferNwqAAAA)

This os a better one!

https://twitter.com/rmtunion/status/1539645558016851969?s=21&t=gJiIRBM-UEGqsbMMw-_BWQ


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 23, 2022, 11:08:38
Be careful what comparisons you use?
https://twitter.com/SueSuezep/status/1539203545529991172?cxt=HHwWiICyhYferNwqAAAA (https://twitter.com/SueSuezep/status/1539203545529991172?cxt=HHwWiICyhYferNwqAAAA)

Certainly the MP's approach needs to be modernised, they have after all chosen not to vacate the Palace of Westminster to allow the quickest and most cost effective means of renovating the building instead they have chosen to keep to their old working practices of tea rooms and bars.   Don't get me started on the stalled devolution process and house of Lords, there should be a parliament for England with the house of Lords being the Federal Governance of the UK ............... but then its only the Railways that have out dated Victoria working practices  ;D


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 23, 2022, 12:56:31
Meanwhile the GWR ASLEF ballots have been issued, with votes to be returned no later than 11th July.  Should 'action short of a strike' or 'strike action' be voted for then it would be likely to commence in about a month from now.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Henry on June 23, 2022, 13:17:41

 Speculation on the BBC news, airport staff balloted for strike action.
 Expected yes vote, talking about industrial action on or about 23 July.
 No doubt that should the RMT not reach an aggrement, would they also have this date in
 mind for any future action ?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 23, 2022, 18:32:33

 Speculation on the BBC news, airport staff balloted for strike action.
 Expected yes vote, talking about industrial action on or about 23 July.
 No doubt that should the RMT not reach an aggrement, would they also have this date in
 mind for any future action ?

Trains, planes, thank God for automobiles!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61906236


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Oxonhutch on June 23, 2022, 22:45:26
Waiting to see if the strike will affect my railway on Saturday when I am Fat Controller. I could ask my management for a 100% pay rise right now, and they would agree on the spot.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: CyclingSid on June 24, 2022, 06:52:54
100% of not a lot?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 25, 2022, 07:40:41
Blimey. Didn't realise the Railways suits salaries were quite that high!

I wonder how Hopwoods et al compare?

They must have a good Trade Union, I doubt Sundays are part of their working week either!!!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on June 25, 2022, 08:17:15
Blimey. Didn't realise the Railways suits salaries were quite that high!

I wonder how Hopwoods et al compare?

They must have a good Trade Union, I doubt Sundays are part of their working week either!!!

I'm not sure whether this has been mentioned before, but I have been shown an email which contains the following paragraph relating to GWR directors....

Quote
Meanwhile in the Accounting years 2020 to 2021 all of the Directors pay increased by £126,000 (or more than 18%!) from £685,000 in 2020 to £811,000 in 2021, all while staff received a pay freeze and real terms pay cut! It looks like only 4 directors were paid direct by GWR (the others were paid by Group) and we know that one left in June 2021 and the highest paid director dropped their pay by £10,000 to £282,000 (or this could have been as a result of a Director leaving perhaps?) so on average the Directors who received a pay rise received an average pay increase of somewhere between £34,000-45,333 each! More than many staff receive in a full year!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 25, 2022, 08:41:31
Blimey. Didn't realise the Railways suits salaries were quite that high!

I wonder how Hopwoods et al compare?

They must have a good Trade Union, I doubt Sundays are part of their working week either!!!

I'm not sure whether this has been mentioned before, but I have been shown an email which contains the following paragraph relating to GWR directors....

Quote
Meanwhile in the Accounting years 2020 to 2021 all of the Directors pay increased by £126,000 (or more than 18%!) from £685,000 in 2020 to £811,000 in 2021, all while staff received a pay freeze and real terms pay cut! It looks like only 4 directors were paid direct by GWR (the others were paid by Group) and we know that one left in June 2021 and the highest paid director dropped their pay by £10,000 to £282,000 (or this could have been as a result of a Director leaving perhaps?) so on average the Directors who received a pay rise received an average pay increase of somewhere between £34,000-45,333 each! More than many staff receive in a full year!

Nice work if you can get it!

It's not uncommon for those running formerly nationalised industries/Utilities to be filling their boots in this way it would seem.

I've long thought that there should be a direct link between customer satisfaction levels and executive salaries in these circumstances - might concentrate a few minds and provide some focus!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 25, 2022, 08:51:48
I've long thought that there should be a direct link between customer satisfaction levels and executive salaries in these circumstances - might concentrate a few minds and provide some focus!

With so much control of the railways now with the Department for Transport, should there also be a link between the salaries of the civil servants concerned and customer satisfaction levels?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 25, 2022, 09:05:46
Blimey. Didn't realise the Railways suits salaries were quite that high!

I wonder how Hopwoods et al compare?

They must have a good Trade Union, I doubt Sundays are part of their working week either!!!

This is part of the grievance the Unions have, the Executives get a rise in pay yet the ones on the frontline even working long hours still have to make use of food banks!!!

The government continually refer to the median wage on the railways as £45,000 or the salaries of train drivers however the vast majority of rail workers are more on a starting salary around £22,000 a year. With experience, this could go up to around £23,700 a year. they can earn extra through shift allowance and overtime.  

The average for NR skilled maintenance technicians is £33,000, these are the people who fix the signals, track, power supplies, OLE ie the people who make the infrastructure safe for trains to travel over every day

One final note MP's who at the end of the day are 'public sector workers' have given themselves a £2,212 pay rise


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 25, 2022, 09:08:47
I've long thought that there should be a direct link between customer satisfaction levels and executive salaries in these circumstances - might concentrate a few minds and provide some focus!

With so much control of the railways now with the Department for Transport, should there also be a link between the salaries of the civil servants concerned and customer satisfaction levels?

They should be on the same contract terms as a premier league manage ............. i.e. if the performance fails they get sacked


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on June 25, 2022, 09:38:54
I've long thought that there should be a direct link between customer satisfaction levels and executive salaries in these circumstances - might concentrate a few minds and provide some focus!

With so much control of the railways now with the Department for Transport, should there also be a link between the salaries of the civil servants concerned and customer satisfaction levels?

We must recognise that the performance of senior civil servants may often be difficult measure as there needs to be a way to discern the effects of their actions from the quality of instructions they get from minsters. 

Was it the work of a civil servant or a Special Advisor (SPAD - no not a signal passed at danger) ? For example the imperial units 'consultation' falls so far short of civil service standards that I am almost certain that it was written by a Special Advisor and published on the instructions of the minster.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Mark A on June 25, 2022, 12:13:07
The minister of state for transport played fast and loose with a stats calculation and even showed their workings. The likes of 'Full Fact' took this apart:

https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

Mark


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on June 25, 2022, 12:22:11
The minister of state for transport played fast and loose with a stats calculation and even showed their workings. The likes of 'Full Fact' took this apart:

https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/

Mark

Link does not work


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Mark A on June 25, 2022, 12:35:24
Oops, ta, forgot that directly pasting links isn't good. Here you are.

https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/ (https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 25, 2022, 12:41:58
Oops, ta, forgot that directly pasting links isn't good. Here you are.

https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/ (https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/)

Still doesn't work.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 25, 2022, 12:54:32
Oops, ta, forgot that directly pasting links isn't good. Here you are.

https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/ (https://fullfact.org/economy/RMT-strike-salary/)

Still doesn't work.

Looks like the original is designed to work only when you navigate to it from the site indexes and not as a landing page.

Mirror for Coffee Shop members at http://www.passenger.chat/RMT-strike-salary.pdf


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 01, 2022, 19:32:21
From the BBC News website (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62009982)

Quote
Rail strikes: No rush to call for more action, says union

A rail workers' union has said it is "not in any rush" to call for further strikes in July, following last week's walkouts which caused significant disruption across the UK.

Eddie Dempsey, senior assistant general secretary at the RMT, said the union did not "take these steps lightly".

Mr Dempsey, who is also leading talks with Network Rail, said it had been an intense week of discussions.

The two sides are trying to reach an agreement to prevent further strikes.

Thousands of members of the RMT who work for Network Rail and 13 train companies walked out on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday last week as part of a dispute over job cuts, pay and conditions.

Half of the rail network was closed on strike days, while the knock-on impact meant services were also disrupted on the following days.

The union has warned more strike action could follow.

However, when asked on the BBC's Today programme whether there could be further strikes in July, Mr Dempsey said: "We've told people we're not in any rush.

"I think we've made a pretty emphatic point with the strike action we put on. We don't take these steps lightly. We're in no rush to run into the boardroom and name further action."

The RMT and Network Rail are initially trying to reach an agreement on job security, before discussing pay and conditions.

Mr Dempsey said the discussions this week had been "fairly intense".

"We're progressing in terms of discussions. There are some fundamental issues of difficulty between us still, and that's why we're seeking feedback, but we haven't gotten onto the question of pay yet," Mr Dempsey said.

"That's going to be a really important issue, and whether or not there can be an offer that satisfies our people, we will have to wait and see."

Talks 'constructive'

It came as the lead negotiator for Network Rail, Tim Shoveller, said he was "cautiously optimistic" that an agreement would be reached with the RMT union to prevent further strikes.

Speaking to the Today programme, Mr Shoveller said talks since last week's walkouts had been "constructive".

On 20 June, the day before the first rail strike, Network Rail gave the RMT a letter inviting them to a formal consultation meeting on 1 July about introducing reforms to working practices which would involve job losses.

A spokesperson told the BBC this week that although the letter had not been withdrawn, all sides had agreed to temporarily set it aside to enable talks to continue, and it would only come into play if talks stalled.

Mr Shoveller confirmed to the BBC that the meeting originally planned for this morning to formally start that process would no longer take place.

He said there was "no need" for it, as the best way to find a conclusion was through negotiation. He added that "the letter remains in place, but at the moment that is not preventing us from having the conversations we need to have".

Mr Shoveller described this as a "pragmatic position" after "pragmatic conversations" with the RMT this week, and there was no need to start that formal consultation for the moment.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on July 04, 2022, 16:49:30
I have now heard of ANOTHER case of ex railway workers leaving the railway for alternative work.

Two young men, previously employed on p-way maintenance in Scotland. They considered that "the railway" were a bad employer who treated staff very badly. Harsh weather is to be expected and not the employers fault, but unsuitable and uncomfortable workwear IS the employers fault. And the lack of welfare facilities is also the fault of the employers.

They now work for the local utility company, primarily on overhead line maintenance and repair, so still exposed to similar bad weather. But better clothed and equipped for the conditions. The employer provides a choice of workwear, with the only strict rule that it must be fire retardant. Employees own clothing worn under the issued workwear must be in natural fibres in case of fire. 100% cotton long underwear is favored in moderately cold weather, with similar garments in 100% wool for more severe conditions.
The mobile "welfare unit" is much better than anything provided by the railway. It is a light truck fitted with cooking facilities, an effective heater, and storage.

They actually ENJOYED storm Arwen !
"loadsa overtime"
" interesting challenges"
"great fun"
" The manager took us all to the pub afterwards"


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on July 04, 2022, 20:28:37
I have now heard of ANOTHER case of ex railway workers leaving the railway for alternative work.

Two young men, previously employed on p-way maintenance in Scotland. They considered that "the railway" were a bad employer who treated staff very badly. Harsh weather is to be expected and not the employers fault, but unsuitable and uncomfortable workwear IS the employers fault. And the lack of welfare facilities is also the fault of the employers.

They now work for the local utility company, primarily on overhead line maintenance and repair, so still exposed to similar bad weather. But better clothed and equipped for the conditions. The employer provides a choice of workwear, with the only strict rule that it must be fire retardant. Employees own clothing worn under the issued workwear must be in natural fibres in case of fire. 100% cotton long underwear is favored in moderately cold weather, with similar garments in 100% wool for more severe conditions.
The mobile "welfare unit" is much better than anything provided by the railway. It is a light truck fitted with cooking facilities, an effective heater, and storage.

They actually ENJOYED storm Arwen !
"loadsa overtime"
" interesting challenges"
"great fun"
" The manager took us all to the pub afterwards"

Given that there is a shortage of workers and money is tight this is what employers will have to do to ensure they have enough staff.  Provide good working conditions (as good as is possible given the nature of the work) and treat them well. On pay it is more difficult, but if people cannot survive of the wages offered they will walk. If someone still needs to claim benefits after working a full time then the employer is having a laugh at both the employee and the taxpayer's expense. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on July 04, 2022, 21:18:33
In the case above, the move from the railway to the power company was not due to better wages, the pay is "about the same"
Railway management were considered "unhelpful" and "looking for a fight" and generally disliked. Any complaints about unsuitable clothing or boots, and lack of welfare facilities was blamed upon the bad weather.

The utility company by contrast issued better workwear, waterproof boots, and provided various forms of mobile welfare unit.
They even subsidise the purchase of long underwear for outdoor work. "There is no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing"

One manager, not equipped for outdoor work, did cook a hot meal for the team. Another manager give an extra half day off work and paid for food and drink in the pub.


After any major incident such as storm Arwen, a "recovery day" is declared. This is NOT an extra day off, it is a working day but confined to the depot. The day is spent carefully examining work vehicles for any defects or damages acquired during extreme use. Minor repairs are performed or the vehicle sent away for any major repairs. Company tools and equipment are examined in detail and any deficiencies dealt with. Personal tool kits are likewise inspected and replacements supplied if needed.
Supplies of spares and consumables in work vehicles are then checked and replenished as needed.
Workwear is inspected and laundered or replaced as needed.
Finally depot stocks of spares and consumables are carefully checked for both quantity and condition.

This avoids future incidents like "Alfie, bring me three fuses, type XXYY"  Oh dear we only have one left, I think we used loads in the flood at AABB.




Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on July 05, 2022, 06:23:33
I have now heard of ANOTHER case of ex railway workers leaving the railway for alternative work.

Two young men, previously employed on p-way maintenance in Scotland. They considered that "the railway" were a bad employer who treated staff very badly. Harsh weather is to be expected and not the employers fault, but unsuitable and uncomfortable workwear IS the employers fault. And the lack of welfare facilities is also the fault of the employers.

They now work for the local utility company, primarily on overhead line maintenance and repair, so still exposed to similar bad weather. But better clothed and equipped for the conditions. The employer provides a choice of workwear, with the only strict rule that it must be fire retardant. Employees own clothing worn under the issued workwear must be in natural fibres in case of fire. 100% cotton long underwear is favored in moderately cold weather, with similar garments in 100% wool for more severe conditions.
The mobile "welfare unit" is much better than anything provided by the railway. It is a light truck fitted with cooking facilities, an effective heater, and storage.

They actually ENJOYED storm Arwen !
"loadsa overtime"
" interesting challenges"
"great fun"
" The manager took us all to the pub afterwards"

In the case above, the move from the railway to the power company was not due to better wages, the pay is "about the same"
Railway management were considered "unhelpful" and "looking for a fight" and generally disliked. Any complaints about unsuitable clothing or boots, and lack of welfare facilities was blamed upon the bad weather.

The utility company by contrast issued better workwear, waterproof boots, and provided various forms of mobile welfare unit.
They even subsidise the purchase of long underwear for outdoor work. "There is no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing"

One manager, not equipped for outdoor work, did cook a hot meal for the team. Another manager give an extra half day off work and paid for food and drink in the pub.


After any major incident such as storm Arwen, a "recovery day" is declared. This is NOT an extra day off, it is a working day but confined to the depot. The day is spent carefully examining work vehicles for any defects or damages acquired during extreme use. Minor repairs are performed or the vehicle sent away for any major repairs. Company tools and equipment are examined in detail and any deficiencies dealt with. Personal tool kits are likewise inspected and replacements supplied if needed.
Supplies of spares and consumables in work vehicles are then checked and replenished as needed.
Workwear is inspected and laundered or replaced as needed.
Finally depot stocks of spares and consumables are carefully checked for both quantity and condition.

This avoids future incidents like "Alfie, bring me three fuses, type XXYY"  Oh dear we only have one left, I think we used loads in the flood at AABB.

With regards PPE (clothing) yes the basic issue is not always what is required for certain rolls; however, the PPE catalogue has a very wide range of PPE to suite all weather conditions.   The only teams mandated to wear arc flash PPE are Distribution staff who work in high Voltage substations.

Welfare facilities are recognised in the railway industry as a challenge, a lot of work has been done in recent years to improve things.  There is an internal phone app that gives detail of the nearest welfare to where you are including any information like lock combination numbers.  Welfare vans are available in each delivery unit and a local manager can order more from hire companies.  For longer duration work port-a-potties are provided along the worksite with larger facilities at signing on points.

Like any large employer there are going to be good, bad or indifferent management


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on July 05, 2022, 07:00:07
The utility workers to whom I referred are required in general to wear arc flash resistant clothing, in hot weather this may be removed if not working near live equipment.

Employees own clothing MUST BE of 100% natural fibres in case of arc flash accidents. broadgage suggested a supplier of 100% cotton long underwear, most sold in the UK contains polyester or other fake stuff.

The welfare vans are well equipped. Self heating tinned food is very much appreciated for quick hot snacks in bad weather.

The main problem is toilet facilities. Portable toilets of the Turdis type are available but in stormy weather tend to blow away. At least one was destroyed and another one never seen again. "Probably in Norway by now"


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 13, 2022, 19:43:33
Need to update the header subjectnow. New RMT strike day announced for July 27.

From BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62154070)

Quote
Rail strike: New walkout to take place on 27 July

Railway workers are to stage a one-day strike on 27 July as part of an ongoing dispute over pay, jobs and conditions, the RMT union says.

It comes after thousands of train operator and Network Rail workers walked out during national strike action in June.

The strikes caused disruption for millions of commuters.

Earlier this week, Network Rail made workers a fresh pay offer it said was worth more than 5%.

But the offer depended on workers accepting "modernising reforms".

RMT leaders rejected the new offer describing it as "paltry".

It also said it would consult other unions with mandates for strike action in the coming days.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "The offer from Network Rail represents a real terms pay cut for our members and the paltry sum is conditional on RMT members agreeing to drastic changes in their working lives.

"The train operating companies remain stubborn and are refusing to make any new offer which deals with job security and pay," he added.

"Strike action is the only course open to us to make both the rail industry and government understand that this dispute will continue for as long as it takes, until we get a negotiated settlement."

Last month Britain's rail network was brought close to a standstill as tens of thousands of rail workers walked out in what unions said was the biggest rail strike in 30 years.

The RMT held three strikes over the course of a week, severely disrupting services across the country.

The union, whose members include everyone from guards and signallers to catering staff and cleaners, is looking for a pay rise of at least 7%.

It also wants a written guarantee from Network Rail that no compulsory redundancies will be made as part of planned reforms.

So far the government has rejected the union's demands to negotiate with it directly.

In June, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps accused the RMT of "damaging people's lives".

And the RMT's version (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-calls-24-hours-strike-action/)

Quote
13 July 2022

RMT Press Office:

RMT calls 24 hours strike action after rejecting "paltry" Network Rail offer.

Railway workers will once again take strike action over job security, pay and working conditions on Wednesday July 27.

The 24-hour stoppage comes after Network Rail made an offer of 4pc in the first year followed by a possible 4pc in the second year, conditional on RMT members accepting all attacks on their terms and conditions.

RMT has yet to receive a pay offer or guarantees over job losses from the train operating companies (TOCs).

Network Rail members will strike from 2am on Wednesday July 27 for 24 hours. And members on the TOCs will take action from 00.01 until 23:59 on the 27 July.

We will also be consulting other unions that have delivered mandates for strike action in the coming days.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "The offer from Network Rail represents a real terms pay cut for our members and the paltry sum is conditional on RMT members agreeing to drastic changes in their working lives.

"We have made progress on compulsory redundancies. But Network Rail are still seeking to make our members poorer when we have won in some cases double what they are offering, with other rail operators.

"The train operating companies remain stubborn and are refusing to make any new offer which deals with job security and pay.

"Strike action is the only course open to us to make both the rail industry and government understand that this dispute will continue for as long as it takes, until we get a negotiated settlement.

"The public who will be inconvenienced by our strike action need to understand that it is the government's shackling of Network Rail and the TOCs that means the rail network will be shut down for 24 hours.

"We remain open for further talks."

I understand the offer was 5% with strings attached.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on July 13, 2022, 20:32:43
Title updated. (When does Autumn start?)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 13, 2022, 20:46:36
September, I think


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on July 13, 2022, 22:53:21
Title updated. (When does Autumn start?)

September, I think

Astronomically    - 21st September;
Meteorologically  - 1st September.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 14, 2022, 05:51:33
Need to update the header subjectnow. New RMT strike day announced for July 27.

From BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62154070)

Quote
Rail strike: New walkout to take place on 27 July

Railway workers are to stage a one-day strike on 27 July as part of an ongoing dispute over pay, jobs and conditions, the RMT union says.

It comes after thousands of train operator and Network Rail workers walked out during national strike action in June.

The strikes caused disruption for millions of commuters.

Earlier this week, Network Rail made workers a fresh pay offer it said was worth more than 5%.

But the offer depended on workers accepting "modernising reforms".

RMT leaders rejected the new offer describing it as "paltry".

It also said it would consult other unions with mandates for strike action in the coming days.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "The offer from Network Rail represents a real terms pay cut for our members and the paltry sum is conditional on RMT members agreeing to drastic changes in their working lives.

"The train operating companies remain stubborn and are refusing to make any new offer which deals with job security and pay," he added.

"Strike action is the only course open to us to make both the rail industry and government understand that this dispute will continue for as long as it takes, until we get a negotiated settlement."

Last month Britain's rail network was brought close to a standstill as tens of thousands of rail workers walked out in what unions said was the biggest rail strike in 30 years.

The RMT held three strikes over the course of a week, severely disrupting services across the country.

The union, whose members include everyone from guards and signallers to catering staff and cleaners, is looking for a pay rise of at least 7%.

It also wants a written guarantee from Network Rail that no compulsory redundancies will be made as part of planned reforms.

So far the government has rejected the union's demands to negotiate with it directly.

In June, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps accused the RMT of "damaging people's lives".

And the RMT's version (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-calls-24-hours-strike-action/)

Quote
13 July 2022

RMT Press Office:

RMT calls 24 hours strike action after rejecting "paltry" Network Rail offer.

Railway workers will once again take strike action over job security, pay and working conditions on Wednesday July 27.

The 24-hour stoppage comes after Network Rail made an offer of 4pc in the first year followed by a possible 4pc in the second year, conditional on RMT members accepting all attacks on their terms and conditions.

RMT has yet to receive a pay offer or guarantees over job losses from the train operating companies (TOCs).

Network Rail members will strike from 2am on Wednesday July 27 for 24 hours. And members on the TOCs will take action from 00.01 until 23:59 on the 27 July.

We will also be consulting other unions that have delivered mandates for strike action in the coming days.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "The offer from Network Rail represents a real terms pay cut for our members and the paltry sum is conditional on RMT members agreeing to drastic changes in their working lives.

"We have made progress on compulsory redundancies. But Network Rail are still seeking to make our members poorer when we have won in some cases double what they are offering, with other rail operators.

"The train operating companies remain stubborn and are refusing to make any new offer which deals with job security and pay.

"Strike action is the only course open to us to make both the rail industry and government understand that this dispute will continue for as long as it takes, until we get a negotiated settlement.

"The public who will be inconvenienced by our strike action need to understand that it is the government's shackling of Network Rail and the TOCs that means the rail network will be shut down for 24 hours.

"We remain open for further talks."

I understand the offer was 5% with strings attached.

The "strings" being modernisation. Not something the RMT are keen on.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on July 14, 2022, 22:46:59
The RMT will instruct all grades at NR and TOCs in dispute to walk out on 18th and 20th August.

ASLEF will strike on 30th July.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 19, 2022, 13:40:02
From The Telegraph, via MSN -

 (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/take-it-or-leave-it-network-rail-tells-striking-workers/ar-AAZHoxM?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=8f5a12209f864c6cb73bc6aa0eb56d2c)
Quote
Take it or leave it, Network Rail tells striking workers

Network Rail has insisted it will not improve its pay deal for staff in an ultimatum that raises the spectre of strike action lasting throughout the summer and into the autumn.

Andrew Haines, chief executive of the state-backed owner of tracks and stations, has today told staff that there are "no significantly better deals".

In an internal email to staff, seen by The Telegraph, Mr Haines said that last week’s pay offer of an average of 5pc is the best Network Rail can offer.

“Anyone who truly believes that there can be a pay offer that meets or exceeds the highest levels of inflation for a generation, is not being realistic,” he said.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport workers union (RMT), the protagonist of the industrial action to date, rejected the Network Rail deal and announced a fresh wave of walkouts on July 27, and August 18 and 20.

Drivers union Aslef will also strike on July 30.

Mr Haines continued: “I have to level with you; there are no significantly better deals out there for us right now. I am sorry, I know that’s not what you want to hear with inflation as high as it is. But it is true.

“Commuters and business travellers show no signs of returning to their pre-pandemic travel habits. And that’s what forms the backbone of the railway’s fares income.

“In fact, it’s worse than that. If talks break down now, our financial situation gets worse. The cost of strike action has already exceeded £100m - as well as causing misery for millions of passengers and harming the reputation of our railway. Each of those pounds lost is a pound we can no longer give to you through a pay offer.

“I don’t say this as a threat, it's simply the reality we face.” 

The RMT has previously warned that it has a mandate to bombard commuters with waves of strikes until Christmas.

Asked if last month if passengers should expect a "long fight", Mr Lynch told the i newspaper: “That may have to be the way that is, I hope that’s not the case, but there doesn’t seem to be much evidence at the moment that it’s going to go any other way."

Last week’s Network Rail “final offer” included a 5pc pay rise, heavily discounted train travel for family members and cash bonuses of up to £900. The state-owned company also ruled out compulsory redundancies for the next two years.

Mick Lynch, general secretary of RMT said: “The offer from Network Rail represents a real terms pay cut for our members, and the paltry sum is conditional on RMT members agreeing to drastic changes in their working lives.”

Train operators are yet to offer similar terms.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on July 19, 2022, 16:25:13
From The Telegraph, via MSN -

 (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/take-it-or-leave-it-network-rail-tells-striking-workers/ar-AAZHoxM?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=8f5a12209f864c6cb73bc6aa0eb56d2c)
Quote
Take it or leave it, Network Rail tells striking workers

Network Rail has insisted it will not improve its pay deal for staff in an ultimatum that raises the spectre of strike action lasting throughout the summer and into the autumn.

Andrew Haines, chief executive of the state-backed owner of tracks and stations, has today told staff that there are "no significantly better deals".

In an internal email to staff, seen by The Telegraph, Mr Haines said that last week’s pay offer of an average of 5pc is the best Network Rail can offer.

“Anyone who truly believes that there can be a pay offer that meets or exceeds the highest levels of inflation for a generation, is not being realistic,” he said.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport workers union (RMT), the protagonist of the industrial action to date, rejected the Network Rail deal and announced a fresh wave of walkouts on July 27, and August 18 and 20.

Drivers union Aslef will also strike on July 30.

Mr Haines continued: “I have to level with you; there are no significantly better deals out there for us right now. I am sorry, I know that’s not what you want to hear with inflation as high as it is. But it is true.

“Commuters and business travellers show no signs of returning to their pre-pandemic travel habits. And that’s what forms the backbone of the railway’s fares income.

“In fact, it’s worse than that. If talks break down now, our financial situation gets worse. The cost of strike action has already exceeded £100m - as well as causing misery for millions of passengers and harming the reputation of our railway. Each of those pounds lost is a pound we can no longer give to you through a pay offer.

“I don’t say this as a threat, it's simply the reality we face.” 

The RMT has previously warned that it has a mandate to bombard commuters with waves of strikes until Christmas.

Asked if last month if passengers should expect a "long fight", Mr Lynch told the i newspaper: “That may have to be the way that is, I hope that’s not the case, but there doesn’t seem to be much evidence at the moment that it’s going to go any other way."

Last week’s Network Rail “final offer” included a 5pc pay rise, heavily discounted train travel for family members and cash bonuses of up to £900. The state-owned company also ruled out compulsory redundancies for the next two years.

Mick Lynch, general secretary of RMT said: “The offer from Network Rail represents a real terms pay cut for our members, and the paltry sum is conditional on RMT members agreeing to drastic changes in their working lives.”

Train operators are yet to offer similar terms.



Except the pay raise offered is not technically an average of a 5%


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on July 19, 2022, 17:39:27
Except the pay raise offered is not technically an average of a 5%

What's the technicality?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: onthecushions on July 19, 2022, 20:59:17

Interestingly the quoted  "good" employer was a (privatised but regulated) utility company or its sub; the "bad" employer was dear Network Rail or its subs, property of HMG.

OTC


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on July 20, 2022, 18:26:26
Except the pay raise offered is not technically an average of a 5%

What's the technicality?

Because the 5% is the headline, it is not a straight 5% now, it is something like 3% now and 2% next year with the strings of "modernisation of maintenance" attached which the Union believe will result in redundancies and de-skilling which in the Unions view will impact of public safety.   The offer of staff leisure discount travel is something the Unions in NR have been seeking for years and do not want to see it as part of pay.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Phantom on July 21, 2022, 10:56:57
I know there is a GWR strike planned for the 30th
In the past it was mentioned services early the next day could be impacted

Does anyone know when a finalised timetable for the 31st will be released - or will it be the usual timetable?

The reason I ask I am taking sister and her family to Wembley on the 08:58 train from Weston on the 31st


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: trainbuff on July 21, 2022, 22:33:39
There is strike action planned for the 30th July but I will point out it is not RMT but rather the Drivers Union ASLEF. Only RMT drivers will be working and there are not many of them


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 22, 2022, 07:58:12
Yes, if the ASLEF strike goes ahead, the service is likely to be extremely limited for the affected operators…far more do than the RMT action.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on July 22, 2022, 10:01:21
Yes, if the ASLEF strike goes ahead, the service is likely to be extremely limited for the affected operators…far more do than the RMT action.

Given the ASLEF strike is on a Saturday, Sunday could go one of two ways….
Either they’ll all volunteer to work to recoup their losses OR they could decide to have a weekend off.  If I was a betting man, I’d favour the later


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on July 22, 2022, 10:05:58
Yes, if the ASLEF strike goes ahead, the service is likely to be extremely limited for the affected operators…far more do than the RMT action.

Given the ASLEF strike is on a Saturday, Sunday could go one of two ways….
Either they’ll all volunteer to work to recoup their losses OR they could decide to have a weekend off.  If I was a betting man, I’d favour the later

If I were management and my staff went on strike, I would ban overtime as a means for staff to recoup loss of wages - even if my company lost out because of it.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 22, 2022, 10:11:20
That is a card that the DfT could choose to play at some point.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on July 22, 2022, 10:54:00
Yes, if the ASLEF strike goes ahead, the service is likely to be extremely limited for the affected operators…far more do than the RMT action.

Given the ASLEF strike is on a Saturday, Sunday could go one of two ways….
Either they’ll all volunteer to work to recoup their losses OR they could decide to have a weekend off.  If I was a betting man, I’d favour the later

If I were management and my staff went on strike, I would ban overtime as a means for staff to recoup loss of wages - even if my company lost out because of it.



..so no Sunday service at all


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on July 22, 2022, 14:00:27
From GWR - echoing the different groups striking on different days.

Quote
Services on strike days will be extremely limited, and on Saturday 30th July there will be no GWR services on most of the network. Where trains are able to run we are expecting them to be very busy, and the last services will be much earlier than normal. There will also be disruption on Thursday 28th July and Sunday 31st July.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Marlburian on July 22, 2022, 15:24:14
My Polish friend is flying back to London on Sunday, so I checked on the trains from Stansted and discovered there was a replacement bus service to Waltham Cross, where she could then get a train. Turns out to be "planned engineering works". She was going to book a seat on National Express, then looked again at her air ticket and saw it was for Luton.The trains there to London look OK.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 22, 2022, 16:43:31
Yes, if the ASLEF strike goes ahead, the service is likely to be extremely limited for the affected operators…far more do than the RMT action.

Given the ASLEF strike is on a Saturday, Sunday could go one of two ways….
Either they’ll all volunteer to work to recoup their losses OR they could decide to have a weekend off.  If I was a betting man, I’d favour the later

Sales of charcoal, sausages and burgers are forecast to spike!  :)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 22, 2022, 18:29:14
Gotta keep morale up on the picket line somehow!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Henry on July 22, 2022, 19:31:55

 Rail Strikes to go ahead next Wednesday.
 RMT could not agree to ticket office closures and driver only operation.
 (there's a surprise).
 Can not see any settlement soon.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: trainbuff on July 22, 2022, 22:38:12
That is a card that the DfT could choose to play at some point.

Which does indeed show that the DfT can settle the strike rather than Network Rail and the TOC's. They cant have it both ways but it is the DfT that holds the purse strings


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on July 23, 2022, 07:03:15
Yes, if the ASLEF strike goes ahead, the service is likely to be extremely limited for the affected operators…far more do than the RMT action.

Given the ASLEF strike is on a Saturday, Sunday could go one of two ways….
Either they’ll all volunteer to work to recoup their losses OR they could decide to have a weekend off.  If I was a betting man, I’d favour the later

If I were management and my staff went on strike, I would ban overtime as a means for staff to recoup loss of wages - even if my company lost out because of it.

And the trainset will come to a grinding halt, there would be a proliferation of ESR's, switches and crossings clipped out of use, many other faults that are repaired out of hours that would not get done.

NR are reliant on overtime in Signal boxes, Electrical Control Rooms, Maintenance.  The management grades also have a pay claim at the moment there is good will by those grades to continue to work hours extra hours outside their contracted hours like they have done for years but it would not take much for them to work to rule.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 23, 2022, 07:11:37

 Rail Strikes to go ahead next Wednesday.
 RMT could not agree to ticket office closures and driver only operation.
 (there's a surprise).
 Can not see any settlement soon.

I think that's "would not" rather than "could not"!  :)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on July 23, 2022, 07:14:33
As a passenger I would not be happy on a DOO train from Penzance to Paddington.
Need at least a guard, and assistance from catering trolley crew always welcome.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 23, 2022, 07:27:49
As a passenger I would not be happy on a DOO train from Penzance to Paddington.
Need at least a guard, and assistance from catering trolley crew always welcome.

Yes agreed on longer distance routes, but the Luddite attitude to maintaining all the ticket offices is surely untenable.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on July 23, 2022, 07:56:42
Isn't ticket office staffing somewhat outside the RMT's remit? I thought the majority of those staff, who are union members, belong to the TSSA.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on July 23, 2022, 12:06:15
Isn't ticket office staffing somewhat outside the RMT's remit? I thought the majority of those staff, who are union members, belong to the TSSA.

RMT does have members among station staff, and have been conducting specific campaigns against reductions in staffed hours of stations and ticket offices at Scotrail and LNER. There is a category of member for this - Supervisory Clerical and Other Salaried Grades  - though not, I think, separate representation. No doubt the distribution is down to history - like there being RMT drivers in some places. Presumably there will be some fraternal competition for members with TSSA, along the lines of "there are not so many of us but we're more militant than them".


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on July 23, 2022, 12:23:47
RMT put out a press statement today (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-launches-bid-to-save-britains-railway-ticket-offices/) about their "save Britain's railway ticket offices" campaign.
Quote
23 July 2022

RMT Press Office:

RAIL UNION RMT will attempt to stop the closure of all ticket offices on the railway network with a mass campaign across the country.

Almost 1,000 ticket offices are set to close with the loss of thousands of jobs and creating accessibility problems for different types of travellers.

These include the elderly, people with disabilities and foreign visitors who may not have English as their first language.

Elderly and disabled people, and people on low incomes are less likely to have access to the internet and are excluded by the push towards online and electronic ticketing

Without ticket offices and on station support, huge swathes of passengers could be excluded from the railways altogether.

The planned closure of ticket offices is part of a wider industry attack on jobs and services.

Yet in stark contrast, the private rail industry is taking in excess of £500m in profits annually and many rail bosses have £1 million+ pay packets.

The industry is carrying out a consultation in August and is scheduled to start the process of closing offices from October.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "Ticket offices are a vital service on our railways and profit hungry train operating companies simply do not care about the detrimental impact it will have on vulnerable passengers and staff safety.

"We have no problem with genuine modernisation and adapting the way the modern railways work.

"But we will not allow thousands of members to meekly join Britain's dole queues or to accept a version of fire and rehire on inferior terms and conditions.

"We will fight this every step of the way with our national rail strike, and the public can help greatly by putting pressure on their local MP, telling the politicians they must oppose the closures."

Cat Hobbs, We Own It Director, said: “Passengers want ticket offices on our railway, they want a human being they can turn to for help, not just a machine.

“We all need them - from children on their first solo trip, to elderly passengers who don’t have a smartphone to buy a ticket.

“You can’t have Great British Railways if people can’t even ask for the information and support that they need. It is vital that the government scraps the disastrous plan to close nearly 1000 ticket offices - that’s why we’re coming together with the RMT Union in this fight for the very future of our railway.

“Instead of abandoning passengers with a second class service, this government should be making it easy for people to take the train.”

Notes:

The petition - https://www.megaphone.org.uk/petitions/cut-their-profits-not-our-ticket-offices

We are holding a day of action on ticket offices on Tuesday 23rd August 2022 at stations around the country.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 25, 2022, 18:01:42
This has got just over 7,000 signatures - how many ticket staff are there?!!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 25, 2022, 18:07:07
From GWR - echoing the different groups striking on different days.

Quote
Services on strike days will be extremely limited, and on Saturday 30th July there will be no GWR services on most of the network. Where trains are able to run we are expecting them to be very busy, and the last services will be much earlier than normal. There will also be disruption on Thursday 28th July and Sunday 31st July.

On GWR's strike webpage (https://www.gwr.com/strike?utm_source=Nevertransacted&utm_medium=email&utm_term=find_out_more&utm_content=EB1199346&utm_campaign=GWR_RMT_JUL22) for Saturday & Sunday...

Quote
Saturday 30 July
The Aslef strike among GWR train drivers on Saturday 30 July will have an even greater impact, and most parts of the GWR network will have no train service.

An extremely limited service will only operate on the routes below. Services will start later and finish much earlier than normal.
Bristol Temple Meads-London Paddington
Bristol Temple Meads-Cardiff Central
Reading to Oxford
Reading to Basingstoke
No other GWR services will run.

Sunday 31 July
Disruption is likely please check before you travel.

Online timetables should be correct on -

For Saturday, tomorrow 26th
For Sunday, Wednesday 27th

The journeyplanners are already updated for last trains tomorrow, Wednesday & early trains on Thursday.
NOTE - no sleepers on Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Friday night nor Sunday night


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 26, 2022, 07:36:46
Mick Lynch - "We have no problem with genuine modernisation and adapting the way the modern railways work".

OK Mick.

The rail industry actively encourages online ticket purchase and  as far back as 2017 40% of customers were stating that they purchased their tickets always or most frequently online rather than at a ticket counter - this figure is only going to go one way.

.........but insisting that ticket offices are maintained at their current level on pain of National strike action is having "no problem with genuine modernisation".



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 26, 2022, 08:44:03
But always require an extra payment for it. One example. To move from a hole punch ticket check to using a QR code reader. Bit like using a scanner rather than a photocopier in an office. But who got additional payment?

And the TSSA have joined the RMT in striking at 7 TOCs, including GWR,  on August 18 & 20.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 26, 2022, 10:54:16
But always require an extra payment for it. One example. To move from a hole punch ticket check to using a QR code reader. Bit like using a scanner rather than a photocopier in an office. But who got additional payment?

And the TSSA have joined the RMT in striking at 7 TOCs, including GWR,  on August 18 & 20.

Seriously? A pay rise was demanded for "clipping" a ticket in a different way?

Beyond parody.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 26, 2022, 11:18:55
Yep, seriously!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Sleepy on July 26, 2022, 23:22:51
Yes, if the ASLEF strike goes ahead, the service is likely to be extremely limited for the affected operators…far more do than the RMT action.

Given the ASLEF strike is on a Saturday, Sunday could go one of two ways….
Either they’ll all volunteer to work to recoup their losses OR they could decide to have a weekend off.  If I was a betting man, I’d favour the later

If I were management and my staff went on strike, I would ban overtime as a means for staff to recoup loss of wages - even if my company lost out because of it.

If overtime was banned the service would be in chaos on non-strike days, most TOC are seriously short of drivers following limited/no training during Covid.
Grant Scapps made such a comment at the start of the strikes - would imagine RDG were horrified and straight on the phone to DfT !!!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on July 27, 2022, 06:45:41
Not got off to a good start for anyone travelling to or from Plymouth today with all services starting and terminating at Exeter due to no contingency signallers.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: RichardB on July 27, 2022, 09:38:41
Not got off to a good start for anyone travelling to or from Plymouth today with all services starting and terminating at Exeter due to no contingency signallers.

This was expected.  There was an e-mail to stakeholders from GWR yesterday. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on July 27, 2022, 10:57:25
Mick Lynch - "We have no problem with genuine modernisation and adapting the way the modern railways work".

OK Mick.

The rail industry actively encourages online ticket purchase and  as far back as 2017 40% of customers were stating that they purchased their tickets always or most frequently online rather than at a ticket counter - this figure is only going to go one way.

.........but insisting that ticket offices are maintained at their current level on pain of National strike action is having "no problem with genuine modernisation".



You would be surprised at the number of customers at ticket offices wanting to change their online or TVM purchases because they purchased the wrong ticket or the ticket they wanted was not offered to them.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on July 27, 2022, 11:37:27
Not got off to a good start for anyone travelling to or from Plymouth today with all services starting and terminating at Exeter due to no contingency signallers.

This was expected.  There was an e-mail to stakeholders from GWR yesterday. 

I wonder why they are turning them at Exeter and not running at least some to Newton Abbot or even Totnes. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on July 27, 2022, 12:10:44
It's an ill wind ... Q: What can you do on a strike day more easily than a normal one? A: drag an IET with a seized axle from Reading to North Pole very slowly. Very, very, very, slowly.

8Z20 was planned (presumably for overnight, but with no strike) to take 6 hours 20 minutes for what is only 35 miles. That did allow for a stop in every loop, and at Maidenhead. That's the only one it's so far reached, and its stop there was less than allowed (presumably to check the wheel skates were surviving).

It was due to pass Slough after 121 minutes, but was 101 minutes down by then! Fortunately it doesn't matter too much today: even the Elizabeth Line trains can swap to the Main line in some places. I see it's now sneaked into the siding at Langley for its next little rest.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 27, 2022, 13:31:21
Not got off to a good start for anyone travelling to or from Plymouth today with all services starting and terminating at Exeter due to no contingency signallers.

This was expected.  There was an e-mail to stakeholders from GWR yesterday. 

How far west does the Exeter box cover? That may answer your query

I wonder why they are turning them at Exeter and not running at least some to Newton Abbot or even Totnes. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on July 27, 2022, 13:36:37
How far west does the Exeter box cover? That may answer your query

Exeter's first signal on the Up is the entrance to Totnes loop and the last on the Down the first after the loop at the station.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 27, 2022, 13:44:12
It's an ill wind ... Q: What can you do on a strike day more easily than a normal one? A: drag an IET with a seized axle from Reading to North Pole very slowly. Very, very, very, slowly.

At 5mph I expect.  As you say, such moves are normally carried out in the dead of night, but the 'dead of day' today is nearly as good!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 27, 2022, 13:45:39
How far west does the Exeter box cover? That may answer your query

Exeter's first signal on the Up is the entrance to Totnes loop and the last on the Down the first after the loop at the station.

How many work stations in Exeter box? Maybe that they can’t cover every one ir can inly cover just the one for EXD and north thereof?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 27, 2022, 17:20:02
And now ASLEF have announced another for Saturday 13 August. Detail in the appropriate thread.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on July 27, 2022, 17:25:12
It's an ill wind ... Q: What can you do on a strike day more easily than a normal one? A: drag an IET with a seized axle from Reading to North Pole very slowly. Very, very, very, slowly.

At 5mph I expect.  As you say, such moves are normally carried out in the dead of night, but the 'dead of day' today is nearly as good!

In average speed, well under 5 mph! It just got in, having taken over 9 hours.

The planned path involved crossing to Line 3 at Ladbroke Grove, then to Line 1 to enter Royal Oak Sidings to reverse. In the end it reversed in Line 3, saving nearly an hour. I'm guessing there was a loco each end, rather than running round and un/coupling in Line 3, even today.

It's notable how much of the journey can be done in loops and sidings, even if it skipped the "No 1 Loop" at Hanwell/West Ealing (Plassers).


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on July 27, 2022, 17:43:21
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62325842

Quote
Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has sacked his junior shadow transport minister who joined striking rail workers on a picket line.

Ilford South MP Sam Tarry attended the protest at London's Euston station despite Sir Keir saying his frontbench MPs should stay away.

Speaking to reporters, Mr Tarry said "any Labour MP" would have "absolute solidarity with striking workers".

Labour said he had been fired for making unauthorised media appearances.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 27, 2022, 18:35:42
It's notable how much of the journey can be done in loops and sidings, even if it skipped the "No 1 Loop" at Hanwell/West Ealing (Plassers).

Yeah, the only really long gap is between Reading and Maidenhead.  There used to be a goods loop at Ruscombe, east of Twyford, but it was taken out in the mid-2000s as it was too short to be of much use (though it would have been potentially of use today).


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on July 27, 2022, 19:35:32
Not got off to a good start for anyone travelling to or from Plymouth today with all services starting and terminating at Exeter due to no contingency signallers.

This was expected.  There was an e-mail to stakeholders from GWR yesterday. 

I wonder why they are turning them at Exeter and not running at least some to Newton Abbot or even Totnes. 

I suspect it will come down to the number of contingent signallers that have been signed off for the area and any signallers that turned up for work.   Contingent signallers and Electrical Control Room Operators still have to be signed off as competent for the area, this means them taking time out of their normal duties to undertake training and assessments.  I don't know what the requirement for contingent signallers is but the contingent Electrical Control Room Operator is 2 or 3 days every six months.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on July 28, 2022, 12:40:14
Pleased to see Castle Cary, Westbury and Pewsey stops being added to some of the fast SW services as the semi fasts aren't running today which had left these three stations with a couple of trains in each direction to and from London today.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 28, 2022, 13:57:06
All cancelled due to "short notice changes to the timetable (I'm guessing strike related?

16:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:13

17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 21:25

18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:09

Could get cosy later, especially factoring in those who took the advice not to travel yesterday.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Ollie on July 28, 2022, 22:25:28
It's an ill wind ... Q: What can you do on a strike day more easily than a normal one? A: drag an IET with a seized axle from Reading to North Pole very slowly. Very, very, very, slowly.

At 5mph I expect.  As you say, such moves are normally carried out in the dead of night, but the 'dead of day' today is nearly as good!

In average speed, well under 5 mph! It just got in, having taken over 9 hours.

The planned path involved crossing to Line 3 at Ladbroke Grove, then to Line 1 to enter Royal Oak Sidings to reverse. In the end it reversed in Line 3, saving nearly an hour. I'm guessing there was a loco each end, rather than running round and un/coupling in Line 3, even today.

It's notable how much of the journey can be done in loops and sidings, even if it skipped the "No 1 Loop" at Hanwell/West Ealing (Plassers).
No loco required, it ran under its own power.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: REVUpminster on July 29, 2022, 19:06:47
There's a tour train Saturday from Kettering due into Paignton and Kingswear that's expected to run as it's only the drivers on strike.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 17, 2022, 08:41:44
Isn't ticket office staffing somewhat outside the RMT's remit? I thought the majority of those staff, who are union members, belong to the TSSA.

RMT does have members among station staff, and have been conducting specific campaigns against reductions in staffed hours of stations and ticket offices at Scotrail and LNER. There is a category of member for this - Supervisory Clerical and Other Salaried Grades  - though not, I think, separate representation. No doubt the distribution is down to history - like there being RMT drivers in some places. Presumably there will be some fraternal competition for members with TSSA, along the lines of "there are not so many of us but we're more militant than them".

Came back from a few days in Plymouth yesterday afternoon - got to the station very early as a monsoon was forecast and the delights of Cornwall St in the rain are somewhat limited.

As I had 40 minutes or so to kill, I thought I'd see how much business the ticket office did - well, the answer was not much - I saw all of 3 customers approach the windows (4 of which were open), whilst others clearly had already obtained their tickets via other means or used the TVMs.

Fully expect a number of "Yeah buts" in reply, however it's telling given that this is one of the largest ticket offices in the South West.

Photo taken about 1445.

(Journey itself was pretty good - train was on time and very quiet, I was the only customer in coach L until Taunton and the TM gave me a beer!)  :)



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 18, 2022, 16:51:27
Had to make a trip to get my glasses fixed this morning - can't drive without them so took a chance on the train - Elizabeth Line running fine mid morning and pretty quiet, small group of RMT pickets outside Slough station with a rather bedraggled RMT banner tied to a lamppost, very good natured, arseing about in the sunshine rather than bothering anyone.

I notice Bruvver Lynch is now threatening that the strike action could go on "indefinitely" but I wonder if it is really having much of an impact other than inconvenience?

There's certainly no sense of London (for example) being "held to ransom" or grinding to a halt like the old days when the ability to do that gave the RMT much more leverage.

Certainly from West and East the Elizabeth Line is providing an alternative in key corridors (albeit slower), far fewer people are travelling to work these days (or at least are not obliged to thanks to home/hybrid working) and it's peak holiday season. The odd day here and there makes little difference - apart from the likes of key workers such as nurses of course.

This leaves leisure travellers to upset for many of whom rail travel is an option rather than a necessity, and as the holiday period comes to an end, this will naturally reduce anyway.

All of which makes me wonder - are the Rail Companies and the Government going to tough this one out?

Chap from Network Rail impressed on the BBC this morning and reiterated that the offer of 8% over two years and no compulsory redundancies has been made but the RMT refused to put it to their members.

I guess the question is, will Mick have the cojones to go for an "all out" or more protracted strike if there is no further movement, and/or we remain at "minor inconvenience" level?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on August 18, 2022, 17:40:51
Chap from Network Rail impressed on the BBC this morning and reiterated that the offer of 8% over two years and no compulsory redundancies has been made but the RMT refused to put it to their members.

I would be very interested in seeing the small print of that "offer" before I made a judgement.  For example I have seen some information that one offer (not sure which company so not necessarily NR) reduced the payment terms for Sunday and rest day working so that though the headline looked good it was in fact a pay cut!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on August 18, 2022, 18:00:17
If Sundays became part of the working week, I'd sort of expect that to be paid at the daily rate going forward, rather than at overtime rate, yes. Not everyone does Sundays/obliged to do Sundays, so an overall salary increase to make up for any 'loss' may not be appropriate.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on August 18, 2022, 21:41:11
Bear in mind the chap from Network Rail had a £50k pay rise in April from £540k to over £590k
I don't expect he'll be sweating over "heat or eat" this winter


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on August 18, 2022, 22:30:59
Bear in mind the chap from Network Rail had a £50k pay rise in April from £540k to over £590k
I don't expect he'll be sweating over "heat or eat" this winter

Yes, Andrew Haines will get by this winter, and he's had a pay rise this year when his employees haven't (yet), but it's important that the figures quoted are accurate.

6.5%. £557,000 to £593,000 including BiK. £36,000 increase. Less than the 8% the RMT is turning down 'on behalf' of their members. Arguably its an annual net increase of 0% as he took a four month 20% pay cut in 2020/2021. Meaning he earnt nearly the same in 2021/2022 as he did in 2019/2020. You could say that's a two year pay freeze - just like his employees.

Of course, the media will only report the headline salary and/or round up figures. Ive seen £600,000 mentioned and increase this year of £50,000. Both wrong.

He's also earning 22% less than his predecessor Mark Carne who earned £759,000 in his last full year as CEO. Go back to Ian Coucher in 2010 and he was earning £1.4m!

Is Andrew Haines worth £593,000 as CEO? I've no idea. He presided over revenue of £9.5bn in 2021/2022. It's very likely that a private sector Chief Exec of a company earning nearly £10bn would be paid considerably more.

Network Rail 2021/2022 remuneration report:
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Directors-remuneration-committee-report-2022.pdf


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on August 19, 2022, 06:42:04
If Sundays became part of the working week, I'd sort of expect that to be paid at the daily rate going forward, rather than at overtime rate, yes. Not everyone does Sundays/obliged to do Sundays, so an overall salary increase to make up for any 'loss' may not be appropriate.

Yes that would be the case, however the rail industry relies on overtime being worked.  Therefore, if there is a 7 day roster instead of a 5 or 6 day roster as is the current practice, rest day working will be inevitable which will have enhanced rate of pay to induce people to give up their day off.

It is also worth noting Rail workers legally have to have a 12 hours rest between shifts a max working shift of 14 hours including travelling time form their place of rest and where they book on; also Rail workers can only work 13 shifts and then are required to have a day off.  If you wish to understand why please read the Anthon Hidden QC report into the events leading up to 8:10 a.m. on the morning of Monday, 12 December 1988, at Clapham


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on August 19, 2022, 08:04:54
It is also worth noting Rail workers legally have to have a 12 hours rest between shifts a max working shift of 14 hours including travelling time form their place of rest and where they book on; also Rail workers can only work 13 shifts and then are required to have a day off.  If you wish to understand why please read the Anthon Hidden QC report into the events leading up to 8:10 a.m. on the morning of Monday, 12 December 1988, at Clapham

Hidden was never elevated to statutory status.  His recommendations were adopted but are not actually legal.  Sunsequently we hoty The Railways and Other Guided Transport Systems (Safety) Regulations 2006 (18 years later!) specifically section

25.—(1) Every controller of safety critical work shall have in place arrangements to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that a safety critical worker under his management, supervision or control does not carry out safety critical work in circumstances where he is so fatigued or where he would be liable to become so fatigued that his health or safety or the health or safety of other persons on a transport system could be significantly affected.

Note that no times are actually given because such were covered by the Working Time Regulations 1998 (10 years later).  This is why government spokes persons are able to attack the railway's 'Victorian working practices' and 'loss of productive time'.

It is perfectly "fine" to break Hidden and in several accidents in recent years have the RAIB have noted that where fatigue has been a factor, there is collective industrial memory fade since 1988.

The unions are arguing that the biggest memory fade is coming from the government.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: the void on August 19, 2022, 08:13:35
If Sundays became part of the working week, I'd sort of expect that to be paid at the daily rate going forward, rather than at overtime rate, yes. Not everyone does Sundays/obliged to do Sundays, so an overall salary increase to make up for any 'loss' may not be appropriate.

From Industrial Action FAQs issued this week by Richard Rowland:


"Sunday working

We want to make Sunday services more attractive for customers. The aim is to ensure coverage by establishing a commitment by colleagues to working on some – not all - Sundays. This will mean that cover for shifts is guaranteed, and train companies can plan more robust, reliable train services.

Enhanced overtime pay protected and opt-out options for current staff that want them and opportunities for additional earning opportunities will be maintained. These arrangements already exist in some places on the network, so this is about turning a patchwork of agreements into something more aligned across the industry.

More reliable Sunday services will help meet the growing demand from customers for leisure travel – Sunday is the one day of the week that is consistently seeing more customers travelling than they did pre-pandemic across the industry. Vital to the long term growth of the industry."

So no plans to remove enhanced pay for working on Sunday, just the ability to roster staff to work on Sundays, rather than having to rely on volunteers.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on August 19, 2022, 08:28:41
I wonder what sort number if Sundays are thought to be required? But yes, a reasonable suggestion


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on August 19, 2022, 09:27:56
Enhanced overtime pay protected and opt-out options for current staff that want them and opportunities for additional earning opportunities will be maintained. These arrangements already exist in some places on the network, so this is about turning a patchwork of agreements into something more aligned across the industry.

Good.  I am aware that this is not one dispute but many.  Are they all seeking similar changes or is each one bespoke?  The claim I saw did not abolish enhanced pay on Sundays, but reduced it. So I still remain cautious about small print. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on August 19, 2022, 10:47:02
GWR drivers already have a commitment to work Sundays.

HSS drivers don’t have that commitment.

I’m not sure wether it’s a commitment to work rostered Sundays or a commitment to work so many Sundays in a year.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on August 19, 2022, 10:50:50
That may well be why GWR are suggesting

Quote
We want to make Sunday services more attractive for customers. The aim is to ensure coverage by establishing a commitment by colleagues to working on some – not all - Sundays.

To bring HSS in line with those that have a commitment. What is that commitment in terms of the number of Sundays?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on August 19, 2022, 11:13:20
No trains to BRI during tomorrow's strike - a change to previous strikes

Quote
Dear Chris
 
A very quick update and reminder on the RMT and TSSA strikes. 
 
We were able to operate our contingency timetable yesterday (Thursday 18 August) without any additional changes, albeit that in some areas we were not able to run any services at all.  There is a Transport for London strike today, but the majority of GWR rail services are running normally.
 
As we mentioned previously there is a further rail strike tomorrow Saturday (20 August). This will mean a heavily reduced timetable with no services in many areas, including Bristol Temple Meads where contingency signallers are not available this Saturday. This is different to previous strike days.
 
Our message to customers remains to only travel if absolutely necessary, and to make alternative arrangements if they can.  If there are services operating, we want customers to double check timetables before setting out – including return journeys as services will be finishing much early than usual.
 
The strike will also impact some services on Sunday (21 August).  Details are on our dedicated strike page on www.gwr.com/strike
 
No further rail strike dates have been announced by either RMT, ASLEF or TSSA.  They would need to give at least two weeks notice and we will keep you fully updated.
 
As always if you have any questions for us, please do get in contact, we are happy to help.
 
Jane and Toby
 

Jane Jones
Head of Public Affairs, Great Western Railway
 
Toby Elliott
Head of Communications, Network Rail Western


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 19, 2022, 11:51:37
That may well be why GWR are suggesting

Quote
We want to make Sunday services more attractive for customers. The aim is to ensure coverage by establishing a commitment by colleagues to working on some – not all - Sundays.

To bring HSS in line with those that have a commitment. What is that commitment in terms of the number of Sundays?

Currently around 1 in 3 Sundays for the GWR drivers with the ‘committed Sunday’ agreement. 

I’d have thought any new agreement would be at the most at similar level to Saturdays which is 2 in 3, though possibly something like 1 in 2 or even 2 in 5 would be enough for what is likely to operate on Sunday’s.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on August 19, 2022, 11:57:05
That may well be why GWR are suggesting

Quote
We want to make Sunday services more attractive for customers. The aim is to ensure coverage by establishing a commitment by colleagues to working on some – not all - Sundays.

To bring HSS in line with those that have a commitment. What is that commitment in terms of the number of Sundays?

I don’t know what the commitment is in terms of the number of Sundays.

There’s little point in trying to bring HSS in line with GWR drivers purely because there are now so few HSS drivers and the number will only continue to dwindle.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 19, 2022, 12:23:23
There’s little point in trying to bring HSS in line with GWR drivers purely because there are now so few HSS drivers and the number will only continue to dwindle.

I think there’s still over 400 HSS drivers, so still plenty.  As you say, numbers are diminishing, but still many years of shortages if just left to natural wastage.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on August 19, 2022, 13:17:59
There’s little point in trying to bring HSS in line with GWR drivers purely because there are now so few HSS drivers and the number will only continue to dwindle.

I think there’s still over 400 HSS drivers, so still plenty.  As you say, numbers are diminishing, but still many years of shortages if just left to natural wastage.

But put into perspective, there’s nearly 250 GWR drivers at Exeter alone.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 19, 2022, 14:26:39
Exeter GWR has around 150 I think you’ll find


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 19, 2022, 18:10:17
Exeter GWR has around 150 I think you’ll find

Just to give an idea of driver numbers at each depot:

Bristol - HSS 66   GWR 118
Bristol Parkway - HSS 41  GWR 6
Cardiff - GWR 15
Exeter - HSS 43   GWR 150
Fratton - GWR 34
Gloucester - GWR 60
Oxford - GWR 83
Paddington - HSS 78   GWR 73   
Par - GWR 33
Penzance - HSS 30   GWR 47
Plymouth - HSS 55   GWR 30
Reading - GWR 220
Swansea - HSS 65   GWR 5
Westbury - GWR 65
Worcester - HSS 25   GWR 14

Totals:  HSS 403    GWR 953

So, 30% HSS and 70% GWR - a little more biased towards GWR than I was expecting, but they can have a disproportionate affect on the longer distance routes that seem to struggle the most on Sundays.  You can't cover much of a Paddington<>Penzance service with crews from the GWR exclusive deports of Oxford, Reading, Fratton or Gloucester for example.

In terms of how quickly HSS drivers will move to GWR or retire remains to be seen.  I guess if I do this calculation same time next year, we'll get an idea as to how quickly numbers are shifting?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 19, 2022, 21:12:40
Exeter GWR has around 150 I think you’ll find

Just to give an idea of driver numbers at each depot:

Bristol - HSS 66   GWR 118
Bristol Parkway - HSS 41  GWR 6
Cardiff - GWR 15
Exeter - HSS 43   GWR 150
Fratton - GWR 34
Gloucester - GWR 60
Oxford - GWR 83
Paddington - HSS 78   GWR 73   
Par - GWR 33
Penzance - HSS 30   GWR 47
Plymouth - HSS 55   GWR 30
Reading - GWR 220
Swansea - HSS 65   GWR 5
Westbury - GWR 65
Worcester - HSS 25   GWR 14

Totals:  HSS 403    GWR 953

So, 30% HSS and 70% GWR - a little more biased towards GWR than I was expecting, but they can have a disproportionate affect on the longer distance routes that seem to struggle the most on Sundays.  You can't cover much of a Paddington<>Penzance service with crews from the GWR exclusive deports of Oxford, Reading, Fratton or Gloucester for example.

In terms of how quickly HSS drivers will move to GWR or retire remains to be seen.  I guess if I do this calculation same time next year, we'll get an idea as to how quickly numbers are shifting?


I do seem to recall a few years back certain correspondents were telling us that there were a lot of new recruits going through driver training who had Sundays as part of the working week and so this problem would naturally disappear.........what has happened to them?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on August 20, 2022, 06:35:20
Exeter GWR has around 150 I think you’ll find

Just to give an idea of driver numbers at each depot:

Bristol - HSS 66   GWR 118
Bristol Parkway - HSS 41  GWR 6
Cardiff - GWR 15
Exeter - HSS 43   GWR 150
Fratton - GWR 34
Gloucester - GWR 60
Oxford - GWR 83
Paddington - HSS 78   GWR 73   
Par - GWR 33
Penzance - HSS 30   GWR 47
Plymouth - HSS 55   GWR 30
Reading - GWR 220
Swansea - HSS 65   GWR 5
Westbury - GWR 65
Worcester - HSS 25   GWR 14

Totals:  HSS 403    GWR 953

So, 30% HSS and 70% GWR - a little more biased towards GWR than I was expecting, but they can have a disproportionate affect on the longer distance routes that seem to struggle the most on Sundays.  You can't cover much of a Paddington<>Penzance service with crews from the GWR exclusive deports of Oxford, Reading, Fratton or Gloucester for example.

In terms of how quickly HSS drivers will move to GWR or retire remains to be seen.  I guess if I do this calculation same time next year, we'll get an idea as to how quickly numbers are shifting?


Although I suspect the retirement / transfer rate is not a linear one.

Network Rail has a similar issue with a large number of maintenance staff on old RT IMC (Railtrack Infrastructure Maintenance Companies) AMec, Balfour Beaty, Amey GTRM / Carillion.  One of the conditions of the pay offer by NR is to use one contract for people to be moved onto it on promotion or voluntarily, the contract that is being proposed is one of the former RT IMC contracts it just so happens it's the one with worst conditions


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 20, 2022, 09:12:33
I do seem to recall a few years back certain correspondents were telling us that there were a lot of new recruits going through driver training who had Sundays as part of the working week and so this problem would naturally disappear.........what has happened to them?

Are you asking what’s happened to the trainees, or the correspondents?  ;)

All new trainees since 2017 (IIRC) have been GWR grade, meaning Sundays are ‘committed overtime’ which is different to being part of the working week as explained before.

I remember Broadgage suggesting that would solve the Sunday problem and myself being very cautious about how long it would take to make a tangible difference, and stick by that statement.

Lots of trainees have passed out, not helped by COVID of course, but look at Worcester for example which was 30 HSS and 0 LTV two years ago and it’s now 25/14. 

Many more are still going through training, but that 403 HSS figure won’t disappear overnight…hence me suggesting I take a look this time next year to see how it has changed.

A settlement from the industrial dispute might render that irrelevant in terms of Sunday working, but I personally doubt it.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on August 21, 2022, 09:09:19
The 403 HSS drivers will only reduce through natural wastage, very few will opt to transfer over to the GWR grade. 

When you look at it though, across the entire business, you’ll never currently need more than 175 to 200 HSS drivers on a Sunday and with the next recruit drive for drivers to be launched next year you’ll have a pool of more GWR drivers to cover HSS Sunday work on overtime.
To get Sundays in the working week would require substantially more drivers which is why companies and the DfT prefer the commitment to work instead.  Sunday’s to HSS drivers who work them are worth, in the region of £8,000 a year. There’s very little business sense in offering a pay rise of £5,000+ to HSS drivers to include Sunday’s.  IndustryInsider may be able to confirm as I’m not sure, but any pay rise to HSS drivers has to be given to GWR drivers as well?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 22, 2022, 10:25:25
The 403 HSS drivers will only reduce through natural wastage, very few will opt to transfer over to the GWR grade. 

Indeed, no more than a handful have so far across the business AIUI.

In time there might be a tipping point reached where the number of HSS drivers will diminish such that the company could starve them of the more attractive shifts and routes and that means the end will happen quite quickly, but I can see that being at least five, maybe ten years into the future.

IndustryInsider may be able to confirm as I’m not sure, but any pay rise to HSS drivers has to be given to GWR drivers as well?

Yes, AIUI.  Parity on pay for HSS, LTV and West drivers was achieved in early 2020 after several yearly stages (with LTV and West combining to become GWR), and I don't think HSS can then leap ahead again.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on August 22, 2022, 10:49:21
In time there might be a tipping point reached where the number of HSS drivers will diminish such that the company could starve them of the more attractive shifts and routes and that means the end will happen quite quickly, but I can see that being at least five, maybe ten years into the future.

... by which time GBR will have brought in ... what? The original Williams-Shapps plan was keen on industry-wide career and training structures, but very woolly about what operators' contracts would contain and how it would get there. I've not seen anything clearer yet, but no doubt the unions are taking a close interest in this subject.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 22, 2022, 11:02:29
Exactly.  Far too far in advance to know for sure.  I don’t expect the summer Sunday situation to improve much for at least three years though sadly.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on August 22, 2022, 11:46:15
Exactly.  Far too far in advance to know for sure.  I don’t expect the summer Sunday situation to improve much for at least three years though sadly.
Which begs the question why won't GWR produce a realistic summer Sunday timetable that can be achieved instead of having to cancel services every Sunday?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 22, 2022, 11:56:27
Good question.

Because that would be admitting defeat?  Or in breach of their contract?  Or the DfT won’t allow them?  Or because they have a more optimistic view than I have? 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 22, 2022, 12:42:19
Exactly.  Far too far in advance to know for sure.  I don’t expect the summer Sunday situation to improve much for at least three years though sadly.

Frankly an appalling prospect, and bodes ill for the future of a railway which will rely increasingly on leisure travel to sustain viability on many routes.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 22, 2022, 13:44:47
Exactly.  Far too far in advance to know for sure.  I don’t expect the summer Sunday situation to improve much for at least three years though sadly.

Frankly an appalling prospect, and bodes ill for the future of a railway which will rely increasingly on leisure travel to sustain viability on many routes.

I agree.  Make sure you take every opportunity to put that point of view across to the DfT/GWR.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on August 22, 2022, 16:12:19
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62634795 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62634795)


With Citi forecasting inflation to hit over 18% next year I think the chances of settling this dispute is diminishing very quickly.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on August 22, 2022, 16:14:35
That's next year's settlement (if it does get that high)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on August 22, 2022, 16:19:16
That's next year's settlement (if it does get that high)

I did say next year!  But when the likes of Network Rail are offering multi-year pay deals (the current being being 8% over two or three years) shows this is some way off being settled. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 22, 2022, 16:34:57
I’ve always been wary of multi-year settlements, and in the current climate I don’t see any point in them at all.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on August 22, 2022, 16:42:46
I’ve always been wary of multi-year settlements, and in the current climate I don’t see any point in them at all.

Absolutely. Sort a one year deal out based on the months RPI we usually use (Feb or March) and then start discussing a framework for next year. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on August 22, 2022, 17:40:52
There have been multi-year deals - TFL have just finished one. It was based I believe on RPI%+0.25%


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on August 22, 2022, 18:19:54
There have been multi-year deals - TFL have just finished one. It was based I believe on RPI%+0.25%

While inflation was below 2% employers were content with these types of deals over multiple years, if the NR were to offer the RMT RPI plus 0.25%  I suspect the RMT would be more inclined to accept it as the pay award part of the talks; threat of redundancies is a different and very difficult circle to square


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Marlburian on October 05, 2022, 12:12:17
My Polish friend is flying back to London on Sunday, so I checked on the trains from Stansted and discovered there was a replacement bus service to Waltham Cross, where she could then get a train. Turns out to be "planned engineering works". She was going to book a seat on National Express, then looked again at her air ticket and saw it was for Luton.The trains there to London look OK.

And I've previously posted about her travelling from Waterloo to Reading, then back to Paddington. She's back in London over the next few days and is very nonchalant about the various strikes. She reckons that today she'll catch a National Express bus from Stansted to London, where's she staying in Queensway, close to Paddington, so convenient for a Reading train. Only there's a very limited service. Now she's talking of travelling from Waterloo: "it was such a great journey last time - very much enjoyed it - train was great too".

Over the years, the only advantage of taking the Waterloo train rather than a Paddington one, was a change of scenery.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Ollie on October 15, 2022, 02:02:43
Not related to the pay dispute, however is an RMT strike, so...

RMT has instructed all its members employed as Crossing Keepers, Electrical Control Room Operators, Shift Signaller Managers and Signallers at Didcot Thames Valley Signalling Centre to not book on for any shifts that commence between:

00:01 to 23:59 hours on Saturday 5th November 2022
00:01 to 23:59 hours on Monday 7th November 2022

This dispute is in relation to the dismissal of a signaller.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: infoman on October 15, 2022, 04:02:40
May I ask what the dismissal was for?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 15, 2022, 07:45:35
Not related to the pay dispute, however is an RMT strike, so...

RMT has instructed all its members employed as Crossing Keepers, Electrical Control Room Operators, Shift Signaller Managers and Signallers at Didcot Thames Valley Signalling Centre to not book on for any shifts that commence between:

00:01 to 23:59 hours on Saturday 5th November 2022
00:01 to 23:59 hours on Monday 7th November 2022

This dispute is in relation to the dismissal of a signaller.


In practical terms, what will that mean for services between Reading- Plymouth/Penzance on those dates?

I have a journey which I need to make as a mercy mission on the 7th, I had considered making it by train but it sounds like I may need to consider my options.

Thanks for any advice


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Ollie on October 15, 2022, 13:36:00
May I ask what the dismissal was for?

I've not been able to find that part yet. If I do, I shall update.

 

In practical terms, what will that mean for services between Reading- Plymouth/Penzance on those dates?

I have a journey which I need to make as a mercy mission on the 7th, I had considered making it by train but it sounds like I may need to consider my options.

Thanks for any advice

Probably a bit early to say, RMT gave the dates yesterday, so it'll be for Network Rail to now work out what desks in TVSC they think they can cover and for how long.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 18, 2022, 18:24:46
RMT just announced strikes on 3/5/7 November


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on October 18, 2022, 19:16:33
RMT just announced strikes on 3/5/7 November

A friend who is a RMT member has just received this...

Quote
18 October 2022
 
To: Branches, Regional Councils & Regional Offices
 
NETWORK RAIL MEMBERS TO TAKE FRESH STRIKE ACTION
 
Dear colleague
 
DEFEND JOBS, PAY & CONDITIONS – NETWORK RAIL
 
Talks between your union and Network Rail have resulted in management causing confusion and disarray after doing a U-Turn on a new pay offer and through a vindictive style of negotiations and threats to impose new working arrangements on RMT members.
 
Some managers are advising us formally that they are seeking to reach a negotiated settlement to this dispute while other managers are issuing threatening correspondence which do nothing to reach a settlement and instead set out the company’s clear intention to steamroller through their so-called “modernising” agenda without agreement.
 
This disingenuous method of negotiations cannot be tolerated any longer. Your union’s National Executive Committee has therefore today taken the decision to hold a further series of strikes.
 
All Network Rail members in the Maintenance function are instructed not to book on for any duties which commence between:
 
02:00 hours on Thursday 3rd November 2022 and 01:59 hours on Friday 4th November 2022
02:00 hours on Saturday 5th November 2022 and 01:59 hours on Sunday 6th November 2022
02:00 hours on Monday 7th November 2022 and 01:59 hours on Tuesday 8th November 2022
 
In addition, those in the Maintenance function are instructed not to work any overtime or rest days between:
 
02:00 hours on Wednesday 2nd November 2022 and 01:59 hours on Thursday 3rd November 2022
02:00 hours on Friday 4th November 2022 and 01:59 hours Saturday 5th November 2022
02:00 hours on Sunday 6th November 2022 and 01:59 hours on Monday 7th November 2022
02:00 hours on Tuesday 8th November 2022 and 01:59 hours on Wednesday 9th November 2022
 
All Network Rail members in the Operations function are instructed not to book on for any duties which commence between:
 
00:01 and 23:59 Hours on Thursday 3rd November 2022
00:01 and 23:59 Hours on Saturday 5th November 2022
00:01 and 23:59 Hours on Monday 7th November 2022
 
The company has left us no choice but to take this action following the Joint Pay Council of both Ops and Maintenance last Friday which was adjourned at the request of the Management Side to facilitate a full response to the positions put forward by your representatives.
One important position was that RMT formally requested confirmation that the company would not seek to impose any changes to members’ terms and conditions of employment or working practices which are material to the proposals being discussed.
This was in line with the stated company commitment to seek a negotiated settlement, therefore we requested that the company defer commencing local consultation on matters subject to these discussions and also defer the opening of voluntary severance for the same reasons.
 
Immediately following this meeting - and prior to us reconvening negotiations – I received correspondence from a manager who was not in attendance at the discussions confirming the company will move to impose matters supposedly still in the discussion and on which the Chair of Joint Council stated the company is actively seeking our agreement.
 
This correspondence also refers to members’ contractual terms and conditions of employment as “working practices” – despite our negotiating team advising that any move to impose changes to these would result in both an immediate industrial response and a legal challenge.
 
When clarification was sought from the Chair of the Joint Council we were advised:
 
“I want to confirm our commitment given at joint pay council on Friday that we wish to continue looking for a negotiated settlement to the dispute….”
 
Network Rail’s management is clearly divided and in disarray. It commits to negotiations and imposition at the same time. It offers to discuss an improved pay offer while reviving a rejected offer. We have no choice therefore but to respond industrially.
 
I have absolutely no doubt that RMT members at Network Rail will respond to this industrial action instruction in the same united, dignified and solid way they have responded to all strike calls up to now.
 
We simply cannot allow management to continue negotiating in such a chaotic manner, but we can assure members that this union is willing to talk and negotiate properly and formally.
 
STRIKE FOR PAY JUSTICE!
DEFEND YOUR TERMS AND CONDITIONS!
 
Yours sincerely

Michael Lynch
General Secretary


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on October 18, 2022, 19:31:50
The strike day on the 3rd includes the London Underground & Overground


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on October 19, 2022, 17:01:56
I believe it's just been announced the RMT staff at the TOCs are also out on the 3rd & 5th


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on October 19, 2022, 17:06:55
From the RMT website (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-launch-strikes-on-train-operating-companies-in-national/)


Quote
19 October 2022

RMT Press Office:

Rail union RMT will take strike action on 14 train operating companies on November 3 and 5 after no new offer on pay jobs and working conditions.

Strike action will coincide with RMT members on Network Rail, London Underground and Overground who are also walking out.

Despite repeated negotiations, the Rail Delivery Group has failed to offer RMT members any offer on pay, jobs and conditions.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "Throughout this whole dispute, the Rail Delivery Group has been completely unreasonable by not offering our members any deal on pay, conditions and job security.

"Some of our members on the train operating companies are some of the lowest paid on the railways.

"This stands in stark contrast to rail operating company bosses making millions of pounds in profit.

"We remain open to meaningful talks, but we are steadfast in our industrial campaign to see a negotiated settlement for all our members in this dispute."

I thought that there were 15 TOCs that the RMT had strike action ballot approval - has one expired?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on October 20, 2022, 17:21:49
It appears that TSSA are taking 'Action Short of a Strike' on the days RMT are striking.....

Quote
Given the lack of movement in negotiations within the Train Operating Companies. TSSA is announcing additional action short of strike for all our members in Great Western Railways (GWR).

Our reps met this week and decided to escalate our Action Short of Strike (ASOS) by adding an additional type of ASOS to the list than we have previously employed. We are announcing this today given the anti-trade union legislation that requires us to give 14 days’ notice of any industrial action.

We have therefore written to the company today to give notice that we are calling members to participate in:
 
•   Ban on on-call activities including ban on covering vacant on-call lines
This will take place over the following times and dates:

From 00:01 on Thursday 3rd November 2022 to 23:59 on Thursday 3rd November 2022

From 00:01 on Saturday 5th November 2022 to 23:59 on Saturday 5th November 2022

During the period of dispute TSSA members can legitimately refuse to:
 
•   Carry out on call duties whether their own or vacant colleagues during the times and dates above which coincide with the strike action planned by our Sister unions.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on October 21, 2022, 07:15:15
This letter is on the Network Rail website https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Letter-to-Mick-Lynch-letter-dated-19-October-2022.pdf

Quote
19th October 2022
Dear Mick
After days of constructive negotiations with your team, I was genuinely surprised to see your press release last night stating that Network Rail had performed a ‘U-turn’ on our pay offer.  Nothing could be further from the truth. People were concerned to know if the current offer had been withdrawn and we simply confirmed it was still on the table. We remain open to additional ideas that would make us more productive and generate additional funding for pay.
On one issue our offer has changed already – for the better. Recognising colleagues’ genuine fears about job security we are now offering an even stronger jobs guarantee. This is our commitment to no compulsory redundancy for general grades colleagues until 31 January 2025. Indeed, I would hope to extend our jobs guarantee beyond this if we can work together to modernise the railway.

That is our offer so far: a jobs guarantee, a pay rise and discounted travel as follows: -
• 4%increase in base pay backdated to 1 January 2022, including shift pay and overtime.
• 4%increase in base pay from 1 January 2023.
• £250 increase in base salary backdated to January 2021 for colleagues whose annual base salary in 2021 was less than £24,000 per year.
• Increased pay range scales in line with the 4% award for 2022 and 2023.
We are also offering a 75% discount on leisure travel for our staff, their partner, and any dependents. As well as removing the cap on season ticket subsidies so those who can catch the train to work can have a 75% discount on any season ticket.
 
This comprehensively responds to the elements in your dispute. In the current climate of significant economic uncertainty and looming public spending cuts I think that’s a fair package.
And I think many of our colleagues think so too, which is why we are disappointed you’ve never put it to a referendum. So we need to get round the table to sort out any specific issues urgently because delay makes the financial challenge even greater.  We do want agreement to our proposals to change working practices in Maintenance and Works
Delivery, in particular, to fund this deal - as we have no additional income to pay for rises otherwise. These changes would make us more effective, safe and efficient. This means introducing individual rostering, joint response teams, co-operative working and overlapping skills becoming mandatory. We have always been transparent that Maintenance would reduce by approximately 1,850 colleagues over the next 12 -18 months, which we will achieve through a voluntary redundancy scheme for Maintenance and Works Delivery. This scheme will open for expressions of interest on 24 October.  As you know, national consultation on our proposals to change working practices in Maintenance concluded on 11 October. We offered, in good faith, to delay the start of local consultation at Route level until December to provide additional time for more talks with the Trade Unions. We are disappointed about your decision yesterday to announce strikes on November 3, 5 and 7, which effectively gives us a matter of days to reach agreement.
 
I must level with you that the financial impact of further strikes such as those you have now announced will make it harder to fund even the existing pay offer. Strikes risk driving away passengers and freight customer for good and cost the industry money we can ill afford in these times.
Given the public nature of your claims last night I am making this letter public and sharing it with colleagues.  We have invited you and your team to intensive talks next week after TUC Congress.
I look forward to getting a resolution in time for Christmas.

Yours sincerely,
Tim Shoveller
Managing director
North West and Centra



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 21, 2022, 09:02:17
It's good to see a factual, calm and measured response from NR to the endless stream of froth mouthed rhetoric emanating from Lynch and the RMT.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 21, 2022, 20:00:53
Sensible timing from NR’s perspective as they know the RMT membership is about to be re-balloted.

Let’s hope the various disputes can indeed be resolved by the end of the year.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on October 25, 2022, 15:45:35
It appears that TSSA are taking 'Action Short of a Strike' on the days RMT are striking.....

Quote
Given the lack of movement in negotiations within the Train Operating Companies. TSSA is announcing additional action short of strike for all our members in Great Western Railways (GWR).

Our reps met this week and decided to escalate our Action Short of Strike (ASOS) by adding an additional type of ASOS to the list than we have previously employed. We are announcing this today given the anti-trade union legislation that requires us to give 14 days’ notice of any industrial action.

We have therefore written to the company today to give notice that we are calling members to participate in:
 
•   Ban on on-call activities including ban on covering vacant on-call lines
This will take place over the following times and dates:

From 00:01 on Thursday 3rd November 2022 to 23:59 on Thursday 3rd November 2022

From 00:01 on Saturday 5th November 2022 to 23:59 on Saturday 5th November 2022

During the period of dispute TSSA members can legitimately refuse to:
 
•   Carry out on call duties whether their own or vacant colleagues during the times and dates above which coincide with the strike action planned by our Sister unions.

Update - now strike action on these days at Network Rail too.
From The Grauniad (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/24/rail-union-announces-week-of-industrial-action-across-uk?utm_term=635792d4da2c571153a0e4bb6d7e3336&utm_campaign=BusinessToday&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=bustoday_email)

Quote
UK rail union announces week of industrial action
Members at South Western Rail, Southeastern, West Midlands Trains, Northern and Great Western will strike starting from 3 November

A rail union has announced nearly a week of industrial action, including strikes in November in their ongoing dispute over pay, job security and conditions.

Thousands of members of the Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association at Network Rail will strike on Thursday 3 November, Saturday 5 November and Monday 7 November, while members at individual train companies will take strike action and action short of strike on 3, 7 and 8 November.

Members at five rail operators – South Western Rail, Southeastern, West Midlands Trains, Northern and Great Western – will take action short of strike action for the whole of November, and those at a sixth company, TransPennine Express, will join them from 7 November.

Members involved in the action include staff in ticket offices, stations, control rooms, and other support roles across Britain.

The TSSA is seeking a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies, a pay rise that offsets the cost of living crisis, and no unagreed changes to terms and conditions.

Its general secretary, Manuel Cortes, said: “Our members never take industrial action lightly. We would far rather find a fair negotiated solution to this now long-running dispute, but we simply have no choice.

“A huge number of rail workers in our union, many of whom are our longstanding members, had never been directly involved in an industrial dispute before this year.

“Across our railways, our members recently stepped up to the plate yet again and went above and beyond to meet unprecedented demand during the period of public mourning to provide additional services and keep the public safe, much like they did during the pandemic. They prove their worth time and time again and yet they are still undervalued.

“When this dust has settled over Rishi Sunak’s coronation, I hope that whoever he appoints as the new secretary of state for transport will see sense, unlike Grant Shapps, and use their powers to mandate a fair pay rise, reasonable terms and conditions and end this dispute.

“It’s time for train operators to be allowed to meet us round the table and negotiate a fair solution.”

A Department for Transport spokesperson said: “This is incredibly disappointing. Through no fault of their own, people up and down the country will once again have their day to day lives disrupted and be unable to attend work, school or vital doctor’s appointments.

“Our railway is in desperate need of modernisation, but all more strikes will do is take it back to the dark ages and push passengers further away. We urge union bosses to reconsider this divisive action and instead work with employers, not against them, to agree a new way forward.”



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 25, 2022, 16:52:58
So the TSSA is basically saying they want guarantees of no change ever, irrespective of the wider environment (some might say the real world) + a double digit payrise.

I think they'll have a few challenges managing expectations going forward.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on October 25, 2022, 21:52:42
RMT call off strike on Thursday 3 November, 5th and 7th to go ahead as planned.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on October 25, 2022, 22:03:38
RMT call off strike on Thursday 3 November, 5th and 7th to go ahead as planned.
On the 9th instead.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 25, 2022, 22:16:39
So the TSSA is basically saying they want guarantees of no change ever, irrespective of the wider environment (some might say the real world) + a double digit payrise.

Guarantees of no unagreed changes.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on October 25, 2022, 23:28:14
5th now NR & TOCs, 7th & 9th is NR only.

Tube & Overground now moved to 10th


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on October 26, 2022, 06:39:04
5th now NR & TOCs, 7th & 9th is NR only.
I imagine the affect of action will be the same on the 7th and 9th will be the same as the 5th as TOCs aren’t able to run many services with NR staff on strike?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on October 26, 2022, 13:27:07
The 7th & 9th will like previous RMT strikes - no service on many lines & Those that run will be on one shift - so 0730 - 1830

The 5th will all depend on the number of drivers each TOC has in the RMT rather than ASLEF.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on October 26, 2022, 22:03:16
9th now confirmed as a full RMT strike.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 04, 2022, 15:45:49
Train strikes suspended

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63510380


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 04, 2022, 16:52:08
Train strikes suspended

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63510380


Story has been updated several times ...now reads

Quote
A series of strikes by railway workers planned for 5, 7 and 9 November has been suspended, the RMT union has said.

But Network Rail warned that the late notice meant services on Saturday would remain "extremely limited", and trains on Monday are likely to be affected.

The RMT, which represents rail workers, said it would now enter "a period of intensive negotiations" with Network Rail and the rail companies.

The strike had been called in a dispute over pay and conditions.

They involved staff at Network Rail, which employs signalling workers across England, Scotland and Wales.

As a result, the action had been expected to have a major impact across the network, with only a fifth of services due to run.
RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said the threat of strike action "has made the rail employers see sense".

"We have always wanted to secure a negotiated settlement and that is what we will continue to push for in this next phase of intensive talks.

"Our priority is our members, and we are working towards securing a deal on job security, a decent pay rise and good working conditions."

He added that there had been "the promise of an offer" on pay from the rail operating companies.

Mr Lynch also warned that if the union felt the need to take strike action during the next six months, it would still do so.

Tim Shoveller, Network Rail's chief negotiator, welcomed the suspension of the strike but said: "The very late notice means that services for tomorrow cannot be reinstated and will remain extremely limited," adding that services on Monday are also likely to be disrupted.

He said Network Rail "look forward to getting back round the table with all our trades unions early next week to see if the progress made this week can be built on, and a resolution found."

Network Rail continues to advise passengers to check before they travel, and to only travel by rail if absolutely necessary on Saturday and Monday.

Mark Harper, the UK's new transport secretary, said that the suspension of the strike action was "a positive development for passengers up and down the country".

But he cautioned that the very late notice means "there will still be significant disruption across the network tomorrow and into Monday".

He added that calling off the latest strikes has given negotiations between unions and employers a "better chance of success".


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 04, 2022, 17:38:30
......presumably this means that all those due to strike will report for duty, so I'm puzzled as to why "services for tomorrow cannot be reinstated and will remain extremely limited", and that "services on Monday are also likely to be disrupted"???


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on November 05, 2022, 00:56:24
......presumably this means that all those due to strike will report for duty, so I'm puzzled as to why "services for tomorrow cannot be reinstated and will remain extremely limited", and that "services on Monday are also likely to be disrupted"???

I expect that some of those who were due to strike have already made arrangements to go away for a few days. Some may already have left the country and can not return in time to start work.
I expect a lot of sudden sickness on the days during which strike action was expected.

Might also be a shortage of trains. The very limited service that was expected might have been considered as a good opportunity to catch up on maintenance.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 05, 2022, 08:25:33
......presumably this means that all those due to strike will report for duty, so I'm puzzled as to why "services for tomorrow cannot be reinstated and will remain extremely limited", and that "services on Monday are also likely to be disrupted"???

I expect that some of those who were due to strike have already made arrangements to go away for a few days. Some may already have left the country and can not return in time to start work.
I expect a lot of sudden sickness on the days during which strike action was expected.

Might also be a shortage of trains. The very limited service that was expected might have been considered as a good opportunity to catch up on maintenance.

In every organisation I've ever worked for, once strike dates were announced it was not possible to book annual leave for the same date, so assuming the railways work the same way, unless those to whom you allude had magical powers of foresight and had booked said days off already, they will be expected to report for work or be AWOL, and early November is hardly peak holiday time, being after half term and before Christmas.

No doubt there will be sickies, but I would imagine most likely a lot of people sitting around doing nothing for a few days whilst customers struggle on - good luck to anyone travelling to and from Cardiff today for the rugby - you would have thought at the very least some arrangements could have been made to service that event.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Fourbee on November 05, 2022, 08:44:32
Might be (even more of) a problem booking Rail Replacement Buses on routes where they weren't going to be provided.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on November 05, 2022, 09:09:29
......presumably this means that all those due to strike will report for duty, so I'm puzzled as to why "services for tomorrow cannot be reinstated and will remain extremely limited", and that "services on Monday are also likely to be disrupted"???

Due to the lateness of the announcement contacting all of the staff is not practical, within Network Rail some turns at the weekend would normally covered by overtime which means no one will have been rostered to cover the turns.  On-call staff will have left their vans at depots so there will be a time lag for them to report in and collect them.

There is a limit to the contingent cover provided during the strikes and there is a limit to the level of service that is safe to run with the contingent cover


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 05, 2022, 09:28:08
I know every part of the rail network is different, but Southeastern have manage to come up with a pretty decent service today:

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/live-travel-information/service-disruption?uq=638032366163950000#INCC634C816107542CF811A7FDF1BF3D75C

Quote
The RMT and TSSA unions have announced that the strike action planned for Saturday 5, Monday 7 and Wednesday 9 November has been suspended.

Given the late notice suspension it has not been possible to restore our full timetable and therefore we will only be able to operate a limited service on the routes detailed below. Trains will start later and finish much earlier than the usual Saturday timetable so please check your journey before travelling by using our journey planner.

High speed (London St Pancras <> Ashford)
High speed (London St Pancras <> Ramsgate via Faversham)
London Victoria <> Ramsgate via Rochester
London Victoria <> Orpington via Herne Hill
London Victoria <> Ashford International via Maidstone East
London Bridge <> Dartford via Woolwich
London Bridge <> Dartford via Bexleyheath   
London Bridge <> Dartford via Sidcup      
London Bridge <> Orpington / Sevenoaks   
London Charing Cross <> Hastings            
London Charing Cross <> Ramsgate via Dover   
London Charing Cross <> Ramsgate via Canterbury West
 

There will be no service on the following routes:

Medway Valley Line (Tonbridge / Paddock Wood <> Strood via Maidstone West)
Sheerness Line (Sittingbourne <> Sheerness)
Hayes Line (Lewisham <> Hayes)
Bromley North Line (Grove Park <> Bromley North)



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 05, 2022, 13:59:54
......presumably this means that all those due to strike will report for duty, so I'm puzzled as to why "services for tomorrow cannot be reinstated and will remain extremely limited", and that "services on Monday are also likely to be disrupted"???

Due to the lateness of the announcement contacting all of the staff is not practical, within Network Rail some turns at the weekend would normally covered by overtime which means no one will have been rostered to cover the turns.  On-call staff will have left their vans at depots so there will be a time lag for them to report in and collect them.

There is a limit to the contingent cover provided during the strikes and there is a limit to the level of service that is safe to run with the contingent cover

Can possibly, just possibly with a huge amount of latitude accept some of that as an excuse for today (although needing to contact all staff? Do they live in a bubble without exposure to news?)...but Monday? Three days later?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 05, 2022, 17:43:15
Looks like TfW have managed to continue to run valley line trains throughout the evening to help get Welsh rugby fans back home.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on November 05, 2022, 17:43:41
......presumably this means that all those due to strike will report for duty, so I'm puzzled as to why "services for tomorrow cannot be reinstated and will remain extremely limited", and that "services on Monday are also likely to be disrupted"???

Due to the lateness of the announcement contacting all of the staff is not practical, within Network Rail some turns at the weekend would normally covered by overtime which means no one will have been rostered to cover the turns.  On-call staff will have left their vans at depots so there will be a time lag for them to report in and collect them.

There is a limit to the contingent cover provided during the strikes and there is a limit to the level of service that is safe to run with the contingent cover

Can possibly, just possibly with a huge amount of latitude accept some of that as an excuse for today (although needing to contact all staff? Do they live in a bubble without exposure to news?)...but Monday? Three days later?

I will be how the rosters have been planned out.  The staff roster planning and train diagrams over the industrial action period would have been set in place over a week ago, the train diagrams are easier to alter than people, the people would have been assigned their shifts to work changing people work patterns at short notice is not easy especially when there's lots of people involved.

There will be efforts put inplace to get staff rosters chnaged, but it is better to say Monday may not be a full service and over deliver than promise a normal service and under deliver


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on November 06, 2022, 19:10:22
RTT is suggesting that many services have been reinstated tomorrow on the Cotswold Line, at least:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CBY/2022-11-07/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

A cursory check suggests that several other lines have had some service reinstated (e.g. South Cotswolds, TransWilts), but that it's pretty skeletal on a few (e.g. North Downs, Banbury stoppers).


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on November 06, 2022, 19:48:12
There will be efforts put inplace to get staff rosters chnaged, but it is better to say Monday may not be a full service and over deliver than promise a normal service and under deliver

I can see it might take 24 hours notice for a simpler metro-style service, and 48 hours for long-distance routes where trains and crews have longer cycle times. And if there's a residue of disruption on Monday morning ... well, we know the railway is a big complicated cumbersome and inflexible beast. But GWR's current advice looks unimpressive by any measure:
Quote
Planned industrial action on Monday 7 & Wednesday 9 November has been cancelled. Unfortunately, with less than 12 hours notice before the strikes were due to start, it is too late to restore normal timetables on Monday 7 & Tuesday 8 November. Our advice remains to only travel by rail if absolutely necessary.
-
Train services will still be severely disrupted and some parts of the GWR network will have no service at all. Where trains are running, an extremely limited service will operate.
-
Where trains are able to run, they are expected to be extremely busy and we are not able to provide bus replacement services.
-
Customers are advised to find alternative ways to travel on Monday 7 November. Only travel by train if absolutely necessary. A reduced timetable will be in operation and many routes will have no services at all.
-
We are working hard to restore the normal timetable from Wednesday 9 November. However, customers planning to travel on either Tuesday 8 or Wednesday 9 November are advised to check their entire journey before travelling.

That's 12 hours notice, but before a strike start four days earlier!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on November 07, 2022, 08:32:52
Hourly on the Falmouth & St Ives also hourly shuttle Penzance to Newton Abbot....  better than nothing


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on November 07, 2022, 09:18:28
Bit confusing this morning - the departure boards were saying that several up trains would run on the Cotswold Line, but in fact nothing has run so far. Looks like the first one will be the 08.56 from Great Malvern which RTT is showing as being on its way.

Next question is whether anything will run this evening...


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 07, 2022, 10:12:32
Bit confusing this morning - the departure boards were saying that several up trains would run on the Cotswold Line, but in fact nothing has run so far. Looks like the first one will be the 08.56 from Great Malvern which RTT is showing as being on its way.

Basically it's a mess - data all over the place ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/bambam247.jpg)

BBC headline - "Train passengers told to check before travelling on Monday" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63522511


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Hafren on November 07, 2022, 10:15:15
I wonder how all this works with compensation. I planned to work from home because of the strike, and claim the lost day's use of season ticket as instructed. Strike was cancelled but potentially too late for service on Monday. Trains reappeared in RTT late last night, but I decided it was too late to change plans, and stuck with plan to work from home. Perhaps still claimable as we were told to expect disruption, but automatic systems might not approve it.

Checking SWA, there were some problems e.g. delays and non-reports, and not the 'full' service running, but not too bad.

Bit confusing this morning - the departure boards were saying that several up trains would run on the Cotswold Line, but in fact nothing has run so far. Looks like the first one will be the 08.56 from Great Malvern which RTT is showing as being on its way.

Next question is whether anything will run this evening...

Shows the need to under-promise and over-deliver in this situation. As is often the case, understandable that problems arose, but not great that a reinstatement was advertised and then couldn't be delivered.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: the void on November 07, 2022, 10:55:10
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rail-rmt-strike-suspension-cancellation-b2218879.html

Suggestion that this might be a new RMT tactic. Announce a strike, but call it off at the very last minute, knowing it's too late to reinstate services. All the disruption with no loss of pay for members.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: nickswift99 on November 07, 2022, 13:43:07
I wonder how all this works with compensation. I planned to work from home because of the strike, and claim the lost day's use of season ticket as instructed. Strike was cancelled but potentially too late for service on Monday. Trains reappeared in RTT late last night, but I decided it was too late to change plans, and stuck with plan to work from home. Perhaps still claimable as we were told to expect disruption, but automatic systems might not approve it.

Checking SWA, there were some problems e.g. delays and non-reports, and not the 'full' service running, but not too bad.

Bit confusing this morning - the departure boards were saying that several up trains would run on the Cotswold Line, but in fact nothing has run so far. Looks like the first one will be the 08.56 from Great Malvern which RTT is showing as being on its way.

Next question is whether anything will run this evening...

Shows the need to under-promise and over-deliver in this situation. As is often the case, understandable that problems arose, but not great that a reinstatement was advertised and then couldn't be delivered.

The advice on GWR's website for today and tomorrow (Tuesday) remains to avoid travel. On that basis I've not travelled and submitted a claim for today. The language used on their website is the same as previous strike days for which I received compensation.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on November 07, 2022, 14:34:36
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rail-rmt-strike-suspension-cancellation-b2218879.html

Suggestion that this might be a new RMT tactic. Announce a strike, but call it off at the very last minute, knowing it's too late to reinstate services. All the disruption with no loss of pay for members.

Only the staff that would have normally been rostered as part of their normal turns of duty.

I doubt that a Union would use calling off of a strike at short notice as a tactic they would use in the dispute, it would be the quickest route for them to end up in Court, also if used too often the employers could be issuing warnings to staff for failing to turn up for duty a very quick way to tee off your members.  The Unions must have felt fairly confident that progress had been made in the talks with the employers to call of the industrial action 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on November 07, 2022, 15:45:58
Bit confusing this morning - the departure boards were saying that several up trains would run on the Cotswold Line, but in fact nothing has run so far. Looks like the first one will be the 08.56 from Great Malvern which RTT is showing as being on its way.

Basically it's a mess - data all over the place ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/bambam247.jpg)

BBC headline - "Train passengers told to check before travelling on Monday" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63522511

It is not brilliant - but there isn't a simple answer.  Leave things as they were so the earlier messages remain, and are clear, but be criticised for doing nothing or try to add services back as resources are available.

It isn't a problem unique to GWR.  There was some confusion between differing websites about some SWR services this morning.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 07, 2022, 17:04:29
It is not brilliant - but there isn't a simple answer.  Leave things as they were so the earlier messages remain, and are clear, but be criticised for doing nothing or try to add services back as resources are available.

It isn't a problem unique to GWR.  There was some confusion between differing websites about some SWR services this morning.

I know - I chose to leave it as was on the Coffee Shop and not attempt a "special". 

Much more of concern was the printed notice still on display (on a mobile stand that could have been wheeled away thought about it!) telling people - lunchtime Saturday - about the strikes that day and on Monday and Wednesday.  Out of date and misleading - better to take it away that provide wrong information or even (the circumstances) a handwritten or printed A4 sheet on top saying "being updated".   Great admiration for certain tube stations where a good old fashioned whiteboard ...


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 07, 2022, 19:11:00
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rail-rmt-strike-suspension-cancellation-b2218879.html

Suggestion that this might be a new RMT tactic. Announce a strike, but call it off at the very last minute, knowing it's too late to reinstate services. All the disruption with no loss of pay for members.

Only the staff that would have normally been rostered as part of their normal turns of duty.

I doubt that a Union would use calling off of a strike at short notice as a tactic they would use in the dispute, it would be the quickest route for them to end up in Court, also if used too often the employers could be issuing warnings to staff for failing to turn up for duty a very quick way to tee off your members.  The Unions must have felt fairly confident that progress had been made in the talks with the employers to call of the industrial action 

Well....the proof of this will surely be in the pudding as we'll shortly find out if there is indeed an offer made.

The delay in restoring services is down to rosters of crew & trains, which may be in the wrong place - no trains Saturday, very few movements Sunday with early finish on some routes still going in as planned for the Monday strike plus possible maintenance calls with Hitachi. Staff rosters have to be notified to all staff well in advance (once they've been worked out, meaning weekend working by staff who may not have been available at no notice, being firework weekend) - at least 72 hours and possibly longer. If you are rostered for a 0330 start, you don't want to find out the night before.....

But Wednesday really ought to be a full service frankly


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on November 07, 2022, 19:20:47
If you are rostered for a 0330 start, you don't want to find out the night before.....

…..when you are on your second pint in the pub”

To paraphrase a rail friend of mine. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 07, 2022, 20:15:47
Having said all that, all depots should have a 'Master Roster' which I believe is set to roster everyone for a standard timetable, including rest days. Holidays will have been banned during the strike week too, I understand, so the quickest & easiest way of restoring at least somewhat of a normal service would for the roster management team to implement that, and then set to work rostering anything else out of the standard pattern.

This I believe is how C2C & Greater Anglia got almost their full timetable up & running today, with SouthEastern not far behind. Why others couldn't/wouldn't do that, I don't know.

Of course, there may have been stock issues too, but at least something of a reasonable offer might have been possible.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 08, 2022, 04:36:56
From GWR and NR last night at 18:30 - circular I'm sure but headed "dear Graham"

Quote
Following Friday’s late notice postponement of strike action by the RMT, TSSA and Unite unions, our teams have been working hard to reinstate services and we ran more services than originally planned today. A reduced timetable with services starting later than usual will remain in place for tomorrow (Tuesday 8th).
 
Our normal timetable will resume from Wednesday 9th November (previously planned to be a strike day).
 
Services for tomorrow and Wednesday are already in online journey planners. Customers should check before they travel in case there are any short-notice changes using www.gwr.com/check. 
 
Customers with tickets for the proposed strike days who have now chosen to change their travel plans will be entitled to a full refund, or use their existing ticket on services up to and including Friday 11th November. Full information can be found at www.gwr.com/strike. 
 
If there is anything we can do to help, please get in touch.

Sanity has returned to our disruption map

First train (Melksham) showing at the 07:53 to Swindon, so the 05:33, 06:36 and 07:21 remain "cancelled" as far as the passenger is concerned, although they probably won't show up in the failure stats making those stats look better than they really are.   First southbound train 09:10.
 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on November 08, 2022, 05:20:34
Holidays will have been banned during the strike week too, I understand

Holidays are definitely not banned. We’d be out the door again if that happened!!!!!!
Companies do not hold what union an employee is a member of so crew will be rostered as a normal day on strike days.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 08, 2022, 05:49:09
AIUI any annual leave remains valid that was booked and agreed before a strike day is called, but no additional applications are entertained after a strike is called.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 08, 2022, 07:06:40
AIUI any annual leave remains valid that was booked and agreed before a strike day is called, but no additional applications are entertained after a strike is called.

Yes that's been my experience throughout my career.

Message from GWR Twitter this morning remains

Services continue to be affected following the suspension of planned industrial action

There is currently a reduced level of service operating on many parts of the network

Find alternative ways to travel if possible

http://gwr.com/strike


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on November 08, 2022, 08:58:16
The 04.49 from Hereford to Paddington was reinstated late last night. I spotted it in time to save Mrs F the protracted journey on the charming but rather slow bus from Charlbury into Oxford this morning. Can't imagine it was busy, though, unless there were many other people watching RTT in the small hours.

Otherwise no service before 09.00 here.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 08, 2022, 09:40:32
Many of the peak 9/10-car IET arrivals at Paddington crammed with 800+ passengers.

The ‘try not to travel’ message is very necessary but not necessarily being followed!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 08, 2022, 11:42:40
From The Telegraph, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/rmt-blamed-for-monday-rail-chaos-after-sitting-on-potential-pay-deal/ar-AA13Qa97?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=abde1d7c6b494561b8354a728cabad87)

Quote
RMT blamed for Monday rail chaos after ‘sitting on’ potential pay deal

The trade union leading industrial action on the railways sat on a potential deal for a week that would have avoided travel chaos for millions of commuters on Monday, the Telegraph has learnt.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport workers union (RMT) waited until Friday afternoon to call off three days of strike action starting on Saturday, leaving no time to reset train timetables.

As a result, millions of commuters were dismayed to find just one in five train services were running on Monday across some of the UK's busiest lines despite the planned strike action being cancelled.

The last-minute cancellation came despite a verbal offer made a week beforehand. Network Rail is understood to have offered an olive branch to union leaders during the week commencing Oct 24.

It included an offer to drop plans to ram through changes to maintenance staff working conditions – a core plank of the dispute – without the RMT’s support.

The TSSA and Unite unions chose to call off their industrial action on the following Tuesday, Nov 1, in response.

It is understood that had the RMT moved in step with its sister unions, a full rail service would have been operated on Monday. Disruption on Saturday would also have been mitigated.

Mick Lynch, RMT general secretary, however, waited until last Thursday, Nov 3, to request that the offer from Network Rail was put in writing. Assurances were delivered on Friday, which prompted Mr Lynch to call off the strikes.

The RMT insisted that it decided to abandon a week-long campaign of strike action only once it had received written confirmation from Network Rail on Nov 4.

A spokesman for the union said: "For the first time the train operators via [trade body] the RDG committed in their letter on Friday to finally make a full written offer on the issues in dispute following a period of intensive negotiations with the train operating companies.

"Our NEC then decided at the earliest opportunity that same day to suspend scheduled strike action."

Rail industry sources hit back, with one saying that Network Rail’s position had not changed over the course of the week.

“TSSA and Unite didn't feel the need to wait for a clarification letter, the reason being everything was crystal clear,” they added.

Thameslink, Southern, Great Northern, Northern, South Western, South Eastern and ScotRail ran only around one in five of their normal services on Monday as a result of the last minute cancellation of industrial action.

Others, such as Greater Anglia and Merseyrail, were able to return to a full normal timetable.

Rail chiefs spent much of the weekend in talks with union leaders to try and avert travel chaos bleeding into this week.

Although they were unable to restore a full service, it is thought that roughly 40pc of normal trains were in operation across the country. Most companies offer drivers a "seven-day rostering agreement" that means timetables must be agreed a week in advance.

Services on Wednesday, originally down as a strike day, will return to a full schedule, sources said, after train operators struck a deal with drivers union Aslef to increase flexibility on rostering.

A train operator source said: "Bosses are spitting feathers at the fact that the RMT has got the moral high ground, whilst their members are getting paid for sitting at home."

A spokesman for Network Rail said: “Finding a resolution to this long running dispute is all that matters and right now all parties involved are fully engaged in that goal. With a fair wind, and building on progress of the last week, we hope that talks over the next two weeks can find that elusive win-win.”

They are correct in that the TSSA & Unite cancelled their strikes as stated above.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 09, 2022, 06:11:23
Another two strike days coming up on the 19th and 21st of November. RMT striking over the dismissal of a signaller at Thames Valley Signalling Centre.

Awaiting to see what disruption that will cause. All GWR are saying at the moment:
https://www.gwr.com/strike

Quote
In a separate, local, dispute with Network Rail, RMT members at the Thames Valley Signal Centre (TVSC) have announced their intention to take industrial action on Saturday 19 and Monday 21 November.

On these days train services will be disrupted on many parts of the GWR network. Trains on the days following the industrial action may also be disrupted.

A reduced service will operate between 07:30 and 18:30 on most parts of the GWR network, and the last trains will be earlier than usual.

In the areas affected, where we are able to run services, they are expected to be busy and we are not able to provide bus replacement services.

Online journey planners will be updated with the latest timetable information as soon as possible.

Must confess to having a bit more interest in this one as I’m meant to be traveling home from London on Saturday the 19th  :(


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 10, 2022, 13:58:05
Train drivers belonging to ASLEF to strike on Saturday 26th of November.

edit: spelling


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 10, 2022, 14:06:18
From the ASLEF website (https://aslef.org.uk/publications/aslef-announces-another-day-strike-action)

Quote
rain drivers who are members of ASLEF – the train drivers’ union – will walk out at 12 train operating companies on Saturday 26 November in a dispute over pay.

ASLEF negotiators have been engaged in talks with the industry but there has, so far, been no offer on pay.

Mick Whelan, general secretary, commented:

“We regret that passengers will be inconvenienced for another day. We don’t want to be taking this action. Withdrawing our labour is always a last resort for a trade union.

“We have come to the table, as we always will, in good faith but while the industry continues to make no offer – due to the dodgy deal they signed with the DfT – we have no choice but to take strike action again.

“They want drivers to take a real terms pay cut. With inflation now well into double figures, train drivers who kept Britain moving through the pandemic are now being expected to work just as hard this year as last year but for less. Most of these drivers have not had an increase in salary since 2019.

“We want the companies – which are making huge profits – to make a proper pay offer so that our members can keep up with the cost of living.”

ASLEF members at 12 companies – Avanti West Coast; Chiltern Railways; CrossCountry; East Midlands Railway; Great Western Railway; Greater Anglia; London North Eastern Railway; London Overground; Northern Trains; Southeastern; Transpennine Express, and West Midlands Trains   - will strike on 26 November.

We have already walked out for 24 hours on Saturday 30 July; Saturday 13 August; Saturday 1 October, and Wednesday 5 October at those companies which have, so far, refused to do the right thing.

This year we have successfully concluded pay deals with fourteen companies: Colas Infrastructure Monitoring; DB Cargo; Direct Rail Services; Eurostar; Freightliner Heavy Haul; Freightliner Intermodal; GB Railfreight; Grand Central; Merseyrail; MTR Elizabeth line; Nexus; PRE Metro Operations; ScotRail, and Transport for Wales. We have put an offer from the company to our members from Hull Trains and First Tram Operations.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 10, 2022, 14:33:10
South West Trains unaffected?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 10, 2022, 14:36:38
They were being re-balloted - maybe only action short of a strike was agreed?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Fourbee on November 12, 2022, 09:49:12
South West Trains unaffected?
SWR drivers had a pay deal a while back, not sure how long is left on it.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on November 12, 2022, 14:48:54
South West Trains unaffected?

With the dire performance during 'normal' times we in SWR land are grateful for every small mercy.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 12, 2022, 18:36:34
On the RDG website (https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/update-on-the-rmt-negotiations)

Quote
Update on the RMT negotiations

A spokesperson for the Railway Delivery Group, said

“We have held a series of constructive discussions with the RMT leadership this week and we have agreed to continue these discussions next week. Our priority remains to reach a fair deal which both rewards our people with a pay rise, and delivers the reforms needed to secure a sustainable future for the industry and those working within it.”

The result of the RMT re-ballot on the 15th (Tuesday) will be needed to be positive before they set any further strike dates, assuming they see out next week's talks.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 13, 2022, 10:03:39
South West Trains unaffected?
SWR drivers had a pay deal a while back, not sure how long is left on it.

Thanks - useful to know.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: rogerw on November 14, 2022, 14:08:14
I have to travel from Bristol to London and back, for a trip on the British Pullman, on 26th November. When are we likely to know what service, if any, GWR will be offering


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 14, 2022, 14:11:05
A few days before. Don’t expext anything before 0730 and all services to complete by 1830


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 14, 2022, 17:08:38
Four days away from the industrial action taking place at TVSC on the 19th and we’re none the wiser as to what is going to be running on this coming Saturday.

edit spelling


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 14, 2022, 18:49:40
Four days away from the industrial action taking place at TVSC on the 19th and we’re none the wiser as to what is going to be running on this coming Saturday.
Finally, some information: www.gwr.com/strike page has been updated. Still have to wait till Wednesday for a timetable mind.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 14, 2022, 21:56:44
Four days away from the industrial action taking place at TVSC on the 19th and we’re none the wiser as to what is going to be running on this coming Saturday.

edit spelling

from GWR:

Quote
Dear Graham
 
We said we would keep you updated with planned industrial action that will affect train services. Unfortunately, we have two sets of dates to make you aware of.
 
On both Saturday 19th and Monday 21st November, RMT members at Network Rail’s signalling centre near Didcot Parkway will be on strike. This is regarding a local disciplinary matter and unrelated to the other strikes that have taken place this year.
 
As this is a crucial part of the network controlling all signalling between London Paddington, the Cotswolds, south Wales, west and south west of England, we will only be able to run a reduced number of services and those in the affected area will start much later and finish much earlier than usual. The train schedule is currently being confirmed and will be in online systems later this week. As with previous strikes, there will be a knock-on impact for the days after strikes, on Sunday 20th and Tuesday 22nd November. For further information please see www.gwr.com/strike. 
 
As this isn’t a national strike the level of awareness isn’t high, and will affect many passengers including heading to the rugby at the Principality Stadium in Cardiff and Twickenham Stadium in London. We’d be grateful if you could share this information through your networks.
 
We have also received notice that the ASLEF union (train drivers) will be on strike on Saturday 26th November. As with previous ASLEF action, this will severely limit train services and we expect to only be able to operate a very limited service between Bristol and London, Reading and Oxford, and Reading and Basingstoke. Exact details of the train schedule will be confirmed next week.
 
We will write to you again later this week when the train schedule for Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday as well as Saturday 26th has been confirmed.
 
Many thanks,
 
Toby and Jane
 
Toby Elliott, Head of Communications, Network Rail Western
 
Jane Jones, Head of Public Affairs, Great Western Railway


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 14, 2022, 22:56:50
Melksham & North Cotswolds bott being served I note this weekend


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 15, 2022, 11:00:52
Melksham & North Cotswolds bott being served I note this weekend

Good to see.  Anything beyond Wolvercote Junction isn't controlled by the TVSC and that's the same once you get just onto the Melsksham Single at 96m 30c - but that might not have stopped them from giving up anyway!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: rogerw on November 20, 2022, 11:22:38
Services for 26th November, such as they are, now on journey planners. Limited hourly service BRI - PAD (0730 to1930). Booked myself a ticket and seat reservation. Interestingly services are not stopping at Bath Spa in either direction. Also hourly Reading to Oxford and Basingstoke.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: WSW Frome on November 20, 2022, 11:40:31
Assuming the trains are routed through Bath, then GWR may be avoiding the extra crush caused by the Christmas Market in Bath which I believe starts this Thursday.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: rogerw on November 20, 2022, 11:52:44
Probably the explanation as calling at Chippenham.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 20, 2022, 17:26:25
Assuming the trains are routed through Bath, then GWR may be avoiding the extra crush caused by the Christmas Market in Bath which I believe starts this Thursday.
www.gwr.com/strike confirms trains not stopping at Bath Spa. Sensible move on this occasion as it would cause all sorts of trouble with overcrowding on what limited service is running. The Bath Christmas market causes all sorts of problems at Bath Spa when a full timetable is in operation!

Quote
A very limited service will run only on the following routes between:

London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads (these trains will not stop at Bath Spa)
Reading and Oxford
Reading and Basingstoke


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 21, 2022, 17:40:57
It’s not looking good:

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/train-companies-cancel-negotiations-and-make-no-offer-in/

Quote

TRAIN COMPANIES CANCEL NEGOTIATIONS AND MAKE NO OFFER IN NATIONAL RAIL DISPUTE

RMT Press Office:

The Rail Delivery Group, which represents the Train Operating Companies (TOCs), has today without any credible explanation refused to make their promised written proposals in the six-month dispute over jobs, terms and conditions and pay.

Similarly, Network Rail has also refused to make any proposals promised at the conclusion of intensive talks last week. RMT suspended strike action on the basis that they would make new proposals by November 17 and it has failed to table anything new.

This will mean that despite having shown good faith in attending a fortnight of discussions with both halves of the industry, the union has no new proposals to consider or put to its members.

RMT’s National Executive Committee will meet tomorrow morning (Tuesday 22nd November 2022) to consider the matter and it is highly likely that further phases of industrial action will be set down.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said:

“After a fortnight of talks, the TOCs had committed to making a firm offer in writing for the first time today.  They cancelled the meeting at an hour’s notice, and we can sense the hand of the Tory government in this as we believe that they are not allowing an offer to be made.

“This is on top of Network Rail failing to make a new proposal at the end of last week.

“Our members have shown their commitment to the dispute and to winning workplace justice in the re-ballot results last week and their union is equally determined to see this dispute through until we get a deal our members can support.

“Tomorrow morning our National Executive Committee will be meeting to consider this. We have been patient and have shown good faith which has not been returned. 

“Therefore, I will be recommending that we set out further phases of sustained industrial action in support of our members.

“While we will remain available for meaningful negotiations it is now obvious that the other side is unwilling or unable to progress matters appropriately, so our action will be reinstated,” he said.

I think we’re going to need a new thread soon.  :(


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: froome on November 21, 2022, 17:49:59
 >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on November 21, 2022, 18:07:57
It’s not looking good:

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/train-companies-cancel-negotiations-and-make-no-offer-in/

Quote

TRAIN COMPANIES CANCEL NEGOTIATIONS AND MAKE NO OFFER IN NATIONAL RAIL DISPUTE

RMT Press Office:

The Rail Delivery Group, which represents the Train Operating Companies (TOCs), has today without any credible explanation refused to make their promised written proposals in the six-month dispute over jobs, terms and conditions and pay.

Similarly, Network Rail has also refused to make any proposals promised at the conclusion of intensive talks last week. RMT suspended strike action on the basis that they would make new proposals by November 17 and it has failed to table anything new.

This will mean that despite having shown good faith in attending a fortnight of discussions with both halves of the industry, the union has no new proposals to consider or put to its members.

RMT’s National Executive Committee will meet tomorrow morning (Tuesday 22nd November 2022) to consider the matter and it is highly likely that further phases of industrial action will be set down.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said:

“After a fortnight of talks, the TOCs had committed to making a firm offer in writing for the first time today.  They cancelled the meeting at an hour’s notice, and we can sense the hand of the Tory government in this as we believe that they are not allowing an offer to be made.

“This is on top of Network Rail failing to make a new proposal at the end of last week.

“Our members have shown their commitment to the dispute and to winning workplace justice in the re-ballot results last week and their union is equally determined to see this dispute through until we get a deal our members can support.

“Tomorrow morning our National Executive Committee will be meeting to consider this. We have been patient and have shown good faith which has not been returned. 

“Therefore, I will be recommending that we set out further phases of sustained industrial action in support of our members.

“While we will remain available for meaningful negotiations it is now obvious that the other side is unwilling or unable to progress matters appropriately, so our action will be reinstated,” he said.

I think we’re going to need a new thread soon.  :(

More like rope  ::)

It's fine for the RMT to express their disappointment regarding RD and NR withdrawing from negotiations the RMT made no effort to recommend what was on offer.

I suspect the Government will still proceed with it hasty legislation


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on November 21, 2022, 18:45:23
It's fine for the RMT to express their disappointment regarding RD and NR withdrawing from negotiations the RMT made no effort to recommend what was on offer.

I suspect the Government will still proceed with it hasty legislation

Unless I have mis-read your comment, I think the clue is in the title of the press release as to why the Union has not recommended anything
Quote
TRAIN COMPANIES CANCEL NEGOTIATIONS AND MAKE NO OFFER IN NATIONAL RAIL DISPUTE

I do agree with your final comment though - legislation will be rushed through imminently


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on November 21, 2022, 19:34:48
As I suspected, RMT's isn't the only version of what happened. This is from RDG (https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/rail-delivery-group-responds-to-the-latest-rmt-statement):
Quote
The Rail Delivery Group has responded to today's (21 November 2022) statement from the RMT.

A spokesperson for the Rail Delivery Group, said:

“We have made real progress over the last fortnight and for the first time in months we can see the outline of a credible deal.

"Any strikes will only cause further misery for customers and struggling businesses in the run up to Christmas and beyond. The RMT leadership should now remove any uncertainty around Christmas and commit to protecting everyone’s first festive period post Covid from any strike disruption. 

"The alternative is a bleak winter of industrial action, making it harder to find workable solutions to bring about the much-needed changes that will help secure the railway’s future and unlock the funds for a pay offer. Revenues are still 20% down on 2019 level and this dispute has brought the industry’s post-pandemic recovery to a shuddering halt – with strikes since June resulting in lost revenue of £250-£300m.

"We urge the RMT leadership to stay at the negotiating table so we can build on that progress and end a dispute that is harming passengers and businesses, the industry, and their members.”

TSSA say they are prepared to keep talking.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on November 22, 2022, 15:55:51
RMT have announced four 48hr strikes in December and January.

13-14 and 16-17 December.
3-4 and 6-7 January.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/22/more-uk-rail-strikes-to-disrupt-travel-in-december-and-january




Edit note: I've renamed this topic to include all rail unions - a one stop shop for all rail union strike posts, information and debate. Also changed 'summer' to '2022/2023' to reflect the ongoing industrial action.

JayMac


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 22, 2022, 16:31:03
It's reached the point where trains need to be in the right place for a prompt start up on the day after any strike....otherwise it'll be a late start up on the day in-between (yes, I realise that this is what the RMT intend, hence my comment!)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on November 22, 2022, 16:36:56
Also an overtime ban Sunday 18 December - 2 January inclusive.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on November 22, 2022, 16:43:26
Not forgetting the ASLEF strike this Saturday, 26th November, affecting twelve TOCs, including GWR.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 22, 2022, 16:57:39
Busier motorways, more lost customers and less revenue for the railways.

I see ASLEF's strike on Saturday now affects "only" 11 train companies. Not sure who's dropped out.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Surrey 455 on November 22, 2022, 19:56:23
Busier motorways, more lost customers and less revenue for the railways.

I see ASLEF's strike on Saturday now affects "only" 11 train companies. Not sure who's dropped out.

London Overground.

From BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61634959)
Quote
What about the strike on Saturday?
Saturday's strike, called by the Aslef union over pay, involves train drivers working for:

Avanti West Coast - no services on the day
Chiltern Railways - no services
CrossCountry - no services
East Midlands Railway - no services
Great Western Railway - an "extremely limited" service
Greater Anglia - "heavily reduced" service
London North Eastern Railway - "limited" service
Northern Trains - no services
Southeastern - no services
Transpennine Express - "very limited" service
West Midlands Trains - no services
There may also be disruption on the days before and after the strike day.

Strike action at London Overground - which had been expected on Saturday - has been suspended while union members consider a new pay offer.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 23, 2022, 05:35:21
Edit note: I've renamed this topic to include all rail unions - a one stop shop for all rail union strike posts, information and debate. Also changed 'summer' to '2022/2023' to reflect the ongoing industrial action.

Thanks for that.   Ruefully, I found myself hoping the "2023" is enough and did a Google search for the longest strike.  Somewhat tangentially, it came up with a "School Strike" that lasted from 1914 to 1939 where the fired teachers took almost all of their pupils with them and set up an independent school.    I can't see a direct parallel, but it set me wondering if others (such as Go-op and the Unions) might set up their own open access train operations, but then you would still have the government owning the infrastructure.   It's a very different matter getting a new alternative school building to getting a new alternative railway infrastructure, though of course that solution WAS used in Victorian times!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Jamsdad on November 23, 2022, 14:03:49
Well I was planning to get he train form Liskeard to Paddington on 14 December, and because I do need to make this journey, have managed to get a ticket for the National Express Coach . It s not a very appealing alternative.  I have to leave Liskeard at 0755 and dont get in  to London until 1530.( 7.5 hours)  No refreshments, but I do believe they a have a toilet!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 23, 2022, 14:09:27
From My London, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/london-underground-major-stations-including-heathrow-and-king-s-cross-st-pancras-to-be-hit-by-extra-strike-this-week/ar-AA14rXEq?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=53ba2b4434fd4a64afedfa6440462192)

London Underground: Major stations including Heathrow and King's Cross St Pancras to be hit by extra strike this week

Quote
RMT union members who work at several key London Underground stations will take strike action this Friday (November 25) in a continued dispute over the non-backfilling of up to 600 positions which the union claims will compromise passenger and staff safety. The walkout is a culmination of a week-long overtime ban which started on Sunday (November 20).

Station staff at Victoria, Euston, Green Park, King's Cross St Pancras, Heathrow Terminals 2,3, Heathrow Terminal 4, Heathrow Terminal 5, Hatton Cross and Hounslow West will take part in the action, as well as staff in the London Underground 's special requirements team, which provides support across the network subject to demand (such as for major events).

Transport for London (TfL) is advising passengers using these stations to check journeys before travelling, although the stations should remain open for most of the day. It only expects stations to have to close if available staff drop below the minimum levels at the start or end of the day. If this happens, Tube trains won't stop at the above stations.

As the strike only relates to London Underground station staff, National Rail (including London Overground and Elizabeth line) and Heathrow Express staff will operate as normal so non-Tube services will still be able to stop at affected stations. Euston Square Tube station will be open as normal, which is a five minute walk away from Euston.

continues....



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on November 23, 2022, 17:48:49
Rumour has it the blocker to the deal if the DfT.  The DfT will not agree to the offer NR want to put the TU's


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 23, 2022, 18:23:16
I think that is probably correct. What would make it more interesting is what that offer might be.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on November 24, 2022, 06:41:30
I think that is probably correct. What would make it more interesting is what that offer might be.

The rumour is that it is something NR Board strongly believe the TU's would sign up to.

In the meantime, MP's have been given a £2200 a year pay rise and can claim expenses for Christmas parties


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 24, 2022, 19:25:53
From Guardian's via MSN rolling news feed (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/mick-lynch-says-rmt-no-closer-to-calling-off-rail-strikes-as-transport-minister-states-there-is-deal-to-be-done-uk-politics-live/ar-AA14uMEh?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=2142fa95849c4ccebe274cb091a4a930) this afternoon

Quote
14:30
Here is a full summary of what Mick Lynch, the RMT general secretary, said when he spoke to journalists after his meeting with Mark Harper, the transport secretary.

Lynch said the meeting with Mark Harper was “positive”. He said:

I would say it was a positive meeting in the sense that we’ve got rid of the bellicose nonsense that we used to have from Grant Shapps and his cohort, in his era, and we are now starting to get a dialogue.

But he said the RMT was no closer to calling off the strikes scheduled for December and January. He said that would not happen until a reasonable offer was on the table. He said:


If we call off the strikes, we’ll never get a settlement. We did that two weeks ago. We’ve changed our dates in response to public opinion. When the Queen passed, when we had the poppy day, we’ve done other things. We have not had a strike for seven weeks, and nothing has happened. So anyone that’s been involved in industrial relations knows that there has got to leverage and pressure at the table from both sides. That will create the compromises and the resolutions that we’re all looking for.

If I take these [strike] actions off without any outcome, my members won’t forgive me for doing that. And we know that the pressure will be off all the parties.

He said Harper had committed to giving the RMT a letter setting out a process towards a resolution of the rail dispute.

He said he wanted Harper to give the rail industry a fresh mandate to negotiate an end to the dispute. He said that although the RMT has been in talks with the Rail Delivery Group, which represents rail companies, it did not seem to have proper authority to negotiate. The individual companies were also saying they could not negotiate either, he said. He said he asked Harper to clarify who had authority to negotiate, and to set up a liaison group involving ministers. He went on:

[Harper] has got a legal responsibility for industrial relations, and the responsibility to set their mandate, ie what they can say, what they can offer, and what they can negotiate on at that table. So I’m hoping he’s going to do that, hopefully today … He needs to clarify in writing where he stands and where the industry stands when they are transacting with us in those discussions.

He said he did not expect Harper to be at the negotiating table with him. But he did expect ministers to be “engaged in the process”.

He claimed the current negotiating situation was “surreal” because the employers did not have a mandate to negotiate a resolution. He said the Rail Delivery Group had told the RMT it was not able to engage in collective bargaining. And the individual rail companies said they could not engage in collective bargaining either, he said. He went on:

So this is a completely strange and surreal situation. I’m responsible for my union, and I stand in front of you and take whatever you want to throw at me. Nobody from the employers is prepared to stand in front of me and take the responsibility for settling this dispute. That’s what we need. We need somebody of authority, which has to start with the secretary of state and the rail minister, who I want to work with positively, to take responsibility for settling this dispute.

He said Harper had denied that the Department for Transport was the “blockage” preventing a solution to the dispute. Lynch said someone seemed to be blocking a solution, but he said it was not clearly exactly who it was.

He said he had urged Harper to speed up negotiations. The talks have been running for six months already, he said. “And we have had not one document put across the table. That has to change,” he said.

He said jobs, and terms and conditions, were more important to his members than pay levels. He said:

My members are telling me you’ve got to secure me my job, and you’ve got to get me a set of terms and conditions that are acceptable, and then we can talk about what we’re getting paid. If you haven’t got a job, you don’t get a pay rise anyway.

He said the train operators were “only interested in profit”. He said:

They made profit throughout Covid and they made profit throughout these disputes, where they have been indemnified for every day of strike action. This lot in the Department of Transport have been paying all their costs while all the businesses in London and across this country have been suffering losses, while the train operators have had all of their revenue protected by this government.

He said plans to cut 50% of maintenance inspections on the railway were not acceptable.

He said he would urge passengers disrupted by the rail strikes to contact Tory MPs and urge them to “get these ministers to get us a settlement”.

14:37
Mark Harper, the transport secretary, has said his meeting with Mick Lynch, the RMT general secretary, was productive. In a clip for broadcasters, he adopted a consensual tone, stressing the “shared” objectives of both sides, but did not offer commitments on substance. He said:


[Lynch] and I both agreed that this was a productive meeting. It was the first one that that we’ve had. I think it struck the right tone.

I think there was a shared agreement in the meeting. We both want to have a thriving railway that is sustainable for the future, that serves passengers, that serves the country and also provides good, well-paid jobs for the people that he represents. I think there’s a lot of shared agreement there.

But we need to have the two sides, the trade unions and the employers, sit down, agree on the detail, so that we can bring this dispute to an end. I think that’s where we both have a shared interest.

15:05
The Department for Transport has now sent out a news release with a statement from Mark Harper about his meeting with Mick Lynch, the RMT general secretary. It mostly echoes what he told the BBC (see 2.32pm), but it includes a line saying he thinks “there is a deal to be done”. He says:


We have common ground - we both want the dispute to end and we both want a thriving railway which delivers for passengers and workers alike. To achieve this though, we need to work together, across the entire industry to ensure our railway industry thrives.

There is a deal to be done, and I believe we will get there – I want to facilitate the RMT and the employers to reach an agreement and end the dispute for the benefit of the travelling public.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2022, 05:50:15
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63746412)

Quote
Train strikes: Minister hopes Christmas walkouts can be stopped

[snip]

But Mr Harper has now agreed to help both sides come back to the table and will write to RMT boss Mick Lynch setting out the terms under which talks can take place.

Mr Harper said there was a "shared agreement" that the dispute had gone on for too long, but would not commit to offering more government money to help resolve the dispute.

Instead he maintained that industry reform was needed to deliver the savings which would enable a "reasonable pay rise" for staff.

[snip]

So as I read it, they're having talks about talks, and whilst they share an agreement that the dispute has gone on too long (!!) the government - quoted with Mr Harper as a spokesman - maintains that there are unchanged (?) pre-requisites for a solution on their side.

Pity the poor passenger, and the long term future of the rail industry and those who work there - but let's hope and encourage works towards a solution - that there may be opportunities in discussions to move forward.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on November 25, 2022, 06:26:08
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63746412)

Quote
Train strikes: Minister hopes Christmas walkouts can be stopped

[snip]

But Mr Harper has now agreed to help both sides come back to the table and will write to RMT boss Mick Lynch setting out the terms under which talks can take place.

Mr Harper said there was a "shared agreement" that the dispute had gone on for too long, but would not commit to offering more government money to help resolve the dispute.

Instead he maintained that industry reform was needed to deliver the savings which would enable a "reasonable pay rise" for staff.

[snip]

So as I read it, they're having talks about talks, and whilst they share an agreement that the dispute has gone on too long (!!) the government - quoted with Mr Harper as a spokesman - maintains that there are unchanged (?) pre-requisites for a solution on their side.

Pity the poor passenger, and the long term future of the rail industry and those who work there - but let's hope and encourage works towards a solution - that there may be opportunities in discussions to move forward.



Not quite the days of Harrold Wilson's "Beer and Sandwich" meetings at No 10 with the TU's


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2022, 17:25:58
And the view from The Canary (https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2022/11/25/mick-lynch-has-been-rinsing-tv-reporters-as-the-rmt-prepares-to-go-to-war-with-bosses/)

Quote
Rail, Transport and Maritime union (RMT) general secretary Mick Lynch is back on the war path. The straight-talking trade union leader did another round of the TV studios ahead of planned strikes. The results were predictable: posh, smug TV presenters left gaping.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 25, 2022, 17:34:56
And from The Caterer (https://www.thecaterer.com/news/rail-strike-hospitality-cost)

Quote
The next wave of rail strikes over the festive period could cost the hospitality industry an estimated £1.5b a day, UKHospitality has warned.

The trade body said businesses had already seen large-scale cancellations with operators facing their third Christmas in a row with disrupted trading.

It warned the damage caused by eight days of 48-hour strikes in December and January could be of a similar scale to that caused by the Omicron Covid-19 variant on bookings last year.

And from the The Night Time Industries Association (https://completemusicupdate.com/article/pre-christmas-rail-strikes-will-be-catastrophic-for-night-time-economy-says-ntia/)

Quote
The Night Time Industries Association has stressed how damaging the latest rail strikes in the UK will be for bars, clubs, venues and other night-time businesses, coming as they do in the middle of the key Christmas party season.

Indeed, NTIA boss Michael Kill says next month’s strike action will be “catastrophic” for bars, clubs and music venues, fearing that the strikes could result in a big drop in the number of people having nights out in December, certainly on the strike days, and maybe more generally.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: trainbuff on November 25, 2022, 22:22:20
Might it not be the case that it is cheaper to settle? Or are the Government worried that other workers such as nurses will take it as a green light for their pay claims?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on November 26, 2022, 00:11:09
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63742751):
Quote
ScotRail strike off as RMT staff accept pay offer

Staff at ScotRail have accepted an increased pay offer, averting a planned series of strikes.

The RMT had planned to strike next Saturday followed by regular walk-outs on Fridays and Saturdays up to Christmas.

Members were voting on a 5% rise plus an extra £750.

ScotRail said this means wages will rise by 7.5% for staff such as conductors and ticket examiners with an 8.5% increase for lower-paid workers.

Announcing the result of the ballot, the RMT said 67.7% of members who voted opted to accept the offer which the union had recommended.

However the deal is separate to the ongoing pay dispute and industrial action being taken by Network Rail staff who are members of the RMT.

The strikes were temporarily suspended on 10 November after ScotRail made the improved pay offer.

As part of the improved deal, minimum flat rate pay has been increased to £10.50 per hour and a no compulsory redundancies guarantee has also been increased from five to six years.

The current agreement on rest day working has been extended until 31 October 2023.

I guess that sets a marker, if not exactly a going rate.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 26, 2022, 17:11:15
it's a funny old world ...

Quote
14:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:07 has run as scheduled.

Additional Information

We're sorry for any changes this brings to your travel plans today.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 26, 2022, 18:19:05
The 1030 was standing in the aisles, as was the connecting RDG-OXF from Dicot. Seems as though the strikes aren’t putting people off travelling


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: BBM on November 26, 2022, 19:49:34
I was at PAD tonight and I saw the 1732 departure for Bristol TM which likewise was rammed full with staff preventing further passengers from attempting to join it.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on November 26, 2022, 20:15:38
I cycled past Combe station earlier and the display was apologising that there would be no services from this station today due to strike action.

Those pesky strikers, depriving Combe of its 0tph Saturday service.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: rogerw on November 26, 2022, 20:44:00
My journeys to and from London today were fairly uneventful. 0730 BRI - PAD full and standing from Swindon. The trolley managed to get as far as coach G where I was before running into the jam, thanks to the TM moving people down the train. The 1732 Pad - BRI was full but no standing passengers in coach C. Depsite there being no other trains it still managed to lose 17 minutes on its journey, none of it station overtime. My trip on the British Pullman was superb


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 27, 2022, 09:03:16
I was at PAD tonight and I saw the 1732 departure for Bristol TM which likewise was rammed full with staff preventing further passengers from attempting to join it.

Real Time Trains reported all trains that ran were 9 or 10 carriages; thankful for small mercies!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Mark A on November 27, 2022, 12:09:29
Now, when will Bath Spa's train service have been 100% powered by steam as might have been the case yesterday?

Here's an, er... 'technically flawed'... video clip of the return trip of said steam loco, passing that footbridge in Sydney Gardens.

Note to self, if you're simultaneously recording a video, turning 80 degrees and walking back six paces, you're lucky if the second half of the video didn't record only sky and tree branches.

In the early evening gloom, an impressive and alarming amount of light from the firebox, greatly helped by being carried and reflected by the steam and smoke it found in its path. Alarming as the flicker indicates a small light source, but the spread of light helped by the steam made it appear as though something far more sinister was afoot - it was briefly like witnessing an electricity substation transformer short-circult and fire, but yellow light rather than blue.

Mark

https://twitter.com/markannand/status/1596579393479970816



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on November 29, 2022, 09:51:14
Mark's been writing to his new pen-pal Mick (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/letter-from-the-secretary-of-state-for-transport-to-the-general-secretary-of-the-rmt).
Quote
                                                                            28 November 2022
Dear Mr Lynch,

Thank you for meeting me last week; it was constructive and positive.

We both agree the industrial dispute on the railways has gone on too long. It’s bad for your members, losing out on pay and overtime, bad for businesses who depend on trains to bring them goods and customers and bad for people across our country who depend on the railways. Worse, disruption pushes more and more people away from using the railways, some of whom will never come back. We both want a long-term sustainable railway that provides both great service and rewarding jobs. Every day’s industrial action makes that harder to deliver.

There is a way forwards to meet everyone’s needs. By modernising working practices, we can deliver the savings that lower post-Covid passenger numbers require, restore financial sustainability and not place an unfair burden on taxpayers. My role is to facilitate and support – not negotiate. Negotiations will continue between trade unions and employers, but I can see scope for agreement.
Let me set out how I think we can help support that. Better information sharing between the Rail Minister, trade unions and those leading the negotiations on behalf of the employers can speed up this process. We will soon convene a further meeting to help advance, with the good faith of all parties, settlement discussions and progress in this dispute.

I want to work with you and employers in good faith to help resolve these long-standing issues, and help the employers and you reach a resolution that is fair to all. I would hope this will lead to progress that will allow you to call off industrial action.

Yours sincerely,
Rt Hon Mark Harper MP
SECRETARY OF STATE FOR TRANSPORT


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 04, 2022, 17:20:45
LBC news reports that The Rail Delivery Group has offered the RMT a pay rise of 8% over two years with a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies to April 2024 in a bid to head off fresh strike.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 04, 2022, 17:22:40
Isn't that an 'old' offer - been on the table for weeks. They're looking for this amount over one yaer, with additional for any 'modernisation' I thought


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 04, 2022, 17:48:21
Seems it's the one still on the table - RailAdvent with more (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2022/12/rail-strikes-train-companies-offer-framework-agreement-in-hope-ending-national-dispute.html)

Quote
The Rail Delivery Group has said that train companies have offered the RMT union a framework agreement that would support pay increases up to 8%.

The plans will also see ‘vital and long overdue’ changes to working agreements to secure the future of the railways.

Included in the plans is a guarantee on no compulsory redundancies until the 1st April 2024.

These proposals give the union an opportunity to call of planned action which is currently set to start on the 13th December.

The reformed principles include

 - Current voluntary working agreements on the railways will be formalised
 - Use of part-time contracts and flexible working rosters to encourage a more diverse workforce
 - A new Multi-Skilled Station Worker Role will be created with station staff trained and equipped to take on a range of
   responsibilties.

A spokesperson from the Rail Delivery Group, said: “This is a fair and affordable offer in challenging times, providing a significant uplift in salary for staff. If approved by the RMT, implementation could be fast-tracked to ensure staff go into Christmas secure in the knowledge that they will receive this enhanced pay award early in the New Year alongside a guarantee of job security until April 2024.

“With revenue stuck at 20% below pre-pandemic levels and many working practices unchanged in decades, taxpayers who have contributed £1,800 per household to keep the railway running in recent years, will balk at continuing to pump billions of pounds a year into an industry that desperately needs to move forward with long-overdue reforms and that alienates potential customers with sustained industrial action.

“We urge the RMT leadership to put this offer to its membership and remove the threat of a month of industrial action over Christmas that will upset the travel plans of millions and cause real hardship for businesses which depend on Christmas custom. Instead, we urge the RMT to move forward together with us and so we can give our people a pay rise and deliver an improved railway with a sustainable, long-term future for those who work on it.”

Needs to be called off by Tuesday in order that normal working can be reinstated for the December strike days.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 04, 2022, 17:58:46
From the BBC......

BBC News - Train strikes: Firms make first offer in bid to stop Christmas strikes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63853669


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on December 04, 2022, 19:09:30
Isn't that an 'old' offer - been on the table for weeks. They're looking for this amount over one yaer, with additional for any 'modernisation' I thought

for Network rail staff,yes, but this is the first offer made by the RDG on behalf of the rail operators, only taken half-a-year or more.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bradshaw on December 04, 2022, 19:13:13
Just been turned down

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-reject-rail-delivery-group-offer/


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on December 04, 2022, 19:40:55
Isn't that an 'old' offer - been on the table for weeks. They're looking for this amount over one yaer, with additional for any 'modernisation' I thought

for Network rail staff,yes, but this is the first offer made by the RDG on behalf of the rail operators, only taken half-a-year or more.

The NR offer may stand a chance,


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 04, 2022, 19:46:36
Just been turned down

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-reject-rail-delivery-group-offer/

Closure of "all" ticket offices? Is that actually what the RDG offer says? And "huge" job losses?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 04, 2022, 20:01:22
No compulsory losses....redesigned multi-skilled station staff including ticket sellers in ticket machine areas.

Anyone care to explain what these are please?

Quote
12. Review of Stood Off arrangements;


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on December 04, 2022, 20:09:06
No compulsory losses....redesigned multi-skilled station staff including ticket sellers in ticket machine areas.

Anyone care to explain what these are please?

Quote
12. Review of Stood Off arrangements;

From The RMT (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/publications/stood-off-arrangements-pamphlet/) - this is from the introduction of a 24 page document.

Quote
The arrangements usually known as “Stood-Off” are a set of longstanding agreements established under British Rail that are still in place with Network Rail for staff who are certified as unable to continue in their own role, but are able for alternate duties - Suitable Alternative Work.

Members mirror at http://www.passenger.chat/mirror/stoodoffcospamphletweb.pdf


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 04, 2022, 20:21:07
No compulsory losses....redesigned multi-skilled station staff including ticket sellers in ticket machine areas.

Anyone care to explain what these are please?

Quote
12. Review of Stood Off arrangements;

So the RMT are completely misrepresenting the RDG position with phrases like "closure of all ticket offices" and "huge job losses"


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 04, 2022, 20:28:21
There are staff who just can't do a shift on their feet. We've got a couple in our local ticket office. What position might be found for them is worrying them a lot, and are probably what the RMT are referring to.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on December 04, 2022, 20:51:47
No compulsory losses....redesigned multi-skilled station staff including ticket sellers in ticket machine areas.

Anyone care to explain what these are please?

Quote
12. Review of Stood Off arrangements;

So the RMT are completely misrepresenting the RDG position with phrases like "closure of all ticket offices" and "huge job losses"

I do not think the RMT are miss representing the RDG aka DfT position ................. the shift is to the TfL model self-service ticket machines with a member of staff on hand, at National rail stations this could mean even more and larger stations unattended by staff


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on December 04, 2022, 21:24:49
Reading the missives from both sides it does appear to me that the RMT are indeed misrepresenting the Rail Delivery Group's offer and its conditions.

And once again we see the RMT turn down an offer without putting it to a membership vote.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bradshaw on December 04, 2022, 22:04:16
RDG offer, 4% this year plus 4% next year plus
Quote
   The proposed principles for reforming working practices include:

To meet the growing demand for weekend leisure travel, particularly on Sundays, current voluntary working arrangements across the railways will be formalised
Use of part-time contracts and flexible working rosters and patterns to encourage a more diverse workforce who can fit shifts around other commitments
The creation of a new multi-skilled station worker role, with station staff trained and equipped to take on a range of responsibilities aimed at better meeting the needs of customers

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/employers-offer-rmt-a-framework-agreement-to-end-national-dispute-and-save-christmas

RMT
Quote
.  The RDG is offering 4% in 2022 and 2023 which is conditional on RMT members accepting vast changes to working practices, huge job losses, Driver Only Operated (DOO) trains on all companies and the closure of all ticket offices.

Key points within the RDG's determinantal proposals:

1. That all Workforce Changes are accepted without reservation or industrial action;
2. Closure of all ticket offices and displacement of all retail staff;
3. Creation of a new multi-skilled station grades;
4. A mass job severance programme;
5. Driver-Only Operation of trains in all companies and on all passenger services;
6. New arrangements for mandatory Sunday working;
7. A review of all On-Train Catering services leading to cutbacks in provision and jobs;
8. Review of Fleet grades’ working practices and depot driving;
9. Flexible working contracts, working and rosters;
10. Mandatory adoption of new technology with no payment;
11. New Attendance Management scheme;
12. Review of Stood Off arrangements;
13. New annual leave and sick pay arrangements

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-reject-rail-delivery-group-offer/



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on December 05, 2022, 07:24:00
RDG offer, 4% this year plus 4% next year plus
Quote
   The proposed principles for reforming working practices include:

To meet the growing demand for weekend leisure travel, particularly on Sundays, current voluntary working arrangements across the railways will be formalised
Use of part-time contracts and flexible working rosters and patterns to encourage a more diverse workforce who can fit shifts around other commitments
The creation of a new multi-skilled station worker role, with station staff trained and equipped to take on a range of responsibilities aimed at better meeting the needs of customers

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/employers-offer-rmt-a-framework-agreement-to-end-national-dispute-and-save-christmas

RMT
Quote
.  The RDG is offering 4% in 2022 and 2023 which is conditional on RMT members accepting vast changes to working practices, huge job losses, Driver Only Operated (DOO) trains on all companies and the closure of all ticket offices.

Key points within the RDG's determinantal proposals:

1. That all Workforce Changes are accepted without reservation or industrial action;
2. Closure of all ticket offices and displacement of all retail staff;
3. Creation of a new multi-skilled station grades;
4. A mass job severance programme;
5. Driver-Only Operation of trains in all companies and on all passenger services;
6. New arrangements for mandatory Sunday working;
7. A review of all On-Train Catering services leading to cutbacks in provision and jobs;
8. Review of Fleet grades’ working practices and depot driving;
9. Flexible working contracts, working and rosters;
10. Mandatory adoption of new technology with no payment;
11. New Attendance Management scheme;
12. Review of Stood Off arrangements;
13. New annual leave and sick pay arrangements

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-reject-rail-delivery-group-offer/


From the RDG letter -
"Use of part-time contracts and flexible working rosters and patterns to encourage a more diverse workforce who can fit shifts around other commitments" I suspect the Unions will see this as a move to the introduction of zero hours contracts


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bradshaw on December 05, 2022, 09:05:41
My impression was that this offer expected to be rejected and was aimed at showing the RMT in a bad light. Hence the 8% headline with no mention that it was over two years and no mention of the changes to T & C.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on December 05, 2022, 09:11:11
I do remember reading somewhere the RDG wanted an expansion of DOO routes.
Something I disagree with (non railwayman/person).  It is invaluable to have a train manager/guard and also catering personnel on board.
Totally with the membership.
Very little to do with the headline 8% but it's the small print that matters more.
A UK rail service, all DOO, and all on zero hours contracts. Ideal.  What could possibly go wrong  :(


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 05, 2022, 09:14:35
The RDG principles seem well thought out and reflect the modern and evolving environment in which overall demand for rail services (and revenue) has fallen as a consequence of new working patterns and less business travel, balanced against some increases in leisure travel and the need to embrace that opportunity to offset the reduction elsewhere.

It also acknowledges that far fewer people need the services of ticket offices and instead the railway needs to raise its game and be more oriented to the needs of customers, not just its employees.

These and similar lessons have been learned elsewhere in business and the wider economy over several decades now - some organisations have not adapted, and as such some are no longer in business.

When you read the response from the RMT you can almost hear the fists banging on the table and the feet stamping.

It would be interesting to ask Bruvver Lynch for a list of changes to the status quo which he'd be prepared to accept (Given that the membership don't seem to get a vote any more). I suspect it would be rather short.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on December 05, 2022, 18:57:26
Further strike announced by the RMT. 6pm on Christmas Eve until 6am on 27th December.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 05, 2022, 19:02:54
Meaning shut down *by* 6pm I think? So very few long distance services after lunchtime, and most others by 4pm


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 05, 2022, 19:09:12
RMT membership on the Network Rail side getting a chance to vote on their offer with a recommendation to reject it from the union.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on December 05, 2022, 19:19:11
I'm borrowing a car from 24th - 27th December. Although collecting it and taking it back is now looking more difficult thanks to this latest RMT announcement.

I may now have to cancel plans to attend a gathering of my family planned for the 24h - some not seen since before the pandemic.

Thank you very much Bruvver Lynch. Merry f****** Christmas to you.
 >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 05, 2022, 19:40:04
“There is no good time to have a strike. We have left the Christmas period strike-free deliberately” - Mick Lynch


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on December 05, 2022, 20:51:57
Meaning shut down *by* 6pm I think? So very few long distance services after lunchtime, and most others by 4pm

Ah - maybe issues with 1X01 this year then.   Which union are the crew members of?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on December 05, 2022, 20:54:51
Meaning shut down *by* 6pm I think? So very few long distance services after lunchtime, and most others by 4pm

Ah - maybe issues with 1X01 this year then.   Which union are the crew members of?

ASLEIGHF?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Hafren on December 05, 2022, 21:05:24
Meaning shut down *by* 6pm I think? So very few long distance services after lunchtime, and most others by 4pm

From a quick look around, it's the usual no booking on during that time. So the final cutoff is what time the next shifts after 6pm start.

Similarly, would morning shifts typically start before or after 6am on the 27? That could make a big difference to how useful the service is that day.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 06, 2022, 12:18:34
Bear in mind these additional strike days are on Network Rail, not the TOCs. So maintenance & signallers. I understand that at TVSC at least, & therefore probably other boxes, there is a shift that changes over around teatime, so between 5 & 7pm. Always thought it strange that a changeover happens during the evening peak.

RMT also quoted by Sky News saying shut down on Xmas Eve will be earlier than usual.

And there’s a shift change hust before/at 6am, so bo trains until after the following shift change…maybe very late in the day before they book on on 27th.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 06, 2022, 12:23:51
TSSA have called off strike action and recommended acceptance of their pay offer


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on December 06, 2022, 12:50:00
Bear in mind these additional strike days are on Network Rail, not the TOCs. So maintenance & signallers. ...

I find myself wondering if these dates have been chosen because they'll apply more pressure to Network Rail, hitting the major engineering works at Christmas program which can't easily be moved back a couple of weeks.   Also popular with staff who, perhaps, don't want to work Christmas.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 06, 2022, 13:10:19
Yep,I reckon so!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 06, 2022, 13:18:00
Bear in mind these additional strike days are on Network Rail, not the TOCs. So maintenance & signallers. ...

I find myself wondering if these dates have been chosen because they'll apply more pressure to Network Rail, hitting the major engineering works at Christmas program which can't easily be moved back a couple of weeks.   Also popular with staff who, perhaps, don't want to work Christmas.

I presume those working on Christmas Day/Boxing day would be receiving pretty chunky overtime rates to do so, hence it might not be quite so popular........notwithstanding Bruvver Mick's overtime ban.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 06, 2022, 14:44:36
He cancelled that at the same time as announcing these dates


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on December 06, 2022, 15:34:26
Bear in mind these additional strike days are on Network Rail, not the TOCs. So maintenance & signallers. ...

I find myself wondering if these dates have been chosen because they'll apply more pressure to Network Rail, hitting the major engineering works at Christmas program which can't easily be moved back a couple of weeks.   Also popular with staff who, perhaps, don't want to work Christmas.

Yep - from New Civil Engineer (https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/christmas-strikes-will-disrupt-120m-of-planned-network-rail-engineering-upgrades-06-12-2022/)

Quote
Network Rail’s planned £120M engineering works for the festive period could be severely affected if the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) members’ walk out between 24 and 27 December goes ahead.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on December 06, 2022, 17:52:41
Bear in mind these additional strike days are on Network Rail, not the TOCs. So maintenance & signallers. ...

I find myself wondering if these dates have been chosen because they'll apply more pressure to Network Rail, hitting the major engineering works at Christmas program which can't easily be moved back a couple of weeks.   Also popular with staff who, perhaps, don't want to work Christmas.

Yes and that is the intent.

Plans are being drawn up to take possession required early before the strike over Christmas to allow the contractors to deliver their work these projects do not heavily relay on NR staff to do the work.  Also any inhouse maintenance work that would be done over the Christmas week by NR staff is likely to be cancelled.

The Unions may have lifted the overtime ban but NR senior managers are ignoring the lifting of the ban and are planning as if its still in place


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 06, 2022, 17:54:47
I find myself wondering if these dates have been chosen because they'll apply more pressure to Network Rail, hitting the major engineering works at Christmas program which can't easily be moved back a couple of weeks.   Also popular with staff who, perhaps, don't want to work Christmas.

Yep - from New Civil Engineer (https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/christmas-strikes-will-disrupt-120m-of-planned-network-rail-engineering-upgrades-06-12-2022/)

Mick Lynch has said so himself: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/06/union-leader-mick-lynch-defends-uk-rail-strikes-over-christmas


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bradshaw on December 07, 2022, 18:03:50
This morning the SoS was being questioned by the Transport Committee. Then Ben Bradshaw aske the SoS if he could say -Yes or No- whether No10 or the Treasury had insisted on the DOO clause being added at the last minute, just when a deal was likely. He did not answer the question.
Seen around or just past 10.21.00 on the link below

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/20875a20-10d7-4d50-868a-d1f6b8776b14


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on December 07, 2022, 20:22:35
This morning the SoS was being questioned by the Transport Committee. Then Ben Bradshaw aske the SoS if he could say -Yes or No- whether No10 or the Treasury had insisted on the DOO clause being added at the last minute, just when a deal was likely. He did not answer the question.
Seen around or just past 10.21.00 on the link below

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/20875a20-10d7-4d50-868a-d1f6b8776b14

That is a 'Yes' then!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on December 08, 2022, 06:32:49
This morning the SoS was being questioned by the Transport Committee. Then Ben Bradshaw aske the SoS if he could say -Yes or No- whether No10 or the Treasury had insisted on the DOO clause being added at the last minute, just when a deal was likely. He did not answer the question.
Seen around or just past 10.21.00 on the link below

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/20875a20-10d7-4d50-868a-d1f6b8776b14

That is a 'Yes' then!

Its called Plausible Deniability

Plausible deniability is the ability of people, typically senior officials in a formal or informal chain of command, to deny knowledge of or responsibility for any damnable actions committed by members of their organizational hierarchy.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 08, 2022, 14:55:52
ASLEF second ballot result for GWR has delivered another strong six month strike mandate:

Yes: 1,126 [91.5%]

No: 105 [8.5%]

Turnout: 84.1%


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 08, 2022, 15:11:53
Woah! It seems that these strikes are going to be far more disruptive than previous RMT strike days. For example, Chiltern:

Quote
Industrial action short of a strike is planned to take place from 13 December – 8 January inclusive.

I thought this was cancelled when they announced the NR strikes 24-27 December? This means for them, on top of only services 0800-1600 on strike days -

Quote
During this time there will be no Chiltern Railways service operating north of Banbury.

There will be no Chiltern Railways on any route on Sunday 18th December.

Services will operate from around 0800-1600 for most of this period.

During times of operation, there will be four Chiltern Railways services per hour in each direction: 

One train per hour (each direction) between London Marylebone and Banbury
One train per hour (each direction) between London Marylebone and Oxford Parkway
One train per hour (each direction) between London Marylebone and Aylesbury via High Wycombe
One train per hour (each direction) between Aylesbury Vale Parkway and Amersham.

every day from 13 December to 8 January inclusive, not just strike days

Not heard from GWR or any others that disruption will be this widespread....can this be correct?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on December 09, 2022, 07:33:27
Reposting the link to GWR’s strike page as there is a LOT of new information on what’s running between the 13th of December and the 8th of January including when revised timetables will be available on journey planners. A bit of a long read, but worth it if you are travelling on GWR over the next few weeks:

www.gwr.com/strike


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 12, 2022, 16:29:32
RMT members reject latest Network Rail pay rise offer

From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2022/12/rmt-members-reject-latest-network-rail-pay-rise-offer.html)

Quote
The RMT Union has announced that its members have voted to reject the latest offer from Network Rail.

It means that all strike action planned for this week, over the Christmas period and into the new year, will go ahead as planned.

63.6% of members opted to reject the offer of 5% and 4% pay rise over a two year period.

However, the RMT union also says that the pay rises came with a 50% cut in maintenance tasks, job losses and a 30% increase in unsocialable hours.

RMT General Secretary Mick Lynch said: “This is a huge rejection of Network Rail’s substandard offer and shows that our members are determined to take further strike action in pursuit of a negotiated settlement.

“The government is refusing to lift a finger to prevent these strikes and it is clear they want to make effective strike action illegal in Britain.

“We will resist that and our members, along with the entire trade union movement will continue their campaign for a square deal for workers, decent pay increases and good working conditions.”


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 13, 2022, 12:52:13
RMT members reject latest Network Rail pay rise offer

An interesting result that.  63.6% 'no' with a 83% turnout is not enough to call 'emphatic' in my opinion, though is still a message that there is some way to go still to find a settlement.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 13, 2022, 14:04:15
A short video message from Mick Whelan regarding the ASLEF dispute:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VuKzgoG-9ws


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 13, 2022, 14:06:05
TSSA Union announces CrossCountry strike action on Boxing Day and 27th

From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2022/12/tssa-union-announces-crosscountry-strike-action-on-boxing-day.html)

Quote
The TSSA Union has announced that strike action, affecting CrossCountry services, will be carried out on Boxing Day and the 27th December in a dispute over pay, job security and conditions.

Union members will walkout from 9pm on Boxing Day until 9pm on the 27th December.

The union wants a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies, no changes to conditions and a pay increase.

This action replaces the strike action at CrossCountry by TSSA on 17th December, action which has now been cancelled. Action short of a strike set for the 16th and 17th December remains in place.

At CrossCountry, TSSA members carry out a number of roles including Customer Service Managers (CSM), Driver Managers (DTM), Trainers, Control, Customer Communications, Safety, Timetabling and Planning.

TSSA  Organising Director, Nadine Rae. said: “Our members at CrossCountry do not want to strike, especially over the Christmas holiday period, but they are sick and tired of being taken for granted.

“They deserve a pay rise to help manage the escalating cost of living, and they rightly demand job security. The company, like all the train operators under the control of the Department for Transport, need to face up to the fact that only serious offers which meet our aspirations will end this dispute.

“Rail workers are seeking basic fair treatment: not to be sacked from their jobs; a fair pay rise in the face of a cost-of-living-crisis; and no race to the bottom on terms and conditions.

“Make no mistake we will again see trains coming to a halt unless rail bosses and the government do the right thing for our members and our precious rail network which so many people rely on.”

TSSA action partly overlaps with action by the RMT and continues into 27 December as TSSA-only strike action.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Ollie on December 13, 2022, 22:46:43
TSSA Union announces GWR strike action 12:00 on Wednesday 28th December 2022 to 11:59 on Thursday 29th December 2022

From TSSA https://www.tssa.org.uk/find-your-company/great-western-railway/news/gwr-tssa-announces-further-strike-action-in-gwr

Quote
Members will be instructed not to commence work on any shift starting between:

12:00 on Wednesday 28th December 2022 to 11:59 on Thursday 29th December 2022

What if I'm due to start work before 12:00 (noon) on Wednesday 28th December? If you are due to commence work on Wednesday 28th December before noon then you should start and finish that period of work/shift, however if your work/shift commences at anytime within the period of strike action (between 12:00 noon 28 December and 11:59 Thursday 29th December) then none of that work/shift should be carried out even if it is due to end after 11:59 on Thursday 29th December.

This is in addition to the Action Short of Strike that has previously been called and is currently active running until 23:59 on Sunday 8th January 2023

Quote is just a snippet of what is available on the link above the quote.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Marlburian on December 14, 2022, 13:30:50
Surprised no-one has mentioned the Mick Lynch radio interview (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/mick-lynch-prompts-online-divide-radio-4-today-programme_uk_63986171e4b09e0de4964f9d) yesterday morning on Radio Four.

Many other reports are available, including the actual broadcast on The Spectator website (https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/youre-parroting-the-most-right-wing-stuff-you-can-get-hold-of-mick-lynch-blasts-bbc/).

There was a follow-up on this morning's "Today", with the presenter noting criticism of Lynch from most papers except the Guardian. And a couple of figures were given for what his union members are losing from being on strike.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on December 14, 2022, 15:25:51
The current government often accuses the BBC of having a left wing bias. Mick Grynch accuses them of having a right wing bias.

That, to me, shows the BBC is getting it right.

The Grynch also didn't come across well on Good Morning Britain yesterday. Attacking those asking the questions, or bleating about the type of question being asked is not a good look.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on December 16, 2022, 23:27:53
TSSA announced yesterday (https://www.tssa.org.uk/news-and-events/tssa-news/tssa-members-accept-network-rail-offer) that their members at Network Rail had voted to accept the latest offer.
Quote
TSSA members at Network Rail have voted overwhelmingly to accept an offer from the company in the national rail dispute over pay, job security and conditions. 85% of members voted yes on a 70% turnout.

The offer is worth a minimum 9-11% consolidated pay increase over the next fortnight, in addition to other financial rewards, job security to 2025 and guarantees on terms and conditions.

The vast majority – 85% - of those who voted out of 2,500 union members in General Grades, Bands 5-8 (and equivalent), and Controllers - made the decision in a referendum which closed earlier today.

Accept: 85%   

Reject: 15%

Turnout: 70%

The deal includes -

*A no compulsory redundancy agreement until 31 January 2025.

*A minimum pay uplift of at least £1,750 or a 5 per cent increase (whichever is greater) backdated to 1 January 2022 (an increase of over 5 per cent for anyone earning less than £35,000). This is worth at least 7% to staff earning £25,000 or less.

*A 4 per cent pay increase from 1 January 2023

*No unagreed changes to terms and conditions, plus more benefits.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on December 17, 2022, 07:09:05
TSSA announced yesterday (https://www.tssa.org.uk/news-and-events/tssa-news/tssa-members-accept-network-rail-offer) that their members at Network Rail had voted to accept the latest offer.
Quote
TSSA members at Network Rail have voted overwhelmingly to accept an offer from the company in the national rail dispute over pay, job security and conditions. 85% of members voted yes on a 70% turnout.

The offer is worth a minimum 9-11% consolidated pay increase over the next fortnight, in addition to other financial rewards, job security to 2025 and guarantees on terms and conditions.

The vast majority – 85% - of those who voted out of 2,500 union members in General Grades, Bands 5-8 (and equivalent), and Controllers - made the decision in a referendum which closed earlier today.

Accept: 85%   

Reject: 15%

Turnout: 70%

The deal includes -

*A no compulsory redundancy agreement until 31 January 2025.

*A minimum pay uplift of at least £1,750 or a 5 per cent increase (whichever is greater) backdated to 1 January 2022 (an increase of over 5 per cent for anyone earning less than £35,000). This is worth at least 7% to staff earning £25,000 or less.

*A 4 per cent pay increase from 1 January 2023

*No unagreed changes to terms and conditions, plus more benefits.

That is 2 of the Unions that have accepted the offer, NR are now in the process of awarding this to the 2 "Bargaining Groups" these Unions cover Signallers, Control, Technical grades typically.

Whether they will cross RMT picket lines is another matter


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 17, 2022, 08:07:10
As I understand it, this is part of the deal;

Revised rostering

39 weekends a year

Mandatory Xmas working

Must stay on for up to 2hrs extra when required

Cross discipline tasks mandated

.......others are probably better placed to add detail


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on December 17, 2022, 08:36:29
Whether they will cross RMT picket lines is another matter

Wouldn't that be deemed unballoted, or secondary, action and thus illegal?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 17, 2022, 09:11:00
Whether they will cross RMT picket lines is another matter

Wouldn't that be deemed unballoted, or secondary, action and thus illegal?

Good question - can you be obliged to cross a picket line at your place of work, even if it's not your Union that's on strike, and a different Union forming the picket?

I'm thinking back to the Miners strike, with lorry drivers, pit deputies etc, although with that example the intimidation was on different scale and I believe the law was changed as a result.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on December 17, 2022, 09:47:36
As I understand it, this is part of the deal;

Revised rostering

39 weekends a year

Mandatory Xmas working

Must stay on for up to 2hrs extra when required

Cross discipline tasks mandated

.......others are probably better placed to add detail

That is the part that the RMT members in maintenance have objections to.   

For the rolls covered by TSSA and Unite a lot of that happens already with the exception of the cross discipline activity which is actually aimed at maintenance; many of maintenance managers and engineers believe this will take several years to implement fully and its a bit of a Government myth that teams do not work collaboratively in maintenance and the idea of one van with all disciplines is Government hype, mixing items like Signalling Track Circuit Relays in with PW track fastenings would be an expensive mistake.   There is of course a need to modernise how maintenance is done, at the moment there is a bit of a sledge hammer to crack a walnut going on


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on December 17, 2022, 13:27:22
Whether they will cross RMT picket lines is another matter

Wouldn't that be deemed unballoted, or secondary, action and thus illegal?

Good question - can you be obliged to cross a picket line at your place of work, even if it's not your Union that's on strike, and a different Union forming the picket?

I'm thinking back to the Miners strike, with lorry drivers, pit deputies etc, although with that example the intimidation was on different scale and I believe the law was changed as a result.

If it is not your Union on strike, then you are obliged to cross the picket line if you are rostered for duty.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on December 20, 2022, 11:53:45
From The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64039480)

Quote
Train drivers across 15 rail companies will stage a fresh strike on 5 January in a long-running row over pay, according to the Aslef union.

The walkout will go ahead between strikes already announced by the RMT rail union, running between 3-4 and 6-7 January.
Aslef said that train drivers had voted overwhelmingly to take action.

"We don't want to go on strike but the companies have pushed us into this place," said Aslef boss Mick Whelan.

Yes, GWR are one of the 15 listed rail companies ...


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 20, 2022, 12:00:20
From the ASLEF press release (https://aslef.org.uk/publications/aslef-train-drivers-union-announces-new-strike-date)

Quote
ASLEF, the train drivers’ union, has announced another one-day strike on Thursday 5 January after members at 15 train companies voted overwhelmingly for more walk-outs in a long-running dispute over pay.

The strike will bring services on affected lines to a halt and comes as more and more people in many different sectors of the economy are withdrawing their labour as employers refuse to help their employees during this cost of living crisis.

‘We don’t want to go on strike but the companies have pushed us into this place,’ said Mick Whelan, general secretary of ASLEF, which represents 96% of the train drivers in England, Scotland, and Wales. ‘They have not offered our members at these companies a penny – and these are people who have not had an increase since April 2019.

‘That means they expect train drivers at these companies to take a real-terms pay cut – to work just as hard for considerably less – when inflation is running at north of 14%.’

Mick added: ‘The train companies say their hands have been tied by the government. While the government – which does not employ us – says it’s up to the companies to negotiate with us. We are always happy to negotiate – we never refuse to sit down at the table and talk – but these companies have offered us nothing. And that is unacceptable.’

ASLEF had to ballot members again as a mandate, under the law, is only valid for six months. And members voted overwhelmingly – again – to take strike action.

‘The resolve of our members is rock steady,’ said Mick. ‘A 93% “Yes” vote – up on the very high figure last time – on an average turnout of 85% shows that our members are in this for the long haul. It shows just how angry – and determined – we are.

‘We now have a new mandate for industrial action for the next six months. The way to stop this is for the companies to make a serious and sensible offer and for the government not to put a spoke in the wheels.

‘We don’t want to inconvenience passengers – our friends and families use the railway, too, and we believe in investing in rail for the future of our country – and drivers don’t want to lose a day’s pay. That’s why strikes are always a last resort. But the intransigent attitude of the train companies – with the government acting, with malice, in the shadows – has forced our hand.

‘Because these drivers – who were, don’t forget, the people who moved key workers and goods around the country during the pandemic – have not had a pay rise for nearly four years.

‘With inflation running at 14% the companies – and the government – are saying that they want us to take a real-terms pay cut. The companies need to come to the table with a proper proposal to help our members, their drivers, buy this year what they could buy last year. That is the way to prevent another strike and all the disruption that causes. The ball is now firmly in the train companies’ court. And we are calling on the government to help – and not hinder – the negotiating process.’

 
Notes to editors:

[1] The companies affected include Avanti West Coast; Chiltern Railways; CrossCountry; East Midlands Railway; Great Western Railway; Greater Anglia; GTR Great Northern Thameslink; London North Eastern Railway; Northern Trains; Southeastern; Southern/Gatwick Express; South Western Railway (depot drivers only); SWR Island Line; TransPennine Express; and West Midlands Trains.

[2] We have already called five one-day strikes this year – drivers withdrew their labour on Saturday 30 July; Saturday 13 August; Saturday 1 October, Wednesday 5 October; and Saturday 26 November.

[3] We have successfully negotiated pay deals with 12 train companies this year – DB Cargo; Eurostar; Freightliner Heavy Haul; Freightliner Intermodal; GB Railfreight; Grand Central; Merseyrail; MTR Elizabeth line; Nexus; PRE Metro Operations; ScotRail; and Transport for Wales – and are in dispute only with those companies which have failed to offer their drivers – our members – anything. Drivers who have not have an increase since 2019.

In addition, an offer from Arriva Rail London (London Overground) has been put to members with a recommendation to accept.

I assume midnight to midnight as no times specified....


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on December 20, 2022, 12:19:55
Whether they will cross RMT picket lines is another matter

Wouldn't that be deemed unballoted, or secondary, action and thus illegal?

Good question - can you be obliged to cross a picket line at your place of work, even if it's not your Union that's on strike, and a different Union forming the picket?

I'm thinking back to the Miners strike, with lorry drivers, pit deputies etc, although with that example the intimidation was on different scale and I believe the law was changed as a result.

If it is not your Union on strike, then you are obliged to cross the picket line if you are rostered for duty.

That's not strictly true.  People in the same work place as a strike can choose not to cross a picket line, however they will loose a that shift pay, be marked as absent, they must inform their line manager of their decision otherwise they will be marked as absent without leave which could lead to a disciplinary.

At the moment the dispute has not got to the stage where staff have been instructed to cross picket lines and I doubt it will get to that stage by the Railway employers unless they are threatened by Government the risk here is the current staff who are volunteering to do task out of their normal roll would cease to volunteer or just work to contract


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on December 21, 2022, 19:23:19
Why are train operators seemingly lying this week about staff availability? There are numerous reports of crew rooms full of staff, sat twiddling their thumbs. Meanwhile some TOCs (looking at you SWR) are running up to 50% fewer trains and blaming staff shortages due to union overtime bans.

Are the TOCs having their strings pulled? Are the unions lying about staff availability?

Neither side is able to claim the moral high ground. Meanwhile - sod the travelling public. Selfish, the lot of 'em. >:(


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 21, 2022, 19:26:17
I suspect it's rooms full of ASLEF staff during RMT strike days and vice-versa....


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on December 21, 2022, 19:37:48
I suspect it's rooms full of ASLEF staff during RMT strike days and vice-versa....

Neither are on walk-outs this week. Overtime bans at worst.

So SWR are apparently saying they can only run 47% of their scheduled weekday services without overtime. And staff are saying crew rooms are full of staff doing nothing other than clocking in for their contracted hours.

Someone is lying.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 21, 2022, 20:24:06
Overtime bans imclude depot staff. So little Sunday maintenance, abd reduced maintenance during week too due to overtime ban means reduced stock availability.

The 48 hour strikes mean no maintenance on those days too, mrleaning maintenance regime is well behind, on exams too.

Chiltern having same problems - only enough stock in their case to run 4 tph in each direction, about 10 trains-worth (or 20 units) available each day.

Of course, SWT have electric 4car/5car units & more maintenance depot capacity than Chiltern. But that may still be a limiting factor for them


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on December 21, 2022, 21:41:29
Chiltern having same problems - only enough stock in their case to run 4 tph in each direction, about 10 trains-worth (or 20 units) available each day.

Of course, SWT have electric 4car/5car units & more maintenance depot capacity than Chiltern. But that may still be a limiting factor for them

With 20 serviceable units, 10 trains running each of 2 units is an option, and as I read it that is the normal train length. The other option is to run 20 trains but shorter than normal - and that's going to lead to the sort of thing we see in GWR land on Cardiff to Portsmouth, where a single unit of just 2 cars may be run in place of a scheduled 5 car service.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on December 21, 2022, 22:11:49
Neither are on walk-outs this week. Overtime bans at worst.

So SWR are apparently saying they can only run 47% of their scheduled weekday services without overtime. And staff are saying crew rooms are full of staff doing nothing other than clocking in for their contracted hours.

Someone is lying.
Paul Clifton retweeted this earlier:
https://twitter.com/disgruntledgrd/status/1605600521401913346?s=61&t=f4ZQtM_8E-2AbS3j-QEiOg


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 23, 2022, 18:51:06
With 20 serviceable units, 10 trains running each of 2 units is an option, and as I read it that is the normal train length.

That's effectively what they're doing in 4 routes, as far as Oxford Parkway/Banbury/Aylesbury (via 2 routes), so 4 diagrams @ 1tph each way. For limited hours 0800-2200.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 23, 2022, 19:10:09
Workers on London's new Elizabeth line to walkout in row over pay just weeks after it fully opened

From MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/workers-on-london-s-new-elizabeth-line-to-walkout-in-row-over-pay-just-weeks-after-it-fully-opened/ar-AA15BlLy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1268f251d7674e6c8c1d2aa072590aa4)

Quote
Workers on London's Elizabeth Line will strike on January 12 in a dispute over pay and pensions, Prospect and the TSSA rail union has announced.

The walkouts by staff at Rail for London (Infrastructure) Limited, which runs the Elizabeth Line, will be followed by more than a month of 'work-to-rule' action, in which staff will work contracted hours and shifts only.

Officials said the action will cause 'significant disruption' to the new cross-London line in the first strike since it began to open in May this year.

The announcement comes just weeks after the cross-London line fully opened.

Members of the union will strike in an ongoing dispute over pay and proposed changes to pensions after a ballot with 80 percent turn out saw 90 percent of workers vote to strike.

The Transport Salaried Staffs' Association said staff on parts of the line who are contractors have been offered an 8.2 percent pay rise, while those employed directly have been offered just four percent.

The union rejected an offer of a four percent rise this year and a 4.4 percent rise next year.

TSSA Organiser Mel Taylor said: 'Our members have sent the company a very clear message that they are not prepared to be pushed around on pay and pensions.

'The result of our ballot shows the strength of feeling and that is why we will be moving very quickly to take strike action and action short of a strike in the new year.

'Frankly, we have been left with little option because we know workers at Rail for London Infrastructure (RfLI) are being paid significantly less than equivalent colleagues across the TfL network.

'That is simply not good enough. Our members have the power to bring the Elizabeth Line to a standstill and the company must now wake up to that fact and get back round the table.

'We are always open to talks, but only if there's a much-improved deal in the offing, one which puts our members on a par with those in the outsourced parts of the Elizabeth Line.'

Mike Clancy, general secretary of Prospect, said: 'Our members have worked incredibly hard to get the Elizabeth Line ready to go safely into operation yet are being treated significantly worse than equivalent workers on the rest of London's network.

'They have been left with no option but to take this action.

'We remain open to negotiation and it is our hope that RfLI will come back to the table with an offer sufficient to avert industrial action.

'The Elizabeth Line is bringing in substantial revenue so there is no reason why there can't be some movement on pay.'

Of course, TfL is currently bust, but don't let that bother the TSSA


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on January 03, 2023, 10:22:54
RMT Press release 02/01/23 13:15

Quote
RMT press release 02/01/23 13:15.

RMT calls out government for "blocking" rail resolution ahead of strikes starting tomorrow

40,000 workers on Network Rail and 14 train operating companies will take action on 3,4,6 and 7 this week, shutting down most rail services across the country.

Despite the union's best efforts over the Christmas period, rail employers have not arranged any formal negotiations with RMT to resolve the dispute.

Both Network Rail and the Rail Delivery Group are being directly blocked by government ministers from producing an acceptable proposal on job security, pay and working conditions.

RMT remains available around the clock for talks so all parties can come to a negotiated settlement.

The situation stands in stark contrast to other areas of the railway where the Department for Transport does not have a mandate.

RMT has secured deals with Scotrail, Transport for Wales, contracts on Eurostar and areas where the railway is under the control of metro mayors.

Mick Lynch, RMT general secretary, said: "The government is blocking the union's attempts to reach a negotiated settlement with the rail employers.

"We have worked with the rail industry to reach successful negotiated settlements ever since privatisation in 1993. And we have achieved deals across the network in 2021 and 2022 where the DfT has no involvement.

"Yet in this dispute, there is an unprecedented level of ministerial interference, which is hamstringing rail employers from being able to negotiate a package of measures with us, so we can settle this dispute.

"We will continue our industrial action campaign while we work towards a negotiated resolution."

END

Notes:

RMT has achieved deals in the following areas where DfT has not been involved:

Eurostar International: 8% pay rise 
Eurostar - Mitie security: 10% pay rise for all staff and 29% for the lowest paid.
Scotrail: 7-9% backdated to April this year
Transport for Wales: Between 6.6% and 9.5% pay rise 
Merseyrail: 7% pay rise
MTR Crossrail: 8.2% (2021-2022)
Docklands Light Railway: 9.25%
London Underground: 8.4% (2021)

The 14 train operating companies we are in dispute with alongside Network Rail are as follows:

Chiltern Railways
Cross Country Trains
Greater Anglia,
LNER,
East Midlands Railway,
c2c,
Great Western
Railway,
Northern Trains,
South Eastern
South Western Railway
Transpennine Express,
Avanti West Coast,
West Midlands Trains
GTR (including Gatwick Express


John Millington
RMT Press Officer


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 03, 2023, 11:38:18
There are meetings scheduled with the Rail Minister - for next week.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on January 03, 2023, 17:52:06
There are meetings scheduled with the Rail Minister - for next week.

But the Minister will not talk about pay rise all the Minster will walk to talk about is "efficiencies" and working practices which the Union will take as worse terms & conditions and job cuts


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 03, 2023, 18:24:02
If so, then the Minister has a point, I reckon. It's high time that the union did discuss the ways in which old working practices can be modernised. If that leads to increased staffing for 7 day working within that, then great. But it's a 7 day railway, and everyone needs to recognise that.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 03, 2023, 23:01:28
If so, then the Minister has a point, I reckon. It's high time that the union did discuss the ways in which old working practices can be modernised. If that leads to increased staffing for 7 day working within that, then great. But it's a 7 day railway, and everyone needs to recognise that.

I decide to research railway staffing to add comment - but very difficult to find in history. Not sure these figures compare apples with apples:
1955 - 648,000
1961 - 474,000
2018 - 115,000
but 2018 also lists 250,000 in the "supply chain" and I don't have a clue as to how many of those might have been included in the 1955 and 1961 figures.

What do the figures tell us?  Well - passenger number have risen from the low point on a much smaller network, but small load freight traffic which was staff intensive has been lost.  Locomotives no longer need a fireman as most did in 1955, and there are so many other changes.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on January 04, 2023, 01:48:54
and there are so many other changes.

Another major one being signalling. Thousands of mechanical signal boxes in 1955. Very few left, the vast majority replaced by PSBs, IECCs and ROCs. With the ultimate aim of Network Rail to have just a dozen or so ROCs covering the whole network.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on January 04, 2023, 08:08:37
If so, then the Minister has a point, I reckon. It's high time that the union did discuss the ways in which old working practices can be modernised. If that leads to increased staffing for 7 day working within that, then great. But it's a 7 day railway, and everyone needs to recognise that.

I decide to research railway staffing to add comment - but very difficult to find in history. Not sure these figures compare apples with apples:
1955 - 648,000
1961 - 474,000
2018 - 115,000
but 2018 also lists 250,000 in the "supply chain" and I don't have a clue as to how many of those might have been included in the 1955 and 1961 figures.

What do the figures tell us?  Well - passenger number have risen from the low point on a much smaller network, but small load freight traffic which was staff intensive has been lost.  Locomotives no longer need a fireman as most did in 1955, and there are so many other changes.

All the way through you could add "supply chain" work force numbers, the railways have always relied on external supplies.  Since 2018 the Rail Industry formulised its supplier chain structure with effectively a licence / approved supplier, this is done in a tiered system, it gets difficult to have accurate numbers past tier 2.

and there are so many other changes.

Another major one being signalling. Thousands of mechanical signal boxes in 1955. Very few left, the vast majority replaced by PSBs, IECCs and ROCs. With the ultimate aim of Network Rail to have just a dozen or so ROCs covering the whole network.

Not only the number of Signallers who operated the mechanical boxes there were a lot of S&T staff to maintain the equipment, PWay there are no longer "lengthmen" and local gangs.  Shunters, fright guards, second men, station porters, parcel office staff, traction & rolling stock maintainers, Railway Works

The Rail Industry does not modernise it's working practices, well it has done so since the very first railway and continues too


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on January 04, 2023, 09:34:35
Is it possible that the 1955 & 61 figures may include British Railways' other businesses at the time which have been long since sold off, i.e. ferries, hotels, etc?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 04, 2023, 09:56:34
Is it possible that the 1955 & 61 figures may include British Railways' other businesses at the time which have been long since sold off, i.e. ferries, hotels, etc?

Goodness only knows - though I think the figures came (indirectly - I have not looked it up) from the Beeching report, looking at how the previous closures and modernisation had gone.  Which suggests to me (no more) that the numbers are pure rail. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on January 04, 2023, 11:05:45
From RAIL magazine's Philp Haigh on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1610584623209119749
Quote
NR signallers in RMT union at Thames Valley signalling centre have voted against further strikes in a dispute over a colleague's dismissal. 48 voted from 138 eligible, 25 against and 23 for strikes. Ballot failed to meet legal thresholds as did one for action short of strikes.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on January 04, 2023, 11:48:24
From RAIL magazine's Philp Haigh on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1610584623209119749
Quote
NR signallers in RMT union at Thames Valley signalling centre have voted against further strikes in a dispute over a colleague's dismissal. 48 voted from 138 eligible, 25 against and 23 for strikes. Ballot failed to meet legal thresholds as did one for action short of strikes.

There's solidarity, then there's paying the bills...


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on January 04, 2023, 12:21:43

Not only the number of Signallers who operated the mechanical boxes there were a lot of S&T staff to maintain the equipment, PWay there are no longer "lengthmen" and local gangs.  Shunters, fright guards, second men, station porters, parcel office staff, traction & rolling stock maintainers, Railway Works

A grahame'ism slipping in!
Lovely explanation, thank you ET


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 04, 2023, 18:00:56
From RAIL magazine's Philp Haigh on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1610584623209119749
Quote
NR signallers in RMT union at Thames Valley signalling centre have voted against further strikes in a dispute over a colleague's dismissal. 48 voted from 138 eligible, 25 against and 23 for strikes. Ballot failed to meet legal thresholds as did one for action short of strikes.

There's solidarity, then there's paying the bills...

As I understand it, signallers aren't particularly keen on the overall strike action but they are linked in the RMT with maintenance workers who massively outnumber them when it comes to a vote so are stuck with it.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on January 04, 2023, 19:26:33
One of the 'modernisation' pre-conditions that the RMT objects to is the wholesale closure of ticket offices. A petition had been set up on the Government petitions website.... 'Require train operators maintain ticket offices at railway stations'. (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/622391)

This is the Government response....
Quote
Ticket office usage has reduced substantially in the last decade. The Plan for Rail White Paper outlines the modernisation needed to improve the passenger experience and to ensure the railways are financially sustainable. Together with industry we want to move staff out from ticket offices and into the wider station where they can provide more face-to-face help and assistance to passengers.

The Government recognises the multiple functions that the ticket offices around the country provide, including enabling passengers to purchase tickets, providing help and advice, and carrying out seat and cycle reservations. Where a train company does suggest a ticket office closure, we expect train operators to consider how these functions will continue to be provided as part of the proposal they put forward under the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA) process. Section 6-18 of the TSA sets out the process that train companies must follow to make such proposals and is publicly available on the Rail Delivery Group’s website (https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/our-services/rdg-accreditation/ticketing-settlement.html).

Alternative retail options are now available in most cases, including ticket vending machines, pay as you go ticketing and online retailing and digital tickets. We recognise that not everyone has access to these retail facilities or is able to use them, and we expect train operators to take this into account when making a proposal.

With staff in more mobile roles they can provide additional support to those who cannot or do not want to use alternative retailing options. They will be able to advise on journeys and timetables as well as help customers to buy tickets or access other services. The passenger assistance scheme will continue to be in place to help passengers with additional needs use the rail network with confidence and in safety.
To propose any changes to the opening hours or the closure of ticket offices, train operators must follow the process set out in section 6-18 of the TSA. This will involve a public engagement, with train operators required to put notices at stations advising passengers of proposals and what any changes could mean for them. Train operators are also required to contact other operators and the passenger bodies directly under 6-18 of the TSA. If passengers have objections, these can be raised via the passenger bodies (Transport Focus and London TravelWatch) for consideration within 21 days of the notice being posted. The passenger bodies will then determine based on all the evidence if they approve or object to the proposed change. Should the Passenger Bodies object to the proposal it could be referred to the Secretary of State for Transport for a decision. A decision will be made based on the requirements in 6-18 (1) of the TSA and the relevant guidance.

As part of this process, train operators are specifically required to take into account the adequacy of the proposed alternatives in relation to the needs of passengers who are disabled and include this in their notice of the proposal sent to other operators and passenger groups. We would also expect operators to consider other equality related needs and make this clear in their public engagement.

Department for Transport


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on January 05, 2023, 06:37:15
From RAIL magazine's Philp Haigh on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1610584623209119749
Quote
NR signallers in RMT union at Thames Valley signalling centre have voted against further strikes in a dispute over a colleague's dismissal. 48 voted from 138 eligible, 25 against and 23 for strikes. Ballot failed to meet legal thresholds as did one for action short of strikes.

There's solidarity, then there's paying the bills...

As I understand it, signallers aren't particularly keen on the overall strike action but they are linked in the RMT with maintenance workers who massively outnumber them when it comes to a vote so are stuck with it.

I do not know the details of why the Signallers at Didcot voted for industrial action regarding the dismissal of a colleague, this was / is a local dispute ie between the Signallers and their local Network Rail management, it is unrelated to the National dispute the RMT has with Network Rail Infrastructure Ltd..


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 07, 2023, 10:05:04
Finally, an offer (still technically ‘unofficial’ I believe), has been made to the driving grade.

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/the-rail-industry-makes-offer-to-aslef-to-drive-up-performance-for-passengers#

As a first offer I doubt it will be offered to the membership or accepted but it is something at least.  And it probably won’t take too much more as quite cleverly it doesn’t add Sunday’s into the working week and with GWR at least that means the Sunday situation only really affects HSS drivers who are outnumbered by GWR grade ones.  Not sure what the picture is nationally though?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on January 07, 2023, 10:37:55
Lovely article by Roger French today -
https://busandtrainuser.com/2023/01/07/whos-running-the-railway/
Listening to Mark Harper, Secretary of State for Transport and Mick Lynch, General Secretary of the RMT doing the media rounds during this week’s strikes brought home the dysfunctional state of Britain’s railways. There seems no hope of an early resolution to the current industrial disputes while a state of paralysis continues with no one admitting to being in charge of the railway and taking responsibility.
(Continues).........

{Edit to correct Rogers surname - apologies}
[/size][/size]


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 07, 2023, 10:46:34
Finally, an offer (still technically ‘unofficial’ I believe), has been made to the driving grade.

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/the-rail-industry-makes-offer-to-aslef-to-drive-up-performance-for-passengers#

As a first offer I doubt it will be offered to the membership or accepted but it is something at least.  And it probably won’t take too much more as quite cleverly it doesn’t add Sunday’s into the working week and with GWR at least that means the Sunday situation only really affects HSS drivers who are outnumbered by GWR grade ones.  Not sure what the picture is nationally though?

In other words then, Sunday will remain an unreliable lottery for customers on GWR?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 07, 2023, 11:01:20
Why do you think that, TG?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on January 07, 2023, 12:45:27
Finally, an offer (still technically ‘unofficial’ I believe), has been made to the driving grade.

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/the-rail-industry-makes-offer-to-aslef-to-drive-up-performance-for-passengers#

As a first offer I doubt it will be offered to the membership or accepted but it is something at least.  And it probably won’t take too much more as quite cleverly it doesn’t add Sunday’s into the working week and with GWR at least that means the Sunday situation only really affects HSS drivers who are outnumbered by GWR grade ones.  Not sure what the picture is nationally though?

In other words then, Sunday will remain an unreliable lottery for customers on GWR?

The Railways have been working a 6 day rostered week of decades, just so happens we are rostered for duty 5 out of the 6 which often means  a rest day mid week.   

Going to rostered 5 out of 7 will still mean overtime working but now it would be for 2 rest days midweek instead of it being a Sunday the risk of midweek services being cancelled due to lack of staff would be hight

Rr are you advocating that Rail workers should work a mandated 7 day working week when the norm in all other sectors private or public is a 5 day working week Monday to Friday

I cannot see what the obsession is with adding Sunday in as a "normal working week day" Overtime will always have to be paid at enhanced rates of pay to make working it attractive, after all overtime is voluntary


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Mark A on January 07, 2023, 14:54:04
A twitter thread from a driver that's gone down well so far, here:

https://twitter.com/toptraindriver/status/1611452290598043655 (https://twitter.com/toptraindriver/status/1611452290598043655)

Mark


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 08, 2023, 04:51:42
Resumption of nearer to normal services - 8th Jan 2023

Quote
Alterations to services on all routes

Due to industrial action:
Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network will be revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 08/01/23.

Customer Advice
-
Following industrial action which took place between 3-7 January, trains will continue to be disrupted on Sunday 8 January.
-
There will be a reduced level of service throughout the day; a later start to services in the morning and some late-night services may be cancelled.
-
Trains that are operating will be extremely busy. Please check before you travel, GWR.com/check
-
The Night Riviera sleeper service will resume.
-
Due to planned engineering work, no trains will run between Didcot Parkway and Bristol Parkway or Bath Spa.
-
Trains between London and Bristol or South Wales will use a different route not stopping at Didcot Parkway, Swindon or Chippenham. Buses will replace trains for stations between Reading and Bath Spa, and between Didcot Parkway and Bristol Parkway.
-
Shuttle trains will run between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa.
-
To help customers who have been affected by the recent industrial action, tickets dated for travel on 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 January can be used up to and including Tuesday 10 January.
-
For the latest information and FAQs, visit our dedicated strike webpage; GWR.com/strike

A shuttle service is also scheduled to run between Westbury and Chippenham, with rail replacement buses on to Swindon, but that hasn't made the JourneyCheck headlines.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 08, 2023, 08:59:19
Finally, an offer (still technically ‘unofficial’ I believe), has been made to the driving grade.

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/the-rail-industry-makes-offer-to-aslef-to-drive-up-performance-for-passengers#

As a first offer I doubt it will be offered to the membership or accepted but it is something at least.  And it probably won’t take too much more as quite cleverly it doesn’t add Sunday’s into the working week and with GWR at least that means the Sunday situation only really affects HSS drivers who are outnumbered by GWR grade ones.  Not sure what the picture is nationally though?

In other words then, Sunday will remain an unreliable lottery for customers on GWR?

The Railways have been working a 6 day rostered week of decades, just so happens we are rostered for duty 5 out of the 6 which often means  a rest day mid week.   

Going to rostered 5 out of 7 will still mean overtime working but now it would be for 2 rest days midweek instead of it being a Sunday the risk of midweek services being cancelled due to lack of staff would be hight

Rr are you advocating that Rail workers should work a mandated 7 day working week when the norm in all other sectors private or public is a 5 day working week Monday to Friday

I cannot see what the obsession is with adding Sunday in as a "normal working week day" Overtime will always have to be paid at enhanced rates of pay to make working it attractive, after all overtime is voluntary

When you say "the norm in all other sectors private or public is a 5 day working week Monday to Friday", who do you think is serving you at the weekends and in the evenings in supermarkets, pubs, cinemas, hotels, hospitals etc?

Terms of employment should reflect the fact that the railways are a 7 day operation AND this should be reflected in the number of people employed, not totally relying on overtime which have we have seen in recent years has resulted in regular carnage and mass cancellations on GWR on Sundays.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Bob_Blakey on January 08, 2023, 09:46:58
I am obviously missing, or misunderstanding, something here; surely moving to a 5 in 7 or 6 in 7 working week, committing people to work Saturdays and/or Sundays on a rota basis, with sufficient staff employed to cover the service schedule across the whole week and with the same rate of pay for each day of the week has to be more reliable and, possibly more importantly, cheaper than sticking with either a 5 or 6 day contractual working week and thus forking out large amounts of money in, presumably very generous, overtime payments to those staff willing or ?forced to work Saturdays and/or Sundays.

I was employed on such a basis, in the private sector, 35 years ago. Why does UK public sector workforce management seemingly have to be so disorganised?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on January 08, 2023, 20:33:19
I am obviously missing, or misunderstanding, something here; surely moving to a 5 in 7 or 6 in 7 working week, committing people to work Saturdays and/or Sundays on a rota basis, with sufficient staff employed to cover the service schedule across the whole week and with the same rate of pay for each day of the week has to be more reliable and, possibly more importantly, cheaper than sticking with either a 5 or 6 day contractual working week and thus forking out large amounts of money in, presumably very generous, overtime payments to those staff willing or ?forced to work Saturdays and/or Sundays.

I was employed on such a basis, in the private sector, 35 years ago. Why does UK public sector workforce management seemingly have to be so disorganised?

Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week. This would mean employing considerably more staff and with that the associated contributions the employer would be required to make.
It is far cheaper to rely on overtime, which I hasten to add, isn’t as generous as you think. 1 and 1/4 I believe.

Having said all that, GWR on the driver side of things I understand are well over staffed at some locations. It may be possible that GWR could have the numbers to bring Sundays inside the working week with the alternative being redundancies


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 08, 2023, 22:04:06
Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week.

Indeed, and the unions aren’t against it (as long as it’s properly negotiated) as it means a lot more members for them.

Not sure why we’re discussing Sundays in the working week, when the offer made to ASLEF makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on January 09, 2023, 07:31:24
Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week.

Indeed, and the unions aren’t against it (as long as it’s properly negotiated) as it means a lot more members for them.

Not sure why we’re discussing Sundays in the working week, when the offer made to ASLEF makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now.

But it is an issue for many NR staff


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Bob_Blakey on January 09, 2023, 09:29:11
..... Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week. This would mean employing considerably more staff and with that the associated contributions the employer would be required to make. .....

Wouldn't it be lovely if the TOCs and, more especially, our government acted as if they gave a toss about what the travelling public needed? It has evidently not occurred to these imbeciles people that if they employ enough staff to deliver as close to a 100% reliable service as is possible passenger numbers will increase significantly (cf. pre-pandemic rail journeys which peaked at 1.8bn annually against the current c. 1.35bn) and the exercise very likely attains, or betters, cost neutrality with consequent higher revenues and profits.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TrainSpy on January 09, 2023, 09:56:26
Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week.

Indeed, and the unions aren’t against it (as long as it’s properly negotiated) as it means a lot more members for them.

Not sure why we’re discussing Sundays in the working week, when the offer made to ASLEF makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now.

But that wording seems to be the same ast the RMT offer doesn't it? Both press releases seemed to talk about keeping as overtime, but putting measures in place to make sure people couldn't pull out beforehand and screw the service up I think.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 09, 2023, 10:03:28
Yes, that pretty much sums it up.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on January 09, 2023, 10:19:47
Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week.

When the offer made to ASLEF makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now.

Which is a problem for some of us who aren’t committed to working Sundays.

No only is it enforced overtime but with leisure travel now the main focus is an agreement in place for the maximum number of Sundays you could be rostered?  If there’s an uplift in services on a Sunday surely there’s a risk that you could end up being rostered considerably more Sundays than we are at present.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 09, 2023, 10:37:27
Which is a problem for some of us who aren’t committed to working Sundays.

No only is it enforced overtime but with leisure travel now the main focus is an agreement in place for the maximum number of Sundays you could be rostered?  If there’s an uplift in services on a Sunday surely there’s a risk that you could end up being rostered considerably more Sundays than we are at present.

It's possible and any agreement would need to have maximums agreed.  I don't expect there to be a huge uplift in services on a Sunday - several routes already run at Saturday frequency levels (with a later start up) -  but just an expectation that those that are scheduled to run, will run.  The driver links that have committed Sunday's already have not seen any extra Sunday's added over the many years that has been the case, staying at one in three - and it's very noticeable that Sunday cancellations on services crewed by those depots/links are pretty rare.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TrainSpy on January 09, 2023, 12:52:50
Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week.

When the offer made to ASLEF makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now.

Which is a problem for some of us who aren’t committed to working Sundays.

No only is it enforced overtime but with leisure travel now the main focus is an agreement in place for the maximum number of Sundays you could be rostered?  If there’s an uplift in services on a Sunday surely there’s a risk that you could end up being rostered considerably more Sundays than we are at present.

Certainly for the RMT side of things, the internal stuff I've seen makes clear that there is an opt-out for those who don't work Sundays. Assume the precise frequency would be negotiated locally?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 09, 2023, 16:24:53
From an ASLEF communication from the General Secretary to members:

Quote

Today, with Simon Weller, assistant general secretary, and Andy Hudd, EC vice-president, I met the Rail Minister, Huw Merriman, for an hour at Great Minster House. He told us he wanted to ‘facilitate’ a resolution to the pay dispute we have with 15 TOCs. This meeting had been in everyone’s diaries for some time and pre-dated the RDG’s offer.
 
We told him that the ‘offer’ leaked to the press earlier last week was done in a way that was utterly reprehensible. After six and a half months waiting for a response to our reasonable request for an increase in pay for our members who have not had one since 2019, the RDG sent out an offer at the end of play on Friday and released elements to the press and media before we had even seen it.
 
They did not have the professional or personal courtesy to let us know it was coming, and ensured that we would not have time to properly consider it and respond.
 
We told the minister this morning – and Steve Montgomery and Andy Meadows, representing the RDG, who were also in the room – that if the government thinks it can negotiate with us via the pages of The Sun or the Daily Mail and make an offer that is really a sleight of hand then they are very much mistaken.
 
That offer will now be dealt with by the EC at its scheduled session on Monday 16 January.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 10, 2023, 07:11:35
From an ASLEF communication from the General Secretary to members:

Quote

Today, with Simon Weller, assistant general secretary, and Andy Hudd, EC vice-president, I met the Rail Minister, Huw Merriman, for an hour at Great Minster House. He told us he wanted to ‘facilitate’ a resolution to the pay dispute we have with 15 TOCs. This meeting had been in everyone’s diaries for some time and pre-dated the RDG’s offer.
 
We told him that the ‘offer’ leaked to the press earlier last week was done in a way that was utterly reprehensible. After six and a half months waiting for a response to our reasonable request for an increase in pay for our members who have not had one since 2019, the RDG sent out an offer at the end of play on Friday and released elements to the press and media before we had even seen it.
 
They did not have the professional or personal courtesy to let us know it was coming, and ensured that we would not have time to properly consider it and respond.
 
We told the minister this morning – and Steve Montgomery and Andy Meadows, representing the RDG, who were also in the room – that if the government thinks it can negotiate with us via the pages of The Sun or the Daily Mail and make an offer that is really a sleight of hand then they are very much mistaken.
 
That offer will now be dealt with by the EC at its scheduled session on Monday 16 January.

Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views.........


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 10, 2023, 11:37:40
Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views.........

If we've resorted to slinging mud, it looks like Minister Huw Merriman isn't averse to a bit of 'interesting company' as well:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5885029/Married-Tory-MP-married-three-children-love-child-aide.html


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 10, 2023, 13:01:52
Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views.........

If we've resorted to slinging mud, it looks like Minister Huw Merriman isn't averse to a bit of 'interesting company' as well:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5885029/Married-Tory-MP-married-three-children-love-child-aide.html

I have sadly come to the conclusion that in order to be a major successful public figure, most aspirers need to do things rather beyond what others would see as normal or acceptable limits and then have the balls (or gender neutral equivalent), spunk, street-wise nouse to carry them off.     Which means that we find ourselves lead by a lot of people we don't feel are very nice, however effective they may be.   There are some who seem to fit the nice mould - I am pretty sure a few of those may simply be clever enough to ride (or hide) the issues, but I'm equally sure that some are genuine.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:15:10
Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views.........

If we've resorted to slinging mud, it looks like Minister Huw Merriman isn't averse to a bit of 'interesting company' as well:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5885029/Married-Tory-MP-married-three-children-love-child-aide.html

Mudslinging implicitly suggests unfairness and/or unjustness.

I don't think it's either unfair or unjust to challenge the appropriateness of a senior member of a British Trade Union associating himself and sharing that platform with a who's who of racists, anti-semites, atrocity revisionists, Putin apologists and some who are in the employment of Russian and Iranian Governments or propaganda outlets.

In fact I note that the venue has subsequently thought better of it and cancelled the event - good on them.

I'm obviously happy to hear any counter argument to this, and in the words of one of the other eminent panel members, I salute the strength, courage and indefatigability of anyone who has one.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 11, 2023, 07:03:14
I think it’s very interesting that nobody decided to actually comment on the content of the statement I quoted given its significance.

Instead, all it prompted was a trip to Google to search for Andy Hudd.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 11, 2023, 08:08:13
I think it’s very interesting that nobody decided to actually comment on the content of the statement I quoted given its significance.

Instead, all it prompted was a trip to Google to search for Andy Hudd.

Good choice of words.   Many posts here tend to silently inform members and the like / feedback tends to come on the  side shoots.  I do know (from various checks) that content is often read and taken in, even if it gets no responses (even as small as a like), and that's especially the case where the topic has significant controversy.

With the current industrial issues, I personally watch with enormous interest but virtually no comment. It is an emotional fight, perhaps of political principle, between various parties none of whom have passengers at top of their agenda (we are a necessary corollary to all of them, no more) and we have no real say in sorting out the problem, even assuming we consider it a problem - some though not many members, I suspect, see it as an opportunity.

It is indeed sad where we drop towards name-calling and the moderator / admin team will pick up, when we notice, if things go too far.  At the same time, it is valid to ask Google "who is he" about the players involved as it helps us understand where they are coming from and perhaps motivations.

So - II thank you for that post; I suspect it is read but not acknowledged / followed up as you might have expected.  It is certainly valued in moving information forward.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TrainSpy on January 11, 2023, 11:12:33
I think this is quite interesting in the context of the evidence given by unions and industry to the Transport Select Committee. Rather than me comment on it, it may be worth a scan through for those interested.

www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/6cf2329d-75b9-49e8-a7e9-666ead62b39c

From an ASLEF communication from the General Secretary to members:

Quote

Today, with Simon Weller, assistant general secretary, and Andy Hudd, EC vice-president, I met the Rail Minister, Huw Merriman, for an hour at Great Minster House. He told us he wanted to ‘facilitate’ a resolution to the pay dispute we have with 15 TOCs. This meeting had been in everyone’s diaries for some time and pre-dated the RDG’s offer.
 
We told him that the ‘offer’ leaked to the press earlier last week was done in a way that was utterly reprehensible. After six and a half months waiting for a response to our reasonable request for an increase in pay for our members who have not had one since 2019, the RDG sent out an offer at the end of play on Friday and released elements to the press and media before we had even seen it.
 
They did not have the professional or personal courtesy to let us know it was coming, and ensured that we would not have time to properly consider it and respond.
 
We told the minister this morning – and Steve Montgomery and Andy Meadows, representing the RDG, who were also in the room – that if the government thinks it can negotiate with us via the pages of The Sun or the Daily Mail and make an offer that is really a sleight of hand then they are very much mistaken.
 
That offer will now be dealt with by the EC at its scheduled session on Monday 16 January.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Bob_Blakey on January 11, 2023, 14:22:39
.....in the context of the evidence given by unions and industry to the Transport Select Committee. .....

Having watched this earlier today I am more confident that an agreement could be reached fairly quickly between the RMT/TSSA and NR/RDG but that won't provide a reliable train service if the attitude of ASLEF's Mick Whelan was anything to go by - signallers on duty and stations open but most drivers still on strike would be as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Hopefully he just presented as a stroppy git for the benefit of the cameras!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TrainSpy on January 11, 2023, 18:33:39
I agree - its pretty clear the unions are in different places! And its also pretty clear that the unsolicited offer on Friday wasn't really something Mick W wanted to deal with right now. Will have to see how it plays out


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on January 12, 2023, 07:47:18
I agree - its pretty clear the unions are in different places! And its also pretty clear that the unsolicited offer on Friday wasn't really something Mick W wanted to deal with right now. Will have to see how it plays out

In what sense was it unsolicited.  His complaint was that it was delivered without warning just before the meeting so they had no time to consider it.  That seems perfectly reasonable to me.  Also it was leaked to the press at the same time. Which is I agree not very professional. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TrainSpy on January 12, 2023, 11:50:42
I agree - its pretty clear the unions are in different places! And its also pretty clear that the unsolicited offer on Friday wasn't really something Mick W wanted to deal with right now. Will have to see how it plays out

In what sense was it unsolicited.  His complaint was that it was delivered without warning just before the meeting so they had no time to consider it.  That seems perfectly reasonable to me.  Also it was leaked to the press at the same time. Which is I agree not very professional. 

Just in the sense that it wasn't requested by ASLEF. And awkward in the sense that he could no longer say that ASLEF had not received an offer - which means you then have to engage in the detail of what a deal might look like (even if what's in the offer is unacceptable)

"Without warning" is interesting given the evidence Steve Montgomery gave to MPs yesterday about multiple discussions and attempts to arrange a meeting beforehand (which ASLEF hasn't denied).

If the document doing the rounds is actually the offer sent to ASLEF, the first paragraphs might give some insight into why they could have decided to do it as they did, beyond just a rather cheap PR move.

"Due to the limited availability of Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers & Fireman (ASLEF) representatives over the last four months of 2022 we have not been able to make much progress in our discussions as we had envisaged on the key areas of workforce reforms. This has prevented us from being able to table a pay offer for 2022.

"In recognition of this situation, this Pay and Workforce Reform Principles Proposal document seeks to set out the employers’ position taking cognisance of the preliminary discussions at industry-wide level, in conjunction with a two-year pay offer. The intention is this will facilitate accelerating our discussions between our respective representatives of the passenger train operators (TOCs) listed in Appendix 1 and ASLEF and a resolution to the current disputes that exist between TOCs and ASLEF. "




Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 16, 2023, 12:05:44
From the "On this day" at the top of our forum pages

Quote
On this day - 16th Jan (1979) - Winter of discontent - 24 hour rail strike

https://libcom.org/article/1978-1979-winter-discontent
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent

Similarities?   Differences?   Anything to learn from what happened after that winter?



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 17, 2023, 10:17:37
From The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64303591)

Quote
Train drivers to go on strike in February

Train drivers are to strike on 1 and 3 February after a pay offer was rejected by the union Aslef.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 17, 2023, 11:33:29
From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/01/rail-strikes-aslef-rejects-new-proposals-and-announces-new-strike-dates.html)

Quote
Train drivers union, ASLEF, has announced that it has rejected a new proposal from train operators and has announced new strike dates in February.

Strikes will now take place on the 1st and 3rd February 2023.

The strikes will affect Avanti West Coast; Chiltern Railways; CrossCountry; East Midlands Railway; Great Western Railway; Greater Anglia; GTR Great Northern Thameslink; London North Eastern Railway; Northern Trains; Southeastern; Southern/Gatwick Express; South Western Railway (depot drivers only); SWR Island Line; TransPennine Express; and West Midlands Trains.

The strikes are part of the ongoing dispute over pay and conditions, with 6 strike days already held.

Mick Whelan, general secretary of ASLEF, said: ‘The proposal is not and could not ever be acceptable but we are willing to engage in further discussions within the process that we previously agreed.’

‘It’s now clear to our members, and to the public, that this was never about reform or modernisation but an attempt to get hundreds of millions of pounds of productivity for a 20% pay cut while taking away any hope of the union having any say in the future. Irreparable harm has been done to the integrity of the negotiating process and the future ability to negotiate an appropriate way forward, but we make ourselves available anyway.

‘Not only is the offer a real-terms pay cut, with inflation running north of 10%, but it came with so many conditions attached that it was clearly unacceptable. They want to rip up our terms and conditions in return for a real-terms pay cut! It was clearly a rushed offer, made just before our meeting with the minister, and not one, it seems to me, that was designed to be accepted. Our members at these companies have not had an increase since 2019, despite soaring inflation, and it is time the companies – encouraged, perhaps, by the government – sat  down with us and got serious.

‘That is the way – and the only way – to end this dispute.’

It'll be interesting to see how TOCs treat the special offer Advance tickets sold for these days (refund / move date free) and for the day after when services start up much later & bookings made on earlier trains.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 17, 2023, 17:09:59
Also from RailAdvent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/01/rmt-union-announces-february-strike-dates.html)

Quote
The RMT Union has announced that 14 train operators will be affected by strike action during February.

Strike action will take place on the 1st and 3rd February 2023, which are the same dates as those announced by ASLEF earlier today.

The strike on the 1st February coincides with a TUC day of action where several other unions are also striking.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 17, 2023, 17:58:57
I', sure their members are scratching their heads - with very few trains running, disruption is already assured, so aren't thery giving up 2 days pay for extremely little extra effect? What a waste of two days pay - surely far more disruptive to strike on different days to create further disruption worth giving up pay for? ??? ???


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 18, 2023, 05:48:55
I', sure their members are scratching their heads - with very few trains running, disruption is already assured, so aren't thery giving up 2 days pay for extremely little extra effect? What a waste of two days pay - surely far more disruptive to strike on different days to create further disruption worth giving up pay for? ??? ???

To some extent I am scratching my head too.   

I am noting that Wednesday 1st February is being styled as a national day of action with many other groups taking action and from a solidarity point of view, there is logic in the RMT asking their members to withdraw their labour that day.  Having said which, with so many other groups not travelling to work either, does that lessen the effect of the strike that day by transport workers and are we looking at something that has some thin parallels to the extreme public holidays of 25th and 26th December?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on January 18, 2023, 08:33:22
If you read the RMT website (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-train-driver-members-to-take-strike-action-feb-1-and-3/), it's RMT train drivers that are striking at the same time as ASLEF.  Currently a strike for 'other' grades has not been called.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 18, 2023, 09:43:47
Thanks, that makes more sense! Now why didn’t even the rail presd pick that up I wonder


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 18, 2023, 16:11:29
From GWR ...

Quote
Dear Graham
 
You may have seen in the media, that ASLEF (train drivers) will be taking strike action on Wednesday 1st February and Friday 3rd February.  RMT train drivers will also strike on the same days.
 
As this is train drivers, it is very likely that we will have no service whatsoever on the vast majority of our network on both dates.  We are hoping that we might be able to operate a limited service from Reading to Basingstoke, Reading to Oxford and London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads. This is not yet confirmed. We will let you know as soon as we have details.
 
Our dedicated strike page at www.gwr.com/strike will be kept updated including information on refunds and when journey planners will be updated. We will also be issuing traditional media, social media, on board station announcements and posters to ensure customers are aware.
 
If you are able to share our updates from our Twitter account at www.twitter.com/gwrhelp or update your own networks in whatever way possible that would be greatly appreciated.
 
We will be in touch again once we have the train plan confirmed, and again thank you for all your help getting the information about the new dates out.
 
Best wishes
 
Jxxx


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on January 18, 2023, 17:19:24
Not really a surprise....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64317725



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 18, 2023, 17:38:14
Quote
Mick Whelan appeared on the Today programme and was left fumbling when pressed on the reality of train driver pay. Nick Robinson pointed out that drivers had gained a 17% pay rise, in real terms, over the past decade. The national average is 1%.

That would be £45,000 to £60,000 on average now. And the 4% + 4% offer currently on the table equates to another £5,000 up to £65,000


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on January 19, 2023, 13:47:43
Does anyone know the exact start and end times of the strikes on 1st & 3rd February? Same for both ASLEF and RMT, or staggered?

I'm trying to advise relatives on the likelihood of them being able to travel on the morning of Saturday 4th.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 19, 2023, 13:56:02
Midnight to midnight for ASLEF.  I would expect RMT to be the same as it affects only a small number.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 19, 2023, 15:48:54
From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/01/rail-strikes-rail-delivery-group-send-best-and-final-offer-to-rmt-union.html)

Quote
The Rail Delivery Group has confirmed it has sent its ‘best and final offer’ to the RMT union, which should see a five and four percent increase for staff covering the 2022 and 2023 pay awards.

The offer has been made through an outline framework agreement and would allow the rail industry to adapt to changes in the way passengers now use the railway, whilst rewarding its staff.

The outline agreement sets out a minimum pay increase of nine percent over two years. Staff who are paid below a certain amount will receive a guaranteed £1750 in year one.

Pay would be backdated to the relevant 2022 pay awards to allow staff to benefit from a lump sum in the first available pay run.

The RDG also says that it has improved on its previous offer, with no compulsory redundancies until 31st December 2024 (previously this was 1st April 2024)

The proposals also include:

The creation of a new multi-skilled station role, with staff trained to take on a number of responsibilities
Creating ‘station groups’ which means staff are able to move between stations to help passengers
Use of part-time contracts and flexible working patterns to encourage a more diverse workforce
The formalisation of current voluntary working on Sundays, helping to reduce delays and disruption for passengers.
A voluntary redundancy scheme will be made available for those who want to leave the industry.

The Rail Delivery Group says that the offer does not include any proposals to change the mode of operation of trains, but acknowledges that individual operators can make separate proposals to update and revise on-board roles, for example using new on-board technology for station/driver dispatch processes.

Industrial action has cost the rail industry £480m in lost revenue since June, and the RDG says that staff have lost £2000 in pay whilst on strike.

Steve Montgomery, chair of the Rail Delivery Group, said: “This is a fair offer that gives RMT members a significant uplift over the next two years – weighted particularly for those on lower incomes who we know are most feeling the squeeze – while allowing the railway to innovate and adapt to new travel patterns. It also means we can offer our people more varied, rewarding careers.

“With taxpayers still funding up to an extra £175 million a month to make up the shortfall in revenue post-covid, we urge the RMT to put this offer to its members so we can bring an end to this damaging dispute for our people, our passengers and the long-term future of Britain’s railways.”

The RMT Union has responded to the proposal, with RMT general secretary Mick Lynch saying: “The National Executive Committee will be considering this matter and has made no decision on the proposals nor any of the elements within them.

“We will give an update on our next steps in due course.”

Will that get put to the members, I wonder?



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 19, 2023, 15:54:14
I believe the DOO extension has been dropped, or significantly watered down.  I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets put to the vote, perhaps with a recommendation to reject like the other RMT dispute.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on January 19, 2023, 16:31:08
RMT Press Release

Quote
RMT press release 19.01.23.

RMT receives fresh offer from RDG
 
Rail union, RMT today received a new offer from the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) following negotiations in the national rail dispute.

The union's NEC will now consider the detail within the offer and what next steps to take.

The proposals include detailed documentation covering a range of issues that affect all of our grade groups at these 14 companies and will require serious and careful consideration.

The proposals on pay and job security are directly conditional on cost savings and alterations to contractual terms, entitlements, and working practices.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "The National Executive Committee will be considering this matter and has made no decision on the proposals nor any of the elements within them.

"We will give an update on our next steps in due course."

END

The 'new offer' is essentially the original offer with DOO dropped [although the individual TOCs reserve the right to reinstate it] and an additional 1% on this year's pay offer.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on January 20, 2023, 15:53:03
The full proposals by the RDG have been published by the RMT on their website (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/publications/).

See the 4 pdfs: RDG General Grades proposals, RDG General Grades, Drivers pay and workforce reform proposal and Drivers letter from RDG.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on January 20, 2023, 17:22:35
If RMT members had any sense they will reject that offer. If it was a straight forward pay rise without the attached conditions it’ll be more than acceptable.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 20, 2023, 17:43:31
If RMT members had any sense they will reject that offer. If it was a straight forward pay rise without the attached conditions it’ll be more than acceptable.

The DfT have been making it crystal clear that there will be no straight forward pay rise offered by the TOC's.  Any pay rise has to be offset either by increased productivity and/or a reduction in costs.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 20, 2023, 17:48:47
If RMT members had any sense they will reject that offer. If it was a straight forward pay rise without the attached conditions it’ll be more than acceptable.

Difficulty is, now that for so many people commuting is an option rather than a necessity, and business travel has fallen through the floor, the RMT don't have much of their traditional leverage left.

The strikes are causing inconvenience, but for most a day or two here and there is manageable.

It could equally validly be said that sensible RMT members will accept that offer, as turning it down, although providing more opportunities to enhance Bruvver Lynch's newly found celebrity status, will merely result in them losing more money as the Government continue to tough this one out.

AIUI there will be no "straightforward" pay rise on offer.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on January 20, 2023, 18:02:52
If RMT members had any sense they will reject that offer. If it was a straight forward pay rise without the attached conditions it’ll be more than acceptable.

Difficulty is, now that for so many people commuting is an option rather than a necessity, and business travel has fallen through the floor, the RMT don't have much of their traditional leverage left.

The strikes are causing inconvenience, but for most a day or two here and there is manageable.

It could equally validly be said that sensible RMT members will accept that offer, as turning it down, although providing more opportunities to enhance Bruvver Lynch's newly found celebrity status, will merely result in them losing more money as the Government continue to tough this one out.

AIUI there will be no "straightforward" pay rise on offer.



No “straightforward” pay rise will ever be on offer with this government. I highly doubt when MPs get their payrise there is a host of conditions attached to it!!  The reforms they are proposing will not make the smallest of dents in the running cost of the railway. To save any significant sum of money you need to look at the structure of the railway.

Business and commuting may have fallen off dramatically, but leisure travel is now above pre-Covid levels. That can be as equally as damaging.  Staff are quite prepared to see this through, and quite prepared to step up action

I never thought I’d say this but the only thing that can save this country, not just the railway, is a General Election.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 21, 2023, 14:00:13
Simon Calder's take on the new offer (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/travel/bye-to-the-buffet-and-ancient-british-rail-agreements-what-a-rail-deal-could-mean-for-passengers-and-staff/ar-AA16znm3?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=2e3867132e054668ae5ddf1b24be7c6f)

Quote
Bye to the buffet and ancient British Rail agreements? What a rail deal could mean for passengers and staff

The RMT union is still considering the “best and final offer” from the train operators aimed at ending at least one of the long and most bitter national rail disputes that have cost nearly half-a-billion pounds in lost ticket revenue.

But any agreement is contingent on a long list of reforms aimed at cutting the cost of the railway – which could include scrapping the catering on some trains and an end to working conditions agreed more than half a century ago when British Rail was still a thing.

These are the strings attached to the deal.

Remind me of the background?

It’s seven months today since the first national rail strikes since the 1980s began. The tangle of disputes that have led to the stoppages centre on pay, job security and working arrangements.

Finally this week the train operators – represented by industry body the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) – made an offer to the RMT union that wasn’t immediately rejected. Pay (a headline rise of 9.2 per cent over two years, with staff on £30,000 or less seeing wages rise by at least 10 per cent) and job security (no compulsory redundancies until 2025 at the earliest) appear settled.

The main hurdle now: the changes in working arrangements, which the employers say are essential to repair the disastrous railway finances. The union’s executive committee is poring over the detail – but if the union accepts the strings attached to the deal, it could signal all kinds of changes for passengers and staff.

Let’s start in the buffet…

…or the trolley that trundles up and down some of the nation’s trains.

The condition is: “All catering services to be reviewed on the basis of affordability and value for the companies.”

At the moment there is no consistency except that most intercity trains have a buffet.

A random selection of other trains have a trolley. You might be offered a cup of tea and a biscuit on a one-hour trip in some parts of the country, while on a journey of nearly three hours between Brighton and Cambridge you’ll have to bring your own.

I predict that catering on shorter commuter services will disappear: demand for food/drink was very low anyway just by the nature of the short journeys, and with commuting collapsing and so many opportunities to buy at stations, sales have dried up.

In future, catering will be offered if there is sufficient demand for a cup of tea and bacon roll for £6 (as on Avanti West Coast) rather than “that’s what we’ve always done”.

Are driver-only operation and ticket office closures still likely?

No. Both thorny issues are parked in the railway sidings for now.

Expanding “driver only operation” – which is the norm for the majority of passengers on Britain’s trains – is no longer a red line for the train operators and the government ministers who are signing off any deal.

While the employers’ side still envisage that ticket offices will close, with staff freed up to help passengers, the deal is not contingent on the union endorsing closures.

The idea will be put out to consultation. Having said that, the deal accepts a newly created “multi-skilled station grade” aimed at providing more all-round help at stations, and station staff would be expected to go and work at nearby stations if there was a need.

Is working Sundays going to become compulsory?
Not for existing staff. One of the most absurd aspects of a rail industry that is firmly anchored to the Victorian era and the random local agreements made since then is that a large slab of trains each week run entirely on overtime and goodwill.

As an example: on state-run Northern Trains, staff who are based on the east side of the Pennines are expected to work on any day of the week, while those on the west side don’t have to work weekends unless they want to earn some overtime.

No airline (apart from El Al, which respects the Jewish Sabbath) would contemplate such an arrangement. It means that Sunday services are more erratic than other days, even when you subtract engineering work.

Successive governments have failed lamentably to tackle the issue – and even this deal pulls its punches.

While Sundays will become a mandatory part of the shift pattern, existing employees will have an opt-out, and those for whom Sunday working is currently overtime-only will continue on that basis. So a fudge, but one that seems to be heading in the general direction of the 21st century.

What do the history books tell us?

A lot about why the railways look costly and inefficient to many. The Red, Blue and Green books that governed the conditions of service in the days when the National Union of Railwaymen was up against British Rail (with a different colour book for different grades of staff) are still largely in force.

They specify, for example, that a member of staff who becomes unable to continue in their role can remain “Stood Off” on full pay for two years if there is no “Suitable Alternative Work” available.

For example, a train manager might argue that an alternative role helping put together training programmes is not “suitable” and therefore they are entitled to stay at home on full pay unless another role is found.

The most extreme example I was told about (and which may be apocryphal, as I have found no record of it) was a condition in the Blue Book that was said to prescribe an additional payment to staff who happened to be working in a building that has a microwave in it.

The aim today is that new technology should not require extra payments to staff.

What are the chances of a rail settlement?

I am optimistic that the RMT and the train operators will settle. The two sides worked through last weekend and intensively during this week. They wanted to get a deal into a shape that the union negotiators felt they could put to their National Executive Committee and, if they agree, to the union members in a vote.

Removing the insistence on driver only operation and ticket office closures will be seen as a win by the RMT.

But this is just one of three big disputes. There’s a parallel one involving the RMT and Network Rail, which the employers’ side say they’re optimistic about.

The conflict between the train operators and Aslef, the train drivers’ union, seems far from a deal. An initial offer of 8 per cent over two years contingent on a wide range of reforms was met with derision by union leaders.

It triggered an immediate strike call – which happens on Wednesday 1 and Friday 3 February, bringing trains to a standstill in large parts of England but with few effects in Wales and Scotland.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: eightonedee on January 22, 2023, 08:02:07
Good to see someone giving an independent dispassionate and an objective analysis of the position, even if it ultimately says we will be left with a railway that is still inefficient with no overall benefit to passengers


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on January 25, 2023, 20:08:45
GWR’s strike information page has been updated with what they plan to operate during the two days of Industrial action taking place next Wednesday and Friday: www.gwr.com/strike

Quote
A very limited service will run only on the following routes between:

London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads
Bristol Temple Meads and Cardiff
Reading and Basingstoke
Reading and Oxford
Reading and Redhill
Swindon and Westbury
Exeter St Davids and Exmouth
Exeter St Davids and Paignton
Plymouth and Gunnislake
Penzance and St Ives

That’s more services then during previous action by ASLEF when services just operated between London-Bristol, Reading-Basingstoke and Reading-Oxford.

By changing at Bristol, passengers from London can reach Cardiff. With no action taking place on services operated Transport for Wales, the rest of Wales can be reached by a further change of trains at Cardiff.

South Western Railway are also not affected by this latest round of Industrial action.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 25, 2023, 20:13:51
I note that Swindon-Westbury is included too this time!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on January 25, 2023, 20:40:18
I note that Swindon-Westbury is included too this time!
It is yes. Something that will bring at least a partial smile to a certain resident of Melksham.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 26, 2023, 06:12:30
I note that Swindon-Westbury is included too this time!
It is yes. Something that will bring at least a partial smile to a certain resident of Melksham.

A step in the right direction - two round trips are timetabled, at 07:37 and 16:25 from Westbury, returning at 08:45 and 17:36 from Swindon.

I was initially reminded of the pre 2001, and 2006 to 2013 service of 2 trains each way per day, when real passenger numbers at Melksham were around 3,000 per annum. However, the "Two trains - running too early and too late" joke from those days does not really apply  - 08:45 and 17:36 from Swindon is a darned sight better than the 06:15 and 18:44 schedule from history.   Having just found the details, I am digesting.

Edit to add - on the GWR published timetable for a Wednesday, services should leave Westbury at 05:17, 07:05, 07:37, 09:46, 12:17, 14:16, 16:25, 18:34 and 20:06 and Swindon at 06:11, 08:45, 11:05, 13:15, 15:14, 17:36, 18:52 and 20:45. Underlines are those remaining in the online timetable as I write.
 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on January 26, 2023, 10:21:40
First trains in Cornwall on a strike day


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 29, 2023, 12:58:28
Not quite a poll of members though. Will those wishing to accept put their heads over the parapet in a Branch meeting?

From The Standard (https://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/mick-lynch-rmt-members-will-decide-whether-to-accept-offer-to-end-deadlock-b1056344.html)

Quote
Mick Lynch: RMT members will decide whether to accept offer to end deadlock

‘It’ll be up to our members to decide, and they’ll inform the leadership,’ said RMT general secretary Mick Lynch.

Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union leader Mick Lynch has said its members will decide whether to accept an offer to end the long-running dispute over pay, jobs and conditions.

The RMT general secretary claimed the Rail Delivery Group’s (RDG) offer is “very challenging”, adding: “I don’t know if our members would be prepared to accept it.”

But he stressed that members would be consulted over the coming days before the union’s leadership makes a decision, GB News reported on Saturday.

Members of the RMT and the Aslef train drivers union are set to strike again on Wednesday and Friday.

Wednesday’s walkouts will come on a day of widespread industrial action, with teachers in England and Wales and around 100,000 civil servants among those set to strike.

On Saturday, Mr Lynch told GB News: “We got an offer last week, and train operating companies are now continuing in discussions with Network Rail.

“The offer that they’ve made is very challenging for our people.

“There are branch meetings happening all over the country, regional meetings, and we’ll get reports back from those meetings from negotiating officers about what our members think…

“So that will happen over the next 10 days or so and then we’ll make a decision about what we want to do with the offer.”

Under the offer, staff who are paid below a certain threshold will receive a guaranteed £1,750 in year one, ensuring that lower paid employees benefit most.

Pay would be backdated to the relevant 2022 pay award date with employers, enabling staff to benefit from a lump sum payment in the first available pay run.

But Mr Lynch said pay is not the main issue for members.

He added: “A lot of people find it really challenging to see the closure of every booking office in Britain.

“The clampdown on their terms and conditions is not going down well in the country amongst our members.

“Pay is not the issue that’s burning with our members.

“It’s their conditions and the way that they work.”

The RDG has said many of its proposals “simply extend” best practice already in place in parts of the network, including the creation of a new multi-skilled station role, new “station groups” so that staff are more able to move between stations to help passengers, for example where there are staff shortages, and the use of part-time contracts and flexible working rosters.

Current voluntary working arrangements on Sundays would be formalised, which the RDG said would help to reduce delays and disruption for passengers during weekend travel at a time when Sunday travel demand has increased significantly post-Covid.

A voluntary redundancy scheme will be made available for those who wish to leave the industry.

The contentious issue of expanding driver-only operation is not included in the new offer.

Mr Lynch said: “We’re just giving it a thorough discussion, because it took six months to get this offer.

“I’m not optimistic until our members tell me to be optimistic.

“What we’ve got is a really poor offer, the pay offer is less than half of the rate of inflation over these two years.

“I’m quite suspicious about what’s going on and I don’t know if our members would be prepared to accept it.

“It’ll be up to our members to decide, and they’ll inform the leadership.”

A Department for Transport spokesperson said: “This dispute has gone on for far too long and we encourage the RMT to put this new offer to its members.

“This fair and reasonable offer guarantees employees a pay rise in line with the private sector and no compulsory redundancies, while delivering the reforms needed to address the long-term challenges facing the industry.”

The RDG has been approached for comment.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: BBM on February 01, 2023, 10:58:26
James Davis from GWR was on BBC Radio Berkshire this morning, he said that this time the strike action would affect local branch lines in the Thames Valley including Gunnislake to West Ealing ::)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on February 01, 2023, 13:00:16
James Davis from GWR was on BBC Radio Berkshire this morning, he said that this time the strike action would affect local branch lines in the Thames Valley including Gunnislake to West Ealing ::)
Penzance running a St Ives and back service.
Plymouth is running a Gunnislake and back today it seems.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on February 03, 2023, 18:37:25
From The Grauniad (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/01/national-rail-revised-offer-rmt-dispute-union-strikes?utm_term=63db7769dc1bd72b400470851ab3370c&utm_campaign=BusinessToday&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=bustoday_email)

Quote
Network Rail makes revised offer to RMT in effort to end dispute
Union says it will consider details of offer after series of strikes over pay, jobs and working conditions

Network Rail has made a “newly revised” offer to Britain’s biggest rail workers’ union in an attempt to break the deadlock over a long-running dispute about pay, jobs and conditions.

Network Rail, which is responsible for track, signalling and other rail infrastructure in England, Scotland and Wales, said it had added some fresh proposals in the revised offer to the Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT).

The union, which represents signallers, maintenance staff and other Network Rail workers, said its executive would consider the details of the offer.

An RMT spokesperson added: “We will now consult members through branch and regional meetings. An update on our next steps will be forthcoming in due course.”

Tim Shoveller, the chief negotiator for Network Rail, said in a message to staff that the company was continuing with its plans for modernising maintenance, adding: “We must press on with this regardless of the pay dispute. We believe it will help to create a safer, better railway and jobs. Local consultation is under way and is providing the local level detail people want.

“We want to introduce a standard 35-hour working week for everyone. We’re now committing to work with the unions to review contracts above a 35-hour week so we can agree a way forward.”

“We’ll introduce a better long-service award framework for general grades, which will be backdated to 2022. We’ll improve carers’ leave. If you are a registered carer, you will be able to transfer five days paid volunteering leave to five days paid carers’ leave.”

Network Rail said updated elements of the offer included an increase in London allowances for those who are on or move on to different contracts.

It said it was offering a minimum uplift of a consolidated £1,750, or a 5% increase (whichever is greater) up to a maximum of £3,500, to the annual base rates of pay backdated to 1 January 2022, and a 4% increase to the annual base rates of pay effective from January 2023.

Over the two years, this adds up to an increase of between 9.2% to 14.4%, more for those on the lowest salaries, said Network Rail.

There was also a commitment to no compulsory redundancies until January 2025, a 75% leisure travel discount for employees and their families, a 75% price reduction on employees’ season tickets and an opportunity to sell 10 days of leave if any is carried over from 2022.

Apprentices will see a “big increase” to their pay, backdated to April 2022, Network Rail added.

The RMT has held a series of strikes over the past few months in its dispute with Network Rail, a row that is separate to the one with train operators.

The union’s dispute with Network Rail is separate to the train drivers’ row with rail operators, which led to a strike on Wednesday.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on February 10, 2023, 15:51:46
RMT rejects “dreadful” new offers from Network and train companies. So that’s a ‘no’ then  :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64600975


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on February 10, 2023, 16:52:12
RMT rejects “dreadful” new offers from Network and train companies. So that’s a ‘no’ then  :(

Quote
The RMT rail union has rejected pay offers from Network Rail and the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) in a blow to any hopes that the long-running dispute was close to reaching its end.

Network Rail and the RDG said the deals are their "best and final" offers.

But RMT boss, Mick Lynch, described them as "dreadful".

The rejection was made by the union's national executive committee but the industry and government want the offers to be put to a members' vote.

And how can that gap be bridges??


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 10, 2023, 17:38:06
RMT rejects “dreadful” new offers from Network and train companies. So that’s a ‘no’ then  :(

Quote
The RMT rail union has rejected pay offers from Network Rail and the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) in a blow to any hopes that the long-running dispute was close to reaching its end.

Network Rail and the RDG said the deals are their "best and final" offers.

But RMT boss, Mick Lynch, described them as "dreadful".

The rejection was made by the union's national executive committee but the industry and government want the offers to be put to a members' vote.

And how can that gap be bridges??

Letting the RMT membership have a say might be a start.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Henry on February 10, 2023, 17:43:21

 Staff earning less than £30,000 it was not a dreadful offer, approx 11%  with back-pay for 2022.
  A lot of RMT members did not get to vote as it was not a postal ballot, but an open vote by social media I believe.
 
 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on February 10, 2023, 17:59:02
Staff earning less than £30,000 it was not a dreadful offer, approx 11%  with back-pay for 2022.
  A lot of RMT members did not get to vote as it was not a postal ballot, but an open vote by social media I believe.
 

For the vast majority of members, it was not the pay offer that was the problem, but the 'reforms' that went with it.

Quote
The RMT union’s National Executive Committee has carefully considered the responses it has received since inviting branches, regional councils and representatives to submit their views on the offer tabled last week by Network Rail. Your NEC has now taken the following decision:

“This NEC notes that that following widespread consultation and debate across the membership:

responses were received from over 60 Branches
300 of our workplace representatives responded
an online meeting was held with over 100 train operating representatives

The overwhelming conclusion from this mass consultation is that the proposals from the RDG are entirely unacceptable and should be rejected.

The proposals include the closure of all Ticket Offices, job cuts and detrimental attacks to our members current terms and conditions, along with the creation of a two-tier workforce.

This NEC will not accept this poor pay offer and the carving up of hard-fought terms and conditions of our rail worker members.

Therefore, the General Secretary is instructed to seek further meetings with the Rail Delivery Group setting out a clear position that this National Executive Committee rejects the proposals in their entirety and to make clear this offer and its format is unacceptable to our members.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 10, 2023, 18:44:35
Lynch now seeking an "unconditional" pay offer.

 BBC News - RMT union rejects latest offers in rail dispute
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64600975


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on February 10, 2023, 18:50:34
Quote
The RMT said it was seeking "an unconditional pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members terms, conditions and working practices".

Not a hope....the best will be nothing % & no changes.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on February 10, 2023, 19:34:45
Quote
The RMT said it was seeking "an unconditional pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members terms, conditions and working practices".

Not a hope....the best will be nothing % & no changes.

To be brutally honest, many would accept just that if it was that or the current offer.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on February 11, 2023, 07:46:56
My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another.

Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 11, 2023, 08:51:22
Quote
The RMT said it was seeking "an unconditional pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members terms, conditions and working practices".

Not a hope....the best will be nothing % & no changes.

The RMT's position is now that they want an unconditional pay rise in a time of falling revenue and rising costs with no measures attached to reduce costs in order to mitigate it.

In a nutshell, this illustrates the fantasy world they inhabit.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 09:10:42
Quote
The RMT said it was seeking "an unconditional pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members terms, conditions and working practices".

Not a hope....the best will be nothing % & no changes.

The RMT's position is now that they want an unconditional pay rise in a time of falling revenue and rising costs with no measures attached to reduce costs in order to mitigate it.

In a nutshell, this illustrates the fantasy world they inhabit.

An unconditional payrise……. just like the MPs have been awarded then!  Surely what’s good enough for an MP should be good enough for us all?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on February 11, 2023, 09:16:02
You’re welcome to 2.9% with no strings attached in my book!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 09:33:50
You’re welcome to 2.9% with no strings attached in my book!

Apply for a job at the RDG!  I’ll provide you a reference. 2.9% and (£2,400 for the lowest paid). I’d take it.

You’ll do a much better job then the current incompetent lot.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on February 11, 2023, 09:43:04
both From the Telegraph, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/train-union-introduced-same-pension-reforms-for-office-staff-that-drivers-are-striking-over/ar-AA17lzWJ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=3856e08d1d1f4983ab6870ca6c1ee2fa)

Quote
Train union introduced same pension reforms for office staff that drivers are striking over

The train drivers’ union, Aslef, has been accused of “glaring hypocrisy” after imposing the same pension changes on its own office staff as those it is opposing on the railways.

Drivers across England walked out for the eighth time last week, bringing almost all services to a halt.

Mick Whelan, Aslef’s general secretary, described the long-running action as a “fight to maintain the pay, terms and conditions, and the pensions of our members”.

Among the reforms they are fighting is a plan to raise the retirement age from 62 to 65 for most staff.

But the union’s accounts reveal that the retirement age in the pension scheme it offers for its own staff has been raised to 66.

Chris Loder, a Tory MP, former railwayman and member of the Transport Select Committee, said: “This is glaring hypocrisy from Aslef. They clearly recognise their own pension scheme needs reform – but they are prepared to spoil the travel plans of millions to stop the same badly-needed changes happening on the railways.”

Aslef has been kept largely at arm’s length by train bosses as they focus their attention on striking a deal with the larger Rail, Maritime and Transport workers union (RMT).

But the RMT dealt passengers a huge blow on Friday as they rejected a 9 per cent pay rise by train operators and Network Rail.

The move raises the prospect of more industrial action after one of the most disrupted periods on the railways.

Train drivers, who earn an average £60,000 per year for in many cases a four-day week, enjoy generous defined-benefit pensions of a type that has almost vanished in the rest of the private sector. But the scheme has a reported funding gap of £5-6 billion.

To close it, managers are seeking to increase pay-outs to pensioners in line with the Consumer Price Index measure of inflation, instead of the higher Retail Price Index, as well as upping the retirement age for the majority.

Mr Whelan has pledged to “fight” the changes, telling a rally in August: “No one’s going to attack our terms and conditions while we’re fighting, no workers are going to be sacked while we’re fighting, no pensions will be slashed while we’re fighting.”

Aslef is also to ballot drivers on the London Underground for strikes over pensions, even though no specific changes have yet been proposed to the Tube’s scheme. “If TfL or the Government try to force through detrimental changes, the result will be sustained and hard-hitting industrial action,” Finn Brennan, the union’s London organiser, said.

The union’s latest annual accounts, quietly published last month, show that Aslef recently changed the in-house pension scheme it offers for its own staff, raising the retirement age to 66 and changing increases in payments “to be in line with CPI inflation, or 2.5 per cent if lower.” The scheme is also moving to a less generous “career average” arrangement for benefit accrual.

As a result, the accounts say, contributions paid by Aslef to staff members’ pensions will fall from 37 or 39.5 per cent of an employee’s salary to just 19.6 or 22.1 per cent. As with the wider rail industry, the action appears to have been taken to close a funding gap in the scheme, of £11.5 million in Aslef’s case.

Mr Whelan, the highest-paid member of the pension scheme, received pension contributions from the union of just under £29,000 in 2020-21, according to the accounts – almost as much as the entire national average full-time wage that year. This sum was in addition to his salary of £108,610.

‘The dispute today is only about pay’

Aslef is also seeking above-inflation pay rises for drivers, saying most have not had a pay rise since 2019. However, most train driver salaries, unlike those of other workforces in dispute, have largely kept pace with prices because of above-inflation increases in previous years.

The railways have lost around 20 per cent of their revenues with a post-pandemic decline in commuting and Mark Harper, the Transport Secretary, has warned that there is not “a bottomless pit” of money for pay rises.

A spokesman for Aslef said: “The dispute today is only about pay and not about anything else.”

The spokesman refused to respond to the allegation of hypocrisy.

And this (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/mick-lynch-forced-to-reject-pay-deal-as-rail-strikers-plot-to-bring-down-capitalism/ar-AA17kCtJ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=3856e08d1d1f4983ab6870ca6c1ee2fa)

Quote
Mick Lynch forced to reject pay deal as rail strikers plot to bring down capitalism

Mick Lynch has been forced to reject a pay deal that would have ended the rail strikes following a backlash from union members plotting to bring down capitalism.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport workers union (RMT) general secretary turned down a wage increase of 9pc on Friday, despite his own deputies helping to draft the agreement attached to it.

Mr Lynch said: "Our members cannot accept the ripping up of their terms and conditions.”

The refusal to even put the offer to a ballot of the RMT’s 40,000 members has now left Government and industry sources questioning whether Mr Lynch has lost control of the union and is only “leader of the RMT in name”.

A Whitehall source said: "His statement today reads like a hostage note. It's probably a matter of time before he goes.”

An internal memo, seen by The Telegraph, reveals the pressure Mr Lynch is under from roughly 450 branch leaders.  

The activists order Mr Lynch to do more to hasten “the suppression of the capitalist system by a socialistic order of society”.

They also call for rail strikes every Saturday to advance their agenda, and demand Mr Lynch increase members' fees to establish a war chest to pay strikers.

The RMT's national executive committee will meet on Feb 15 to consider announcing fresh strike dates. Mr Lynch has also committed to discuss the setting up of a strike fund.

Mark Harper, the Transport Secretary, said: “The RMT’s rejection of these best and final offers is a kick in the teeth for passengers across the country and the RMT's own members, who having been ordered to take strike action are now being blocked from having a say on their own future.

"The RMT’s leaders should have had the courage to allow their own members to have the chance to vote on their own pay and conditions, rather than making that decision for them behind closed doors.

“It is time for those union leaders to face the reality – our railways are currently not financially sustainable, reform is essential. I have played my part. I met union leaders. The Rail Minister and I facilitated regular meetings between all parties. We guaranteed fair and reasonable offers on pay and reform. It is now clear that no realistic offer is ever going to be good enough for the RMT leadership.”

In leaked feedback from branch leaders, Mr Lynch is told: “We believe that these offers do nothing to offer our members job security and are simply an attack on terms and conditions, attacking everything from our members roles, their work life balance to their ability to have a safe and proper break, all attached to a pay cut.”

East Midlands Central refers to changes to working practices as a “bonfire of TOC [train operator company] members' terms and conditions”.

It calls for “strikes on every Saturday for the duration of the dispute apart from May. [And] a continuous three-day strike starting on the first Monday of May”.

The Newcastle branch says: “Having consulted the union's rule book... [it] stipulates the following – to work for the suppression of the capitalist system by a socialistic order of society and to improve the conditions and protect the interests of its members.

“It is evident from our perspective that we have failed in our pursuit to deliver these key objectives, demands and principles and as such, Newcastle rail and catering branch reaffirms its opening statement in that we reject these proposals outright and continue with an industrial strategy until such a time as we prevail.”

The RMT’s decision to reject what Mark Harper, the Transport Secretary, referred to as a “best and final” offer will come as a hammer blow to beleaguered commuters, who have suffered from the worst wave of industrial action for a generation.

In January it appeared that both sides were nearing a deal as both sides agreed to a statement that “we are working jointly towards a revised offer”.

RMT negotiators went through the conditions attached to the on a “line by line basis”, according to one source.

And the RMT’s approach contrasts with that of the TSSA, which on Friday said thousands of its members would be able to vote on a near-identical pay deal.

A senior rail source said: “This is a union which makes much of its democratic credentials. Yet after weeks of dithering and delay, fewer than five hundred activists and officials have rejected an offer on behalf of tens of thousands of ordinary members, who were denied a say.

“That is in stark contrast to the TSSA. They are making sure their members get a say on the offer we made. That’s what a democratic organisation does.

“It’s time to get real, the railway is on the brink. Since the strikes began staff have burnt through thousands in lost pay and the best part of half a billion pounds has vanished in revenue, we simply can not continue on as we are. So far only the TSSA appears to get it.”

The RMT declined to announce further strike dates and said it would seek further talks to work towards a negotiated settlement.

Mr Lynch added: "We have carried out an extensive listening exercise and our members have spoken.

"If our union did accept these offers, we would see a severe reduction in scheduled maintenance tasks, making the railways less safe, the closure of all ticket offices and thousands of jobs stripped out of the industry when the railways need more investment not less.

"Our industrial campaign will continue for as long as it takes to get a negotiated settlement that meets our members' reasonable expectations on jobs, pay and working conditions."


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on February 11, 2023, 09:45:19
You’re welcome to 2.9% with no strings attached in my book!

Apply for a job at the RDG!  I’ll provide you a reference. 2.9% and (£2,400 for the lowest paid). I’d take it.

You’ll do a much better job then the current incompetent lot.

I suspect that I'd need the Chancellor's job to get that through the DfT ::) Or Mick Whelan/Lynch's....coz I suspect the unions would turn even that offer down as too meagre


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 09:57:36
The articles you’ve quoted.

Personally, I’ve not heard about the ASLEF one.

The article relating to the RMT, well, the author and other parties seem to be totally clueless!!
“The refusal to even put the offer to a ballot of the RMT’s 40,000 members has now left Government and industry sources questioning whether Mr Lynch has lost control of the union and is only “leader of the RMT in name””

Mick Lynch doesn’t control the RMT.  He effectively just leads the RMT and represents the membership. The decisions are made democratically. The feeling in the messroom of the latest offer was of a strong rejection.
The government are deliberately trying to divide the workers. There are doing this by not allowing each TOC to negotiate a settlement. The current offers have little impact on some grades and a huge impact on others. The same applies within Network Rail.

The RDG have not made an unconditional offer. Perhaps because they don’t want to resolve the dispute. Make a 2.9% offer, or £2400 rise. The same as MPs are receiving, and let’s have a vote.

Staffing does not need reforming. The structure of the railway system needs reforming.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on February 11, 2023, 10:11:47
You’re welcome to 2.9% with no strings attached in my book!

Apply for a job at the RDG!  I’ll provide you a reference. 2.9% and (£2,400 for the lowest paid). I’d take it.

You’ll do a much better job then the current incompetent lot.

I suspect that I'd need the Chancellor's job to get that through the DfT ::) Or Mick Whelan/Lynch's....coz I suspect the unions would turn even that offer down as too meagre

I refer you to reply #509 above


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on February 11, 2023, 10:24:46
But would the Micks (plural) put the offer to a members vote?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 10:34:58
But would the Micks (plural) put the offer to a members vote?

You would hope so. It depends on the strength of feeling from all the local branches. I think we have to accept 5% is probably as high as any offer would go.
At the end of the day, it’s a 1% difference from an offer with ridiculous changes to T&C’s attached. After deductions we are talking just a few £. Is it really worth it?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 11, 2023, 13:06:09
My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another.

Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members

FBU is balloting all its members on the offer.

If a ballot's good enough for one public sector union then surely it's good enough for another?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 14:01:54
My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another.

Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members

FBU is balloting all its members on the offer.

If a ballot's good enough for one public sector union then surely it's good enough for another?

The difference being the offers made to the respective unions are not identical.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 11, 2023, 16:22:49
My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another.

Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members

FBU is balloting all its members on the offer.

If a ballot's good enough for one public sector union then surely it's good enough for another?

The difference being the offers made to the respective unions are not identical.

That's one interesting way of looking at it!  :)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on February 11, 2023, 19:00:13
My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another.

Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members

FBU is balloting all its members on the offer.

If a ballot's good enough for one public sector union then surely it's good enough for another?

You do realise that since the government made laws to prohibit electronic ballots, each postal ballot is extremely expensive.  If the government would be prepared to change the law to allow electronic ballots.  If they hadn't made such restrictive laws, unions might be more willing to ballot on offers. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 20:55:59
My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another.

Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members

FBU is balloting all its members on the offer.

If a ballot's good enough for one public sector union then surely it's good enough for another?

The difference being the offers made to the respective unions are not identical.

That's one interesting way of looking at it!  :)

It’s the only way of looking at it!  Correct me if I’m wrong, the offer made to the FBU is unconditional.
Again, correct me if I’m wrong, a previous unconditional pay offer was previously rejected.

The RMT or ASLEF have never been in that position.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on February 15, 2023, 17:26:23
This needs watching - it's an excellent interview

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001j8vq/hardtalk-mick-lynch-general-secretary-rmt-union


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on February 16, 2023, 17:43:26
New strike dates announced


TOC staff

 0001 hours and 2359 hours on Thursday 16th March 2023
 0001 hours and 2359 hours on Saturday 18th March 2023
 0001 hours and 2359 hours on Thursday 30th March 2023
 0001 hours and 2359 hours on Saturday 1st April 2023

Signallers

Strike: 0001 hours and 2359 hours on Thursday 16th March 2023
Overtime Ban: 0001 Hours on Sunday 26th March 2023 and 2359 Hours on Saturday 1st April 2023 / 0001 Hours on Sunday 9th April 2023 and 2359 Hours on Saturday 15th April 2023 / 0001 Hours on Sunday 23rd April 2023 and 2359 Hours on Saturday 29th April 2023


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on February 16, 2023, 17:57:41
RMT Press Release
Quote
PRESS RELEASE: 15 February 2023

RMT Press Office:

Rail union RMT, will take nationwide strike action across the railways on 16 March after employers refused to put any new offers on the table.

The union which represents 40,000 workers across Network Rail and 14 train operators rejected offers from employers last week, as they did not meet the needs of members on pay, job security or working conditions.

Rail workers will now launch a programme of strike action and Network Rail members will commence an overtime ban effecting maintenance and operations work.

RMT is seeking an unconditional offer from rail operators and Network Rail.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "Rail employers are not being given a fresh mandate by the government to offer our members a new deal on pay, conditions and job security.

"Therefore, our members will now take sustained and targeted industrial action over the next few months.

"The government can settle this dispute easily by unshackling the rail companies.

"However, its stubborn refusal to do so will now mean more strike action across the railway network and a very disruptive overtime ban.

"Ministers cannot continue to sit on their hands hoping this dispute will go away as our members are fully prepared to fight tooth and nail for a negotiated settlement in the months ahead."

END


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on February 16, 2023, 18:06:13
Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet…


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on February 16, 2023, 18:13:36
Probably does for those workers trying to use the trains too.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on February 16, 2023, 18:42:15
Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet…

Nothing to prevent anyone unhappy with the dates announced from crossing a picket and booking on.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 16, 2023, 20:31:27
Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet…

Hearts bleeding across the land.....


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on February 17, 2023, 06:56:55
Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet…

Nothing to prevent anyone unhappy with the dates announced from crossing a picket and booking on.

It's never as simple as it sounds for an individual, it is known that so called "black legs" will be ostracised by their work colleges for years for people in safety critical rolls could lead to dangerous occupancies.

There is disquiet within some NR work locations, there have been people leave the RMT.  The RMT move to ban overtime for NR staff could backfire


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: infoman on February 17, 2023, 12:22:33
March and April strike dates have been announced
Thursday March 16,
Saturday march 18
Thursday March 30
Saturday April 1,


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on February 17, 2023, 12:37:23
See reply 527 above. ???


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 24, 2023, 14:16:47
TSSA accepts offer and calls off industrial action.

https://news.sky.com/story/train-drivers-union-tssa-cancels-strike-action-after-members-accept-pay-deal-12818865


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Wizard on February 25, 2023, 11:26:21
Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet…

Nothing to prevent anyone unhappy with the dates announced from crossing a picket and booking on.

When you see staff members that are still ostracised 41 years on after coming in during the 1982 dispute, that’s not entirely true.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 25, 2023, 12:05:08
Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet…

Nothing to prevent anyone unhappy with the dates announced from crossing a picket and booking on.

When you see staff members that are still ostracised 41 years on after coming in during the 1982 dispute, that’s not entirely true.

That says a great deal more about those doing the ostracising than the staff members who went to work.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Wizard on February 26, 2023, 08:21:52
Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet…

Nothing to prevent anyone unhappy with the dates announced from crossing a picket and booking on.

When you see staff members that are still ostracised 41 years on after coming in during the 1982 dispute, that’s not entirely true.

That says a great deal more about those doing the ostracising than the staff members who went to work.

Whilst that may be true, it isn’t much comfort to the staff involved.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 26, 2023, 09:18:30
An interesting conflation of the conflict in Ukraine with the latest RMT dispute from one of the NEC....... ::)


https://twitter.com/STWuk/status/1629483933548044292?s=20


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on February 27, 2023, 03:23:03


When you see staff members that are still ostracised 41 years on after coming in during the 1982 dispute, that’s not entirely true.

Just how many 57+ year old staff are there still ostracising picket line crossing colleagues?

There's bearing a grudge for four decades then there's hyperbole...  ::)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on February 27, 2023, 04:11:40
The recent First Kernow bus strike saw a minority of union members 'intimidating' others by hard staring at certain vantage points.
Feelings still run deep between strikers and non strikers.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 27, 2023, 06:30:18
The recent First Kernow bus strike saw a minority of union members 'intimidating' others by hard staring at certain vantage points.
Feelings still run deep between strikers and non strikers.

Paddington Bear used the same tactic.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Wizard on February 27, 2023, 10:55:42


When you see staff members that are still ostracised 41 years on after coming in during the 1982 dispute, that’s not entirely true.

Just how many 57+ year old staff are there still ostracising picket line crossing colleagues?

There's bearing a grudge for four decades then there's hyperbole...  ::)

As a quarter of all drivers are 55 and over, quite a few. And that rubs off on others too.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on February 27, 2023, 18:08:22
The recent First Kernow bus strike saw a minority of union members 'intimidating' others by hard staring at certain vantage points.
Feelings still run deep between strikers and non strikers.

Paddington Bear used the same tactic.

But that's a fictional character, the relationship between strikers and workers who cross picket lines is real life


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 01, 2023, 06:35:31
The recent First Kernow bus strike saw a minority of union members 'intimidating' others by hard staring at certain vantage points.
Feelings still run deep between strikers and non strikers.

Paddington Bear used the same tactic.

But that's a fictional character, the relationship between strikers and workers who cross picket lines is real life

I'm indebted to you for that clarification.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on March 01, 2023, 19:39:50
But that's a fictional character,

Paddington Bear isn't real??!!  :o :o :o

Say it isn't so. :'(


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on March 06, 2023, 14:43:22
Talks to avoid more rail strikes on brink of failure

From The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64861170)

Quote
National level talks between the Rail Delivery Group and the RMT appear to be on the brink of failure, as another train strike looms next Thursday.

Now, the RDG, which represents train companies, has written to the union saying that if the latest offer is not put to union members in a vote, national level talks may not resume.

It says talks would have to be opened between the RMT and each individual train company involved.

The RMT has been contacted for comment.

The national rail dispute has been at an impasse since the RMT's national executive committee rejected "best and final" offers from rail bosses.

The RDG will wait for the RMT's response before deciding how to proceed.

The Rail Delivery Group (RDG) and the RMT - the largest rail union - have been negotiating for months.

Unions have been calling for an unconditional pay offer during talks with the RDG and Network Rail.

The RMT has previously said it is "focused on coming to a negotiated settlement", and that it had carried out an "in-depth consultation" before the decision to reject was made. As well as an unconditional pay offer, it called for "a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members' terms, conditions and working practices".

The government and industry have said all along that any pay increase must be on condition of "reforms".

The industry viewed the demand for an "unconditional" pay offer as rejecting the premise of negotiations.

Rail workers have been offered pay rises of 5% for 2022/23 and 4% for 2023/4, in exchange for changes to working practices.

The government controls how much money is on the table and has to sign off on what is agreed. There has been no sign it is prepared to enable further offers to be made.

A smaller union, the TSSA, has accepted.

Network Rail boss Andrew Haines has also cast doubt on the prospect of negotiations resuming, expressing frustration.

He said: "We are having to take stock because three consecutive times we've agreed… what we believed was an in principle deal with the negotiators, only for it to be rejected three times by the executive committee of the RMT."

Network Rail hopes that more trains will be able to run on 16 March compared with previous strikes, however the service that is on offer will still be very limited.

Separately, the train drivers' union Aslef has held a series of meetings with the RDG in recent weeks, after its initial offer was strongly rejected. The union viewed it as a chance to start again with a blank sheet.

Aslef currently has no more strikes in the diary but further action is possible without a breakthrough.

It says talks would have to be opened between the RMT and each individual train company involved. - isn't that what the RMT has been suggesting almost from the start?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 06, 2023, 14:59:45
"The government and industry have said all along that any pay increase must be on condition of reforms. The industry viewed the demand for an "unconditional" pay offer as rejecting the premise of negotiations".

I think this is a pivotal point - if the RMT think they are going to get an unconditional pay offer which isn't linked to reforms to reduce costs at a time of falling demand and income and a rising cost base then they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Taxpayer subsidies to the railways are already huge - how much more are the public going to tolerate without mitigation from the industry?





Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: trainbuff on March 06, 2023, 22:48:45
Much of the money goes to the Rolling stock companies and for profit. Why cant the  offer be the same as for firefighters to which no conditions were attached?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on March 07, 2023, 07:41:05
Talks to avoid more rail strikes on brink of failure

From The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64861170)

Quote
National level talks between the Rail Delivery Group and the RMT appear to be on the brink of failure, as another train strike looms next Thursday.

Now, the RDG, which represents train companies, has written to the union saying that if the latest offer is not put to union members in a vote, national level talks may not resume.

It says talks would have to be opened between the RMT and each individual train company involved.

.......................

It says talks would have to be opened between the RMT and each individual train company involved. - isn't that what the RMT has been suggesting almost from the start?

I just wonder if this says more about a lack of agreement between the employers, that is some of the employers may be willing or in a better place to offer a deal that they believe the Union members in their business will accept, the DfT (Government) putting the RDG in the lead to get a single deal across all the TOC's flys in the face of one of the concepts of rail privatisation was the to "break the power of the Unions"

"The government and industry have said all along that any pay increase must be on condition of reforms. The industry viewed the demand for an "unconditional" pay offer as rejecting the premise of negotiations".

I think this is a pivotal point - if the RMT think they are going to get an unconditional pay offer which isn't linked to reforms to reduce costs at a time of falling demand and income and a rising cost base then they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Taxpayer subsidies to the railways are already huge - how much more are the public going to tolerate without mitigation from the industry?

The RMT do not want an unconditional pay offer, they have always been open to negotiation, and there is evidence of give an take of both the Unions and employers but this is being constrained by the Government.  The cynic in me says the main reason why the Government are now willing to talk to the NHS Unions on a pay deal is the Local Elections in May where NHS strikes would be politically bad news especially is strikes happened on Polling Day


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 07, 2023, 07:47:10
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute

3rd paragraph;

"The union said it was seeking an "unconditional“ pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members’ terms, conditions and working practices".



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on March 07, 2023, 09:52:07
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute

3rd paragraph;

"The union said it was seeking an "unconditional“ pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members’ terms, conditions and working practices".



This article is over a month old!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 07, 2023, 09:58:20
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute

3rd paragraph;

"The union said it was seeking an "unconditional“ pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members’ terms, conditions and working practices".



This article is over a month old!

This one's less than a day old;

https://inews.co.uk/news/train-strikes-talks-collapse-rmt-union-pay-deal-2191340?ico=related_stories#:~:text=An%20offer%20of%20a%20salary%20increase%20of%205,which%20rail%20companies%20have%20refused%20to%20agree%20to.


"Industrial relations fell further after the union demanded that any pay increase be “unconditional”, a demand that rail companies have refused to agree to".


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 07, 2023, 20:03:32
BBC News - RMT members suspend strike action at Network Rail
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64883158


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on March 20, 2023, 13:43:27
RMT members at Network Rail vote to accept pay deal

From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65015207)

Quote
Thousands of signal workers and maintenance staff in the RMT have voted to accept an offer from Network Rail.

It means they will not take part in any more strikes in the long-running dispute over pay, jobs and working conditions.

RMT members who work for 14 train operating companies are still due to walk out on 30 March and 1 April.

But the Network Rail result will be seen as a significant breakthrough.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said the dispute was now over, but said RMT members at the train operating companies would continue to strike unless they received the "right offer".

"The ball is in the government's court," he added.

The question now is whether this opens the door to progress on the train companies' side of the dispute.

The deal has been accepted after Network Rail amended its previously rejected offer of a 5% pay rise for 2022 and a 4% increase this year.

The government did not put any more money on the table, but the tweaked proposals backdated this year's pay increase by three months, meaning workers end up with a bigger lump sum upfront.

The RMT said the offer amounted to an uplift on salaries of between 14.4% for the lowest paid grades to 9.2% for the highest paid.

The package also included heavily discounted leisure travel.

There have been a string of rail strikes since June last year.

Without signalling staff involved, the disruption caused by RMT's walkouts is on a slightly smaller scale. Operators not directly involved are unaffected.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Phantom on March 21, 2023, 10:54:59
I'm going from WSM to Cardiff on Thursday 30th around lunchtime, and then return the next day late morning

Does anyone know when the timetables will be finalised for those dates please?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on March 21, 2023, 11:15:36
Roughly 2-3 days before hand, so likely to be Monday next week, similar to last week's strikes


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on March 22, 2023, 17:49:13
Rail strikes for 30th of March and 1st of April have been called off:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64896128


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on March 22, 2023, 17:54:31
Hopefully it's the beginning of the end of RMT action.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on March 22, 2023, 17:57:02
Wonder how ASLEF will take this?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 22, 2023, 18:12:09
Wonder how ASLEF will take this?

In calling off the strike action that means they are in the same position as ASLEF.  In dispute, but with negotiations open and no strike action dates in the pipeline.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on March 22, 2023, 18:49:59
Wonder how ASLEF will take this?

In calling off the strike action that means they are in the same position as ASLEF.  In dispute, but with negotiations open and no strike action dates in the pipeline.

And the next meeting is arranged for the 04 April so it’s unlikely any new dates or offers will be announced before then.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on March 22, 2023, 21:04:34
Suggests it might be safe to make Easter travel plans.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on March 22, 2023, 21:10:20
Yup!

The RMT will need a new strike mandate by the middle of May too. That could be interesting


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on March 23, 2023, 03:06:44
Yup!

The RMT will need a new strike mandate by the middle of May too. That could be interesting

Details of a new ballot to be circulated to RMT members today.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on April 06, 2023, 16:29:10
From Proactive Investors (https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/1011551/rail-talks-hit-dead-end-strikes-spell-easter-travel-chaos-1011551.html)

Quote
Negotiations between the National Unon of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) and rail companies have hit a dead end, the former said on Thursday.

“No new document has been produced” by the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) since RMT suspended planned strike action on March 30 and April 1, leaving members “frustrated” according to the union.

It had cancelled the strikes after a proposal made by the RDG on March 22, but suggested talks had ground to a halt since, with re-ballot papers being sent to members from Thursday.

“While negotiations continue, we remain in dispute and resolute in our determination to win a further mandate for strike action in the upcoming re-ballot,” said RMT.

I am always cautious about single source stories ... so just for the moment this could be a first release that other will follow, or it could prove false as it is clarified.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on April 06, 2023, 18:57:43
I am always cautious about single source stories ... so just for the moment this could be a first release that other will follow, or it could prove false as it is clarified.


RMT press release today, 6th April 2023:
Quote
RMT Press Office:

The union has had several meetings with the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) since we suspended our strike action on the 14 train operators, following a proposal made to us on March 22nd.

These meetings were to further discuss the issues of the dispute - in particular Year 2 of the proposal that led to the suspension of strikes and the process of workforce reform.
 
However, no new document has been produced by the employer.
 
Members are rightly frustrated by this, and the Tory government is once again absent when it comes to giving the RDG the mandate to produce a new document.
 
The RDG have agreed to write to us in due course and we will be meeting them next week.
 
While negotiations continue, we remain in dispute and resolute in our determination to win a further mandate for strike action in the upcoming re-ballot.
 
Be in no doubt, if further strikes are needed, RMT will not hesitate to act to ensure a negotiated settlement on jobs, pay and working conditions.
 
END
 
Notes: Re-ballot papers for a further 6-month strike mandate go out today with a closing date of May 4.

As long as, following that ballot and with a mandate, the RMT don't choose any dates between 16th - 23rd May. With the minimum 14 days notice ahead of strike action they could just pick a date during my holiday.

Although, aware of the potential for further strike action, I have taken out an insurance policy for my holiday to Isle of Man.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: MVR S&T on April 06, 2023, 20:58:21
Wish they would sort this, still do not feel confident to book anything yet. Still, the Swanage now have their Wareham link open, so a day trip to Corfe is a must soon.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on April 06, 2023, 21:57:22
I misread that as 'Corfu' initially. Quite some day trip!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: MVR S&T on April 06, 2023, 22:01:30
I have done Bournemouth to Edinburgh and back in a day, a long time ago mind!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 27, 2023, 11:09:29
Following ASLEF’s rejection of the latest RDG proposal, strike dates have been called for 12th May, 31st May and 3rd June.  With a rest day and overtime ban on 13th May, 15-20th May and 1st June.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on April 27, 2023, 12:47:40
Following ASLEF’s rejection of the latest RDG proposal, strike dates have been called for 12th May, 31st May and 3rd June.  With a rest day and overtime ban on 13th May, 15-20th May and 1st June.
More on this breaking news story here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65410800

Quote
Train drivers are set to strike again, including on the day of the FA Cup final, as part of a long-running row over pay, the Aslef union says.

As well as striking on 3 June, members will walk out on 12 May and 31 May.

It comes after the union rejected a fresh offer from 16 train firms, including a 4% pay rise for two years in a row and changes to conditions.

The organisation which represents train companies said the walkouts were "totally unnecessary".

The action is expected to cause major disruption across large parts of the country's railways, with some 13,000 drivers striking over the three days.

The first day of strike action on 12 May is the day before the Eurovision Song Contest final in Liverpool.

On 3 June, thousands of football fans are set to travel to Wembley Stadium in London as Manchester United take on their rivals Manchester City in the FA Cup final.




Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 27, 2023, 14:01:11
Striking on Cup Final day.......that'll get a lot of public sympathy in Manchester!  ::)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on April 27, 2023, 16:36:10
Striking on Cup Final day.......that'll get a lot of public sympathy in Manchester!  ::)
I suspect striking the day before Eurovision isn't going to go down well either, especially given the circumstances that Liverpool are hosting the event is because the winners last year, Ukraine can't.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: infoman on April 27, 2023, 17:59:51
RMT strike day announced for saturday 13th May.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 27, 2023, 18:45:41
RMT strike day announced for saturday 13th May.

The date of Army v Navy at Twickenham. Highlight of many veterans year.....

The ASLEF/RMT bruvvers have really thought these dates through haven't they?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on April 27, 2023, 18:47:10
Bullets dodged thus far for my travel to the Isle of Man on 16th/17th May. ASLEF's overtime ban between 15th-20th May will hopefully not affect me. Depot drivers only for SWR and Grand Central aren't affected at all. Enough padding in my schedule from Shipley to Heysham on the 17th if there's service disruption on Northern Trains due to that overtime ban. Push comes to shove I can get a taxi from Lancaster station to the port.

Conceivably, my return journey could be affected if the RMT get a renewed six month mandate for strike action from the ballot result due on the 4th May. They do have to give 14 days notice of strike action so my outward travel on 16th/17th May can't be affected. I just hope they don't decide on 22nd May as a strike day if they get another mandate.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: CyclingSid on April 28, 2023, 06:55:10
Quote
I suspect striking the day before Eurovision isn't going to go down well either, especially given the circumstances that Liverpool are hosting the event is because the winners last year, Ukraine can't.
Doesn't look good in comparison with Ukrainian Railways.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on May 04, 2023, 18:29:32
RMT have got another 6 month mandate for continued strike action against 14 TOCs.

Ballot results saw 91% vote yes. Average turnout across the TOCs was 70%

From the RMT (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-members-overwhelmingly-back-further-strike-action/)
Quote
4 May 2023

RMT Press Office:

RAIL union RMT announced the results of a re-ballot of members working for 14 train operating companies today which massively re-affirmed a mandate for further strike action.

All the ballots passed the 50 per cent participation threshold imposed by the government’s anti-trade union laws and included massive votes for further strike action.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said that the overwhelming backing for further strike action across 14 train operating companies was a de-facto referendum on the dispute.

“It is clear from these results that members are not prepared to accept a pay offer based on mass job cuts and major attacks on their terms and conditions.

“This sends a clear message to the employers that the huge anger amongst rail workers is very real and they need to recognise that fact, face reality and make improved proposals.

“They need to get around the table with RMT and negotiate in good faith for a better deal for rail workers,” he said.

The breakdown of the votes at each TOC was:
(https://images2.imgbox.com/55/af/69fPkpj8_o.jpg)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on May 04, 2023, 18:56:58
That certainly is an overwhelming mandate, not much changed from the previous ballot.

Now we wait to see what the RMT Executive do next with regards to industrial action.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on May 04, 2023, 20:35:46
Wasn’t the previous mandate across 16 TOCs, or is my memory faulty?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on May 04, 2023, 20:42:31
Wasn’t the previous mandate across 16 TOCs, or is my memory faulty?

Previous mandate in November 2022 was 14 TOCs, but it also included Network Rail. RMT staff at Network Rail settled back in March.
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-renews-national-rail-strike-mandate-for-another-6-months/


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on May 06, 2023, 06:32:41
From Left Foot Forward (https://leftfootforward.org/2023/05/transport-secretary-called-out-over-rail-dispute-mistruths-on-bbc-question-time/) (the name of the publication suggests a particular political position)

Quote
The transport secretary Mark Harper has been accused of “muddying the waters” by presenting misleading narratives in the rail dispute, on BBC Question Time last night.

When answering questions on resolving the rail strikes, Mark Harper attempted to shirk responsibility by referring to train drivers pay and unused ticket offices.

It comes as the RMT union smashed their latest mandate for strike action, meaning members working for 14 train operating companies could strike again over the next six months.

It is their third mandate in the National Rail Dispute, with the latest receiving a 91% yes vote.

Mick Lynch, RMT general secretary said the mandate sends a clear message to employers of the “huge anger” amongst rail workers.

Speaking about the rail disputes and supposed job losses of ticket staff, Harper said people do not buy tickets from ticket offices anymore and that they are not needed.

Peter Hitchens, an English conservative author, who has been referred to as an “unlikely union man” since his appearance on the show last night, blasted Harper for deflecting the issue and questioned if this had really been agreed.

I note though

* 91% is a significant vote at a third mandate

* It's very hard for me to buy a ticket from my local ticket office when there isn't one. That's why I don't buy from the ticket office - I can't! People I speak with in my Town Council role tell me that one of the things that puts them off using the train is not understanding the ticketing and fare and car parking payment systems that a real live person could help them resolve.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 06, 2023, 08:11:55
From Left Foot Forward (https://leftfootforward.org/2023/05/transport-secretary-called-out-over-rail-dispute-mistruths-on-bbc-question-time/) (the name of the publication suggests a particular political position)

Quote
The transport secretary Mark Harper has been accused of “muddying the waters” by presenting misleading narratives in the rail dispute, on BBC Question Time last night.

When answering questions on resolving the rail strikes, Mark Harper attempted to shirk responsibility by referring to train drivers pay and unused ticket offices.

It comes as the RMT union smashed their latest mandate for strike action, meaning members working for 14 train operating companies could strike again over the next six months.

It is their third mandate in the National Rail Dispute, with the latest receiving a 91% yes vote.

Mick Lynch, RMT general secretary said the mandate sends a clear message to employers of the “huge anger” amongst rail workers.

Speaking about the rail disputes and supposed job losses of ticket staff, Harper said people do not buy tickets from ticket offices anymore and that they are not needed.

Peter Hitchens, an English conservative author, who has been referred to as an “unlikely union man” since his appearance on the show last night, blasted Harper for deflecting the issue and questioned if this had really been agreed.

I note though

* 91% is a significant vote at a third mandate

* It's very hard for me to buy a ticket from my local ticket office when there isn't one. That's why I don't buy from the ticket office - I can't! People I speak with in my Town Council role tell me that one of the things that puts them off using the train is not understanding the ticketing and fare and car parking payment systems that a real live person could help them resolve.

Then the answer is to simplify the ticketing and fare system, not sustain a necessity to employ people to explain it.

Over 80% of tickets are now purchased online, via ticket machines or other means such as tap in/out. We will never return to the previous situation. It is absurd to suggest that the railways should not recognise and act on this.

It isn't right to close every ticket office but neither is it right to insist, as the Trade Unions do, that there must be no change to the status quo.

Provision must be made for those that need help and this can be achieved via getting people out of ticket offices into a wider ranging customer service role, on the platform/concourse/gateline.

I think the Unions are correct on issues like DOO however it is correct to challenge their total intransigence on this one.

(And yes, as you and the name suggest, there are more objective sources than "Left Foot Forward")  :)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Fourbee on May 06, 2023, 09:00:13
Provision must be made for those that need help and this can be achieved via getting people out of ticket offices into a wider ranging customer service role, on the platform/concourse/gateline.
Depending on the station setup, wouldn't another situation to get people out from "behind the glass" be just to remove the glass? That way people can still be served in turn rather than potentially swamping them in a random order on the station?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Clan Line on May 06, 2023, 15:20:59


...................... is it right to insist, as the Trade Unions do, that there must be no change to the status quo.


Just how long did it take to get rid of "firemen" (under various other names) on diesel/electric locos.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 06, 2023, 16:19:17


...................... is it right to insist, as the Trade Unions do, that there must be no change to the status quo.


Just how long did it take to get rid of "firemen" (under various other names) on diesel/electric locos.

I don't know........years? decades?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: froome on May 10, 2023, 19:30:51
We were originally planning on travelling on Friday up to mid Wales to a friend's celebration there, and have accommodation booked. With the uncertainty about whether any trains will be running on either Friday or Saturday, we have now decided to travel tomorrow and stay an extra night.

However, my question is about bustitution on strike days, as our journey would have involved using this (between Shrewsbury and Machynlleth). If it isn't known well in advance whether a train service can be run to link with this service, is the bustitution automatically cancelled, or is it retained 'just in case'?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on May 10, 2023, 21:08:44
Usually cancelled if no rail services are running


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Ollie on May 11, 2023, 01:18:20
Transport for Wales aren't part of the dispute. Any rail replacement to cover their service should be running as normal.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on May 13, 2023, 12:47:19
I notice that after have a limited service between Plymouth - Penzance for today advertised nearly all week on the GWR strike page it's gone this morning..


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 14, 2023, 08:23:07
From what I could see South Western's reduced timetable held up pretty well yesterday, I went to Twickenham from Windsor for the Army v Navy match - virtually normal service in the morning but an early finish to services for which my liver at least was grateful.

It was easy to see that others had been affected however as the crowd was much smaller than usual - the RFU said 51,000 but it didn't seem like that many were there.

It was clear that train services from Liverpool had been particularly badly affected as the National Anthem was impeccably observed without any booing or jeering in evidence!  ;)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: stuving on May 14, 2023, 11:56:25
From what I could see South Western's reduced timetable held up pretty well yesterday, I went to Twickenham from Windsor for the Army v Navy match - virtually normal service in the morning but an early finish to services for which my liver at least was grateful.

It was easy to see that others had been affected however as the crowd was much smaller than usual - the RFU said 51,000 but it didn't seem like that many were there.

It was clear that train services from Liverpool had been particularly badly affected as the National Anthem was impeccably observed without any booing or jeering in evidence!  ;)

SWR did very much concentrate their limited resources on serving Twickenham (though ran as many trains via the Hounslow loop for some reason). So Windsor was about the only place to the west you get get there from, or via London along the main line from Salisbury or Farnborough (for Aldershot). Nothing ran from near Portsmouth ... favouritism?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 14, 2023, 16:06:14
From what I could see South Western's reduced timetable held up pretty well yesterday, I went to Twickenham from Windsor for the Army v Navy match - virtually normal service in the morning but an early finish to services for which my liver at least was grateful.

It was easy to see that others had been affected however as the crowd was much smaller than usual - the RFU said 51,000 but it didn't seem like that many were there.

It was clear that train services from Liverpool had been particularly badly affected as the National Anthem was impeccably observed without any booing or jeering in evidence!  ;)

SWR did very much concentrate their limited resources on serving Twickenham (though ran as many trains via the Hounslow loop for some reason). So Windsor was about the only place to the west you get get there from, or via London along the main line from Salisbury or Farnborough (for Aldershot). Nothing ran from near Portsmouth ... favouritism?

Yes ironically we were talking to a few people from Pompey many of whose friends had decided to give it a miss - hadn't thought of that though!  :)

The good news is - the RFU have announced that those who weren't able to make it to Twickenham yesterday due to the RMT strike can use their tickets for the corresponding fixture next season - a nice gesture.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on May 18, 2023, 17:11:23
RMT announces strike action Friday 2 June.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 18, 2023, 17:18:51
RMT announces strike action Friday 2 June.

Oh my word they really are muppets aren't they?

Or at least they're totally indifferent to public support

All those Mancunians who changed their FA Cup travel plans due to the strike on June 3 are now stuffed again.....


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 19, 2023, 16:14:13
RMT announces strike action Friday 2 June.

Oh my word they really are muppets aren't they?

Or at least they're totally indifferent to public support

You have to ask what difference public support is making now the dispute(s) has been going on for ages.  It doesn’t seem to be much of a factor (or consideration) any more from the ‘muppets’ on either side of the dispute…if indeed it ever was?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 19, 2023, 16:48:51
RMT announces strike action Friday 2 June.

Oh my word they really are muppets aren't they?

Or at least they're totally indifferent to public support

You have to ask what difference public support is making now the dispute(s) has been going on for ages.  It doesn’t seem to be much of a factor (or consideration) any more from the ‘muppets’ on either side of the dispute…if indeed it ever was?

Fair points.

I guess as far as the Unions are concerned it generates more headlines and keeps them in the News, although the Government know that overall the rail strike is causing only inconvenience rather than any serious disruption so are content to let it run on until it peters out................I suspect a face saving solution for both sides will be found at some stage that enables them both to claim victory (......that's the Unions and the Government, not City and United!!!) 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 19, 2023, 17:36:19
I guess as far as the Unions are concerned it generates more headlines and keeps them in the News, although the Government know that overall the rail strike is causing only inconvenience rather than any serious disruption so are content to let it run on until it peters out................I suspect a face saving solution for both sides will be found at some stage that enables them both to claim victory (......that's the Unions and the Government, not City and United!!!) 

I think that’s true, but only partially true.

The phrase ‘best and final offer’ has been used several times only for a better offer to then materialise soon after.  Sure, the better offer is nowhere near what the Unions are demanding, but they are improved offers nonetheless. 

If at some point it becomes clear it really is a best and final offer then I would expect staff to fairly quickly accept that fact and settle.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 19, 2023, 17:59:31
I guess as far as the Unions are concerned it generates more headlines and keeps them in the News, although the Government know that overall the rail strike is causing only inconvenience rather than any serious disruption so are content to let it run on until it peters out................I suspect a face saving solution for both sides will be found at some stage that enables them both to claim victory (......that's the Unions and the Government, not City and United!!!) 

I think that’s true, but only partially true.

The phrase ‘best and final offer’ has been used several times only for a better offer to then materialise soon after.  Sure, the better offer is nowhere near what the Unions are demanding, but they are improved offers nonetheless. 

If at some point it becomes clear it really is a best and final offer then I would expect staff to fairly quickly accept that fact and settle.

Provided of course they are given the chance to vote on accepting it, rather than Bruvver Mick and co deciding for them?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 19, 2023, 18:42:04
Yes, though I don’t think there has been an offer yet that would have been accepted that hasn’t been put to the membership.  But it would be interesting to know how close these offers are.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 31, 2023, 17:14:36
Despite tomorrow (1/6) not being a strike day, looking at the map/Journeycheck services seem to be pretty badly clobbered.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on May 31, 2023, 19:17:47
There is action tomorrow short of a strike by ASLEF - so no uncontracted overtime or rest-day working


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TonyN on June 01, 2023, 21:34:47
Today's Times cartoon

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/peter-brookes-times-cartoon-june-1-2023-7dl0bcc9t (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/peter-brookes-times-cartoon-june-1-2023-7dl0bcc9t)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 02, 2023, 07:00:24
Behind their paywall


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on June 02, 2023, 07:21:16
Behind their paywall

You can get a brief glimpse before the paywall comes up.  It's a [presumed] commuter asking an AI bot how soon before it can drive a train.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 02, 2023, 10:21:23
A.I. already drives some trains of course, and in theory it could drive all of them with technology that already exists.  And the same can be said for pilots and planes.

Whether the public will ever accept there being no driver when hurtling through the countryside is a different matter.  I think it will become a generational thing as we get more used to A.I. and in a couple of generations it will have become normalised.

I see A.I. as a potential threat to humanity over the coming decades.  It’s adapting incredibly quickly…just look at ChatGPT and recent updates to Photoshop which threatens to make lots of forms of photography and videography obsolete.  You simply won’t be able to tell what’s real and what’s fake very soon…which could be very dangerous.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 02, 2023, 17:12:50
Another voice of the RMT on the Ukraine situation - it's not just Dempsey and Lynch giving Putin a free pass, apparently it's war crimes and American vehicles "invading Russian territory" now.............one does wonder which planet these people inhabit..........and what RMT members think of their Leadership's rather bizarre take on events..........

https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1664555018848989187?s=20


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on June 02, 2023, 18:25:19
Support for then communist russia, was taken for granted by the more left wing trades unions during the cold war.
The facts that we won the the cold war, and that russia is no longer communist have obviously not yet penetrated the minds of the bruvvers.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 14, 2023, 12:10:39
Paul Clifton reporting that Train Drivers have voted overwhelmingly to continue industrial action:
https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1668937816150093830


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 14, 2023, 14:27:00
Includes ALL SWR drivers too this time, not just their depot drivers....


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ray951 on June 14, 2023, 15:57:16
It was Albert Einstein, apparently, who said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

The RMT TOC strikes have been going on for a year now and don't seem to be any closer to resolution, so by voting for more strikes what are the union and their members expecting to change?

It appears that the Government don't care about the railways and are just ignoring the unions and passengers just shrug their shoulders and make alternative arrangements, which may include not travelling by train again.

So is there anything that the RMT and ASLEF could do to change this situation?

Maybe an all-out strike would work, although I have been doubts given the lack of interest from the Government who would probably just use it as an excuse to close the railways down (or at least some of it) , or should they just cut their losses and accept what they have been offered?



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 14, 2023, 19:33:06
I think a change of tactic is likely.  Either an indefinite RDW/favours ban or an escalation of the number of days of action.  I think the RDW/favours ban is more likely, as that will cause huge disruption over summer weekends, but we will see.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on June 14, 2023, 20:18:46
I think a change of tactic is likely.  Either an indefinite RDW/favours ban or an escalation of the number of days of action.  I think the RDW/favours ban is more likely, as that will cause huge disruption over summer weekends, but we will see.

Barbecues all round, bruvvers and sistahs!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 15, 2023, 06:59:09
I think a change of tactic is likely.  Either an indefinite RDW/favours ban or an escalation of the number of days of action.  I think the RDW/favours ban is more likely, as that will cause huge disruption over summer weekends, but we will see.

Given that there is generally huge disruption over summer weekends, I doubt customers expectations are high in any case?

I think that given the relatively low impact on business/the public, the Government are ready to tough this one out and the Unions should realise this - perhaps there will be some cosmetic face saving concession made to the Unions to facilitate this in order to allow some banner waving and fist pumping by the Micks before postponing the revolution for now and getting back to work.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 15, 2023, 10:55:47
As long as the mandate for action stays strong (the recent ASLEF results are virtually identical to previous ones at around a 90% support for strikes) then I think ‘postponing the revolution’ will remain some way off. 

Potential disruption over weekends would be much worse than any of the usual crew shortages.  Sunday, so far, has not been used as a tactic by any of the unions.  If ‘action short of a strike’ took place, and all HSS drivers were to make themselves unavailable and LTV drivers only worked their committed ones, there would be very few Sunday services operating, instead of the 90-95% that typically run on a ‘bad’ summer Sunday.  Saturday/Weekday timetables would also probably have to be altered.

Though eventually a concession is a likely final scenario of course.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 15, 2023, 11:05:14
As long as the mandate for action stays strong (the recent ASLEF results are virtually identical to previous ones at around a 90% support for strikes) then I think ‘postponing the revolution’ will remain some way off. 



Is the 90% figure reflecting the total membership, or is it 90% of those who voted? What was the turnout?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 15, 2023, 11:11:14
As long as the mandate for action stays strong (the recent ASLEF results are virtually identical to previous ones at around a 90% support for strikes) then I think ‘postponing the revolution’ will remain some way off. 



Is the 90% figure reflecting the total membership, or is it 90% of those who voted? What was the turnout?

https://aslef.org.uk/publications/aslef-overwhelming-support-continued-industrial-action

Quote
Great Western Railway

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?
YES 1044 (90.63%)
NO 108 (9.37%)

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?
YES 1105 (96.17%)
NO 44 (3.83%)

Turnout: 78.45%


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 15, 2023, 11:16:44
A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong.  Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 15, 2023, 11:25:12
There appears to be no ballot results shown in that ASLEF press release for Chiltern. I wonder why?

Also, of those shown, only GTR Thameslink seems to be losing support for strike action, now down to 85%


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2023, 15:58:54
A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong.  Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO.

It may be easier to find a compromise (in the case of the RMT) if the somewhat boneheaded insistence by the Union of an "unconditional" pay rise is dropped. They are going to have to accept that getting something for nothing is not going to happen - perhaps as you have suggested clarification on which ticket offices are to go and which remain would be useful and something which may provide something to work on - if a significant/greater than expected number remain open it may be something Bruvver Mick could present as a "victory" which along with perhaps a very slight increase in the pay offer would get it over the line?



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on June 16, 2023, 16:24:23
A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong.  Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO.

It may be easier to find a compromise (in the case of the RMT) if the somewhat boneheaded insistence by the Union of an "unconditional" pay rise is dropped. They are going to have to accept that getting something for nothing is not going to happen - perhaps as you have suggested clarification on which ticket offices are to go and which remain would be useful and something which may provide something to work on - if a significant/greater than expected number remain open it may be something Bruvver Mick could present as a "victory" which along with perhaps a very slight increase in the pay offer would get it over the line?

I may have got this wrong, but my recollection was not that it had to be unconditional, but it must not depend on unspecified and unknown conditions that had not been negotiated.  Something on the lines of accept "x% and you agree to any change in conditions we might dream up in the next few months". That is very different.  I wouldn't accept a deal which had conditions that did not know about. Would you?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2023, 16:36:49
A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong.  Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO.

It may be easier to find a compromise (in the case of the RMT) if the somewhat boneheaded insistence by the Union of an "unconditional" pay rise is dropped. They are going to have to accept that getting something for nothing is not going to happen - perhaps as you have suggested clarification on which ticket offices are to go and which remain would be useful and something which may provide something to work on - if a significant/greater than expected number remain open it may be something Bruvver Mick could present as a "victory" which along with perhaps a very slight increase in the pay offer would get it over the line?

I may have got this wrong, but my recollection was not that it had to be unconditional, but it must not depend on unspecified and unknown conditions that had not been negotiated.  Something on the lines of accept "x% and you agree to any change in conditions we might dream up in the next few months". That is very different.  I wouldn't accept a deal which had conditions that did not know about. Would you?

I refer you to replies 548, 549, 552 & 554 on this very thread.

This will help too (3rd para)

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 16, 2023, 16:39:34
Do we think that either party actually wants to resolve this dispute?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2023, 16:46:57
Do we think that either party actually wants to resolve this dispute?

Fair point and good question.

I don't think the Government is too bothered as it's having very little effect beyond inconvenience and isn't going to lose them many votes - people are simply finding alternatives.

Of the Unions, Lynch is happy to use it as a vehicle for his own profile & political grandstanding - he's clearly enjoying the attention.

In many ways, two cheeks of the same arse?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 16, 2023, 17:19:07
A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong.  Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO.

It may be easier to find a compromise (in the case of the RMT) if the somewhat boneheaded insistence by the Union of an "unconditional" pay rise is dropped. They are going to have to accept that getting something for nothing is not going to happen - perhaps as you have suggested clarification on which ticket offices are to go and which remain would be useful and something which may provide something to work on - if a significant/greater than expected number remain open it may be something Bruvver Mick could present as a "victory" which along with perhaps a very slight increase in the pay offer would get it over the line?

To my knowledge ASLEF have never made any demand that a pay rise would be “unconditional”.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2023, 18:13:58
A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong.  Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO.

It may be easier to find a compromise (in the case of the RMT) if the somewhat boneheaded insistence by the Union of an "unconditional" pay rise is dropped. They are going to have to accept that getting something for nothing is not going to happen - perhaps as you have suggested clarification on which ticket offices are to go and which remain would be useful and something which may provide something to work on - if a significant/greater than expected number remain open it may be something Bruvver Mick could present as a "victory" which along with perhaps a very slight increase in the pay offer would get it over the line?

To my knowledge ASLEF have never made any demand that a pay rise would be “unconditional”.

That would be why I stated specifically "in the case of the RMT"


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on June 16, 2023, 21:09:32

I refer you to replies 548, 549, 552 & 554 on this very thread.

This will help too (3rd para)

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute

Unfortunately if you select the option to have the most recent posts at the top they are numbered from the top. So it is very difficult to identify which posts you refer to. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 17, 2023, 00:48:03
That would be why I stated specifically "in the case of the RMT"

For some reason you quoted my post about the ASLEF ballot to make that point so I was taking the opportunity to clarify that ASLEF haven’t made that demand as of yet. 

For the record, I agree that it’s a ridiculous demand from the RMT, though I haven’t heard it made recently, and the article you quoted at https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute is from February and concerned the now settled dispute with Network Rail. IIRC the settlement was not unconditional.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on June 19, 2023, 12:09:19
ASLEF announces an overtime ban will take place the first week of July 3-8
https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1670746046706663424


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 19, 2023, 12:24:36
Second week of Wimbledon....


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: BBM on June 19, 2023, 16:09:20
Second week of Wimbledon....

First week actually, it looks like it's later this year (but the strikes will still be a pain for spectators):

https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/atoz/schedule.html (https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/atoz/schedule.html)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 19, 2023, 17:57:01
There is no strike action announced yet.  This is a week of withdrawal of non-contractual overtime.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 19, 2023, 18:00:25
Indeed, no one would walk out for that length of time earning that sort of money


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 22, 2023, 16:02:21
BBC News - Rail union announces three days of strikes in July
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65986714


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on June 22, 2023, 16:14:01
Thursday & 2 Saturdays

20, 22 & 29 July.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 26, 2023, 18:16:05
Could raise the stakes a bit if the rumours turn out to be true......

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-statement-on-the-future-of-ticket-offices/


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 26, 2023, 19:28:46
Some clarity of their intentions will be good to have.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 26, 2023, 19:40:25
Some clarity of their intentions will be good to have.

Article in The Guardian;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/26/closure-most-uk-railway-station-ticket-offices-start-weeks?CMP=share_btn_tw&s=09

Cites 1000 ticket offices but emphasises staff moving from behind a screen to other, customer service roles

And the FT

https://www.ft.com/content/5a5bfe22-224b-4a9a-8e8c-f77a41d24e93


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Bob_Blakey on June 27, 2023, 09:56:43
According to the Grauniad report the DfT/RDG say that closing 'about 1000' ticket offices will, amongst other things, save costs. How so? Presumably all the target offices are located within the existing railway station estate so getting rid of them won't save much, if anything, in building and/or rental costs. Maybe a slight reduction in overall power usage if the vacated spaces are not repurposed and somebody remembers to turn off the lights! As I understand it the bosses plan to move all the ticketing staff to 'roaming the station' passenger assistance roles on the same pay rates and with no compulsory redundancies so I fail to see where any HR savings will come from. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 27, 2023, 11:31:00
Cites 1000 ticket offices…

Which, I think, is ALL ticket offices country wide?  That would be a big mistake IMHO. 

How many should close IMHO?  Some? Yes.  Over half? Probably.  All of them? No!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 27, 2023, 14:53:16
Cites 1000 ticket offices…

Which, I think, is ALL ticket offices country wide?  That would be a big mistake IMHO. 

How many should close IMHO?  Some? Yes.  Over half? Probably.  All of them? No!

Agreed.

Imagine the scene.....

"Tell you what Mick, strikes aren't getting you anywhere, even the Nurses have called it a day........we've said 1000 but we'll call it 750, bung you an extra 0.5% this year, you can bask in reflected glory and march everyone back to work......deal?"


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on June 27, 2023, 17:42:27
Cites 1000 ticket offices…

Which, I think, is ALL ticket offices country wide?  That would be a big mistake IMHO. 

How many should close IMHO?  Some? Yes.  Over half? Probably.  All of them? No!

Yes - from a year ago in The Yorkshire Post (https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/secret-plan-to-close-every-railway-ticket-office-in-england-to-save-ps500m-373707)

Quote
All 980 railway station ticket offices in England could close with physical train tickets axed under plans to save up to £500m. The Sunday Times has reported that the rail industry has drawn up a confidential strategy to close or "repurpose" all ticket offices in England, starting the closure programme in September

and someone asked what the saving would be

Quote
'Secret plan' to close every railway ticket office in England to save £500m


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 27, 2023, 18:34:23
Imagine the scene.....

"Tell you what Mick, strikes aren't getting you anywhere, even the Nurses have called it a day........we've said 1000 but we'll call it 750, bung you an extra 0.5% this year, you can bask in reflected glory and march everyone back to work......deal?"

We’ll have to get you a job at ACAS.  ;)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 02, 2023, 09:14:55
Still nothing on the GWR website giving details of services during this week's ASOS by ASLEF beyond advice that "short notice alterations and cancellations can be expected".............is this likely to be as specific as the advice will get or will revised journey planners be published (as the website suggests, but we're getting rather close to allow people to change their plans?



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on July 02, 2023, 09:41:08
Still nothing on the GWR website giving details of services during this week's ASOS by ASLEF beyond advice that "short notice alterations and cancellations can be expected".............is this likely to be as specific as the advice will get or will revised journey planners be published (as the website suggests, but we're getting rather close to allow people to change their plans?

I am taking the precaution of NOT promoting the 08:45 Swindon to Weymouth and 19:40 Weymouth to Swindon through services to the general public next Saturday - a mental risk assessment suggests it would be unwise to do so.

It IS being promoted as the West Wiltshire Rail User Group summer outing; apart from Melksham, there are alternative services from and to the other West Wilts stations, and I have emergency mitigation options in place to get a handful of Melksham people home without having to wait for GWR to find alternative transport.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on July 02, 2023, 14:24:25
Still nothing on the GWR website giving details of services during this week's ASOS by ASLEF beyond advice that "short notice alterations and cancellations can be expected".............is this likely to be as specific as the advice will get or will revised journey planners be published (as the website suggests, but we're getting rather close to allow people to change their plans?

BBC says at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66059122

Quote
Among the disruption expected:

South Western Railway says it will run a reduced timetable with some first and last trains cancelled. Its services are likely to be busier than usual, and customers heading to the Wimbledon tennis championships are being advised to allow extra time for their journeys

Northern is advising passengers to expect some services to start later and finish earlier than usual, as well as short-notice cancellations

Great Western Railway expects some short-notice alterations or cancellations, and says its Night Riviera Sleeper service will not run in either direction until Sunday

Chiltern Railways is warning customers only to travel if absolutely essential on Saturday. Its trains will not stop at the station by Wembley Stadium, which is hosting a concert by Blur.

It specifically says short notice and on that basis they seem to be saying that GWR are not giving customers timeous notice.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on July 02, 2023, 14:56:40
Still nothing on the GWR website giving details of services during this week's ASOS by ASLEF beyond advice that "short notice alterations and cancellations can be expected".............is this likely to be as specific as the advice will get or will revised journey planners be published (as the website suggests, but we're getting rather close to allow people to change their plans?

BBC says at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66059122

Quote
Among the disruption expected:

South Western Railway says it will run a reduced timetable with some first and last trains cancelled. Its services are likely to be busier than usual, and customers heading to the Wimbledon tennis championships are being advised to allow extra time for their journeys

Northern is advising passengers to expect some services to start later and finish earlier than usual, as well as short-notice cancellations

Great Western Railway expects some short-notice alterations or cancellations, and says its Night Riviera Sleeper service will not run in either direction until Sunday

Chiltern Railways is warning customers only to travel if absolutely essential on Saturday. Its trains will not stop at the station by Wembley Stadium, which is hosting a concert by Blur.

It specifically says short notice and on that basis they seem to be saying that GWR are not giving customers timeous notice.

Very difficult for GWR to give any timely notice as this will vary daily, ie any uncovered jobs will vary every day as will your spare cover.

You can’t roster a Paddington driver to cover a Bristol turn but on the day, you can use that Paddington based driver to partially cover a Bristol turn. Basically you could provide a list of cancellations now, but come the day, it’ll all change.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 02, 2023, 16:19:20
Still nothing on the GWR website giving details of services during this week's ASOS by ASLEF beyond advice that "short notice alterations and cancellations can be expected".............is this likely to be as specific as the advice will get or will revised journey planners be published (as the website suggests, but we're getting rather close to allow people to change their plans?

BBC says at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66059122

Quote
Among the disruption expected:

South Western Railway says it will run a reduced timetable with some first and last trains cancelled. Its services are likely to be busier than usual, and customers heading to the Wimbledon tennis championships are being advised to allow extra time for their journeys

Northern is advising passengers to expect some services to start later and finish earlier than usual, as well as short-notice cancellations

Great Western Railway expects some short-notice alterations or cancellations, and says its Night Riviera Sleeper service will not run in either direction until Sunday

Chiltern Railways is warning customers only to travel if absolutely essential on Saturday. Its trains will not stop at the station by Wembley Stadium, which is hosting a concert by Blur.

It specifically says short notice and on that basis they seem to be saying that GWR are not giving customers timeous notice.

Very difficult for GWR to give any timely notice as this will vary daily, ie any uncovered jobs will vary every day as will your spare cover.

You can’t roster a Paddington driver to cover a Bristol turn but on the day, you can use that Paddington based driver to partially cover a Bristol turn. Basically you could provide a list of cancellations now, but come the day, it’ll all change.

Many thanks that's useful background information.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on July 03, 2023, 06:50:31
From GWR Journeycheck:

Quote
Cancellations to services on all routes

Due to industrial action fewer trains are able to run on all lines.

Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 08/07/23.

Customer Advice
There will be disruption from Monday 3 to Saturday 8 July due to industrial action short of a strike by the Aslef union. This action short of strike is likely to cause some short-notice alterations or cancellations. Please check your journey before setting out.

During action short of a strike and the days after strikes, services could also be affected by a limited number of short-notice cancellations and alterations. The Night Riviera Sleeper service will not run in either direction from Sunday 2 July until Friday 7 July, resuming on Sunday 9 July.

Online journey planners are being updated.

If you intend to travel where trains are running, please check before you travel. Trains that are operating will be busier than usual because we will not be able to offer the normal service frequency. Other train operators are also affected by this action, so onward travel could also be affected.

Where we are able to run services, they are expected to be extremely busy and we are not able to provide bus replacement services.

Customers who purchased tickets but did not travel can claim a full refund, or can amend their ticket; those who travelled and are delayed may be entitled to Delay Repay compensation if they are delayed by 15 minutes or more.

To help customers, tickets for strike days will be valid for travel on alternative days on GWR services, further details will to be provided soon.

Season-ticket holders can apply for compensation through the Delay Repay scheme.

Our Refund policy remains in place. If you hold a return ticket, you can claim a refund of your unused full fare, even if only one leg of your journey is affected.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on July 03, 2023, 07:12:47
I can only see one cancellation so far as a result of “industrial action” and that’s the:

0540 Bristol TM to Penzance.

GWR really aren’t heavily reliant on overtime.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on July 03, 2023, 07:33:24
I can only see one cancellation so far as a result of “industrial action” and that’s the:

0540 Bristol TM to Penzance.

GWR really aren’t heavily reliant on overtime.

Take a look at the TransWilts thread - over 10% cancellations due to industrial action.  Of course, 10% of an already thin service is just a couple of trains,  And of course any cancellation leaves a long gap. Another story over the weekend of what this can mean to someone who struggles in the first place, and who's story I have permission to share:
Quote
That damage is going to take months, if not a year, to repair. I now have to build myself back up all over again, and it's because someone in an office somewhere decided "Yeah, cancel the Westbury service. Don't bother putting anything else on for the people stranded by that decision."


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 03, 2023, 08:19:13
GWR really aren’t heavily reliant on overtime.

I would expect it to get worse as the week goes on.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Wizard on July 03, 2023, 08:29:31
Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on July 03, 2023, 08:36:28
Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’.

Obviously the picture is changing as the day progresses.

Some will be cancelled, some amended and some will be reinstated.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 03, 2023, 08:36:44
Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’.

7 of the cancellations and a similar number of the part cancellations are Portsmouth/Cardiff if my maths are correct - long distance London to the Westcountry/Wales not looking too bad.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on July 03, 2023, 09:36:56
7 of the cancellations and a similar number of the part cancellations are Portsmouth/Cardiff if my maths are correct - long distance London to the Westcountry/Wales not looking too bad.

And that may relate to just 1 or 2 depots that are short staffed


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on July 03, 2023, 10:52:49
Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’.
As at 10.50, 38 cancellations related to Industrial action.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on July 03, 2023, 11:12:05
Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’.
As at 10.50, 38 cancellations related to Industrial action.

Looking at the bigger picture, GWR isn’t fairing too badly compared against some of the other operators today. With more drivers currently in training I can only see todays cancellations reducing over the next 6 months.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 03, 2023, 11:54:35
Another week of an ASLEF non-contractual overtime ban now announced from 17th-22nd July inclusive.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 03, 2023, 12:22:26
Another week of an ASLEF non-contractual overtime ban now announced from 17th-22nd July inclusive.

Coinciding with RMT strike days on 20th & 22nd.

The latter of which will be very affected I suspect.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 03, 2023, 20:41:39
This has appeared on twitter from a driver's account

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0H23QSWIAMV-yA?format=jpg&name=large)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on July 03, 2023, 22:00:01
The sad fact of that offer is that if they stopped at this:

The proposal comprises a two-year pay offer which provides for a 4% increase in year one (including retrospective pay) and a further increase of 4% in year two

This would have been settled a long time ago.  The changes to the terms and conditions aren’t, in my opinion, going to make any significant cost savings.
Significant cost savings can only be achieved by altering the structure of the franchising system, and that will never happen because that would be accepting privatisation has failed.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: MVR S&T on July 03, 2023, 22:10:32
I and most I talk to have lost the trust of the trains to get them to their destinations, let alone get them back, commuting has changed for ever too, wake up industry and unions, please.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 04, 2023, 18:06:22
Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’.
As at 10.50, 38 cancellations related to Industrial action.

Looking at the bigger picture, GWR isn’t fairing too badly compared against some of the other operators today. With more drivers currently in training I can only see todays cancellations reducing over the next 6 months.

I got the 1129 from Reading-Plymouth today, despite all the warnings given due to the ASLEF action it was on time and normally loaded.......notwithstanding the problems  caused by the points issues near Bristol today, the effect of the industrial action on longer distance services seems to be pretty minimal so far and mainly restricted to branch/smaller lines?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: NickB on July 05, 2023, 14:05:38
1hr 40mins to get from paddington to Maidenhead last night.

Arrived at paddington 17.10
17.20 cancelled at last minute
Waited for 17.50
Platform for 17.50 dangerously overcrowded
17.50 turns engine and lights off. No announcement made about intention to run.
Transfer to Elizabeth Line to catch 18.00
18.00 runs slightly late, arriving at Maidenhead 18.50

I can’t wait to go back tomorrow.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 05, 2023, 17:51:51
1hr 40mins to get from paddington to Maidenhead last night.

Arrived at paddington 17.10
17.20 cancelled at last minute
Waited for 17.50
Platform for 17.50 dangerously overcrowded
17.50 turns engine and lights off. No announcement made about intention to run.
Transfer to Elizabeth Line to catch 18.00
18.00 runs slightly late, arriving at Maidenhead 18.50

I can’t wait to go back tomorrow.

Better off sticking to the Elizabeth Line. Unaffected by the Industrial action.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: NickB on July 05, 2023, 20:30:26
I think that’s a good plan.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 06, 2023, 18:12:07
Bruvver Mick's getting the Underground in on the act now.......

https://news.sky.com/story/rmt-announces-strikes-on-london-underground-later-this-month-12916339


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 17, 2023, 15:56:36
.....more tilting at windmills announced....

https://news.sky.com/story/fresh-overtime-ban-at-height-of-summer-holidays-announced-by-train-drivers-in-aslef-union-12922273


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 17, 2023, 17:04:07
Might be slightly more effective what with the holiday season upon us - there may be more drivers off that need cover


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 17, 2023, 17:52:41
Might be slightly more effective what with the holiday season upon us - there may be more drivers off that need cover

Effective in creating inconvenience for the public, totally ineffective in securing any more for their members.

......and probably more than slightly more effective in making people choose the car rather than the train.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: trainbuff on July 18, 2023, 20:19:05
The sad fact of that offer is that if they stopped at this:

The proposal comprises a two-year pay offer which provides for a 4% increase in year one (including retrospective pay) and a further increase of 4% in year two

This would have been settled a long time ago.  The changes to the terms and conditions aren’t, in my opinion, going to make any significant cost savings.
Significant cost savings can only be achieved by altering the structure of the franchising system, and that will never happen because that would be accepting privatisation has failed.

The same with RMT too. Its the conditions being ripped up that matter


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on July 18, 2023, 20:37:13
What I find annoying is the double standards being employed by the TOCs (or should I say, the DfT, or should I say the Tory Government).

The TSSA Union voted to accept the pay deal on the condition that the changes to T&Cs would be negotiated in 'Year 2' as suggested by the TOCs. However, because of the collective bargaining agreement, this has not been honoured for non-management grades because the RMT rejected the same deal.

Now, despite the fact that the Unions have rejected the changes to T&Cs, the TOCs are still pressing ahead with them.

So, you can't have your pay rise that you accepted because some of your colleagues rejected it, but we are still pressing ahead with changes to the T&Cs even though you rejected it!

Double standards, or what?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on July 28, 2023, 15:03:48
《Was misinformed.》


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 29, 2023, 08:39:41
Bruvver Lynch currently on the BBC - refusing to give a figure for what represents an acceptable pay rise and also that the Government are not telling the truth re: Ticket office staff moving from behind the glass to platforms/concourses.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on July 29, 2023, 09:05:35
Bruvver Lynch currently on the BBC - refusing to give a figure for what represents an acceptable pay rise and also that the Government are not telling the truth re: Ticket office staff moving from behind the glass to platforms/concourses.

Is it just me ... or are we getting further from a solution to industrial action on the railways rather than working towards a solution?

Who is thinking for and standing up for those of us who want to travel?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 29, 2023, 09:14:27
Bruvver Lynch currently on the BBC - refusing to give a figure for what represents an acceptable pay rise and also that the Government are not telling the truth re: Ticket office staff moving from behind the glass to platforms/concourses.

Is it just me ... or are we getting further from a solution to industrial action on the railways rather than working towards a solution?

Who is thinking for and standing up for those of us who want to travel?

Couldn't agree more.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 29, 2023, 10:33:06
It appears that we haven't yet recorded that ASLEF has announced a further week of overtime/rest day working ban from 7 to 12 August.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: PhilWakely on July 29, 2023, 10:40:13
Bruvver Lynch currently on the BBC - refusing to give a figure for what represents an acceptable pay rise and also that the Government are not telling the truth re: Ticket office staff moving from behind the glass to platforms/concourses.

Is it just me ... or are we getting further from a solution to industrial action on the railways rather than working towards a solution?

Who is thinking for and standing up for those of us who want to travel?

I think the main problems here are that the TOCs don't really care as they receive the same 'management fee' from the Government regardless of the number of services being run and the Government is hell bent on destroying the Unions. So, it is unlikely that a compromise solution will be reached in the near future. The disputes are more than just ticket offices and pay.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 30, 2023, 15:27:36
Happy to be corrected, but I can't recall Mr Mayor being similarly "extremely concerned" over the numerous other events to which people have struggled to get to as a result of the RMT/ASLEF Industrial action?

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/mayor-of-london-extremely-concerned-over-brighton-pride-train-disruptions/


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 30, 2023, 15:33:03
So, it is unlikely that a compromise solution will be reached in the near future. The disputes are more than just ticket offices and pay.

Indeed.  Don't think there's any talks currently taking place at the moment, despite both unions being open to them AIUI.

I said before that I think both unions have to 'go big' if they want to try and force a resolution, but with that strategy comes the risk of the action breaking down.  Don't think the Government will have any problems riding the wave at the current level of action, and may use it to justify forcing the operators to make further cuts in the future...on board catering is the next obvious one...along with fleet sizes and number of trains run.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 30, 2023, 15:56:02
So, it is unlikely that a compromise solution will be reached in the near future. The disputes are more than just ticket offices and pay.

Indeed.  Don't think there's any talks currently taking place at the moment, despite both unions being open to them AIUI.

I said before that I think both unions have to 'go big' if they want to try and force a resolution, but with that strategy comes the risk of the action breaking down.  Don't think the Government will have any problems riding the wave at the current level of action, and may use it to justify forcing the operators to make further cuts in the future...on board catering is the next obvious one...along with fleet sizes and number of trains run.

I suspect the consultation will lead to a lower number of ticket offices being closed - probably around the number the Government/Industry intended in the first place, but presentation will be everything.

You're right about the current level of action and the Unions are on the back foot - as it stands causing inconvenience at worst and can easily be rode out by the Government - virtually indefinitely - after all it's over a year already.

I would like to think that, from somewhere, a few more quid will be found to add to the pay rise on offer (although Bruvver Mick is now saying that the strike isn't about pay), and combined with the lower number of closures and some level of future assurances about cuts this will be enough for him to save face and call it off - similarly ASLEF

I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 30, 2023, 16:12:24
I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry.

An all out strike?  No, me neither. 

Though I think they need to escalate to force one last slightly better deal, and each doing every other Saturday indefinitely (or 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday), so that every Saturday is affected, would be one way of doing that along with an indefinite overtime/RDW withdrawal.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 30, 2023, 16:39:35
I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry.

An all out strike?  No, me neither. 

Though I think they need to escalate to force one last slightly better deal, and each doing every other Saturday indefinitely (or 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday), so that every Saturday is affected, would be one way of doing that along with an indefinite overtime/RDW withdrawal.

That's an idea but it provides very little additional leverage - apart from upsetting leisure travellers who are the future of the railway.

One of the reasons (possibly the main reason) why the action to date, despite its longevity, has been so weak in terms of influencing the Government is the negligible effect it's had on the economy/business - focussing action on the weekends is unlikely to change that?

Personally I'd lock both sides in the room with nothing more than an occasional visit from a GWR catering trolley for sustenance ("sorry, no sandwiches, they didn't get loaded") - if that doesn't produce results, I don't know what would!!!  :D


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on July 30, 2023, 17:28:35
I suspect the consultation will lead to a lower number of ticket offices being closed - probably around the number the Government/Industry intended in the first place, but presentation will be everything.

There are 9 quoted in the consultation as selling over 200,000 tickets a year from the ticket office, and a further 8 selling between 100,000 and 200,000. A further 5 are only a cruel fraction below 100,000.  Saving around a quarter of ticket offices - which that is - would probably account for between 80% and 90% of the tickets sold, and people of all views could claim a degree of victory.

Yes - this might be what was intended to be the outcome in the first place


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on July 30, 2023, 18:34:55
I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry.

An all out strike?  No, me neither. 
Though I think they need to escalate to force one last slightly better deal, and each doing every other Saturday indefinitely (or 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday), so that every Saturday is affected, would be one way of doing that along with an indefinite overtime/RDW withdrawal.

That's an idea but it provides very little additional leverage - apart from upsetting leisure travellers who are the future of the railway.

One of the reasons (possibly the main reason) why the action to date, despite its longevity, has been so weak in terms of influencing the Government is the negligible effect it's had on the economy/business - focussing action on the weekends is unlikely to change that?

The football season starts next week (Including the FA Charity Shield at Wembley), and the Premier League the following week. II's idea would upset a lot of fans each week....it may have legs to produce a change of heart by say, when the clocks go back. Gridlock on the roads each weekend as all the fans take to the roads....


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on July 31, 2023, 02:04:36
(https://i.ibb.co/fQX6CMS/Screenshot-2023-07-31-02-02-00-224-com-guardian.jpg)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on July 31, 2023, 05:38:50
Many a true word written in jest, I'm afraid.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 03, 2023, 16:59:27
My perception of the latest overtime ban by ASLEF is that as far as GWR at least is concerned, whilst it's causing a few dozen cancellations/alterations each day the overall effect is pretty minimal?

I've just returned from a few days in Cheltenham (about 20 mins late into Reading today from Cheltenham Spa), but looking at the departure boards at Reading on my return things seemed pretty much normal.

I get that the effect may be greater elsewhere in the country, but with this (relatively speaking) minor level of disruption, do the Unions really expect the Government/RDG to change their position, without (as others have suggested) a pretty major escalation in the level of action?

All the Unions seem to be achieving at the moment is their members losing money, and a few more customers drifting away from the railway.

There is the famous saying about the definition of madness being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..............I wonder if the Unions should bear that in mind?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 03, 2023, 17:14:27
There is the famous saying about the definition of madness being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..............I wonder if the Unions should bear that in mind?

Didn't ASLEF bear it in mind when they altered their approach from sporadic days of strike action to block weeks of 'action short of a strike' a couple of months ago?  Not enough to change the governments own strategy IMHO but a definite change of tactic.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 03, 2023, 18:01:24
There is the famous saying about the definition of madness being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..............I wonder if the Unions should bear that in mind?

Didn't ASLEF bear it in mind when they altered their approach from sporadic days of strike action to block weeks of 'action short of a strike' a couple of months ago?  Not enough to change the governments own strategy IMHO but a definite change of tactic.

...............from one ineffective tactic to another it would seem.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 04, 2023, 05:36:04
My perception of the latest overtime ban by ASLEF is that as far as GWR at least is concerned, whilst it's causing a few dozen cancellations/alterations each day the overall effect is pretty minimal?

90 or so today.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 04, 2023, 07:39:48
My perception of the latest overtime ban by ASLEF is that as far as GWR at least is concerned, whilst it's causing a few dozen cancellations/alterations each day the overall effect is pretty minimal?

90 or so today.

GWR proclaiming a good service however!  ::)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on August 04, 2023, 07:47:35
My perception of the latest overtime ban by ASLEF is that as far as GWR at least is concerned, whilst it's causing a few dozen cancellations/alterations each day the overall effect is pretty minimal?
If you are using the Cancellations and Other Train Service Updates listed on Journeycheck to judge how effective the overtime ban has been on bringing disruption, then yes it doesn’t look too bad.

However passenger experience on the trains this week, at certain times and on certain routes, would show that the overtime ban has been effective, particularly on local routes. A colleague has had real challenges getting into work this week with services cancelled every day this week during the morning rush hour.

Some SW semifasts have also been cancelled this week putting extra strain on the already very busy WoE line.

Today looks particularly grim, despite as you say GWR proclaiming a good service. Not if the train you are planning to travel on is cancelled it isn’t.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on August 04, 2023, 08:25:12
Today looks particularly grim, despite as you say GWR proclaiming a good service. Not if the train you are planning to travel on is cancelled it isn’t.

I was planning to take the 09:10 today at the start of a series of "Staycation" days out. Next train in that direction - 11:31 and I wouldn't get to my planned destination until three hours after my plan.

As I drove to Trowbridge the other evening, I listened to an interview with a marketing Guru who had set up his own agency, and he was explaining why he did not accept tobacco companies, even if they pleaded. "I would not promote a product I would not encourage my children to use" he said.  And the approach is right.  I find it increasingly difficult to persuade people to use / try the train.

I was in Bradford-on-Avon yesterday, with a none-transport initiative.  I drove ... and while I waited ("come back in 2 hours" type appointment) I walked up to the canalside tea room and bumped into a Facebook friend. "Did you come by bus or train, or cycle".   No - I drove; family lifts involved and I was not going to put the family through the sparse services with none-connecting services along the way.  B-o-A was a gridlock, and I only found a parking space in the third car park tried (and then it was the last space!) - so it's not as if we're still running on sparse Covid travel.

And why was I listening to the radio in my car one the way to Trowbridge?  I could have caught be bus down, and would have waited for the 20:12 train back after the meeting finished at 19:15.    But waiting to 21:22 - over 2 hours after the end of the meeting - was not on, and the 20:12 train had been cancelled because GWR once again had no staff.

GWR may talk of a good service.  It may be good for their shareholders, and for perhaps for passengers on frequent services, but it's awful to the extent of being useless even to the railway's greatest fans where the potential passengers plan their days and have to rely on a specific train.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Mark A on August 04, 2023, 08:38:53
+1 to all that and sorry its disrupted your plans.

Also, I was thinking about the difference between a glance at the Coffeeshop's disruption map (looks this morning like artwork from a disturbed's child's therapy session) and the 'Signalbox' web site map of services (fairly orderly but with several orange/red symbols making their way patiently to their destinations).

The difference being that 'Signalbox' is showing only trains that are running and can't represent cancellations (or part cancellations for that matter) so is only showing part of the story.

If it's pulling GPS data, that'll be beyond its powers. A real time location map combined with deployment of a little pale grey 'Ghost train' symbol to mark a cancelled service would be one approach but this would become grossly inappropriate in the circumstances of a rail accident.

Mark


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 04, 2023, 11:06:28
Interesting, yet depressing, to hear the impact on real people this action is having. 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 04, 2023, 15:19:59
Interesting, yet depressing, to hear the impact on real people this action is having. 

True, and all with nothing being achieved.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on August 04, 2023, 15:40:45
True, and all with nothing being achieved.
You get the impression the government are prepared to sit this one out and let Starmer deal with it after the election.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 05, 2023, 08:25:25
Thankfully services between London and Cardiff don't seem to be too badly affected today - perhaps prioritised with Wales v England in Cardiff later today?

(equally thankfully I am going by road today - the post match queuing for trains in Cardiff is not something I'd want to experience again - especially in the current circumstances - and it's raining!!!)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on August 10, 2023, 11:57:39
Not sure this is the right place to post.
On journeycheck
06:00 London Paddington to Penzance due 11:40
06:00 London Paddington to Penzance due 11:40 will call additionally at Par.
This is due to a shortage of train crew
Sounds odd.  Can understand missing stops, but additional stops?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 10, 2023, 12:39:05
It’ll be to allow drivers to change over.  Normally it would be one driver working it through from Taunton to Penzance, but there’s a lot of ‘mixing and matching’ this week especially. 

No fewer than six drivers have been allocated parts of that one diagram today. A recipe for disaster!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on August 10, 2023, 14:09:25
It’ll be to allow drivers to change over.  Normally it would be one driver working it through from Taunton to Penzance, but there’s a lot of ‘mixing and matching’ this week especially. 

No fewer than six drivers have been allocated parts of that one diagram today. A recipe for disaster!

This is becoming the norm with diagramming these days. Back in the good old days, that service would have been worked by just two drivers with either a change at Exeter or Plymouth.  Nowadays, a driver changes can occur at Reading, Westbury, Taunton, Exeter, Newton Abbot, Plymouth or Par

A driver will hop off one train and work another 15 minutes later. Any slight delay and the problems are obvious. Barmy diagramming.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: plymothian on August 11, 2023, 15:43:21
RMT strikes announced as Saturdays 26 August and 2 September.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 11, 2023, 16:03:13
RMT strikes announced as Saturdays 26 August and 2 September.

Too tempting a target for Bruvver Mick to ignore wasn't it?

More bullets in the feet.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 11, 2023, 17:01:01
Barmy diagramming.

Yup!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Marlburian on August 11, 2023, 20:51:57
And it's Reading Rock Festival, though by the Saturday most revellers will have arrived. Dunno how many travel by train on that day?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on August 12, 2023, 06:50:55
RMT strikes announced as Saturdays 26 August and 2 September.
Cruise ship Ventura arrives back at Southampton on the 2nd September.

Just tried to see from RTT what services were running Southampton to Brighton on their last strike Saturday, but the site doesn't go back that far unfortunately.
Anyone 'just happen to remember' what/if any service ran then? :D


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on August 12, 2023, 08:27:40
RMT strikes announced as Saturdays 26 August and 2 September.
Cruise ship Ventura arrives back at Southampton on the 2nd September.

Just tried to see from RTT what services were running Southampton to Brighton on their last strike Saturday, but the site doesn't go back that far unfortunately.
Anyone 'just happen to remember' what/if any service ran then? :D

We returned into Southampton on a rail strike day ... Cross Country to Reading, Great Western to Bath, Faresaver to Melksham.   Think it was a train at about 08:10 from Southampton Services quiet.   We brought out own luggage off the ship (we usually do) to make it so early.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 12, 2023, 08:53:43
RMT strikes announced as Saturdays 26 August and 2 September.

My plans to attend Rosslyn Park v Plymouth Albion on 2 September down the swannee............but a minor inconvenience compared to many.

30th day of RMT strikes since June 2022

To quote the Admin of the RailUK forum;

"It's not going to make any difference to anything, except push people onto the roads and put them off rail".


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 18, 2023, 10:47:50
More ASLEF action announced.  One strike day and one overtime withdrawal day:

Friday 1st September: Strike Day
Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59.
This will also apply to any duties commencing on Friday 1st September that run into Saturday 2nd September.

Saturday 2nd September: Overtime Withdrawal
We will be withdrawing from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 until 23:59 on Saturday 2nd September.[/i]


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on August 18, 2023, 11:28:14
Just a reminder that RMT staff at Cross Country are taking industrial action over the next four Saturdays, two of which coincide with national industrial action.

https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/travel-updates-information/changes-to-train-times/industrial-action

No services south west of Birmingham to Bristol, Plymouth and Cardiff. I very much suggest that GWR services in the south west will be extra busy as a result of no Cross Country services operating.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on August 18, 2023, 12:40:50
No services south west of Birmingham to Bristol, Plymouth and Cardiff. I very much suggest that GWR services in the south west will be extra busy as a result of no Cross Country services operating.

Note that this is confirmed for *this* Saturday. For the other Saturday of only-Crosscountry (9th), nothing yet confirmed.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 19, 2023, 10:12:49
Looking at today's disruption map it's easy to see why the ASLEF action is having such little effect - there's no industrial action today but it looks pretty much the same with dozens of full/part cancellations and delays so no-one will notice the difference!!!

Business as usual!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on August 19, 2023, 14:39:11
Looking at today's disruption map it's easy to see why the ASLEF action is having such little effect - there's no industrial action today but it looks pretty much the same with dozens of full/part cancellations and delays so no-one will notice the difference!!!

Business as usual!
Couple the above with no Cross Country* services in the Southwest and you have potentially unpleasant journeys for many today.

*Cross Country have managed to operate a single service between Birmingham and Plymouth this afternoon.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 15, 2023, 10:44:03
Two more dates of ASLEF strike action, and further periods of a ban on non-contractual overtime have been announced:

Quote
Strike Dates
Saturday 30th September 2023
Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Saturday 30th September that run into Sunday 1st October.

Wednesday 4th October 2023
Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Wednesday 4th October that run into Thursday 5th October.

Overtime Withdrawal
Friday 29th September 2023
Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 until 23:59 on Friday 29th September.

Monday 2nd October to Friday 6th October 2023
Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 on Monday 2nd October until 23:59 on Friday 6th October


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on September 15, 2023, 11:13:14
Hmmm....the BBC seem to have the overtime ban dates wrong -

From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66817630)

Quote
Train drivers have announced two more strikes as part of a long-running dispute with rail companies over pay.

The Aslef union said its members at 16 train companies would walk out on 30 September and 4 October.

It added an overtime ban for drivers across the rail network would take place on Friday 19 September and for five days from 2 to 6 October.

The latest industrial action is expected to lead to cancelled and delayed services.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 15, 2023, 11:44:22
Yes, the 19th would fall rather short of the 14 day notice period.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 15, 2023, 15:33:43
ASLEF’s justification for the new action:

https://aslef.org.uk/publications/aslef-train-drivers-union-announces-industrial-action-and-asks-wheres-wally


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 15, 2023, 15:39:10
Two more dates of ASLEF strike action, and further periods of a ban on non-contractual overtime have been announced:

Quote
Strike Dates
Saturday 30th September 2023
Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Saturday 30th September that run into Sunday 1st October.

Wednesday 4th October 2023
Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Wednesday 4th October that run into Thursday 5th October.

Overtime Withdrawal
Friday 29th September 2023
Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 until 23:59 on Friday 29th September.

Monday 2nd October to Friday 6th October 2023
Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 on Monday 2nd October until 23:59 on Friday 6th October


Coincides with the Tory party conference - so they can't complain if Rishi uses his helicopter!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Phantom on September 19, 2023, 10:24:15
Two more dates of ASLEF strike action, and further periods of a ban on non-contractual overtime have been announced:

Quote
Strike Dates
Saturday 30th September 2023
Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Saturday 30th September that run into Sunday 1st October.

Wednesday 4th October 2023
Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Wednesday 4th October that run into Thursday 5th October.

Overtime Withdrawal
Friday 29th September 2023
Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 until 23:59 on Friday 29th September.

Monday 2nd October to Friday 6th October 2023
Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 on Monday 2nd October until 23:59 on Friday 6th October

Does anyone know what sort of impact the overtime ban will have (29/09)?
I am giving a presentation in London that day, I wonder whether I should be looking to reschedule?
(Travelling from WSM to Paddington)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 19, 2023, 12:17:06
The overtime ban days probably won’t have much of an effect outside of summer.  It does disrupt some behind-the-scenes training and cause a few additional cancellations, but not at a level that makes too much difference.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 20, 2023, 15:50:35
This time last year I listed the current driver numbers at GWR with the main intention to see the split between HSS grade drivers and GWR grade drivers.  The former can withdraw from their rostered Sundays, with 5 days notice, the latter have 'commited' Sundays they are obliged to work if they don't want to work, but no cover can be found.

The implication being the more GWR drivers, the less of an issue Sunday coverage should become, especially over the summer.

Just to give an idea of driver numbers at each depot:

Bristol - HSS 66   GWR 118
Bristol Parkway - HSS 41  GWR 6
Cardiff - GWR 15
Exeter - HSS 43   GWR 150
Fratton - GWR 34
Gloucester - GWR 60
Oxford - GWR 83
Paddington - HSS 78   GWR 73   
Par - GWR 33
Penzance - HSS 30   GWR 47
Plymouth - HSS 55   GWR 30
Reading - GWR 220
Swansea - HSS 65   GWR 5
Westbury - GWR 65
Worcester - HSS 25   GWR 14

Totals:  HSS 403    GWR 953    TOTAL 1356

So, 30% HSS and 70% GWR - a little more biased towards GWR than I was expecting, but they can have a disproportionate affect on the longer distance routes that seem to struggle the most on Sundays.  You can't cover much of a Paddington<>Penzance service with crews from the GWR exclusive deports of Oxford, Reading, Fratton or Gloucester for example.

So, there's last years totals, and here are this years:

Bristol - HSS 60  GWR 127
Bristol Parkway - HSS 41  GWR 20
Cardiff - GWR 18
Exeter - HSS 41  GWR 160
Fratton - GWR 31
Gloucester - GWR 66
Oxford - GWR 86
Paddington - HSS 74  GWR 85   
Par - GWR 34
Penzance - HSS 29   GWR 56
Plymouth - HSS 54   GWR 57
Reading - GWR 237
Swansea - HSS 64   GWR 5
Westbury - GWR 67
Worcester - HSS 23   GWR 15

Totals:  HSS 386    GWR 1064    TOTAL 1450

So, that's now a 27% HSS and 73% GWR split (from 30/70 last year), but also 94 more qualified drivers in total.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Phantom on September 21, 2023, 11:21:56
Excuse my ignorance, what does HSS stand for?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 21, 2023, 11:40:36
High Speed Services.  In this context it’s the drivers who used to be based at First Great Western drivers’ depots.  As of about five years ago, a restructuring deal meant all new drivers would be classed as GWR regardless of depot, so the HSS drivers (who have certain extra conditions, such as the Sunday working one, ‘ring fenced’) are slowly dying out.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 23, 2023, 06:58:45
This time last year I listed the current driver numbers at GWR with the main intention to see the split between HSS grade drivers and GWR grade drivers.  The former can withdraw from their rostered Sundays, with 5 days notice, the latter have 'commited' Sundays they are obliged to work if they don't want to work, but no cover can be found.

The implication being the more GWR drivers, the less of an issue Sunday coverage should become, especially over the summer.

Just to give an idea of driver numbers at each depot:

Bristol - HSS 66   GWR 118
Bristol Parkway - HSS 41  GWR 6
Cardiff - GWR 15
Exeter - HSS 43   GWR 150
Fratton - GWR 34
Gloucester - GWR 60
Oxford - GWR 83
Paddington - HSS 78   GWR 73   
Par - GWR 33
Penzance - HSS 30   GWR 47
Plymouth - HSS 55   GWR 30
Reading - GWR 220
Swansea - HSS 65   GWR 5
Westbury - GWR 65
Worcester - HSS 25   GWR 14

Totals:  HSS 403    GWR 953    TOTAL 1356

So, 30% HSS and 70% GWR - a little more biased towards GWR than I was expecting, but they can have a disproportionate affect on the longer distance routes that seem to struggle the most on Sundays.  You can't cover much of a Paddington<>Penzance service with crews from the GWR exclusive deports of Oxford, Reading, Fratton or Gloucester for example.

So, there's last years totals, and here are this years:

Bristol - HSS 60  GWR 127
Bristol Parkway - HSS 41  GWR 20
Cardiff - GWR 18
Exeter - HSS 41  GWR 160
Fratton - GWR 31
Gloucester - GWR 66
Oxford - GWR 86
Paddington - HSS 74  GWR 85   
Par - GWR 34
Penzance - HSS 29   GWR 56
Plymouth - HSS 54   GWR 57
Reading - GWR 237
Swansea - HSS 64   GWR 5
Westbury - GWR 67
Worcester - HSS 23   GWR 15

Totals:  HSS 386    GWR 1064    TOTAL 1450

So, that's now a 27% HSS and 73% GWR split (from 30/70 last year), but also 94 more qualified drivers in total.

Looking at the number of cancellations and short runnings listed today (and today is not untypical), attributed to "shortage of train crew", you could be forgiven for thinking that there's a lot less drivers around, not almost 100 more than last year.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ellendune on September 23, 2023, 08:37:32
Looking at the number of cancellations and short runnings listed today (and today is not untypical), attributed to "shortage of train crew", you could be forgiven for thinking that there's a lot less drivers around, not almost 100 more than last year.

A few points:

1) Train Crew includes drivers, but other staff as well.
2) From my own experience at work I know there is a lot of Covid around at the moment with quite a few people off sick. Working on crowded trains may increase this for train crew.
3) It is holiday season for those who do not need to take holidays out of school term time.
4) Given the prolonged disputes and government cuts, there may well be a lot less good-will so less people willing to do voluntary overtime.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on September 23, 2023, 09:07:51
Looking at the number of cancellations and short runnings listed today (and today is not untypical), attributed to "shortage of train crew", you could be forgiven for thinking that there's a lot less drivers around, not almost 100 more than last year.

A few points:

1) Train Crew includes drivers, but other staff as well.
2) From my own experience at work I know there is a lot of Covid around at the moment with quite a few people off sick. Working on crowded trains may increase this for train crew.
3) It is holiday season for those who do not need to take holidays out of school term time.
4) Given the prolonged disputes and government cuts, there may well be a lot less good-will so less people willing to do voluntary overtime.



5) There are a lot more trains around in the wider Bristol area (not carriages - 5 and 4 cars running around now as 2+3 and 2+2) and each needs crewing.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on October 04, 2023, 14:46:56
ASLEF picket line outside Oxford station. I took a look at their 'Show your support' signing sheet. Four signatures by 2pm. They've been there since 8 30am. I don't think they're winning over the public. Nice banner though.

(https://i.ibb.co/KLjVgxt/IMG-20231004-122722022-HDR.jpg)



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: nickswift99 on October 04, 2023, 18:30:24
ASLEF picket line outside Oxford station. I took a look at their 'Show your support' signing sheet. Four signatures by 2pm. They've been there since 8 30am. I don't think they're winning over the public. Nice banner though.

(https://i.ibb.co/KLjVgxt/IMG-20231004-122722022-HDR.jpg)



I'd be surprised if many (any?) travellers would sign the sheet given that they probably wouldn't have gone to the station today to catch a non-existent train. If ASLEF want to get written support, they'd be better doing it on days when the public were actually using the station.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on October 04, 2023, 18:48:24
There appeared to be two or three trains each way this morning to PAD fast, but nothing after that. God knows how they got home tonight


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 16, 2023, 18:35:29
The RMT have some odd allegiances amongst their senior leadership.

There's Dempsey's well documented affection for Putin,  and now the Union's President  is apparently aligning his members with Hamas terrorists too......

https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1713838531167088959?t=eIDkLgk0upnysp4nIhtJjQ&s=19


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on October 16, 2023, 21:09:24
The RMT have some odd allegiances amongst their senior leadership.

There's Dempsey's well documented affection for Putin,  and now the Union's President  is apparently aligning his members with Hamas terrorists too......

https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1713838531167088959?t=eIDkLgk0upnysp4nIhtJjQ&s=19

Supporting Palestine and the plight of Palestinians is very different from aligning with Hamas.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 19, 2023, 18:46:41
Another vote for some windmill tilting........

https://www.rmt.org.uk/about/ballot-results/?s=09


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on October 19, 2023, 21:26:25
Another vote for some windmill tilting........

As reported on the BBC ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67162708

Quote
Train passengers are facing another six months of potential strikes, after members of the RMT union voted for further industrial action.

The dispute with rail companies has been going on for nearly 18 months already, with workers calling for better job security, pay and conditions.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said the vote provided a "decisive mandate".

There was a 63.6% turnout, with 89.9% voting in favour.

"The government, who controls this dispute through a contractual mandate over the train operating companies, must now allow the Rail Delivery Group to put forward a revised offer so we can work towards reaching a settlement," Mr Lynch said.

"However, if no new offer is forthcoming, we will once again take strike action in defence of our members' livelihoods."

The Rail Delivery Group (RDG) said it was "acutely aware" of the impact that the ongoing industrial action was having on passengers, staff and businesses that use the service. It said it wanted to resolve the dispute.


So am I going to have change the subject line to add "2024" and if so what will that prospect do to the railways as a whole as a mass transit system for the future?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on October 19, 2023, 23:29:09
I was seemingly too optimistic when I changed the thread title to include 2023.

Yep. Looks like 2024 is almost a cert now. Action will most likely continue until the General Election.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: eXPassenger on October 20, 2023, 09:50:22
I was seemingly too optimistic when I changed the thread title to include 2023.

Yep. Looks like 2024 is almost a cert now. Action will most likely continue until the General Election.

Legally that could be January 2025!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on October 20, 2023, 10:09:20
I was seemingly too optimistic when I changed the thread title to include 2023.

Yep. Looks like 2024 is almost a cert now. Action will most likely continue until the General Election.

Legally that could be January 2025!

After yesterday's by-elections, could the Conservatives wish to hang on as long as possible?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on November 06, 2023, 20:54:00
Plan to run 40% of services during strikes by Christmas with new law.....
will be interesting how this works out....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67333310


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 06, 2023, 21:17:58
I was seemingly too optimistic when I changed the thread title to include 2023.

Yep. Looks like 2024 is almost a cert now. Action will most likely continue until the General Election.

Legally that could be January 2025!

Ballots for strikes only last 6 months, then they need another. Not sure how you reached January 2025?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 06, 2023, 21:57:14
Plan to run 40% of services during strikes by Christmas with new law.....
will be interesting how this works out....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67333310


Quote
Under the rules for train operators, the government said the equivalent of 40% of normal timetables should operate during strike action, allowing priority routes to stay open.


First and second class lines? People getting so used to travelling to a railhead that they do so all the time and, oh look, we can implement Serpell.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 07, 2023, 08:44:44
The "equivalent of" reads to me that major arteries will be kept running while rural/branch lines may get zero service.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 08, 2023, 16:43:15
From The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67355478)

Quote
RMT members are to vote on a pay deal that could end the union's ongoing wave of industrial action against train companies.

Operators have put forward an offer that proposes backdated pay rises for staff and job security guarantees.

RMT boss Mick Lynch said he supported the deal, calling it a "welcome development".

The transport department called it "a positive step towards resolving this dispute".

and from GWR

Quote
Dear Graham
 
We promised to keep you updated on the national dispute with the Rail Maritime Trade Union (RMT) - on board and station staff. The Rail Delivery Group and the RMT have just issued the statement below and we thought you would want to see it as soon as possible.
 
Following further negotiations between RDG and RMT, a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on the current dispute has been developed which sets out a process for a mutually agreed way forward, including a backdated 2022 pay rise for staff and job security guarantees. This will now be put to RMT members in each of the Train Operating Companies in a referendum vote. If accepted, this MOU will terminate the national dispute mandate, creating a pause and respite from industrial action over the Christmas period and into Spring next year, while allowing for these important negotiations on proposed reforms to take place at local train operating company level, through the established collective bargaining structures. These discussions would be aimed at addressing the companies' proposals on the changing needs and expectations of passengers as well as unlocking further increases for staff, in order to help to secure a sustainable, long-term future for the railway and all those who work on it.
 
This is a clear step forward and will be welcome news for customers and colleagues.  We will of course continue to keep you updated as things progress.
 
I should also note that this covers the RMT and not ASLEF (train drivers) and the RDG continues to work with them.
 
As ever if you have any questions do let me know.
 
Best wishes


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on November 08, 2023, 18:58:32
Now the station TOs have been kicked into the longer grass, there’s little that the DfT/Treasury can argue for & need to sort this prior to the election in the mistaken belief it may win them more votes


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 09, 2023, 06:48:45
Now the station TOs have been kicked into the longer grass, there’s little that the DfT/Treasury can argue for & need to sort this prior to the election in the mistaken belief it may win them more votes

I think it's a mistaken belief that there are many votes at stake in respect of this issue one way or the other.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 10, 2023, 06:54:27
From the Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12731975/Rail-workers-lost-wages-strikes-pay-deal-accepted-union-barons.html)

Quote
Thousands of striking rail workers have lost far more in wages than they will get from a pay deal accepted by union barons.

Train guards have on average lost £3,600 since the RMT union began striking last June, figures shared with the Mail show.

And on-board catering staff and station ticket sellers are out of pocket by £2,990.

In contrast, the lowest paid will get a lump sum of £1,750 as part of a deal accepted by RMT leaders this week in a bid to bring the union's 18-month strike campaign to an end.

The deal is subject to 20,000 train guards, catering staff and ticket sellers accepting it in a ballot. The union will not advise them to reject it, raising hopes it will be accepted.

And yet for ticket selling staff, HAVE they lost far more than they have gained?   Have they gained, with the help of thousands upon thousands of thousands of rail users, a continuation of their employment?   I know the statement that ticket office staff would continue to employed but for some the move away from a fixed location would have been unwelcome or impractical.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 10, 2023, 10:46:53
Now the station TOs have been kicked into the longer grass, there’s little that the DfT/Treasury can argue for & need to sort this prior to the election in the mistaken belief it may win them more votes

I think it's a mistaken belief that there are many votes at stake in respect of this issue one way or the other.

And yet for ticket selling staff, HAVE they lost far more than they have gained?   Have they gained, with the help of thousands upon thousands of thousands of rail users, a continuation of their employment?   I know the statement that ticket office staff would continue to employed but for some the move away from a fixed location would have been unwelcome or impractical.

However you look at it, it's clear that the surprising complete u-turn by the DfT on ticket office closures has released the main log jam in the dispute and that should be welcomed by all.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: old original on November 10, 2023, 11:13:14
With ticket office staff, I know that several staff had already applied for, been interviewed and offered other positions, mainly on board. If they wanted to return to their original posts would they be allowed to? If not or if they didn't want to, will management fill the vacancies?
Don't forget this proposal only kicks the can down the road.
This years pay award, of which talks start in February, will be subject to the same changes to conditions that have been talked about for the past 18 months but done locally i.e. by individual TOCs (allegedly(!))
I expect the subject closure of ticket offices WILL raise it's head again by the end of next year when the security of no job losses disappears.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 11, 2023, 08:51:21
With ticket office staff, I know that several staff had already applied for, been interviewed and offered other positions, mainly on board. If they wanted to return to their original posts would they be allowed to? If not or if they didn't want to, will management fill the vacancies?
Don't forget this proposal only kicks the can down the road.
This years pay award, of which talks start in February, will be subject to the same changes to conditions that have been talked about for the past 18 months but done locally i.e. by individual TOCs (allegedly(!))
I expect the subject closure of ticket offices WILL raise it's head again by the end of next year when the security of no job losses disappears.

As you say the can has been kicked down the road.

I suspect that ticket office closures will now happen on an individual, "creeping death" basis, retaining those which are more commercially viable whilst letting go those at the other end - especially where the space can be exploited more lucratively.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bradshaw on November 11, 2023, 09:04:27
I think the key is ticket reform, reducing the complexity of that system. Once that is done, and passengers are comfortable with it, the ticket office dilemma will be revisited. However, I feel this ticket office future needs to be done following negotiation.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 11, 2023, 11:19:31
I suspect that ticket office closures will now happen on an individual, "creeping death" basis, retaining those which are more commercially viable whilst letting go those at the other end - especially where the space can be exploited more lucratively.

I also think that will be the case.  But it’s a much better way of doing it than the ridiculously rushed and ill thought out ‘you must close them all’ directive.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: broadgage on November 13, 2023, 00:35:03
I think the key is ticket reform, reducing the complexity of that system. Once that is done, and passengers are comfortable with it, the ticket office dilemma will be revisited. However, I feel this ticket office future needs to be done following negotiation.


I have long suggested a very considerable simplification of rail fares, with only three different fares for each journey and preferably colour coded.
If such a scheme was adopted, then closing less used ticket offices would be reasonable.
the three fares to be known as peak, off peak and super bargain.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 13, 2023, 08:59:03
If you haven’t already, it might be worth producing a detailed set of proposals and sending that to all the relevant policy makers?

The franchise system collapse means there has never been a better time since privatisation for a wholesale reform.

If it comes to nothing, then at least you’ve tried - after all, there’s very little chance of it being picked up on here.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 16, 2023, 09:06:32
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67436365) - ASLEF Strike days

Quote
Train drivers are set to stage a fresh round of strikes in their long-running dispute over pay.
The Aslef union has announced a "rolling programme" of walkouts between 2 and 8 December, with different train companies affected on each day.
Drivers will also refuse to work any overtime from 1 to 9 December as part of the industrial action.

[snip]

Saturday 2 December at East Midlands Railway and LNER
Sunday 3 December at Avanti West Coast, Chiltern, Great Northern Thameslink, and West Midlands Trains
Tuesday 5 December at C2C and Greater Anglia
Wednesday 6 December at Southeastern, Southern/Gatwick Express, SWR main line, SWR depot drivers, and Island Line
Thursday 7 December at CrossCountry and GWR
Friday 8 December at Northern and TPT

Services are expected to be cancelled on strike days, causing disruption for passengers.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Phantom on November 16, 2023, 09:11:28
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67436365) - ASLEF Strike days

Quote
Train drivers are set to stage a fresh round of strikes in their long-running dispute over pay.
The Aslef union has announced a "rolling programme" of walkouts between 2 and 8 December, with different train companies affected on each day.
Drivers will also refuse to work any overtime from 1 to 9 December as part of the industrial action.

[snip]

Saturday 2 December at East Midlands Railway and LNER
Sunday 3 December at Avanti West Coast, Chiltern, Great Northern Thameslink, and West Midlands Trains
Tuesday 5 December at C2C and Greater Anglia
Wednesday 6 December at Southeastern, Southern/Gatwick Express, SWR main line, SWR depot drivers, and Island Line
Thursday 7 December at CrossCountry and GWR
Friday 8 December at Northern and TPT

Services are expected to be cancelled on strike days, causing disruption for passengers.

Oh dear, the day I am supposed to be doing a presentation in London


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 16, 2023, 10:21:52
Oh dear, the day I am supposed to be doing a presentation in London

On past form there will be limited daytime services ...  and historically there would have been "the Waterloos"


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Clan Line on November 16, 2023, 12:24:18
I don't suppose that we can expect them to go and spend their £59,189 (BBC fig) salaries on Christmas prezzies in their own time - can we ?  :-\ :-\


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 26, 2023, 09:28:43
I’m expecting widespread disruption on Sunday 3rd December with the non-contractual overtime ban.  Many HSS grade drivers are likely to make themselves unavailable as per their T&C’s and GWR grade drivers won’t be volunteering for additional shifts.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Bob_Blakey on November 27, 2023, 12:14:28
My original 7th December booking DIG > EXD >PAD has had to be binned - RTT has been updated to indicate no Exmouth branch services, only two trains to PAD and no HEx service either.

I will (hopefully) now take a bus, using a crinklies pass, from home to Exeter city centre - the Stagecoach H will drop me off at EXC - and then 1L56 from EXC (1430) to CLJ (1809), this being diverted via WSB to avoid the engineering closure, followed by 1N95 CLJ (1822) > FEL (1842), and then the 490 TfL bus to Heathrow T4 (overnight hotel prior to early Friday flight to Nice + train to Toulon for the European Champions Cup game on Saturday).

Fingers firmly crossed!


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 28, 2023, 19:20:21
I’m expecting widespread disruption on Sunday 3rd December with the non-contractual overtime ban.  Many HSS grade drivers are likely to make themselves unavailable as per their T&C’s and GWR grade drivers won’t be volunteering for additional shifts.

GWR backing up what you posted yesterday II:

Quote
Sunday 3 December – Action short of a strike

There will be significant disruption to services and customers are recommended to travel the day before or the following day. Where trains can run, they will be extremely busy.

Source: www.gwr.com/strike


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 29, 2023, 21:48:05
Looking at RTT for this coming Sunday 3rd of December, from what I can see, the only HSS services that will be operating to/from London is an hourly service Swindon to Paddington and an hourly service North Cotswolds line to Paddington.

There will also be an hourly HSS service between Bath and Bristol along with the usual local and inter regional services. These appear to be running as normal across the GWR network. However, what’s shown today on RTT and what actually runs on the 3rd may be two completely different things.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on November 30, 2023, 08:09:17
Looking at RTT for this coming Sunday 3rd of December, from what I can see, the only HSS services that will be operating to/from London is an hourly service Swindon to Paddington and an hourly service North Cotswolds line to Paddington.

There will also be an hourly HSS service between Bath and Bristol along with the usual local and inter regional services. These appear to be running as normal across the GWR network. However, what’s shown today on RTT and what actually runs on the 3rd may be two completely different things.

GWR have confirmed this on X (Twitter) this morning:
https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1730121328034738543


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on November 30, 2023, 09:01:04
Looking at RTT for this coming Sunday 3rd of December, from what I can see, the only HSS services that will be operating to/from London is an hourly service Swindon to Paddington and an hourly service North Cotswolds line to Paddington.

There will also be an hourly HSS service between Bath and Bristol along with the usual local and inter regional services. These appear to be running as normal across the GWR network. However, what’s shown today on RTT and what actually runs on the 3rd may be two completely different things.

GWR have confirmed this on X (Twitter) this morning:
https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1730121328034738543

From London to Bath and Bristol, take the hourly train to Swindon (timed for a 387, I notice) and change onto the Westbury train - the only service via Chippenham, changing again at Trowbridge.



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 30, 2023, 12:34:06
RMT members have voted to accept the deal:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67577683


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 01, 2023, 10:38:15
RMT members have voted to accept the deal:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67577683

Interesting that nobody thought this breakthrough worthy of comment.

Anyway, ASLEF members have (unsurprisingly) voted heavily in favour of renewing their action with 88% GWR members voting for strike action and 96% voting for action short of a strike.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on December 01, 2023, 11:36:00
RMT members have voted to accept the deal:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67577683

Interesting that nobody thought this breakthrough worthy of comment.

Anyway, ASLEF members have (unsurprisingly) voted heavily in favour of renewing their action with 88% GWR members voting for strike action and 96% voting for action short of a strike.

Ah ... now I did think of it as being worthy of comment, but refrained.  It "feels" delicate to make too much comment on industrial relations at times.   Realistically, one or two comments here are hardly likely to cause wide-spread upset.

It is good news that the RMT have voted to accept the deal that was on offer, though it's my understanding that it doesn't last very long and more negotiations will be needed next year.  But it really feels like one hurdle has been cleared only to leave another firmly - perhaps more firmly - in place with ASLEF.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on December 03, 2023, 07:04:03
Looking at RTT for this coming Sunday 3rd of December, from what I can see, the only HSS services that will be operating to/from London is an hourly service Swindon to Paddington and an hourly service North Cotswolds line to Paddington.

There will also be an hourly HSS service between Bath and Bristol along with the usual local and inter regional services. These appear to be running as normal across the GWR network. However, what’s shown today on RTT and what actually runs on the 3rd may be two completely different things.

Which has turned about to be the case. No Swindon to Paddington services and many North Cotswold line services either canned or running short on top of many local and inter regional cancellations/short running.

ASLEF have ended up with two strike days for the price of one. What a state our railways are in if they are able to bring the GWR network down without actually going on strike such is the reliance on overtime and the requirement not to work on a Sunday.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on December 03, 2023, 07:27:47
I see that SWR are not running services between Exeter and Waterloo today with services starting at Yeovil Junction instead.

Given the circumstances, I think that’s wise with no GWR London services. You would have people coming up from the South West trying to connect onto the Waterloo services which were already operating half the usual number of services owing to engineering work between Yeovil and Salisbury.

The potential for dangerous chaos at Exeter St David’s was there and has been wisely avoided IMHO.

Edit: The Exeter to Yeovil shuttle service isn’t running either.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on December 03, 2023, 09:09:02
Pnz to Bristol.
Bristol to Southampton.
Southampton to Waterloo.

Not sure of ticketing options!(that's where a person in an office would be useful).


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 03, 2023, 09:25:22
Pnz to Bristol.
Bristol to Southampton.
Southampton to Waterloo.

Not sure of ticketing options!(that's where a person in an office would be useful).

A38/M5/M4


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on December 03, 2023, 09:26:56
Pnz to Bristol.
Bristol to Southampton.
Southampton to Waterloo.

Not sure of ticketing options!(that's where a person in an office would be useful).
Bristol-Westbury or Salisbury to pick up a Yeovil/Salisbury-Waterloo service


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on December 03, 2023, 19:15:10
Just for the record, three trains in each direction DID operate between Swindon and London.

They were:
Swindon-Paddington 0845, 1245 and 1750
Paddington to Swindon 1012, 1412 and 1912


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 20, 2023, 10:00:09
ASLEF clearly not interested in ordering any strike action, or action short of a strike, over the Christmas and New year period.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on December 20, 2023, 10:19:18
ASLEF clearly not interested in ordering any strike action, or action short of a strike, over the Christmas and New year period.

Anything to do with the 24th and 31st being, what for many ASLEF members, will be lucrative Sunday turns?

It's notable that none of the strikes or overtime bans called by ASLEF have included Sundays. No doubt they'll argue that the differing contracts across TOCs, and even within TOCs, where Sundays may or may not be part of the working week, make including Sundays in any action impractical. I think though, it's more likely that members, for whom Sundays can be a nice earner, would be less likely to vote for action that would include a Sunday.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 20, 2023, 10:33:16
The last round of action included a Sunday.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 20, 2023, 12:17:14
Anything to do with the 24th and 31st being, what for many ASLEF members, will be lucrative Sunday turns?

If it is, and I don’t think it is, it still leaves the 22nd, 23rd, 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th, 1st and 2nd.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on December 21, 2023, 17:16:03
Too late now for any pf those dates.

A chance for drivers to pay for their Christmas expenditure by working normally.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 21, 2023, 19:24:32
Too late now for any pf those dates.

Yes, that was my point.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 15, 2024, 12:52:25
Next round of dates announced by ASLEF.  These will be the first that adhere to the Minimum Service Level legislation recently introduced:

Strikes & Non-compulsory overtime ban dates

Avanti West Coast
Strike day: Saturday 3 February 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6 February.
 
C2C
Strike day: Friday 2 February 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

Chiltern Railways
Strike day: Monday 5 February 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

CrossCountry
Strike day: Monday 5 February 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

East Midlands Railway
Strike day: Saturday 3 February 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

Great Western Railway
Strike day: Monday 5 February 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

Greater Anglia
Strike day: Friday 2 February 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

GTR Great Northern Thameslink
Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

Island Line
Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

LNER
Strike day: Friday 2 February 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

Northern Trains
Strike day: Wednesday 31 January 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

South Western Railway Depot Drivers
Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

South Western Railway Mainline
Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

Southeastern
Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

Southern/Gatwick Express
Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

Transpennine Trains
Strike day: Wednesday 31 January 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

West Midlands Trains
Strike day: Saturday 3 February 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until23:59 Tuesday 6 February.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 15, 2024, 12:55:45
Next round of dates announced by ASLEF. 

[snip]

Great Western Railway
Strike day: Monday 5 February 00:01 - 23:59.
No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February.

I fear I should add "2024" to the subject line.  Is "2025" being too pessimistic?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on January 15, 2024, 16:14:34
These will be the first that adhere to the Minimum Service Level legislation recently introduced

Early days but it appears some TOCs aren’t planning on using that MSL’s. Some are already stating there will be no service.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 19, 2024, 09:27:44
These will be the first that adhere to the Minimum Service Level legislation recently introduced

Early days but it appears some TOCs aren’t planning on using that MSL’s. Some are already stating there will be no service.

LNER *are* planning to use it - and as a result (as I'm reading it), ASLEF are stepping or considering stepping up their LNER strike. From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68017576)

Quote
LNER train drivers to strike for five more days


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on January 19, 2024, 12:50:50
These will be the first that adhere to the Minimum Service Level legislation recently introduced

Early days but it appears some TOCs aren’t planning on using that MSL’s. Some are already stating there will be no service.

LNER *are* planning to use it - and as a result (as I'm reading it), ASLEF are stepping or considering stepping up their LNER strike. From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68017576)

Quote
LNER train drivers to strike for five more days

Did LNER drop the ball here or was it deliberate?

The TOCs have to give the unions 7 days notice if they want to impose a minimum service level. The union needs to give 14 days notice of strike action.
You would have thought LNER would have waited until the last minute before informing ASLEF



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 22, 2024, 15:45:16
LNER *are* planning to use it - and as a result (as I'm reading it), ASLEF are stepping or considering stepping up their LNER strike. From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68017576)

Quote
LNER train drivers to strike for five more days

Update from the BBC - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68054064

Quote
Train drivers' union Aslef has called off five consecutive days of strikes on LNER services that were set to begin next month.

The action affecting LNER, which operates on the East Coast Mainline, was scheduled to start on 5 February.

However, walkouts by train drivers for many rail operators will still take place between 30 January and 5 February in a row over pay and conditions.

LNER drivers will join in one day of strikes during that period.

A source told the BBC that Aslef had called off the extra five days of action because LNER had told the union that it no longer intended to put minimum service levels (MSLs) in place.

LNER had planned to implement the measure on 2 February, during a period of widespread strike action that will affect 16 train operators.

Under new laws, employers can require staff who are planning to walkout to provide 40% of timetabled rail services.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 26, 2024, 17:26:24
Looking for a bit of advice on behalf of a friend who is looking to travel from Westbury to Paddington (and back!) on Monday - is the overtime ban likely to have much impact on GWR services in the morning/evening peak?

He's trying to decide whether to make the effort.

Appreciate that this may be a difficult one to call but any advice would be most welcome.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 26, 2024, 17:38:47
Looking for a bit of advice on behalf of a friend who is looking to travel from Westbury to Paddington (and back!) on Monday - is the overtime ban likely to have much impact on GWR services in the morning/evening peak?

He's trying to decide whether to make the effort.

Appreciate that this may be a difficult one to call but any advice would be most welcome.

Personal reply - I would go for it, but travel up a train or two earlier than I needed for my appointments of whatever I was doing, and then expect that I might be a train or two behind my ideal.  But then that is me / I am relatively robust.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 26, 2024, 18:01:27
Sounds like good advice to me, Graham.

But, Monday 5th is the actual strike day, not an overtime ban day.  This time of year an overtime ban is unlikely to have much effect, apart from on a Sunday when it will result in widespread disruption as before.  So avoid Sunday 4th Feb and then the actual strike day on GWR will also be badly disrupted.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 26, 2024, 19:41:10
Sounds like good advice to me, Graham.

But, Monday 5th is the actual strike day, not an overtime ban day.  This time of year an overtime ban is unlikely to have much effect, apart from on a Sunday when it will result in widespread disruption as before.  So avoid Sunday 4th Feb and then the actual strike day on GWR will also be badly disrupted.

Yours is good advice for Monday 5th - mine (I may have misread the question) was for next Monday, 29th January.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 26, 2024, 19:54:50
Yes, if it was Monday 29th your advice is perfect.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 26, 2024, 21:45:52
Yes, if it was Monday 29th your advice is perfect.

The question was in respect of the 29th but thanks both.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 29, 2024, 16:31:24
Advice from GWR:

Quote
Dear Graham
 
We wrote to you last week about ASLEF (train drivers union) industrial action starting today (Monday 29 January) until Tuesday 6 February, with a strike at GWR on Monday 5 February and action short of a strike for the other affected days.
 
This means that we are now only able to run a very limited high-speed service this Sunday 4 February, as we have fewer drivers available to work – especially on our long-distance services. As such, some parts of the GWR network will have no service at all, including all long distance trains out of London Paddington to Bristol, South Wales, and the South West. There will be no replacement bus services in lieu of these services in operation either.
 
Customers are advised to travel before the weekend or after Sunday. Where we can run services (and we expect to this include most of our local services), only a limited number of trains will run, they will be much busier than usual, and services will be subject to short notice alteration or cancellations.
 
Online journey planners should now be updated and accurate. Customers with tickets for travel from Tuesday 30 January to Monday 5 February can use these to travel from today (Monday 29 January) up to and including Wednesday 7 February.
 
Passengers aiming to travel from now until Tuesday 6 February should check before they travel using www.gwr.com/check. 
 
For full information please visit our dedicated strike page www.gwr.com/strike, which also includes information on refunds.
 
If you can share this amongst your networks, we would be greatly appreciative, and apologies for the disruption and the further difficult news. If there’s anything we can do to help, please don’t hesitate to get in touch.
 
Best wishes
 
Tom
 

Shared, as requested.




Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 29, 2024, 16:59:17
As for the long distance network, it's effected more on Sunday than on the actual strike day Monday. I hope the Cardiff rugby passes off well on Saturday night & everyone gets to where they want to be.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Timmer on January 29, 2024, 19:54:39
With SWR down as running a pretty normal Sunday service, journey planners are showing Cardiff-Bristol-Bath to London via Salisbury for Waterloo and South West to London changing onto SWR services at Exeter for Waterloo.

I wonder what, if anything SWR will do, particularly at Exeter to manage this? Am I right in saying they cannot running anything longer than x2 159s between Exeter and Salisbury?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on January 29, 2024, 20:38:52
With SWR down as running a pretty normal Sunday service, journey planners are showing Cardiff-Bristol-Bath to London via Salisbury for Waterloo and South West to London changing onto SWR services at Exeter for Waterloo.

I wonder what, if anything SWR will do, particularly at Exeter to manage this? Am I right in saying they cannot running anything longer than x2 159s between Exeter and Salisbury?

Walkup fares via Honiton and via Warminster should be cheaper too  :D ;D


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on January 30, 2024, 12:44:24
Simon Calder has tweeted -

Quote
with the newly announced strikes by members of the RMT union working for London Overground:
19-20 February
4-5 March


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: bobm on January 31, 2024, 10:15:37
(https://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/matt.jpg)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on February 05, 2024, 16:59:58
On a day of hardly any trains due to industial action into the third year, I bring you https://aslef.org.uk/news/they-sold-their-souls-mess-pottage from ASLEF's Mick Whelan

Quote
Mick Whelan's column: February 2024

Colleagues, we entered the new year announcing action across the train operating companies whose hands have been tied by the Tory government at Westminster. It is the bad faith shown by those companies in negotiations last year - and the determination of the Tories to turn this into a political dispute, rather than to allow individual TOCs to negotiate with us in the traditional way, using free collective bargaining - that caused us to have to take industrial action in furtherance of our pay and conditions protection. This should not have happened, ad does not need to happen, but has been forced upon us.

Let us not forget the other bad actors in the process: the companies themselves who sold their mercenary souls for a mess of pottage, happy to crap on their drivers, and other grades, to keep their snouts in the trough.

[continues]

I have some sympathy with that view that the companies have sold their souls, but I would differ with Mick in suggeston they are happy to crap on their drivers - some I see are desparately unhappy about it, realising the damage it does for the future.  And if they do what Mick describes as "taking their snouts out of the trough", what good would it do?  There are others who will step in to take their place. 

The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ...


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on February 05, 2024, 17:31:40
The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ...

And it is they who are deserting the railway to other methods of transport. Fewer passengers will mean a reduction in train services. Which will mean a reduction in the workforce. Mr Lynch is doing untold damage to the job security of his members.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on February 05, 2024, 20:54:03
The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ...

And it is they who are deserting the railway to other methods of transport. Fewer passengers will mean a reduction in train services. Which will mean a reduction in the workforce. Mr Lynch is doing untold damage to the job security of his members.

Indeed - and I have three examples in the last week

* One longstanding friend who has been carless is going out to buy one

* Another who's a daily commuter on shift work on our line into Swindon is taking driving lessons

* And the third who was planning to go by rail to Southampton and back has instead taken the bus even though he'll now have to go the day before to be there in time for his appointment.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 05, 2024, 22:19:26
And it is they who are deserting the railway to other methods of transport. Fewer passengers will mean a reduction in train services. Which will mean a reduction in the workforce. Mr Lynch is doing untold damage to the job security of his members.

Wrong Mick.  ;)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: JayMac on February 05, 2024, 23:18:30
As far as their worldview goes, Messrs Lynch and Whelan are fairly  interchangeable. :P


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on February 06, 2024, 00:52:33

The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ...

The words “passenger” and “customer” do not appear in the column because he is talking to “colleagues”.

The foremost concern of all colleagues is the wholly unacceptable decimation of our terms and conditions, something that the government is totally aware of. The government believe that the cost of operating the UK railway network, some £30bn, is a total waste of money.  Their hate of rail is clearly evident.  The likes of Mark Hopwood fully understand to increase revenue they need to increase services on existing routes and bring in new routes.  The government continually blocks this and firmly believes to balance the books requires cuts to services. This frustrates not only a lot of TOCs but also suppliers who are losing confidence in the rail industry and are turning their backs on it. The security isn’t there.  That sort of position leads to spiralling costs.
We need to shift from the current total anti-rail government to something that is more favourable and actually listens to the industry as a whole. The longer we stay as we are, the greater the damage being caused to the industry and the longer it will take to recover.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on February 06, 2024, 06:38:22

The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ...

The words “passenger” and “customer” do not appear in the column because he is talking to “colleagues”.

I can accept that - except that it has come to me for wider circulation:
Quote
They sold their souls for a mess of pottage ASLEF (Press Release)

The Government don't exactly come out of this showing much concern for "passengers" or "customers" either.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 06, 2024, 06:59:53

The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ...

The words “passenger” and “customer” do not appear in the column because he is talking to “colleagues”.

The foremost concern of all colleagues is the wholly unacceptable decimation of our terms and conditions, something that the government is totally aware of. The government believe that the cost of operating the UK railway network, some £30bn, is a total waste of money.  Their hate of rail is clearly evident.  The likes of Mark Hopwood fully understand to increase revenue they need to increase services on existing routes and bring in new routes.  The government continually blocks this and firmly believes to balance the books requires cuts to services. This frustrates not only a lot of TOCs but also suppliers who are losing confidence in the rail industry and are turning their backs on it. The security isn’t there.  That sort of position leads to spiralling costs.
We need to shift from the current total anti-rail government to something that is more favourable and actually listens to the industry as a whole. The longer we stay as we are, the greater the damage being caused to the industry and the longer it will take to recover.

..........and breathe....... :)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on February 06, 2024, 08:17:27
Don't talk about religion or politics!
Both have their pro's and con's, and never the twain shall meet.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on February 06, 2024, 17:29:11

The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ...

The words “passenger” and “customer” do not appear in the column because he is talking to “colleagues”.

The foremost concern of all colleagues is the wholly unacceptable decimation of our terms and conditions, something that the government is totally aware of. The government believe that the cost of operating the UK railway network, some £30bn, is a total waste of money.  Their hate of rail is clearly evident.  The likes of Mark Hopwood fully understand to increase revenue they need to increase services on existing routes and bring in new routes.  The government continually blocks this and firmly believes to balance the books requires cuts to services. This frustrates not only a lot of TOCs but also suppliers who are losing confidence in the rail industry and are turning their backs on it. The security isn’t there.  That sort of position leads to spiralling costs.
We need to shift from the current total anti-rail government to something that is more favourable and actually listens to the industry as a whole. The longer we stay as we are, the greater the damage being caused to the industry and the longer it will take to recover.

..........and breathe....... :)

I’ve waffled…. and gone off on one!  Man flu and sleep deprivation.  ;D


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 06, 2024, 19:24:38
I don’t think many of us have a problem with you showing a bit of passion about the subject.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 07, 2024, 07:16:35
I don’t think many of us have a problem with you showing a bit of passion about the subject.

Nothing wrong with a good vent now and again, especially if it helps blow the manflu away!  :)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on February 07, 2024, 20:52:58

The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ...

The words “passenger” and “customer” do not appear in the column because he is talking to “colleagues”.

The foremost concern of all colleagues is the wholly unacceptable decimation of our terms and conditions, something that the government is totally aware of. The government believe that the cost of operating the UK railway network, some £30bn, is a total waste of money.  Their hate of rail is clearly evident.  The likes of Mark Hopwood fully understand to increase revenue they need to increase services on existing routes and bring in new routes.  The government continually blocks this and firmly believes to balance the books requires cuts to services. This frustrates not only a lot of TOCs but also suppliers who are losing confidence in the rail industry and are turning their backs on it. The security isn’t there.  That sort of position leads to spiralling costs.
We need to shift from the current total anti-rail government to something that is more favourable and actually listens to the industry as a whole. The longer we stay as we are, the greater the damage being caused to the industry and the longer it will take to recover.

a-driver I would go a step further this Government is anti public services full stop


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 25, 2024, 07:12:44
I wonder if the membership were consulted on this decision?

BBC News - RMT leader Mick Lynch gives Jeremy Corbyn general election backing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68393822


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: GBM on February 25, 2024, 08:40:13
I wonder if the membership were consulted on this decision?

BBC News - RMT leader Mick Lynch gives Jeremy Corbyn general election backing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68393822
Not sure how that will go down with the 'rank and file' membership.
They will probably be more concerned with pay rises and less strike action.
I left the RMT for Unite (even tho' it was/is more expensive).
That was more of a local issue rather than a national level one.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on February 25, 2024, 11:24:15
I wonder if the membership were consulted on this decision?

BBC News - RMT leader Mick Lynch gives Jeremy Corbyn general election backing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68393822
Not sure how that will go down with the 'rank and file' membership.
They will probably be more concerned with pay rises and less strike action.
I left the RMT for Unite (even tho' it was/is more expensive).
That was more of a local issue rather than a national level one.

I doubt many of the members will be that bothered. The vast majority are only union members for job protection etc and aren’t particularly bothered by national politics. Indeed there are union members who openly voted Tory at the last election.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 25, 2024, 17:48:48
I wonder if the membership were consulted on this decision?

BBC News - RMT leader Mick Lynch gives Jeremy Corbyn general election backing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68393822
Not sure how that will go down with the 'rank and file' membership.
They will probably be more concerned with pay rises and less strike action.
I left the RMT for Unite (even tho' it was/is more expensive).
That was more of a local issue rather than a national level one.

I doubt many of the members will be that bothered. The vast majority are only union members for job protection etc and aren’t particularly bothered by national politics. Indeed there are union members who openly voted Tory at the last election.

I suspect like much of the wider population they voted Tory because of Corbyn (as Labour's post election research discovered!)

Bizarre that the RMT now decide to "openly" back him.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: ChrisB on February 25, 2024, 18:07:36
....to stand as an MP....


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 20, 2024, 12:31:37
Here we go again, another volley of  bullets in the foot.

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-03-20/train-drivers-at-16-rail-companies-to-stage-a-fresh-wave-of-strikes


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 20, 2024, 13:03:24
Nice to see Easter not being targeted. 

The action is just rumbling along at a very low level waiting for the Tories to either be replaced (hoping that Labour are prepared to talk and compromise) or decide the good PR of a settlement to all the disputes close to the election is a good strategy.

The union has no other cards to play.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on March 20, 2024, 14:29:42
Yet MP’s will be enjoying an inflation-busting 5.5% rise next month with no changes to their terms & conditions against what the IPSA call an ‘extremely difficult backdrop’

What’s good enough for one should, and would, be more than acceptable to all.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on March 20, 2024, 21:37:23
Nice to see Easter not being targeted. 

Although it is during the school Easter holidays


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 21, 2024, 05:48:29
Nice to see Easter not being targeted. 

Although it is during the school Easter holidays

Presumably more lucrative not to strike over the Easter weekend given premiums for working Bank Holidays/Easter Sunday?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: a-driver on March 21, 2024, 09:23:13
Nice to see Easter not being targeted. 

Although it is during the school Easter holidays

Presumably more lucrative not to strike over the Easter weekend given premiums for working Bank Holidays/Easter Sunday?

No premiums for working bank holidays, it’s normal rate. Sundays are time plus 0.25.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 21, 2024, 10:10:03
Yes, GWR drivers used to get an enhancement of 0.25 for bank holidays but that was removed several years ago as part of a pay deal.  So, Good Friday and Easter Monday are flat rate pay and Easter Sunday is just a ‘normal’ Sunday with a 0.25 enhancement.

Avanti are the same, but I guess some other TOC’s may still have some form of an enhancement, but even then I doubt it’s a particularly lucrative one.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 22, 2024, 16:27:01
Yes, GWR drivers used to get an enhancement of 0.25 for bank holidays but that was removed several years ago as part of a pay deal.  So, Good Friday and Easter Monday are flat rate pay and Easter Sunday is just a ‘normal’ Sunday with a 0.25 enhancement.

Avanti are the same, but I guess some other TOC’s may still have some form of an enhancement, but even then I doubt it’s a particularly lucrative one.

That does seem somewhat mean doesn't it?

Bit of an anomaly as the drivers salaries, pensions etc are comparatively generous - although as you imply if it was part of a bigger deal that was more advantageous overall it may explain it.

I take it that they at least get a day off in lieu for working a Bank Holiday?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: Electric train on March 22, 2024, 16:40:14
Yes, GWR drivers used to get an enhancement of 0.25 for bank holidays but that was removed several years ago as part of a pay deal.  So, Good Friday and Easter Monday are flat rate pay and Easter Sunday is just a ‘normal’ Sunday with a 0.25 enhancement.

Avanti are the same, but I guess some other TOC’s may still have some form of an enhancement, but even then I doubt it’s a particularly lucrative one.

I take it that they at least get a day off in lieu for working a Bank Holiday?

A railway contract I was under a few years ago, and I know is still in use, I got 6 days holiday to compensate for bank holidays being rostered as normal work days the only ones treated as bank holidays are Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day.  Saturdays and Sundays also rostered the only enhanced overtime payments was for working a rest day 0.25.

Railways staff are restricted in we must have 12 hours rest between shifts, and can only work 13 days out of 14 ie every 13 days we must have a day off.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 22, 2024, 17:10:48
I take it that they at least get a day off in lieu for working a Bank Holiday?

The GWR drivers (and GWR HSS grade ones as well) don’t get any days off in lieu.  IIRC bank holiday lieu days for drivers were removed going way back to the last century.  Even Christmas Day/Boxing Day come out of a drivers annual leave unless they happen to be off that day anyway.

Yes, it would all have been negotiated at the time as part of a pay rise, but does help demonstrate that a headline salary doesn’t always tell the full story as it doesn’t in many jobs in many industries.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 23, 2024, 07:34:48
I take it that they at least get a day off in lieu for working a Bank Holiday?

The GWR drivers (and GWR HSS grade ones as well) don’t get any days off in lieu.  IIRC bank holiday lieu days for drivers were removed going way back to the last century.  Even Christmas Day/Boxing Day come out of a drivers annual leave unless they happen to be off that day anyway.

Yes, it would all have been negotiated at the time as part of a pay rise, but does help demonstrate that a headline salary doesn’t always tell the full story as it doesn’t in many jobs in many industries.

Got it - GWRs website states 32 days annual leave "inclusive of Bank Holidays", which suggests they've been "rolled in", whereas for mere mortals such as myself annual leave is expressed as something along the lines of 25 days + bank holidays.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on March 23, 2024, 08:21:19
Got it - GWRs website states 32 days annual leave "inclusive of Bank Holidays", which suggests they've been "rolled in", whereas for mere mortals such as myself annual leave is expressed as something along the lines of 25 days + bank holidays.

I'm not sure that it's "mere mortals" or a sensible way of doing it for a business / operation that's running 363/364 days a year. It's exactly what we did when running our hotel (and that was 365/366 days a year) and with the team we had it worked for everyone.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 23, 2024, 09:05:56
Yes indeed, Graham, and I get TG’s point too.  In terms of leave the railway is slowly moving in that direction, with a few sectors/businesses yet to consolidate it in that way.

Regardless, it doesn’t alter the original question, which is that that there is no enhanced pay for GWR drivers (and many others) working over Easter weekend.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 23, 2024, 09:18:13

Regardless, it doesn’t alter the original question, which is that that there is no enhanced pay for GWR drivers (and many others) working over Easter weekend.

Now that I understand the way the drivers annual leave is configured, I sort of get why they wouldn't get enhancement for working on Bank Holidays - sounds as if it was negotiated away, perhaps in return for a higher basic salary?

Certainly in my business we have numerous roles that cover 365 days but those working on Bank Holidays get x 1.5 or x 2 at Xmas, but our Annual Leave is quoted as days + bank holidays.................then again those roles don't get paid as much as train drivers!  ;)



Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 23, 2024, 09:32:06
Which all begs the question: Why did ASLEF choose the weekend after Easter? 

Is ‘public support’ still much of a consideration for a dispute that has gone on for so long?


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 23, 2024, 09:44:51
Which all begs the question: Why did ASLEF choose the weekend after Easter? 

Is ‘public support’ still much of a consideration for a dispute that has gone on for so long?

I don't think the public are too bothered either way now - as you say it's been going on for so long it's become part of the landscape - an irritant/inconvenience yes but not the paralysis it may once have caused - too many alternatives available and it's only an odd day here and there.

Doing it over the Easter holiday period/on a Saturday probably inconveniences more GWR leisure travellers, who are a much more significant part of the railway's business now, and they may well seek alternatives and stick with them going forward, but it'll hardly be felt by business travellers, and the overtime ban will probably just mean that more people work from home for a few extra days.

The Government certainly don't seem to be bothered but then again it's not an issue upon which too many votes depend.

 


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 23, 2024, 11:25:26
Yes, I think we’re kind of in agreement…though we’ll have to get you a Broadgage style bingo card.  ;)

It’s all about letting everyone know ASLEF are still in dispute occasionally, but until the Tories are ousted there will be no real likelihood of a settlement, and fair play to ASLEF for not ruining the big Easter getaway for the all important leisure market.


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 23, 2024, 11:51:02
Yes, I think we’re kind of in agreement…though we’ll have to get you a Broadgage style bingo card.  ;)




Ah no......whilst I actually did have a glass of Port last weekend, I quite like the IETs (when they turn up, and aren’t shortformed!)


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2024, 13:32:24
Here we go again......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68874928


Title: Re: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2024, 21:30:28
Here we go again......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68874928

Quote
Staff at 16 train companies will take part in rolling one-day walkouts between 7 and 9 May over pay and working conditions.
An overtime ban will also take place between 6 and 11 May.
Passengers are advised to check before they travel, with the action likely to lead to delays and cancellations.
The Bank Holiday falls on 6 May this year.
Aslef, the train drivers' union, said it is seeking better pay for its members and claimed drivers are being asked to sacrifice working conditions in exchange for a wage increase.
Drivers from several train companies will strike on different days.
Tuesday 7 May: c2c, Greater Anglia, Great Northern, Thameslink, Southeastern, Southern, Gatwick Express, South Western Railway main line and Island Line
Wednesday 8 May: Avanti West Coast, Chiltern Railways, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, Great Western Railway and West Midlands Trains
Thursday 9 May: LNER, Northern Trains and TransPennine Express

Also ...

Quote
Little progress has been made in solving the row between Aslef and the rail companies since the union first started striking in July 2022.

It has been going on do long it has almost ceased to be news.   Lisa and I arrive on a ferry into Portsmouth in the afternoon of 8th May.  We're just shrugging our shoulders and booking in to somewhere to stay overnight until the following morning.



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